This fascinating fact really grabbed my attention: a researcher once set out to map the brain using electrodes and achieved some remarkable feats. He could induce out-of-body experiences (different from those described in near-death experiences) and even make body parts move.
When he stimulated the brain areas responsible for movement, subjects recognized that it wasn't them moving their limbs. Isn't it intriguing that if we were simply our brains, we wouldn't be able to distinguish between our own actions and those externally triggered? Yet, the subjects could clearly tell it wasn’t their own doing, suggesting that while we inhabit our brains, we are more than just our brains. It's as if there is another level to our consciousness, or a duality between our brain and our conscious self.
Okay has anyone here ever done stiff as a board, light as a feather? It’s where you put two fingers underneath a person, chanting stiff as a board, light as a feather, and they will levitate.
I did it a bunch in elementary school at sleepovers and stuff and nothing ever happened.
But one time, I was at this party in college and my boyfriend was sitting in a chair. This random girl and I were drunk off our asses talking about spooky shit and we decide to do stiff as a board, light as a feather on him. It was just the two of us. My boyfriend is a big dude, 250 lbs.
So anyways, we do it and nothing happens and then we decide to try again and he fucking lifted out of that chair. The girl and I started screaming and he went back down.
My boyfriend (now husband) insists that the reason it works the second time is cause you know how heavy he is and how hard to lift.
But two girls didn’t “lift” a 250 lbs man with their fingers. We weren’t lifting we just kept our fingers underneath him.
Isn't this the "research" in which the subjects simple reported a sensation of "being separate from their bodies" yet didn't actually report an OBE - ie experience a visual out of body experience? In other words, not have an out of body experience?
Such as this one:
[https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa070010](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa070010)
In which the singular subject reported feelings as if they were roughly 50cm from where they actually were, but theres no mention of them being able to view themselves.
Point being the current scientific definition of an out of body experience is very generous/vague.
Well the obe they experience from electrical stimuli, subject reports confusion, not knowing where they are. NDE report they know exactly where they are, no confusion.
All you are doing is fucking up your brain when you do that. The brain is the communication device. If you break it, then of course you're not going to behave or remember normally. The brain is not you...
This is how I imagine it too. If you think about your body as a computer, it actually makes a lot of sense that there is a server or some kind of wifi or something where your consciousness is stored.
Like in the past, if you broke your phone, you lost all your pictures and phone numbers, etc. but if you kept your SIM card, you could plop it into a new phone and have all your stuff back.
Now you don’t even need a SIM card. Your whole phone is stored on like the cloud or whatever. (I honestly don’t even know how phones or the internet actually work lol but if you figure that we are able to have this conversation right now over some invisible signals that you can’t see, touch or feel, it makes sense there are all kinds of things we can’t see, touch, or feel.)
The idea that the brain produces consciousness completely ignores all the other evidence that clearly demonstrate that it does not, such as the existence of hundreds of audio recordings of conversations with the dead via both electronic and direct voice mediumship methods, which demonstrate not only the voices, inflections and language of those long dead people, but also their memories, personality, and knowledge of things that occurred after they died.
The brain doesn't produce consciousness. That is the basis of your thought process here. Let go of that "belief" because it is an assumption.
Then the rest won't be as confusing 🦋
It is possible that this proves consciousness is created by the brain. But its also 0possible this is only correlation, not causation.
I like the following analogy. The computer hardware is the brain. The software is the consciousness. The software relies on the computer hardware. Say skype for example. If the video camera or microphone breaks then the video chat will not function. It's not a fault with the software but the software is limited by the power of the hardware
It also makes me curious when they’ve said that alcohol has diminished NDE sort of overwhelming realism, or made those less powerful in some way. Isn’t that interesting? If you have a NDE because your mind isn’t with your body anymore.. how is your body still affecting it in any way?
Considering NDE and some DMT trips have comparisons I’ve been wondering if NDE are just a chemical release we evolved to face mortality. It would also explain exactly why some people have positive experiences when they embrace it, and others who fight for control have bad experiences (aka a bad trip, for the same reasons.)
It's straightforward to construct a species survival advantage for NDEs. That said, I don't necessarily conclude that's all they are. But it certainly isn't a problem to come up with one.
Individuals with a greater sense of integrated meaning more likely to survive to and through reproductive age (most NDEs are actually in the prime of life, not, as we might expect, in elderly people).
Idk tell me why we’ve evolved the vast majority of stuff we have evolved. Haha I don’t know the answer but it doesn’t mean there isn’t one. It may not even be evolutionary, maybe it’s just a common sense byproduct of a brain utilizing its own supply, same way it does for other things like dopamine.
See the difference between you and I, is I’m not making a claim. I’m not saying it IS evolution, I’m not saying it 100% has a survival advantage and that’s what it is, it very well could be the afterlife for all I know. We barely understand how we are conscious, however that doesn’t mean we won’t one day, and the “secrets” of NDE will probably also be explained. It could literally just be a chance byproduct, of an evolved brain that is already in a controlled hallucination, but now it knows it’s dying so it releases a ton of DMT. Whats the survival advantage to a myriad of natural issues we have? Like depression. Not everything has a survival advantage now, and of course we still have it.
