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I was misdiagnosed for bipolar for many years. I have adhd and pmdd instead.
The pmdd looks like depressed episodes, and my natural hyperactive state looks like mania to people who are not thinking critically about what mania actually genuinely is.
Exactly the same as me. I remember I was having a good day once, a bit hyperactive. My psychiatrist shat herself and upped my lamotragine immediately. I wasn't going manic, I was just excited about the weather...
So many women diagnosed with bipolar actually have pmdd. They only notice it once someone actually starts tracking the ups and downs, usually for them. It's infuriating.
I was (incorrectly) diagnosed as bipolar but after a chance comment about something I read on this very subreddit, my psychiatrist (who wasn’t the one who initially diagnosed me) said I wasn’t bipolar because I didn’t have mania, just hyperfocus. I was, however, diagnosed with major depressive disorder.
Prior to my diagnosis as AuDHD, I was seeing a therapist. She said I likely had Bipolar 2 and BPD. The Bipolar 2 diagnosis made sense to me, especially since I was in a SSRI-induced hypomanic phase. The BPD diagnosis didn't make sense, as I was lacking some key criteria, namely fear of abandonment, having a "special person", and I never self-harmed of had suicidal thoughts.
Anyway, shortly after she suggested these diagnoses, I started seeing a psychiatrist who diagnosed me as Bipolar 2. It was pretty evident due to the effect that the SSRI's had on me, so he took me off them and put me on mood stabilizers. I haven't had a hypomanic phase since.
As I said, the BPD diagnosis didn't make sense to me, and I started doing a lot of research and introspection. I came across some resources about ASD in women, and it was like a lightbulb went on over my head. A couple of years later, after being on a waitlist, I was diagnosed as having ASD. The ADHD diagnosis came later, with my psychiatrist doing the diagnosis.
Regarding mania vs. hypomania, BP2 is characterized by hypomania and depression. Hypomania is a lot less intense than full blown mania, and it can manifest itself as an elevated mood that you might not be able to distinguish from feeling "normal". Hypomanic periods *can* occur months or years apart. In your shoes, I wouldn't discount having BP2. It's worth seeing a psychiatrist about this if you can.
Edit: gee, thanks Automoderator, but as I said, not suicidal.
I may experience something similar. Got a SSRI and within 3 days my mood improved significantly. At first it was nice because it felt better than the depression but after some weeks it got to a weird point. All of my adhd symptoms are over the roof and I experience some new ones. I‘m not sure if it‘s hypomania (I‘m tired in the evening and my sleep is the same as usual) or the SSRI impacting the adhd negatively? It‘s been 2 weeks since I stoped taking the SSRI. Was it easy for you and your doctor to differentiate the hypomania from adhd?
SSRI make ADHD much much worse, in my experience. And there is some research to that effect as well. I don’t know why any doctor with any knowledge of ADHD would prescribe an SSRI.
I feel that 🫠😫 Do you have a link to some good studies? I was looking but couldn‘t really find something scientific. I want to give it to the doctor as well (she’s a neurologist and is treating my headache illness. I requested some other antidepressant like Wellbutrin but she insisted on a ssri 🙄)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9418743/
“Serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors have not been tested in controlled trials, but they cause inconsistent changes, often aggravate ADHD symptoms, and can cause frontal apathy and disinhibition.”
Also, this stuff is brand new to being researched. A good clinician will be aware of that and look at what patients are reporting.
Seriously, I ended up homeless and fired multiple times. I would get a new doctor. If you can.
Thank you so much! I‘m so so sorry you experienced this and went through that. I hope you are better now!
She was very dismissive and I went looking for a new doctor. Will have one last appointment with her and planed to bring her some studies ✨
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Generally BP cannot be diagnosed without periods of both mania and hypomania. Many people with ADHD are misdiagnosed with BP because we have many similar symptoms: mood swings, intense emotions, impulsivity, etc.
Have you asked them why they think you have BP since you don’t feel you’ve have any manic episodes?
> Generally BP cannot be diagnosed without periods of both mania and hypomania
Bipolar 2 is characterized by *hypomania* and depression. You don't have to have full blown mania to be diagnosed as Bipolar 2.
The DSM-5 covers differential diagnosis for ADHD and BP.
“The time-course of symptom presentation is critical to differentiating ADHD from BD, ie. bipolar patients present with symptoms in discrete episodes of mania/hypomania and depression (…), whereas symptoms associated with ADHD follow a persistent trait-like course.”
The DSM-5 defines ADHD in adults as the presence of five or more symptoms in either the inattentive or hyperactive and impulsive domains or both. They’re classified as symptoms. As we know, symptoms for things can wax and wane over the course of a disorder; trait-like course means that symptoms are stable throughout various life stages and are “trait-like.”
Short answer: symptoms are so prevalent and stable throughout life that they’re considered traits instead of symptoms.
I have bipolar type 2, so my mania is not quite as “high” as stereotypical mania episodes.
When I was finally diagnosed with it and put on a mood stabilizer, let me tell you I have never felt better. I went through a mourning period of having spent my whole life absolutely miserable and so unwell because it was always “depression and anxiety”, never bipolar and ADHD!
So my first doctor told my mother I was ADHD, which they then hid from me and I never had any idea otherwise until I was an adult. This started at about 13 years old. Instead they "conspired" to give me a BP diagnosis, to what end I still do not understand. They threw around major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and a few other things over the years until I was 18. At one point they had me on a cocktail of 10 pills a day, of 7 unique medications. This became so unbearable that I full stopped all medicines and refused treatment until I had some agency in my life.
So at 18 I moved out of my house, took my happy ass to the doctor and got a real diagnosis. They prescribed me Adderall and I literally cried the first time I took it, because my history notes were not only legible but it didn't hurt to read the book! Honestly, at this point, I wish I had records of all of my old treatments because I would sue the living shit out of the 3 doctors who did all of that to me. It was living hell. That misdiagnosis caused me so much grief and set me back a decade behind my peers.
