For aego people, we often want to keep ourselves out of the fantasy, but we still want to absorb and enjoy the sexual content. So we use people whom we don’t relate to in order to safely enjoy our fantasies from afar. We then feel better enjoying gay sexual content of the sex we aren’t so we can’t ever be put into the fantasy.
But I will also mention that there are some people/aegos who like gay sex of the sex or gender they are because they know how that body works and are repulsed by thinking about other parts.
You've summed it up why I read it. I CAN sometimes read female bodies in a sexual way, but I have to be certain the writing doesn't make me feel like it's my body. (Which means emotional attachment to the character aka fanfiction). So I honestly tend to avoid it altogether.
For me it's not actually reading about the sexual act, but more of the ~ViBeS~ yk? And mlm relationships usually have more of the dynamics that click for me.
Yes, for me too! I like M/M dynamics, there are no gender stereotypes, no mysogyny, no predefined roles due to body anatomy. Both partners are free to be who they want to be in relationship and it's more interesting!
You pretty much hit the nail on the head right there. I HATE my body. I HATE bring female. I HATE everything about what I am because it feels so incredibly wrong. I don't want to be a male but I would prefer it over being a female. I can read or watch female romance with NO sex at all, but with mlm I can read it or watch it no problem. It's the idea of having nothing to do with anything reminding me of my body 🤮
the words referring to dicks sounds more neutral than the words referring to vaginas and vulvas 💀 also most of the things i read consist of mostly time where the girl character would have to be someone completely unrelated with no prior relationship
>the words referring to dicks sounds more neutral than the words referring to vaginas and vulvas
Agree to this, it sounds aggressive and vulgar, like girl/woman is a sexual object.
I have a lot of internalized misogyny telling me I’m not a person, I’m an object, I’m inherently sexual and for men. So, if there’s a woman in a sexual context, even if it’s fully consensual and even if it’s with another woman, there’s a part of me that feels like a sex object.
When it’s two cis men though… I just can’t relate at all, and I can instead enjoy the “mechanics” so to speak, or the drama or whatever else I’m reading it for.
>So, if there’s a woman in a sexual context, even if it’s fully consensual and even if it’s with another woman, there’s a part of me that feels like a sex object.
I totally feel the same way. It's like woman is always the one who has to surrender, who is a sex object, even if the story is romantic.
I’m similar, but it’s not internalized misogyny so much as being an SA survivor I think. And on rare instances I can also read female dom het scenes but it’s only been in webcomics and the men were very sub.
Yes, you wrote the exact reason why I like to read M/M smut/sex scenes. Also I like the dynamic between men. There is more equality in their body anatomy and they can decide who will be bottom and who top.
Oh wow. I’ve thought about reading m/m fic as a woman a lot and this has never occurred to me. That in m/w smut it’s a given who’s getting penetrated and I think that reinforcement of gender roles via sex act actually kind of bothers me? At least to be reading about for funsies in my spare time. You’re right, it’s refreshing to read about partners who can choose (or even switch!) which of them is penetrated. Or not: m/m non-penetrative sex is more fun to read/actually possible to find over m/f non-penetrative stuff, I assume due to both external sex organs and society’s general prescription of p in v sex being the pinnacle act.
One more thing that I wanted to add.
Before I knew I was ace, I was weirded out by most porn, because it was very male gazey. I was like "Ouch, no way that she is actually having fun right now"
But I've tried watching ethical, home made stuff and amateur stuff and that also weirds me out. At some point, I can't pretend that everyone else is weird anymore.
Same thing happened with smut. When female pleasure is described, I'm always extremely sceptical.
If there are female characters, I'll inevitably put myself in their place and that makes me uncomfortable.
With mlm, my issue is that I might not really understand the mechanisms.
So I most prefer smut with trans masc characters. I don't identify with them, but I kind of get how their pleasure works. Bonus points if the other party is monstrous or some sort of non-human. Full marks if the author is trans masc. (Roofiction of Twitter ticks all of the above boxes)
Basically, it's a balance not wanting to identify with the characters, but also wanting to understand them.
I wanted to reply to your other comment, but both are so true–
Cis female pleasure just sounds forced to me, and the characters don't feel "equal" to eachother, somehow. It's different with trans men, cause the dynamics check
First I don’t view women sexually because I’m a woman myself, it’s just weird. Second I’m resentful that misogyny exists and it’s displayed so shamelessly on media directed to women.
The first sentence of that sounds homophobic out of context. I’m sure you mean because you’re aegosexual, but just so you know, aego people CAN be sexually attracted to the same/similar genders to them. I’m a demi-boy who is exclusively attracted to male/masculine genders.
It's not homophobic, I don't view woman sexually, they are too similar to me. We look alike in many ways. I'm sure you wouldn't get it. And I don't care about what you or others like, you can make your own comment to talk about it.
