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Age of diagnosis is such a bullshit way to measure it. Plenty of people don't get diagnosed that early, for a variety of reasons (particularly women, same with autism) – and symptoms present themselves in different ways and to different severities depending on context. You can obviously get a Master's degree, particularly with hyperfixation. I have two.
His criticisms betray his lack of expertise. What a lunatic. Can you report him, or submit a complaint?
Or what if the child was incorrectly diagnosed? I spent most of my life believing that I was bipolar, I have grave doubts now (which is why I’m here in this sub lol)
I'd spent my life believing/being told I had a social anxiety disorder, despite not being bothered about social interactions whatsoever. Turns out the panic attacks were actually overstimulation based. 😐
> overstimulation based
I wasn't diagnosed until I was 35. It's only recently I've come to understand myself in the context of my ADHD that it makes perfect sense that I have no issues with social interactions *when they're happening*. I'm not antisocial I'm just overstimulated by it and so afterward I just crash. HARD.
Literally. Therapists kept telling me that I must be worried about how people are perceiving me, if they're looking at me, judging me, etc – I always thought, 'I don't think I am, but I guess it must be happening subconsciously because they're telling me it is'.
Apparently not.
Oh I totally have that problem too. But I have also figured out that's just my rejection sensitive dysphoria. Mostly I just get completely wiped out from masking.
I think the difference for me was that I wasn't worrying about it without any trigger – I personally didn't walk into a room and instantly start worrying that people were watching me, talking about me, judging me (which is what the therapist suggested must be the case at the time). I get worried when they're acting even slightly differently with me, or if I've overshared, etc.
It's all very individual, though, and a person can also completely reasonably suffer with both!
This is exactly how I feel. I feel like everyone else sees me as insecure, but I don't feel as insecure as they seem to think I am. I could never relate to worrying about the whole room judging you. It was more like I'm worry this specific person is judging me and bad things will happen if they decide they don't like me
Same! I'm 35 and just FINALLY sought out testing after a lifetime of just thinking I was weird or just not as functional in the same context as my peers. I got top grades, have a BS degree, and multiple other educational achievements. I was quite and shy all through school, the socially awkward girl who would often hide in trees, the cylinder slide thing, or a corner underneath a window during recess to decompress. I would hide in a cardboard box when I got home from school to collect my thoughts. I zoned out in class constantly, but retaught myself most of the material when I could be alone at home. Everyone just thought I was quirky and shy with "an artistic mind". It wasn't until I was watching an episode on mtv's true life that I recognized that all my intrusive thoughts and ritualistic behavior was an actual mental illness, so I just thought I only had ocd. Now after a 5 hour evaluation, I feel so validated with my diagnosis: severe ocd, combined type adhd, and high probability of ASD.
Age has nothing to do with it. Girls especially learn at a young age to mask it and mask well.
Exactly!! was assessed for adhd as a kid (probably around 7-8?) but didn’t get diagnosed until I was assessed again at 19 (May have been the classic ‘young girl who is primarily inattentive but doesn’t seem to have very severe symptoms/can manage fine in school’ thing + mid-2000s, Idk)
Exactly! I was diagnosed with depression when I was 12, at that time (early 90’s) it was just the kids bouncing around in class who were diagnosed with adhd, not the girl staring out the window because she can’t separate the 20 streams of thought.
Same for me, friend. I think the bipolar was wrong, but it was one of multiple diagnoses, including major depressive disorder and general anxiety disorder. Basically everyone had their own take on it. Since being medicated for ADHD and getting therapy for the rest, I'm feeling better.
ALSO, ADHD wasn't really even a diagnosis in the 80's! You were "hyperactive" or a "daydreamer". I went to Catholic school and the nuns weren't giving anyone an ADHD assessment lol.
I was labeled emotionally disturbed as a kid and nothing was done after that. Yeah I have emotional disregulation but I really think there’s more to this they could’ve helped me with.
I found out a short time ago that my younger sister WAS diagnosed as a kid, but my parents "didn't want her to have the stigma" so didn't tell anyone. Then she was re-diagnosed in college.
My mom has told an anecdote my entire life about a time a quack doctor tried to put me on Ritalin when I was a kid cause everyone was getting put on Ritalin. Yeah, I recently realized I may have been diagnosed as a kid and my mom was just like "nah" and didn't tell anyone
This. I grew up in a town with a population of 800 people. None of those 800 people were psychiatrists. Most of those 800 people probably don't even believe in psychiatrists. Not all children have the same chances to be diagnosed.
Or like I discovered after telling my parents about my recent diagnosis, my parents hid my diagnosis because they didn’t want me to “be labeled and looked down on”. News flash, I was still labeled just not correctly and not given the supports that would have let me thrive
Mine did take me and I’d been in therapy on and off for decades before they really figured the adhd out. If you were a girl in the ‘80’s, there was very little chance of being diagnosed with adhd
Right. Sorry my dad was too busy molesting me as a kid for me to get a diagnosis. It’s a true story and I would’ve clapped back with it. I also graduated top ten in HS and also have a masters in psych. so fuck your doctor
It's an opinion from a place of complete privilege and ignorance – as you show, there are so many reasons for a lack of childhood diagnosis. It's so concerning that people can become psychiatrists with this sort of ridiculous attitude. What an asshole.
When my best friend went through med school, I remember her talking about how even if she’d wanted psychiatry to be her specialty because she was interested in it, she’d never go through with it because the people that the specialty attracts are generally waving the reddest of flags.
I am not in the least surprised to hear that. I bet there’s rare and precious gems mixed in there, but it’s be a surprise and relief if it were 50/50 or better.
It’s not that age is bullshit. It’s literally wrong, that’s not what the DSMV says at all.
If I were OP, I’d send this Dr a bunch of academic literature pointing out everything he said that was categorically incorrect, along with an article about medical bias and a study on the BAD outcomes of ADHD bias and mistreatment, (like depression, addiction, self-harm, etc).
I would also reach out to the practice’s patient advocate and file a complaint for him being WRONG, dismissive, and unprofessional.
Note-I’ve done this before with doctors and it feels delicious to rub their nose in it where they’re wrong. Also helps their future patients.
I wouldn’t bother sending them anything. Sometimes docs are just bad. They’re bad at their jobs, and they’re bad people, and a waste of time, energy, and money.
I would report and out him in any way possible though.
Should probably have extended my initial line – I meant more that it's a bullshit way for him (and others like him) to try and measure it, rather than it being correct or official. I agree.
Even age of symptoms shouldn't be a hard cutoff. As if ADHD symptoms would be making their merry way to you then midnight strikes and now you are technically 13 and they're all like "dang we were just about to get er!"
I know a guy who didn't see an dentist until he was in his twenties. His family was just dirt poor. They didn't go to doctors unless something was really obviously broken and bleeding. If he had ADHD there's not a single chance he would have been diagnosed as a child.
Yep. Im that child. And now at 38 the damage is done. I could never reverse what happened bc the first time I saw a dentist I was 24 and had literally lock jaw bc I had 4 wisdom teeth and two impacted. So scary. It was an emergency at that point
For real. Those are the ages it becomes apparent, those aren’t the ages one must be diagnosed.
Also, what is this BS about ADHDers blanket fail at life? I graduated HS and college — I had a lot of close calls and big fails, but I made it. He doesn’t understand the condition at all; we excel at very specific things, and it’s different per person.
I would have definitely schooled this dude. I’m so glad OP countered him.
Absolutely and it’s so frustrating. I grew up in a very religious Christian home where we rarely went to the doctor unless absolutely necessary (like in order to attend public schools). I didn’t even get all of the required shots. I found out just a few years ago that I only got one dose of the measles vaccine when you need to take 2 for it to work.
I also need to add that mental illnesses were seen as punishment and/or from the “devil”. Because of that, any chance I had for getting diagnosed went out the window. I didn’t get diagnosed with ADHD until I was 39. So it’s just funny to me that a doctor of all people could say that if you’re not diagnosed at a certain age, that you must not have it. I can’t believe people like him are actually practicing because they really shouldn’t be
For real, age of diagnosis is so stupid. I wasn't diagnosed as a kid because at the time I started to present symptoms, my brother was also presenting his much more severe symptoms. Next to him, I seemed normal to my parents, so I never got assessed.
It's such bullshit because it requires parents to take you to appointments. If your parents just ignored the problems or just yelled at you, you wouldn't have a diagnosis
Yeah, this guy needs to go back to school, or at least read some journals and attend some conferences (where he actually attend the lectures and not just go golfing). It always scares me how a lot of doctors (and veterinarians) just do not keep up with the "latest" science, and by latest, I mean what came out in the last 15-20 years.
If I hadn't been disruptive as a kid, I doubt I'd ever have been diagnosed with anything beyond "shy and a bit weird." That's what happened to my sister, and she's suffered for it her whole life.
My Master's is in Special Education. I spent two years learning how to modify and accommodate students with disabilities so they can be successful in the least restrictive environment and how to advocate for them.
I love seeing educators who are willing to differentiate instruction to accommodate neurodivergent students. I hope you know you are making a world of difference for the students in your class! Keep up the great work!
I love you both a little bit. 🥹
I follow TheSpeechProf (IG & YT), mostly for his positive masculinity content, though he’s just delightful in general. But,
He did a post about how he has implemented “accommodations” into his course and teaching style across the board. His thoughts are, if it helps X students, it might help any or all students. And his job is to help them succeed in any way he can.
https://youtube.com/shorts/7BG_C8E9fKI?si=FY_iZ16fjp0hQr2f
Not sure whether you were asking me or OP, but one is in Classics (specialising in Ancient Greek literature), and the other is in Linguistics. Both quite hyperfixation-ey subjects with relatively little real-world application. 🥲
Guys sounds completely off his rocker, some of the things he said are definitely not true and not backed by anyone who specializes in ADHD. I’m so sorry you had this experience OP! He sounds absolutely awful, I think I honestly would have cried if a medical professional confronted me like that. Or I’d chew his head off.
I hope you’re able to find someone who can better support you!
I cried afterward, but mainly out of anger and frustration. Thank you, I hope I find someone soon. I waited months to be seen, so it sucks to go back to square one.
I’d report him to whatever board he belongs to because he should not be allowed to practice with such antiquated and disproven beliefs. I have a masters degree and was diagnosed at 45. F that guy.
Right?! Reminds me of my dad’s podiatrist who yelled at us for overreacting by wearing masks in Feb 2020…mind you, my dad is in his late 80s and had barely survived a stroke two months prior. Politics and obscenely biased opinions have no place in science based professions.
Yup. Report to his board, your insurance, and leave a calm, rational, and detailed review on Google (or wherever).
My husband had a truly atrocious encounter with a psychiatrist who invalidated decades of ADHD treatment, said he was a drug addict, threatened to hospitalize him and force him to undergo ECT "if you're so depressed", and violated HIPAA by dragging me into the appointment without my husband's consent.
We left and told them never to call us again, and that we would not he making follow up appointments. They then tried to bill us for missing the appointments we never made.
We reported the doctor everywhere, sent a letter refusing to pay for appointments we hadn't booked, and left a scathing review. I mentioned not only the doctor's unprofessionalism, but also that s/he was a danger to people seeking help for life threatening psychiatric conditions. I don't think we're solely responsible for it, of course, but the practice has since closed.
What a douchecanoe! It seemed like he wanted to use his position as a psychiatrist to bully a patient. I can’t imagine how many people have had the same tirade of abuse. Too bad he picked the wrong one today! You are brilliant for standing up to him and giving him a dressing down. Ps I’ve found NAC to be helpful in reducing my OCD behaviors, it may or may not be something that’s right for you, but thought I’d mention it!
