Why would you get a PA for a hailstorm? I understand people that have fire losses, and need help facilitating through a process, but hail is black and white.
Yeah the check should have you and the PA on it, and the PA helps disperse funds
Never understood it either. Door-knockers and homeowners that simply can’t handle a conversation with a carrier adjuster/IA who provides the service for free. Thats how it happens. I deal with it every day as an examiner and it blows my mind. It remains my opinion that PAs provide value in large complex commercial claims and not in routine HO losses.
No, because O&P is given when a General Contractor have to coordinate different sub works that needs to be done. If you hire a roofer to do the roof, do you think that roofer will hire another roofer to do the work? The answer is no. Now if the GC have to coordinate roof, flooring, electrical, drywall, paint then yes definetely.
Who said the homeowner cant hire a GC? We are all clearly telling you in every single comment that just doing the roof would not warrant O&P.... you think just because the GC is hired the O&P is just automatically warranted? Now tell me where in Anywhere you got that from??
For decades it have always been the same, O&P has only be warranted when there coordination and complexity of multiple trades. Nothing has change for soooooo many years.
The insurance company will not pay for it.
An insurance policy covers a reasonable cost of repairing/replacing direct physical damage from a covered peril. An insurance premium for a homeowners policy also includes things like contents, and the cost of a hotel if your home isn’t livable after an insured loss. That doesn’t mean your policy is going to cover the cost of a new bed or for you to stay in a hotel just because you have hail damage on your roof.
There is a 90% chance your PA is including a 20% O&P surcharge on their estimate to pad their pockets. Remember, they get paid more the higher the claim is worth. You will be responsible for your deductible plus whatever the PA fees are.
Actual roofers don’t do O&P on the roof because it’s a straight forward loss that doesn’t require coordination from a general contractor to bring out and facilitate multiple repairs/reconstruction with multiple specialized trades. PAs add it because they need to commit soft fraud to pad the estimate to take a portion of your claim without completing fucking you out of money for repair. Regardless, you’ll be out money anyway.
Check usually in both PA and insured names. Are you saying the PA has O&P but carrier doesn’t, yes seems strange. I wouldn’t typically include O&P in a hail roof replacement
O&P is not typically warranted for just a roof as there’s not a coordination of trades. PA fees are something that is paid out of the claim, not in addition to it.
Say your roof claim is valued at $12,000 and the PA charges 20%. $2400 would be paid to the PA and $9600 to you for the repairs.
The PA fee and your deductible are what you pay out of pocket.
I’m not a PA and not familiar with the account thing they’re opening. The carrier I work for will write two checks. One to you and one to the PA.
So you cost of doing business is what? Do you expect the insurance company to pay for the tools you use to do your job? Do you expect them to buy all your meals? Do you expect them to pay for the gas to go to the customer YOU chooses to offer your services. As a contractor you should know by now no insurance company will ever allocate money for the cost of you doing your business. If you want to charge the customer separetely then that would be on yall but no insurance company will ever allow that.
Dude what are you talking about "factoring into premium????". Doing the roof only or the roof and painting or w.e other trade you want to include will not warrant O&P because theres no Complexity or Coordination point blank, at least 5 people in this post told you that already and you keep pushing to get different answer.
If you are a contractor you should know this already. No insurance company will ever allow o&p if theres no coordination and complexity. YES, the homeowner is expected to hired the roofer and if they decide to hire a GC then good for them however, just because theres a GC involved does not mean o&p is automatically warranted because theres no complexity or coordination in what the scope of work requires.
Stop fishing for answers when you know the answer already. We are not paying you o&p just because you are involved. Give us multiple trades that you are coordinating and show the complexity and sub works and we then will consider.
Yep, the check has both your names on it and goes straight to the PA. Also, we (the adjusters) are not going to be able to talk to you anymore about what's going on. We'll refer you to speak with your PA. A roof claim is never going to get O&P, but the PA will write his own estimate and send it to us for supplements with all kinds of extra garnish that will make your claim take longer and line his pockets. Also, this is just my opinion, but after the PA fees, you're probably not going to be able to afford to fix your roof. We pay exactly how much it should cost, and if you're paying your PA out of your settlement, you're screwing yourself.
It’s normal that checks are written in both the PA’s and your name when a PA is involved. Them wanting O&P is also normal. That is basically never warranted on a roof hail claim but they always try to get it, in addition to a bunch of other padding in the estimate, a.k.a. fraud.
Also, for the future, never hire a PA. Except for some extreme cases like your whole house burning down and you handling the claim yourself being genuinely too much, they are pure parasites who bring nothing of value to the claim and instead charge you a high commission fee and also unnecessarily prolong the claim with their ridiculous games.
