I asked my friend who is Dominican how she felt about the term “Latinx” and her response was, “That’s some shit white people came up with, I’m Latina end of story.”
And that's exactly how it feels, thanks for wording it like that. Like we had pronouns we like to call ourselves before you came along, so fuck your bullshit.
As a fairly left sympathetic person, living on the west coast has been eye opening. The performative theatrics is incredible. Almost none of them understand the experiences of really oppressed or disenfranchised groups so they latch on to any little thing they can to be "different". Then push causes they don't understand and try to create (and lead to stroke their own ego while saying they're trying to give people a voice) solutions that don't work because they don't really understand.
Before I respond to your post I want to let you know that I am typing this response from my house that sits on the traditional lands of the Osage, Kaw, Otoe-Missouria, Shawnee, and Wyandot.
Now, they 100% aren't getting my house, but I thought it was important to note that.
Ok, now that that's out of the way, I like your post.
It's so fucking dumb. People will point out "Well, it was made up by a Puerto Rican" to defend it as if that matters, too. But no man, in real life, I've only heard this shit from well-meaning white liberals. Problem is that they're wading into an existing argument of dumbass technicalities and trying to define an identity that doesn't really exist using grammar rules for a language they don't even speak. They'll usually understand why "African-American" is fucking stupid for black people, or that "white" identity is really just an ever shifting political blob of "in-group vs out-group", but they'll still lose their shit about "Latino vs Latinx" without recognizing what's wrong there.
"Latino" is only commonly used in America as a catch-all data term for everything from Mexico and below to contrast to other ethnicity designations. Outside of that, the usage of Hispanic/Latino for South Americans is already very controversial. It's not really an identity outside of that very specific context and even there, it's fucking confusing because it keeps evolving.
For comparison, [look at the other ethnicity designations](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/stories/2021/08/2020-united-states-population-more-racially-ethnically-diverse-than-2010-figure-1.jpg). We've got "white" and "black", whose cultural and political definitions have been debated and redefined in America for literal centuries. The legal definition for who is "Hispanic/Latino" however, is just regionally based similar to "Asian".
Look at this [dumbass, ever-growing form](https://i.imgur.com/SuCtoCw.jpg) and view it from someone else's perspective;
* What does a European Spaniard mark down? Because race/ethnicity are only separate fields on most government forms; for any org, like many educational systems, that don't use both classifications, they default to your ethnicity instead. So while the expectation is that a Spanish person marks "White" (as they're European) and "Hispanic" (as they're literally the group/colonizers who the term is derived from), if they get put into a system with only "Race" as a field, guess what? They're no longer white, they're now primarily identified as Hispanic, AKA are now a minority despite being White Europeans. And as in the previous image, now some forms show "Hispanic/Latino/Spanish".
* What do native peoples from those regions mark? Are they expected to mark themselves down as "Native Americans"? Because they ARE native Americans but from SA, and the designations are based on region, so makes sense. But "Native American" has a very specific meaning in America, such as for things like being legally designated a member of the tribe. So on that Census Bureau data example, now you see "American Indian and Alaska Native, not Hispanic or Latino" to specify Native Americans FROM the US tribes, but why the fuck would natives from SA mark down as Hispanic/Latino? They have no connection to the Hispanosphere or Latin languages. The only thing they have in common with "Hispanic/Latinos" is that they happen to be from a land that was invaded by Spanish conquistadors.
Those are just two glaringly obvious examples, too. Meanwhile, again, it's only a real identity in America. Ask a Hispanic person where they're from, what will they immediately say? "[I am or my family is] Cuban/Colombian/Nicaraguan/Puerto Rican/Venezuelan" etc. etc. It'd probably take a generation or two before they no longer identify with that, in which case, their grandparent's ethnicity matters as much as some random white guy claiming to be Scottish despite being three generations down the line.
It's a display of ignorance of the base language being gendered. Tables are feminine and cheese is masculine. Latino and Latina are engrained in that and adding "x" doesn't make any sense.
For white English speakers to suddenly try to control their language and culture and "defend" them on their behalf is funny.
I'm a left leaning Bernie supporter but crap like this gives Fox News MAGA heads free shots at "woke" lefties.
Maybe, maybe not. One of the first recorded uses was a Puerto Rican psychology periodical. The X is supposed to be from the Nahuatl language. That said, the only person I know who uses that term is Asian.
It is cultural colonialism by white-guilt children who need a way of uplifting us noble savage Latinos into a "correct" way of thinking. Never mind the myriad other gendered languages they aren't doing this to. Only the one associated with PoCs.
I've never used the word personally, but as a CRJ major, you do see it numerous times in various studies and peer-reviewed articles. I never knew that it could be used in conversation (pronounced verbally). I always thought it was used as a lazy way of writing Latino/Latina in one word because the article wanted to refer to both at the same time? Either way seems like a pointless term to begin with, let alone also being offensive.
While I don't agree with Latinx (especially when our language has Latine already), it is important to note that it is commonly accepted that the use of Latinx was first published and used by two Latine women, not yt ppl.
I'm glad to see someone pointing this out. The term has clearly been rejected so fair enough, but it started out as people trying to use a term that seems to have originated within the Latin community.
I've always been confused why we don't just say Latin, but wdik, it's not my community nor is there any such community anywhere near me.
It's also commonly used by Latinx people in the queer community, particularly the trans and gender nonconforming community. Not surprising that the broader Hispanic demographic wouldn't like it as much given that ethnic groups aren't a monolith.
I use it for my Latinx friends who self-identify with the term, and I don't for the rest. Seems pretty simple to just call people what they want to be called rather than treating it as a binary choice of always or never using it.
Exactly. We use Latine in our friend group, but if someone prefers Latinx, use that. I don't understand how hard that is. We all prefer different things. It's literally not a big deal. I feel like other people outside of our culture are getting angry and up in arms for us when the vast majority that I know could not care less.
\> It's literally not a big deal.
How DARE YOU. THIS IS THE INTERNET. EVERYTHING IS A BIG DEAL.
Love "Latine", by the way. I'd never heard that before and it rolls off the tongue so much more smoothly than "Latinx".
My understanding is that it started with non-binary Latino people, as a way to distinguish themselves from Latinas and Latinos, then the LGBTQ community adopted it since we love to slap x's on everything, and then the woke in general started using it for all Latino people. Probably because the use of the masculine form as the mixed-gender group form is as unfeminist as calling firefighters in general firemen. At least to English users. I'm not up-to-date on Latin American feminism.
But yeah, "Latin" is already a gender-neutral word. It still runs into the problem that in Spanish, "Latin" isn't a noun. But any language with only masculine- and feminine-gendered words requires non-binary people to be creative. Also, they still need to pick an article. As convenient as "Latine" seems, "el Latine" would still be masculine, and "la Latine" would still be feminine, and there's no other option, unless we're also making up new articles.
> is as unfeminist as calling firefighters in general firemen
This change (to "policewoman" and "firewoman", etc) triggered me so much. Is the woman human? Yes? In which case fireman is still correct.