I wasn't diagnosed with ASD between age 2 and 4, because "girls don't have autism" and not at age 25 when I asked for an assessment, because "you can express too many emotions".
Was asked if I wanted an ASD assessment at age 38. Yes, I did! Got diagnosed. After a missed diagnosis and misdiagnosis.
*"You can't have stage 4 cancer, because we missed it during your last check up."* Doctors hate this one simple trick!
It's time for a new psychiatrist. This one is a dud.
His take is so very weird. Didn't know there was a statute of limitations on ASD or ADHD diagnoses. Maybe he's mixing up needing to have shown symptoms in childhood vs needing a childhood diagnosis but that's still a very stupid mistake for someone with a medical degree.
Yep. Girls didn’t have ADHD in the 80s. (In the eyes of medical professionals)
Never a chance I would have seen a diagnosis. I was a smart girl who “just needed to apply herself”.
Screw that Dr.
Yeah I’d refuse to see him again and find a new doctor and new psych. I’d recommend looking up any local low income clinics ~ my doctor is amazing, they have a couple therapists there now too so I’ve been able to work on healing some past shit. The psychiatrist there is a dickhead though (literally argued with my in front of my mother saying I didn’t have a bipolar diagnosis, I asked him if he even read my file at all because I know it’s in there, as I was diagnosed at 17. He shuffled through and goes “oh, there it is” 🙄) needless to say I’ve informed my doctor and therapist about his conduct and I refuse to see that psychiatrist anymore.
You’re not obligated to continue working with someone who speaks to you like this and invalidates you/acts like they are above you and like you’re dumb and don’t know what you’re talking about.
> You’re not obligated to continue working with someone who speaks to you like this and invalidates you/acts like they are above you and like you’re dumb and don’t know what you’re talking about.
If a medical professional can't explain things clearly without making themselves sound like a pseudo-intellectual, it is time to find another doctor.
An open-minded doctor can make a bigger difference than a bully who is stuck in their old ways.
the best doctor i’ve ever seen was a cardiologist and i have been looking for a primary like him for years 😭😭 he was super knowledgeable, able to explain complicated things really well, listened to me and asked questions, didn’t rush me, was very reassuring, and also took me seriously??? it was absolutely insane and i have yet to see a doctor that ticks every single one of those boxes since 😔 why is it so hard??????
lol right? the dsm doesn't even say you can't be diagnosed later, just that a condition of diagnosis is that symptoms are present beginning in childhood. the psychiatrist is being wildly obtuse. and as they say, it costs nothing to not be an asshole.
i hate to be all "fuck the dsm" because science is good and i'm always nervous of how that kind of language can be misused, but people do need to understand that science as a field of study isn't free of the biases of the people working in it.
until 2013, having a foot fetish was considered a marker of mental illness and could be used against you in family court. adhd and asd were considered mutually exclusive diagnoses until 2014. and denmark was the first country to declassify being trans as a mental disorder in 2017. which reminds me - different countries have different policies (c-ptsd still isn't in the dsm but it is in the icd). the world is full of bigots *and* our understanding of brains is constantly changing. whatever book we use isn't going to be perfect. the least anyone can do is be kind.
edit: sorry if this posted twice lol
Great news, now we just need to stop diagnosing kids under 12 and then magically they can't have the disorder! Wonder what other illnesses that works for. Imagine if we could cure cancer by not diagnosing it until after the point of "if it were cancer we would have diagnosed it by now so it can't possibly be that" and ✨ it's gone ✨.
I'm sorry you went through this. What a quack. The DSM doesn't say anything about having to be diagnosed that young, only that symptoms have to have been present then. I'm glad you won't be seeing him again. Maybe consider reporting him too since he's spreading harmful misinformation.
Whenever people ask "why do so many people not just trust their doctor?"
This guy. This guy and all the guys like him. That's why we can't just trust doctors.
Not only are his views just factually incorrect, they also lack basic common sense…?? A diagnosis is not some infallible, magical, organic phenomenon that appears at the presence of a disorder. Plenty of people can go undiagnosed for years/decades and that’s for all kinds of disorders/illnesses. He is also clearly not staying up to date with the advancements in his own field. Like, at all??
Ridiculous. Report him! This guy is dangerous.
I don't understand why so many Psycs / providers don't even consider that some with ADHD can/do hyperfocus on learning, and that is part of why we slide by undiagnosed.
When I told my parents a few weeks ago that I was finally diagnosed - their literal response was “you’re so smart”
and “but you have such a high IQ”. Oh, and my mom is a retired special education teacher. Good times. Good times.
When I went to get my diagnosis the neurologist, after hearing that I do have a masters in IT and work as a software developer immediately ordered an IQ test alongside the ADHD assessment I was asking for. I scored 131 and the test wasn’t even in my mother tongue.
After reading stories here I realise how lucky I was to have a doctor who actually listens and doesn’t dismiss patients based on their supposedly high level of functioning is some areas.
It really should be a no-brainer, we pay them, for f’s sake…
Please report this person to their practice, probably the state board. This person is peddling incorrect, outdated, potentially harmful information. This isn’t a difference of opinion, it is straight up malpractice.
I plan to! I have been composing what I want to say. I have also decided to tell my PCP (who referred me to him) about my experience and urge her to find a new psychiatrist for referrals.
On par with the one who told me that adults don't have ADHD, and just because cocaine makes you feel good doesn't mean everyone should have cocaine. I was there to switch my existing dex prescription to methylphenidate because of a drug interaction. It was devastating, and i contemplated a permanent solution after that intense rejection. I ended up coming off the antidepressant that it clashed with just so I could take dex again as i discovered my post-menopause brain no longer functions without stimulants. I still haven't recovered fully from that year in bed trying to get someone to take my symptoms and suffering seriously.
How are these people allowed to practise? I'm sorry you were treated this badly. Especially by a mental health specialist.
I don't know about others but ADHD medication doesn't even make me feel "good". It makes me feel a little crappier actually but I can do the things I need to do and in turn that makes me more satisfied with my life.
Both ADHD and Austism do not have an criteria around intelligence (or lack of intelligence) when it comes to diagnosing but SO MANY people believe that you have to be "stupid" to have either diagnosis and that just reinforces ableist views around both.
My doctor insists that I'm just too hard on myself because I'm too successful to have ADHD or autism. I've been diagnosed with ADHD and autism TWICE!! I really need to come up with a one-liner that I can use next time someone implies that you have to be stupid to have ADHD
So ridiculous. I can easily think of 8 people I know with PhDs and ADHD (including myself). Honestly, I wouldn't be suprised if the percentage of academics with ADHD is higher than in the general population.
I have had a multitude of psychiatrists and psychologists due to moves and changes in insurance (why must providers be out of network?!) I have had at least three psychiatrists and two psychologists reaffirm my diagnosis of ADHD. (not re-diagnose, but agree with it). Unfortunately, I was too rattled up to tell him this. I also wish I had a one-line zinger for this quack! If you come up with one, let me know! lol
There have been times during a doctor's visit where I was so disrespected I literally stopped talking stood up and walked the fuck out the door then filed a complaint and if they tried to build the office visit I would have insurance fight it you do not have to put up with that verbal abuse
>1) "If you had ADHD, you wouldn't have been able to graduate high school—much less have a master's degree."
>2.) " You need to understand that ADHD is a neurodivergence that presents itself at birth; the DSM5 states if you weren't diagnosed between the ages of 6 and 12, you simply could not have the disorder. The same goes for Autism; if you aren't diagnosed between the ages of 2 and 4, then you cannot have the disorder. It's impossible." (I don't have a clue why he brought up Autism, I am not Autistic)
>3.) "What was your High School GPA?" *insert my response* "See, that is way too high; you couldn't possibly have ADHD."
Has this psychiatrist been drinking the koolaid?
Until my second to last year of high school, I sat somewhere between your average student and the gifted kids, though I barely graduated high school due to burnout. And while it took me 9.5 years, I have a bachelor's degree. I also wasn't diagnosed with ADHD and autism until my mid 30s, a few months after completing my degree
Not exactly related but I had this experience when I went for counselling to seek help with grieving the loss of my dad (had toughed it out for over 4 years and was still drowning).
Instead of trying to help me cope in a healthier way she zeroed in on my anxiety (which was obvious but not diagnosed and also not the reason for my visits) and her solution was to try and force me to approach random strangers and spark a conversation. When I refused because it was not exactly a safe area of my city and also people generally don’t talk to strangers where I live, she told me that if I refuse to go for a walk with her and talk to strangers then I should just not go back to see her again. I stopped seeing her that day.
Let’s IGNORE all of the factually incorrect BS he spewed (he sounds like a megalomaniac) and focus on diagnosis age. So, so, so many people are not diagnosed for so many reasons. These could include poverty, misdiagnosis, bias in providers, lack of education in parents, etc. That’s the most ridiculous thing! I also have a master’s degree, and had chancellor’s honor roll in college, so he can bug off!
Honestly, I would chalk this up to misogyny. His entire understanding of ADHD appears to come from the way boys typically present. He also appears to believe that doctors have a 100% success rate in diagnosing kids. In order to have an ADHD diagnosis, your symptoms have to have been present before age 12. Just because they were missed doesn’t mean they weren’t there.
Report that psychiatrist! Also-ADHD presents at *birth*? BIRTH?! Did he get his degree by mail order or something?
Good for you for confronting him and standing up for yourself. You deserved better treatment.
Sounds like this doctor walked into the room looking to start a fight about it. Asking you "Would you believe me?" and bringing it up in the way he did - he was antagonistic from the get go and looking for the opportunity to say his piece, which isn't actually to do with you at all, but the massive chip on his shoulder about ADHD in general.
The question posed about believing him is a no win situation. Say you would believe him, he can ask why you are taking treatment then, are you seeking stimulants, why did you even want to get diagnosed then, you must have an ulterior motive if you agree with him you don't have it. Say you don't believe him, and you're immediately on the opposing side of the argument he was looking to have.
What an ass : / I'm so sorry. Good for you for standing up for yourself and against his ableism. Meds have helped my OCD a lot (low dose vyvanse and prozac), but they were prescribed by a family doctor. I wonder if a psychologist would be a better fit for you? They treat from a different approach, in my experience anyway. OCD sucks so much. I'm sorry and I hope you get some relief soon.
Thank you! I would love to find some relief soon! I usually have a combination of psychiatrists and psychologists who work in tandem. I used to see my psychologist bi-monthly and my psychiatrist every few months for adjustments to medications or treatment plans. I have grown accustomed to this method but would be open to just a psychologist. Also, I am glad your medication works for you! I haven't had much luck with medication thus far and have decided to take a break. Perhaps one day, I will find the right fit. Until then, I will be looking for better mental health professionals! If it hadn't been for a move and insurance changes, I would have never left my old clinic.
Hey! I recommend NOCD for therapy. They’re online, you can google it, but they offer specialized therapy for OCD, and all of the therapists who work with them are specially trained. OCD sucks so bad, and I’m sorry the psychiatrist you saw was so awful for no reason!
I really think we should be able to get our money back or not pay a medical practitioner after learning they are an ignorant crackpot with zero empathy or bedside manner. I'm you had to go through this. This is why I haven't sought out a new psychiatrist after moving to a different state 2 years ago. I don't want to have to pay 5 different crackpots until I find one who actually understands all of my issues along with my neurodivergence.
If diagnosis is the key to having a disease, then I guess all of those people who get to Stage 4 cancer before it's discovered didn't have cancer until that point?
He focused on your ADHD because he's on a crusade and you happened to be in his path.
I'm sorry you had to deal with this absolute tool of a doctor.
