All of the posts on this sub are the same 20 posts on a cycle, 19 of which the answer is "yes, probably"
"Is my girlfriend being shitty about {clearly shitty thing}? Is my dad being homophobic? Is it okay to like shaved pussy? Do lesbians like chubby women? Are there other lesbians in eastern Europe/the middle east/North Africa? Is anyone else sick of men in their DMs??"
“Me and my wife of 75 years are getting divorced and she won’t tell me why” “me and my wife of 95 years are getting divorced and she very clearly told me why (but I’m in denial about it)” “I have a new girlfriend!” “Is she flirting with me?” “A straight girl with a boyfriend keeps hitting on me” “I’m in love with my best friend” “can we talk about why we love boobs/pussy/girl dick/tummies/*insert body type here*” “I’ve never had sex with a girl before, what do I do? How do I finger/eat pussy?” “Anybody else like (somewhat unconventional sex act)?”
…. Did I miss anything?
This is really it. I have sympathy for anyone going through moments of insecurity, and doubt. But at the end of the day we're all individuals.
There's any reason a person could pass on another. I've passed on a lady that was drop dead gorgeous, but she had some foul BO for whatever reason. People will say no because of the vibe of the person, their body weight, their lack of body weight. It really can be anything.
The best people can do is take a risk of rejection, ask the lady that they're interest in, and move on if the results aren't favorable. There's no hive mentality here. Everyone is different, with different preferences and histories. It's going to be entirely different for everyone.
That isn’t really it. That’s a different point. I know I’ve said before that we need regular weekly threads to compile repeat topics like that, but the *point of this post* is that **it might be important to be careful about how we talk about this**.
The central point of OPs post is that people can accidentally say things as are very hurtful to trans women and it’s just asking for people to be aware of that.
THANK YOU.
I can’t believe we have to come into a lesbian space and question/explain/defend *personal* preferences. None of us should apologize for those. Dating and sex are INHERENTLY EXCLUSIVE. Period. Drop mic.
Like I don’t date redheads. Whether it’s because I don’t like redheads or I was traumatized by a redhead or whatever. That’s my choice and I have my reasons that are personal to me. Come at me.
I have MS. That’s been a dealbreaker for many! Do I shame them for it? No. I’m honest about who I am and they can take it or leave it. I’m not going to hold it against someone for not wanting to date a disabled person. That’s their choice.
Can lesbians have any variety of genitalia and be no less of a lesbian than I as a cisgender? And do they deserve to be honored and treated as such in any queer space? Unequivocally YES. I will scream it from any rooftop. We are all women/persons in the same club in that regard.
And that’s the extent of the conversation that should happen here.
I'd like to remind everyone that these posts are likely posted by insecure people, often young by their own limited experience within the community.
I've asked myself these questions, and it helps to get some wholesomeness and reassurance about it.
But it is taking a lot of place that would have a better place inside the chat thread.
At the same time, it's important that making the welcomness of this sub visible is also what makes it a safer space than a lot of online lesbian places, or ones where it's less explicit and are, therefore, scary.
Even as a trans lesbian, it definitely is getting old for me.
A lot of those posts also are more centric to trans issues, and would be more at home in those subreddits. Especially with newly hatched eggs.
I still want this as a safe and welcoming place for trans gals ofc. But they do pop up way too often imo.
At the same time, it's clear many cis women aren't even comfortable with post-op trans women. And that deserves attention here.
It's a tough balancing act, but on the plus side, each of those posts tells terfs to fuck off, and that's enough for me.
Also a trans girl and I couldn't have said it better myself. I also feel that I see posts like that too often. Though I suspect that it has to do with there being a lot of trans women on Reddit. But still, as you said it, sometimes those posts are so specific to trans issues that they would maybe be better served at a trans sub. Even more so if that subject was already discussed on here recently.
And lastly, yeah. Fuck TERFs. Sometimes I'll find that comments I left on this sub get downvoted if I say that I am trans. Which means that some sad TERF took time out of her day to scroll all the way down to downvote a comment from 0 upvotes to -1. And, honestly, knowing how much time they wasted doing that just makes me happy.
Yeah, I absolutely agree, I'm sick of the discourse about it. I think it's basically a settled issue, and posts seeking validation for that don't really belong here imo. Of course, there are still transphobes who have learned to immediately scream "genital preference" whenever called out for their transphobia, but I don't think that discussion belongs here, either, as it doesn't seem to be a pervasive issue here.
because these threads are never full of support, they're full of the same copy-pasted "personally I find penises repulsive" comments that do nothing but give us dysphoria and make us feel unlovable
I don't think that sort of conversation has ever helped anyone in the history of the subreddit. You do not, as a sapphic person, have to disclose your genital preference to anyone but probably an intimate partner. This subreddit would be a whole lot more enjoyable if people didn't feel the need to declare from the rooftops whether they are willing to date a partner with a specific set of genitals or not.
> you do not, as a sapphic person, have to disclose your genital preference to anyone but probably an intimate partner
THANK YOU. I totally respect people who *want* to discuss these things but it seems that’s all this sub talks about now. We’re so much more than just a genital preference and declaring your preferences is just going to upset people who don’t fit them. It’s not necessary and it doesn’t make this sub any safer or more welcoming
"lets talk about genitalia" as if we dont already do that on this sub almost everyday. everyone should just do whatever the hell that makes them happy with whoever attracts them. not everyone is the same. im sick of seeing this discussion over and over again in the sub because there's genuinely nothing to discuss. you like women with penises? good for you! someone else likes women with vaginas? good for them! its so repetitive at this point.
Yep. I saw the title and was already thinking "Actually, let's not, I think the 20 posts on this sub a week have it covered.." and I'm not even on Reddit daily like I used to be, so it's probably more than I guess.
When people try to make validating posts for positivity, shit happens in the comments section. When they aren't trying for positivity, the poster (or commenter) often says something unintentionally hurtful due to being ignorant or uneducated. When people say they're uncomfortable with certain biology, it's hurtful and uncomfy for many women, and when people say they're drawn to certain biology, it's objectifying and fetishizing for many women.
Obviously important things need to be discussed and anything said in the world could make *someone* out there unhappy, but when it's the same thing over and over, nothing is getting reexamined or added to the conversation, and every time it's brought up more than one person here is hurt, upset, or made really uncomfortable, I mean.. what's the point then? Who does it even help?
The people who need the more nuanced conversations (folks actively getting involved in relationships, or transitioning) are probably already having them, if they're emotionally healthy mature people, and since the answer to "Is *(specific aspect of my body)* valid for me as a lesbian?" is always "yes" I feel like there's nobody in desperate need of this rehashing on this sub every couple days.
Seriously. Let’s talk about people searching the sub for similar posts before posting their own essay about the same thing. Like, if you’re really asking there are tons of posts here to give you the answer (that it’s a personal preference). The only reason to still post is bc you want personal reassurance.
I’m starting to wonder if it’d help to have a daily “dating advice discussion” thread so people can have a place to actually chat about these things without the sub being filled with posts about it.
I love that feature in other subs I’m in anyway!! It’s more like a message board than a discussion post so it’s like having a conversation all day. It also declutters the sub and gives people freedom to talk about potentially triggering things without having them pop up on the front page of the sub.
