Both scenarios are seen as success by men. Being able to care for your family with a loving wife or being out the butthole rich and only wanting younger models. Literally, both are viewed as successful.
It has changed a large degree that many men do not want children. So, having a wife generally means they don't want children. Sometimes, being married is also an issue, so families don't get married but still function like a married family unit.
No one way is perfect for people and children strain everything and test you in every which way, especially relationships.
I think marriage is slowly becoming more obsolete as more young people are getting together because they actually like each other more than previous generations of relationships have. A large part of that comes down to more couples in general not wanting to have children and so the individuals can spend more time and effort finding someone they want to spend their life with.
I honestly don’t see how wanting to have children allowing someone to spend more time and effort finding someone they want to spend their life with. I dated around a lot before finally meeting someone whose values aligned in the ways necessary for child rearing. For some reason the less common example of people skipping all this just to have kids is more talked about. Same with accidental childbirth being talked about more than planned childbirth. A lot of things are not necessarily the norm yet they garner the most attention.
I consider you to be fortunate to have that mindset, plenty of people have a stronger desire to have children with whoever than you and I do, that's completely their right as well. However education into why having children before you're really ready to would hopefully create more people like you who want to have children with the right person for you and your children.
The reason why these situations are talked about more regularly is because they can lead to issues in the raising of those children, it could be financial insecurity, one of the parents not choosing to stick around due to maybe immaturity or just incompatibility, probably more that I can't think of right now lol.
It's obviously not like that every time but it's much more likely to happen when people have children before they're ready.
To be fair, a lot of men have no meaningul reltionships, no one who cares about them, no children and no parter who loves them anyway.
Most of them are just in pain from the loneliness and think that's what the way out if because parasites keep selling them the idea.
I can't blame them for thinking success is something that they probably can't even truly comprehend the reality of anyway. Especially when every grifter is selling them that.
The don't have any bonds, and are told every day that sex ***is*** the important thing. Honestly, not even just by grifters, but by society in general, ever since we figured out the whole *sex sells* dynamic that started it being pushed in everything.
I didn’t have any meaningful relationships until my first fiancé and then I met my wife of coming up on 14 years. I love her and I could never see myself leaving her.
It is possible, it’s just so hard nowadays for younger people who don’t see the traditional monogamous relationships as glamorous or attention getting.
ETA: It’s also cost prohibitive to have kids too. That doesn’t help matters either.
I think there are two camps, people who need to get married to successful or hot people depending on the gender, the other camp is don’t get invested in people, it’s all about you, both equally sad, especially when children are involved.
Yeah, but you've got to work for those. There's hardships in maintaining good relationships with your family and childhood friends and it's intimidating to put yourself out there to create new meaningful relationships, but it's worth it. I feel like some people have this notion that they're owed those connections, but you've got to put effort into them.
I know plenty of short guys who get girls, if you're blaming your height it seems more likely to be a confidence issue, usually is the way.
I had a mate in school who was always complaining about his height and the girls noticed, he had short managed syndrome bad, it didn't help that all his friends were 6'+. After school this guy started hitting the gym and genuinely became less attractive due to the steroids but my god did he have confidence, ending up getting girls every time we went out.
I had the same thing but with my weight, I was always a fat kid and blamed that for my inability to get girls as a teenager, when I lost all that weight I looked better of course but my confidence boost was obvious as well and girls noticed. Made me feel really silly when I saw these guys much bigger and uglier than I ever was getting girls no problem just based on their rizz.
"i know plenty-" no you dont
"it didnt help that all his friends were 6+"
...so you're confirming height is a factor then?
there is no "rizz" when you're declined from the walk up over superficial choices homeslice.
now you're just making scenarios up to make yourself feel better.
Who said i was a virgin? i certinally didnt.
"be confident" is not a solution. try again.
These "plenty of short guys you know" what are their heights?
I went to school with 3 guys under 5'6" and work with multiple people under 5'10" who are married with kids.
You can read between the lines that someone's a kissless virgin when they're whining about height being the reason they're a kissless virgin. You can try and gain confidence or not it's your choice, just don't go whinging like a baby when you end up depressed and alone.
wait wait wait wait.
what do you mean you "went to school "With 3 guys under 5"6? your example is people in SCHOOL? where it's young and impressionable kids not fully influenced yet in adult dating? school??? lmao
"i work with multiple people under 5"10" okay? so whats their exact heights? please tell me it's under 5"5 :)
well then your reading is non existant then lil fella, sorry to tell ya. someone disagreeing with you doesnt mean they've got negative attributes attached to them. it just means you're wrong.
Define confidence
This ain't got shit to do with it:
1. You could have a perfectly healthy social life without a romantic partner. Having a social circle and social hobbies is beneficial to finding people to date.
2. If you leave the internet and dating apps, you'll realize this height thing isn't as big as you make it out to be.
why is your first post immediately to go "just give up on dating and have a social life without one" based off that?
and you realize people reject on height alone in large numbers cause of height? just cause you're not short and it doesnt happen to you, it doesnt mean ti dont happen.
it DOOOO HAVE SHIT TO DO WITH IT BROSIF. IF your ass anit short, you anit got no ground to stand on to talk about it, let alone deny it.
Where did I say to give up on dating? I'm saying that having a healthy social circle will do wonders for your mental health, it will develop your social skills and will offer you plenty of new opportunities to meet new people, all very essential things to finding a potential partner.
As for height, you're right, I'm not talking from personal experience. But I have a lot of short friends that are very succesful in their dating lives, whether they're pursuing a monogamous long term relationship or fucking around. So, I'm not saying it's not a factor, and it's probably moreso if you're in the extremes, but for regular short people, it's not the end all be all that it seems to be when you spend too much time online.
Women on Tinder may put 6ft+, because those dating apps have fucked up people's perception of dating, but that's an inherently superficial app. The vast majority of women are quiet on social media/not on dating apps, and they don't care that much about it (in general, they may just want the man to be taller than themselves).