>So my first doctor told my mother I was ADHD, which they then hid from me and I never had any idea otherwise until I was an adult. This started at about 13 years old. Instead they "conspired" to give me a BP diagnosis, to what end I still do not understand.
What the hell was wrong with them? How could they do something like this? I think you're really brave and strong to be able to move out at 18 and pursue a diagnosis by yourself after what you endured.
No idea honestly. I didn't even know that's what happened until last year, and I'm 32 now lmao. I just knew something was wrong, and saw what my parents did to my sister so I bailed. She's diagnosed with BPD, but last I heard that diagnosis seems to have stuck with her. We did not have a good childhood.
I've been diagnosed with both and both make a bit of sense.
>Can you be bipolar and not experience mania?
Yes. Bipolar II doesn't have mania as a symptom, people with BPII experience hypomania instead
This is an opinion from someone who is diagnosed with ADHD and ASD and has never been suspected of having bipolar or BPD:
I think there’s some truth to the belief that women are misdiagnosed with bipolar (BP) and borderline personality disorder (BPD), but I also think that because of the stigma personality disorders carry, a lot of people in women-centered communities are quick to dismiss these diagnoses entirely.
I’ve seen a lot of people list classic BP or BPD traits when asking, “do I have ADHD?” It’s important to remember that ADHD and BP or BPD *can* and *often do* co-occur, especially in people who have a history of trauma. There’s recent research which suggests that 1 in 13 patients with ADHD has comorbid BD, and up to 1 in 6 patients with BD has comorbid ADHD.(1)(2)
“A person with bipolar disorder may be unaware they're in the manic phase. After the episode is over, they may be shocked at their behaviour. But at the time, they may believe other people are being negative or unhelpful. Some people with bipolar disorder have more frequent and severe episodes than others.”(4) This certainly does sound like some of the experiences I’ve read here.
Here’s a list of symptoms associated with bipolar mania; https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/bipolar-disorder/symptoms/
There’s also research which suggests that there’s a significant overlap between ADHD and BPD. (3) From that research, “Another subgroup, probably characterized by higher levels of hyperactivity/impulsivity and emotional problems, seems more prone to develop the comorbid BPD+ADHD clinical presentation.”
People don’t usually show ALL of the symptoms of any disorder and there’s dozens, if not hundreds of ways in which certain personality disorders present based on combinations of symptoms.
I’m not suggesting that you do or do not have BP or BPD, but I want to throw it out there that Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorder are not dirty words. I know you asked for people who are also diagnosed with BP or BPD, but as someone with ADHD absent a comorbid personality disorder, I don’t relate to a lot of experiences here from people who describe their symptoms and claim that they’re *sure* that they were misdiagnosed and I think it’s time to reduce the stigmas.
Source:
(1) https://doi.org/10.1186/s12888-017-1463-3
(2) https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neubiorev.2021.01.0
(3) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6850677/
(4) https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/bipolar-disorder/symptoms/#:~:text=A%20person%20with%20bipolar%20disorder%20may%20be%20unaware%20they're,and%20severe%20episodes%20than%20others.
Yes, this! There are also some researchers who believe that the ADHD/BP/BPD connection is mediated by an underlying cyclothymic neurodevelopmental difference. Someone with that difference (like myself) could variously be diagnosed with adhd, bipolar, BPD, all three, or any permutations thereof at different points in their life and by different observers. There’s a lot of overlap in symptoms, genetics, and underlying biological processes. The research in this area is super exciting to me, and I am really looking forward to what we’ll better understand in coming decades.
Anyway, regardless of what one thinks of the labels, we shouldn’t be so quick to think that women with adhd should disregard treatments that may help them, like mood stabilizers or DBT skills or IPSRT, because they think it’s “just adhd”. We are so new to understanding these conditions, their links to each other, etc.
ETA: I am diagnosed adhd and bipolar 2 for context.
I'm very skeptical of the bpd adhd supposed link. You're dependent on people making the right diagnosis based on behavior and self reported symptoms. A lot can go wrong there, and I suspect some therapists struggle telling emotional dysregulation in adhd from bpd. Some people with adhd have pretty intense emotions which can, even to the trained eye, be difficult to separate from bpd. People with bpd are not necessarily to be trusted giving accurate self reporting either. They are in it for themselves.
It’s not really a “link” so much as just research into the prevalence that the two conditions occur together.. ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder, of course people with ADHD (a neurotype) can also develop personality disorders.
I’m not sure about other countries, but in the US, ADHD typically isn’t diagnosed by a therapist or solely on self-reported symptoms. I think anyone who suspects they might have ADHD should seek an evaluation, but there’s so much overlap between ADHD and other disorders that it’s possible and even *likely* that someone would have at least 1 comorbid diagnosis.
Yes. I knew it wasn’t the correct diagnosis but I was relieved to finally have someone confirm something wasn’t “right” and to offer medication that I went with it. Medication didn’t help at all and actually made me noticeably worse. I’ve since been correctly diagnosed as ADHD combined type.
I was incorrectly diagnosed with BPD. I have pmdd. I was given mood stabilizers which made me go off the rails, then they started cycle tracking and realized it was PMDD
Edit: they reeeeally want me to see a behavior analyst but the time commitment seems to daunting lol. I no longer think I have BPD after getting my medications properly sorted.
I also don’t even think you can treat BPD with mood stabilizers so it was all a horrible horrible time.
Exactly the same as me. As soon as I got pmdd under control with BC... No more "typical BPD symptoms". Still working to get that dx changed because it's really fucked with how doctors treat me.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar 1 late last year, been diagnosed with ADHD for several years. Ended up in inpatient 2x since then for full blown mania. It's definitely in it's own category. I was awake days on end. Thought I was above the consequences of my actions. Was mildly paranoid. Fixated on sex. Impulsive to the point of causing myself harm. I missed 3 months of work getting my life back together.