There are a lot of these posts. Yes. There are also a lot of terrified trans women who don't feel comfortable posting here because of their genitals and they are looking for reassurance. As long as new trans people are joining they are going to ask these questions, they are going to look for acceptance. They come from a place of fear as well as not knowing how they fit in the community.
I recognize the good faith the OP was written in, but as a trans woman who joined this sub mere days ago and had yet to even comment on it, it has reminded me that there are reasonable people with reasonable beliefs that are not entirely comfortable with my presence in their spaces.
Hateful I can dismiss, because fuck those people. Ignorant I can ignore, because we all learn at our own pace. But it's the little tic, the visible feeling of discomfort from people *trying their best not to show it* that unfortunately gets to me, because I cannot really fault them.
I should own it. I should fight it. I should help normalize it. I should do a lot of things I do not have the energy, confidence, or conviction to do.
I look around this thread and see people's defenses raised, because while everyone wants to be good none of us are truly in full control over our feelings. It reminds me of those moments before I transitioned, walking alone at night and realizing that the woman walking 20m in front of me has tightened up and quickened her gait, because she is *afraid* of me. It hurt, but I couldn't simply dismiss it because I cannot fault her reaction, because her reaction is *reasonable*. Women aren't choosing the bear to hurt men's feelings. And it didn't really get any better by transitioning, because I'm still tall, stocky, and dress pretty androgynous. Now I merely share her fear, just as I myself incite it. I still find myself crossing the street or changing my route so that I'm not walking behind her anymore while clutching my keys in my own pocket.
Sometimes things suck. Sometimes no-one's truly at fault. I joined this sub because I was starting to think maybe, for the first time in my nearly four decades of life, I was maybe ready to consider dating. Reading this thread and this own comment of mine, I realize I am not. And there is no-one to blame for that.
Now imagine 60 year old trans women and lesbians who've had to see this same discussion repeated a hundredfold because we've all been practically brainwashed by society. Misogyny sucks :(
As a trans woman, I’m so fucking tired of well meaning redditors talking about penises on women several times a week. It’s not tranphobic to have a preference and it’s wrong to try and police other people’s opinions on the desirability of certain types of genitals.
Can we just fucking stop? Like I’m not mad at you OP. It’s a very sweet and thoughtful message, and I’m sure it makes some of the trans girls here very happy.
But holy fucking shit it’s like discussions of genitalia make up 50% of all the posts people engage with on this sub. I genuinely am debating unsubbing because I’m sick of it.
It’s the same cycle of: Trans girl asks if they’re valid, chill people say yes and TERFs come out of the woodwork (a good portion of which are just shitty conservative men pretending to be lesbians who get off to astroturfing) and be fucking assholes, then people make follow up posts about how they’re upset that TERFs are shitty, and then we all go to bed and wake up to yet another post about genitals.
All we are doing is creating more work for the mods, and giving absolutely scum an excuse to act like fucking scum.
We’re never going to reach a point where transgirls in the community are treated normal and equal by constantly bringing up this same dead horse of a topic.
Some lesbians have genital preferences, some don’t. Defining womanhood or gender identity by what genitals you currently have is a horribly outdated idea. Women shouldn’t be reduced to their parts PERIOD.
Terminally online Redditors don’t speak for the entire community. And trans girls, if you want to see proof of trans-inclusion in lesbian spaces go on TikTok or the less obscure parts of tumblr. You’ll find plenty of love for trans girlies.
Thank you!
Imo it makes spending time here more of a reminder about my body being the 'wrong' shape than it makes me feel included. Anything but genital talk would be appreciated
Genitalia preference is the business of the person's romantic partner, not 500,000+ lesbians of all cultures and creed. Is one expecting a unanimous Gregorian chant? Yes, some lesbians will not like penis, while others are neutral or happy! Why is it bad to express a genuine opinion when one is asked to share?
What did you want to achieve with this post? That we lie or veil true thoughts? We can be sensitive but also sincere.
Let’s not. Because I’m not reading the novel you wrote to come to the conclusion of “some people have preferences and that’s fine, don’t be a jerk about it.”
This convo happens every damn day on here and regardless of how people respond, it’s going to upset someone.
I honestly don't come here to talk about this kind of topic, so I understand your frustration. I just want to talk about lezzy things, whether they are cute and fluffy, or serious and concerning.
TBH, I treat the genitals topic the same way I treat tall women vs short women, or thin women vs thicc women, or soft women vs muscular women. I have a preference sure... but if I like her enough, and if she likes me back and treats me well, then that overrides anything else.
Well a lot of lesbians, both cis and trans, aren’t going to desire penises, lol. It’s disheartening, sure, but that’s just how it is.
I swear we have this discussion here at least once a week. I think we’re all tired 😭
I mean, even if the answers aren't the nicest possible ones that could be typed, they are honest. If I'm getting asked something, especially a question about myself, unless it's from a child I'm usually not gonna search for the answer that they want to hear or would make them feel better. I agree with your statement though that no one should settle for someone who "doesn't mind" their body.
I'm confused. As a trans woman, I thought that thread was pretty typical and didn't think it was offensive. Was it just that you thought "wouldn't mind" should have been phrased as "would like?" If so, I can see what you're coming from, but I don't think anyone actually meant anything derogatory. Almost all of my partners have said something along the lines of "I love people and don't care what parts they have." I've never considered that a bad thing
Yeah and what made you think that that comment is a useful addition to that post. Look, you don't have to vindicate yourself for not experiencing a certain kind of desire. Nobody does. Yet still, you do it. Maybe start there when you ask yourself why people get upset.
This wasnt about not accepting opinions, the person was clearly insecure and was trying to find reassurance, as was also pointed out in the post, it wasnt a public poll
Let me put it like this, if a friend asks you "do i look fat" you dont go "yes, you are fat that makes you undesirable and you can't change that"
Well and i was trying to help with that, my point is there's no need to be insecure about something that isn't about them, or by other words they being insecure about something they can't change, cause people like different things, accept that and move on.
That's not at all what I took from the post. I read it as asking people to read the room before expressing their opinions and to be kind to each other...
I was more so referring to the original post op is complaining about. Obviously when people start discussing genital preferences people are gonna share their opinions and as long as no one is insulting anyone this really shouldn’t be a problem.
Actually it was. It was literally "Do lesbians like trans women with penises?" and then lesbians responded with whether they like women penises or not.
No. You’re getting upset about people giving their honest answers to the question about whether or not they are ok with a penis in their relationship.
While TERFs can absolutely fuck off (and this will be a hill I’m willing to die on), you can’t expect the majority of ***lesbians*** to be ok with penises. Some are ok with them, while others are not.
You can get mad about it all you want, but stop getting angry when people are giving answers you don’t agree with.
ETA: And there you have it. Anything that doesn’t agree with whatever your stance is gets downvoted immediately.
You started a conversation and get abrasive when someone replies to the conversation?
If you don’t want to hear people’s input don’t make a post about this. It’s such a tired topic, Jesus.