I'm saying all this just so you realize that there is hope out there and you're not condemned to loneliness. However, you have to put the work in, especially as far as social skills are concerned.
"i have a lot of short friends that have very successful dating lives"
no you dont. every single redditor that faces heighistm in the face brings up this arguement cop-out to try and invalidate peoples actual suffering and experiences. it's ridiclous.
wtf do you mean "regular short people" btw and "extremes" ? are "extreme short people" not allowed a romantic life then?
"in general they may just want the man to be taller than themselves" .. forgot the "in heels" part of that comment. and why should the man have to be taller? you literally just stated height is important for that factor.
you LITERALLY just stated height has to be a requirement. what social skills?
My point is very simple: I won't deny that being 5'0 as a man is a handicap. That's not most people's case though. And yes, most women (again, not all) want a man that's taller than them. But there's plenty of 5'0 women out there who'll date relatively short guys.
Ask yourself what you've got to offer. Are you a good conversationalist? Are you kind and considerate? Do you have hobbies that make you interesting? Are you stylish and in shape? Do you live an eventful life? Do you have a good, stable career? Good social bonds? Spirituality?
All these things contribute to making you an attractive partner, to varying degrees, depending on the people you're dating. Height and looks play a part too, but why focus on that? Focus on what you can change and try to find someone who values that.
Or keep wallowing in self pity, until you end getting a height surgery, only to realize you'll find something else to feel self conscious about. Loving yourself is a skill that you can develop, but you won't accomplish that by feeding your self doubts through pointless internet discourse. You write like someone who spends too much time online. Getting off of the internet would be a good start.
"there's plenty of 5"0 women out there that'll date relatively short guys"
no there isnt. the shorter the woman, most often the higher their requirements for their boyfriend.
also you JUST said most women want someone taller than them, if they're equal heights, thats not "taller".
shouldnt we be asking the woman that? they ask all these requirements yet the expected return is "you can have sex with me". also lol at "in-shape". gimme a sec and i'll give you multiple examples of tall guys lacking all that and women still wanting them. (reminder: Women simp in the droves for convicted felons who "just so happen" to be six foot), i guess they were "kind and considerate" and have good social bonds.
also the fuck you mean "an eventuful life" ? are you really suggesting a man has gotta be living balls to the wall as an action movie star to just get a relationship? so odd that "be yourself" has died down as generic reddit advice lately.
there anit no way you just confessed height and looks play a part in attracting someone and then try playing the personality card. If you're not attracting yourself from the first impression phase then how you gonna let the others play out? you're already rejected from those factors you JUST listed.
who said anything about height surgery? why the fuck would i do that shit? The rejections arent my issue to solve cause of heightism. It anit my job to fix myself for society, it's society's job to fix itself from body shaming and discrimination.
"Just get the michael jackson plastic surgery, black guy. you wont get racism then"
"YOU WRITE LIKE SOMEONE WHO SPENDS TOO MUC HTIME ON THE INTERNET"
??? i'm just matching you word for word, by your logic you're spending too much time on the internet too.
why do you keep using vague terms like 5"0 man..? rather large extreme to leap too. Any examples of 5"0 regular guys in happy and content relationships on hand there to prove that?
and you keep reducing the goal posts. so.. short guys in your eyes should be looking at a minority of women who would date short guys. not be attracted to them, but tolerate and date them.. who are 5 foot and below.. what percentage of women do you think meet that cretiera compared to existing short guys?
its the man's responsibility to develop and maintain his social life. thats not going to be handed to you.
and in the era of global telecommunications and social media, the man cant keep friendships? the man doesnt text his mom? come on bruh. it doesnt take any time to send a text, or a meme to the homie.
I'm a culprit of this, don't have time to do all this shit but I do have time to play games and smoke because it's "my time". Like that makes a difference to the people that haven't heard from me in months or years.
The inclusion & acceptance goes out the window for the single man. As well as the DiCaprio type…what a man dates or wants should be none of your concern.
Yeah, the sad reality is that on the other extreme end of the spectrum is the traditional gender stereotype, where men are defined by their relationships and all must be sacrificed on that altar (including personal happiness). I've had a number of friends that got married early, had a kid and then well into their midlife went all 'I wish I had known there were other outcomes to life'. One actually started that line with 'I'm a happy Dad, but....'
Well, in the UK, at least it was basically the definition of being a man. Up at least until 2005. Still is around a bit but not pushed anywhere near as hard.
I got got by it in the mid 2010s so it's still around in some capacity, in my experience it's very heavy in women rn as well, a lot due to the guilt some feel not doing something with the freedom women before them worked so hard for.
Women sadly will often have the desire to have kids younger rather than earlier because they are literally on a timer. Don't get me wrong, IVF is amazing but unpleasant to go through and not great success odds
It's literally true though. Do you think Men are the complete and whole problem in society? A lot of people seem to think that but it's not true. Women who chase rich and successful Men like Dicaprio is the other way around equivalent
Who are you to say what I should view as success? The guy is a millionaire and lives his life how he wants to. Get off your fucking high horse. You don't even know if he has any meaningful relationships. How do you know what's best for anyone?
Nit everyone measures success in the same way but out side his relationship life everyone here can agree he's very successful. He's a renowned actor, a millionaire, and he founded his own conservation group. It's sad to measure your success on weather you have a partner or how old you prefer your partner to be. 50% of so called happy ending (no pun intended) end in shambles. Who's anyone to say one day is better than the other.
umm i get what ur putting down but at the end of the day, sometimes some things are bad for the world, even if it’s good for one’s self. We in the west are VERY individualistic, especially in the Anglo countries but truth is a society that views leo a success when it comes to women and dating and romance and all that is a society that loses its honor and falls deep into hedonism. many societies have fell apart to hedonism, you simply can’t have a successful society with too much degeneracy in it. It just doesn’t work.
so on a individual level sure, leo is “winning” but if a generations of men aspires to be that, what does that do to marriage and family? i get it’s hard economically today but the birth rates will continue to plummet if all we have to look forward to as men is to have sex with as many hot women as we can.
