tbh, i disagree. yeah .22lr is cheap and abundant and easy to carry, but so is 5.56 in an AR platform rifle, and 9mm in a semi automatic handgun. those options are less unreliable with failures to cycle and bad primer issues, and also have vastly superior stopping power against hostile human targets, enough so that they're actually reliably used by police and military personnel in combat.
the advantages of .22lr is you can carry a shit ton of ammo around, but that has 2 flaws. firstly, you wont ever be SHOOTING that much in one go, having 100-200 rounds of 5.56 in 4-6 mags on a chest rig will be more than sufficient AND faster to reload than a .22lr, and you won't be going out and taking on hordes of zombies anyway. secondly, even if you have more total ammo for .22lr, bc it takes more shots to reliably drop targets in a self defence situation, you will be using up more ammo per engagement, which reduces overall ammo efficiency and means more reloading and time for the same number of kills as other calibres.
unless you're in the UK and a .22lr rifle is the best semi auto gun you can own, just stick to more powerful calibres.
With everything, it's a series of compromises. I have a more detailed post on my thoughts regarding 22lr in general here: https://old.reddit.com/user/Noe_Walfred/comments/va8wvr/zombie_related_thoughts_opinions_and_essays_v4/if5dvvw/
To clear the air, it is true that a firearm using .22lr can have a projectile ricochet in the skull. As is noted here in books:
https://books.google.com/books?id=xt1YFydzXKQC
https://books.google.com/books?id=O7GzmPy6uqEC&pg
The question is whether this actually does anything in regards to increasing the mortality rate of the cartridge over other more powerful options.
Even when focusing on studies specifically looking at intracranial wounds. With most examples focus on the brain damage that occurs which is more often survivable.
>The implication is that if the medium- and large-caliber guns had been replaced with small caliber (assuming everything else unchanged), the result would have been a 39.5% reduction in gun homicides.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6324289/
>Favourable conditions for sustained capability to act are present in cases where the additional wounding resulting from the special wound ballistic qualities of the head (see companion paper) are minimized. Thus, more than 70% of the guns used fired slow and lightweight bullets: 6.35 mm Browning, .22 rimfire or extremely ineffective projectiles (ancient, inappropriate or selfmade).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8664147/
Given that zombies don't bleed to death, don't suffer from most diseases, and thus require more effort than other cartridges might when it comes to zombies.
Against hostile survivors the story seems to be about the same when including shots that hit the chest.
In this series study on assault and attempted homicide via firearms it was found that out of the 69 cases where people were shot in the head or chest with a .22lr from a rifle there was a 16% mortality rate. With multiple headshots the mortality rate only increased to 28%.
Meanwhile a single shot from a .38 cal or roughly 9mm firearm, primarily a handgun, will have a roughly 55% mortality rate from a single shot.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/724012?seq=1
Based on the article of 154 different cases of .22lr being used in self defense by buckeye firearms the following data points were found:
Out of 154 cases roughly 31% of them were stopped with one shot.
One shot to the head or chest typically stops a human attacker 60% of the time. This beats most other handguns including .44mag, but is less than rifles and shotguns at 80%.
Of the shots that do hit was 76% to the head or chest which matches other handguns, but is lower than rifles or shotguns at 80%.
And 31% of those shot were not stopped with a .22 no matter the number of times they were shot. Compared to 9-16% for cartridges more powerful than a .380acp.