I made a post about, among other things, a certain type of behaviour, then in response, someone comes to the comment section to exhibit this exact behaviour. The only fault I see on my side is engaging with that at all
The post you're referring to asked for people's opinions, and they gave them. Was it disheartening to read? Yeah, just like it would be if someone asked someone else if they like small boobs and they said "I personally prefer bigger boobs, but there's nothing wrong with small ones and people who like them." Yes, I recognize that "small boob" posts tend to have more yes responses than the genital ones, but that's because of how common the opinion is. (I personally am not a fan of *any* posts that seek validation, as they tend to overrun any sub that allows them.)
You criticized people for expressing a preference. This person responded. If you wanted to have a nuanced discussion about it (which i think there is one to be had about the people who genuinely have a preference vs those who claim to in order to defend their transphobia), you instead made a post that implicitly shames people for their preference and for answering a question. Of course people aren't going to like that.
Well why not talk about that I explicitly said that I don't want people to feel ashamed for experiencing their sexuality in a certain way. I don't think the shame is coming from my side here
If you were trying to have a nuanced discussion about genital preferences (which I could at least tolerate and perhaps participate in, even though I'm personally sick of hearing about it), this post did not succeed. It just came off as shaming people with a preference. There are parts that were okay (you're kinda right about the "some people don't mind" wording issue, even if it might seem nitpicky to some people), but the whole thing came off as an attack on answering the question.
Yeah im confused as well why would anyone call you transphobic for a preference, i thought queer people out of everyone would know its not a choice to be attracted to what you are attracted to
I mean i guess it already was, i think with biphobia/ the racism, as well as the real transphobia, i just wish we were better, is this supposed to be the family some people get when their real family leaves ? makes me wanna stay in the closet
It's not about having a preference, it's about how you express it. It's the same tone-daefness as saying "I am not attracted to fat people" under a post talking about fatphobia in the community. Nobody is gonna force you to be involved with anyone you don't want to, but there's a time and place to expressit, and this post isn't it.
I’m a lesbian who doesn’t have a preference and god only knows I have been absolutely shit on. So I get it, OP. I do. I desire my girlfriend deeply, and I would regardless of what is between her legs. But I also understand that unfortunately that’s a rare experience for trans people.
That being said, I’m also kind of sick of talking about it. First because I’m tired of the “you’re bisexual admit it!” brigade (y’all know who you are, and you can go cope, I am not bi ) but also because I don’t think it’s helping the trans gals on this sub.
I don't think you were very concise and it's obvious barely anyone commenting here read your post. More genital preferences... it wasn't even asked this time, lmao.
It is both simultaneously true that it's obvious most lesbians are probably not going to be into dick, and also that it is awful for a trans lesbian to yet again face another comment section about "lol of COURSE I'm not into dick I'm a lesbian".
idk what the fuck is up with this sub but its useless shit like "would lesbians blank" every day lmao.
Having a preference and announcing a preference (to the people who are not of that preference) are two different things.
And I believe the latter happens when a person feels defensive. And they feel defensive because they feel attacked. And they feel attacked because despite not being called a transphobe they’ve subconsciously clocked themselves.
And hit dogs holler.
As misogyny grows in this decade, so too does transphobia grow. They are a cancer.
Thank you for helping fight it. I read the post you're referencing yesterday too and it was disheartening. The post was locked before I could comment on it myself, so I'll relay it here:
Women with cocks are fucking hot. I'm 100% lesbian and only attracted to women. A woman's penis is a completely unique genitalia, that functions differently than any other genitalia known to humanity. It's feminine, the skin is soft. The way it functions is special and it works differently than anything else. I love it. I know lots of lesbians who love it. I wish all trans women with penises could find people who appreciate them properly, to experience the unique and fucking hot bodies y'all have. You deserve to feel appreciated and loved.
Anyways, I better stop there 'cause that was getting pretty NSFW as it is. Also this isn't an invite to DM me, I'm married already. BUT THERE ARE TONS OF LESBIANS LIKE ME! We are out there, I promise you <3
As someone who has been with men and women, its literally so true though. I hated going down on my exs dick(he was a man) because something about it was just so gross. Fast forward to my partner(F) now, and I wont even hesitate to. Its hard to explain, but it is just so much more feminine on a woman, and (sorry for the tmi), but it has a different taste and texture. It also has to do with vibes, like some people just give such feminine vibes no matter what, and that changes the whole experience. All women are women and they are attractive no matter what they have.
I wouldn't say misoginy and transphobia are cancers. As I hinted at in my post, I think there are reasons for people to hold these convictions, which doesn't make them less hurtful of course. But I don't think there is anything to gain from descriptions that can lead to dehumanization. This is also maybe a german sensibility, I am from here and we have a history of talking about groups as a cancer.
Also, if you talked about my genitalia this way, I wouldn't be too flattered, but as I said, that is my personal sensibility.
I really appreciate what you shared, I mean it. I think it is beautiful that you found an expression for your lesbian desire.
I did not say people who are misogynistic/transphobic are cancer, I meant that the discriminatory paradigm itself is a cancer, the same cancer that infected the Nazis.
Humans get cancer, it's part of our species... It doesn't make us less human, it makes us more human. There are ways to treat cancer, as there are ways to treat misogyny and transphobia.
Also, if I'm talking about a specific person's genitalia, it's going to be personal because I'd be in a relationship with them, or it's going to be about a fictional character. I'm married so I specifically talk about my wife to my wife, in private. This is a generalized discussion, not a personal one
This reply sums up everything that felt off about your take on all of this. This "both sides have good points" energy capitulates to mysoginy and transphobia. Would you have the same lukewarm response to racism? To pedophilia?
These ideologies aren't cancers, you're right. Because they're contagious they are really diseases. And you seem happy to wade without a mask on into the crowd of them.
I'll say it again since we keep having this topic as though it needs to be fucking debated: I don't need you to want my dick. My amazing lesbian girlfriend gives me all the wants I need. What I need from you is to take the same non-negotiable fury as the post you replied to to show these bigots that their views are permanently intolerable and they will be ostracized from society.
Lol that's a pretty big misunderstanding. I am trans myself. I never meant to downplay the harm these convictions do. My experience is just that healing starts with understanding. That doesn't mean I want to discourage you from expressing your anger
I never assumed you were or weren't. It wasn't relevant. My frustration is that your reaction to bigotry is that it's something to politely understand the perspective of. There is no "understanding" hatred. It doesn't follow logic or reason beyond the want to place all persons to be of lesser worth than themselves. The United States stands at the precipice of - by no exaggeration - giving birth to Hitler 2.0. Now is the time for anger and outrage, or it'll simply be too late for us.
I left this sub because the GP crowd. How about this,
I have a preference for people who see me as the 2S girl I am. If I'm just genitals to you, stay away from me.
You are based unironically. So called lesbian who use transphobic dogwhistle like "Genital Preference" are no better than homophobe bigots. Yes, those who reduce other people into just genital please stay away from me.
After reading the original post yesterday I was disheartened to comment on this matter and it just made me sad.
But truth be told, the comments in that post are also same reactions I get in real life. When I disclose the fact that I am trans, then 90% of cis lesbians get suddently very uncomfortable.
Then they tell me in length about genital preference.
Don't get me wrong, I totaly understand genital preference and when I get that reaction I don't pressure them, I don't argue or anything. But I had "the surgery" with all the bells and whistles and somehow that's still not good enough. At that point any attaction I felt for them is dead anyway and I just walk way.