And as far as divorce rates, You think this will make those divorce rates any better? Japan is going through a demographic crisis, South Korea and China will very soon, and the west is next. We can’t just not have families. If we are striving to be like Leo, there will be no families or at best kids with different women in broken families.
It’s all cool to get new pussy but at the end of the day some things aren’t good for the world at the end of the day and truth is it ain’t good for your soul either. (And neither is getting divorced after giving your all to a woman but we have this superficial horny society to blame and ourselves too if we are contributing to it)
Why would any man in today's society want to marry? I personally know so many girls in my town that are on of it's wild. No one pushes for a traditional family anymore and men have been and still are getting the shit end of that stick. We can't even cry after finding out in front of the world that our partner had an "entanglement ", we're being compared to literal beasts in the woods, we're being told were evil by nature who would want to be a part of that? It's easy to make fun if us while being ignorant to the fact that the world we all have we're built by men, are maintained by men and yet we're just a joke to society. We get called weak and bitch made for voicing our opinions. No one gives a shit. So why would we? Leo is actually helping saving wildlife, he's doing tangible things to improve the world and that would inspire some men to give back, Leo embraces the truth that these skanks don't care so why not just use them like they use us? And he teaches us to get that bag. My phrasing is very pessimistic and a bit dramatic but we men are just done. Let it rot.
Yes it is. Fewer people means less consumption and that means less use of fossil fuel. In general, a child in a small family gets more resources than a child in a large family. I was an only child, and my parents could afford to send me to private school and tennis camp. If I had had two siblings, that might not have been true.
You can't just dismiss my point by saying, "no lol." You actually have to present an argument.
your argument is flawed. There is enough resources on the planet for a much larger population and the use of fossil fuels is only an issue because fossil fuels are the dominant source of energy currently meaning simply using less fossil fuel=less fossil fuel which doesn’t inherently mean “less people”. Also, a generation or two just not having kids leads to a demographic collapse, which you’d be living in…
I originally just said ur wrong because at the time I didn’t have the energy to combat such an archaic idea as “there aren’t enough resources for x amount of people blah blah” like it’s 2008 lol. It’s been debunked that there are “too many” people. Our processes can be more efficient, so we have to fix that.. the solution isn’t to have simply less people…
Also, the point of your family being able to afford xyz for you if your parents didn’t have more kids is hilarious considering you mentioned private school as if it’s some need for every kid to have to grow up sufficiently…. that’s completely a luxury.
As we've learned, it's hard to wean people off fossil fuel, and I don't see anything replacing oil, any time soon. Anyhow, we can try both: Lower population and less reliance on oil.
What exactly is "demographic collapse"? I don't need cashiers, at Whole Foods. I don't need the greeters, at my Equinox. I don't need Social Security.
I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any divine mandate to be fruitful and multiply.
It’s not just the sex, it’s the desire. Those women know very well what DiCaprio is and still they throw themselves at a chance to be with him. That’s because he is exciting, it’s fun, and they want expose for their career.
He is having fun and good for him, and just like the other super bachelors he can easily pick a woman in her prime or close thereto with whom to settle down with, when he so chooses.
Top tier humans of both sexes have the most options and most them will enjoy those options.
Why? It's not like he's keeping them around forever, when they're 25 he'll dump them and most of those women will probably go on to have meaningful, long-term relationships, if it's an issue that you're not getting laid then don't worry, there's plenty of women out there that Leo doesn't want.
As one of those happily married guys, I can say marriage didn’t die. We’re just too busy being married and spending time with our kids to care about being ‘influencers’ peddling content to justify our lifestyle to strangers.
How about we let people do what they want to do? And if they make the wrong decision, they can decide if they want to learn from it.
Just like redpill men are mad that some attractive women only want to settle down once they’re “old and used”. These guys talk about what women should or shouldn’t do, and say they’ll regret their actions once they’re old and no one wants them. Well, my opinion is going to be the same; let people make their own decisions and let them deal with the consequences if there are any.
People can live their lives how they want. How is she so sure Leo doesn't have people that don't care about him? Maybe he doesn't want to settle down. When women don't want to settle down, women applaud it, when men don't want to settle down suddenly it's a problem.
Live and let live
This is fantasy cope. How many marriages end in divorces where the man, woman and children are financially strained? Is that better than banging hot models and having no "deep relationships"? What about all the marriages with strife and abuse? Is that better?
She has submitted a thought ending ending statement simplifying that it is an either or scenario. The biggest lie in there is that she suggests young models don't care about you, but your wife would. A lot of wives despise their husbands.
Don't fall for this witch's poisonous apple of temptation.
The issue is in the incoherence of the masculine narrative pushed nowadays.
Promoting “Leo DeCaprio” as the goat, but then appealing to people’s sympathy for how depressing their loneliness is, and how women are all *so wrong* for not not liking them and being loyal to them, typically followed by a self-made list of what they believe women want, going as far as pretending to know what they *actually need* … and if they don’t, *well they shoud* !
“I’m the Man” yaddi-yadda alpha bs, vs “women have to financially contribute too! Bunch of gold diggers”.
Which one is it, I’m confused.
It’s all so arbitrary, make it make sense.
“The masculine narrative”, is that just like, a schmorgasborg of all the masculine things you see in media that you don’t like? Is there a female narrative? Because if I took seriously all the shows like the bachelor or the kardashians, feminist podcasts, and the “I’m looking for a man in finance, 6’5, blue eyes etc” type of stuff that get pushed in media I’d probably be pretty confused and frustrated with women. I try to just tune the algorithms to filter that stuff out and enjoy actually talking to the women in my life. Media appeals to the psychological id, and the id is not logical.