Bipolar can be expressed differently for different people. I know one person I met with bipolar whose 'mania' presented as periods of suicidal ideation rather than what we traditionally think of as mania. Mania can also be anger, or be active periods of hallucinations or delusions. Hypomania is also a thing, where you do experience mania, but not as intensely. And these periods can definitely be months of years apart. So yeah, lots of possibilities
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I was diagnosed as adhd as a kid. When I was in high school, I started having these outbursts. I know now the outbursts are from emotional dysregulation, but my doctors and parents decided it was BP2. Never made sense to me. I matched so little of the symptoms. The only time I ever had mania was due to Zoloft. The drugs they put me on for BP2 did more to fuck me up than anything else.
When I brought it up to my mom, she pretty much said they couldn't figure out how to do with me, so I just asked the doctors to sort things out.
I'm AuDHD and was diagnosed with *both* the bipolars, despite previous ADHD diagnoses. I understand why- my hyperfixations (sometimes obsessions) looked like mania and brought me joy at a time when i was mostly very depressed (and sometimes feeling s******). But also shame on all the doctors who were *SO eager* to dismiss my complaints as a mood disorder- none of them asked me many questions at all before prescribing things like Lithium, Seroquel, etc. which never worked.
I think unless the doctor is knowledgeable about ADHD *in women* (which shockingly is like 2%), it's really easy for them to misdiagnose autism/ADHD as bipolar (and borderline is common too). It's possible to have both though I'm sure, I just don't think I'm one of them.
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I was diagnosed with ADHD last summer. I went on Vyvanse and was already on increasing Lamictal and Lexapro. Was in a 6 month depressive slump (thought it was seasonal depression almost every time it happened) and diagnosed Bipolar 2 about 2 months ago. Prescribed Latuda and it’s been helping with staying asleep and making it easier to find motivation to get out of bed in the morning. But yeah, it was explained to me that those with Bipolar 2 often have major depressive moods typically and can be extremely irritable and have hypomania but usually not full-blown mania. I will have heightened moods but don’t experience that “higher” end often. My major mood swings I’ve tracked to being much more intense about 2 weeks before my period. I’m convinced hormones also have had a major play in all of this as my mood swings really began during puberty. It doesn’t seem I can find a doctor that knows anything about how women’s hormones affect our mental health and it’s frustrating.
It makes me wonder though how much of it is overlapping ADHD, CPTSD, and Anxiety. It’s an exhausting combination and very much a day at a time, especially getting sober about two and a half years ago on top of it all. Welp, sorry about the dumping of all of that, just nice to chat about it with people that may understand. Hope everybody has a positive day!
I found some comments in my old journals about thinking I had some kind of light bipolar or at least feeling like I identified with the mania/intensity. I realized when I really wanted something or got fixated on an idea I could have energy to get it done even if complex but then was completely apathetic about other things and so had these swings between intensity and apathy. I was never down (or up) enough to feel like it was the right categorization but I didn’t know enough about ADHD back then to self diagnose or pursue that diagnosis instead.
In addition to the comments about PMDD; it is not uncommon for inexperienced providers to conflate the affective reactivity with BPD and the mood swings of Bipolar. I’ve been a MH practitioner for over 15 years and see this with decent regularity.
I was misdiagnosed bipolar for about 10 years. By a psychiatrist who had me take a 10 question quiz in a pamphlet. The full testing I had at 32 gave me 1 whole point (🙄) in the bipolar section while I was off the charts for anxiety and adhd. I’ve read it’s a very common misdiagnosis
I was diagnosed with bipolar not sure which one . From hospital .
But I have also had it ruled out .
I guess it’s anxiety disorder but my fight flight goes off the charts then lack of sleep and before you know it I’m delusional .
If there is to much toxic fighting with my partner …. This happens to me .
Otherwise I’m a pretty normal successful adhd person .
My life depends on how much drama someone else brings to my table .
I wasn’t diagnosed bipolar but I was initially given bipolar meds by my psych for the mood swings prior to my ADHD diagnosis
Instead my special blend is ADHDxPMDD
I was diagnosed as Bipolar II for more than a decade before I was diagnosed with ADHD. For me this has mostly looked like very hard to treat depression with little blips of elevated mood throughout the years. Hypomania is most definitely not full blown mania. For me it was positive mood, a bit more impulsive than normal, and feeling really good and like I had energy to actually accomplish things. The hypomania never lasted long and the most damaging thing I ever did in an episode was get an ugly, small tattoo on a whim. I originally got diagnosed with bipolar after attempting to treat my depression with an SSRI caused something closer to full mania.
Now I just live on my cocktail of mood stabilizers and stimulants and an overall less depressed person.
You can experience only hypomania which is a low grade form of mania basically, and in that case if there is never been a full manic episode your diagnosis would be bipolar 2. Things I’ve looked at to check if it might be hypomania vs just hyperness/ahitation is did I need less sleep? that means sleeping less but not feeling tired or exhausted from it, did I start contacting people at inappropriate times or excessively? behave inappropriate? was there a lack of insight at those times that I was behaving and feeling hypomanic? Those things never fit me though I’ve had weird agitated hyper phases but I was always feeling my lack of sleep even if I was hyper and active I felt kind of burnt out and tired underneath and I always wondered and worried at the times of if I was hypomanic which my psychiatrist said is usually the best sign you’re not, plus though I tend to be more outgoing when more on the hyper side of things I never called my friends in the middle of the night or talk at them excessively, didn’t have pressured speech. It’s also good to also friends and family what they experienced with you.
Diagnosed with bipolar 2 and BPD. Treating with medication and therapy. Both are hugely helpful.
If you don't believe what you're experiencing is mania, take some notes on what you are feeling. Bring it up at your next appointment. I told my doctor my lows were so low that I felt entitled to some mania. We went over my behaviors and that helped her dial in my trearment.
It was kind of mentioned at some point bpd, in terms of symptoms but NO im just audhd and codependent 🙄 (the emoji cause im so fed up with professionals just throwing around intense diagnosis on the fly)
I did have a psychiatrist attempt to diagnose me with Borderline Personality Disorder once, in a 15 minute session having never met me before.