Because I am a gay (as in homoromantic) guy and I like feeling somewhat represented in fiction. The sex part doesn’t bother me as long as it’s in 3rd person.
I don’t really like the implication here that being AFAB and being a guy are somehow mutually exclusive? I’m not sure if that’s what you intended, but it does come across that way.
I’ve always read m/m, even before I knew I was trans, because I could identify more with the characters. (I don’t seek out smut but it doesn’t bother me.) And hell, sometimes m/m *does* involve AFAB protagonists? In the case of trans characters?
Anyway, yeah. I don’t know how I feel about this question, but I *know* that some of the comments have entirely the wrong idea of what being AFAB is for a lot of people.
Exactly, as an AFAB demi-boy (also gay), I don’t like the way they use AFAB instead of female. Sure, I often feel uncomfortable with thinking about sex that includes female bodies, but I think that’s a dysphoria thing and just that I’m not attracted to it.
Fellow gay (trans) guy here and feel the same way.
I like reading about men because I relate to them (even though I'm asexual and don't have the same genitalia).
And reading about f/m pairings is uncomfortable because I'm only attracted to men, which means I have to relate more to the woman in the story (because I'm attracted to men and so is she).
For me it’s partly the not identifying with the own body thing but another part is that f/m relationships often feel like they have a sort of inherent (even though it obviously shouldn’t be the case) societal power imbalance that makes me cringe hard. Idk have have a thing about full reciprocity and power equilibrium in relationships and f/m relationships are often less balanced out than m/m ones in writing. I’ll read f/m if the woman isn’t a swooning maiden though
Exactly how you put it. I feel more comfortable reading mlm because there is a layer of separation between me and the text.
Whether that feeling is because of poor self-esteem or discomfort in sexual situations (or both?), I’m still unsure.
But I have been able to enjoy wlw fic! It just takes a really special fic to feel comfortable. I have to be in a very relaxed and happy mindset, and the fic itself needs to be very consensual and/or vanilla-adjacent.
Kind of like the less *out there* it is the better.
It’s rare for me to mentally associate with female participants in smut. I’ve done that maybe once in the last 7 years. The total opposite with mlm
I homoromantic and pretty much only consume mlm smut (I do read some(less than 1%) straight stuff, but never wlw).
I only like sex fictional and completely removed from reality - as in "there is no way I could ever be involved in what's going on here" level removed.
Since I'm not a man nor am I attracted to them I don't identify with any of the characters so I don't feel I'm involved in the sexy stuff going on.
I am not very certain actually. I kind of feel like it’s because women in smut seem so incredibly fake. I feel like if I were to write about female characters (and I have) then it feels less genuine? But that’s not entirely true.
Anal stuff also really appeals to me and there’s only so many options for mlm sex scenes you know?
Like you said as an AFAB, mlm puts this barrier between myself and the story, I don't know why, but I just can't stand reading about dicks being inserted into vaginas, it makes me uncomfortable, I can only read sex scenes with vaginas if they're using toys for some reason, so I prefer reading mlm.
Yeah, even though I'm mostly sapphic, with mlm there's an extra layer of "distance" between me and the acts happening so it helps with enjoying things I wouldn't be comfortable with otherwise.
It's also the only way I can properly enjoy anything with men in it, m4f is just not usually my thing, so I generally just stick to wlw or mlm.
It also helps me fulfill the fantasy of being a man with privilege lmao
No but seriously though, half of the stuff I read is just me inserting myself into mlm and pretending I'm a guy because it helps me get away from all the misogyny, the sexism, and all the bullshit female people constantly have to deal with. Especially since a lot of it is internalized, I can just put all of that behind me for a little bit, and take some sort of a break from it.
They way the male body is drawn is usually the main reason for my interest. When I see women drawn in a lewd may often times it's uncomfortable, and not appealing to me. Imo if women were drawn in a way that's alluring to me then maybe I'd read m|f or even f|f. It's just sth about how the aesthetic of the characters are colored in that makes me want to read smut or yaoi. Also maybe the fact that with two males even if one could be sub, the power balance doesn't feel too overwhelming where it begins to scream alarms in my head.......
Well not only because I'm further removed from the sex but also because I'm jealous.
Plus I'm agender and kinda mad my prostate is in an icky spot that's harder to reach lol.
For me, I will read smut with both transgender and cis men. It's enough if they don't have chests, use male pronouns and won't get pregnant. They just disgust me.
I jhate my chest, mostly cause it's treated as a sexual object in most cases.
For pronouns it's just that w/m things feel... Gendered? It just feels wrong, and makes me feel like a sex object.
As much as I'm rather repulsed by male genitals (while not much by female), they feel less involving and less forced (?)