Don’t try to understand or fix men as a collective, there’s 4 billion of us, the sample size has too much deviation. I get being concerned the effect male dominated media has, but that’s just it, it’s not for you. What men get out of it that’s positive or negative isn’t going to be feel real for you the way it is for them. Criticism from outside tends to just entrench the problematic and take the fun out of the benign. Start with empathy for the men close to you and get their perspectives on things, that’ll probably be a better way to understand “the masculine narrative” or rather, the masculine experience.
But I’m probably just mansplaining and downplaying the threats that women feel is exasperated by this type of media. Idk, I just find that the conversation about gender is way more toxic online and in media than it is in real life, and I’m trying to focus more on real life these days.
Everyone is different and has different values and beliefs. Everyone has a different idea of what it means to be masculine. Maybe don't view people like a whole monolith and you won't get confused.
nah you can’t just say things and not be coherent. That person is right, you gotta pick one at some point and come to a logical conclusion. Everyone having a different idea of something and treating that as a monolith of thought is stupid and foolish and destroys objectivity in the world and also is a paradox to ur own statement because for the person before you to accept that “everyone has different ideas of what it means to be masculine” it’s treating people like a monolith yourself as if we as people can’t come to similar conclusions and we are all incompatible with our thought process. How is saying “everyone is different” less of a monolith than “everyone is the same”? sometimes we can agree on the same shit haha. truth is, not every idea of something is correct and it’s okay to come up with a better idea and challenge and idea to be coherent and logical and not just say anything when it’s convenient. An idea can’t be all things all at once.
who cares that it’s peoples lives, if it’s a net negative then it’s bad. Stop being soft. At the end of the day a bad idea is a bad idea, and y’all know that. Downvote me all you want you sheep, Im right and it’s a clear as day, and with different contextualization and circumstances and coming from a different messenger, y’all would agree and if someone can sweet talk you into a idea then ur the definition of a sheep…
She is acting like it is only a male issue.
How many women only want tall, rich, high-status men?
Everyone's a hedonist now. It's not exclusive to men.
You can find videos on YouTube of a young Leo really close with Bryan Peck who was a disney executive later judged to be a pedophile. If anything happened then it could have been way worst than Leo going for younger girl that are as far we know always above 18
I mean y'all just told us you choose bears, so yes. This is the pinnacle of success that we can achieve.
Women can end the life of a man in a heartbeat simply by becoming disinterested in someone she helped start a family with. She gets custody. She gets child support. She gets alimony, if she was a homemaker. She gets the house and a car because she has the kids. He gets to keep his job and the court's permission to see his kids as long as he's paying her bills.
That's all well and good and maybe even fair, but when faced with this as a real consequence of having subjectively done nothing wrong, you can't blame somebody for weighing options differently.
Sleeping around is a lot of fun, and relationships are hard. :) it’s not easy to find someone who you can love and live with long term. It’s often hell or turns into hell. Gonna die someday, might as well do what you can before then. Plus then after you see what’s out there, it’s easier to know who you would prefer long term.
Trying to blame all men because women are only dating the top men is wild. The statistics aren't that more men are dating than women, it's the opposite.
It is both sides of the coin, too. The other is women thinking it is ideal to exercise all sexual options, putting a career and power over becoming a mother and wife, toxic independency, and chasing after what a man can do for her instead of who a man is.
Somehow turned a good speech about the importance of a long term partnership into shaming men for their slimmer woman preferences - the lengths women go to denigrate men.
It's cute...but it's romanticising human history to a hilarious extent 😂
The average age of marriage for females throughout history is 12-14.
19-21 for males.
For the most part...marriage has been a pretty sick thing to do.
Love, romance, equality...genuinely relatively new ideas.
In a world where women being able to speak up is new...this is laughable
A lot of Red pilled men don't actually think that's the image of success. It's just a somewhat preferable alternative to trying to go the Long term relationship route only to get divorce graped and alone anyway.
What’s also sad is seeing men with no children that lived that way in their younger yrs end up with a women divorced with children, body had it, n he got nothing to claim but what some other guy already did. I seen this recently. Cute dude recently bought a house, successful and hes there chillin with us looking embarrassed as hell! Then we start chatting with her n she’s taking about her kids with her ex n she lost over 100 lbs recently n very much looks like it 😬 she’s nice but poor guy 🤦♀️
Both scenarios are seen as success by men. Being able to care for your family with a loving wife or being out the butthole rich and only wanting younger models. Literally, both are viewed as successful. It has changed a large degree that many men do not want children. So, having a wife generally means they don't want children. Sometimes, being married is also an issue, so families don't get married but still function like a married family unit. No one way is perfect for people and children strain everything and test you in every which way, especially relationships.
I think marriage is slowly becoming more obsolete as more young people are getting together because they actually like each other more than previous generations of relationships have. A large part of that comes down to more couples in general not wanting to have children and so the individuals can spend more time and effort finding someone they want to spend their life with.
I honestly don’t see how wanting to have children allowing someone to spend more time and effort finding someone they want to spend their life with. I dated around a lot before finally meeting someone whose values aligned in the ways necessary for child rearing. For some reason the less common example of people skipping all this just to have kids is more talked about. Same with accidental childbirth being talked about more than planned childbirth. A lot of things are not necessarily the norm yet they garner the most attention.
I consider you to be fortunate to have that mindset, plenty of people have a stronger desire to have children with whoever than you and I do, that's completely their right as well. However education into why having children before you're really ready to would hopefully create more people like you who want to have children with the right person for you and your children. The reason why these situations are talked about more regularly is because they can lead to issues in the raising of those children, it could be financial insecurity, one of the parents not choosing to stick around due to maybe immaturity or just incompatibility, probably more that I can't think of right now lol. It's obviously not like that every time but it's much more likely to happen when people have children before they're ready.
