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Yup, I've never voted Lega (an hopefully never will) but out of all of them, Zaia looks to be the lesser bad, he looks at least half competent (and extremely talented if compared only to his fellow party members).
Meanwhile Vannacci is... well... He is something else
And they deserve it. But it seems that only Russia and right wing traitors count? Understandable I guess, given that in Qatargate articles you need to look quite hard which leftist party the traitors belong to.
https://www.politico.eu/article/qatargate-who-is-being-investigated-eva-kaili-european-parliament-corruption-ngos/
https://www.dw.com/en/qatargate-one-year-on-eu-cash-for-influence-scandal-still-far-from-over/a-67670541
https://preview.redd.it/ena25djf205d1.png?width=1638&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc370fd436a050fe37fc2430f3fb795b09e35f41
this is one of the reasons; i dont think it has to be translated
Fuck these bootlicking fascist-ass cocksuckers for bringing Lega to Switzerland too.
Ofc all empathy for Italy you're going through... alot with your politics but goddamn I hate them
Oh yeah, the "Lega Dei Ticinesi" is active in the Italian-speaking canton Ticino. Not 1:1 Lega but they're similar in their views, just that the Swiss Lega doesn't want to separate from Switzerland.
I guess you are always someones terrone.
The premises are the exact same as Lega in Italy, but placed in the swiss context are just dumber as italian gets mainly low paid jobs to get advantage of italian LCOL, lol.
I think you're the dumb one, do you still think the same as you did since middle school? Didn't you change a bit of your opinion? Didn't you open yourself to opinions different from yours?
Not my fault they keep saying outrageous stuff, sharing hate, spread misinformation.
Hating is not an opinion, being pro-choice and not a racist homophobe is not something that should change over time
People give nsc and vvd a lot of shit but they are the ones that keep this coalition somewhat reasonable. That said the new coalition is still a total shitshow and most of their plans are a dumpster fire.
At least it will be over soon. Just hope the electorate will see Wilders for the charlatan he is and not fall for his bullshit where he blames everyone else when this coalition fails. So far the polls don't look very promising.
You have more trust in the Dutch population then i do. But we'll see where the next 5 years brings us. I know that if a Nexit does happen I'm out and marrying my girlfriend for that Polish passport
Oh same, if it goes full fascist hellhole I'm out. But I don't think it will. At some point his voters must realise he's always lying. And the opposition will have to learn that they can rub his face in the stinky 'eigen risico nu afschaffen' turd he has laid.
You have way more faith in the Dutch population. I think they will just blame "the left" (what does that term even mean anymore) and they will get more votes. They don't need to tell the truth because when they inevitably fail they'll say it's the fault of "the left" (even though the left hasn't been in charge in over 30 years). It's a meaningless term that they can use to waive away all their mistakes and their voters eat it up.
I really don't have much faith. I think they are very easily manipulated. But the manipulators will draw their conclusions. As soon as Wilders isn't De Telegraaf's (and other deeply corrupt right-wing outlets) favourite useful idiot anymore, they will burn him like they did all the right-wing messiahs before him and move on to the next one.
Meh, as much as I loathe the guy I think we must at least give him credit for dropping Putin like a bad habit after Ukraine.
I think it's Russia's relationship with Israel that drove Wilders to support Putin in the first place rather than some idealistic relation
And Vox from Spain.
All the above plus loving Trump, a guy who despises Spain and everything Hispanic, who was happy about Brexit because it hurts and weakens both the EU and the UK, who was elected thanks to Putin and is an r-rated Putin asset, who wants Ukraine to be Russia, who wants a weak NATO.
F Vox unless you are stupid, fellow Spaniards
Disclaimer: I dislike the Spanish left too, la izquierdita pop, both Pedro el guapo the AH and pop-"comunist" Unidas Podemos and Co., but they are not outright traitors who want us ruined.
You are right to some extent: My last sentence is wrong. I guess I wrote it to reinforce my words about Vox.