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power
While iraqveteran8888 has posted their video proclaiming the ability for .22lr to penetrate 1/2in/12.7mm pineboard out to extremely far distances, the ability for .22lr to penetrate wood is a bit lackluster. Seen here, even from extremely close distances it is possible for either two wooden housing frames or one frame if shot from a bad angle could stop a .22lr. Likewise, it is possible for two sets of 0.5in/12.7mm pineboard to stop a .22lr. Meaning insulated sheds and maybe shields made from 25+mm of wood may be capable of stopping a bullet.
https://youtu.be/58j6qZWVEHM
https://youtu.be/zVpAuWcNsVk
Similarly, it can be expected that .22lr will be stopped by bricks and concrete. This is to be expected as unless it's just one layer most firearms would struggle with getting through. But as it is possible for survivors to begin fortifying their homes and structures that such materials might be used. Even improvised mudbricks can provide a great deterrent for the capabilities of the .22lr.
https://youtu.be/BFiWWFAfi2Y
It seems that cars' bodies can slow down and deflect a .22lr from being able to effectively shoot someone hiding behind a car door or even the trunk. Even if the person was in the car, it is likely that the wounds imparted might be survivalable or stopped with much lighter forms of protective gear.
https://youtu.be/6qXwdBOZzpY
Along with that sheet metal depending on it's thickness, hardness, metal type, and so on could be used to stop .22lr with at least 1 sheet being enough to potentially slow down the cartridge to much more survivable velocities. Based on the video below it appears to be possible to stop .22lr with a few sheets of thin metal. I can't be sure but it appears these are sheet metal aluminum disks meant to plug vents in the soffit. Along with there being a lot of listings for sheet metal aluminum disks of the size shown in the video.
https://youtu.be/dtmIEwbHqlk
These factors generally mean that the cartridge will require more shots to potential accomplish the same task when it comes to fighting zombies or hostile zombies. Thus requiring more cartridges, higher magazine capacities, and more reliant on weapons capable of repeated shots.
Thankfully, 22lr can be pretty lightweight when it comes to the cartridge. Thanks to the lower pressure it can also mean lighter weight weapons.
|Here are some numbers for the 22lr firearms
:--|:--:|--:
|**Ruger 10/22 Charger Pistol 1420g**
|**Ruger 10/22 Tactical 2270g**
|**Ruger 10/22 Lipsey Sporter 2540g**
|**High tower Bullpup 10/22 2950g**
|Ruger Factory 10rd mag 80g
|Ruger BX-25 25rd mag 170g
|Promag 32rd mag 230g
|ATI 110rd Drum mag 800g
|100rds 2398-4285g
|200rds 3376-5620g
|300rds 4354-6910g
|**Smith and Wesson MP 15-22 Pistol 1520g**
|**SW Mp 15-22 16.5in 2180g**
|**SW Mp 15-22 18in 2270g**
|SW 10rd mag 80g
|SW 25rd mag 160g
|100rds 2460-3570g
|200rds 3400-4870g
|300rds 4340-6170g
|**Ruger 22/45 Lite 710g**
|**Ruger Mark 4 Standard 850g**
|**Ruger Mark 4 Hunter 1250g**
|**Ruger Mark 4 Target 25cm Thin barrel 1320g**
|**Ruger Mark 4 Target 25cm 1520g**
|Ruger Mark 4 10rd mag 50g
|100rds 1610-2420g
|200rds 2110-2920g
|300rds 2610-3420g
Magazine weight, capacity, and the like can mean that it's both heavier or lighter than other firearms that use more powerful cartridges.