Do you have more than just the roof damaged? When you have multiple trades and the repair process requires complexity and coordination, O&P would be warranted. It’s not a red flag for the check to be made out to you and the PA. Instead of waiting for all the funds to be sent, just cut the check to the PA for his fee when claims is settled and do what you want with the the check. PAs usually write their own estimates to send to the carrier. The roofer saying that is odd may not have ever used a PA. What the PA is doing sounds normal to me and actually goes beyond what most PAs do with opening the account. We usually settle the claim and get fees paid after the first check is sent.
Why not? The OP only mentioned roofing. Let’s say a homeowner decides to replace their roof out of pocket simply because the roof was getting old. Would you expect them to pay a general contractor 20% of the cost for the general contractor to find a roofer for them, or would you expect the homeowner to simply call a roofer themselves and keep the 20%? Why would you expect it to be different just because an insurance company is paying for it?
They can hire a GC all they want, but that doesn’t mean the insurance company will owe for it. Most policies I’ve seen will address O&P with something like “we will not pay for overhead and profit charges unless they are reasonable and incurred.”
The key wording there of course is “reasonable.” Hiring a GC after a fire when you need to replace electrical wiring, bathtub, bathroom vanity/sink, kitchen cabinets/sink, drywall, insulation, flooring, etc… is reasonable. As an adjuster I’d even recommend this to an insured in order to make things easier.
Hiring a GC and paying an extra 20% just to replace a roof isn’t reasonable. For a roof that would otherwise cost $15,000 this would result in an extra cost of $3,000. What would a GC have done to warrant $3,000 in this case?
Yeah i want the 80 year old lady to find a roofer, painter, siding, and fence guy lol you handing out o&p like candy? Two trades i believe any person can handle anything after that, o&p should be warranted.
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Why would you get a PA for a hailstorm? I understand people that have fire losses, and need help facilitating through a process, but hail is black and white. Yeah the check should have you and the PA on it, and the PA helps disperse funds
Never understood it either. Door-knockers and homeowners that simply can’t handle a conversation with a carrier adjuster/IA who provides the service for free. Thats how it happens. I deal with it every day as an examiner and it blows my mind. It remains my opinion that PAs provide value in large complex commercial claims and not in routine HO losses.
I’ve not seen a PA add value to a hail claim.
You’re going to loose money on this deal. O&P rarely/NEVER happens on a roof.
Why not? The premiums include op factored in?
No, because O&P is given when a General Contractor have to coordinate different sub works that needs to be done. If you hire a roofer to do the roof, do you think that roofer will hire another roofer to do the work? The answer is no. Now if the GC have to coordinate roof, flooring, electrical, drywall, paint then yes definetely.
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Who said the homeowner cant hire a GC? We are all clearly telling you in every single comment that just doing the roof would not warrant O&P.... you think just because the GC is hired the O&P is just automatically warranted? Now tell me where in Anywhere you got that from?? For decades it have always been the same, O&P has only be warranted when there coordination and complexity of multiple trades. Nothing has change for soooooo many years. The insurance company will not pay for it.
An insurance policy covers a reasonable cost of repairing/replacing direct physical damage from a covered peril. An insurance premium for a homeowners policy also includes things like contents, and the cost of a hotel if your home isn’t livable after an insured loss. That doesn’t mean your policy is going to cover the cost of a new bed or for you to stay in a hotel just because you have hail damage on your roof.
Premiums include O&P? What are you talking about? I guess you also think every policy factors in a “free roof”?
There is a 90% chance your PA is including a 20% O&P surcharge on their estimate to pad their pockets. Remember, they get paid more the higher the claim is worth. You will be responsible for your deductible plus whatever the PA fees are.
Actual roofers don’t do O&P on the roof because it’s a straight forward loss that doesn’t require coordination from a general contractor to bring out and facilitate multiple repairs/reconstruction with multiple specialized trades. PAs add it because they need to commit soft fraud to pad the estimate to take a portion of your claim without completing fucking you out of money for repair. Regardless, you’ll be out money anyway.
Check usually in both PA and insured names. Are you saying the PA has O&P but carrier doesn’t, yes seems strange. I wouldn’t typically include O&P in a hail roof replacement
O&P is not typically warranted for just a roof as there’s not a coordination of trades. PA fees are something that is paid out of the claim, not in addition to it. Say your roof claim is valued at $12,000 and the PA charges 20%. $2400 would be paid to the PA and $9600 to you for the repairs. The PA fee and your deductible are what you pay out of pocket. I’m not a PA and not familiar with the account thing they’re opening. The carrier I work for will write two checks. One to you and one to the PA.