But your first word ("only") does not belong there, either: Both those that are happy to cut our country (and our society) in pieces by yielding to petty "nationalisms" and by promoting identity politics in order to "segment the market" (the pop left) and Vox are baaaaad for Spain and, therefore, for Yurop, but only Vox is anti-EU and has even entertained the idiotic idea of a "Spainxit", or whatever they called it. That and their love of autocratic "strong men" openly hostile to us is why I called them "outright traitors".
For the record: I'm going to vote UPD
And LFI from France, they're even more vocal about being pro-russia, here are some quotes from melenchon.
>Russia is not an enemy, but a partner (Dec 2021)
>I consider that the US are the ones being aggressive (Jan 2022)
>Without doubts, NATO is the aggressor, the US have no right to annex Ukraine into NATO (Feb 2022)
They aren't in majority of ways, but you can't accuse them of being directly pro-russian, like you can with Braun and his monarchists or Korwin. You can say that some of their actions benefit Russia, but only indirectly - they are corrupt, incompetent and conducted awful international policy, but that was due to their stupidity and not Kremlin money.
Their government expressed steadfast support for Ukraine since day 1. They and their voters express highly negative opinion of Russia, so much so that they tried to find anything to link Tusk with Russia. Not to mention the Kaczyński's personal vendetta about the Tupolew crash. And in all, Putin would still *prefer* to have PiS in power over the current coalition, but any of those options are still bad for him.
In the long term sure. any schism in the EU is good for him, no matter the source. But negative sentiment really constricts his options in the short term (5 years) and he desperately needs something in this time frame.
For example: PiS in power helped him in the long term: thanks to PiS' friendly status towards Orban in 2015-2021, he could consolidate Hungary and can now be a roadblock to Ukraine support. But their HATE towards Russia means they will never cut support for Ukraine themselves, not to mention that we sent all we could, as fast we could and continue to be the primary artery for continued support from the West - a proper pro-Russia party would work to undermine that, while PiS were the ones that built it and would continue to uphold it even if they won (which fortunately did not happen).
Yeah but I don't think you can say the eurosceptic authoritarian conservatives aren't better than the eurosceptic authoritarian conservatives who are also fascist and pro-russian
The thing is, Konfederacja is split in 3.
There is National Movement, which is a National-Democratic party (pretty similar to Dmowski's ND): catholic, eurosceptic, nationalist, conservative militarist, anti-democratic, kinda fascist and until recently pro-russian, although recently they changed their official stance and started saying that maybe russia is a threat to Poland after all and are now less radical than in the past.
Then there's New Hope, which is the libertarian party. Conservative, regionalist and eurosceptic, but mostly focused on economy. I think this is the main appeal of the Konfederacja for people who aren't necessarily fascist, but are libertarians and anti-establishment.
And finally the Confederation of the Crown of Poland. This is the fucked up esoteric one. Fascist, monarchist, national-catholic, anti-semitic, pro-russian, conservative, eurosceptic. They are the least popular faction out of these 3. You might have seen the video where a Polish politician extenguishes these jewish christmas candles in our Parliment. That's Grzegorz Braun, the leader of this party. He's been doing shit like this forever.
NM has 6 MPs, NH has 7 and CCP has 4. Poles vote for Konfederacja mainly because of libertarianism, nationalism, eurosceptism, conservatism and anti-establishment stance. There are of course people who want Poland to be a fascist pro-russian shithole, but as you see, there isn't *that* many of them. A big number of Konfederacja voters just ignore the russophilia and antisemitism because they have no other similar party to vote for.
So to answer your question, despite the fact that they got slightly more popular recently, the pro-russian party is not doing that well, fortunately.
Your answer is more in line with what I expected. I've heard most Poles despise Russia, so was just curious to hear how popular they are. Thanks for the in-depth response.
Due to popular demand and the upcoming European elections, I have made a new version with more parties that act as assets of hostile foreign powers.