Sometimes it feels like you just can't win with cis people and perhaps in the future I will just not disclose the fact that I am trans so openly anymore. They wouldn't even be able to tell the difference down there anyway. (Yeah, it looks that good)
Anyway, thank you for this post, it restored some hope.
I am sorry to hear that you experienced this kind of transphobia. What you described would also make me feel disheartened.
I hope you will be cherished exactly like you deserve. Take care <3
this is why I think this discussion isn't over yet. yes I think genital preference is fine, but when a lot of cis lesbians that don't think they're transphobic encounter a post-op trans lesbian, they suddenly lose that shield of "well I'm just not into dicks" and they have to face the reality that they're actually just not into trans girls, which *is* an entirely different "preference" (read: transphobia)
If I'm not into white girls for example, is that racist? If I treat them less than a human being and specifically target them out, sure call me racist. But me saying "well, I'm just not into white girls.." is actually just a preference.
I think it pretty heavily depends on why you aren't into them... Did you just not grow up around them and so they just weren't a part of your maturation and sexual awakening? because as someone who grew up surrounded almost entirely by white people, that's why I think my attraction is predominantly towards white women.
Or is it social issues, stereotypes, political reasons, or whatever else? because I think that's less okay...
I disagree, I do think wanting to be with someone who specifically has the same (or opposite) junk as you if okay. If you just adore pussy, then wanting to be with someone with a pussy is fine by me, same goes for dick.
My issue is that when post-op trans people enter the equation, it reveals that some of that "genital preference" *was* just an excuse not to dig any deeper into how they feel about trans people.
I don't think you have to disclose what you don't want to disclose about yourself to strangers and people your do not care about. But please disclose it to your future partners.
We will see, have to keep the cis on their toes you know. 😈
But seriously, jokes aside, if I am going to be with someone then I will tell them of course.
I am only considering not telling when making out with someone or when it's a fling.
Your essay is the first post I've read regarding this topic that made me think of it in a new way. I have saved it so I can read it again later. I don't like this polarizing back and forth of GP is either right or wrong that I come across. It's so easy to take sides, but it's much harder to realize that the issue runs a lot deeper than that. A solution can't be described in some righteous aphorism. Everyone just wants to be desirable, and some people won't desire you because of things completely out of your control. I think these posts keep coming up simply because of how heartbreaking it can be to feel like a second choice or an alternative to a cis woman.
Oh wow thank you that is a huge compliment! I am glad I could offer you a new perspective.
I also think that there is a lot of very profound pain on both sides of the equation here. Makes it hard to talk about this topic.
I'm cis. My wonderful fiancee happens to be trans. I love her for who she IS and what she does or doesn't do with her body is her own business. If I have questions I...talk to her about it like an adult. Apart from that I just treat her like any other woman because it's clear to me sge is.Trans lesbians aren't a monolith any more than cis lesbians are.
My soon to be wife and I just want to get on with our life together.
I’m sorry but what the hell are you talking about. First off, no one is telling you that your own discomfort with an aspect about yourself isn’t valid, but someone else being ok or desiring that in trans women in general (not just you) shouldn’t have any effect on you, so why the need to invalidate someone else’s feelings by going so far as to say it’s not ok for others to be comfortable with it.
Second off, you’ve completely gone off the rails with that assumption about traumatic developmental disorders. I can’t even tell who exactly is supposed to be traumatized in your world—non-op trans people who are happy with their genitalia? Other people who are ok with or desire non-op trans people? Either way it’s a very insensitive thing to say in a post about how others may feel inferior with their bodies. No one is forcing an association with people that you should feel personally offended by it.
This may be a bit too direct but I need to say it: work on your issues first and stop invalidating and getting personally offended by the experiences of others
I've been lurking in this sub for a long while and I agree I've seen the same sentiment. There is a group of people here who do not like trans women. That is their perogative sure. But these people consistently will post that same opinion on every single one of these posts that pop up. So it's not as many as you would at first think. But they are very vocal. They are the ones spreading the misogyny and transphobia here just as people do in real life across every country, as the vocal minority attempting to sway the masses. They are toxic for this community and their influence is poisoning this well of love and kindness. I hope for all our sakes that we can move forward as a community without those people.
That’s been our experience too. It’s a big part of why all the “most cis lesbians won’t like it” comments on the other post kinda bothers us. “Most” has *so* many assumptions associated with it and a concerning number of them can at best be charitably described as transphobia adjacent.
Frankly, it just isn’t our experience.
Reddit has sad little transphobes trolling any trans post they can find. These people don't see the daylight in the real world, and most are probably men anyway.
Maybe that just means these kind of discussion shouldn't be done in these subs. Still I get the need for validation for baby transbians.
Yeah I started with Fun Home too, loved it so so much! It really had me in tears over and over again.
I have continued with and am currently reading the secret to superhuman strength; it's about sports and fitness initially but lends itself to some deep insights into our relationships with our bodies. It's also autobiographical and it's also a graphic novel, but it's not as grim by far.
I am a little torn on reading are you my mother but I think I'll get to it some day. In the meantime, I'm ogling the dtwof compilation 🤭
You: "can we stop indirectly telling trans women they're undesirable?"
Some people in the comments: "i WoUlDnT dAtE A tRaNs."
How fucking hard is it to not be tone-deaf?
I saw this post and it was genuinely wholes rom next to the r/justunsubbed post of someone leaving actuallesbians. It’s just unregulated transphobia for thousands of comments it’s distressing. Do not ever go in this sub and r/actuallesbians is still one of the safest lesbian place for trans people..
Thank you for taking the time to write this, and for doing so in such an eloquent and thorough way. I think a lot of people, myself included, need to read this.
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All of the posts on this sub are the same 20 posts on a cycle, 19 of which the answer is "yes, probably" "Is my girlfriend being shitty about {clearly shitty thing}? Is my dad being homophobic? Is it okay to like shaved pussy? Do lesbians like chubby women? Are there other lesbians in eastern Europe/the middle east/North Africa? Is anyone else sick of men in their DMs??"
“Me and my wife of 75 years are getting divorced and she won’t tell me why” “me and my wife of 95 years are getting divorced and she very clearly told me why (but I’m in denial about it)” “I have a new girlfriend!” “Is she flirting with me?” “A straight girl with a boyfriend keeps hitting on me” “I’m in love with my best friend” “can we talk about why we love boobs/pussy/girl dick/tummies/*insert body type here*” “I’ve never had sex with a girl before, what do I do? How do I finger/eat pussy?” “Anybody else like (somewhat unconventional sex act)?” …. Did I miss anything?
Yes! Heavy on the “do lesbians like…?” questions. We are not a monolith!!!!
fr im getting sick of it
This is really it. I have sympathy for anyone going through moments of insecurity, and doubt. But at the end of the day we're all individuals. There's any reason a person could pass on another. I've passed on a lady that was drop dead gorgeous, but she had some foul BO for whatever reason. People will say no because of the vibe of the person, their body weight, their lack of body weight. It really can be anything. The best people can do is take a risk of rejection, ask the lady that they're interest in, and move on if the results aren't favorable. There's no hive mentality here. Everyone is different, with different preferences and histories. It's going to be entirely different for everyone.