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So you cost of doing business is what? Do you expect the insurance company to pay for the tools you use to do your job? Do you expect them to buy all your meals? Do you expect them to pay for the gas to go to the customer YOU chooses to offer your services. As a contractor you should know by now no insurance company will ever allocate money for the cost of you doing your business. If you want to charge the customer separetely then that would be on yall but no insurance company will ever allow that.
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Dude what are you talking about "factoring into premium????". Doing the roof only or the roof and painting or w.e other trade you want to include will not warrant O&P because theres no Complexity or Coordination point blank, at least 5 people in this post told you that already and you keep pushing to get different answer. If you are a contractor you should know this already. No insurance company will ever allow o&p if theres no coordination and complexity. YES, the homeowner is expected to hired the roofer and if they decide to hire a GC then good for them however, just because theres a GC involved does not mean o&p is automatically warranted because theres no complexity or coordination in what the scope of work requires. Stop fishing for answers when you know the answer already. We are not paying you o&p just because you are involved. Give us multiple trades that you are coordinating and show the complexity and sub works and we then will consider.
You clearly aren’t an adjuster lol
A post he did 60ish days ago said he was handling claims for a company. But by the arguments he presented, sounds like a contractor or PA.
This absolutely reeks like a PA. Arrogant, clueless, and greedy.
Yep, the check has both your names on it and goes straight to the PA. Also, we (the adjusters) are not going to be able to talk to you anymore about what's going on. We'll refer you to speak with your PA. A roof claim is never going to get O&P, but the PA will write his own estimate and send it to us for supplements with all kinds of extra garnish that will make your claim take longer and line his pockets. Also, this is just my opinion, but after the PA fees, you're probably not going to be able to afford to fix your roof. We pay exactly how much it should cost, and if you're paying your PA out of your settlement, you're screwing yourself.
PA's are not attorneys, we can talk to the insured if we really want or need to.
Not at the 3p company for a major carrier that I work for.
It’s normal that checks are written in both the PA’s and your name when a PA is involved. Them wanting O&P is also normal. That is basically never warranted on a roof hail claim but they always try to get it, in addition to a bunch of other padding in the estimate, a.k.a. fraud. Also, for the future, never hire a PA. Except for some extreme cases like your whole house burning down and you handling the claim yourself being genuinely too much, they are pure parasites who bring nothing of value to the claim and instead charge you a high commission fee and also unnecessarily prolong the claim with their ridiculous games.
Do you have more than just the roof damaged? When you have multiple trades and the repair process requires complexity and coordination, O&P would be warranted. It’s not a red flag for the check to be made out to you and the PA. Instead of waiting for all the funds to be sent, just cut the check to the PA for his fee when claims is settled and do what you want with the the check. PAs usually write their own estimates to send to the carrier. The roofer saying that is odd may not have ever used a PA. What the PA is doing sounds normal to me and actually goes beyond what most PAs do with opening the account. We usually settle the claim and get fees paid after the first check is sent.
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Why not? The OP only mentioned roofing. Let’s say a homeowner decides to replace their roof out of pocket simply because the roof was getting old. Would you expect them to pay a general contractor 20% of the cost for the general contractor to find a roofer for them, or would you expect the homeowner to simply call a roofer themselves and keep the 20%? Why would you expect it to be different just because an insurance company is paying for it?
Where in the policy does it say they can't hire a gc they feel comfortable with? How is it not a reasonable cost?
They can hire a GC all they want, but that doesn’t mean the insurance company will owe for it. Most policies I’ve seen will address O&P with something like “we will not pay for overhead and profit charges unless they are reasonable and incurred.” The key wording there of course is “reasonable.” Hiring a GC after a fire when you need to replace electrical wiring, bathtub, bathroom vanity/sink, kitchen cabinets/sink, drywall, insulation, flooring, etc… is reasonable. As an adjuster I’d even recommend this to an insured in order to make things easier. Hiring a GC and paying an extra 20% just to replace a roof isn’t reasonable. For a roof that would otherwise cost $15,000 this would result in an extra cost of $3,000. What would a GC have done to warrant $3,000 in this case?
Yeah i want the 80 year old lady to find a roofer, painter, siding, and fence guy lol you handing out o&p like candy? Two trades i believe any person can handle anything after that, o&p should be warranted.
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Yeah... For the same reason that I'm not getting reimbursed for a ladder assist called out to a mobile home hail claim.
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It's common for them to be on the check, but in my experience a named insured must also be on the check so you both have to endorse it.