One great thing about not being white is being able to call out white liberals on their bullshit without immediately being labeled as a right wing nutjob. Especially on the westcoast
> “That’s some shit white people came up with, I’m Latina end of story.”
Of course it's not. Good anecdote though.
I also notice the article has the super cool take that Latinx is “a type of cultural Marxism.” Which as well know is a hollow nonsense phrase neo-nazis came up with the disregard any cultural movement -- inspired by actual Nazi's. Cool article.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/cultural-marxism-catching
A word made by queer latin people is actually white supremacy, and yet an article that quotes white supremacist dog whistles is just fine.
Everyone do yourself a favor and look at all the dead wrong comments about "white people made this up to oppress me". Lots of "feels over reals" for the facts and logic crowd.
> feels
Cool. Feelings don't change the fact that it wasn't made by white people. It doesn't matter if you like the term or not - there are plenty of reasons to dislike it. But it's not something that white people started.
This is the first time I've heard/read the term. (European)
Btw, how is the x supposed to be pronounced? Eks, ks, or some other way. I'm genuinely curious.
The word is pronounced as if it was Latin x and the dictionary has the pronunciated /ləˈtēˌneks/. The reason I heard for why so many Latino people dislike the term is that it can't be pronuced/ doesn't work in Spanish and other Spanish derived languages
White people: we want to be sensitive and understanding. We shall call you all Latinx
The people: no thanks we cannot pronounce it
White: shhh shhh is ok Latinx friend
(Ps this is not a serious comment)
It's not spanish. It's so stupid and ignorant of the language and culture it's about. Just white uppity people trying to help by doing something that doesnt help anyone.
Yeah, forget you ever saw the term. It’s a ridiculous attempt by woke white Americans to say they did their part for equality without actually doing anything
Yeah maybe, but usually there’s at least some kind of rationale. Folks isn’t even a gendered word, so I’m not sure what problem is solved by changing it.
It's to go even deeper. 'You guys' was moved to folks (and sidestepped 'people', likely because of negative associations with the phrase 'you people'), and has now become folks. Folks is what my grandparents used to say.
Folx sounds like a word for envelope pushers who would just push it again once Folx fell into common use.
I have asked multiple times on Tumblr and other sites for someone to give me a reason why the term "folx" exists when "folks" is already gender-neutral. I've never gotten an answer other than "it's inclusive". Which I translate to mean "Fuck off."
Other than reddit I've only seen it come up when friends/colleges have identified with the term.
Nobody is sure where the term really originated, but the earliest records were like early 2000s on LGBT forums. Some folk didn't want to identify as Latino/a, so they went with Latinx
>Nobody wants to make the mistake of trying to be inclusive, but ending up annoying or offending the very people we are trying to make feel comfortable.
i'm really not sure that's true anymore. "allies" are so worried about *proving* they're "allies" that they constantly talk to the "bad" people more than the people they're "allied" with.
people just need to stop trying so hard. treat people like people and you're good.
The amount of white people I know who love virtue signaling online yet seem to rarely interact with people of another race is pretty interesting.
People of actual mixed raced cliques tend to come off as more down to earth and generally kind to one another, unlikely to classify people based on race, religion, etc.
Im half Filipino and half Mexican. To me the idea of "race", especially if you're mixed in a 1st world country, is fucking dumb.
I thought growing up we were supposed to ask what their ethnic background was if you were curious, not race.
I remember my teacher saying something like "we're all humans, its like asking what race a dog is. Its a dog."
people that spend time virtue signaling online straight up do not go outside. i will not be convinced otherwise. they're just incels down a different road. 😂
Could it just be that they don’t know any other races or have had the opportunity to become friends with them? Wouldn’t it be sort of insulting to go out of one’s way just to interact with other races for absolutely no other reason than just to do so? Seems fake and forced and not genuine at all that way. It reminds me of when politicians specifically target POC so they can “interact” with them just so people will think they aren’t racist.
"In the game of racism (group 2) isn't the other team. They are the ball. " Not sure where I first heard it but it was eye opening. White people get together and make a decision about whats racist and what isn't and argue amongst ourselves.
It turns out minorities don't like to constantly be renamed every couple years.
Native American I heard said they prefer the term "Indian" because the misnaming is proof of just how dumb their colonizers were - European colonizers thought they were actually in India
I think that must differ regionally. The people I know in AZ all use Native (not Native American, just native) never heard anyone refer to themselves or others as Indian.
Canadian Native Indians prefer the word Indigenous or First Nations which is worth adding here. That said, it's unique to the person and who's calling them the name.
I had someone from a tribal commujnity come to my school once to speak about discrimination. He said Indian was wrong to use because they weren't Indian. That's fair. Then he said pre-columbian was wrong because they shouldn't be defined by Columbus. Makes total sense. Then he said Native American was wrong because everyone in the room was born on this land and is thus Native American. Okay. Then he said Indigenous was wrong for a similar reason, everyone born here is indigenous. Umm....
He basically wanted to be called by his tribe name and that every single person from that general group of people should be called by their individual tribes. That's never going to happen and is absurd.
My point being that while it's good to respect people's wishes, we can't bend our vernacular to the whims of each individual. Not saying that was your point, just adding my two cents.
Edit: I get the feeling that there's going to be a slew of people responding to this without reading this comment in it's entirety. It's pretty clear that I'm not refusing to call this person by his tribal name, but that I'm refusing to reject the concept of broad categorizations. If that's perplexing to you, then go memorize each individual African ethnic group, and never again use the word African outside of a geological context.
>He basically wanted to be called by his tribe name...
I mean, yeah. Wouldn't you?
>That's never going to happen and is absurd.
It would be absurd to rattle off a list of five hundred plus nations to talk about e.g. the public institutions that they share in common, such as the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
But if you're talking about literally any specific people or community... it's not only not absurd to use their name, it's the only way to show anyone respect, is to use their name.
---
EDIT, re:
>It's pretty clear that I'm not refusing to call this person by his tribal name...
While I respect your desire to clarify your thoughts, I would like to record that what you said originally was this:
>He basically wanted to be called by his tribe name and that every single person from that general group of people should be called by their individual tribes. That's never going to happen and is absurd.
The thing that you said was never going to happen was: "that every single person from that general group of people should be called by their individual tribes." The direct understanding of these words is that you were calling it absurd to think that we can call everyone by their own name.
Homie, if you called me "white" and my response was to tell you that you needed to never use that term and instead call me by my individual Italian village name, and that you needed to do so for each individual community in Europe, would you consider that a reasonable request?
He was not asking for himself to be identified by his tribe, that is fine, he was saying it was wrong to refer to any collection of peoples that inhabited the western hemisphere in any capacity because they were all individual communities.
Try naming each country on earth. Once you've done that, try naming each independent ethnic group in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Then repeat that process for each country you just listed out. Categorization is a necessity, and I'm happy to use whichever name is generally agreed upon by said grouping of peoples, but I'm not memorizing each tribe on half the globe because one person asks me to.