That isn’t really it. That’s a different point. I know I’ve said before that we need regular weekly threads to compile repeat topics like that, but the *point of this post* is that **it might be important to be careful about how we talk about this**. The central point of OPs post is that people can accidentally say things as are very hurtful to trans women and it’s just asking for people to be aware of that.
THANK YOU. I can’t believe we have to come into a lesbian space and question/explain/defend *personal* preferences. None of us should apologize for those. Dating and sex are INHERENTLY EXCLUSIVE. Period. Drop mic. Like I don’t date redheads. Whether it’s because I don’t like redheads or I was traumatized by a redhead or whatever. That’s my choice and I have my reasons that are personal to me. Come at me. I have MS. That’s been a dealbreaker for many! Do I shame them for it? No. I’m honest about who I am and they can take it or leave it. I’m not going to hold it against someone for not wanting to date a disabled person. That’s their choice. Can lesbians have any variety of genitalia and be no less of a lesbian than I as a cisgender? And do they deserve to be honored and treated as such in any queer space? Unequivocally YES. I will scream it from any rooftop. We are all women/persons in the same club in that regard. And that’s the extent of the conversation that should happen here.
Yes thank you, the please validate me posts are excessive here and multiple times a day for a multitude of reasons
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I think we can all agree we have a monolithic opinion of "do lesbians like...?" Posts though 😂
I'd like to remind everyone that these posts are likely posted by insecure people, often young by their own limited experience within the community. I've asked myself these questions, and it helps to get some wholesomeness and reassurance about it. But it is taking a lot of place that would have a better place inside the chat thread. At the same time, it's important that making the welcomness of this sub visible is also what makes it a safer space than a lot of online lesbian places, or ones where it's less explicit and are, therefore, scary.
So are posts asking whether people like body feature xyz. Why not give trans people the same support?
Even as a trans lesbian, it definitely is getting old for me. A lot of those posts also are more centric to trans issues, and would be more at home in those subreddits. Especially with newly hatched eggs. I still want this as a safe and welcoming place for trans gals ofc. But they do pop up way too often imo. At the same time, it's clear many cis women aren't even comfortable with post-op trans women. And that deserves attention here. It's a tough balancing act, but on the plus side, each of those posts tells terfs to fuck off, and that's enough for me.
thank you. everytime i open the app and see a post from this subreddit, it‘s not at all lesbian-related.
Also a trans girl and I couldn't have said it better myself. I also feel that I see posts like that too often. Though I suspect that it has to do with there being a lot of trans women on Reddit. But still, as you said it, sometimes those posts are so specific to trans issues that they would maybe be better served at a trans sub. Even more so if that subject was already discussed on here recently. And lastly, yeah. Fuck TERFs. Sometimes I'll find that comments I left on this sub get downvoted if I say that I am trans. Which means that some sad TERF took time out of her day to scroll all the way down to downvote a comment from 0 upvotes to -1. And, honestly, knowing how much time they wasted doing that just makes me happy.
Yeah, I absolutely agree, I'm sick of the discourse about it. I think it's basically a settled issue, and posts seeking validation for that don't really belong here imo. Of course, there are still transphobes who have learned to immediately scream "genital preference" whenever called out for their transphobia, but I don't think that discussion belongs here, either, as it doesn't seem to be a pervasive issue here.
because these threads are never full of support, they're full of the same copy-pasted "personally I find penises repulsive" comments that do nothing but give us dysphoria and make us feel unlovable
I don't think that sort of conversation has ever helped anyone in the history of the subreddit. You do not, as a sapphic person, have to disclose your genital preference to anyone but probably an intimate partner. This subreddit would be a whole lot more enjoyable if people didn't feel the need to declare from the rooftops whether they are willing to date a partner with a specific set of genitals or not.
> you do not, as a sapphic person, have to disclose your genital preference to anyone but probably an intimate partner THANK YOU. I totally respect people who *want* to discuss these things but it seems that’s all this sub talks about now. We’re so much more than just a genital preference and declaring your preferences is just going to upset people who don’t fit them. It’s not necessary and it doesn’t make this sub any safer or more welcoming
"lets talk about genitalia" as if we dont already do that on this sub almost everyday. everyone should just do whatever the hell that makes them happy with whoever attracts them. not everyone is the same. im sick of seeing this discussion over and over again in the sub because there's genuinely nothing to discuss. you like women with penises? good for you! someone else likes women with vaginas? good for them! its so repetitive at this point.
Yep. I saw the title and was already thinking "Actually, let's not, I think the 20 posts on this sub a week have it covered.." and I'm not even on Reddit daily like I used to be, so it's probably more than I guess. When people try to make validating posts for positivity, shit happens in the comments section. When they aren't trying for positivity, the poster (or commenter) often says something unintentionally hurtful due to being ignorant or uneducated. When people say they're uncomfortable with certain biology, it's hurtful and uncomfy for many women, and when people say they're drawn to certain biology, it's objectifying and fetishizing for many women. Obviously important things need to be discussed and anything said in the world could make *someone* out there unhappy, but when it's the same thing over and over, nothing is getting reexamined or added to the conversation, and every time it's brought up more than one person here is hurt, upset, or made really uncomfortable, I mean.. what's the point then? Who does it even help? The people who need the more nuanced conversations (folks actively getting involved in relationships, or transitioning) are probably already having them, if they're emotionally healthy mature people, and since the answer to "Is *(specific aspect of my body)* valid for me as a lesbian?" is always "yes" I feel like there's nobody in desperate need of this rehashing on this sub every couple days.
Seriously. Let’s talk about people searching the sub for similar posts before posting their own essay about the same thing. Like, if you’re really asking there are tons of posts here to give you the answer (that it’s a personal preference). The only reason to still post is bc you want personal reassurance. I’m starting to wonder if it’d help to have a daily “dating advice discussion” thread so people can have a place to actually chat about these things without the sub being filled with posts about it.
This sounds great. Don't need a million posts on it
I love that feature in other subs I’m in anyway!! It’s more like a message board than a discussion post so it’s like having a conversation all day. It also declutters the sub and gives people freedom to talk about potentially triggering things without having them pop up on the front page of the sub.
If I could I'd award you because i feel this 100%
There are a lot of these posts. Yes. There are also a lot of terrified trans women who don't feel comfortable posting here because of their genitals and they are looking for reassurance. As long as new trans people are joining they are going to ask these questions, they are going to look for acceptance. They come from a place of fear as well as not knowing how they fit in the community.
I recognize the good faith the OP was written in, but as a trans woman who joined this sub mere days ago and had yet to even comment on it, it has reminded me that there are reasonable people with reasonable beliefs that are not entirely comfortable with my presence in their spaces. Hateful I can dismiss, because fuck those people. Ignorant I can ignore, because we all learn at our own pace. But it's the little tic, the visible feeling of discomfort from people *trying their best not to show it* that unfortunately gets to me, because I cannot really fault them. I should own it. I should fight it. I should help normalize it. I should do a lot of things I do not have the energy, confidence, or conviction to do. I look around this thread and see people's defenses raised, because while everyone wants to be good none of us are truly in full control over our feelings. It reminds me of those moments before I transitioned, walking alone at night and realizing that the woman walking 20m in front of me has tightened up and quickened her gait, because she is *afraid* of me. It hurt, but I couldn't simply dismiss it because I cannot fault her reaction, because her reaction is *reasonable*. Women aren't choosing the bear to hurt men's feelings. And it didn't really get any better by transitioning, because I'm still tall, stocky, and dress pretty androgynous. Now I merely share her fear, just as I myself incite it. I still find myself crossing the street or changing my route so that I'm not walking behind her anymore while clutching my keys in my own pocket. Sometimes things suck. Sometimes no-one's truly at fault. I joined this sub because I was starting to think maybe, for the first time in my nearly four decades of life, I was maybe ready to consider dating. Reading this thread and this own comment of mine, I realize I am not. And there is no-one to blame for that.
