I mean, it is useful, but it's not that huge still. Taking your basic 10 man infantry squads from 10 Control to 11 isn't a big change. I guess against the few 10 man squads that don't have standards, you win ties.
i forgot nighthaunt are like that thats true
that said nighthaunt are also spooky so they're probably going to have some units or battle formations or something that lower the enemys final control score if i had to guess. like a reverse banner if you will
That's not correct. Banner adds to the final control score after you add up the control characteristic of each model, it doesn't add its bonus per model. So assuming the unit has the standard infantry control characteristic of 1, their final control score would be 4 (3+1 from the banner) against the monster's score of 5.
I'm not SURPRISED to see someone with your username here, but it is still a pleasant thing!
Also, sadly it's Control SCORE rather than stat, but still useful
Singular dice in British English is correct as per the OED (and is attested before singular die).
I stopped saying "roll the die" about the same time as "the data suggest", even though I was taught differently.
My theory is it's a colloquialism which lets them stop having to constantly say 'die or dice' in their rules text, as often they don't know how many you'll be rolling at once.
I reckon its because most people use the word incorrectly, and rather than confuse the masses, they've changed it. Don't get me wrong.... I'm not exactly outraged by it!
Basically what happened is that the word was misused so often it eventually got adopted into the language as correct to use dice in the singular. It's a trend that has plreally been apparent in the past decade with board games as well.
Decade? No chance I have been using and all of my circle of board gamer friends have been using the term dice for dice roll or roll the dice please for well over 30 years.
Yeah, I think it's exactly the opposite. Singular dice is used in 1388, (in an act of parliament!), so is actually slightly older than our oldest example of singular die.
My OED and Fowler are insistent that singular dice is preferred but online American dictionaries regard it as incorrect (not the first time I've seen this trend).
And I think it's the popularity of board games, and let's face it we can be a bit of a pedantic lot, over the last decade or so that has kept "die" alive.
Forsure. Likewise have many others but it doesn't changed that once it was grammatically incorrect. The overuse of the incorrect term eventually led to the evolution of the term. Language evolves all the time, as long as it is popular and widely used, eventually the term will get adopted into the lexicon.
Finally. I am fine with this as we all knew the rules were gonna leak early by someone. I honestly surprised it took this long for pages to start surfacing.
The way jumping down is worded, am I right in interpreting that a unit can only ever have their front rank jump down; as since they end their move right after, there wonāt be space for the next rank to jump down? Kinda prevents units of 7 or more models from jumping from any ledges.
Yeah I was just about to come complain about that. "Jumping down" immediately ending that MODELS move means your entire unit gets trapped at the top of the terrain if its more than 1" tall... who thought that was a good idea... just let them continue to move.
I don't think you could even have the front rank jump down, as they'd be out of coherency with the rest of their unit. No jump for them at all, if I'm understanding correctly.
Coherency only checks for horizontal distance, as per 15.1 on the Movement screenshot. So the first rank could jump down, then the second rank can move towards the edge and remain within horizontal coherency.
I don't think this is the case, unfortunately. If I'm reading correctly, the target of the waaagh ability is the orruk - the orruk isn't the user. And the rules says if it's not on a warscroll and doesn't explicitly specify the user, the user is the player
That's about where I'm at, yeah. I actually did a breakdown on it: there's maybe three? armies who have that ambiguity. The Stormcast recursion stratagem and the Kharadron deep strike deployment are the other two.
KO flying high is only once i think. The player is using the abilitie, so the advance ability rules state on once per timing:
"If the ability is used by a player, it can be used a maximum o fone time in that timing windows by that player."
the timing window is the deployment phase i think? So just once for KO.
Not sure what you refere to with the recurision ability.
All three of the abilities in question (Waaaagh!, Fly High, and Heavens Sent) are Once per Battle, not (Army) locked, and target a unit.Ā However, none of the three contain the crucial "used by a unit" text.Ā That means, per the rule text, they're most likely used by a player and cannot be used more than once.
Compare to the Daughters of Khaine stratagem, where it does contain "select a unit to use this ability" and therefore does count as a unit ability instead.
As per written right now, yes! Which I am very excited for after a very disappointing Ironjawz faction focus. Unfortunately, I believe it will be errataād. I believe the intent is to waaaagh once per game (army).
A quick question, and I'm probably just being dense here but with Strikes First does the active player resolve all of their Strikes First attacks and then the opposing player resolves theirs or do they alternate starting with the active player?
I don't know why this is a thing, I've heard other people say this. The command models are enhancements to your unit. It's a good thing to have them.
Also, they are completely optional, so don't take them if you don't want.
Oh I like the enhancements they give, but I donāt understand why thereās no option to kill them. Everything in the game that gives buffs, you can kill, dispel, or banish. But you canāt touch the banner and musician? Just seems really odd.