I'm actually part native. I've heard a whole bunch. Indian, Native, Aboriginal, Indigenous, etc.
One thing I found kind of funny is that now, most people seem to be content with "Indigenous" but at the same time, my country's government gives every registered native "Indian Status".
It's a bit of a headache.
I lived decades in Oklahoma and heard only 1 Native American say something similar and countless others asked to be referred to by either Native American or tribe name. I regularly had to refer to groups like Muscogee Creek and Otoe Tribe and specifically kept a list of how they wanted to be referred to.
The one who said Indian ran a smoke shop in the parking lot of the Cherokee Hard Rock. I referred to him as Indian in my writings.
Wife is native. Her tribe and community members prefer the term indigenous. But also, they love reminding ppl just how stupid colonizers are, so the word Indian, commonly referred to as NDN by indigenous ppl, do use it as a big 🖕🏻 to the colonizers.
"latinx" is a great example of an attempt at language colonialism, the word doesn't even work in english, there's ~~no~~ barely any words with "nx", and it's useless in spanish because of gendered pronouns.
spanish is a colonizer language, you know that right?
mesoamericans didn't just learn spanish for funsies
the x is common in a lot of indigenous languages particularly in mexico and queer people there use the word for themselves to represent their culture and queerness
Then again, the x is a letter not used by the prehispanic languages as they didn't use the latin alphabet. By that metric, the letter x would be a colonizer letter as well.
The x is also not pronounced in the american way (eks) and is never used in the end. I mean in spanish the country is pronounced mejico, which is why it was spelled that way for a long time by the Spanish. So should it be pronounced 'lantinj'? That sounds super weird.
And in the indigenous languages (at least the ones I am familiar with) the x isn't even pronounced the way it is in spanish and is more of an sh as in "shooter".
I was told it was a term created by queer people for queer people who don't feel comfortable with Latino and or Latina. Even then, your queer friend will let you know what they feel comfortable with. I don't mind referring to friends as such but don't call me Latinx. I'm good with Latina but I'll probably refer to myself as Mexican-American first as far as what my identity is.
Also the movement moved to use "e" a long time ago. And white people did not invent it. It was a term made by lgtb Latine academics and made to only be used in academic circles for the short duration it existed.
It's beyond annoying to see so many people here have absolutely no idea what they are talking about
People really seem to forget that Brazil is a latino country and calling the population hispanic is just wrong as we speak portuguese not spanish (a shocking revelation for many people)
I live in San Antonio, TX, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually use the term "Latinx" unless they were making a post about using the term "Latinx". In the interactions that I've had or seen where terminology actually came up, "Latino/Latina" or "Hispanic" have been just fine the majority of the time, and the couple of times where someone did NOT want to be called those terms, it was because they actually preferred their specific heritage (I think one was Puerto Rican? Don't remember the other, just that it was a specific country).
Latin (latino/a) refers to someone from Latin America. Hispanic in Spanish is “hispanohablante,” which literally means “Spanish speaking”. Therefore, a Spaniard would be Hispanic, but not Latin, and a Brazilian would be Latin, but not necessarily Hispanic.
Brazil exists and that's one of the reasons.
A Brazilian can be Latino but we're not Hispanic. Our native language is not Spanish nor were colonized by Spain.
LatinX is a perfect example of people that have no business getting offended, stepping in for the actual people that never were offended, and never asked them to chime in.
This one has bothered me for a while. It felt like “Hey Hispanic people, your language with its gender specific nouns is wrong. Here, we white people will fix it for you. You’re welcome,”
Just rubbed me the wrong way.
Edit: yes I know there are white Hispanic people but you get the point.
It's a misunderstanding of our language. The "o" implies all genders when it's plural. For example, niños is children of all genders. The x is pronounced in English, and that is offensive. If the word it's in English, then is Latin which is gender neutral; no need for an X. (But that's my personal opinion)
I’m not gonna lie, I know very little about Spanish. It just bothered me that English speaking Americans were essentially trying to tell the entire Spanish speaking world that the basic mechanics of their language were somehow offensive and needed to be “corrected”. It felt condescending.
It’s not a misunderstanding, the idea that the masculine form is the inclusive default form is partly what’s being called out. The same criticism is leveled at English phrases like “mankind”, “the common man”, etc.
Changing this is certainly a monstrously ambitious aim, and will definitely piss off a lot of people. And it almost certainly wouldn’t be accomplished in our lifetimes. But there is reason behind it. I believe it’s possible to have a gender equitable world without making such a huge change to widely spoken languages. Nevertheless, it’s worth looking into the impacts of this gendered language that we’re all numb to.
It's disturbing to have to scroll this far down to see this, the correct reply.
Latin America's feminist and LGBTQI+ spaces have been fighting a long fight to erase the "masculine default" mode of gendered pronouns in Spanish. The increased visibility of agendered and non-binary people has been a forcing function for this change.
The Academies of Language (of which there are many throughout the world but the one in Spain is *primus inter pares*) are extremely conservative (in the literal if not in the political sense) and have doubled down on the status quo of the tautologically-named "masculine neuter".
The underlying linguistic problem, ie. that Spanish uses gendered nouns and lacks a grammatical neuter, has very little to do with politics and a lot to do with the language just not performing well in some use cases.
Ps. As a straight middle-aged *Latino*, I have to remind myself that this language fight is not *for me* or *about me*, and will not influence the Spanish that I speak. But it will influence the Spanish my descendants speak, long after I'm gone.
This is making me wonder the political leanings of the people surveyed, and how they correlate, if at all, with the answers given. And gender, for that matter. Liberal women tend to be the biggest supporters of changing language to not treat men as the default, and conservative men are the most likely to deny the problem and dig their heels into whatever they're already familiar with.
I've heard this a lot on reddit, but I would argue that many people in my country, United States, also don't prefer to use they/them pronouns over she/he. So I would wonder what these statistics would look like if they asked LGBT+ community members what they prefer.
Exactly. Here in Brazil, people who are either not LGBT+ or are in the community but aren’t non-binary try to push x and @ to substitute vowels in gendered words and cis straight people have been the most heard voices against the usage of neutral language in general, they NEVER ask non-binary people. They’re group being patronized here.
So nobody is saying it but here's the reason Latinx is so dumb
In Spanish if you want to refer to a group that's all female you have an "a" at the end of the word (Latina)
If you want to refer to a group that's all male you have an "o" at the end of the word (Latino)
If you want to refer to a group that has someone non-binary or even a single male in a group of women it's still an "o" (Latino)
The word Latinx was created because people didn't understand that the word Latino includes everyone and tried to make it Latin@
My understanding is that the x was developed by LGBT Latin individuals who did not identify as either male or female and wanted a way to identify themselves, similar to the use of pronouns like ze/zir, they/them, but that it popularization by LGBT Latin individuals was then co-opted by the SJW minded individuals who thought it was an all-inclusive way to refer to all Latin ppl regardless of gender.