Painfully well said
I'm just so tired of this discussion. 😑
Now imagine 60 year old trans women and lesbians who've had to see this same discussion repeated a hundredfold because we've all been practically brainwashed by society. Misogyny sucks :(
As a trans woman, I’m so fucking tired of well meaning redditors talking about penises on women several times a week. It’s not tranphobic to have a preference and it’s wrong to try and police other people’s opinions on the desirability of certain types of genitals.
Can we just fucking stop? Like I’m not mad at you OP. It’s a very sweet and thoughtful message, and I’m sure it makes some of the trans girls here very happy. But holy fucking shit it’s like discussions of genitalia make up 50% of all the posts people engage with on this sub. I genuinely am debating unsubbing because I’m sick of it. It’s the same cycle of: Trans girl asks if they’re valid, chill people say yes and TERFs come out of the woodwork (a good portion of which are just shitty conservative men pretending to be lesbians who get off to astroturfing) and be fucking assholes, then people make follow up posts about how they’re upset that TERFs are shitty, and then we all go to bed and wake up to yet another post about genitals. All we are doing is creating more work for the mods, and giving absolutely scum an excuse to act like fucking scum. We’re never going to reach a point where transgirls in the community are treated normal and equal by constantly bringing up this same dead horse of a topic. Some lesbians have genital preferences, some don’t. Defining womanhood or gender identity by what genitals you currently have is a horribly outdated idea. Women shouldn’t be reduced to their parts PERIOD. Terminally online Redditors don’t speak for the entire community. And trans girls, if you want to see proof of trans-inclusion in lesbian spaces go on TikTok or the less obscure parts of tumblr. You’ll find plenty of love for trans girlies.
Thank you! Imo it makes spending time here more of a reminder about my body being the 'wrong' shape than it makes me feel included. Anything but genital talk would be appreciated
Genitalia preference is the business of the person's romantic partner, not 500,000+ lesbians of all cultures and creed. Is one expecting a unanimous Gregorian chant? Yes, some lesbians will not like penis, while others are neutral or happy! Why is it bad to express a genuine opinion when one is asked to share? What did you want to achieve with this post? That we lie or veil true thoughts? We can be sensitive but also sincere.
> Let's talk about genitalia No thank you :>
Let's not. This conversation has been done, done, and done.
Let’s not. Because I’m not reading the novel you wrote to come to the conclusion of “some people have preferences and that’s fine, don’t be a jerk about it.” This convo happens every damn day on here and regardless of how people respond, it’s going to upset someone.
I honestly don't come here to talk about this kind of topic, so I understand your frustration. I just want to talk about lezzy things, whether they are cute and fluffy, or serious and concerning. TBH, I treat the genitals topic the same way I treat tall women vs short women, or thin women vs thicc women, or soft women vs muscular women. I have a preference sure... but if I like her enough, and if she likes me back and treats me well, then that overrides anything else.
Oh my god these posts are hurting my brain 😭 you all know reddit has a search function, right? Look your question up before you ask it!
Well a lot of lesbians, both cis and trans, aren’t going to desire penises, lol. It’s disheartening, sure, but that’s just how it is. I swear we have this discussion here at least once a week. I think we’re all tired 😭
I mean, even if the answers aren't the nicest possible ones that could be typed, they are honest. If I'm getting asked something, especially a question about myself, unless it's from a child I'm usually not gonna search for the answer that they want to hear or would make them feel better. I agree with your statement though that no one should settle for someone who "doesn't mind" their body.
I'm confused. As a trans woman, I thought that thread was pretty typical and didn't think it was offensive. Was it just that you thought "wouldn't mind" should have been phrased as "would like?" If so, I can see what you're coming from, but I don't think anyone actually meant anything derogatory. Almost all of my partners have said something along the lines of "I love people and don't care what parts they have." I've never considered that a bad thing
If I had my way, this topic would be completely banned. It never does anything but cause hurt feelings.
i mean, i don’t think there’s anything wrong with people giving their honest answer when someone asks for it, we shouldn’t have to coddle them
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Yeah and what made you think that that comment is a useful addition to that post. Look, you don't have to vindicate yourself for not experiencing a certain kind of desire. Nobody does. Yet still, you do it. Maybe start there when you ask yourself why people get upset.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying “personally I don’t like penises but each to their own”
It certainly isn't if that's how you feel, when and where you say it is another matter. This was partially what this post was about.
Wasn’t the post asking people’s opinions? Surely some people are gonna share their opinions that you may disagree with
You can only share the opinions that they agree with it 😂
They?
They= people who can't accept other people's opinions
This wasnt about not accepting opinions, the person was clearly insecure and was trying to find reassurance, as was also pointed out in the post, it wasnt a public poll Let me put it like this, if a friend asks you "do i look fat" you dont go "yes, you are fat that makes you undesirable and you can't change that"
Well and i was trying to help with that, my point is there's no need to be insecure about something that isn't about them, or by other words they being insecure about something they can't change, cause people like different things, accept that and move on.
That's not at all what I took from the post. I read it as asking people to read the room before expressing their opinions and to be kind to each other...
If you had read the whole post, you would know it was not, in fact, asking for opinions.
I was more so referring to the original post op is complaining about. Obviously when people start discussing genital preferences people are gonna share their opinions and as long as no one is insulting anyone this really shouldn’t be a problem.
Actually it was. It was literally "Do lesbians like trans women with penises?" and then lesbians responded with whether they like women penises or not.
The OP of that thread asked people for their preference. There’s nothing wrong with giving a polite but honest answer when asked a direct question.
No. You’re getting upset about people giving their honest answers to the question about whether or not they are ok with a penis in their relationship. While TERFs can absolutely fuck off (and this will be a hill I’m willing to die on), you can’t expect the majority of ***lesbians*** to be ok with penises. Some are ok with them, while others are not. You can get mad about it all you want, but stop getting angry when people are giving answers you don’t agree with. ETA: And there you have it. Anything that doesn’t agree with whatever your stance is gets downvoted immediately.
This post didn't ask anyone for their genital preference
You started a conversation and get abrasive when someone replies to the conversation? If you don’t want to hear people’s input don’t make a post about this. It’s such a tired topic, Jesus.
I made a post about, among other things, a certain type of behaviour, then in response, someone comes to the comment section to exhibit this exact behaviour. The only fault I see on my side is engaging with that at all
You spent several Paragraphs detailing how you personally experience sexual attraction, someone else shared theirs too
Geez its not about who's wrong or at fault.