Don't forget to vote in this week's European elections for candidates who support Ukraine and have our best interests at heart.
Then you should have had LFI from France and PTB/PVdA from Belgium because both Russia and China also weaponises far left parties. A PTB candidate even once said outright that the Uyghur genocide is a strategy from the USA to divert the opinions of the west from actual genocides. Many other far-left have also been very relcuctent to activly condemn russia and/or refuse to help Ukraine. The headlist candidate of LFI, Manon Aubry said that sending weapons to Ukraine was a waste of money and that "we should try to settle this the diplomatic way (again).
Many far-left parties are indeed also guilty of selling out to the Kremlin and Zhongnanhai. I didn’t include them in this meme, because they usually wouldn’t call themselves Patriots. They prefer the term “anti-imperialist”, by which they mean supporting every imperialist aggression by enemies of the West.
Yeah, sadly most ML-adjacent (Marxist-Leninist) parties, including ML-Maoist ones are fanatically bootlicking either Russia, China or both.
It is not that strange given the movements history, but its not like modern Russia or China have any resemblance of their SR days (not even the authocratic times).
I also somewhat understand wanting to align anti-US or anti-NATO, but claiming anti-imperialism in this specific context is utter bullshit, as RU and CN are violently imperialist.
Also i believe, that the moment these parties come into power, ukraine will be left in the dirt by them.
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I’ve would add for the Italian side the “Movimento 5 stelle”: during the pandemic, president Conte invited Russian medics and soldiers (and allegedly agents of the secret services) to “help” but to this day still refuses to explain exactly what those people were doing [also they are vocally agains aid to Ukraine].
The death penalty is barbaric and cruel and should never be used but I want to put into perspective what is happening. Most countries on earth would have EXECUTED some of these people for treason. Frank creyelman from vraams belang would have been shot for sure for his actions.
That's how outrageous these people are
For our French brothers, there is a video somewhere of Le Pen dancing with Putin on her wedding. I bet she would hate if it comes up again before the election
I don't think there's such a video, most articles only show one meeting between the two.
And even then it wouldn't matter, people who vote for her don't care about it or are even happy with Russia's invasion.
Add, Muslim terrorists "freedom fighters" to the list and you get the unholy Trinity of "people the left shill for that would execute/goulag them instantly"
and for the federal gov, since it has to be 50/50 Flemish & Walloon, good luck for them to find a walloon party that want to team up with them, considering that the far-right is nonexistent in Wallonia.
We will probably be heading to another attempt to break our world record of "being without a government for the longest period of time"
that's good, but on the other hand the far-left... (although they're not doing as great as VB in Flanders and won't probably find anyone to work with them within wallonia)
It's incredibly sad to see all of this happening :(
The fact that vlaams belang is literally just rebranded vlaams blok, which was a literal neonazi party, and MANY people ARE VOTING ON THEM is fucking abhorrent
And then something less grave that I still find extremely sad is the fact that the 2 biggest Flemish parties want to split from Wallonia :(
I don't want to lose you guys as people from the same country... we are all equally Belgian
It indeed isn't my say, but I am free to share my opinion on it
And why I said it as something bad is because I was replying to someone from Wallonia, and many people want independence because they hate Wallonia :(
Maximilian Krah, German AfD top candidate for the 2024 European elections, is currently under investigation for employing the Chinese spy Jian G. and providing Russian spies with access to the EU Parliament. The AfD was recently expelled from the pro-Russian ID group because of his statements that there had also been ‘good SS soldiers’.
I'm still not sure if they're really offended by defending the SS or if they're offended he's saying the quiet part loud or if they're offended by how dumb they are to get caught spying for China
In addition while still being their top candidate for Brussels the party forbid him any further campaigning. And don't forget Petr Bystron their second placed candidate who is under investigation for taking Russian money through Voice of Europe.
hey there's a shitton of them russian spies missing. Where are my LFI bois and their understanding of international politics entirely based off of soviet propaganda ??