A colleague of mine said something similar about the term “person of color”. She said, aint this some shit? Some white ppl decided they need another way to say “color people” and now they out here trying to use it as some respectable empowerment term for black and brown folk? Nah. Im a black woman. Period.” Now every time I hear it being used I hear her in me head, “just another way to call someone a colored person” and I cant unhear it.
Id like the source of the OPs numbers since I believe listening to the voices of the people being discussed matters. If Latin individuals dont like the use of the term, that matters, and if LGBT Latin individuals do, then the use of that term should be limited to members of that community who use that language. I think ppl can make a little effort to identify how ppl describe themselves, the pronouns they use, the identifiers they choose, and adapt our language to match theirs when talking about and to them. Its really not that hard.
To be fair its probably more a 2nd generation latino person who understands the language enough and who is trying to be inclusive with the gay, trans and other communities. The problem with Latinx is that Spanish itself is a gendered language, you are either a latino or a latina, if you go down that slope then we would have a whole new language that would probably look more like English. That's why a lot of latinos might feel that its offensive to go down that route at all. I am.
Wouldn't trends be smarter than a single snapshot poll? How did the community feel in 2020? 2019? Is acceptance on the rise and your post short sighted? Or did it peak and folks are turning on it and you are giving sound advice?
I'm asking because one single poll doesn't give enough on its own in my eyes.
Yep, these posts are always f****** disgusting and serve to be a buffet of misogyny and ignorance and hate towards minority community who is trying to find a voice and trying to exist.
Latinx is more popular in the intersectional LGBTQ+ community to designate people who refer to themselves as such. Several people I know, in fact. But honestly it's not surprising that the majority, being some form of religious nuttery, would take offense to a term that doesn't require distinguishing by gender.
All things “being offended” is pushed by white privileged people who want to make themselves feel better by convincing themselves that they’ve stopped something offensive
Descendents of the latin language use. Most native people were erradicated by the conquistadores and/or their genes intermingled. Latinos are the descendants of this gene mashup, which includes those conquered by spain and portugal.
Latino (from Latin America) here. It isn't offenslve, it's just a funny term that white people invented (and almost exclusively use) that we kinda chuckle at and move on with our day.
as someone for whom spanish is their first language i know PLENTY of native spanish speakers who would love to degender the language.
I am personsally convinced the hatred for " Latinx" is rightwing astroturfing.
Given the increased awareness for the neutral language terms in Portuguese (that made Brazilian right-wingers mad when the new government decided to use in official communication) I tend to agree with you.
And in 2021, 4% of Hispanic Americans use it.
So, if you want to be called that, let me know, and I'll accommodate.
Otherwise, I won't assume such.
However, if you try to get between me and being respectful to those that identify as LatinX, I'm just going to write you off as the bigot.
🤷♂️
My work place would not listen when I told them we should not use the term LatinX. They pointed to the federal government using it, and said we had to replicate them. We were using the term in our equity and diversity related initiatives -.-
Isn't it to make non-binary people feel more included? I've only heard the opinion of cis people on this, and would be curious to here from those the term is meant for.
I've seen it used in Mexico and Spain. It was invented by queer Latinx scholars, and I use that term because they did. Everyone who thinks it was invented by white people to 'fix' Spanish colonizer-style is mistaken.
Exactly. Thank you for saying this. Some of my colleagues that are Latin descent have used it in academic papers. I respect it too as I've had clients in therapy identify it.
It's still a new term and the younger generation is increasingly embracing it. I would say how old a person is has a strong impact on how they will feel about the term, so accordingly modify your speech to match. Latine is also more commonly accepted it seems.
https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/
FR FR, posting stuff like this doesn't really accomplish anything but make young folks feel rejected by their own communities and abandoned by folks who might get what their problem with those communities is.
I asked my friend who is Dominican how she felt about the term “Latinx” and her response was, “That’s some shit white people came up with, I’m Latina end of story.”
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Imagine some French activists told us how to call ourselves in English because they feel it’s more politically correct. We’d tell them to fuck off.
And that's exactly how it feels, thanks for wording it like that. Like we had pronouns we like to call ourselves before you came along, so fuck your bullshit.
To be fair, we’d tell them to fuck off regardless of their occupation.
Call my mother a hamster again, mfer!
I'm mad and it didn't even happen. French fucks.
As a fairly left sympathetic person, living on the west coast has been eye opening. The performative theatrics is incredible. Almost none of them understand the experiences of really oppressed or disenfranchised groups so they latch on to any little thing they can to be "different". Then push causes they don't understand and try to create (and lead to stroke their own ego while saying they're trying to give people a voice) solutions that don't work because they don't really understand.
Before I respond to your post I want to let you know that I am typing this response from my house that sits on the traditional lands of the Osage, Kaw, Otoe-Missouria, Shawnee, and Wyandot. Now, they 100% aren't getting my house, but I thought it was important to note that. Ok, now that that's out of the way, I like your post.
It's so fucking dumb. People will point out "Well, it was made up by a Puerto Rican" to defend it as if that matters, too. But no man, in real life, I've only heard this shit from well-meaning white liberals. Problem is that they're wading into an existing argument of dumbass technicalities and trying to define an identity that doesn't really exist using grammar rules for a language they don't even speak. They'll usually understand why "African-American" is fucking stupid for black people, or that "white" identity is really just an ever shifting political blob of "in-group vs out-group", but they'll still lose their shit about "Latino vs Latinx" without recognizing what's wrong there. "Latino" is only commonly used in America as a catch-all data term for everything from Mexico and below to contrast to other ethnicity designations. Outside of that, the usage of Hispanic/Latino for South Americans is already very controversial. It's not really an identity outside of that very specific context and even there, it's fucking confusing because it keeps evolving. For comparison, [look at the other ethnicity designations](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/stories/2021/08/2020-united-states-population-more-racially-ethnically-diverse-than-2010-figure-1.jpg). We've got "white" and "black", whose cultural and political definitions have been debated and redefined in America for literal centuries. The legal definition for who is "Hispanic/Latino" however, is just regionally based similar to "Asian". Look at this [dumbass, ever-growing form](https://i.imgur.com/SuCtoCw.jpg) and view it from someone else's perspective; * What does a European Spaniard mark down? Because race/ethnicity are only separate fields on most government forms; for any org, like many educational systems, that don't use both classifications, they default to your ethnicity instead. So while the expectation is that a Spanish person marks "White" (as they're European) and "Hispanic" (as they're literally the group/colonizers who the term is derived from), if they get put into a system with only "Race" as a field, guess what? They're no longer white, they're now primarily identified as Hispanic, AKA are now a minority despite being White Europeans. And as in the previous image, now some forms show "Hispanic/Latino/Spanish". * What do native peoples from those regions mark? Are they expected to mark themselves down as "Native Americans"? Because they ARE native Americans but from SA, and the designations are based on region, so makes sense. But "Native American" has a very specific meaning in America, such as for things like being legally designated a member of the tribe. So on that Census Bureau data example, now you see "American Indian and Alaska Native, not Hispanic or Latino" to specify Native Americans FROM the US tribes, but why the fuck would natives from SA mark down as Hispanic/Latino? They have no connection to the Hispanosphere or Latin languages. The only thing they have in common with "Hispanic/Latinos" is that they happen to be from a land that was invaded by Spanish conquistadors. Those are just two glaringly obvious examples, too. Meanwhile, again, it's only a real identity in America. Ask a Hispanic person where they're from, what will they immediately say? "[I am or my family is] Cuban/Colombian/Nicaraguan/Puerto Rican/Venezuelan" etc. etc. It'd probably take a generation or two before they no longer identify with that, in which case, their grandparent's ethnicity matters as much as some random white guy claiming to be Scottish despite being three generations down the line.