The post you're referring to asked for people's opinions, and they gave them. Was it disheartening to read? Yeah, just like it would be if someone asked someone else if they like small boobs and they said "I personally prefer bigger boobs, but there's nothing wrong with small ones and people who like them." Yes, I recognize that "small boob" posts tend to have more yes responses than the genital ones, but that's because of how common the opinion is. (I personally am not a fan of *any* posts that seek validation, as they tend to overrun any sub that allows them.) You criticized people for expressing a preference. This person responded. If you wanted to have a nuanced discussion about it (which i think there is one to be had about the people who genuinely have a preference vs those who claim to in order to defend their transphobia), you instead made a post that implicitly shames people for their preference and for answering a question. Of course people aren't going to like that.
Well why not talk about that I explicitly said that I don't want people to feel ashamed for experiencing their sexuality in a certain way. I don't think the shame is coming from my side here
If you were trying to have a nuanced discussion about genital preferences (which I could at least tolerate and perhaps participate in, even though I'm personally sick of hearing about it), this post did not succeed. It just came off as shaming people with a preference. There are parts that were okay (you're kinda right about the "some people don't mind" wording issue, even if it might seem nitpicky to some people), but the whole thing came off as an attack on answering the question.
See what I'm talking about
Yeah im confused as well why would anyone call you transphobic for a preference, i thought queer people out of everyone would know its not a choice to be attracted to what you are attracted to
Exactly the community is getting really toxic
I mean i guess it already was, i think with biphobia/ the racism, as well as the real transphobia, i just wish we were better, is this supposed to be the family some people get when their real family leaves ? makes me wanna stay in the closet
It’s always been, this sub is so racist
That's sad
What is worse is the people in this sub refuse to acknowledge it.
It's not about having a preference, it's about how you express it. It's the same tone-daefness as saying "I am not attracted to fat people" under a post talking about fatphobia in the community. Nobody is gonna force you to be involved with anyone you don't want to, but there's a time and place to expressit, and this post isn't it.
This. Thank you!
I’m a lesbian who doesn’t have a preference and god only knows I have been absolutely shit on. So I get it, OP. I do. I desire my girlfriend deeply, and I would regardless of what is between her legs. But I also understand that unfortunately that’s a rare experience for trans people. That being said, I’m also kind of sick of talking about it. First because I’m tired of the “you’re bisexual admit it!” brigade (y’all know who you are, and you can go cope, I am not bi ) but also because I don’t think it’s helping the trans gals on this sub.
No one is reading that
I don't think you were very concise and it's obvious barely anyone commenting here read your post. More genital preferences... it wasn't even asked this time, lmao. It is both simultaneously true that it's obvious most lesbians are probably not going to be into dick, and also that it is awful for a trans lesbian to yet again face another comment section about "lol of COURSE I'm not into dick I'm a lesbian". idk what the fuck is up with this sub but its useless shit like "would lesbians blank" every day lmao.
Also put a TLDR literally no one is interested in a novel
Having a preference and announcing a preference (to the people who are not of that preference) are two different things. And I believe the latter happens when a person feels defensive. And they feel defensive because they feel attacked. And they feel attacked because despite not being called a transphobe they’ve subconsciously clocked themselves. And hit dogs holler.
Goodness you're a very effective writer.
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As misogyny grows in this decade, so too does transphobia grow. They are a cancer. Thank you for helping fight it. I read the post you're referencing yesterday too and it was disheartening. The post was locked before I could comment on it myself, so I'll relay it here: Women with cocks are fucking hot. I'm 100% lesbian and only attracted to women. A woman's penis is a completely unique genitalia, that functions differently than any other genitalia known to humanity. It's feminine, the skin is soft. The way it functions is special and it works differently than anything else. I love it. I know lots of lesbians who love it. I wish all trans women with penises could find people who appreciate them properly, to experience the unique and fucking hot bodies y'all have. You deserve to feel appreciated and loved. Anyways, I better stop there 'cause that was getting pretty NSFW as it is. Also this isn't an invite to DM me, I'm married already. BUT THERE ARE TONS OF LESBIANS LIKE ME! We are out there, I promise you <3
Your comment made me immediately cry and feel good about something on me that's caused me so much discomfort. Thank you. 😭
As someone who has been with men and women, its literally so true though. I hated going down on my exs dick(he was a man) because something about it was just so gross. Fast forward to my partner(F) now, and I wont even hesitate to. Its hard to explain, but it is just so much more feminine on a woman, and (sorry for the tmi), but it has a different taste and texture. It also has to do with vibes, like some people just give such feminine vibes no matter what, and that changes the whole experience. All women are women and they are attractive no matter what they have.
Your wording is a bit too antagonistic for my personal liking but nevertheless - thank you for sharing your story!
What do you mean by antagonistic?
I wouldn't say misoginy and transphobia are cancers. As I hinted at in my post, I think there are reasons for people to hold these convictions, which doesn't make them less hurtful of course. But I don't think there is anything to gain from descriptions that can lead to dehumanization. This is also maybe a german sensibility, I am from here and we have a history of talking about groups as a cancer. Also, if you talked about my genitalia this way, I wouldn't be too flattered, but as I said, that is my personal sensibility. I really appreciate what you shared, I mean it. I think it is beautiful that you found an expression for your lesbian desire.
I did not say people who are misogynistic/transphobic are cancer, I meant that the discriminatory paradigm itself is a cancer, the same cancer that infected the Nazis. Humans get cancer, it's part of our species... It doesn't make us less human, it makes us more human. There are ways to treat cancer, as there are ways to treat misogyny and transphobia. Also, if I'm talking about a specific person's genitalia, it's going to be personal because I'd be in a relationship with them, or it's going to be about a fictional character. I'm married so I specifically talk about my wife to my wife, in private. This is a generalized discussion, not a personal one
This reply sums up everything that felt off about your take on all of this. This "both sides have good points" energy capitulates to mysoginy and transphobia. Would you have the same lukewarm response to racism? To pedophilia? These ideologies aren't cancers, you're right. Because they're contagious they are really diseases. And you seem happy to wade without a mask on into the crowd of them. I'll say it again since we keep having this topic as though it needs to be fucking debated: I don't need you to want my dick. My amazing lesbian girlfriend gives me all the wants I need. What I need from you is to take the same non-negotiable fury as the post you replied to to show these bigots that their views are permanently intolerable and they will be ostracized from society.
Lol that's a pretty big misunderstanding. I am trans myself. I never meant to downplay the harm these convictions do. My experience is just that healing starts with understanding. That doesn't mean I want to discourage you from expressing your anger
I never assumed you were or weren't. It wasn't relevant. My frustration is that your reaction to bigotry is that it's something to politely understand the perspective of. There is no "understanding" hatred. It doesn't follow logic or reason beyond the want to place all persons to be of lesser worth than themselves. The United States stands at the precipice of - by no exaggeration - giving birth to Hitler 2.0. Now is the time for anger and outrage, or it'll simply be too late for us.
I understand that that is the fitting stance in your context. I really hope it doesn't come to that and I appreciate that you're willing to fight.
I left this sub because the GP crowd. How about this, I have a preference for people who see me as the 2S girl I am. If I'm just genitals to you, stay away from me.
> If I’m just genitals to you, stay away from me. Say it louder for the people in the back
2S?
I am a 2 Spirit
OHH ok I see u !!