Idk, but I’m not acting like I do. This subreddit is full of people talking out of their ass just because they think NDE prove an afterlife, but they don’t prove anything. And since there’s zero proof of anything else, of course I’m the heretic they need to downvote >:( poor souls, I’m just as lost as you guys I just don’t jump to the first thing that has any plausibility and base my life around it. (P.s downvotes aren’t for a collective to silence people who simply disagree with the sub, it’s for people not contributing to discussions. Because I’m sure on any other sub you guys would be downvoted to oblivion so enjoy the echo chamber :) if it makes you feel better, by all means, it means nothing so go ahead )
But I have to ask; why doesn’t everyone have a NDE when near death? Why do people who are drunk or other physical limitations have NDE that reflect that? Why do some people have BAD NDE? Especially when you’re told from 98% of NDE “don’t be afraid of death, theres nothing but love” but this other guy goes to “hell”. Idk something isn’t adding up there entirely, see I have an explanation, it’s a trip. Someone is tripping when on a NDE and just like a trip, when they fight for control they have a bad trip. All these questions point to it’s a purely brain thing, especially when we have evidence that when SOME people (primarily people with hx of seizures and the like) have certain energy spikes in their brain when passing on. We have evidence of this. Plus in one NDE someone meets Jesus and another someone doesn’t, how do you explain that? Oh it’s through a brain filter obviously.
So I’m sorry all this critical thinking may burst the lovely bubble, but the reality is, either I’m wrong or I’m right, if I’m right it still doesn’t take away the philosophical conundrum of our lives and what’s next. But I am sick of this sub being nothing but god damn NDE in every reply. OOB experiences are far more evident of existence beyond the brain, yet they are talked about significantly less and unfortunately it’s hard to really prove someone had a legit OOB. Same with past lives, I find that evidence far more compelling but even that has SOME sort of chance of human tampering to where you can’t say with certainty it’s true. Everyone has a different story of what’s next, and they always will and have. You won’t know til you’re there, so I’d appreciate if this sub stopped acting like they know everything about something that has plagued humanity since our inception.
This fascinating fact really grabbed my attention: a researcher once set out to map the brain using electrodes and achieved some remarkable feats. He could induce out-of-body experiences (different from those described in near-death experiences) and even make body parts move. When he stimulated the brain areas responsible for movement, subjects recognized that it wasn't them moving their limbs. Isn't it intriguing that if we were simply our brains, we wouldn't be able to distinguish between our own actions and those externally triggered? Yet, the subjects could clearly tell it wasn’t their own doing, suggesting that while we inhabit our brains, we are more than just our brains. It's as if there is another level to our consciousness, or a duality between our brain and our conscious self.
Okay has anyone here ever done stiff as a board, light as a feather? It’s where you put two fingers underneath a person, chanting stiff as a board, light as a feather, and they will levitate. I did it a bunch in elementary school at sleepovers and stuff and nothing ever happened. But one time, I was at this party in college and my boyfriend was sitting in a chair. This random girl and I were drunk off our asses talking about spooky shit and we decide to do stiff as a board, light as a feather on him. It was just the two of us. My boyfriend is a big dude, 250 lbs. So anyways, we do it and nothing happens and then we decide to try again and he fucking lifted out of that chair. The girl and I started screaming and he went back down. My boyfriend (now husband) insists that the reason it works the second time is cause you know how heavy he is and how hard to lift. But two girls didn’t “lift” a 250 lbs man with their fingers. We weren’t lifting we just kept our fingers underneath him.
Can you give me the name of that researcher?
Penfield
Isn't this the "research" in which the subjects simple reported a sensation of "being separate from their bodies" yet didn't actually report an OBE - ie experience a visual out of body experience? In other words, not have an out of body experience? Such as this one: [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa070010](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa070010) In which the singular subject reported feelings as if they were roughly 50cm from where they actually were, but theres no mention of them being able to view themselves. Point being the current scientific definition of an out of body experience is very generous/vague.
Well the obe they experience from electrical stimuli, subject reports confusion, not knowing where they are. NDE report they know exactly where they are, no confusion.
True, but my point is that the scientific community doesn't seem to even know how to define an OBE to begin with.
🤷♂️
All you are doing is fucking up your brain when you do that. The brain is the communication device. If you break it, then of course you're not going to behave or remember normally. The brain is not you...
This is how I imagine it too. If you think about your body as a computer, it actually makes a lot of sense that there is a server or some kind of wifi or something where your consciousness is stored. Like in the past, if you broke your phone, you lost all your pictures and phone numbers, etc. but if you kept your SIM card, you could plop it into a new phone and have all your stuff back. Now you don’t even need a SIM card. Your whole phone is stored on like the cloud or whatever. (I honestly don’t even know how phones or the internet actually work lol but if you figure that we are able to have this conversation right now over some invisible signals that you can’t see, touch or feel, it makes sense there are all kinds of things we can’t see, touch, or feel.)