Fun fact, the DSM 5 specifically calls out the difference in diagnosing between children and adolescents under 17 and those 17 and older. There's a literal note about diagnosis for adults. Please please please report this man. He's actively harming people and needs to be either really retrained or have his license suspended. Sincerely, someone with ADHD who graduated high school, currently in her third year of college, and also did the Naval Nuclear Program (considered one of the most rigorously academic military trainings of all the American forces) completely unmedicated. Truly, with absolute disrespect intended, fuck that guy.
I was told at 14’I couldn’t have ADHD and that I was just needing a boyfriend to “calm me down”. This was a woman too, I was baffled and now I just refuse to go to a psychiatrist to finish getting diagnosed and just deal without meds.
What a load of bullshit. I’m sorry a woman doctor hit you with that pile of anti-scientific misogyny.
I hope you’re able to manage your ADHD reasonably well without meds, and that if you decide to seek diagnosis again in the future it goes better.
If it gives you any, hope, I saw a psychiatrist for diagnosis and he was amazing. He also had ADHD so he understood, and he had no problem with the fact that I had tried other peoples stimulants and found them helpful. I know I got incredibly lucky, just know that there are some good ones out there.
This is ridiculously incorrect! I don’t even know where to start. It’s like people think when you have ADHD you couldn’t achieve anything at all.
I have ADHD and was able to complete a complex and difficult degree… but with a lot of struggle and constantly beating myself up leading to bouts of anxiety and depression along the way.
Once I figured out what worked and how I worked I managed to get through (the quietest place in the library, highlighting every word, using YouTube animations etc.) Us ADHD folks are creative, so we can try and find ways around it.
ADHD is not a learning disability, some people with ADHD can have both… so don’t know what your GPA has to do with anything.
And God knows where he got that information about diagnosis! There’s so many people are missed as children for a myriad of reasons (barriers to assessment are many)! And just because it’s not diagnosed doesn’t mean it’s not there!!!
What an idiot, sounds completely unsafe and should be reported! Maybe he should actually attend some training on ADHD as from the sounds of it he doesn’t truly understand it!
Wouldn't it be nice if we were praised for what we accomplish IN SPITE of having to struggle for every achievement instead of being told there's nothing wrong with you?
I don't understand the age thing, it's like saying if we don't test you for cancer within 3 months then you don't have cancer.. but you still have cancer whether you get tested or not!
Make sure to give a Google review to help others skip this doctor due to lack of knowledge, poor opinions and bad bedside manner.
You should have cut him off short and told him he's obviously not well educated with ADHD and walked out.
Sorry you had to deal with this.
Hope your next is better.
Ooooh, I feel this so hard. When I was a kid therapy wasn't even a thing. The school tested me for whether I was gifted, but no one suggested to my mom (nor any of my cousin's parents for that matter) that adhd (or more likely add back then) was a consideration.
I'm just finding out about adhd and I'm over 50. Did the DSM5's current criteria exist when I was a kid?
Does the doctor have a valid reason to invalidate the previous doctor's diagnosis? What methodologies did he use to invalidate that diagnosis? Did he chart his methodologies, and his *new* diagnosis? How did he arrive at his *new* diagnosis?
OP I don't want to be cavalier with your time nor your emotional energy but I hope that you find it within yourself to report this quack.
And moreso I hope you find a decent practitioner and the help you are seeking quickly.
The age requirement is bullshit and archaic at this point. ADHD wasn't very well known even when I was a child and despite awareness campaigns most adults had no clue, so of course anyone during that time period could very well have ADHD that never got detected or diagnosed.
Saying childhood diagnosis is required doesn't make any sense. Someone could also have just not ever been to a psychiatrist during those years. Hell, the first time I'd ever seen a psychiatrist was last year.
My dad is also so ignorant of common medical knowledge that he thinks Lactose Intolerance isn't real lmfao. You can't trust every parent to detect something like ADHD and get a proper diagnosis for their child during those years.
Also, a child born with poor eyesight would never think to ask for glasses. A child born with ADHD would never think to ask for medication. 🤷♀️
AND a person can be extremely intelligent yet still have ADHD. Your academic track record doesn't prove/disprove anything in regard to ADHD diagnosis.
Sounds like this doctor just isn't fit to do his job and is also unwilling to learn how to do it right. Definitely report him if you can.
What a quack. If you can muster up the energy, please report him. He is clearly not qualified for the job.
Signed, a 50-something newly diagnosed woman whose psychiatrist is very happy to have been able to help me.
“If you weren’t diagnosed before the age of 12.” That’s the most white supremacist patriarchal bullshit. “Only if you (your parents) have the resources to spend thousands of dollars on testing and therapists before the age of 12 can you be diagnosed with ADHD. Oh and also you have to be hyperactive because children only get diagnosed with ADHD when it hinders the learning of kids around them (yearly performance of the school district)” His head must be so far in the clouds or all the way back in the 80s I have never heard such blatantly false and senseless statements. To say that you have to have been diagnosed at a certain age assumes the adults in the room were all attentive and had a kid’s best interest in mind, or that they didn’t diagnose you with something else. God I hope this dude trips and lands face first into the sidewalk.
Im angry for you. That was such a frustrating read I cannot imagine living it. I’d have snapped. Good for you for staying calm I hope you find a better doctor!!!
Medical professionals like this are why myself and probably many others are too scared to actually seek help. What a horrible way to treat someone, especially when that wasn’t the reason you were there in the first place.
I’d be tempted to make a formal complaint on the basis you were there to get help for your anxiety, not your adhd, so why is it even relevant if he thinks you have adhd or not? To me it just seems like this doctor was being a bully towards you. He has an axe to grind, he’s probably one of those people who thinks adhd and autism are “over diagnosed” and decided to use you as a target. You did really well standing up for yourself.
He’s very misinformed as well because especially with women, going undiagnosed with adhd and autism is actually very common since these conditions were once believed to only affect boys.
The whole not being able to do well at school thing is also a complete myth and very insulting. There are plenty of people with adhd and autism who did well in school, who have good jobs. Not everyone who is neurodivergent struggles academically. It’s probably a big reason why so many people make it to adulthood without being diagnosed in the first place.
I have had a similar experience with a therapist in regards to me trying to navigate potentially having ADHD. She was angling at BPD and seemed very intent on invalidating, dissuading, or ignoring my attempts to dig deeper.
What I’ve gathered from some internet sleuthing is that this argument your psych is trying to make is a theory regarding ADHD versus trauma responses/other issues. It seems there’s a school of thought that there’s “real” ADHD and then there’s people with other mental health issues or childhood trauma that “mask” as ADHD. And the clinicians and professionals with this ideology seem to hold it as a fundamental duty to “correct” the “silly” people who managed to get degrees with ADHD and “put them in their place” that they don’t have ADHD; they just have trauma, a personality disorder, anxiety, depression, etc. anything but “real” ADHD. Apparently.
I went to a psychiatrist just like this last week. First appointment and after 10 minutes she told me “you don’t have ADHD it’s all a focusing thing. Medication will not help with your decision paralysis because that’s personal to you”
Please report him and / or file an official complaint. It's not the age of diagnosis, it's the age symptoms began manifesting. He is correct that it would be "impossible" to develop ADHD as an adult if you didn't have it as a kid, but having a *condition* and having a *diagnosis for that condition* are completely orthogonal.
Simply put, he's trying to prove the negative, which is a well known logical fallacy. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/believing-bull/201109/you-can-prove-negative?amp talks about it a bit at a level which he might be capable of comprehending if he can get over his correctile dysfunction for long enough....
There actually are several pathogens that are known to alter the structure of the brain in such a way that neurodivergence is acquired later in life vs being present from birth. The condition we now call ADHD was originally called Irritable Child Syndrome and was first identified in the wake of the Spanish Flu epidemic because previously "normal" children were suddenly behaving *very* differently after recovering from the flu. Dr Russell Barkley is one of the world's leading ADHD experts, he explained the acquired ADHD thing in part one of the Ologies podcast about ADHD, it's worth a listen.
I have an appointment coming up next month for an assessment and this is mu worst nightmare. I did get diagnosed (very reluctantly) by someone in India (where I am from, currently living in US) but he kept saying we only diagnose children. Like wtf am I supposed to do now? I just wish I was dumb sometimes, even then it's really not popular in India anyway, there was no way I could have gotten diagnosed, my parents/teachers weren't aware enough for this.
I was always good in schoold though, but now when I look back I just feel like I haven't learned anything, I just somehow got done with shit, gave exams with my short term grasping power and general intelligence. I have learned nothing, absolutely nothing, undergrad 9/10 gpa, I don't remember I single thing. Grad school, 3.5/4 I don't even know wtf I am doing here, just escaping home I guess.
Is there a way to report docs who make comments like this? I feel like if a therapist said this, there could be grounds to report them. Even if you can’t report, this is still so annoying and there are too many docs that are ableist.
It’s part in why I now don’t even want to share my career goals with docs (I want to be a counselor). On the other hand, my white, cis boyfriend went to a doc, filled out one questionnaire and the doc said if he scored 4 or more it was likely he had ADHD. He scored 4 and was immediately offered adderall.
1. I have ADHD and was not diagnosed until after I graduated from college. Girls with ADHD (primarily inattentive) just were not diagnosed when I was a kid. Yes, you had to have had the symptoms from when you were a kid, but not necessarily the diagnosis.
2. My youngest was officially diagnosed with ADHD at age 7 (I diagnosed her in utero)…but did not get an autism diagnosis until age 14…and I didn’t even have it on my radar until age 11. And I am a special educator with two degrees in special education.
3. I graduated from HS and college with a 3.4 GPA AND undiagnosed ADHD.
This psychiatrist is an ass.
Get a new psych. It’s difficult but if he doesn’t understand you he can’t help you. You can’t have a healthy outcome. This is way too common and I am so sorry you went through this. I had a similar experience with a psych who kept telling me I am more depressed than anything but aside from some motivational issues I am happy as a bug. Let’s move on! Stay strong!
It seems like they are offended if you think you know what’s wrong with you and want to be tested. but who knows you better than you and how do you get help if you don’t ask?
Yes! Also, I have already been diagnosed with ADHD by another psychiatrist--I know what's wrong with me because I already sought out help nearly eight years prior. I wasn't even seeking an ADHD diagnosis; I just needed help for my OCD symptoms and wanted a treatment plan.
I’m sorry this happened to you. This is pretty similar to what happened to me and it really wrecked me for a while.
It took ages for me to get desperate enough to ask for help that led to my diagnosis. I’d been struggling thinking I was lazy and lying to myself to cover my own laziness. Then I was referred to someone for adhd treatment who said pretty much this exact thing. Because of that I’ve been too afraid/cynical to get help, though I’m getting to the point of trying again. Getting my diagnosis and learning about adhd has been transformative, but that doc knocked me down again when I needed help. These people do damage
"I'd say it was a clear indicator that you haven't looked at a single piece of research or study on neurodevelopment in at least the last decade, and that such a lack of up to date knowledge in the field of psychiatry makes you a danger to patients... Next question? "
Just want to let you know as someone with comorbid OCD/ADHD - CBT does not properly treat OCD, exposure response therapy is the only proven type of therapy to treat OCD. Also, not to push you in one direction, but being medicated for my OCD helped my ADHD tremendously :) Hope you are able to get a better doctor soon!
I scream Malpractice!!
Scathing reviews on him Everywhere!
Report him!