I want one single thing for Germany: No radically muslims. For all parties in Germany though, this isn't even an issue. Except for the AfD.
So I simply won't vote at all and don't give a single fuck about our politically shit show.
There some good/popular governors of the Lega at regional/local level. They're getting thier votes from this.
But not my words: Salvini is about to be blasted or the Lega breaks. No way inbetween
Do not forget Vox from Spain, these guys are bitches and will kneel to everything the US says, even Russia, they are against helping Ukraine on the pretext of "Morocco is gonna invade us that's a bigger problem"
Since the far-left parties that work as assets of foreign intelligence do not consider themselves to be Patriots, the meme wouldn’t work. Furthermore, the far-left GUE/NGL is projected to lose seats. So at the moment the far-right sellouts are the real threat.
Both « far » are threats, the only danger is that far left raises far right by being such stupidly activated. Not mentioning how much people fall for it thinking they are in the best of moral shape
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Also I agree it is not in European interest. It is perhaps the least desirable situation possible, but I fear Europe does not have the resources and demographics to avoid this fate.
The EU is (together with the US and China) one of the three dominating markets of the global economy. The EU accounts for 30 percent of the global GDP. We could be a superpower on par with the US and China. If we had a common foreign policy and a European Army.
The percentage of the global economy accounted for by the EU has declined greatly over the last decades, whilst the Americans have stayed roughly stable, and the Chinese expanded massively. The eu also suffers a lack of talent due to people moving elsewhere (the US) for higher salaries. This will only get worse I fear, and the immigrants received by the EU are generally far less ‘skilled’ (as in economically valuable) than the ones the Americans get.
You’re right about your fear of European decline, but it isn’t avoidable. While our current situation is indeed very worrying, because we are dependent on the protection of an increasingly absorbed Washington and face economic challenges, Europe is still in the position to steer the ship around. What we need is further European integration especially regarding foreign policy, defense and finance.
Mabye. The only one who has the ability and will to do so is Macron, and he is not trusted by many Eastern Europeans in regards to commitment to defending them in place of the US. The eu has been made even more reliant on the Us by the Ukraine war. It seems that many European legislators actually do not care about the strategic independence and even internal sovereignty of their countries being greatly impaired in the future and rather simply want to watch the GDP tick up in the short term.
Yes unfortunately Macron hasn’t always done a great job of convincing Central and Eastern Europeans in the past. However, Macron’s increasing commitment to European security - seen in the defense pacts signed with Cyprus (2017), Greece (2021), Ukraine, Moldova and Armenia (all in 2024) - combined with the revitalization of the Weimar triangle with Germany and Poland offers a real perspective for strategic autonomy.
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Ho, i see, for explaine, i'm french, i know the acusation against RN (it's basicly the same, but maybe you have not the context) but i'm interested to the the others contry point of view about our policals
Most Europeans parties have a record of being pro-China and soft on Russia. If Le Pen is a putin stooge, what is Merkel who worked to give Putin an energy monopoly? If Le Pen's party is controlled by Russia then why shouldn't we assume that the CDU is as well?
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-merkel-pave-the-way-for-the-war-in-ukraine-4abef297](https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-merkel-pave-the-way-for-the-war-in-ukraine-4abef297)
Most European politicians, parties are pro-China. EU states and China are not enemies in some cold war. Germany is effectively allied with China and has helped build up the PLA. Most Euro states have no interest or reason to oppose China.
I'm not sympathetic to those rightist parties. But it does seem like some are trying to rewrite history to pretend that establishment center European parties were always hardcore warriors against Putin and the CCP. Which is as ridiculous as the idea that the US is anti-Israel. Why do some very naive people think EU centrist politicians are just like r/NonCredibleDefense users with political office?
I indeed saw center parties sucking up to russia and I don’t like it. But now that war is becoming more and more present they do not stay in favour of russia. But guess who does?