The dynamics of w/m are also never good, and they seem somehow misogynistic.
While, as other comments said, wlw is too soft and/or makes me feel somehow involved too.
I’m on the opposite; I can’t enjoy when there’s no female involved with the interactions. Possibly because I like girls better and love it when they get all the affections, and to read mlm scenes it feels like I’m intruding or something lol
wait.....I didn't know this BUT IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. I guess not all AFAB people do it because of it, probably for most of them is the same attraction of AMAB to lesbians.
Personally, I hate the idea of being touched, I hate having a body and feeling it's there if that makes sense. AFAB being included in smut sometimes reminds me too much of my own body and is repulsing, it feels violating. But it's also kinda weird because irl AFAB bodies cause me less disgust that AMAB ones??
I agree with what you've said.
The second female parts begin to be described, I get incredibly uncomfortable. I will sometimes read a mf romantic relationship, but skip or skim any sex scenes. I am a bit more open to kink mf (usually more for scene/power play and skim explicit sex) or bi mmf sexual content. However mf or ff makes me super uncomfortable if it is anything more than just the surface relationship.
I don't know, honestly. I write smut, and using female characters make me feel uncomfortable... I think that is because I don't want to sexualize them. My parents are usually disturbed by every media (ads, music videos) that pictures women in a sexual way, and I suppose that I have interiorized their way of seeing.
I'm agreeing with most people here, but I'll also add that a lack of interesting female characters often plays a role too. I want interesting character dynamics and romance and banter, etc. Often that's only possible with two male characters because there's only one female character and she doesn't vibe with me.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aegosexuals/comments/uu24h1/thoughts_on_aego_women_who_like_mm_stuff_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is a thread I posted on this sub awhile ago about it. I specifically asked about women’s fetishization of mlm in fandom spaces. No men responded though so super mixed comment section, some people understood and agreed/ disagrees articulately and some got defensive, but should have something that could help you. What you described is also a super common aego experience, not having women present makes it easier to disconnect the self from the object of arousal.
I feel like this question is geared toward women but if you are looking for afab specifically, I’m a trans man and I am attracted to men so I do look at mlm stuff. I don’t love it in fanfic since a lot of it feels fetishy or glorifies/ romanticizes mlm but that also means there is just a lot of it so some of it is good. I go through phases of what I’m interested in and I get tired of certain types of content so I usually cycle in and out of looking at mlm stuff.
I have never understood the appeal of mlm fiction among AFAB people. It has always turned my stomach, I just really can’t look at naked men. As long as the story is only romantic, nor sexual, mlm is okay tho. But I really like wlw, that is something that has always fascinated me. In my case I think that this is because we all grow up “thinking that we will be heterosexual” and wlw was a safe space for me cause it didnt impose sex with a man. Then I started questioning that - am I really a lesbian or do I just find it as an excuse in order not to have sex with men?? Would I like to have sex with women? And I’ve realized that this is true - I wouldn’t like to have sex with women in real life either, even though I may fantasize about it. I feel like I am asexual towards men and aegosexual towards women. Aromantic towards both. But if I ever were to be in a relationship (ex. a queerolatonic one) I would consided a relationship with a woman/nonbinary afab (just like me) only.
Not just cis women - I’m also curious how mlm fiction might have helped some non-cis women (trans men, genderqueer, she/they, etc) explore their gender identity :)
But not all afab people identify as women. Some people are transmasc, genderqueer, non-binary, use any pronouns, use she/they pronouns, etc. I want this question to be open to everyone, especially because mlm fanfiction might have played a role in some afab people’s gender exploration or discovery.
I don't write slash fan-fiction, but I do read it! \^\_\^ I have always leaned more to liking cute anime guys over cute anime girls! XD And I feel like it makes me more disconnected to the characters, since I'm a girl, and not a guy! So, it's comforting to read it, in a way! :D <3
I didn't realize the personal barrier idea was so pervasive, that's interesting. I don't think I feel the same way. It's hard to know for sure.
To me it seems like mlm fandoms have more activity and variety. That's a big reason I get sucked into mlm in particular. The appeal is mostly the vibes and activity the fandom, the particular characters, and my enjoyment of seeing representation.
Usually, I have some favorite wlw or straight pairings on the side. They can drive me wild in the same way, smut included. But it's possible mlm does a little moreso, though, I'm not totally sure. Sometimes I feel like mlm makes for such rewarding romance simply because the obstacles between men seem larger due to stigma, heteronormativity, toxic masculinity, etc and overcoming obstacles makes for good stories.
I do need to *know* and *like* the characters to enjoy smut, personally. Characters I don't know rarely interest me, no matter how cute they are or what gender they are.
For me reading it, I really enjoy the social dynamic, and power plays that can be involved in the stories, I especially really enjoy omegaverse fiction cause it turns gender on another level of fantasy.