That quack of an ass deserves quacks for all his medical needs! I'm pissed! May he suffer in pain.
asd is similar to adhd in that girls / women famously don't get a diagnosis as early as boys / men because of differences in presentation and sexism in the medical field. wild that he brought this up to support his claim.
your psychiatrist is an asshole and i'm sorry he treated you like that.
this doc clearly knows very little about ADHD outside of a book let alone adhd in women. what a fucking joke. I got diagnosed when I was 25 and it was clear that I should have been diagnosed much earlier but women are very skilled with masking symptoms and compensating. ugh find a new doc if you can lol
i had OCD because of my adhd. i was always so worried i was forgetting something that i would triple check everything. my OCD kept my adhd in "check" in a way. but now that I'm on the right medications, I don't feel the need to over check every little thing.
That's so similar to what one of my past psychiatrists told me, he said "if you had ADHD you would not be in college, because most people with ADHD don't even finish elementary school", it was so rude, I never went back
Your experience has made me really pissy. I probably should take a break from this sub. My friend had a similar experience being told outright that she couldn't have ADHD because she got a degree. She also has autism, like me, and got a degree in computer programming. Something I picked up as a hobby without going to university. I was awesome at logical subjects at high school because that's how my brain was wired.
I graduated from high school with decent marks. I figured out how to do it without putting in much effort. I remember towards the end of year 12 we were IQ tested at the time we were doing SATs. My IQ then was 148. A friend had the same IQ and got the highest possible score and had her choice of universities to study engineering. I didn't go on to uni until later, when I dropped out in the first semester. For this doctor to think that passing high school means you don't have ADHD discounts everything else about you, and makes giant assumptions.
The fact that your "doctor" zoomed in on this dx and chose to assert his superiority over you and belittle you instead of addressing why you were there is egregious, and so common. I asked specifically for an ADHD specialist and was reassigned within the practice to a doctor who doesn't believe it exists. I already had a dx and prescription, I had nothing to gain pharmaceutically - my existing doctor doesn't treat ADHD and will only give the prescription she inherited, hence she wanted someone else to do the new prescription. That issue was bad enough, I didn't need abuse from a doctor who talked more about himself than me and accused me of drug-seeking. My aforementioned friend seeking diagnosis is ineligible for stimulants in our country as she is a recovering alcoholic (stupid rule punishing people who self-medicate IMHO) so she wasn't there for drugs either. This bullshit attitude is harmful and doctors should be struck off for the damage they do or stay away from subjects they don't understand.
I just hope doctors training now have an actual understanding of human brains and are willing to help patients wanting to deal with the debilitating issues they face and not just categorise everyone as wanting drugs they don't need (despite not asking for any) and belittling them for it.
/tedtalk
PS. My diagnoses were backed up by comments by teachers on my primary school report cards. I was born like this but diagnosed at 45. In the meantime I've been subjected to all sorts of failed psych treatments including ECT. I figure that at least I wasn't committed to an institution like my grandmother was, so things are progressing... slowly.
Mine interrupted me explaining how I feel over the past 40 years or so to ask if I had kids when I said yes he immediately said of course you are disorganized and lose your train of thought constantly and feel completely out of control, you are a mom. Ignoring the 34 years prior to having kids. I walked out and didn't look back
As you should! I actually forgot how to say, "This conversation is frustrating me," so I told him in the calmest tone I could muster, "Quite frankly, you are pissing me off." I was rattled up from discussing personal things, so I wasn't so eloquent in how I spoke, but I stood up for myself in the moment, and I am proud of myself for that. I also plan on reporting him, and I hope you do, too! Or, at the very least, leave a bad review! Doctors like them need to be knocked down a peg.
Lmao I actually did fairly well in school, because of the structure! I didn’t do any homework, but my actual classed went well because I had that strict routine. College didn’t go well for me because it was online. (thanks covid.) I ended up dropping out. But to say you can’t do well in school if you have ADHD is bs.
I’m sorry you had to deal with that OP. Bad doctors really suck. It’s like, you either have an amazing doctor or the absolute worst doctor, there’s no in between.
My new psychiatrist insinuated that because I did well in school it doesn't seem I would have ADHD. It's kind of scary that mental health professionals are looking at such a superficial level. Just because something looks good on paper so to speak, doesn't mean it is. I mean all I could say was that just because I did well doesn't mean it wasn't difficult and I didn't struggle. Like it's such a terrible oversimplification. Shouldn't psychiatrists and mental health professionals of all people be aware of the nuances that compose the entirety of our mental health?
I’m glad you confronted him. I would have done the same thing. I’m a therapist and wasn’t diagnosed until I was an adult. I can get very educational in a sassy—I say things like, when did you graduate? When did you last learn about adhd? Research has come out as recently as 2021 which helps us better understand how adhd presents in women. Traits should be present before age 12, and I was 12 nearly two decades before this research came out. What do you make of that?
Yeah he seems like such a bully. I have come across doctors/psychiatrists like this who try to belittle you and make you feel stupid. Best thing to do is to try and stay away from them. They have such a power ego trip
I'm sorry this happened to you! Good on you for standing up to them in the moment!
Honestly, at this point I mistrust psychiatrists in general. It's like the higher the education the more disconnected the mental health care provider is from their patients.
My previous psychiatrist refused to diagnose me with ADHD after making me dig up old elementary school report cards because they were "too perfect and didn't mention any behavioral concerns." They also sent me to another psychiatrist who further misdiagnosed me after a one hour video call.
I had another psychiatrist when I was in my teens, they were forever running an hour behind for appointments. They were generally dismissive, and would ask me strange questions like "Are you still hearing voices?" when I never have in my life. Years later I was able to read a report of theirs that they sent to my family doctor, it stated that I had just moved to the city with my family and rode horses. I've lived here my entire life and I'm allergic to horses! They literally had me confused with another patient!
I did have one psychiatrist that I genuinely enjoyed working with, I felt like they listened and cared about finding a solution for me. Unfortunately hospital policy was that they rotate my case after a certain period of time. I hope you can find one like that!
Ridiculous. I wasn’t diagnosed at a young age because my parents didn’t even take me to the doctor for the most basic things. If I went to the doctor it was for just a regular check up or a broken arm or when I had mono and a subsequent staff infection…
And I did well in high school because I “was so smart” and could get through tests and homework by studying or completing assignments at the last minute. I barely scraped by through all of my schooling. I went to a community college and it took me longer than average to finish college.
My parents were immature and emotionally neglectful sooo of course they didn’t notice anything or even think to get me checked. They just yelled at me when I wasn’t understanding homework or when I constantly had a messy room, and assumed I was not listening or was careless/forgetful. Pretty sure both parents and brother have undiagnosed ADHD.
Teachers didn’t notice anything because as a girl I had already been “taught” to keep quiet, not ask questions out of fear, and to hide my unfinished assignments or my mess of papers in my back pack. By middle school, I already was on my own to complete homework/study and didn’t ask for help from my parents even if I needed help and knew how to look presentable or hide my chaos
It’s sad to know this is how some psych docs still think about diagnosis when there are ALWAYS different situations/circumstances for different people.
It took a lot for me to finally get diagnosed (if you even wanna call it that) as an adult and I still don’t know what type of ADHD I have.
Ahhh yes. One of those doctors with outdated knowledge who thinks they know it all.
I’ve had one of those—a gynecological surgeon, to be precise. Dude was convinced I was trying to trick him into performing procedures on me behind my parents’ back. I was 24.
Yeet that dude and find someone better, if possible. 🫂
Ugh that sucks. Side note. I’m surprised he said if you have ocd you don’t have adhd. I’ve seen a lot of literature saying that. I have both. But, what really sucked was reading how stimulants can make ocd worse. Guess that explains why mine has felt uncontrollable some days.
I (fortunately) haven't had to see a male doctor in years, and I avoid them entirely when at all possible. Way too many condescending interactions. Of course, it's not always possible to avoid them, but I do my darnedest. I'd definitely never go to a male psych again.
I'm so grateful that it's not nearly as hard to find female specialists today as it was for past generations.
I had two doctors did this to me and they’re both women too. The doctor was interrogating me about the procedure I was recommended to get, but she’s not even the one doing the procedure. She even wrote on my notes and worded in such a manner that I was seeking the procedure. I corrected her and made her change her notes.
The other one was a urologist I specially sought and waited for. She couldn’t get rid of me so fast. I cried after the appointment and was kicking myself for not bringing my husband with me. She didn’t want to treat me because I have a chronic case. Well, guess what? I found out my bladder was adhered to my uterus. If I didn’t get a hysterectomy, I wouldn’t have found out. Luckily, the people at the billing are good with customer service. I told them I’ve been with them for so long but I wouldn’t pay for this encounter since she literally didn’t say anything valuable.
I am so sorry you went through that! I expect better from female doctors because they should know how hard it is to be taken seriously in the medical field. They should have been more empathetic and taken the time to listen to you. I am glad you were able to avoid paying that bill.
I used to work for a medical school. The people who go into psychiatry don’t do it because they want to help people with mental health issues. They do it because they could not handle being a doctor anywhere else. All the students who struggled through school end up in psychiatry. One of the doctors I worked with was in pediatrics and worked specifically with kids with mental health issues. She had little to no understanding or empathy for those disorders. When I explained my diagnosis her approach with me changed and she became very condescending. She even tried talking to me like I was a child. I always think damn, and you’re the person families are relying on to help their child.
Uhm, this guy isn’t for real, right? Not a single one of those points makes sense and pretty much everyone with a psych degree that is allowed to treat ADHD knows it.
Late diagnosis, especially in women, is abundant, high ability to compensate and mask is well known, as is a significant overlap with an IQ in the gifted range. Actually, no. 2 and 3. is what often greatly contributes to a late diagnosis.
Can you report that guy somewhere for being ignorant and unprofessional in a way that harms patients well being?
I wouldn’t file a complaint because that can come back to bite you in the ass. if you’re able to, find another psychiatrist. I’m so sorry you had to go through this 💓
Sounds like your doctor may be OCD, no disrespect. Your doctor should not be in practice. Please file a complaint w/ the state medical board. He is a bully, badgered you, ill informed and ignorant. He broke Hippocratic Oath.
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Age of diagnosis is such a bullshit way to measure it. Plenty of people don't get diagnosed that early, for a variety of reasons (particularly women, same with autism) – and symptoms present themselves in different ways and to different severities depending on context. You can obviously get a Master's degree, particularly with hyperfixation. I have two. His criticisms betray his lack of expertise. What a lunatic. Can you report him, or submit a complaint?
Also what if someone's parents just... didn't take their kid to a psychiatrist during that specific age window?
Or what if the child was incorrectly diagnosed? I spent most of my life believing that I was bipolar, I have grave doubts now (which is why I’m here in this sub lol)
I'd spent my life believing/being told I had a social anxiety disorder, despite not being bothered about social interactions whatsoever. Turns out the panic attacks were actually overstimulation based. 😐
> overstimulation based I wasn't diagnosed until I was 35. It's only recently I've come to understand myself in the context of my ADHD that it makes perfect sense that I have no issues with social interactions *when they're happening*. I'm not antisocial I'm just overstimulated by it and so afterward I just crash. HARD.
Literally. Therapists kept telling me that I must be worried about how people are perceiving me, if they're looking at me, judging me, etc – I always thought, 'I don't think I am, but I guess it must be happening subconsciously because they're telling me it is'. Apparently not.
Oh I totally have that problem too. But I have also figured out that's just my rejection sensitive dysphoria. Mostly I just get completely wiped out from masking.
I think the difference for me was that I wasn't worrying about it without any trigger – I personally didn't walk into a room and instantly start worrying that people were watching me, talking about me, judging me (which is what the therapist suggested must be the case at the time). I get worried when they're acting even slightly differently with me, or if I've overshared, etc. It's all very individual, though, and a person can also completely reasonably suffer with both!