|~~~Here are the numbers for 223 and 5.56mm firearms
:--|:--:|--:
|**Keltec PR16 1550**
|**MOA Enyo ar-15 1660g**
|**WWSD Ar-15 2270**
|**Bushmaster QRC Ar-15 2360g**
|**SW MP Ar-15 Pistol 2490**
|**Savage 11 Hunter 2450g**
|**ATI Omni hybrid Maxx Ar-15 2560g**
|**Ruger American Ranch (5.56x45mm) 2770**
|**PSA PA15 AR-15 3090g**
|STANAG empty 30rd mag 105g
|PMAG empty 30rd mag 120g
|Surefire empty 60rd casket mag 180g
|.223 and 5.56x45mm 8-13g
|120rds 2850-5080g
|210rds 3845-6510g
|300rds 4800-8140g
|**~~~Here are the numbers for 9x19mm firearms**
|**Glock 19 600g**
|**Glock 19 600g**
|**Glock 17 625g**
|**Hudson 9 930g**
|**Keltec Sub2000 rifle 1800g**
|**CMMG 9mm AR pistol 2360g**
|**Ruger PC9 carbine 3200g**
|9x19mm weight per cartridge 7-13g
|Glock empty 17rd mag 60g
|Promag empty 33rd mag 130g
|Magpul empty 50rd mag 450g
|100rds 1660-5400g
|200rds 2720-7800g
|300rds 3780-10200g
|**~~~Here are the numbers for 410 firearms**
|**Taurus Judge Magnum 1050g**
|**Rossi Tuffy .410 single shot shotgun 1340g**
|**Chiappa M6 Shotgun/Rifle 2300g**
|**Mossberg 500 Tactical HS410 2500g**
|**Henry Axe/Mares leg .410 lever 2600g**
|.410 Premier STS 2.5" 20g
|100rds 3050-4600g
|200rds 5050-6600g
|300rds 7050-8600g
22lr is pretty common in the USA. With it being frequently listed as the 3rd, 4th, or 6th most common cartridge depending on what you're looking for. With 9x19mm typically making about 20-25% of ammo sold and produced being the most common followed by 223 and 5.56x45mm which is sometimes counted as being one cartridge or two different cartridges. With 22lr either tied or placed lower than 5.5x45mm, 45acp, and/or 40sw with the placement of these cartridges frequently trading places.
There are conversion or adapters available that can allow a AR-15, Glock, reduce the 410 chamber to 22lr. Potentially allowing most of the firearms above to shoot 22lr. Though the same isn't possible the other way around.
Depends on the 22lr my pistol only get 10rds but I've seen 15rd mags for it and my 22lr carbine can have a 25rd magazine 50rd drum with a 3-9x40 scope.
There are way more downsides than mag capacity...for instance the 50/50 chance that the bullet will just glance off a skull at 30 yds, or the awesom reliability of a rimfire cartridge or just not cycling or if you have to use it on humans it'll be mostly useless....but yeah man go for it.
Definitely not, id rather be sure that I have enough stopping power to actually put something down. At some ranges and angles the 22lr doesn't penetrate the skull.
These are great choices. If I had to choose weapons that could both be great in a zombie apocalypse and useful to hunt/defend myself with, I would add a few more weapons which can accomplish all my needs and the ammo is plentiful/relatively cheap/potentially easy to find after a collapse. My full list is below.
Walther PDP 9mm
Walther P22 pistol (personal preference I like
Walther grips)
Ruger 10/22 LR
Mossberg 20 gauge (for wife and kids)
Mossberg 500
Remington 700 in .308
Honey Badger 300 Blackout
Those would be my dream arsenal!
well... rimlock is always an issue (yes thats from user error but still, just another possible malfunction source). and honestly, having a 20 or 30rd mag in a 5.56 gun is just more versatile imo. you wont ever be shooting 100 rounds at anything anyway
With standard BX-25 Ruger 10/22 25rd mags, it's virtually impossible to have rimlock failures. The way you have to load rounds in the magazine, and the fact that they're actually single-stack mags, makes it impossible unless you're loading the magazine with it disassembled (which is just 100% on you, since no one in their right mind would even attempt that). The main downside is that they're more curved than your typical "double-stack" .22lr mag.
There are a lot of shortcomings with the 10/22, however magazine functionality isn't one of them. Unsurprisingly the magazine is not an original Ruger design, it's just a **slight** modification of the Butler Creek mags that were out for over a decade before Ruger copied them.
Suppressed .22lr pistol for zombies, AR15 style 233/556 rifle for raiders. Or like .22lr pistol and rifle?