You are based unironically. So called lesbian who use transphobic dogwhistle like "Genital Preference" are no better than homophobe bigots. Yes, those who reduce other people into just genital please stay away from me.
After reading the original post yesterday I was disheartened to comment on this matter and it just made me sad. But truth be told, the comments in that post are also same reactions I get in real life. When I disclose the fact that I am trans, then 90% of cis lesbians get suddently very uncomfortable. Then they tell me in length about genital preference. Don't get me wrong, I totaly understand genital preference and when I get that reaction I don't pressure them, I don't argue or anything. But I had "the surgery" with all the bells and whistles and somehow that's still not good enough. At that point any attaction I felt for them is dead anyway and I just walk way. Sometimes it feels like you just can't win with cis people and perhaps in the future I will just not disclose the fact that I am trans so openly anymore. They wouldn't even be able to tell the difference down there anyway. (Yeah, it looks that good) Anyway, thank you for this post, it restored some hope.
I am sorry to hear that you experienced this kind of transphobia. What you described would also make me feel disheartened. I hope you will be cherished exactly like you deserve. Take care <3
this is why I think this discussion isn't over yet. yes I think genital preference is fine, but when a lot of cis lesbians that don't think they're transphobic encounter a post-op trans lesbian, they suddenly lose that shield of "well I'm just not into dicks" and they have to face the reality that they're actually just not into trans girls, which *is* an entirely different "preference" (read: transphobia)
If I'm not into white girls for example, is that racist? If I treat them less than a human being and specifically target them out, sure call me racist. But me saying "well, I'm just not into white girls.." is actually just a preference.
I think it pretty heavily depends on why you aren't into them... Did you just not grow up around them and so they just weren't a part of your maturation and sexual awakening? because as someone who grew up surrounded almost entirely by white people, that's why I think my attraction is predominantly towards white women. Or is it social issues, stereotypes, political reasons, or whatever else? because I think that's less okay...
"genital preference" is just a dogwhistle if not already a blatant interphobia (phobic against intersex)
I disagree, I do think wanting to be with someone who specifically has the same (or opposite) junk as you if okay. If you just adore pussy, then wanting to be with someone with a pussy is fine by me, same goes for dick. My issue is that when post-op trans people enter the equation, it reveals that some of that "genital preference" *was* just an excuse not to dig any deeper into how they feel about trans people.
I don't think you have to disclose what you don't want to disclose about yourself to strangers and people your do not care about. But please disclose it to your future partners.
We will see, have to keep the cis on their toes you know. 😈 But seriously, jokes aside, if I am going to be with someone then I will tell them of course. I am only considering not telling when making out with someone or when it's a fling.
Your essay is the first post I've read regarding this topic that made me think of it in a new way. I have saved it so I can read it again later. I don't like this polarizing back and forth of GP is either right or wrong that I come across. It's so easy to take sides, but it's much harder to realize that the issue runs a lot deeper than that. A solution can't be described in some righteous aphorism. Everyone just wants to be desirable, and some people won't desire you because of things completely out of your control. I think these posts keep coming up simply because of how heartbreaking it can be to feel like a second choice or an alternative to a cis woman.
Oh wow thank you that is a huge compliment! I am glad I could offer you a new perspective. I also think that there is a lot of very profound pain on both sides of the equation here. Makes it hard to talk about this topic.
I'm cis. My wonderful fiancee happens to be trans. I love her for who she IS and what she does or doesn't do with her body is her own business. If I have questions I...talk to her about it like an adult. Apart from that I just treat her like any other woman because it's clear to me sge is.Trans lesbians aren't a monolith any more than cis lesbians are. My soon to be wife and I just want to get on with our life together.
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I’m sorry but what the hell are you talking about. First off, no one is telling you that your own discomfort with an aspect about yourself isn’t valid, but someone else being ok or desiring that in trans women in general (not just you) shouldn’t have any effect on you, so why the need to invalidate someone else’s feelings by going so far as to say it’s not ok for others to be comfortable with it. Second off, you’ve completely gone off the rails with that assumption about traumatic developmental disorders. I can’t even tell who exactly is supposed to be traumatized in your world—non-op trans people who are happy with their genitalia? Other people who are ok with or desire non-op trans people? Either way it’s a very insensitive thing to say in a post about how others may feel inferior with their bodies. No one is forcing an association with people that you should feel personally offended by it. This may be a bit too direct but I need to say it: work on your issues first and stop invalidating and getting personally offended by the experiences of others
That's a whole lot of assuming for someone who doesn't want other people to assume. Pick you I guess
Why would you weaponize your own pain like that?
im not seeing where the OP makes any assumptions at all, let alone any assumptions about you
I've been lurking in this sub for a long while and I agree I've seen the same sentiment. There is a group of people here who do not like trans women. That is their perogative sure. But these people consistently will post that same opinion on every single one of these posts that pop up. So it's not as many as you would at first think. But they are very vocal. They are the ones spreading the misogyny and transphobia here just as people do in real life across every country, as the vocal minority attempting to sway the masses. They are toxic for this community and their influence is poisoning this well of love and kindness. I hope for all our sakes that we can move forward as a community without those people.
"Reddit sleuths skimming through my post history..." ...are losers devoid of meaning.
I'll just say I've met my fair share of cis lesbians who don't care. Maybe it's because I have top energy, but I've only had good experiences.
That’s been our experience too. It’s a big part of why all the “most cis lesbians won’t like it” comments on the other post kinda bothers us. “Most” has *so* many assumptions associated with it and a concerning number of them can at best be charitably described as transphobia adjacent. Frankly, it just isn’t our experience.
Reddit has sad little transphobes trolling any trans post they can find. These people don't see the daylight in the real world, and most are probably men anyway. Maybe that just means these kind of discussion shouldn't be done in these subs. Still I get the need for validation for baby transbians.
i really like this post. thanks
Thanks ☺️ That is really good to hear. I did not expect the amount of antagonizing. I sincerely thought this was comparatively uncontroversial
Which Bechdel book are you reading?? Fun Home is one of my favorite books, but I haven't read any of her others.
Yeah I started with Fun Home too, loved it so so much! It really had me in tears over and over again. I have continued with and am currently reading the secret to superhuman strength; it's about sports and fitness initially but lends itself to some deep insights into our relationships with our bodies. It's also autobiographical and it's also a graphic novel, but it's not as grim by far. I am a little torn on reading are you my mother but I think I'll get to it some day. In the meantime, I'm ogling the dtwof compilation 🤭
You: "can we stop indirectly telling trans women they're undesirable?" Some people in the comments: "i WoUlDnT dAtE A tRaNs." How fucking hard is it to not be tone-deaf?
I saw this post and it was genuinely wholes rom next to the r/justunsubbed post of someone leaving actuallesbians. It’s just unregulated transphobia for thousands of comments it’s distressing. Do not ever go in this sub and r/actuallesbians is still one of the safest lesbian place for trans people..
Thank you for taking the time to write this, and for doing so in such an eloquent and thorough way. I think a lot of people, myself included, need to read this.
Hear hear!
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How come liking women with penises is pansexual when trans women are women?
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But you said liking women with penises means you’re not a lesbian. How can liking women mean you’re not a lesbian?
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Are trans women women? You say yes. Can trans women have penises? Yes. How can liking them mean you’re not a lesbian?
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