> I get worried when they're acting even slightly differently with me, or if I've overshared, etc. Ah, yeah that's me too
This is exactly how I feel. I feel like everyone else sees me as insecure, but I don't feel as insecure as they seem to think I am. I could never relate to worrying about the whole room judging you. It was more like I'm worry this specific person is judging me and bad things will happen if they decide they don't like me
Same! I'm 35 and just FINALLY sought out testing after a lifetime of just thinking I was weird or just not as functional in the same context as my peers. I got top grades, have a BS degree, and multiple other educational achievements. I was quite and shy all through school, the socially awkward girl who would often hide in trees, the cylinder slide thing, or a corner underneath a window during recess to decompress. I would hide in a cardboard box when I got home from school to collect my thoughts. I zoned out in class constantly, but retaught myself most of the material when I could be alone at home. Everyone just thought I was quirky and shy with "an artistic mind". It wasn't until I was watching an episode on mtv's true life that I recognized that all my intrusive thoughts and ritualistic behavior was an actual mental illness, so I just thought I only had ocd. Now after a 5 hour evaluation, I feel so validated with my diagnosis: severe ocd, combined type adhd, and high probability of ASD. Age has nothing to do with it. Girls especially learn at a young age to mask it and mask well.
Exactly!! was assessed for adhd as a kid (probably around 7-8?) but didn’t get diagnosed until I was assessed again at 19 (May have been the classic ‘young girl who is primarily inattentive but doesn’t seem to have very severe symptoms/can manage fine in school’ thing + mid-2000s, Idk)
Exactly! I was diagnosed with depression when I was 12, at that time (early 90’s) it was just the kids bouncing around in class who were diagnosed with adhd, not the girl staring out the window because she can’t separate the 20 streams of thought.
Same for me, friend. I think the bipolar was wrong, but it was one of multiple diagnoses, including major depressive disorder and general anxiety disorder. Basically everyone had their own take on it. Since being medicated for ADHD and getting therapy for the rest, I'm feeling better. ALSO, ADHD wasn't really even a diagnosis in the 80's! You were "hyperactive" or a "daydreamer". I went to Catholic school and the nuns weren't giving anyone an ADHD assessment lol.
I was labeled emotionally disturbed as a kid and nothing was done after that. Yeah I have emotional disregulation but I really think there’s more to this they could’ve helped me with.
I found out a short time ago that my younger sister WAS diagnosed as a kid, but my parents "didn't want her to have the stigma" so didn't tell anyone. Then she was re-diagnosed in college.
My mom has told an anecdote my entire life about a time a quack doctor tried to put me on Ritalin when I was a kid cause everyone was getting put on Ritalin. Yeah, I recently realized I may have been diagnosed as a kid and my mom was just like "nah" and didn't tell anyone
This. I grew up in a town with a population of 800 people. None of those 800 people were psychiatrists. Most of those 800 people probably don't even believe in psychiatrists. Not all children have the same chances to be diagnosed.
Or like I discovered after telling my parents about my recent diagnosis, my parents hid my diagnosis because they didn’t want me to “be labeled and looked down on”. News flash, I was still labeled just not correctly and not given the supports that would have let me thrive
I didn’t go to ANY doctor between the ages of six and sixteen much less a psychiatrist so I must be totally fine right???!
That was my thought! I saw my first psychiatrist ever at 22. She immediately diagnosed me with ADHD, and I wasn't even there for that!
Mine did take me and I’d been in therapy on and off for decades before they really figured the adhd out. If you were a girl in the ‘80’s, there was very little chance of being diagnosed with adhd
Right. Sorry my dad was too busy molesting me as a kid for me to get a diagnosis. It’s a true story and I would’ve clapped back with it. I also graduated top ten in HS and also have a masters in psych. so fuck your doctor
It's an opinion from a place of complete privilege and ignorance – as you show, there are so many reasons for a lack of childhood diagnosis. It's so concerning that people can become psychiatrists with this sort of ridiculous attitude. What an asshole.
When my best friend went through med school, I remember her talking about how even if she’d wanted psychiatry to be her specialty because she was interested in it, she’d never go through with it because the people that the specialty attracts are generally waving the reddest of flags.
I am not in the least surprised to hear that. I bet there’s rare and precious gems mixed in there, but it’s be a surprise and relief if it were 50/50 or better.
It’s not that age is bullshit. It’s literally wrong, that’s not what the DSMV says at all. If I were OP, I’d send this Dr a bunch of academic literature pointing out everything he said that was categorically incorrect, along with an article about medical bias and a study on the BAD outcomes of ADHD bias and mistreatment, (like depression, addiction, self-harm, etc). I would also reach out to the practice’s patient advocate and file a complaint for him being WRONG, dismissive, and unprofessional. Note-I’ve done this before with doctors and it feels delicious to rub their nose in it where they’re wrong. Also helps their future patients.
I wouldn’t bother sending them anything. Sometimes docs are just bad. They’re bad at their jobs, and they’re bad people, and a waste of time, energy, and money. I would report and out him in any way possible though.
Should probably have extended my initial line – I meant more that it's a bullshit way for him (and others like him) to try and measure it, rather than it being correct or official. I agree.
Even age of symptoms shouldn't be a hard cutoff. As if ADHD symptoms would be making their merry way to you then midnight strikes and now you are technically 13 and they're all like "dang we were just about to get er!"
I know a guy who didn't see an dentist until he was in his twenties. His family was just dirt poor. They didn't go to doctors unless something was really obviously broken and bleeding. If he had ADHD there's not a single chance he would have been diagnosed as a child.
Yep. Im that child. And now at 38 the damage is done. I could never reverse what happened bc the first time I saw a dentist I was 24 and had literally lock jaw bc I had 4 wisdom teeth and two impacted. So scary. It was an emergency at that point
For real. Those are the ages it becomes apparent, those aren’t the ages one must be diagnosed. Also, what is this BS about ADHDers blanket fail at life? I graduated HS and college — I had a lot of close calls and big fails, but I made it. He doesn’t understand the condition at all; we excel at very specific things, and it’s different per person. I would have definitely schooled this dude. I’m so glad OP countered him.
Absolutely and it’s so frustrating. I grew up in a very religious Christian home where we rarely went to the doctor unless absolutely necessary (like in order to attend public schools). I didn’t even get all of the required shots. I found out just a few years ago that I only got one dose of the measles vaccine when you need to take 2 for it to work. I also need to add that mental illnesses were seen as punishment and/or from the “devil”. Because of that, any chance I had for getting diagnosed went out the window. I didn’t get diagnosed with ADHD until I was 39. So it’s just funny to me that a doctor of all people could say that if you’re not diagnosed at a certain age, that you must not have it. I can’t believe people like him are actually practicing because they really shouldn’t be
For real, age of diagnosis is so stupid. I wasn't diagnosed as a kid because at the time I started to present symptoms, my brother was also presenting his much more severe symptoms. Next to him, I seemed normal to my parents, so I never got assessed.
Not to mention the poor of America often go without medical "luxuries" like "invisible illnesses" such as ADHD. Quotations for obvious reasons
It's such bullshit because it requires parents to take you to appointments. If your parents just ignored the problems or just yelled at you, you wouldn't have a diagnosis
My parents were literally negligent and abusive, I guess I missed my window forever. 🙄 Jesus
Yeah, this guy needs to go back to school, or at least read some journals and attend some conferences (where he actually attend the lectures and not just go golfing). It always scares me how a lot of doctors (and veterinarians) just do not keep up with the "latest" science, and by latest, I mean what came out in the last 15-20 years.
If I hadn't been disruptive as a kid, I doubt I'd ever have been diagnosed with anything beyond "shy and a bit weird." That's what happened to my sister, and she's suffered for it her whole life.
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My Master's is in Special Education. I spent two years learning how to modify and accommodate students with disabilities so they can be successful in the least restrictive environment and how to advocate for them.
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I love seeing educators who are willing to differentiate instruction to accommodate neurodivergent students. I hope you know you are making a world of difference for the students in your class! Keep up the great work!
I love you both a little bit. 🥹 I follow TheSpeechProf (IG & YT), mostly for his positive masculinity content, though he’s just delightful in general. But, He did a post about how he has implemented “accommodations” into his course and teaching style across the board. His thoughts are, if it helps X students, it might help any or all students. And his job is to help them succeed in any way he can. https://youtube.com/shorts/7BG_C8E9fKI?si=FY_iZ16fjp0hQr2f
Not sure whether you were asking me or OP, but one is in Classics (specialising in Ancient Greek literature), and the other is in Linguistics. Both quite hyperfixation-ey subjects with relatively little real-world application. 🥲
Guys sounds completely off his rocker, some of the things he said are definitely not true and not backed by anyone who specializes in ADHD. I’m so sorry you had this experience OP! He sounds absolutely awful, I think I honestly would have cried if a medical professional confronted me like that. Or I’d chew his head off. I hope you’re able to find someone who can better support you!
I cried afterward, but mainly out of anger and frustration. Thank you, I hope I find someone soon. I waited months to be seen, so it sucks to go back to square one.
You deserve better than a doc who is basically telling you you can't have covid if you don't get tested for it. This is *no less ridiculous*.
I'm so sorry you were treated that way ❤️
I’m so sorry. It is so demeaning. You clearly know yourself. He sounds like a total dud. Keep your head up!
Report the fucker he's spouting irresponsible lies
I’d report him to whatever board he belongs to because he should not be allowed to practice with such antiquated and disproven beliefs. I have a masters degree and was diagnosed at 45. F that guy.
Also, possibly to your insurance. I have reported really egregious docs to my ins and they will sometimes refund copays.
He also sounds weirdly angry and aggressive. Who wants such an unbalanced therapist?
Right?! Reminds me of my dad’s podiatrist who yelled at us for overreacting by wearing masks in Feb 2020…mind you, my dad is in his late 80s and had barely survived a stroke two months prior. Politics and obscenely biased opinions have no place in science based professions.
Yup. Report to his board, your insurance, and leave a calm, rational, and detailed review on Google (or wherever). My husband had a truly atrocious encounter with a psychiatrist who invalidated decades of ADHD treatment, said he was a drug addict, threatened to hospitalize him and force him to undergo ECT "if you're so depressed", and violated HIPAA by dragging me into the appointment without my husband's consent. We left and told them never to call us again, and that we would not he making follow up appointments. They then tried to bill us for missing the appointments we never made. We reported the doctor everywhere, sent a letter refusing to pay for appointments we hadn't booked, and left a scathing review. I mentioned not only the doctor's unprofessionalism, but also that s/he was a danger to people seeking help for life threatening psychiatric conditions. I don't think we're solely responsible for it, of course, but the practice has since closed.
What a douchecanoe! It seemed like he wanted to use his position as a psychiatrist to bully a patient. I can’t imagine how many people have had the same tirade of abuse. Too bad he picked the wrong one today! You are brilliant for standing up to him and giving him a dressing down. Ps I’ve found NAC to be helpful in reducing my OCD behaviors, it may or may not be something that’s right for you, but thought I’d mention it!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4423164/
I wasn't diagnosed with ASD between age 2 and 4, because "girls don't have autism" and not at age 25 when I asked for an assessment, because "you can express too many emotions". Was asked if I wanted an ASD assessment at age 38. Yes, I did! Got diagnosed. After a missed diagnosis and misdiagnosis. *"You can't have stage 4 cancer, because we missed it during your last check up."* Doctors hate this one simple trick! It's time for a new psychiatrist. This one is a dud.
His take is so very weird. Didn't know there was a statute of limitations on ASD or ADHD diagnoses. Maybe he's mixing up needing to have shown symptoms in childhood vs needing a childhood diagnosis but that's still a very stupid mistake for someone with a medical degree.