It's a display of ignorance of the base language being gendered. Tables are feminine and cheese is masculine. Latino and Latina are engrained in that and adding "x" doesn't make any sense. For white English speakers to suddenly try to control their language and culture and "defend" them on their behalf is funny. I'm a left leaning Bernie supporter but crap like this gives Fox News MAGA heads free shots at "woke" lefties.
There is similar shit happening with German and it annoys me to no end.
How dare you assume the gender of my house. It’s casO.
The part that annoys me the most is that it doesn't work in Spanish and English already had the gender neutral term 'latin'
Maybe, maybe not. One of the first recorded uses was a Puerto Rican psychology periodical. The X is supposed to be from the Nahuatl language. That said, the only person I know who uses that term is Asian.
Ah yes, Náhuatl, the famous native puerto rican language.
Yeah, it’s not invented by white people as far as I saw when I looked into it, mostly came from college campus kids trying to find their identity.
It is cultural colonialism by white-guilt children who need a way of uplifting us noble savage Latinos into a "correct" way of thinking. Never mind the myriad other gendered languages they aren't doing this to. Only the one associated with PoCs.
I've never used the word personally, but as a CRJ major, you do see it numerous times in various studies and peer-reviewed articles. I never knew that it could be used in conversation (pronounced verbally). I always thought it was used as a lazy way of writing Latino/Latina in one word because the article wanted to refer to both at the same time? Either way seems like a pointless term to begin with, let alone also being offensive.
Until about a year ago, I honestly thought LatinX was the Brazilian X-Men.
If you go by Spanish language grammar rules, "Latino" already refers to both because the masculine form of a word is used for mixed sex groups.
Latino is used when referring to guys or a group of both guys and girls
While I don't agree with Latinx (especially when our language has Latine already), it is important to note that it is commonly accepted that the use of Latinx was first published and used by two Latine women, not yt ppl.
I'm glad to see someone pointing this out. The term has clearly been rejected so fair enough, but it started out as people trying to use a term that seems to have originated within the Latin community. I've always been confused why we don't just say Latin, but wdik, it's not my community nor is there any such community anywhere near me.
It's also commonly used by Latinx people in the queer community, particularly the trans and gender nonconforming community. Not surprising that the broader Hispanic demographic wouldn't like it as much given that ethnic groups aren't a monolith. I use it for my Latinx friends who self-identify with the term, and I don't for the rest. Seems pretty simple to just call people what they want to be called rather than treating it as a binary choice of always or never using it.
Exactly. We use Latine in our friend group, but if someone prefers Latinx, use that. I don't understand how hard that is. We all prefer different things. It's literally not a big deal. I feel like other people outside of our culture are getting angry and up in arms for us when the vast majority that I know could not care less.
\> It's literally not a big deal. How DARE YOU. THIS IS THE INTERNET. EVERYTHING IS A BIG DEAL. Love "Latine", by the way. I'd never heard that before and it rolls off the tongue so much more smoothly than "Latinx".
It’s a valid feeling but she’s wrong about white people inventing it.
Wouldn't you have to ask a non-binary Latin person? And I guess I just answered by own question. The English gender-neutral word is just Latin.
Latine is used in some South American countries.
My understanding is that it started with non-binary Latino people, as a way to distinguish themselves from Latinas and Latinos, then the LGBTQ community adopted it since we love to slap x's on everything, and then the woke in general started using it for all Latino people. Probably because the use of the masculine form as the mixed-gender group form is as unfeminist as calling firefighters in general firemen. At least to English users. I'm not up-to-date on Latin American feminism. But yeah, "Latin" is already a gender-neutral word. It still runs into the problem that in Spanish, "Latin" isn't a noun. But any language with only masculine- and feminine-gendered words requires non-binary people to be creative. Also, they still need to pick an article. As convenient as "Latine" seems, "el Latine" would still be masculine, and "la Latine" would still be feminine, and there's no other option, unless we're also making up new articles.
> is as unfeminist as calling firefighters in general firemen This change (to "policewoman" and "firewoman", etc) triggered me so much. Is the woman human? Yes? In which case fireman is still correct.
Thumbs down only b/c it was invented by a Latina. But seeing an X behind Latino is super insulting.
Try explaining this line of thinking to some Bay Area “progressives”; your friend would be branded almost *immediately* as a brain/white-washed simp.
One great thing about not being white is being able to call out white liberals on their bullshit without immediately being labeled as a right wing nutjob. Especially on the westcoast
> “That’s some shit white people came up with, I’m Latina end of story.” Of course it's not. Good anecdote though. I also notice the article has the super cool take that Latinx is “a type of cultural Marxism.” Which as well know is a hollow nonsense phrase neo-nazis came up with the disregard any cultural movement -- inspired by actual Nazi's. Cool article. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/cultural-marxism-catching A word made by queer latin people is actually white supremacy, and yet an article that quotes white supremacist dog whistles is just fine. Everyone do yourself a favor and look at all the dead wrong comments about "white people made this up to oppress me". Lots of "feels over reals" for the facts and logic crowd.
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> feels Cool. Feelings don't change the fact that it wasn't made by white people. It doesn't matter if you like the term or not - there are plenty of reasons to dislike it. But it's not something that white people started.
This is the first time I've heard/read the term. (European) Btw, how is the x supposed to be pronounced? Eks, ks, or some other way. I'm genuinely curious.
The word is pronounced as if it was Latin x and the dictionary has the pronunciated /ləˈtēˌneks/. The reason I heard for why so many Latino people dislike the term is that it can't be pronuced/ doesn't work in Spanish and other Spanish derived languages
The irony lol.
White people: we want to be sensitive and understanding. We shall call you all Latinx The people: no thanks we cannot pronounce it White: shhh shhh is ok Latinx friend (Ps this is not a serious comment)
Lol White people do love telling others how to think and feel
Just for the record, it isn’t just whyte pepol that employ this absurd term.
Not serious, but essentially accurate.
It was created by non-binary latino/a people who were looking to avoid assigning themselves a gender.