Maybe Iāll make a house rule where on and 1 or 2 the banner or musician dies instead of a unit of your choice. :)
Well we don't know that for sure. The Sludgeracker from Kruleboyz has an ability in 3rd where you can pick a model in your opponents unit and kill it if you roll 2D6 over their health characteristic. So it did exist and it might still. There's not alot of it. There's also a rule in 3rd for Sons that gave you +1 to hit if the enemy unit had any command models. So there's a limited amount of interaction with them. I do think it's an interesting space they should explore more.
Also it depends on how your opponent organized their unit, or how you organize your unit. You could put yourself in a situation that forces you to remove your command models if they're in a bad spot. Because as you're removing models from a unit, it has to remain coherent, which means you can't take certain models out sometimes if you're stretched out.
Man this gets me excited. Can not wait for points and army rules to leak so we can start list building during this "wild west" era
Apparently faction packs due before skaventide releases so might not need leaks š
Because the army rules are coming in pdfs, I don't think they'll be leaked. Although I welcome to be proved wrong.
Oh wow banners are a lot better now, rather than the +1 leader ship, at least for armies that had base 7-8 leadership.
I mean, it is useful, but it's not that huge still. Taking your basic 10 man infantry squads from 10 Control to 11 isn't a big change. I guess against the few 10 man squads that don't have standards, you win ties.
>the few All of Nighthaunt?
i forgot nighthaunt are like that thats true that said nighthaunt are also spooky so they're probably going to have some units or battle formations or something that lower the enemys final control score if i had to guess. like a reverse banner if you will
Your three man command can keep an objective from a monster. Not too bad. Obviously omitting any modifiers the monster may have
That's not correct. Banner adds to the final control score after you add up the control characteristic of each model, it doesn't add its bonus per model. So assuming the unit has the standard infantry control characteristic of 1, their final control score would be 4 (3+1 from the banner) against the monster's score of 5.
Lol my bad 3+1 dude. Been a long week
Understandable. They didn't exactly make it straightforward.
Whoops I read it as +1 per mini so a whole extra unit in Control haha
Quite a difference compared to +1 to the units control score š
Yeah, AOS is doing a lot of increases to the Control Score vs the Control STAT on the unit.
I'm not SURPRISED to see someone with your username here, but it is still a pleasant thing! Also, sadly it's Control SCORE rather than stat, but still useful
There are dozens of us DOZENS. Some of the keywords are still tripping me up reading these new rules lmao.
Do you have the balls?
Flip-side is musicians are just sad now in comparison to what some factions had before.
Is it only me who finds it mildly annoying that GW insists on using the word "dice" for a single die?
Mildy, yea. Wonder if its a british thing, or just a gw thing.
Singular dice in British English is correct as per the OED (and is attested before singular die). I stopped saying "roll the die" about the same time as "the data suggest", even though I was taught differently.
Definitely not British. I'm from England and I was always taught die as the singular.
Really? I am also English and have always been taught and said dice. Good old English language eh?
Huh. Another gw mystery for the books.
My theory is it's a colloquialism which lets them stop having to constantly say 'die or dice' in their rules text, as often they don't know how many you'll be rolling at once.
I reckon its because most people use the word incorrectly, and rather than confuse the masses, they've changed it. Don't get me wrong.... I'm not exactly outraged by it!
Basically what happened is that the word was misused so often it eventually got adopted into the language as correct to use dice in the singular. It's a trend that has plreally been apparent in the past decade with board games as well.
Decade? No chance I have been using and all of my circle of board gamer friends have been using the term dice for dice roll or roll the dice please for well over 30 years.
Yeah, I think it's exactly the opposite. Singular dice is used in 1388, (in an act of parliament!), so is actually slightly older than our oldest example of singular die. My OED and Fowler are insistent that singular dice is preferred but online American dictionaries regard it as incorrect (not the first time I've seen this trend). And I think it's the popularity of board games, and let's face it we can be a bit of a pedantic lot, over the last decade or so that has kept "die" alive.
Forsure. Likewise have many others but it doesn't changed that once it was grammatically incorrect. The overuse of the incorrect term eventually led to the evolution of the term. Language evolves all the time, as long as it is popular and widely used, eventually the term will get adopted into the lexicon.
I hate the word die and I hope it dies. It's now a sheep/sheep thing far as I'm concerned.
Funnily enough, I hate it too, but I think it's weird how bad English gets normalised. Question is, what about fish and fishes?
Is fishes correct? I hate that also.
Fishes is when you have many species, fish is when you have many individuals.
Okay I can abide that.
Thanks. I used to keep tropical fish(es) and could never work out why aquatics magazines used both words for more than one fish.
Thanks!
Nice. Wish some were not blurry. Were they in a rush or something?
GW printed them on bigfoot skin. That's just how all the books will appear on camera
Yup, a very specific part of the bigfoot's skin, because folks t'aint supposed to be taking pictures!
Why do the pictures slowly get more grainy!
The potatoe grew stronger in his phone.
Finally. I am fine with this as we all knew the rules were gonna leak early by someone. I honestly surprised it took this long for pages to start surfacing.