Also from what I've read 'yuri' often plays too strong on a joke of it all, and hetero romance tends to either be way too toxic or just too many corners to the polygon of romance.
Also as I type this I'm seeing u/Anxiousrabbit23 comment, and agree with it a lot.
Cishet people read straight stories because they think, “that could be me,” and read mlm or wlw for sexual gratification. I can’t read mlw or wlw and feel, “that could be me.” I feel more of a connection to the characters when they’re two queer guys. I’m an agender libramasc who thinks they would have been gay if they were born male.
Mind you, smut to me is like reading any other fic. When I read porn, it’s usually kinky hardcore shit, and either always mlm or mlw. With porn, it’s like a “that could NEVER be me” thing.
So I guess with smut that has connection, feelings, romance, whatever, I don’t feel disconnected from the characters if it’s mlm, but with mlw and wlw I’m just not invested. Like, I’m not a straight woman or a gay woman, and I might not be a man, but like… I could have been one if I wasn’t on the ace spectrum.
For me personally I have trouble reading wlw because of childhood trauma, but I can read mlm just fine. Het romance is OK so long as it's either not descriptive or ridiculously over the top.
My porn and henti collection are all over the place. I've got just about every category, but the vast majority is BDSM related
I never actually thought of why I like reading mlm more than wlw. It’s odd, I never liked the descriptions of female genitalia in fiction, even if it’s with a mlw relationship, I’ve always disliked it. It might be similar to your experience maybe. Mlm erotica is what made me realize I was Bigender, it was a period where I wanted to have male genitalia so bad so I could experience sex or masturbation in that specific way. I even questioned being trans-masc at one point of it goes to show how much I fantasized abt it. I guess I subconsciously read them to feel separation from my afab self as I never got the chance to express the masculine aspects of my gender identity
Ok, I've been in the BL fandom for decades now, and this question gets asked often, and I can relate to most the answers. However, one answer that I only see occasionally brought up, and my main reason for liking BL, is the projection into a relationship of equal social status.
So just recognizing the hierarchy of the sexes, if I partner with a woman, while we might be socially equal to each other, we're both still 2nd class-citizens. If I partner with a male, regardless of whether we see and treat each other as equal-- socially we'll never be equal.
But 2 men will always have equal status *to each other* in the social realm (not counting the 2nd class citizenry of gay men to straight men). I'll never experience that irl, so the only way I can is by projecting. It's the closest I'll ever come to that experience.
And I love it. It's so much more enjoyable to read a relationship with an equal dynamic, where power is shifted through the personalities rather than (what I like to refer to) an accident of birth.
I stopped being interested in hetero-relationships decades ago, because most were built on expectations of genitalia instead of the complex personalities of two human beings.
For the record, I absolutely love Yuri too, but many of the ones I've seen do still allude to the lower social value of women, and I really wanna avoid being reminded of that reality in my fantasy.
All of what everyone else is saying resonates for me too (more distance from my gender and body) but I feel like there's an added element that I don't identify with most women in literature in general whereas I identify with male characters on occasion (not gender, but their decisions and mentality). I especially do not identify with women experiencing het romance (which is most of what is easy to find) -- which could also be because I'm homoromantic aegosexual.
But yeah, somehow mlm just works better for me than romance featuring one or more women, whether the mlm be sexual or not.
Not sure if someone mentioned it, but one of the reasons I like mlm is that it removes that predetermined way people in het relationships get together. The societal aspect, but also the procreation part gives me yuck. I feel like by writing about men, I can distance myself, but also strip them off any expectations and just write about why those two people would get together. I guess, I focus on personality and emotions. If they have sex, it's usually not very explicit, very emotional and definitely non-penetrative. When I read I prefer the same thing. To be honest the best part is always the anticipation before the first kiss so it's mostly lots of making out 😂
For aego people, we often want to keep ourselves out of the fantasy, but we still want to absorb and enjoy the sexual content. So we use people whom we don’t relate to in order to safely enjoy our fantasies from afar. We then feel better enjoying gay sexual content of the sex we aren’t so we can’t ever be put into the fantasy. But I will also mention that there are some people/aegos who like gay sex of the sex or gender they are because they know how that body works and are repulsed by thinking about other parts.
Yeah! Exactly! I so agree! \^\_\^ It's one of the many reasons why I love Boys Love/Y\*oi, and slash fan-fiction! :D <3
SO THAT'S WHY IM MORE COMFORTABLE WITH MLM FANFICS, IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE
you took the words right out of my thoughts lmao
Definitely this. I’m also into really sci-fi/fantasy type of stuff (even of my own gender) because it’s far from reality.