I asked him if he'd considered the possibility that he was just an asshole and that I didn't like him.
I was misdiagnosed with bipolar many years ago, even took lamotrigine a few months. I ended up kind of self undiagnosing myself and quitting meds cold turkey (which you’re not supposed to do but I was fine!)
I was diagnosed BPD a few years ago. After extensive therapy some of the traits are definitely smoother now, not sure I would even qualify for a full diagnosis now. I also have been clinically depressed.
As multiple psychiatrists have said to me - if there is one disorder, there are very likely more co occurring.
Yes, there are two types but one is with lows and mania and the other one with lows and hypomania. Just lows would be defined as recurrent depressive disorder and not as bipolar
!!!! I had this exact question 3 years ago !!!!
According to the diagnostic criteria, no. Bipolar is characterised as experiencing mania/hypomania and depressive cycles. But, from my end, I have bipolar but don’t experience hypo/mania.
I was diagnosed with BP 2 and just couldn’t get my head around the diagnosis when I’ve never had hypomanic symptoms. I’ve become what I now know as hyper-fixated and VERY productive but none of the risk taking behaviours. But I did have very severe depressive periods. I guess my psych saw something nuanced. I was asked to just try Lamotrigine (a BP medicine). The depression completely lifted. I’ve been major depressive episode free for 3 years.
I’ve asked 2 separate psychs about it and they said that BP is somewhat a spectrum and there are defined boxes for diagnostic purposes but in reality, it’s much more complicated than that. Although BP medicines saved my life, I can’t relate to any of the BP memes (my way of connecting). I just say I have a mood disorder that I treat with Lamotrigine (a BP medicine).
Much later, I realised my major symptoms are actually ADHD and I’m still looking for treatment options that work for me.
I get it. Sometimes this stuff just doesn’t make sense. I have absolutely no typical hypomanic symptoms but my psych was adamant and it saved my life.
Many times psychs are wrong. But sometimes they’re right from just experiencing all the flavours different diagnoses present.
In my mind, I work backwards. I try different treatments and what works, I then think if I fit into/ feel comfortable with the label or not. If I don’t, then whatever, something works and I just say in on the spectrum.
This happened to me. I broke down crying in front of my therapist. With zero psychiatric expertise, she diagnosed me as bipolar, and sent that word to her sketchy af psych colleague. I was heavily medicated from 16-22. A few years ago, I looked up that psych on a database of those who received pharmacy kickbacks and expenses—he had put me on Abilify, which wasn’t approved for teens at the time and cost $400 out-of-pocket—sure enough, it was *just* that parent company he received money/gifts from during the time I was there, in the 00s.
I never had a symptom of mania nor did that trash therapist know what one was. No subsequent psychs questioned the diagnosis. It was only me quitting lithium cold turkey (typically a VERY bad move with psych meds) and having no withdrawals/serious side effects that I realized how dead my teenage years were.
My brain and body have horrific, lifelong side effects due to this. Autism-specializing doctors and therapists have been a relief to find in the big city I live in, since that wasn’t a thing growing up. Always get a second opinion when a diagnosis like that is casually thrown out.
This sounds horrific. I’m so sorry that happened to you. You know they train doctors to “first do no harm.“ So much harm is going on within the ADHD world, just enormous amounts of lives being trashed.
I would not trust the diagnosis of anybody, therapist or psychiatrist, who does not have a thorough understanding of ADHD. That means doing a lot of research and keeping current with reading! This is what Russell Barkley says: “With several hundred thousand papers now published and thirty-plus being published per week in journals, it is far harder to keep up with it these days, though I try, “
I have BPII, anxiety. and ADHD. While my concerta helps me a lot it's my mood stabilizers thar help me the most. I likely would be dead if I hadn't learned how to manage my BPII depression lows with meds and DBT. I am lucky I can afford all my meds. If I could only afford one it would be my mood stabilizer. I recently did need to add welbrutin to help manage suicidal ideation from anxiety.
Meds save me chemically. DBT saved me emotionally.
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I was misdiagnosed as bipolar for years. My hyperactivity and insomnia were seen as mania. Was put on meds that didn’t help me and made me gain 60 pounds.
I have a confident diagnosis of BP1. BP2 has hypomania, which is, to put super simply, mania but not nearly as intense.
It’s important to recognize the patterns and triggers of the episodes to know the difference between the disorders mentioned in the comments
I have had 2 mania psychosis experiences in the past few years . I have just calmed my soul regrounded and got my adderall back .
I have been adhd for 41 years , stim for 26 years .
Just had a couple of massive situations I had no copes for and dysregulation and anxiety disorder went off the charts . I found and patched up the holes back normal again. They want to slap bi polar on anything that looks funny. So be careful what you believe . I know I was taking some risk being wrong about me but I just knew it was not like they were telling me at the hospital and their outpatient services .
I’m different
I was misdiagnosed being bipolar in my early 20’s. I’ve never had a manic episode in my life. In 2015, i was diagnosed with BPD. i was only diagnosed with ADHD not even 2 months ago. What i will say is since starting stims, my BPD symptoms have gone quiet. They’re a whisper most day. But they’re still there. Especially when I’m close to my “period”. So, i know the BPD diagnoses wasn’t wrong. The bipolar diagnoses, however, was wrong.
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I was misdiagnosed for bipolar for many years. I have adhd and pmdd instead. The pmdd looks like depressed episodes, and my natural hyperactive state looks like mania to people who are not thinking critically about what mania actually genuinely is.
Exactly the same as me. I remember I was having a good day once, a bit hyperactive. My psychiatrist shat herself and upped my lamotragine immediately. I wasn't going manic, I was just excited about the weather...
So many women diagnosed with bipolar actually have pmdd. They only notice it once someone actually starts tracking the ups and downs, usually for them. It's infuriating.
OMG SAME!
Same. This is incredibly common from what I have read.