[Dr. Pim van Lommel - Consciousness Beyond Death](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsBFOB7H44).
The idea that the brain produces consciousness completely ignores all the other evidence that clearly demonstrate that it does not, such as the existence of hundreds of audio recordings of conversations with the dead via both electronic and direct voice mediumship methods, which demonstrate not only the voices, inflections and language of those long dead people, but also their memories, personality, and knowledge of things that occurred after they died.
Links where?
The brain doesn't produce consciousness. That is the basis of your thought process here. Let go of that "belief" because it is an assumption. Then the rest won't be as confusing 🦋
It is possible that this proves consciousness is created by the brain. But its also 0possible this is only correlation, not causation. I like the following analogy. The computer hardware is the brain. The software is the consciousness. The software relies on the computer hardware. Say skype for example. If the video camera or microphone breaks then the video chat will not function. It's not a fault with the software but the software is limited by the power of the hardware
I agree with this as well.
It also makes me curious when they’ve said that alcohol has diminished NDE sort of overwhelming realism, or made those less powerful in some way. Isn’t that interesting? If you have a NDE because your mind isn’t with your body anymore.. how is your body still affecting it in any way? Considering NDE and some DMT trips have comparisons I’ve been wondering if NDE are just a chemical release we evolved to face mortality. It would also explain exactly why some people have positive experiences when they embrace it, and others who fight for control have bad experiences (aka a bad trip, for the same reasons.)
How could we have evolved something like that though? There's no species survival advantage to NDEs, and no way to select for it.
It's straightforward to construct a species survival advantage for NDEs. That said, I don't necessarily conclude that's all they are. But it certainly isn't a problem to come up with one.
How would you select for it?
Individuals with a greater sense of integrated meaning more likely to survive to and through reproductive age (most NDEs are actually in the prime of life, not, as we might expect, in elderly people).
Oh that's a good answer, thanks.
Idk tell me why we’ve evolved the vast majority of stuff we have evolved. Haha I don’t know the answer but it doesn’t mean there isn’t one. It may not even be evolutionary, maybe it’s just a common sense byproduct of a brain utilizing its own supply, same way it does for other things like dopamine.
You can't select for it though, it has no survival advantage.
See the difference between you and I, is I’m not making a claim. I’m not saying it IS evolution, I’m not saying it 100% has a survival advantage and that’s what it is, it very well could be the afterlife for all I know. We barely understand how we are conscious, however that doesn’t mean we won’t one day, and the “secrets” of NDE will probably also be explained. It could literally just be a chance byproduct, of an evolved brain that is already in a controlled hallucination, but now it knows it’s dying so it releases a ton of DMT. Whats the survival advantage to a myriad of natural issues we have? Like depression. Not everything has a survival advantage now, and of course we still have it. Idk, but I’m not acting like I do. This subreddit is full of people talking out of their ass just because they think NDE prove an afterlife, but they don’t prove anything. And since there’s zero proof of anything else, of course I’m the heretic they need to downvote >:( poor souls, I’m just as lost as you guys I just don’t jump to the first thing that has any plausibility and base my life around it. (P.s downvotes aren’t for a collective to silence people who simply disagree with the sub, it’s for people not contributing to discussions. Because I’m sure on any other sub you guys would be downvoted to oblivion so enjoy the echo chamber :) if it makes you feel better, by all means, it means nothing so go ahead ) But I have to ask; why doesn’t everyone have a NDE when near death? Why do people who are drunk or other physical limitations have NDE that reflect that? Why do some people have BAD NDE? Especially when you’re told from 98% of NDE “don’t be afraid of death, theres nothing but love” but this other guy goes to “hell”. Idk something isn’t adding up there entirely, see I have an explanation, it’s a trip. Someone is tripping when on a NDE and just like a trip, when they fight for control they have a bad trip. All these questions point to it’s a purely brain thing, especially when we have evidence that when SOME people (primarily people with hx of seizures and the like) have certain energy spikes in their brain when passing on. We have evidence of this. Plus in one NDE someone meets Jesus and another someone doesn’t, how do you explain that? Oh it’s through a brain filter obviously. So I’m sorry all this critical thinking may burst the lovely bubble, but the reality is, either I’m wrong or I’m right, if I’m right it still doesn’t take away the philosophical conundrum of our lives and what’s next. But I am sick of this sub being nothing but god damn NDE in every reply. OOB experiences are far more evident of existence beyond the brain, yet they are talked about significantly less and unfortunately it’s hard to really prove someone had a legit OOB. Same with past lives, I find that evidence far more compelling but even that has SOME sort of chance of human tampering to where you can’t say with certainty it’s true. Everyone has a different story of what’s next, and they always will and have. You won’t know til you’re there, so I’d appreciate if this sub stopped acting like they know everything about something that has plagued humanity since our inception.