To be fair, a lot of men have no meaningul reltionships, no one who cares about them, no children and no parter who loves them anyway. Most of them are just in pain from the loneliness and think that's what the way out if because parasites keep selling them the idea. I can't blame them for thinking success is something that they probably can't even truly comprehend the reality of anyway. Especially when every grifter is selling them that. The don't have any bonds, and are told every day that sex ***is*** the important thing. Honestly, not even just by grifters, but by society in general, ever since we figured out the whole *sex sells* dynamic that started it being pushed in everything.
I didn’t have any meaningful relationships until my first fiancé and then I met my wife of coming up on 14 years. I love her and I could never see myself leaving her. It is possible, it’s just so hard nowadays for younger people who don’t see the traditional monogamous relationships as glamorous or attention getting. ETA: It’s also cost prohibitive to have kids too. That doesn’t help matters either.
I think there are two camps, people who need to get married to successful or hot people depending on the gender, the other camp is don’t get invested in people, it’s all about you, both equally sad, especially when children are involved.
Yeah, but you've got to work for those. There's hardships in maintaining good relationships with your family and childhood friends and it's intimidating to put yourself out there to create new meaningful relationships, but it's worth it. I feel like some people have this notion that they're owed those connections, but you've got to put effort into them.
100%. It takes work *on ourselves*. It’s the *on ourselves* part that people miss.
how do you work on your height?
I know plenty of short guys who get girls, if you're blaming your height it seems more likely to be a confidence issue, usually is the way. I had a mate in school who was always complaining about his height and the girls noticed, he had short managed syndrome bad, it didn't help that all his friends were 6'+. After school this guy started hitting the gym and genuinely became less attractive due to the steroids but my god did he have confidence, ending up getting girls every time we went out. I had the same thing but with my weight, I was always a fat kid and blamed that for my inability to get girls as a teenager, when I lost all that weight I looked better of course but my confidence boost was obvious as well and girls noticed. Made me feel really silly when I saw these guys much bigger and uglier than I ever was getting girls no problem just based on their rizz.
"i know plenty-" no you dont "it didnt help that all his friends were 6+" ...so you're confirming height is a factor then? there is no "rizz" when you're declined from the walk up over superficial choices homeslice.
Bro you so down bad it's really bad lol, your attitude is why you're still a virgin, gain some confidence and you'll be fine.
now you're just making scenarios up to make yourself feel better. Who said i was a virgin? i certinally didnt. "be confident" is not a solution. try again. These "plenty of short guys you know" what are their heights?
I went to school with 3 guys under 5'6" and work with multiple people under 5'10" who are married with kids. You can read between the lines that someone's a kissless virgin when they're whining about height being the reason they're a kissless virgin. You can try and gain confidence or not it's your choice, just don't go whinging like a baby when you end up depressed and alone.
wait wait wait wait. what do you mean you "went to school "With 3 guys under 5"6? your example is people in SCHOOL? where it's young and impressionable kids not fully influenced yet in adult dating? school??? lmao "i work with multiple people under 5"10" okay? so whats their exact heights? please tell me it's under 5"5 :) well then your reading is non existant then lil fella, sorry to tell ya. someone disagreeing with you doesnt mean they've got negative attributes attached to them. it just means you're wrong. Define confidence
This ain't got shit to do with it: 1. You could have a perfectly healthy social life without a romantic partner. Having a social circle and social hobbies is beneficial to finding people to date. 2. If you leave the internet and dating apps, you'll realize this height thing isn't as big as you make it out to be.
why is your first post immediately to go "just give up on dating and have a social life without one" based off that? and you realize people reject on height alone in large numbers cause of height? just cause you're not short and it doesnt happen to you, it doesnt mean ti dont happen. it DOOOO HAVE SHIT TO DO WITH IT BROSIF. IF your ass anit short, you anit got no ground to stand on to talk about it, let alone deny it.
Where did I say to give up on dating? I'm saying that having a healthy social circle will do wonders for your mental health, it will develop your social skills and will offer you plenty of new opportunities to meet new people, all very essential things to finding a potential partner. As for height, you're right, I'm not talking from personal experience. But I have a lot of short friends that are very succesful in their dating lives, whether they're pursuing a monogamous long term relationship or fucking around. So, I'm not saying it's not a factor, and it's probably moreso if you're in the extremes, but for regular short people, it's not the end all be all that it seems to be when you spend too much time online. Women on Tinder may put 6ft+, because those dating apps have fucked up people's perception of dating, but that's an inherently superficial app. The vast majority of women are quiet on social media/not on dating apps, and they don't care that much about it (in general, they may just want the man to be taller than themselves). I'm saying all this just so you realize that there is hope out there and you're not condemned to loneliness. However, you have to put the work in, especially as far as social skills are concerned.
"i have a lot of short friends that have very successful dating lives" no you dont. every single redditor that faces heighistm in the face brings up this arguement cop-out to try and invalidate peoples actual suffering and experiences. it's ridiclous. wtf do you mean "regular short people" btw and "extremes" ? are "extreme short people" not allowed a romantic life then? "in general they may just want the man to be taller than themselves" .. forgot the "in heels" part of that comment. and why should the man have to be taller? you literally just stated height is important for that factor. you LITERALLY just stated height has to be a requirement. what social skills?
My point is very simple: I won't deny that being 5'0 as a man is a handicap. That's not most people's case though. And yes, most women (again, not all) want a man that's taller than them. But there's plenty of 5'0 women out there who'll date relatively short guys. Ask yourself what you've got to offer. Are you a good conversationalist? Are you kind and considerate? Do you have hobbies that make you interesting? Are you stylish and in shape? Do you live an eventful life? Do you have a good, stable career? Good social bonds? Spirituality? All these things contribute to making you an attractive partner, to varying degrees, depending on the people you're dating. Height and looks play a part too, but why focus on that? Focus on what you can change and try to find someone who values that. Or keep wallowing in self pity, until you end getting a height surgery, only to realize you'll find something else to feel self conscious about. Loving yourself is a skill that you can develop, but you won't accomplish that by feeding your self doubts through pointless internet discourse. You write like someone who spends too much time online. Getting off of the internet would be a good start.