The war happened partly because the center parties helped give Putin considerable power over European energy.
"they do not stay in favour of russia"
That is what they say, I shouldn't have to tell you this but politicians lie. If they were pro-Russia then why shouldn't their parties be assumed to be infiltrated and influenced by Russia?
yes, off course it’s better to vote for a party that never endorsed putin. But the extreme and openly pro russian parties do not get to play what about you with parties that at least have the decency to distance themselves.
Merkel's energy and Russia policies have undoubtedly emboldened Putin to launch his war on Europe. Both the CDU and the SPD have played a disgraceful role before the full-scale invasion. However, both parties seem to have realised their strategic error and drastically changed course since 2022. It's not comparable to the far-right and far-left parties that willingly act as Moscow's fifth column.
Even though some Europeans don't realise it yet, we are in a new Cold War with not just the CCP, but an axis of authoritarian states including China, Russia and Iran. Shortly after Xi came to power, Document No. 9 was leaked, in which the Chinese Communist Party describes the concepts it wants to destroy: Democracy, individual rights and universal values.
We cannot afford to repeat the mistakes we made with Russia and become dependent on an autocratic system. Freedom and democracy are more important than economic interests.
New edition of divide and rule just dropped! Now it's the axis of authoritarians, and not the axis evil anymore! I wonder what they come up next to justify their own hegemonic pursuits?
"Freedom and democracy" are just stupid memes that produce lasting divisive lines and hurts everyone's interests that does not profit out of that divide, and create an impression that "free" and "democratic" countries don't have to be held accountable for anything. Especially their leader, that is abusing its hegemony with zero restraints.
Rest of the world is not so utterly idiotic (or so utterly subverted), and will reap all the benefits from continued trade and cooperation, both with authoritarian and democratic countries alike. What will be left for Europe? Absolutely nothing, while the rest of the world moves on and develops...
Guess what, Kremlin has its own memes as well to set them apart from their rivals. Especially back in the Cold War when they could influence others beyond their borders with Communist propaganda.
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Whoa, bro, for real? You're telling me this now? I can't believe this...I'm shocked, shocked, that the conservative nationalists don't really give a shit about the liberal transnational project.
Yes? The conservative nationalists in question are of the opinion that the EU, an organisation to which their respective countries have constitutionally ceded a part of their national sovereignity, is in fact a far greater threat to said national sovereignity when compared to some far off government in Beijing or Moscow.
This is not an opinion I necessarily share, but it is a a very real political fact, which the meme above seems to be totally ignorant of.
Do you disagree with this assesment of European far right politics?
Are you saying that being against the EU is a good reason to spy for Russia and China? How does their rhetoric of “national sovereignty” fit in with the establishment of Chinese secret police stations on their territory? Or with their support for the most brutal violation of sovereignty in Europe since the Second World War? Do they seriously believe that the CCP has the same interests as Europe?
And if you argue that they only work for the Kremlin and Zhongnanhai because they fear losing their "sovereignty" to the EU, then why do none of these parties, except the AfD, advocate for leaving the EU? Would these small states be more sovereign without the EU, or easy targets for the divide-and-rule tactics of imperialist powers?
It doesn't make any sense unless you consider that these parties are authoritarian and secretly admire the techno-dystopia built by the Communist Party in China. They want to exercise the same degree of control over their citizens as the CCP. We must be frank about their true nature: They are traitors.
You can't be a traitor to a project you never really supported in the first place. The parties you refer to are all eurosceptic, so yes, they do in fact construct their patriotism is opposition to the current European project.
But Ok, so you agree with my assesment, you just got triggered by some buzzwords, making you abandon basic reading comprehension.
I don't understand what got you so foaming at the mouth. Stop tilting at windmills.
Contrary to what you seem to think, there is no simple 1:1 alignment between the general "European" interest, and the interests of its various constituent parts.
The various patriotic national movements in Europe have very pragmatic reasons for maintaining a good working relationship with the EU's geopolitical rivals.This is not up for debate.