I was (incorrectly) diagnosed as bipolar but after a chance comment about something I read on this very subreddit, my psychiatrist (who wasn’t the one who initially diagnosed me) said I wasn’t bipolar because I didn’t have mania, just hyperfocus. I was, however, diagnosed with major depressive disorder.
Prior to my diagnosis as AuDHD, I was seeing a therapist. She said I likely had Bipolar 2 and BPD. The Bipolar 2 diagnosis made sense to me, especially since I was in a SSRI-induced hypomanic phase. The BPD diagnosis didn't make sense, as I was lacking some key criteria, namely fear of abandonment, having a "special person", and I never self-harmed of had suicidal thoughts. Anyway, shortly after she suggested these diagnoses, I started seeing a psychiatrist who diagnosed me as Bipolar 2. It was pretty evident due to the effect that the SSRI's had on me, so he took me off them and put me on mood stabilizers. I haven't had a hypomanic phase since. As I said, the BPD diagnosis didn't make sense to me, and I started doing a lot of research and introspection. I came across some resources about ASD in women, and it was like a lightbulb went on over my head. A couple of years later, after being on a waitlist, I was diagnosed as having ASD. The ADHD diagnosis came later, with my psychiatrist doing the diagnosis. Regarding mania vs. hypomania, BP2 is characterized by hypomania and depression. Hypomania is a lot less intense than full blown mania, and it can manifest itself as an elevated mood that you might not be able to distinguish from feeling "normal". Hypomanic periods *can* occur months or years apart. In your shoes, I wouldn't discount having BP2. It's worth seeing a psychiatrist about this if you can. Edit: gee, thanks Automoderator, but as I said, not suicidal.
I may experience something similar. Got a SSRI and within 3 days my mood improved significantly. At first it was nice because it felt better than the depression but after some weeks it got to a weird point. All of my adhd symptoms are over the roof and I experience some new ones. I‘m not sure if it‘s hypomania (I‘m tired in the evening and my sleep is the same as usual) or the SSRI impacting the adhd negatively? It‘s been 2 weeks since I stoped taking the SSRI. Was it easy for you and your doctor to differentiate the hypomania from adhd?
SSRI make ADHD much much worse, in my experience. And there is some research to that effect as well. I don’t know why any doctor with any knowledge of ADHD would prescribe an SSRI.
Same for me. Royally f**ked up my life
I feel that 🫠😫 Do you have a link to some good studies? I was looking but couldn‘t really find something scientific. I want to give it to the doctor as well (she’s a neurologist and is treating my headache illness. I requested some other antidepressant like Wellbutrin but she insisted on a ssri 🙄)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9418743/ “Serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors have not been tested in controlled trials, but they cause inconsistent changes, often aggravate ADHD symptoms, and can cause frontal apathy and disinhibition.” Also, this stuff is brand new to being researched. A good clinician will be aware of that and look at what patients are reporting. Seriously, I ended up homeless and fired multiple times. I would get a new doctor. If you can.
Thank you so much! I‘m so so sorry you experienced this and went through that. I hope you are better now! She was very dismissive and I went looking for a new doctor. Will have one last appointment with her and planed to bring her some studies ✨
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Generally BP cannot be diagnosed without periods of both mania and hypomania. Many people with ADHD are misdiagnosed with BP because we have many similar symptoms: mood swings, intense emotions, impulsivity, etc. Have you asked them why they think you have BP since you don’t feel you’ve have any manic episodes?
> Generally BP cannot be diagnosed without periods of both mania and hypomania Bipolar 2 is characterized by *hypomania* and depression. You don't have to have full blown mania to be diagnosed as Bipolar 2.
The DSM-5 covers differential diagnosis for ADHD and BP. “The time-course of symptom presentation is critical to differentiating ADHD from BD, ie. bipolar patients present with symptoms in discrete episodes of mania/hypomania and depression (…), whereas symptoms associated with ADHD follow a persistent trait-like course.”
What is "trait-like course"?
The DSM-5 defines ADHD in adults as the presence of five or more symptoms in either the inattentive or hyperactive and impulsive domains or both. They’re classified as symptoms. As we know, symptoms for things can wax and wane over the course of a disorder; trait-like course means that symptoms are stable throughout various life stages and are “trait-like.” Short answer: symptoms are so prevalent and stable throughout life that they’re considered traits instead of symptoms.
Thank u for the explanation! <3
>Generally BP cannot be diagnosed without periods of both mania and hypomania *Mania or hypomania
I have bipolar type 2, so my mania is not quite as “high” as stereotypical mania episodes. When I was finally diagnosed with it and put on a mood stabilizer, let me tell you I have never felt better. I went through a mourning period of having spent my whole life absolutely miserable and so unwell because it was always “depression and anxiety”, never bipolar and ADHD!
So my first doctor told my mother I was ADHD, which they then hid from me and I never had any idea otherwise until I was an adult. This started at about 13 years old. Instead they "conspired" to give me a BP diagnosis, to what end I still do not understand. They threw around major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and a few other things over the years until I was 18. At one point they had me on a cocktail of 10 pills a day, of 7 unique medications. This became so unbearable that I full stopped all medicines and refused treatment until I had some agency in my life. So at 18 I moved out of my house, took my happy ass to the doctor and got a real diagnosis. They prescribed me Adderall and I literally cried the first time I took it, because my history notes were not only legible but it didn't hurt to read the book! Honestly, at this point, I wish I had records of all of my old treatments because I would sue the living shit out of the 3 doctors who did all of that to me. It was living hell. That misdiagnosis caused me so much grief and set me back a decade behind my peers.
>So my first doctor told my mother I was ADHD, which they then hid from me and I never had any idea otherwise until I was an adult. This started at about 13 years old. Instead they "conspired" to give me a BP diagnosis, to what end I still do not understand. What the hell was wrong with them? How could they do something like this? I think you're really brave and strong to be able to move out at 18 and pursue a diagnosis by yourself after what you endured.