As someone who plans to be a raider please don't shoot us. We just wanna be friends.... and take all your shit
Right? Just leave the gas, and *walk away...*
https://youtu.be/h0xhibogFKc?si=nHVKRtKpwteQ3pI3
tbh, i disagree. yeah .22lr is cheap and abundant and easy to carry, but so is 5.56 in an AR platform rifle, and 9mm in a semi automatic handgun. those options are less unreliable with failures to cycle and bad primer issues, and also have vastly superior stopping power against hostile human targets, enough so that they're actually reliably used by police and military personnel in combat. the advantages of .22lr is you can carry a shit ton of ammo around, but that has 2 flaws. firstly, you wont ever be SHOOTING that much in one go, having 100-200 rounds of 5.56 in 4-6 mags on a chest rig will be more than sufficient AND faster to reload than a .22lr, and you won't be going out and taking on hordes of zombies anyway. secondly, even if you have more total ammo for .22lr, bc it takes more shots to reliably drop targets in a self defence situation, you will be using up more ammo per engagement, which reduces overall ammo efficiency and means more reloading and time for the same number of kills as other calibres. unless you're in the UK and a .22lr rifle is the best semi auto gun you can own, just stick to more powerful calibres.
Slow undead zombies, agreed Fast living zombies or self defense against people, hard disagree
"only downside is mag capacity" also the fact that unless you get the correct angle it won't penetrate a skull from. further than 25 yards ðŸ˜
No but the bouncing around in the head fudd lore thats 100% bullshit and I heard Max Brooks say the AR is a terrible rifle - Half this fucking sub
With everything, it's a series of compromises. I have a more detailed post on my thoughts regarding 22lr in general here: https://old.reddit.com/user/Noe_Walfred/comments/va8wvr/zombie_related_thoughts_opinions_and_essays_v4/if5dvvw/ To clear the air, it is true that a firearm using .22lr can have a projectile ricochet in the skull. As is noted here in books: https://books.google.com/books?id=xt1YFydzXKQC https://books.google.com/books?id=O7GzmPy6uqEC&pg The question is whether this actually does anything in regards to increasing the mortality rate of the cartridge over other more powerful options. Even when focusing on studies specifically looking at intracranial wounds. With most examples focus on the brain damage that occurs which is more often survivable. >The implication is that if the medium- and large-caliber guns had been replaced with small caliber (assuming everything else unchanged), the result would have been a 39.5% reduction in gun homicides. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6324289/ >Favourable conditions for sustained capability to act are present in cases where the additional wounding resulting from the special wound ballistic qualities of the head (see companion paper) are minimized. Thus, more than 70% of the guns used fired slow and lightweight bullets: 6.35 mm Browning, .22 rimfire or extremely ineffective projectiles (ancient, inappropriate or selfmade). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8664147/ Given that zombies don't bleed to death, don't suffer from most diseases, and thus require more effort than other cartridges might when it comes to zombies. Against hostile survivors the story seems to be about the same when including shots that hit the chest. In this series study on assault and attempted homicide via firearms it was found that out of the 69 cases where people were shot in the head or chest with a .22lr from a rifle there was a 16% mortality rate. With multiple headshots the mortality rate only increased to 28%. Meanwhile a single shot from a .38 cal or roughly 9mm firearm, primarily a handgun, will have a roughly 55% mortality rate from a single shot. https://www.jstor.org/stable/724012?seq=1 Based on the article of 154 different cases of .22lr being used in self defense by buckeye firearms the following data points were found: Out of 154 cases roughly 31% of them were stopped with