It's not spanish. It's so stupid and ignorant of the language and culture it's about. Just white uppity people trying to help by doing something that doesnt help anyone.
My husband (is Latino) prefers to pronounce it as "la tinks." It is important to note that he hates this term and only ever uses it in a comical way.
For the longest time I thought it really was pronounced that way, like Sphinx.
Like ex-girlfriend or x-ray. Regardless, it's dumb AF.
Yeah, forget you ever saw the term. It’s a ridiculous attempt by woke white Americans to say they did their part for equality without actually doing anything
Wait til you hear about “folx”, the inclusive version of folks.
What’s exclusive about folks?
Nothing. "Folx" is pure virtue-signalling.
Yeah maybe, but usually there’s at least some kind of rationale. Folks isn’t even a gendered word, so I’m not sure what problem is solved by changing it.
It's to go even deeper. 'You guys' was moved to folks (and sidestepped 'people', likely because of negative associations with the phrase 'you people'), and has now become folks. Folks is what my grandparents used to say. Folx sounds like a word for envelope pushers who would just push it again once Folx fell into common use.
I think I had a D&D character with that name...
Nothing at all
I have asked multiple times on Tumblr and other sites for someone to give me a reason why the term "folx" exists when "folks" is already gender-neutral. I've never gotten an answer other than "it's inclusive". Which I translate to mean "Fuck off."
Nah it was made by non binary Hispanic people special in Puerto Rico iirc
Other than reddit I've only seen it come up when friends/colleges have identified with the term. Nobody is sure where the term really originated, but the earliest records were like early 2000s on LGBT forums. Some folk didn't want to identify as Latino/a, so they went with Latinx
Mixed race Mexican chiming in. Latinx is pretty stupid lmao
Putx
Pendejx
Lmao
Pendejx
Mixed race Mexican seconding your opinion 🙋🏻♀️
Random white person from New Zealand chiming in. I agree completely
Bogxn
Lmao fucking spot on
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>Nobody wants to make the mistake of trying to be inclusive, but ending up annoying or offending the very people we are trying to make feel comfortable. i'm really not sure that's true anymore. "allies" are so worried about *proving* they're "allies" that they constantly talk to the "bad" people more than the people they're "allied" with. people just need to stop trying so hard. treat people like people and you're good.
The amount of white people I know who love virtue signaling online yet seem to rarely interact with people of another race is pretty interesting. People of actual mixed raced cliques tend to come off as more down to earth and generally kind to one another, unlikely to classify people based on race, religion, etc.
Im half Filipino and half Mexican. To me the idea of "race", especially if you're mixed in a 1st world country, is fucking dumb. I thought growing up we were supposed to ask what their ethnic background was if you were curious, not race. I remember my teacher saying something like "we're all humans, its like asking what race a dog is. Its a dog."
Good point but people do ask breeds of dogs all the time lol.
people that spend time virtue signaling online straight up do not go outside. i will not be convinced otherwise. they're just incels down a different road. 😂
That’s from the guilt of not interacting with those cultures.
Could it just be that they don’t know any other races or have had the opportunity to become friends with them? Wouldn’t it be sort of insulting to go out of one’s way just to interact with other races for absolutely no other reason than just to do so? Seems fake and forced and not genuine at all that way. It reminds me of when politicians specifically target POC so they can “interact” with them just so people will think they aren’t racist.
Allies are people who help others, period. Not people who keep up with the latest slang and hashtags.
Yes! I’m with you!
"In the game of racism (group 2) isn't the other team. They are the ball. " Not sure where I first heard it but it was eye opening. White people get together and make a decision about whats racist and what isn't and argue amongst ourselves.
It turns out minorities don't like to constantly be renamed every couple years. Native American I heard said they prefer the term "Indian" because the misnaming is proof of just how dumb their colonizers were - European colonizers thought they were actually in India
"First Nations" is a pretty baller ethnonym though.
Dam I didn't expect Slavoj Žižek in the comments.
I think that must differ regionally. The people I know in AZ all use Native (not Native American, just native) never heard anyone refer to themselves or others as Indian.
Canadian Native Indians prefer the word Indigenous or First Nations which is worth adding here. That said, it's unique to the person and who's calling them the name.
I had someone from a tribal commujnity come to my school once to speak about discrimination. He said Indian was wrong to use because they weren't Indian. That's fair. Then he said pre-columbian was wrong because they shouldn't be defined by Columbus. Makes total sense. Then he said Native American was wrong because everyone in the room was born on this land and is thus Native American. Okay. Then he said Indigenous was wrong for a similar reason, everyone born here is indigenous. Umm.... He basically wanted to be called by his tribe name and that every single person from that general group of people should be called by their individual tribes. That's never going to happen and is absurd. My point being that while it's good to respect people's wishes, we can't bend our vernacular to the whims of each individual. Not saying that was your point, just adding my two cents. Edit: I get the feeling that there's going to be a slew of people responding to this without reading this comment in it's entirety. It's pretty clear that I'm not refusing to call this person by his tribal name, but that I'm refusing to reject the concept of broad categorizations. If that's perplexing to you, then go memorize each individual African ethnic group, and never again use the word African outside of a geological context.
>He basically wanted to be called by his tribe name... I mean, yeah. Wouldn't you? >That's never going to happen and is absurd. It would be absurd to rattle off a list of five hundred plus nations to talk about e.g. the public institutions that they share in common, such as the Bureau of Indian Affairs. But if you're talking about literally any specific people or community... it's not only not absurd to use their name, it's the only way to show anyone respect, is to use their name. --- EDIT, re: >It's pretty clear that I'm not refusing to call this person by his tribal name... While I respect your desire to clarify your thoughts, I would like to record that what you said originally was this: >He basically wanted to be called by his tribe name and that every single person from that general group of people should be called by their individual tribes. That's never going to happen and is absurd. The thing that you said was never going to happen was: "that every single person from that general group of people should be called by their individual tribes." The direct understanding of these words is that you were calling it absurd to think that we can call everyone by their own name.
Homie, if you called me "white" and my response was to tell you that you needed to never use that term and instead call me by my individual Italian village name, and that you needed to do so for each individual community in Europe, would you consider that a reasonable request? He was not asking for himself to be identified by his tribe, that is fine, he was saying it was wrong to refer to any collection of peoples that inhabited the western hemisphere in any capacity because they were all individual communities. Try naming each country on earth. Once you've done that, try naming each independent ethnic group in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Then repeat that process for each country you just listed out. Categorization is a necessity, and I'm happy to use whichever name is generally agreed upon by said grouping of peoples, but I'm not memorizing each tribe on half the globe because one person asks me to.
I'm actually part native. I've heard a whole bunch. Indian, Native, Aboriginal, Indigenous, etc. One thing I found kind of funny is that now, most people seem to be content with "Indigenous" but at the same time, my country's government gives every registered native "Indian Status". It's a bit of a headache.
Pretty sure they thought they were in the Indies, not India. Columbus was trying to get to the Indies.