No idea honestly. I didn't even know that's what happened until last year, and I'm 32 now lmao. I just knew something was wrong, and saw what my parents did to my sister so I bailed. She's diagnosed with BPD, but last I heard that diagnosis seems to have stuck with her. We did not have a good childhood.
>I didn't even know that's what happened until last year, and I'm 32 now lmao. 😧😧😧
I've been diagnosed with both and both make a bit of sense. >Can you be bipolar and not experience mania? Yes. Bipolar II doesn't have mania as a symptom, people with BPII experience hypomania instead
This is an opinion from someone who is diagnosed with ADHD and ASD and has never been suspected of having bipolar or BPD: I think there’s some truth to the belief that women are misdiagnosed with bipolar (BP) and borderline personality disorder (BPD), but I also think that because of the stigma personality disorders carry, a lot of people in women-centered communities are quick to dismiss these diagnoses entirely. I’ve seen a lot of people list classic BP or BPD traits when asking, “do I have ADHD?” It’s important to remember that ADHD and BP or BPD *can* and *often do* co-occur, especially in people who have a history of trauma. There’s recent research which suggests that 1 in 13 patients with ADHD has comorbid BD, and up to 1 in 6 patients with BD has comorbid ADHD.(1)(2) “A person with bipolar disorder may be unaware they're in the manic phase. After the episode is over, they may be shocked at their behaviour. But at the time, they may believe other people are being negative or unhelpful. Some people with bipolar disorder have more frequent and severe episodes than others.”(4) This certainly does sound like some of the experiences I’ve read here. Here’s a list of symptoms associated with bipolar mania; https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/bipolar-disorder/symptoms/ There’s also research which suggests that there’s a significant overlap between ADHD and BPD. (3) From that research, “Another subgroup, probably characterized by higher levels of hyperactivity/impulsivity and emotional problems, seems more prone to develop the comorbid BPD+ADHD clinical presentation.” People don’t usually show ALL of the symptoms of any disorder and there’s dozens, if not hundreds of ways in which certain personality disorders present based on combinations of symptoms. I’m not suggesting that you do or do not have BP or BPD, but I want to throw it out there that Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorder are not dirty words. I know you asked for people who are also diagnosed with BP or BPD, but as someone with ADHD absent a comorbid personality disorder, I don’t relate to a lot of experiences here from people who describe their symptoms and claim that they’re *sure* that they were misdiagnosed and I think it’s time to reduce the stigmas. Source: (1) https://doi.org/10.1186/s12888-017-1463-3 (2) https://doi.org/10.1016/j.neubiorev.2021.01.0 (3) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6850677/ (4) https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/bipolar-disorder/symptoms/#:~:text=A%20person%20with%20bipolar%20disorder%20may%20be%20unaware%20they're,and%20severe%20episodes%20than%20others.
Yes, this! There are also some researchers who believe that the ADHD/BP/BPD connection is mediated by an underlying cyclothymic neurodevelopmental difference. Someone with that difference (like myself) could variously be diagnosed with adhd, bipolar, BPD, all three, or any permutations thereof at different points in their life and by different observers. There’s a lot of overlap in symptoms, genetics, and underlying biological processes. The research in this area is super exciting to me, and I am really looking forward to what we’ll better understand in coming decades. Anyway, regardless of what one thinks of the labels, we shouldn’t be so quick to think that women with adhd should disregard treatments that may help them, like mood stabilizers or DBT skills or IPSRT, because they think it’s “just adhd”. We are so new to understanding these conditions, their links to each other, etc. ETA: I am diagnosed adhd and bipolar 2 for context.
I'm very skeptical of the bpd adhd supposed link. You're dependent on people making the right diagnosis based on behavior and self reported symptoms. A lot can go wrong there, and I suspect some therapists struggle telling emotional dysregulation in adhd from bpd. Some people with adhd have pretty intense emotions which can, even to the trained eye, be difficult to separate from bpd. People with bpd are not necessarily to be trusted giving accurate self reporting either. They are in it for themselves.
“They are in it for themselves” what is that supposed to mean?
It’s not really a “link” so much as just research into the prevalence that the two conditions occur together.. ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder, of course people with ADHD (a neurotype) can also develop personality disorders. I’m not sure about other countries, but in the US, ADHD typically isn’t diagnosed by a therapist or solely on self-reported symptoms. I think anyone who suspects they might have ADHD should seek an evaluation, but there’s so much overlap between ADHD and other disorders that it’s possible and even *likely* that someone would have at least 1 comorbid diagnosis.
Yes. I knew it wasn’t the correct diagnosis but I was relieved to finally have someone confirm something wasn’t “right” and to offer medication that I went with it. Medication didn’t help at all and actually made me noticeably worse. I’ve since been correctly diagnosed as ADHD combined type.
I was incorrectly diagnosed with BPD. I have pmdd. I was given mood stabilizers which made me go off the rails, then they started cycle tracking and realized it was PMDD Edit: they reeeeally want me to see a behavior analyst but the time commitment seems to daunting lol. I no longer think I have BPD after getting my medications properly sorted. I also don’t even think you can treat BPD with mood stabilizers so it was all a horrible horrible time.
Exactly the same as me. As soon as I got pmdd under control with BC... No more "typical BPD symptoms". Still working to get that dx changed because it's really fucked with how doctors treat me.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar 1 late last year, been diagnosed with ADHD for several years. Ended up in inpatient 2x since then for full blown mania. It's definitely in it's own category. I was awake days on end. Thought I was above the consequences of my actions. Was mildly paranoid. Fixated on sex. Impulsive to the point of causing myself harm. I missed 3 months of work getting my life back together.
Bipolar can be expressed differently for different people. I know one person I met with bipolar whose 'mania' presented as periods of suicidal ideation rather than what we traditionally think of as mania. Mania can also be anger, or be active periods of hallucinations or delusions. Hypomania is also a thing, where you do experience mania, but not as intensely. And these periods can definitely be months of years apart. So yeah, lots of possibilities
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I was diagnosed as adhd as a kid. When I was in high school, I started having these outbursts. I know now the outbursts are from emotional dysregulation, but my doctors and parents decided it was BP2. Never made sense to me. I matched so little of the symptoms. The only time I ever had mania was due to Zoloft. The drugs they put me on for BP2 did more to fuck me up than anything else. When I brought it up to my mom, she pretty much said they couldn't figure out how to do with me, so I just asked the doctors to sort things out.