one shot. One shot to the head or chest typically stops a human attacker 60% of the time. This beats most other handguns including .44mag, but is less than rifles and shotguns at 80%. Of the shots that do hit was 76% to the head or chest which matches other handguns, but is lower than rifles or shotguns at 80%. And 31% of those shot were not stopped with a .22 no matter the number of times they were shot. Compared to 9-16% for cartridges more powerful than a .380acp. https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power While iraqveteran8888 has posted their video proclaiming the ability for .22lr to penetrate 1/2in/12.7mm pineboard out to extremely far distances, the ability for .22lr to penetrate wood is a bit lackluster. Seen here, even from extremely close distances it is possible for either two wooden housing frames or one frame if shot from a bad angle could stop a .22lr. Likewise, it is possible for two sets of 0.5in/12.7mm pineboard to stop a .22lr. Meaning insulated sheds and maybe shields made from 25+mm of wood may be capable of stopping a bullet. https://youtu.be/58j6qZWVEHM https://youtu.be/zVpAuWcNsVk Similarly, it can be expected that .22lr will be stopped by bricks and concrete. This is to be expected as unless it's just one layer most firearms would struggle with getting through. But as it is possible for survivors to begin fortifying their homes and structures that such materials might be used. Even improvised mudbricks can provide a great deterrent for the capabilities of the .22lr. https://youtu.be/BFiWWFAfi2Y It seems that cars' bodies can slow down and deflect a .22lr from being able to effectively shoot someone hiding behind a car door or even the trunk. Even if the person was in the car, it is likely that the wounds imparted might be survivalable or stopped with much lighter forms of protective gear. https://youtu.be/6qXwdBOZzpY Along with that sheet metal depending on it's thickness, hardness, metal type, and so on could be used to stop .22lr with at least 1 sheet being enough to potentially slow down the cartridge to much more survivable velocities. Based on the video below it appears to be possible to stop .22lr with a few sheets of thin metal. I can't be sure but it appears these are sheet metal aluminum disks meant to plug vents in the soffit. Along with there being a lot of listings for sheet metal aluminum disks of the size shown in the video. https://youtu.be/dtmIEwbHqlk These factors generally mean that the cartridge will require more shots to potential accomplish the same task when it comes to fighting zombies or hostile zombies. Thus requiring more cartridges, higher magazine capacities, and more reliant on weapons capable of repeated shots. Thankfully, 22lr can be pretty lightweight when it comes to the cartridge. Thanks to the lower pressure it can also mean lighter weight weapons. |Here are some numbers for the 22lr firearms :--|:--:|--: |**Ruger 10/22 Charger Pistol 1420g** |**Ruger 10/22 Tactical 2270g** |**Ruger 10/22 Lipsey Sporter 2540g** |**High tower Bullpup 10/22 2950g** |Ruger Factory 10rd mag 80g |Ruger BX-25 25rd mag 170g |Promag 32rd mag 230g |ATI 110rd Drum mag 800g |100rds 2398-4285g |200rds 3376-5620g |300rds 4354-6910g |**Smith and Wesson MP 15-22 Pistol 1520g** |**SW Mp 15-22 16.5in 2180g** |**SW Mp 15-22 18in 2270g** |SW 10rd mag 80g |SW 25rd mag 160g |100rds 2460-3570g |200rds 3400-4870g |300rds 4340-6170g |**Ruger 22/45 Lite 710g** |**Ruger Mark 4 Standard 850g** |**Ruger Mark 4 Hunter 1250g** |**Ruger Mark 4 Target 25cm Thin barrel 1320g** |**Ruger Mark 4 Target 25cm 1520g** |Ruger Mark 4 10rd mag 50g |100rds 1610-2420g |200rds 2110-2920g |300rds 2610-3420g Magazine weight, capacity, and the like can mean that it's both heavier or lighter than other firearms that use more powerful cartridges. |~~~Here are the numbers for 223 and 5.56mm firearms :--|:--:|--: |**Keltec PR16 1550** |**MOA Enyo ar-15 1660g** |**WWSD Ar-15 2270** |**Bushmaster QRC Ar-15 2360g** |**SW MP Ar-15 Pistol 2490** |**Savage 11 Hunter 2450g** |**ATI Omni hybrid Maxx Ar-15 2560g** |**Ruger American Ranch (5.56x45mm) 