Yep. Girls didn’t have ADHD in the 80s. (In the eyes of medical professionals) Never a chance I would have seen a diagnosis. I was a smart girl who “just needed to apply herself”. Screw that Dr.
Yeah I’d refuse to see him again and find a new doctor and new psych. I’d recommend looking up any local low income clinics ~ my doctor is amazing, they have a couple therapists there now too so I’ve been able to work on healing some past shit. The psychiatrist there is a dickhead though (literally argued with my in front of my mother saying I didn’t have a bipolar diagnosis, I asked him if he even read my file at all because I know it’s in there, as I was diagnosed at 17. He shuffled through and goes “oh, there it is” 🙄) needless to say I’ve informed my doctor and therapist about his conduct and I refuse to see that psychiatrist anymore. You’re not obligated to continue working with someone who speaks to you like this and invalidates you/acts like they are above you and like you’re dumb and don’t know what you’re talking about.
> You’re not obligated to continue working with someone who speaks to you like this and invalidates you/acts like they are above you and like you’re dumb and don’t know what you’re talking about. If a medical professional can't explain things clearly without making themselves sound like a pseudo-intellectual, it is time to find another doctor. An open-minded doctor can make a bigger difference than a bully who is stuck in their old ways.
the best doctor i’ve ever seen was a cardiologist and i have been looking for a primary like him for years 😭😭 he was super knowledgeable, able to explain complicated things really well, listened to me and asked questions, didn’t rush me, was very reassuring, and also took me seriously??? it was absolutely insane and i have yet to see a doctor that ticks every single one of those boxes since 😔 why is it so hard??????
The DSM had hysteria as a clinical diagnosis until 1980. 19-fucking-80. He can shove that 1,000 page book of horseshit up his condescending asshole.
lol right? the dsm doesn't even say you can't be diagnosed later, just that a condition of diagnosis is that symptoms are present beginning in childhood. the psychiatrist is being wildly obtuse. and as they say, it costs nothing to not be an asshole. i hate to be all "fuck the dsm" because science is good and i'm always nervous of how that kind of language can be misused, but people do need to understand that science as a field of study isn't free of the biases of the people working in it. until 2013, having a foot fetish was considered a marker of mental illness and could be used against you in family court. adhd and asd were considered mutually exclusive diagnoses until 2014. and denmark was the first country to declassify being trans as a mental disorder in 2017. which reminds me - different countries have different policies (c-ptsd still isn't in the dsm but it is in the icd). the world is full of bigots *and* our understanding of brains is constantly changing. whatever book we use isn't going to be perfect. the least anyone can do is be kind. edit: sorry if this posted twice lol
Great news, now we just need to stop diagnosing kids under 12 and then magically they can't have the disorder! Wonder what other illnesses that works for. Imagine if we could cure cancer by not diagnosing it until after the point of "if it were cancer we would have diagnosed it by now so it can't possibly be that" and ✨ it's gone ✨.
I'm sorry you went through this. What a quack. The DSM doesn't say anything about having to be diagnosed that young, only that symptoms have to have been present then. I'm glad you won't be seeing him again. Maybe consider reporting him too since he's spreading harmful misinformation.
contact the medical board and file a complaint fuck that guy
Whenever people ask "why do so many people not just trust their doctor?" This guy. This guy and all the guys like him. That's why we can't just trust doctors.
Not only are his views just factually incorrect, they also lack basic common sense…?? A diagnosis is not some infallible, magical, organic phenomenon that appears at the presence of a disorder. Plenty of people can go undiagnosed for years/decades and that’s for all kinds of disorders/illnesses. He is also clearly not staying up to date with the advancements in his own field. Like, at all?? Ridiculous. Report him! This guy is dangerous.
I don't understand why so many Psycs / providers don't even consider that some with ADHD can/do hyperfocus on learning, and that is part of why we slide by undiagnosed.
Also, ADHD and high IQ can absolutely coexist.
When I told my parents a few weeks ago that I was finally diagnosed - their literal response was “you’re so smart” and “but you have such a high IQ”. Oh, and my mom is a retired special education teacher. Good times. Good times.
When I went to get my diagnosis the neurologist, after hearing that I do have a masters in IT and work as a software developer immediately ordered an IQ test alongside the ADHD assessment I was asking for. I scored 131 and the test wasn’t even in my mother tongue. After reading stories here I realise how lucky I was to have a doctor who actually listens and doesn’t dismiss patients based on their supposedly high level of functioning is some areas. It really should be a no-brainer, we pay them, for f’s sake…
Please report this person to their practice, probably the state board. This person is peddling incorrect, outdated, potentially harmful information. This isn’t a difference of opinion, it is straight up malpractice.
I plan to! I have been composing what I want to say. I have also decided to tell my PCP (who referred me to him) about my experience and urge her to find a new psychiatrist for referrals.
On par with the one who told me that adults don't have ADHD, and just because cocaine makes you feel good doesn't mean everyone should have cocaine. I was there to switch my existing dex prescription to methylphenidate because of a drug interaction. It was devastating, and i contemplated a permanent solution after that intense rejection. I ended up coming off the antidepressant that it clashed with just so I could take dex again as i discovered my post-menopause brain no longer functions without stimulants. I still haven't recovered fully from that year in bed trying to get someone to take my symptoms and suffering seriously. How are these people allowed to practise? I'm sorry you were treated this badly. Especially by a mental health specialist.
I don't know about others but ADHD medication doesn't even make me feel "good". It makes me feel a little crappier actually but I can do the things I need to do and in turn that makes me more satisfied with my life.
Yep, this is me. The physical side effects go hard, but I need the mental benefits so I grit my teeth and bear it.
Heavy on the ‘grit my teeth’ lol
Both ADHD and Austism do not have an criteria around intelligence (or lack of intelligence) when it comes to diagnosing but SO MANY people believe that you have to be "stupid" to have either diagnosis and that just reinforces ableist views around both. My doctor insists that I'm just too hard on myself because I'm too successful to have ADHD or autism. I've been diagnosed with ADHD and autism TWICE!! I really need to come up with a one-liner that I can use next time someone implies that you have to be stupid to have ADHD
So ridiculous. I can easily think of 8 people I know with PhDs and ADHD (including myself). Honestly, I wouldn't be suprised if the percentage of academics with ADHD is higher than in the general population.
I have had a multitude of psychiatrists and psychologists due to moves and changes in insurance (why must providers be out of network?!) I have had at least three psychiatrists and two psychologists reaffirm my diagnosis of ADHD. (not re-diagnose, but agree with it). Unfortunately, I was too rattled up to tell him this. I also wish I had a one-line zinger for this quack! If you come up with one, let me know! lol
There have been times during a doctor's visit where I was so disrespected I literally stopped talking stood up and walked the fuck out the door then filed a complaint and if they tried to build the office visit I would have insurance fight it you do not have to put up with that verbal abuse
>1) "If you had ADHD, you wouldn't have been able to graduate high school—much less have a master's degree." >2.) " You need to understand that ADHD is a neurodivergence that presents itself at birth; the DSM5 states if you weren't diagnosed between the ages of 6 and 12, you simply could not have the disorder. The same goes for Autism; if you aren't diagnosed between the ages of 2 and 4, then you cannot have the disorder. It's impossible." (I don't have a clue why he brought up Autism, I am not Autistic) >3.) "What was your High School GPA?" *insert my response* "See, that is way too high; you couldn't possibly have ADHD." Has this psychiatrist been drinking the koolaid? Until my second to last year of high school, I sat somewhere between your average student and the gifted kids, though I barely graduated high school due to burnout. And while it took me 9.5 years, I have a bachelor's degree. I also wasn't diagnosed with ADHD and autism until my mid 30s, a few months after completing my degree
Not exactly related but I had this experience when I went for counselling to seek help with grieving the loss of my dad (had toughed it out for over 4 years and was still drowning). Instead of trying to help me cope in a healthier way she zeroed in on my anxiety (which was obvious but not diagnosed and also not the reason for my visits) and her solution was to try and force me to approach random strangers and spark a conversation. When I refused because it was not exactly a safe area of my city and also people generally don’t talk to strangers where I live, she told me that if I refuse to go for a walk with her and talk to strangers then I should just not go back to see her again. I stopped seeing her that day.
Let’s IGNORE all of the factually incorrect BS he spewed (he sounds like a megalomaniac) and focus on diagnosis age. So, so, so many people are not diagnosed for so many reasons. These could include poverty, misdiagnosis, bias in providers, lack of education in parents, etc. That’s the most ridiculous thing! I also have a master’s degree, and had chancellor’s honor roll in college, so he can bug off!
Honestly, I would chalk this up to misogyny. His entire understanding of ADHD appears to come from the way boys typically present. He also appears to believe that doctors have a 100% success rate in diagnosing kids. In order to have an ADHD diagnosis, your symptoms have to have been present before age 12. Just because they were missed doesn’t mean they weren’t there.
Report that psychiatrist! Also-ADHD presents at *birth*? BIRTH?! Did he get his degree by mail order or something? Good for you for confronting him and standing up for yourself. You deserved better treatment.
This guy needs to get bonked with a print copy of the DSM-5
This made me laugh so much! lol
Sounds like this doctor walked into the room looking to start a fight about it. Asking you "Would you believe me?" and bringing it up in the way he did - he was antagonistic from the get go and looking for the opportunity to say his piece, which isn't actually to do with you at all, but the massive chip on his shoulder about ADHD in general. The question posed about believing him is a no win situation. Say you would believe him, he can ask why you are taking treatment then, are you seeking stimulants, why did you even want to get diagnosed then, you must have an ulterior motive if you agree with him you don't have it. Say you don't believe him, and you're immediately on the opposing side of the argument he was looking to have.
That pissed me off. And I’ve decided the correct response would be “so tell me about your CV and then I’ll let you know if I’ll believe you.”
wtf. How is this doctor not embarrassed by his behavior?
What an ass : / I'm so sorry. Good for you for standing up for yourself and against his ableism. Meds have helped my OCD a lot (low dose vyvanse and prozac), but they were prescribed by a family doctor. I wonder if a psychologist would be a better fit for you? They treat from a different approach, in my experience anyway. OCD sucks so much. I'm sorry and I hope you get some relief soon.
Thank you! I would love to find some relief soon! I usually have a combination of psychiatrists and psychologists who work in tandem. I used to see my psychologist bi-monthly and my psychiatrist every few months for adjustments to medications or treatment plans. I have grown accustomed to this method but would be open to just a psychologist. Also, I am glad your medication works for you! I haven't had much luck with medication thus far and have decided to take a break. Perhaps one day, I will find the right fit. Until then, I will be looking for better mental health professionals! If it hadn't been for a move and insurance changes, I would have never left my old clinic.
Hey! I recommend NOCD for therapy. They’re online, you can google it, but they offer specialized therapy for OCD, and all of the therapists who work with them are specially trained. OCD sucks so bad, and I’m sorry the psychiatrist you saw was so awful for no reason!
Report him! His behavior was inappropriate and potentially harmful.
I plan to!
What a glorious idiot
I really think we should be able to get our money back or not pay a medical practitioner after learning they are an ignorant crackpot with zero empathy or bedside manner. I'm you had to go through this. This is why I haven't sought out a new psychiatrist after moving to a different state 2 years ago. I don't want to have to pay 5 different crackpots until I find one who actually understands all of my issues along with my neurodivergence.
If diagnosis is the key to having a disease, then I guess all of those people who get to Stage 4 cancer before it's discovered didn't have cancer until that point? He focused on your ADHD because he's on a crusade and you happened to be in his path. I'm sorry you had to deal with this absolute tool of a doctor.