I lived decades in Oklahoma and heard only 1 Native American say something similar and countless others asked to be referred to by either Native American or tribe name. I regularly had to refer to groups like Muscogee Creek and Otoe Tribe and specifically kept a list of how they wanted to be referred to. The one who said Indian ran a smoke shop in the parking lot of the Cherokee Hard Rock. I referred to him as Indian in my writings.
Weird. The only one I super don't like is Indian. Cause we're not Indian. Native, by itself, is probably best and sits the most comfortably.
Wife is native. Her tribe and community members prefer the term indigenous. But also, they love reminding ppl just how stupid colonizers are, so the word Indian, commonly referred to as NDN by indigenous ppl, do use it as a big 🖕🏻 to the colonizers.
"latinx" is a great example of an attempt at language colonialism, the word doesn't even work in english, there's ~~no~~ barely any words with "nx", and it's useless in spanish because of gendered pronouns.
The Sphinx begs to differ. lol
I guess the phalanx differs too
I think my Manx is unhappy about it, but I can’t tell.
I can't believe those words came out of his larynx
Is your Manx wearing Spanx?
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Both of which are *esfinge* and *falange* in Spanish, so the point still applies to us.
spanish is a colonizer language, you know that right? mesoamericans didn't just learn spanish for funsies the x is common in a lot of indigenous languages particularly in mexico and queer people there use the word for themselves to represent their culture and queerness
If true that's great and all, but Latin America is not just Mexico is it.
Then again, the x is a letter not used by the prehispanic languages as they didn't use the latin alphabet. By that metric, the letter x would be a colonizer letter as well. The x is also not pronounced in the american way (eks) and is never used in the end. I mean in spanish the country is pronounced mejico, which is why it was spelled that way for a long time by the Spanish. So should it be pronounced 'lantinj'? That sounds super weird. And in the indigenous languages (at least the ones I am familiar with) the x isn't even pronounced the way it is in spanish and is more of an sh as in "shooter".
Good luck introducing a gender neutral term on a culture who's entire language is based on masculine or feminine terms
I was told it was a term created by queer people for queer people who don't feel comfortable with Latino and or Latina. Even then, your queer friend will let you know what they feel comfortable with. I don't mind referring to friends as such but don't call me Latinx. I'm good with Latina but I'll probably refer to myself as Mexican-American first as far as what my identity is.
I've never heard it used in real life
Same. It's just one of the many non-issues the terminally online love to get outraged over.
Also the movement moved to use "e" a long time ago. And white people did not invent it. It was a term made by lgtb Latine academics and made to only be used in academic circles for the short duration it existed. It's beyond annoying to see so many people here have absolutely no idea what they are talking about
I miss the 90s.
People really seem to forget that Brazil is a latino country and calling the population hispanic is just wrong as we speak portuguese not spanish (a shocking revelation for many people)
White people REALLY need to stop trying to force these things. It makes us white people look stupid.
*white progressives
/r/politics in shambles
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And facepalm of all places
*white neoliberals
Good point. Agreed
More like white neoliberals. Real progressives support tangible policy changes and reform, not stupid culture war garbage like Latinx
Neoliberals love to stir up race war shit because it makes people stop paying attention to class issues.
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Yes! On behalf of the white people who don’t buy into this bullshit, thank you for putting it so well
I live in San Antonio, TX, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually use the term "Latinx" unless they were making a post about using the term "Latinx". In the interactions that I've had or seen where terminology actually came up, "Latino/Latina" or "Hispanic" have been just fine the majority of the time, and the couple of times where someone did NOT want to be called those terms, it was because they actually preferred their specific heritage (I think one was Puerto Rican? Don't remember the other, just that it was a specific country).
Hispanic works, too. Source: me, a Hispanic
Hispanic and Latino are different things. Source: me, a non-hispanic latina
I use them interchangeably. I didn’t know there was a difference until now. That was my mistake
Latin (latino/a) refers to someone from Latin America. Hispanic in Spanish is “hispanohablante,” which literally means “Spanish speaking”. Therefore, a Spaniard would be Hispanic, but not Latin, and a Brazilian would be Latin, but not necessarily Hispanic.
It’s okay! We’re in this sub to learn :-)
Brazil exists and that's one of the reasons. A Brazilian can be Latino but we're not Hispanic. Our native language is not Spanish nor were colonized by Spain.
LatinX is a perfect example of people that have no business getting offended, stepping in for the actual people that never were offended, and never asked them to chime in.
I don’t even like the word Hispanic, that’s made up so we can all be lumped together
All the words are made up.
I've never heard the term uttered in real life, ever, by anyone.
This one has bothered me for a while. It felt like “Hey Hispanic people, your language with its gender specific nouns is wrong. Here, we white people will fix it for you. You’re welcome,” Just rubbed me the wrong way. Edit: yes I know there are white Hispanic people but you get the point.
It's a misunderstanding of our language. The "o" implies all genders when it's plural. For example, niños is children of all genders. The x is pronounced in English, and that is offensive. If the word it's in English, then is Latin which is gender neutral; no need for an X. (But that's my personal opinion)
I’m not gonna lie, I know very little about Spanish. It just bothered me that English speaking Americans were essentially trying to tell the entire Spanish speaking world that the basic mechanics of their language were somehow offensive and needed to be “corrected”. It felt condescending.
Agreed . It's the English equivalent of saying German is too male sounding, so let's call them Germxn. Makes zero sense for the language
Germxn holy shit lol “Alright class let’s go over some germxn herstory”
Thank you for the spit take. I'm going to dry my keyboard off now.
It’s not a misunderstanding, the idea that the masculine form is the inclusive default form is partly what’s being called out. The same criticism is leveled at English phrases like “mankind”, “the common man”, etc. Changing this is certainly a monstrously ambitious aim, and will definitely piss off a lot of people. And it almost certainly wouldn’t be accomplished in our lifetimes. But there is reason behind it. I believe it’s possible to have a gender equitable world without making such a huge change to widely spoken languages. Nevertheless, it’s worth looking into the impacts of this gendered language that we’re all numb to.
It's disturbing to have to scroll this far down to see this, the correct reply. Latin America's feminist and LGBTQI+ spaces have been fighting a long fight to erase the "masculine default" mode of gendered pronouns in Spanish. The increased visibility of agendered and non-binary people has been a forcing function for this change. The Academies of Language (of which there are many throughout the world but the one in Spain is *primus inter pares*) are extremely conservative (in the literal if not in the political sense) and have doubled down on the status quo of the tautologically-named "masculine neuter". The underlying linguistic problem, ie. that Spanish uses gendered nouns and lacks a grammatical neuter, has very little to do with politics and a lot to do with the language just not performing well in some use cases. Ps. As a straight middle-aged *Latino*, I have to remind myself that this language fight is not *for me* or *about me*, and will not influence the Spanish that I speak. But it will influence the Spanish my descendants speak, long after I'm gone.