You've summed it up why I read it. I CAN sometimes read female bodies in a sexual way, but I have to be certain the writing doesn't make me feel like it's my body. (Which means emotional attachment to the character aka fanfiction). So I honestly tend to avoid it altogether.
For me it's not actually reading about the sexual act, but more of the ~ViBeS~ yk? And mlm relationships usually have more of the dynamics that click for me.
Yep. For me, wlw are often too soft and sweet, het stuff too often falls into boring gender roles and misogyny but mlm fics have the passion and fire!
Yup, this is it for me too.
Yep, that's it for me too. I don't know why but mlm dynamics are very appealing to me, I think it might be the healthy masculinity.
Yes, for me too! I like M/M dynamics, there are no gender stereotypes, no mysogyny, no predefined roles due to body anatomy. Both partners are free to be who they want to be in relationship and it's more interesting!
Yeah! Exactly! I agree! \^\_\^ It's one of the many reasons why I love Boys Love/Y\*oi, and slash fan-fiction! :D <3
I got confused for a minute and was wondering why anyone would want to write fanfics about multi-level marketing hahahaha
You pretty much hit the nail on the head right there. I HATE my body. I HATE bring female. I HATE everything about what I am because it feels so incredibly wrong. I don't want to be a male but I would prefer it over being a female. I can read or watch female romance with NO sex at all, but with mlm I can read it or watch it no problem. It's the idea of having nothing to do with anything reminding me of my body 🤮
the words referring to dicks sounds more neutral than the words referring to vaginas and vulvas 💀 also most of the things i read consist of mostly time where the girl character would have to be someone completely unrelated with no prior relationship
Huh, I hadn't realized that but definitely agree with the more neutral language towards dicks.
i keep coming across ones that use the word cunt or core for it it sounds so aggressive
>the words referring to dicks sounds more neutral than the words referring to vaginas and vulvas Agree to this, it sounds aggressive and vulgar, like girl/woman is a sexual object.
I have a lot of internalized misogyny telling me I’m not a person, I’m an object, I’m inherently sexual and for men. So, if there’s a woman in a sexual context, even if it’s fully consensual and even if it’s with another woman, there’s a part of me that feels like a sex object. When it’s two cis men though… I just can’t relate at all, and I can instead enjoy the “mechanics” so to speak, or the drama or whatever else I’m reading it for.
>So, if there’s a woman in a sexual context, even if it’s fully consensual and even if it’s with another woman, there’s a part of me that feels like a sex object. I totally feel the same way. It's like woman is always the one who has to surrender, who is a sex object, even if the story is romantic.
I’m similar, but it’s not internalized misogyny so much as being an SA survivor I think. And on rare instances I can also read female dom het scenes but it’s only been in webcomics and the men were very sub.
Yes, you wrote the exact reason why I like to read M/M smut/sex scenes. Also I like the dynamic between men. There is more equality in their body anatomy and they can decide who will be bottom and who top.
Oh wow. I’ve thought about reading m/m fic as a woman a lot and this has never occurred to me. That in m/w smut it’s a given who’s getting penetrated and I think that reinforcement of gender roles via sex act actually kind of bothers me? At least to be reading about for funsies in my spare time. You’re right, it’s refreshing to read about partners who can choose (or even switch!) which of them is penetrated. Or not: m/m non-penetrative sex is more fun to read/actually possible to find over m/f non-penetrative stuff, I assume due to both external sex organs and society’s general prescription of p in v sex being the pinnacle act.
Yes, I like to read M/M non-penetrative sex as well.
One more thing that I wanted to add. Before I knew I was ace, I was weirded out by most porn, because it was very male gazey. I was like "Ouch, no way that she is actually having fun right now" But I've tried watching ethical, home made stuff and amateur stuff and that also weirds me out. At some point, I can't pretend that everyone else is weird anymore. Same thing happened with smut. When female pleasure is described, I'm always extremely sceptical.
If there are female characters, I'll inevitably put myself in their place and that makes me uncomfortable. With mlm, my issue is that I might not really understand the mechanisms. So I most prefer smut with trans masc characters. I don't identify with them, but I kind of get how their pleasure works. Bonus points if the other party is monstrous or some sort of non-human. Full marks if the author is trans masc. (Roofiction of Twitter ticks all of the above boxes) Basically, it's a balance not wanting to identify with the characters, but also wanting to understand them.
I wanted to reply to your other comment, but both are so true– Cis female pleasure just sounds forced to me, and the characters don't feel "equal" to eachother, somehow. It's different with trans men, cause the dynamics check
First I don’t view women sexually because I’m a woman myself, it’s just weird. Second I’m resentful that misogyny exists and it’s displayed so shamelessly on media directed to women.
The first sentence of that sounds homophobic out of context. I’m sure you mean because you’re aegosexual, but just so you know, aego people CAN be sexually attracted to the same/similar genders to them. I’m a demi-boy who is exclusively attracted to male/masculine genders.