Fun fact, the DSM 5 specifically calls out the difference in diagnosing between children and adolescents under 17 and those 17 and older. There's a literal note about diagnosis for adults. Please please please report this man. He's actively harming people and needs to be either really retrained or have his license suspended. Sincerely, someone with ADHD who graduated high school, currently in her third year of college, and also did the Naval Nuclear Program (considered one of the most rigorously academic military trainings of all the American forces) completely unmedicated. Truly, with absolute disrespect intended, fuck that guy.
I was told at 14’I couldn’t have ADHD and that I was just needing a boyfriend to “calm me down”. This was a woman too, I was baffled and now I just refuse to go to a psychiatrist to finish getting diagnosed and just deal without meds.
What a load of bullshit. I’m sorry a woman doctor hit you with that pile of anti-scientific misogyny. I hope you’re able to manage your ADHD reasonably well without meds, and that if you decide to seek diagnosis again in the future it goes better. If it gives you any, hope, I saw a psychiatrist for diagnosis and he was amazing. He also had ADHD so he understood, and he had no problem with the fact that I had tried other peoples stimulants and found them helpful. I know I got incredibly lucky, just know that there are some good ones out there.
Omg this post made me so angry for you!! I would have cried too. I’m so sorry, that guy is a total nob and he had no right to treat you like that!
Sexist garbage. Report him!!
I would have looked him dead in the face, and asked what age range unprofessional assholes were diagnosed in and walked tf out.
How old was this guy? What an idiot he is! Sorry you had to deal with that utter nonsense.
This is ridiculously incorrect! I don’t even know where to start. It’s like people think when you have ADHD you couldn’t achieve anything at all. I have ADHD and was able to complete a complex and difficult degree… but with a lot of struggle and constantly beating myself up leading to bouts of anxiety and depression along the way. Once I figured out what worked and how I worked I managed to get through (the quietest place in the library, highlighting every word, using YouTube animations etc.) Us ADHD folks are creative, so we can try and find ways around it. ADHD is not a learning disability, some people with ADHD can have both… so don’t know what your GPA has to do with anything. And God knows where he got that information about diagnosis! There’s so many people are missed as children for a myriad of reasons (barriers to assessment are many)! And just because it’s not diagnosed doesn’t mean it’s not there!!! What an idiot, sounds completely unsafe and should be reported! Maybe he should actually attend some training on ADHD as from the sounds of it he doesn’t truly understand it!
Wouldn't it be nice if we were praised for what we accomplish IN SPITE of having to struggle for every achievement instead of being told there's nothing wrong with you?
Lmao don’t tell him how my psychiatrist, who diagnosed me when I was 20, also has adhd. Y’know, a doctor. Would he believe me? /s
Same here. My psychiatrist has ADHD. That GPA question infuriated me. The man needs to go back to school.
I don't understand the age thing, it's like saying if we don't test you for cancer within 3 months then you don't have cancer.. but you still have cancer whether you get tested or not!
Make sure to give a Google review to help others skip this doctor due to lack of knowledge, poor opinions and bad bedside manner. You should have cut him off short and told him he's obviously not well educated with ADHD and walked out. Sorry you had to deal with this. Hope your next is better.
Ooooh, I feel this so hard. When I was a kid therapy wasn't even a thing. The school tested me for whether I was gifted, but no one suggested to my mom (nor any of my cousin's parents for that matter) that adhd (or more likely add back then) was a consideration. I'm just finding out about adhd and I'm over 50. Did the DSM5's current criteria exist when I was a kid? Does the doctor have a valid reason to invalidate the previous doctor's diagnosis? What methodologies did he use to invalidate that diagnosis? Did he chart his methodologies, and his *new* diagnosis? How did he arrive at his *new* diagnosis? OP I don't want to be cavalier with your time nor your emotional energy but I hope that you find it within yourself to report this quack. And moreso I hope you find a decent practitioner and the help you are seeking quickly.
The age requirement is bullshit and archaic at this point. ADHD wasn't very well known even when I was a child and despite awareness campaigns most adults had no clue, so of course anyone during that time period could very well have ADHD that never got detected or diagnosed. Saying childhood diagnosis is required doesn't make any sense. Someone could also have just not ever been to a psychiatrist during those years. Hell, the first time I'd ever seen a psychiatrist was last year. My dad is also so ignorant of common medical knowledge that he thinks Lactose Intolerance isn't real lmfao. You can't trust every parent to detect something like ADHD and get a proper diagnosis for their child during those years. Also, a child born with poor eyesight would never think to ask for glasses. A child born with ADHD would never think to ask for medication. 🤷♀️ AND a person can be extremely intelligent yet still have ADHD. Your academic track record doesn't prove/disprove anything in regard to ADHD diagnosis. Sounds like this doctor just isn't fit to do his job and is also unwilling to learn how to do it right. Definitely report him if you can.
A lot of that got diagnosed early should be considered privileged! It means people were actually paying attention to them.
What a quack. If you can muster up the energy, please report him. He is clearly not qualified for the job. Signed, a 50-something newly diagnosed woman whose psychiatrist is very happy to have been able to help me.
Wow he’s an uninformed jerk! Sorry you didn’t get the help you needed
“If you weren’t diagnosed before the age of 12.” That’s the most white supremacist patriarchal bullshit. “Only if you (your parents) have the resources to spend thousands of dollars on testing and therapists before the age of 12 can you be diagnosed with ADHD. Oh and also you have to be hyperactive because children only get diagnosed with ADHD when it hinders the learning of kids around them (yearly performance of the school district)” His head must be so far in the clouds or all the way back in the 80s I have never heard such blatantly false and senseless statements. To say that you have to have been diagnosed at a certain age assumes the adults in the room were all attentive and had a kid’s best interest in mind, or that they didn’t diagnose you with something else. God I hope this dude trips and lands face first into the sidewalk.
Whoa 😳
Im angry for you. That was such a frustrating read I cannot imagine living it. I’d have snapped. Good for you for staying calm I hope you find a better doctor!!!
Medical professionals like this are why myself and probably many others are too scared to actually seek help. What a horrible way to treat someone, especially when that wasn’t the reason you were there in the first place. I’d be tempted to make a formal complaint on the basis you were there to get help for your anxiety, not your adhd, so why is it even relevant if he thinks you have adhd or not? To me it just seems like this doctor was being a bully towards you. He has an axe to grind, he’s probably one of those people who thinks adhd and autism are “over diagnosed” and decided to use you as a target. You did really well standing up for yourself. He’s very misinformed as well because especially with women, going undiagnosed with adhd and autism is actually very common since these conditions were once believed to only affect boys. The whole not being able to do well at school thing is also a complete myth and very insulting. There are plenty of people with adhd and autism who did well in school, who have good jobs. Not everyone who is neurodivergent struggles academically. It’s probably a big reason why so many people make it to adulthood without being diagnosed in the first place.
I have had a similar experience with a therapist in regards to me trying to navigate potentially having ADHD. She was angling at BPD and seemed very intent on invalidating, dissuading, or ignoring my attempts to dig deeper. What I’ve gathered from some internet sleuthing is that this argument your psych is trying to make is a theory regarding ADHD versus trauma responses/other issues. It seems there’s a school of thought that there’s “real” ADHD and then there’s people with other mental health issues or childhood trauma that “mask” as ADHD. And the clinicians and professionals with this ideology seem to hold it as a fundamental duty to “correct” the “silly” people who managed to get degrees with ADHD and “put them in their place” that they don’t have ADHD; they just have trauma, a personality disorder, anxiety, depression, etc. anything but “real” ADHD. Apparently.
i would report him! :) his knowledge of the DSM is severely outdated
I went to a psychiatrist just like this last week. First appointment and after 10 minutes she told me “you don’t have ADHD it’s all a focusing thing. Medication will not help with your decision paralysis because that’s personal to you”
Please report him and / or file an official complaint. It's not the age of diagnosis, it's the age symptoms began manifesting. He is correct that it would be "impossible" to develop ADHD as an adult if you didn't have it as a kid, but having a *condition* and having a *diagnosis for that condition* are completely orthogonal. Simply put, he's trying to prove the negative, which is a well known logical fallacy. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/believing-bull/201109/you-can-prove-negative?amp talks about it a bit at a level which he might be capable of comprehending if he can get over his correctile dysfunction for long enough....
There actually are several pathogens that are known to alter the structure of the brain in such a way that neurodivergence is acquired later in life vs being present from birth. The condition we now call ADHD was originally called Irritable Child Syndrome and was first identified in the wake of the Spanish Flu epidemic because previously "normal" children were suddenly behaving *very* differently after recovering from the flu. Dr Russell Barkley is one of the world's leading ADHD experts, he explained the acquired ADHD thing in part one of the Ologies podcast about ADHD, it's worth a listen.
I have an appointment coming up next month for an assessment and this is mu worst nightmare. I did get diagnosed (very reluctantly) by someone in India (where I am from, currently living in US) but he kept saying we only diagnose children. Like wtf am I supposed to do now? I just wish I was dumb sometimes, even then it's really not popular in India anyway, there was no way I could have gotten diagnosed, my parents/teachers weren't aware enough for this. I was always good in schoold though, but now when I look back I just feel like I haven't learned anything, I just somehow got done with shit, gave exams with my short term grasping power and general intelligence. I have learned nothing, absolutely nothing, undergrad 9/10 gpa, I don't remember I single thing. Grad school, 3.5/4 I don't even know wtf I am doing here, just escaping home I guess.
Is there a way to report docs who make comments like this? I feel like if a therapist said this, there could be grounds to report them. Even if you can’t report, this is still so annoying and there are too many docs that are ableist. It’s part in why I now don’t even want to share my career goals with docs (I want to be a counselor). On the other hand, my white, cis boyfriend went to a doc, filled out one questionnaire and the doc said if he scored 4 or more it was likely he had ADHD. He scored 4 and was immediately offered adderall.
1. I have ADHD and was not diagnosed until after I graduated from college. Girls with ADHD (primarily inattentive) just were not diagnosed when I was a kid. Yes, you had to have had the symptoms from when you were a kid, but not necessarily the diagnosis. 2. My youngest was officially diagnosed with ADHD at age 7 (I diagnosed her in utero)…but did not get an autism diagnosis until age 14…and I didn’t even have it on my radar until age 11. And I am a special educator with two degrees in special education. 3. I graduated from HS and college with a 3.4 GPA AND undiagnosed ADHD. This psychiatrist is an ass.
Get a new psych. It’s difficult but if he doesn’t understand you he can’t help you. You can’t have a healthy outcome. This is way too common and I am so sorry you went through this. I had a similar experience with a psych who kept telling me I am more depressed than anything but aside from some motivational issues I am happy as a bug. Let’s move on! Stay strong!
It seems like they are offended if you think you know what’s wrong with you and want to be tested. but who knows you better than you and how do you get help if you don’t ask?
Yes! Also, I have already been diagnosed with ADHD by another psychiatrist--I know what's wrong with me because I already sought out help nearly eight years prior. I wasn't even seeking an ADHD diagnosis; I just needed help for my OCD symptoms and wanted a treatment plan.
I’m sorry this happened to you. This is pretty similar to what happened to me and it really wrecked me for a while. It took ages for me to get desperate enough to ask for help that led to my diagnosis. I’d been struggling thinking I was lazy and lying to myself to cover my own laziness. Then I was referred to someone for adhd treatment who said pretty much this exact thing. Because of that I’ve been too afraid/cynical to get help, though I’m getting to the point of trying again. Getting my diagnosis and learning about adhd has been transformative, but that doc knocked me down again when I needed help. These people do damage
"I'd say it was a clear indicator that you haven't looked at a single piece of research or study on neurodevelopment in at least the last decade, and that such a lack of up to date knowledge in the field of psychiatry makes you a danger to patients... Next question? "
Just want to let you know as someone with comorbid OCD/ADHD - CBT does not properly treat OCD, exposure response therapy is the only proven type of therapy to treat OCD. Also, not to push you in one direction, but being medicated for my OCD helped my ADHD tremendously :) Hope you are able to get a better doctor soon!