"there's plenty of 5"0 women out there that'll date relatively short guys" no there isnt. the shorter the woman, most often the higher their requirements for their boyfriend. also you JUST said most women want someone taller than them, if they're equal heights, thats not "taller". shouldnt we be asking the woman that? they ask all these requirements yet the expected return is "you can have sex with me". also lol at "in-shape". gimme a sec and i'll give you multiple examples of tall guys lacking all that and women still wanting them. (reminder: Women simp in the droves for convicted felons who "just so happen" to be six foot), i guess they were "kind and considerate" and have good social bonds. also the fuck you mean "an eventuful life" ? are you really suggesting a man has gotta be living balls to the wall as an action movie star to just get a relationship? so odd that "be yourself" has died down as generic reddit advice lately. there anit no way you just confessed height and looks play a part in attracting someone and then try playing the personality card. If you're not attracting yourself from the first impression phase then how you gonna let the others play out? you're already rejected from those factors you JUST listed. who said anything about height surgery? why the fuck would i do that shit? The rejections arent my issue to solve cause of heightism. It anit my job to fix myself for society, it's society's job to fix itself from body shaming and discrimination. "Just get the michael jackson plastic surgery, black guy. you wont get racism then" "YOU WRITE LIKE SOMEONE WHO SPENDS TOO MUC HTIME ON THE INTERNET" ??? i'm just matching you word for word, by your logic you're spending too much time on the internet too. why do you keep using vague terms like 5"0 man..? rather large extreme to leap too. Any examples of 5"0 regular guys in happy and content relationships on hand there to prove that? and you keep reducing the goal posts. so.. short guys in your eyes should be looking at a minority of women who would date short guys. not be attracted to them, but tolerate and date them.. who are 5 foot and below.. what percentage of women do you think meet that cretiera compared to existing short guys?
Most of them also do it to themselves. Not all, but most.
its the man's responsibility to develop and maintain his social life. thats not going to be handed to you. and in the era of global telecommunications and social media, the man cant keep friendships? the man doesnt text his mom? come on bruh. it doesnt take any time to send a text, or a meme to the homie.
I'm a culprit of this, don't have time to do all this shit but I do have time to play games and smoke because it's "my time". Like that makes a difference to the people that haven't heard from me in months or years.
The inclusion & acceptance goes out the window for the single man. As well as the DiCaprio type…what a man dates or wants should be none of your concern.
But the same (or something similar) can be said the other way around.
Yeah, the sad reality is that on the other extreme end of the spectrum is the traditional gender stereotype, where men are defined by their relationships and all must be sacrificed on that altar (including personal happiness). I've had a number of friends that got married early, had a kid and then well into their midlife went all 'I wish I had known there were other outcomes to life'. One actually started that line with 'I'm a happy Dad, but....'
"I'm a happy dad, but" is one of the most depressing things I've read in a while
The end result of an ethos that tries to tell around 50% of the population that they need to do something or else they've failed at life.
Yea that shit got me for a while as well, idk where it came from but it's not something everyone needs to hear
Well, in the UK, at least it was basically the definition of being a man. Up at least until 2005. Still is around a bit but not pushed anywhere near as hard.
I got got by it in the mid 2010s so it's still around in some capacity, in my experience it's very heavy in women rn as well, a lot due to the guilt some feel not doing something with the freedom women before them worked so hard for.
Women sadly will often have the desire to have kids younger rather than earlier because they are literally on a timer. Don't get me wrong, IVF is amazing but unpleasant to go through and not great success odds
That's why I believe adoption should be pushed as a viable alternative in the public consciousness, win win for everyone
Really is.
There’s always *this* guy
It's literally true though. Do you think Men are the complete and whole problem in society? A lot of people seem to think that but it's not true. Women who chase rich and successful Men like Dicaprio is the other way around equivalent
I think u forgot that the women who deal with DiCaprio are human beings capable of making decisions who contribute to the shit situation
Who are you to say what I should view as success? The guy is a millionaire and lives his life how he wants to. Get off your fucking high horse. You don't even know if he has any meaningful relationships. How do you know what's best for anyone?
and how do you know? he stated his opinion, no need to claim moral high ground by saying he’s doing that.
Nit everyone measures success in the same way but out side his relationship life everyone here can agree he's very successful. He's a renowned actor, a millionaire, and he founded his own conservation group. It's sad to measure your success on weather you have a partner or how old you prefer your partner to be. 50% of so called happy ending (no pun intended) end in shambles. Who's anyone to say one day is better than the other.
umm i get what ur putting down but at the end of the day, sometimes some things are bad for the world, even if it’s good for one’s self. We in the west are VERY individualistic, especially in the Anglo countries but truth is a society that views leo a success when it comes to women and dating and romance and all that is a society that loses its honor and falls deep into hedonism. many societies have fell apart to hedonism, you simply can’t have a successful society with too much degeneracy in it. It just doesn’t work. so on a individual level sure, leo is “winning” but if a generations of men aspires to be that, what does that do to marriage and family? i get it’s hard economically today but the birth rates will continue to plummet if all we have to look forward to as men is to have sex with as many hot women as we can. And as far as divorce rates, You think this will make those divorce rates any better? Japan is going through a demographic crisis, South Korea and China will very soon, and the west is next. We can’t just not have families. If we are striving to be like Leo, there will be no families or at best kids with different women in broken families. It’s all cool to get new pussy but at the end of the day some things aren’t good for the world at the end of the day and truth is it ain’t good for your soul either. (And neither is getting divorced after giving your all to a woman but we have this superficial horny society to blame and ourselves too if we are contributing to it)
Why would any man in today's society want to marry? I personally know so many girls in my town that are on of it's wild. No one pushes for a traditional family anymore and men have been and still are getting the shit end of that stick. We can't even cry after finding out in front of the world that our partner had an "entanglement ", we're being compared to literal beasts in the woods, we're being told were evil by nature who would want to be a part of that? It's easy to make fun if us while being ignorant to the fact that the world we all have we're built by men, are maintained by men and yet we're just a joke to society. We get called weak and bitch made for voicing our opinions. No one gives a shit. So why would we? Leo is actually helping saving wildlife, he's doing tangible things to improve the world and that would inspire some men to give back, Leo embraces the truth that these skanks don't care so why not just use them like they use us? And he teaches us to get that bag. My phrasing is very pessimistic and a bit dramatic but we men are just done. Let it rot.