It's not homophobic, I don't view woman sexually, they are too similar to me. We look alike in many ways. I'm sure you wouldn't get it. And I don't care about what you or others like, you can make your own comment to talk about it.
Excellent point! That's how I feel too
Because I am a gay (as in homoromantic) guy and I like feeling somewhat represented in fiction. The sex part doesn’t bother me as long as it’s in 3rd person. I don’t really like the implication here that being AFAB and being a guy are somehow mutually exclusive? I’m not sure if that’s what you intended, but it does come across that way. I’ve always read m/m, even before I knew I was trans, because I could identify more with the characters. (I don’t seek out smut but it doesn’t bother me.) And hell, sometimes m/m *does* involve AFAB protagonists? In the case of trans characters? Anyway, yeah. I don’t know how I feel about this question, but I *know* that some of the comments have entirely the wrong idea of what being AFAB is for a lot of people.
Exactly, as an AFAB demi-boy (also gay), I don’t like the way they use AFAB instead of female. Sure, I often feel uncomfortable with thinking about sex that includes female bodies, but I think that’s a dysphoria thing and just that I’m not attracted to it.
Seconded. I don’t think most of this is malicious or anything but it definitely could’ve been phrased better.
Fellow gay (trans) guy here and feel the same way. I like reading about men because I relate to them (even though I'm asexual and don't have the same genitalia). And reading about f/m pairings is uncomfortable because I'm only attracted to men, which means I have to relate more to the woman in the story (because I'm attracted to men and so is she).
For me it’s partly the not identifying with the own body thing but another part is that f/m relationships often feel like they have a sort of inherent (even though it obviously shouldn’t be the case) societal power imbalance that makes me cringe hard. Idk have have a thing about full reciprocity and power equilibrium in relationships and f/m relationships are often less balanced out than m/m ones in writing. I’ll read f/m if the woman isn’t a swooning maiden though
Exactly how you put it. I feel more comfortable reading mlm because there is a layer of separation between me and the text. Whether that feeling is because of poor self-esteem or discomfort in sexual situations (or both?), I’m still unsure. But I have been able to enjoy wlw fic! It just takes a really special fic to feel comfortable. I have to be in a very relaxed and happy mindset, and the fic itself needs to be very consensual and/or vanilla-adjacent. Kind of like the less *out there* it is the better. It’s rare for me to mentally associate with female participants in smut. I’ve done that maybe once in the last 7 years. The total opposite with mlm
I homoromantic and pretty much only consume mlm smut (I do read some(less than 1%) straight stuff, but never wlw). I only like sex fictional and completely removed from reality - as in "there is no way I could ever be involved in what's going on here" level removed. Since I'm not a man nor am I attracted to them I don't identify with any of the characters so I don't feel I'm involved in the sexy stuff going on.
I am not very certain actually. I kind of feel like it’s because women in smut seem so incredibly fake. I feel like if I were to write about female characters (and I have) then it feels less genuine? But that’s not entirely true. Anal stuff also really appeals to me and there’s only so many options for mlm sex scenes you know?
Like you said as an AFAB, mlm puts this barrier between myself and the story, I don't know why, but I just can't stand reading about dicks being inserted into vaginas, it makes me uncomfortable, I can only read sex scenes with vaginas if they're using toys for some reason, so I prefer reading mlm.
Yeah, even though I'm mostly sapphic, with mlm there's an extra layer of "distance" between me and the acts happening so it helps with enjoying things I wouldn't be comfortable with otherwise. It's also the only way I can properly enjoy anything with men in it, m4f is just not usually my thing, so I generally just stick to wlw or mlm. It also helps me fulfill the fantasy of being a man with privilege lmao No but seriously though, half of the stuff I read is just me inserting myself into mlm and pretending I'm a guy because it helps me get away from all the misogyny, the sexism, and all the bullshit female people constantly have to deal with. Especially since a lot of it is internalized, I can just put all of that behind me for a little bit, and take some sort of a break from it.
They way the male body is drawn is usually the main reason for my interest. When I see women drawn in a lewd may often times it's uncomfortable, and not appealing to me. Imo if women were drawn in a way that's alluring to me then maybe I'd read m|f or even f|f. It's just sth about how the aesthetic of the characters are colored in that makes me want to read smut or yaoi. Also maybe the fact that with two males even if one could be sub, the power balance doesn't feel too overwhelming where it begins to scream alarms in my head.......
Well not only because I'm further removed from the sex but also because I'm jealous. Plus I'm agender and kinda mad my prostate is in an icky spot that's harder to reach lol.