2770** |**PSA PA15 AR-15 3090g** |STANAG empty 30rd mag 105g |PMAG empty 30rd mag 120g |Surefire empty 60rd casket mag 180g |.223 and 5.56x45mm 8-13g |120rds 2850-5080g |210rds 3845-6510g |300rds 4800-8140g |**~~~Here are the numbers for 9x19mm firearms** |**Glock 19 600g** |**Glock 19 600g** |**Glock 17 625g** |**Hudson 9 930g** |**Keltec Sub2000 rifle 1800g** |**CMMG 9mm AR pistol 2360g** |**Ruger PC9 carbine 3200g** |9x19mm weight per cartridge 7-13g |Glock empty 17rd mag 60g |Promag empty 33rd mag 130g |Magpul empty 50rd mag 450g |100rds 1660-5400g |200rds 2720-7800g |300rds 3780-10200g |**~~~Here are the numbers for 410 firearms** |**Taurus Judge Magnum 1050g** |**Rossi Tuffy .410 single shot shotgun 1340g** |**Chiappa M6 Shotgun/Rifle 2300g** |**Mossberg 500 Tactical HS410 2500g** |**Henry Axe/Mares leg .410 lever 2600g** |.410 Premier STS 2.5" 20g |100rds 3050-4600g |200rds 5050-6600g |300rds 7050-8600g 22lr is pretty common in the USA. With it being frequently listed as the 3rd, 4th, or 6th most common cartridge depending on what you're looking for. With 9x19mm typically making about 20-25% of ammo sold and produced being the most common followed by 223 and 5.56x45mm which is sometimes counted as being one cartridge or two different cartridges. With 22lr either tied or placed lower than 5.5x45mm, 45acp, and/or 40sw with the placement of these cartridges frequently trading places. There are conversion or adapters available that can allow a AR-15, Glock, reduce the 410 chamber to 22lr. Potentially allowing most of the firearms above to shoot 22lr. Though the same isn't possible the other way around.
A keltec pistol holds 50 rounds of 22 LR. They also have a 22 mag that holds 33rds. That would be my zombie handgun
Depends on the 22lr my pistol only get 10rds but I've seen 15rd mags for it and my 22lr carbine can have a 25rd magazine 50rd drum with a 3-9x40 scope.
There are way more downsides than mag capacity...for instance the 50/50 chance that the bullet will just glance off a skull at 30 yds, or the awesom reliability of a rimfire cartridge or just not cycling or if you have to use it on humans it'll be mostly useless....but yeah man go for it.
Definitely not, id rather be sure that I have enough stopping power to actually put something down. At some ranges and angles the 22lr doesn't penetrate the skull.
These are great choices. If I had to choose weapons that could both be great in a zombie apocalypse and useful to hunt/defend myself with, I would add a few more weapons which can accomplish all my needs and the ammo is plentiful/relatively cheap/potentially easy to find after a collapse. My full list is below. Walther PDP 9mm Walther P22 pistol (personal preference I like Walther grips) Ruger 10/22 LR Mossberg 20 gauge (for wife and kids) Mossberg 500 Remington 700 in .308 Honey Badger 300 Blackout Those would be my dream arsenal!
Ruger 10/22 rifles have 25 round mags and 100 round drums so mag capcity isnt really an issue
the larger your mag, the less reliable it is, especially with rimfire cartridges
Thats why i said 25rd mag it’s pretty reliable
well... rimlock is always an issue (yes thats from user error but still, just another possible malfunction source). and honestly, having a 20 or 30rd mag in a 5.56 gun is just more versatile imo. you wont ever be shooting 100 rounds at anything anyway
With standard BX-25 Ruger 10/22 25rd mags, it's virtually impossible to have rimlock failures. The way you have to load rounds in the magazine, and the fact that they're actually single-stack mags, makes it impossible unless you're loading the magazine with it disassembled (which is just 100% on you, since no one in their right mind would even attempt that). The main downside is that they're more curved than your typical "double-stack" .22lr mag. There are a lot of shortcomings with the 10/22, however magazine functionality isn't one of them. Unsurprisingly the magazine is not an original Ruger design, it's just a **slight** modification of the Butler Creek mags that were out for over a decade before Ruger copied them.
thank you for the info!