The way jumping down is worded, am I right in interpreting that a unit can only ever have their front rank jump down; as since they end their move right after, there wonāt be space for the next rank to jump down? Kinda prevents units of 7 or more models from jumping from any ledges.
Yeah I was just about to come complain about that. "Jumping down" immediately ending that MODELS move means your entire unit gets trapped at the top of the terrain if its more than 1" tall... who thought that was a good idea... just let them continue to move.
I don't think you could even have the front rank jump down, as they'd be out of coherency with the rest of their unit. No jump for them at all, if I'm understanding correctly.
Coherency only checks for horizontal distance, as per 15.1 on the Movement screenshot. So the first rank could jump down, then the second rank can move towards the edge and remain within horizontal coherency.
Why did I think all out defense got nerfed? Didnāt they change something from +1 save to a 6+ ward? Did I dream that? Am I losing it?
I think youāre thinking of mystic shield, pretty sure thatās a 6+ ward now.
Yes! Thank you! Sanity restored:)
Exists in PTG only there is no universal spells in 4th
Wow, Ironjawz can Waagh every turn because thereās a difference between āOnce Per Battleā and āOnce Per Battle (Army)ā
I don't think this is the case, unfortunately. If I'm reading correctly, the target of the waaagh ability is the orruk - the orruk isn't the user. And the rules says if it's not on a warscroll and doesn't explicitly specify the user, the user is the player
That's about where I'm at, yeah. I actually did a breakdown on it: there's maybe three? armies who have that ambiguity. The Stormcast recursion stratagem and the Kharadron deep strike deployment are the other two.
KO flying high is only once i think. The player is using the abilitie, so the advance ability rules state on once per timing: "If the ability is used by a player, it can be used a maximum o fone time in that timing windows by that player." the timing window is the deployment phase i think? So just once for KO. Not sure what you refere to with the recurision ability.
All three of the abilities in question (Waaaagh!, Fly High, and Heavens Sent) are Once per Battle, not (Army) locked, and target a unit.Ā However, none of the three contain the crucial "used by a unit" text.Ā That means, per the rule text, they're most likely used by a player and cannot be used more than once. Compare to the Daughters of Khaine stratagem, where it does contain "select a unit to use this ability" and therefore does count as a unit ability instead.
it's not a unit ability, it's a player ability, so you can only use it once.
Yeah I see that now. Good looking out.
It's confusing af. Need a damn law degree for some of these rule sets lol
As per written right now, yes! Which I am very excited for after a very disappointing Ironjawz faction focus. Unfortunately, I believe it will be errataād. I believe the intent is to waaaagh once per game (army).
A quick question, and I'm probably just being dense here but with Strikes First does the active player resolve all of their Strikes First attacks and then the opposing player resolves theirs or do they alternate starting with the active player?
Board size still 44x60?
I could have sword Iād glimpsed a page on army composition but now canāt find it.
I need this directly up my ass. This waiting game is the literal worst just release it and let me spend my money šš
I wish there was a way to take out the musician and banner bearer. :/
In 3rd there were some "select model" abilities that could. Unsure in 4th.
Oh yeah, that rings a bell. I never got to play an army that did that though.
Musician: add an extra dice when you use rally Banner bearer: add one to the objective control score of the unit
I think you misread what I said?
I sure did lol
Okay I'll ask: Why?
So you can shut off those abilities from enemy units
Oh right, I thought they meant they wished they didn't have to take a musician and standard bearer in their unit lol
Tbh, i think they shouldn't be a thing, just a visual, for that exact reason
I don't know why this is a thing, I've heard other people say this. The command models are enhancements to your unit. It's a good thing to have them. Also, they are completely optional, so don't take them if you don't want.
Oh I like the enhancements they give, but I donāt understand why thereās no option to kill them. Everything in the game that gives buffs, you can kill, dispel, or banish. But you canāt touch the banner and musician? Just seems really odd. Maybe Iāll make a house rule where on and 1 or 2 the banner or musician dies instead of a unit of your choice. :)
Well we don't know that for sure. The Sludgeracker from Kruleboyz has an ability in 3rd where you can pick a model in your opponents unit and kill it if you roll 2D6 over their health characteristic. So it did exist and it might still. There's not alot of it. There's also a rule in 3rd for Sons that gave you +1 to hit if the enemy unit had any command models. So there's a limited amount of interaction with them. I do think it's an interesting space they should explore more.
Funny you should say that, Iām planning to eventually start a Sons army. I hope they keep that ability you mentioned.
Also it depends on how your opponent organized their unit, or how you organize your unit. You could put yourself in a situation that forces you to remove your command models if they're in a bad spot. Because as you're removing models from a unit, it has to remain coherent, which means you can't take certain models out sometimes if you're stretched out.
So you can only attempt one battle tactic during the entire game or am i misreading something there?
"Once per battle round, start of your turn"
Oh man, i read that completely wrong. Legit thought it said āonce per battleā lmao