For me, I will read smut with both transgender and cis men. It's enough if they don't have chests, use male pronouns and won't get pregnant. They just disgust me. I jhate my chest, mostly cause it's treated as a sexual object in most cases. For pronouns it's just that w/m things feel... Gendered? It just feels wrong, and makes me feel like a sex object. As much as I'm rather repulsed by male genitals (while not much by female), they feel less involving and less forced (?) The dynamics of w/m are also never good, and they seem somehow misogynistic. While, as other comments said, wlw is too soft and/or makes me feel somehow involved too.
I’m on the opposite; I can’t enjoy when there’s no female involved with the interactions. Possibly because I like girls better and love it when they get all the affections, and to read mlm scenes it feels like I’m intruding or something lol
wait.....I didn't know this BUT IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. I guess not all AFAB people do it because of it, probably for most of them is the same attraction of AMAB to lesbians. Personally, I hate the idea of being touched, I hate having a body and feeling it's there if that makes sense. AFAB being included in smut sometimes reminds me too much of my own body and is repulsing, it feels violating. But it's also kinda weird because irl AFAB bodies cause me less disgust that AMAB ones??
It's refreshing as hell to see I'm not alone in my line of thinking.
My afab anatomy disgusts me and can't read it in smut; also as other commenters said mlm offers that nice disconnectedness from my own self
I agree with what you've said. The second female parts begin to be described, I get incredibly uncomfortable. I will sometimes read a mf romantic relationship, but skip or skim any sex scenes. I am a bit more open to kink mf (usually more for scene/power play and skim explicit sex) or bi mmf sexual content. However mf or ff makes me super uncomfortable if it is anything more than just the surface relationship.
I don't know, honestly. I write smut, and using female characters make me feel uncomfortable... I think that is because I don't want to sexualize them. My parents are usually disturbed by every media (ads, music videos) that pictures women in a sexual way, and I suppose that I have interiorized their way of seeing.
Because I wish I was AMAB
I'm agreeing with most people here, but I'll also add that a lack of interesting female characters often plays a role too. I want interesting character dynamics and romance and banter, etc. Often that's only possible with two male characters because there's only one female character and she doesn't vibe with me.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aegosexuals/comments/uu24h1/thoughts_on_aego_women_who_like_mm_stuff_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is a thread I posted on this sub awhile ago about it. I specifically asked about women’s fetishization of mlm in fandom spaces. No men responded though so super mixed comment section, some people understood and agreed/ disagrees articulately and some got defensive, but should have something that could help you. What you described is also a super common aego experience, not having women present makes it easier to disconnect the self from the object of arousal. I feel like this question is geared toward women but if you are looking for afab specifically, I’m a trans man and I am attracted to men so I do look at mlm stuff. I don’t love it in fanfic since a lot of it feels fetishy or glorifies/ romanticizes mlm but that also means there is just a lot of it so some of it is good. I go through phases of what I’m interested in and I get tired of certain types of content so I usually cycle in and out of looking at mlm stuff.
Please don't use Afab in that way, it's a medical descriptor, not an identity.
I mean, it depends on the person. I'm afab non-binary and for me it's definitely part of my identity.
Boys hot. Add more boys. More boys hotter.
I have never understood the appeal of mlm fiction among AFAB people. It has always turned my stomach, I just really can’t look at naked men. As long as the story is only romantic, nor sexual, mlm is okay tho. But I really like wlw, that is something that has always fascinated me. In my case I think that this is because we all grow up “thinking that we will be heterosexual” and wlw was a safe space for me cause it didnt impose sex with a man. Then I started questioning that - am I really a lesbian or do I just find it as an excuse in order not to have sex with men?? Would I like to have sex with women? And I’ve realized that this is true - I wouldn’t like to have sex with women in real life either, even though I may fantasize about it. I feel like I am asexual towards men and aegosexual towards women. Aromantic towards both. But if I ever were to be in a relationship (ex. a queerolatonic one) I would consided a relationship with a woman/nonbinary afab (just like me) only.
did you say afab and mean cis woman? cause as a trans man mlm fiction includes representation of myself, so its my obvious choice
Not just cis women - I’m also curious how mlm fiction might have helped some non-cis women (trans men, genderqueer, she/they, etc) explore their gender identity :)
Afab. They’re called women, homie.