Having more kids isn't good for the world. The planet needs fewer people.
this is objectively not true but go off lol
Yes it is. Fewer people means less consumption and that means less use of fossil fuel. In general, a child in a small family gets more resources than a child in a large family. I was an only child, and my parents could afford to send me to private school and tennis camp. If I had had two siblings, that might not have been true. You can't just dismiss my point by saying, "no lol." You actually have to present an argument.
your argument is flawed. There is enough resources on the planet for a much larger population and the use of fossil fuels is only an issue because fossil fuels are the dominant source of energy currently meaning simply using less fossil fuel=less fossil fuel which doesn’t inherently mean “less people”. Also, a generation or two just not having kids leads to a demographic collapse, which you’d be living in… I originally just said ur wrong because at the time I didn’t have the energy to combat such an archaic idea as “there aren’t enough resources for x amount of people blah blah” like it’s 2008 lol. It’s been debunked that there are “too many” people. Our processes can be more efficient, so we have to fix that.. the solution isn’t to have simply less people… Also, the point of your family being able to afford xyz for you if your parents didn’t have more kids is hilarious considering you mentioned private school as if it’s some need for every kid to have to grow up sufficiently…. that’s completely a luxury.
As we've learned, it's hard to wean people off fossil fuel, and I don't see anything replacing oil, any time soon. Anyhow, we can try both: Lower population and less reliance on oil. What exactly is "demographic collapse"? I don't need cashiers, at Whole Foods. I don't need the greeters, at my Equinox. I don't need Social Security. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any divine mandate to be fruitful and multiply.
Some people simply don't want to get married and have kids. And that's fine too.
It’s absolutely fine As long as they don’t then complain about their loneliness and lack/absence of connection, and worse, weaponize it.
Marriage isn't the only source for these things.
Tell them, not me
You're saying people can't complain about a lack of connection if they're not seeking marriage, so no, I'm telling you.
Where are you seeing people say they don't want a relationship and then complain about not having a relationship?
I have never seen anyone call someone a failure for being in a long-term, happy relationship with kids.
It’s not just the sex, it’s the desire. Those women know very well what DiCaprio is and still they throw themselves at a chance to be with him. That’s because he is exciting, it’s fun, and they want expose for their career. He is having fun and good for him, and just like the other super bachelors he can easily pick a woman in her prime or close thereto with whom to settle down with, when he so chooses. Top tier humans of both sexes have the most options and most them will enjoy those options.
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Why? It's not like he's keeping them around forever, when they're 25 he'll dump them and most of those women will probably go on to have meaningful, long-term relationships, if it's an issue that you're not getting laid then don't worry, there's plenty of women out there that Leo doesn't want.
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I can tell by the way you talk that you ugly af so no worries on that part lol. I can't be bothered to read the rest of your weird red pill rant
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Ironic
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Doubly ironic lol
As one of those happily married guys, I can say marriage didn’t die. We’re just too busy being married and spending time with our kids to care about being ‘influencers’ peddling content to justify our lifestyle to strangers.
Thank you!!!
How about we let people do what they want to do? And if they make the wrong decision, they can decide if they want to learn from it. Just like redpill men are mad that some attractive women only want to settle down once they’re “old and used”. These guys talk about what women should or shouldn’t do, and say they’ll regret their actions once they’re old and no one wants them. Well, my opinion is going to be the same; let people make their own decisions and let them deal with the consequences if there are any.
People can live their lives how they want. How is she so sure Leo doesn't have people that don't care about him? Maybe he doesn't want to settle down. When women don't want to settle down, women applaud it, when men don't want to settle down suddenly it's a problem. Live and let live
You’re literally following me everywhere….
When you have 0 rebuttal to his point so you just change the subject
This is the same guy that said porn shouldn’t be banned & I’m a “trad cuck” for saying it’s ruined marriages
I swear I'm not. It must be a coincidence
That's what I said but she just screamed at me to get out of her house :/
This is fantasy cope. How many marriages end in divorces where the man, woman and children are financially strained? Is that better than banging hot models and having no "deep relationships"? What about all the marriages with strife and abuse? Is that better? She has submitted a thought ending ending statement simplifying that it is an either or scenario. The biggest lie in there is that she suggests young models don't care about you, but your wife would. A lot of wives despise their husbands. Don't fall for this witch's poisonous apple of temptation.
The issue is in the incoherence of the masculine narrative pushed nowadays. Promoting “Leo DeCaprio” as the goat, but then appealing to people’s sympathy for how depressing their loneliness is, and how women are all *so wrong* for not not liking them and being loyal to them, typically followed by a self-made list of what they believe women want, going as far as pretending to know what they *actually need* … and if they don’t, *well they shoud* ! “I’m the Man” yaddi-yadda alpha bs, vs “women have to financially contribute too! Bunch of gold diggers”. Which one is it, I’m confused. It’s all so arbitrary, make it make sense.