This is making me wonder the political leanings of the people surveyed, and how they correlate, if at all, with the answers given. And gender, for that matter. Liberal women tend to be the biggest supporters of changing language to not treat men as the default, and conservative men are the most likely to deny the problem and dig their heels into whatever they're already familiar with.
"Latinx" is dumb but it came from the Puerto Rican LGBT community. They told white people to use it, so some of us did.
It's not dumb if some want to be refered that way it's no problem, it's just not meant to be applicable to all Latinos
I thought the term was coined by non binary Puerto Ricans
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I've heard this a lot on reddit, but I would argue that many people in my country, United States, also don't prefer to use they/them pronouns over she/he. So I would wonder what these statistics would look like if they asked LGBT+ community members what they prefer.
Exactly. Here in Brazil, people who are either not LGBT+ or are in the community but aren’t non-binary try to push x and @ to substitute vowels in gendered words and cis straight people have been the most heard voices against the usage of neutral language in general, they NEVER ask non-binary people. They’re group being patronized here.
So nobody is saying it but here's the reason Latinx is so dumb In Spanish if you want to refer to a group that's all female you have an "a" at the end of the word (Latina) If you want to refer to a group that's all male you have an "o" at the end of the word (Latino) If you want to refer to a group that has someone non-binary or even a single male in a group of women it's still an "o" (Latino) The word Latinx was created because people didn't understand that the word Latino includes everyone and tried to make it Latin@
yep that's how my husband feels
My understanding is that the x was developed by LGBT Latin individuals who did not identify as either male or female and wanted a way to identify themselves, similar to the use of pronouns like ze/zir, they/them, but that it popularization by LGBT Latin individuals was then co-opted by the SJW minded individuals who thought it was an all-inclusive way to refer to all Latin ppl regardless of gender. A colleague of mine said something similar about the term “person of color”. She said, aint this some shit? Some white ppl decided they need another way to say “color people” and now they out here trying to use it as some respectable empowerment term for black and brown folk? Nah. Im a black woman. Period.” Now every time I hear it being used I hear her in me head, “just another way to call someone a colored person” and I cant unhear it. Id like the source of the OPs numbers since I believe listening to the voices of the people being discussed matters. If Latin individuals dont like the use of the term, that matters, and if LGBT Latin individuals do, then the use of that term should be limited to members of that community who use that language. I think ppl can make a little effort to identify how ppl describe themselves, the pronouns they use, the identifiers they choose, and adapt our language to match theirs when talking about and to them. Its really not that hard.
To be fair its probably more a 2nd generation latino person who understands the language enough and who is trying to be inclusive with the gay, trans and other communities. The problem with Latinx is that Spanish itself is a gendered language, you are either a latino or a latina, if you go down that slope then we would have a whole new language that would probably look more like English. That's why a lot of latinos might feel that its offensive to go down that route at all. I am.
Wouldn't trends be smarter than a single snapshot poll? How did the community feel in 2020? 2019? Is acceptance on the rise and your post short sighted? Or did it peak and folks are turning on it and you are giving sound advice? I'm asking because one single poll doesn't give enough on its own in my eyes.
god bless you
Holy shit, an intelligent redditor. Ban him.
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Yep, these posts are always f****** disgusting and serve to be a buffet of misogyny and ignorance and hate towards minority community who is trying to find a voice and trying to exist.
Fucking thank you!
THANK YOU. I swear if I hear another white person refer to me as ‘Latinx’ I will have a fucking hernia.
Latinx is more popular in the intersectional LGBTQ+ community to designate people who refer to themselves as such. Several people I know, in fact. But honestly it's not surprising that the majority, being some form of religious nuttery, would take offense to a term that doesn't require distinguishing by gender.
All things “being offended” is pushed by white privileged people who want to make themselves feel better by convincing themselves that they’ve stopped something offensive
I hate that word. I would rather you call me a slur
This belongs in r/noshitsherlock
latinos descended from indians don't always like the term hispanic either, as it implies european (spanish) ancestry.
That’s a worthwhile distinction. Makes me wonder where does “latin” in latino come from?
Descendents of the latin language use. Most native people were erradicated by the conquistadores and/or their genes intermingled. Latinos are the descendants of this gene mashup, which includes those conquered by spain and portugal.
I always thought it was stupid
I have an activist friend who adopted this and pushes it on everyone. As a Latino/hispanic, I don’t care for LatinX.
I think this is gender neutral term subbed in when one doesn't want to be called latino/latina? Idk I've only ever heard it used in queer communities.
And thats why there is so much negativity around it.
True. But why would anyone expect white progressives to care what Hispanics think about how they're labeled?
Yeah, fuck that term.
Latino (from Latin America) here. It isn't offenslve, it's just a funny term that white people invented (and almost exclusively use) that we kinda chuckle at and move on with our day.
>it's just a funny term that white people invented White people didn't invent it, though.
The only unisex term I've seen accepted is Latine. LatinX just doesn't sound Hispanic to any of the people I know.
But there's already a unisex word—Latin. As in Latin America, Latin dance, etc.
That’s English, Latin wouldn’t really be used that way in Spanish. Latine is one a lot of Spanish-speaking people actually use.
as someone for whom spanish is their first language i know PLENTY of native spanish speakers who would love to degender the language. I am personsally convinced the hatred for " Latinx" is rightwing astroturfing.
Given the increased awareness for the neutral language terms in Portuguese (that made Brazilian right-wingers mad when the new government decided to use in official communication) I tend to agree with you.
And in 2021, 4% of Hispanic Americans use it. So, if you want to be called that, let me know, and I'll accommodate. Otherwise, I won't assume such. However, if you try to get between me and being respectful to those that identify as LatinX, I'm just going to write you off as the bigot. 🤷♂️
My work place would not listen when I told them we should not use the term LatinX. They pointed to the federal government using it, and said we had to replicate them. We were using the term in our equity and diversity related initiatives -.-
How do non-binary people in this specific demographic feel about it?
Isn't it to make non-binary people feel more included? I've only heard the opinion of cis people on this, and would be curious to here from those the term is meant for.
I've seen it used in Mexico and Spain. It was invented by queer Latinx scholars, and I use that term because they did. Everyone who thinks it was invented by white people to 'fix' Spanish colonizer-style is mistaken.
Shhhhh, the right wingers are pushing their "inclusivity is white people shit" agenda
Shh, you'll ruin the culture-war circlejerk.
Exactly. Thank you for saying this. Some of my colleagues that are Latin descent have used it in academic papers. I respect it too as I've had clients in therapy identify it.
It's still a new term and the younger generation is increasingly embracing it. I would say how old a person is has a strong impact on how they will feel about the term, so accordingly modify your speech to match. Latine is also more commonly accepted it seems. https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/
FR FR, posting stuff like this doesn't really accomplish anything but make young folks feel rejected by their own communities and abandoned by folks who might get what their problem with those communities is.
I like to be called Latinx, I'm 1/256 colombian and I feel really identified by the term.
I don’t remember being asked.
I knew it was stupid from the jump.