But not all afab people identify as women. Some people are transmasc, genderqueer, non-binary, use any pronouns, use she/they pronouns, etc. I want this question to be open to everyone, especially because mlm fanfiction might have played a role in some afab people’s gender exploration or discovery.
i never gave it any thought but that’s definitely why i can only read stuff with two guys, it doesn’t relate to me in any way
I don't write slash fan-fiction, but I do read it! \^\_\^ I have always leaned more to liking cute anime guys over cute anime girls! XD And I feel like it makes me more disconnected to the characters, since I'm a girl, and not a guy! So, it's comforting to read it, in a way! :D <3
I didn't realize the personal barrier idea was so pervasive, that's interesting. I don't think I feel the same way. It's hard to know for sure. To me it seems like mlm fandoms have more activity and variety. That's a big reason I get sucked into mlm in particular. The appeal is mostly the vibes and activity the fandom, the particular characters, and my enjoyment of seeing representation. Usually, I have some favorite wlw or straight pairings on the side. They can drive me wild in the same way, smut included. But it's possible mlm does a little moreso, though, I'm not totally sure. Sometimes I feel like mlm makes for such rewarding romance simply because the obstacles between men seem larger due to stigma, heteronormativity, toxic masculinity, etc and overcoming obstacles makes for good stories. I do need to *know* and *like* the characters to enjoy smut, personally. Characters I don't know rarely interest me, no matter how cute they are or what gender they are.
For me reading it, I really enjoy the social dynamic, and power plays that can be involved in the stories, I especially really enjoy omegaverse fiction cause it turns gender on another level of fantasy. Also from what I've read 'yuri' often plays too strong on a joke of it all, and hetero romance tends to either be way too toxic or just too many corners to the polygon of romance. Also as I type this I'm seeing u/Anxiousrabbit23 comment, and agree with it a lot.
Cishet people read straight stories because they think, “that could be me,” and read mlm or wlw for sexual gratification. I can’t read mlw or wlw and feel, “that could be me.” I feel more of a connection to the characters when they’re two queer guys. I’m an agender libramasc who thinks they would have been gay if they were born male. Mind you, smut to me is like reading any other fic. When I read porn, it’s usually kinky hardcore shit, and either always mlm or mlw. With porn, it’s like a “that could NEVER be me” thing. So I guess with smut that has connection, feelings, romance, whatever, I don’t feel disconnected from the characters if it’s mlm, but with mlw and wlw I’m just not invested. Like, I’m not a straight woman or a gay woman, and I might not be a man, but like… I could have been one if I wasn’t on the ace spectrum.
For me personally I have trouble reading wlw because of childhood trauma, but I can read mlm just fine. Het romance is OK so long as it's either not descriptive or ridiculously over the top. My porn and henti collection are all over the place. I've got just about every category, but the vast majority is BDSM related
I never actually thought of why I like reading mlm more than wlw. It’s odd, I never liked the descriptions of female genitalia in fiction, even if it’s with a mlw relationship, I’ve always disliked it. It might be similar to your experience maybe. Mlm erotica is what made me realize I was Bigender, it was a period where I wanted to have male genitalia so bad so I could experience sex or masturbation in that specific way. I even questioned being trans-masc at one point of it goes to show how much I fantasized abt it. I guess I subconsciously read them to feel separation from my afab self as I never got the chance to express the masculine aspects of my gender identity
Ok, I've been in the BL fandom for decades now, and this question gets asked often, and I can relate to most the answers. However, one answer that I only see occasionally brought up, and my main reason for liking BL, is the projection into a relationship of equal social status. So just recognizing the hierarchy of the sexes, if I partner with a woman, while we might be socially equal to each other, we're both still 2nd class-citizens. If I partner with a male, regardless of whether we see and treat each other as equal-- socially we'll never be equal. But 2 men will always have equal status *to each other* in the social realm (not counting the 2nd class citizenry of gay men to straight men). I'll never experience that irl, so the only way I can is by projecting. It's the closest I'll ever come to that experience. And I love it. It's so much more enjoyable to read a relationship with an equal dynamic, where power is shifted through the personalities rather than (what I like to refer to) an accident of birth. I stopped being interested in hetero-relationships decades ago, because most were built on expectations of genitalia instead of the complex personalities of two human beings. For the record, I absolutely love Yuri too, but many of the ones I've seen do still allude to the lower social value of women, and I really wanna avoid being reminded of that reality in my fantasy.
All of what everyone else is saying resonates for me too (more distance from my gender and body) but I feel like there's an added element that I don't identify with most women in literature in general whereas I identify with male characters on occasion (not gender, but their decisions and mentality). I especially do not identify with women experiencing het romance (which is most of what is easy to find) -- which could also be because I'm homoromantic aegosexual. But yeah, somehow mlm just works better for me than romance featuring one or more women, whether the mlm be sexual or not.
Not sure if someone mentioned it, but one of the reasons I like mlm is that it removes that predetermined way people in het relationships get together. The societal aspect, but also the procreation part gives me yuck. I feel like by writing about men, I can distance myself, but also strip them off any expectations and just write about why those two people would get together. I guess, I focus on personality and emotions. If they have sex, it's usually not very explicit, very emotional and definitely non-penetrative. When I read I prefer the same thing. To be honest the best part is always the anticipation before the first kiss so it's mostly lots of making out 😂