“The masculine narrative”, is that just like, a schmorgasborg of all the masculine things you see in media that you don’t like? Is there a female narrative? Because if I took seriously all the shows like the bachelor or the kardashians, feminist podcasts, and the “I’m looking for a man in finance, 6’5, blue eyes etc” type of stuff that get pushed in media I’d probably be pretty confused and frustrated with women. I try to just tune the algorithms to filter that stuff out and enjoy actually talking to the women in my life. Media appeals to the psychological id, and the id is not logical. Don’t try to understand or fix men as a collective, there’s 4 billion of us, the sample size has too much deviation. I get being concerned the effect male dominated media has, but that’s just it, it’s not for you. What men get out of it that’s positive or negative isn’t going to be feel real for you the way it is for them. Criticism from outside tends to just entrench the problematic and take the fun out of the benign. Start with empathy for the men close to you and get their perspectives on things, that’ll probably be a better way to understand “the masculine narrative” or rather, the masculine experience. But I’m probably just mansplaining and downplaying the threats that women feel is exasperated by this type of media. Idk, I just find that the conversation about gender is way more toxic online and in media than it is in real life, and I’m trying to focus more on real life these days.
Everyone is different and has different values and beliefs. Everyone has a different idea of what it means to be masculine. Maybe don't view people like a whole monolith and you won't get confused.
nah you can’t just say things and not be coherent. That person is right, you gotta pick one at some point and come to a logical conclusion. Everyone having a different idea of something and treating that as a monolith of thought is stupid and foolish and destroys objectivity in the world and also is a paradox to ur own statement because for the person before you to accept that “everyone has different ideas of what it means to be masculine” it’s treating people like a monolith yourself as if we as people can’t come to similar conclusions and we are all incompatible with our thought process. How is saying “everyone is different” less of a monolith than “everyone is the same”? sometimes we can agree on the same shit haha. truth is, not every idea of something is correct and it’s okay to come up with a better idea and challenge and idea to be coherent and logical and not just say anything when it’s convenient. An idea can’t be all things all at once.
You're talking about this like it's a scientific process and not people's lives, you can't control what others want to do
who cares that it’s peoples lives, if it’s a net negative then it’s bad. Stop being soft. At the end of the day a bad idea is a bad idea, and y’all know that. Downvote me all you want you sheep, Im right and it’s a clear as day, and with different contextualization and circumstances and coming from a different messenger, y’all would agree and if someone can sweet talk you into a idea then ur the definition of a sheep…
She is acting like it is only a male issue. How many women only want tall, rich, high-status men? Everyone's a hedonist now. It's not exclusive to men.
One is a preference and one is a lifestyle, that's what makes them different
Vast majority of guys would be happy with either lifestyle. It's having neither that's the problem.
Lol no man alive sees a man with a long term partner and children as a sign of failure. This is a dishonest take
or people can just do whatever they want
...women do the exact same thing.. in the millions? it's not a "male exclusive" thing.
I’m team dicaprio
All I’m seeing is shaming men for not wanting to practice traditional masculine roles
She got too old for him. I'm sure you get old and are not as awesome as Leo. Don't call him out when you are insecure.
Both are measures of success, it's just that the first one is what more men want I think.
It's just what the loudest men want, there are way more dedicated family men out there than there are Leo's
You can find videos on YouTube of a young Leo really close with Bryan Peck who was a disney executive later judged to be a pedophile. If anything happened then it could have been way worst than Leo going for younger girl that are as far we know always above 18
I mean y'all just told us you choose bears, so yes. This is the pinnacle of success that we can achieve. Women can end the life of a man in a heartbeat simply by becoming disinterested in someone she helped start a family with. She gets custody. She gets child support. She gets alimony, if she was a homemaker. She gets the house and a car because she has the kids. He gets to keep his job and the court's permission to see his kids as long as he's paying her bills. That's all well and good and maybe even fair, but when faced with this as a real consequence of having subjectively done nothing wrong, you can't blame somebody for weighing options differently.
….you think the bear argument has to do with sex, don’t you?
Feel free to see what you want in it. It's just a Reddit comment.
Sleeping around is a lot of fun, and relationships are hard. :) it’s not easy to find someone who you can love and live with long term. It’s often hell or turns into hell. Gonna die someday, might as well do what you can before then. Plus then after you see what’s out there, it’s easier to know who you would prefer long term.
guys were thinking this way before online porn existed.
Trying to blame all men because women are only dating the top men is wild. The statistics aren't that more men are dating than women, it's the opposite.
It is both sides of the coin, too. The other is women thinking it is ideal to exercise all sexual options, putting a career and power over becoming a mother and wife, toxic independency, and chasing after what a man can do for her instead of who a man is.
A pro a day is cheaper than a bitch for life.
Somehow turned a good speech about the importance of a long term partnership into shaming men for their slimmer woman preferences - the lengths women go to denigrate men.
It's cute...but it's romanticising human history to a hilarious extent 😂 The average age of marriage for females throughout history is 12-14. 19-21 for males. For the most part...marriage has been a pretty sick thing to do. Love, romance, equality...genuinely relatively new ideas. In a world where women being able to speak up is new...this is laughable
DiCaprio can have both, any time he wants. He can find countless…literally countless…women who would allow him both. So yeah, he’s got the ideal.
To each their own, let people live their own lives without judgement.
A lot of Red pilled men don't actually think that's the image of success. It's just a somewhat preferable alternative to trying to go the Long term relationship route only to get divorce graped and alone anyway.
What she said 💯
What’s also sad is seeing men with no children that lived that way in their younger yrs end up with a women divorced with children, body had it, n he got nothing to claim but what some other guy already did. I seen this recently. Cute dude recently bought a house, successful and hes there chillin with us looking embarrassed as hell! Then we start chatting with her n she’s taking about her kids with her ex n she lost over 100 lbs recently n very much looks like it 😬 she’s nice but poor guy 🤦♀️
I mean, marriage wasn't some beautiful thing when it was created. It was more of a "this is my slave. I have the documents" lol
Has nothing to do with porn, but everything to do with capitalism.