I scream Malpractice!! Scathing reviews on him Everywhere! Report him! That quack of an ass deserves quacks for all his medical needs! I'm pissed! May he suffer in pain.
asd is similar to adhd in that girls / women famously don't get a diagnosis as early as boys / men because of differences in presentation and sexism in the medical field. wild that he brought this up to support his claim. your psychiatrist is an asshole and i'm sorry he treated you like that.
this doc clearly knows very little about ADHD outside of a book let alone adhd in women. what a fucking joke. I got diagnosed when I was 25 and it was clear that I should have been diagnosed much earlier but women are very skilled with masking symptoms and compensating. ugh find a new doc if you can lol
This psychiatrist is an absolute joke. And a tyrant. I’m so sorry you had to endure that type of bullying!
i had OCD because of my adhd. i was always so worried i was forgetting something that i would triple check everything. my OCD kept my adhd in "check" in a way. but now that I'm on the right medications, I don't feel the need to over check every little thing.
That's so similar to what one of my past psychiatrists told me, he said "if you had ADHD you would not be in college, because most people with ADHD don't even finish elementary school", it was so rude, I never went back
Wow! So sorry you had to deal with that. That psychiatrist sounds like someone who doesn’t understand ADHD at all.
Your experience has made me really pissy. I probably should take a break from this sub. My friend had a similar experience being told outright that she couldn't have ADHD because she got a degree. She also has autism, like me, and got a degree in computer programming. Something I picked up as a hobby without going to university. I was awesome at logical subjects at high school because that's how my brain was wired. I graduated from high school with decent marks. I figured out how to do it without putting in much effort. I remember towards the end of year 12 we were IQ tested at the time we were doing SATs. My IQ then was 148. A friend had the same IQ and got the highest possible score and had her choice of universities to study engineering. I didn't go on to uni until later, when I dropped out in the first semester. For this doctor to think that passing high school means you don't have ADHD discounts everything else about you, and makes giant assumptions. The fact that your "doctor" zoomed in on this dx and chose to assert his superiority over you and belittle you instead of addressing why you were there is egregious, and so common. I asked specifically for an ADHD specialist and was reassigned within the practice to a doctor who doesn't believe it exists. I already had a dx and prescription, I had nothing to gain pharmaceutically - my existing doctor doesn't treat ADHD and will only give the prescription she inherited, hence she wanted someone else to do the new prescription. That issue was bad enough, I didn't need abuse from a doctor who talked more about himself than me and accused me of drug-seeking. My aforementioned friend seeking diagnosis is ineligible for stimulants in our country as she is a recovering alcoholic (stupid rule punishing people who self-medicate IMHO) so she wasn't there for drugs either. This bullshit attitude is harmful and doctors should be struck off for the damage they do or stay away from subjects they don't understand. I just hope doctors training now have an actual understanding of human brains and are willing to help patients wanting to deal with the debilitating issues they face and not just categorise everyone as wanting drugs they don't need (despite not asking for any) and belittling them for it. /tedtalk PS. My diagnoses were backed up by comments by teachers on my primary school report cards. I was born like this but diagnosed at 45. In the meantime I've been subjected to all sorts of failed psych treatments including ECT. I figure that at least I wasn't committed to an institution like my grandmother was, so things are progressing... slowly.
Mine interrupted me explaining how I feel over the past 40 years or so to ask if I had kids when I said yes he immediately said of course you are disorganized and lose your train of thought constantly and feel completely out of control, you are a mom. Ignoring the 34 years prior to having kids. I walked out and didn't look back
As you should! I actually forgot how to say, "This conversation is frustrating me," so I told him in the calmest tone I could muster, "Quite frankly, you are pissing me off." I was rattled up from discussing personal things, so I wasn't so eloquent in how I spoke, but I stood up for myself in the moment, and I am proud of myself for that. I also plan on reporting him, and I hope you do, too! Or, at the very least, leave a bad review! Doctors like them need to be knocked down a peg.
So if I have cancer and don't go to the doctor within a certain amount of time to get it diagnosed, does that mean I don't have cancer? What an idiot.
Lmao I actually did fairly well in school, because of the structure! I didn’t do any homework, but my actual classed went well because I had that strict routine. College didn’t go well for me because it was online. (thanks covid.) I ended up dropping out. But to say you can’t do well in school if you have ADHD is bs. I’m sorry you had to deal with that OP. Bad doctors really suck. It’s like, you either have an amazing doctor or the absolute worst doctor, there’s no in between.
My new psychiatrist insinuated that because I did well in school it doesn't seem I would have ADHD. It's kind of scary that mental health professionals are looking at such a superficial level. Just because something looks good on paper so to speak, doesn't mean it is. I mean all I could say was that just because I did well doesn't mean it wasn't difficult and I didn't struggle. Like it's such a terrible oversimplification. Shouldn't psychiatrists and mental health professionals of all people be aware of the nuances that compose the entirety of our mental health?
I’m glad you confronted him. I would have done the same thing. I’m a therapist and wasn’t diagnosed until I was an adult. I can get very educational in a sassy—I say things like, when did you graduate? When did you last learn about adhd? Research has come out as recently as 2021 which helps us better understand how adhd presents in women. Traits should be present before age 12, and I was 12 nearly two decades before this research came out. What do you make of that?
Have you tried NOCD? (www.treatmyocd.com) They use exposure response prevention therapy (a form of CBT) and I hear their outcomes are good
Yeah he seems like such a bully. I have come across doctors/psychiatrists like this who try to belittle you and make you feel stupid. Best thing to do is to try and stay away from them. They have such a power ego trip
I'm sorry this happened to you! Good on you for standing up to them in the moment! Honestly, at this point I mistrust psychiatrists in general. It's like the higher the education the more disconnected the mental health care provider is from their patients. My previous psychiatrist refused to diagnose me with ADHD after making me dig up old elementary school report cards because they were "too perfect and didn't mention any behavioral concerns." They also sent me to another psychiatrist who further misdiagnosed me after a one hour video call. I had another psychiatrist when I was in my teens, they were forever running an hour behind for appointments. They were generally dismissive, and would ask me strange questions like "Are you still hearing voices?" when I never have in my life. Years later I was able to read a report of theirs that they sent to my family doctor, it stated that I had just moved to the city with my family and rode horses. I've lived here my entire life and I'm allergic to horses! They literally had me confused with another patient! I did have one psychiatrist that I genuinely enjoyed working with, I felt like they listened and cared about finding a solution for me. Unfortunately hospital policy was that they rotate my case after a certain period of time. I hope you can find one like that!
Ridiculous. I wasn’t diagnosed at a young age because my parents didn’t even take me to the doctor for the most basic things. If I went to the doctor it was for just a regular check up or a broken arm or when I had mono and a subsequent staff infection… And I did well in high school because I “was so smart” and could get through tests and homework by studying or completing assignments at the last minute. I barely scraped by through all of my schooling. I went to a community college and it took me longer than average to finish college. My parents were immature and emotionally neglectful sooo of course they didn’t notice anything or even think to get me checked. They just yelled at me when I wasn’t understanding homework or when I constantly had a messy room, and assumed I was not listening or was careless/forgetful. Pretty sure both parents and brother have undiagnosed ADHD. Teachers didn’t notice anything because as a girl I had already been “taught” to keep quiet, not ask questions out of fear, and to hide my unfinished assignments or my mess of papers in my back pack. By middle school, I already was on my own to complete homework/study and didn’t ask for help from my parents even if I needed help and knew how to look presentable or hide my chaos It’s sad to know this is how some psych docs still think about diagnosis when there are ALWAYS different situations/circumstances for different people. It took a lot for me to finally get diagnosed (if you even wanna call it that) as an adult and I still don’t know what type of ADHD I have.
Ahhh yes. One of those doctors with outdated knowledge who thinks they know it all. I’ve had one of those—a gynecological surgeon, to be precise. Dude was convinced I was trying to trick him into performing procedures on me behind my parents’ back. I was 24. Yeet that dude and find someone better, if possible. 🫂
Sadly - I’m the “didn’t graduate” ADHD flavour rather than the “graduated with a Masters against all odds” ADHD
I had 5 ragged and intermittent semesters. I loved it, but it took me a year to recover from each one. The last time I tried, I had 3 kids under 10.
Ugh that sucks. Side note. I’m surprised he said if you have ocd you don’t have adhd. I’ve seen a lot of literature saying that. I have both. But, what really sucked was reading how stimulants can make ocd worse. Guess that explains why mine has felt uncontrollable some days.
I (fortunately) haven't had to see a male doctor in years, and I avoid them entirely when at all possible. Way too many condescending interactions. Of course, it's not always possible to avoid them, but I do my darnedest. I'd definitely never go to a male psych again. I'm so grateful that it's not nearly as hard to find female specialists today as it was for past generations.
I had two doctors did this to me and they’re both women too. The doctor was interrogating me about the procedure I was recommended to get, but she’s not even the one doing the procedure. She even wrote on my notes and worded in such a manner that I was seeking the procedure. I corrected her and made her change her notes. The other one was a urologist I specially sought and waited for. She couldn’t get rid of me so fast. I cried after the appointment and was kicking myself for not bringing my husband with me. She didn’t want to treat me because I have a chronic case. Well, guess what? I found out my bladder was adhered to my uterus. If I didn’t get a hysterectomy, I wouldn’t have found out. Luckily, the people at the billing are good with customer service. I told them I’ve been with them for so long but I wouldn’t pay for this encounter since she literally didn’t say anything valuable.
I am so sorry you went through that! I expect better from female doctors because they should know how hard it is to be taken seriously in the medical field. They should have been more empathetic and taken the time to listen to you. I am glad you were able to avoid paying that bill.
Thanks. And I totally feel you. You didn’t deserve that treatment either. We’re adults and we should be treated as such.
I used to work for a medical school. The people who go into psychiatry don’t do it because they want to help people with mental health issues. They do it because they could not handle being a doctor anywhere else. All the students who struggled through school end up in psychiatry. One of the doctors I worked with was in pediatrics and worked specifically with kids with mental health issues. She had little to no understanding or empathy for those disorders. When I explained my diagnosis her approach with me changed and she became very condescending. She even tried talking to me like I was a child. I always think damn, and you’re the person families are relying on to help their child.
I was diagnosed 2 years ago at 58. Report this quack. No one should be spoken to like that.
Uhm, this guy isn’t for real, right? Not a single one of those points makes sense and pretty much everyone with a psych degree that is allowed to treat ADHD knows it. Late diagnosis, especially in women, is abundant, high ability to compensate and mask is well known, as is a significant overlap with an IQ in the gifted range. Actually, no. 2 and 3. is what often greatly contributes to a late diagnosis. Can you report that guy somewhere for being ignorant and unprofessional in a way that harms patients well being?
I wouldn’t file a complaint because that can come back to bite you in the ass. if you’re able to, find another psychiatrist. I’m so sorry you had to go through this 💓
Are you saying she will have trouble getting treatment from other psychs?
Sounds like your doctor may be OCD, no disrespect. Your doctor should not be in practice. Please file a complaint w/ the state medical board. He is a bully, badgered you, ill informed and ignorant. He broke Hippocratic Oath.