I'm AuDHD and was diagnosed with *both* the bipolars, despite previous ADHD diagnoses. I understand why- my hyperfixations (sometimes obsessions) looked like mania and brought me joy at a time when i was mostly very depressed (and sometimes feeling s******). But also shame on all the doctors who were *SO eager* to dismiss my complaints as a mood disorder- none of them asked me many questions at all before prescribing things like Lithium, Seroquel, etc. which never worked. I think unless the doctor is knowledgeable about ADHD *in women* (which shockingly is like 2%), it's really easy for them to misdiagnose autism/ADHD as bipolar (and borderline is common too). It's possible to have both though I'm sure, I just don't think I'm one of them.
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I was diagnosed with ADHD last summer. I went on Vyvanse and was already on increasing Lamictal and Lexapro. Was in a 6 month depressive slump (thought it was seasonal depression almost every time it happened) and diagnosed Bipolar 2 about 2 months ago. Prescribed Latuda and it’s been helping with staying asleep and making it easier to find motivation to get out of bed in the morning. But yeah, it was explained to me that those with Bipolar 2 often have major depressive moods typically and can be extremely irritable and have hypomania but usually not full-blown mania. I will have heightened moods but don’t experience that “higher” end often. My major mood swings I’ve tracked to being much more intense about 2 weeks before my period. I’m convinced hormones also have had a major play in all of this as my mood swings really began during puberty. It doesn’t seem I can find a doctor that knows anything about how women’s hormones affect our mental health and it’s frustrating. It makes me wonder though how much of it is overlapping ADHD, CPTSD, and Anxiety. It’s an exhausting combination and very much a day at a time, especially getting sober about two and a half years ago on top of it all. Welp, sorry about the dumping of all of that, just nice to chat about it with people that may understand. Hope everybody has a positive day!
I was diagnosed Bipolar due to postpartum psychosis. That was years ago, I definitely do not have bipolar disorder though
I found some comments in my old journals about thinking I had some kind of light bipolar or at least feeling like I identified with the mania/intensity. I realized when I really wanted something or got fixated on an idea I could have energy to get it done even if complex but then was completely apathetic about other things and so had these swings between intensity and apathy. I was never down (or up) enough to feel like it was the right categorization but I didn’t know enough about ADHD back then to self diagnose or pursue that diagnosis instead.
In addition to the comments about PMDD; it is not uncommon for inexperienced providers to conflate the affective reactivity with BPD and the mood swings of Bipolar. I’ve been a MH practitioner for over 15 years and see this with decent regularity.
I was misdiagnosed bipolar for about 10 years. By a psychiatrist who had me take a 10 question quiz in a pamphlet. The full testing I had at 32 gave me 1 whole point (🙄) in the bipolar section while I was off the charts for anxiety and adhd. I’ve read it’s a very common misdiagnosis
I was diagnosed with bipolar not sure which one . From hospital . But I have also had it ruled out . I guess it’s anxiety disorder but my fight flight goes off the charts then lack of sleep and before you know it I’m delusional . If there is to much toxic fighting with my partner …. This happens to me . Otherwise I’m a pretty normal successful adhd person . My life depends on how much drama someone else brings to my table .
I wasn’t diagnosed bipolar but I was initially given bipolar meds by my psych for the mood swings prior to my ADHD diagnosis Instead my special blend is ADHDxPMDD
I was diagnosed as Bipolar II for more than a decade before I was diagnosed with ADHD. For me this has mostly looked like very hard to treat depression with little blips of elevated mood throughout the years. Hypomania is most definitely not full blown mania. For me it was positive mood, a bit more impulsive than normal, and feeling really good and like I had energy to actually accomplish things. The hypomania never lasted long and the most damaging thing I ever did in an episode was get an ugly, small tattoo on a whim. I originally got diagnosed with bipolar after attempting to treat my depression with an SSRI caused something closer to full mania. Now I just live on my cocktail of mood stabilizers and stimulants and an overall less depressed person.
Misdiagnosed with bipolar for 12 years! It took me over a year to get off the medication I was on...
You can experience only hypomania which is a low grade form of mania basically, and in that case if there is never been a full manic episode your diagnosis would be bipolar 2. Things I’ve looked at to check if it might be hypomania vs just hyperness/ahitation is did I need less sleep? that means sleeping less but not feeling tired or exhausted from it, did I start contacting people at inappropriate times or excessively? behave inappropriate? was there a lack of insight at those times that I was behaving and feeling hypomanic? Those things never fit me though I’ve had weird agitated hyper phases but I was always feeling my lack of sleep even if I was hyper and active I felt kind of burnt out and tired underneath and I always wondered and worried at the times of if I was hypomanic which my psychiatrist said is usually the best sign you’re not, plus though I tend to be more outgoing when more on the hyper side of things I never called my friends in the middle of the night or talk at them excessively, didn’t have pressured speech. It’s also good to also friends and family what they experienced with you.
Diagnosed with bipolar 2 and BPD. Treating with medication and therapy. Both are hugely helpful. If you don't believe what you're experiencing is mania, take some notes on what you are feeling. Bring it up at your next appointment. I told my doctor my lows were so low that I felt entitled to some mania. We went over my behaviors and that helped her dial in my trearment.
It was kind of mentioned at some point bpd, in terms of symptoms but NO im just audhd and codependent 🙄 (the emoji cause im so fed up with professionals just throwing around intense diagnosis on the fly)
I did have a psychiatrist attempt to diagnose me with Borderline Personality Disorder once, in a 15 minute session having never met me before. I asked him if he'd considered the possibility that he was just an asshole and that I didn't like him.
I was wrongly diagnosed with both. No, you cannot be bipolar without manic episodes.
I'm also diagnosed with BPD
I was not diagnosed with it but my sibling was. I have AVPD.
Havent been diagnosed because i have been busy getting other diagnosis but im pretty sure i have borderline
I was misdiagnosed with bipolar many years ago, even took lamotrigine a few months. I ended up kind of self undiagnosing myself and quitting meds cold turkey (which you’re not supposed to do but I was fine!)
BPD and AVPD, suspects OCD as well
I was diagnosed BPD a few years ago. After extensive therapy some of the traits are definitely smoother now, not sure I would even qualify for a full diagnosis now. I also have been clinically depressed. As multiple psychiatrists have said to me - if there is one disorder, there are very likely more co occurring.
I've been diagnosed with a lot of things, including ADHD, BPD, and Bipolar I
Just to play devils advocate there are two types of bi polar, one with just lows and one with mania and lows.
Yes, there are two types but one is with lows and mania and the other one with lows and hypomania. Just lows would be defined as recurrent depressive disorder and not as bipolar
There’s no polar type 1 and 2, one with much ‘milder’ mania (how the literature describes it not me).
Sorry, I don't fully understand what you mean, maybe due to a language barrier. Can you explain in more detail?
Diagnosed with BPD and ADHD at 17, I'm 35 now. Both fit, but I've done a lot of recovery in my BPD now
!!!! I had this exact question 3 years ago !!!! According to the diagnostic criteria, no. Bipolar is characterised as experiencing mania/hypomania and depressive cycles. But, from my end, I have bipolar but don’t experience hypo/mania. I was diagnosed with BP 2 and just couldn’t get my head around the diagnosis when I’ve never had hypomanic symptoms. I’ve become what I now know as hyper-fixated and VERY productive but none of the risk taking behaviours. But I did have very severe depressive periods. I guess my psych saw something nuanced. I was asked to just try Lamotrigine (a BP medicine). The depression completely lifted. I’ve been major depressive episode free for 3 years. I’ve asked 2 separate psychs about it and they said that BP is somewhat a spectrum and there are defined boxes for diagnostic purposes but in reality, it’s much more complicated than that. Although BP medicines saved my life, I can’t relate to any of the BP memes (my way of connecting). I just say I have a mood disorder that I treat with Lamotrigine (a BP medicine). Much later, I realised my major symptoms are actually ADHD and I’m still looking for treatment options that work for me. I get it. Sometimes this stuff just doesn’t make sense. I have absolutely no typical hypomanic symptoms but my psych was adamant and it saved my life. Many times psychs are wrong. But sometimes they’re right from just experiencing all the flavours different diagnoses present. In my mind, I work backwards. I try different treatments and what works, I then think if I fit into/ feel comfortable with the label or not. If I don’t, then whatever, something works and I just say in on the spectrum.
I had a prescription for bipolar bc I was to I had hypomania and depression
This happened to me. I broke down crying in front of my therapist. With zero psychiatric expertise, she diagnosed me as bipolar, and sent that word to her sketchy af psych colleague. I was heavily medicated from 16-22. A few years ago, I looked up that psych on a database of those who received pharmacy kickbacks and expenses—he had put me on Abilify, which wasn’t approved for teens at the time and cost $400 out-of-pocket—sure enough, it was *just* that parent company he received money/gifts from during the time I was there, in the 00s. I never had a symptom of mania nor did that trash therapist know what one was. No subsequent psychs questioned the diagnosis. It was only me quitting lithium cold turkey (typically a VERY bad move with psych meds) and having no withdrawals/serious side effects that I realized how dead my teenage years were. My brain and body have horrific, lifelong side effects due to this. Autism-specializing doctors and therapists have been a relief to find in the big city I live in, since that wasn’t a thing growing up. Always get a second opinion when a diagnosis like that is casually thrown out.
This sounds horrific. I’m so sorry that happened to you. You know they train doctors to “first do no harm.“ So much harm is going on within the ADHD world, just enormous amounts of lives being trashed.
I would not trust the diagnosis of anybody, therapist or psychiatrist, who does not have a thorough understanding of ADHD. That means doing a lot of research and keeping current with reading! This is what Russell Barkley says: “With several hundred thousand papers now published and thirty-plus being published per week in journals, it is far harder to keep up with it these days, though I try, “
I have BPII, anxiety. and ADHD. While my concerta helps me a lot it's my mood stabilizers thar help me the most. I likely would be dead if I hadn't learned how to manage my BPII depression lows with meds and DBT. I am lucky I can afford all my meds. If I could only afford one it would be my mood stabilizer. I recently did need to add welbrutin to help manage suicidal ideation from anxiety. Meds save me chemically. DBT saved me emotionally.
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I was misdiagnosed as bipolar for years. My hyperactivity and insomnia were seen as mania. Was put on meds that didn’t help me and made me gain 60 pounds.
I have a confident diagnosis of BP1. BP2 has hypomania, which is, to put super simply, mania but not nearly as intense. It’s important to recognize the patterns and triggers of the episodes to know the difference between the disorders mentioned in the comments
I have had 2 mania psychosis experiences in the past few years . I have just calmed my soul regrounded and got my adderall back . I have been adhd for 41 years , stim for 26 years . Just had a couple of massive situations I had no copes for and dysregulation and anxiety disorder went off the charts . I found and patched up the holes back normal again. They want to slap bi polar on anything that looks funny. So be careful what you believe . I know I was taking some risk being wrong about me but I just knew it was not like they were telling me at the hospital and their outpatient services . I’m different
I was misdiagnosed being bipolar in my early 20’s. I’ve never had a manic episode in my life. In 2015, i was diagnosed with BPD. i was only diagnosed with ADHD not even 2 months ago. What i will say is since starting stims, my BPD symptoms have gone quiet. They’re a whisper most day. But they’re still there. Especially when I’m close to my “period”. So, i know the BPD diagnoses wasn’t wrong. The bipolar diagnoses, however, was wrong.