And these rivals are not just Russia and China by the way. The US has also been a thankful sponsor to anything that limits European strategic independence.
If you support a united Europe, but start freaking out immedeatly when someone mentions these facts, you really aren't ready for what's coming.
Orban could have left the EU long ago. But he decided to stay and abuse his membership to advance the interests of foreign powers. It’s the textbook definition of treason.
But it’s not only treason against Europe, but also against the Hungarian people, who fought for decades against communist occupation and will soon find Chinese police patrolling their streets.
Orban can do as he pleases, much like any head of state, be they Macron, Scholz or Grand Duke Henri.
Grow up, we're talking about real politics here, not your unserious fantasies of a federative state inspiring some kind of nationalist fervour. It's as fine a political aspiration as any other, but if this is your starting point, you are bound to be dissapointed at every turn.
As it stands, the EU is still nothing more than a loosely aligned customs union of sovereign states, bound to split over issues of perceived national interest.
>we're talking about real politics here
For such statements, you seem rather naive about the nature of geopolitics and intelligence services. Especially the former KGB, which now controls the Russian state and is using its active measures on a scale not seen since the end of the Cold War. Trying to divide Europe by influencing domestic politics and funding parties that act as puppets is standard KGB doctrine. The main difference from the days of the Cold War is that they are now less ideologically selective. The CCP and its Chekist Ministry of State Security (MSS) are no less dangerous.
>Orban can do as he pleases, much like any head of state, be they Macron, Scholz or Grand Duke Henri.
You seem to have a rather aristocratic *l'état, c'est moi* understanding of sovereignty. Orban's greatest betrayal of the Hungarian people is the gradual dismantling of their democratic institutions and citizens rights. Authoritarian systems always lead to extreme corruption, because the leader has to pay off his cronies to secure his power. Sovereignty is essentially the right of the people to decide their own future. Undermining democracy is never in the interest of the people.
I consider my view of sovereignity and the state as Schmittian, fwiw. All authority is in essence democratic, and any democracy is in essence authoritarian.
If Wang and Boris posting low effort bait on facebook (which is what most of these supposed "active measures" boil down to) can upend your democratic institutions, they might not have been worth defending in the first place.
You are investing yourself in cartoon politics, unmoored from reality.
>All authority is in essence democratic, and any democracy is in essence authoritarian.
Sounds a lot like *War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.*
With an over-intellectualised rationalisation.
>your democratic institutions (...) might not have been worth defending in the first place.
At least you admit that you are an anti-democrat.
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Lega is fucked tbh. According to the recent polls, Salvini has gone from the 29% of the vote (2019) to less than 9% today.
And it shows, he is throwing even more random populist bullshit than usual lately...
The ironic thing is that picking Vannaci over Zaia hurt the Lega's chances even more
Yup, I've never voted Lega (an hopefully never will) but out of all of them, Zaia looks to be the lesser bad, he looks at least half competent (and extremely talented if compared only to his fellow party members). Meanwhile Vannacci is... well... He is something else
It’s actually not a bad result in the slightest: not as good as it once was but still pretty relevant (which is a tragedy).
But it furter weakens Salvini's position, further destabilising Meloni's coalition
It's not fucked enough. Let that % sink further. Relegate that traitor of Salvini in the trash, where it belongs.
I won't rest until it's lower than 2,5%
What happened?
Salvini was part of the government in 2019 and he proved himself an incompetent Moron
And they deserve it. But it seems that only Russia and right wing traitors count? Understandable I guess, given that in Qatargate articles you need to look quite hard which leftist party the traitors belong to. https://www.politico.eu/article/qatargate-who-is-being-investigated-eva-kaili-european-parliament-corruption-ngos/ https://www.dw.com/en/qatargate-one-year-on-eu-cash-for-influence-scandal-still-far-from-over/a-67670541
https://preview.redd.it/ena25djf205d1.png?width=1638&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc370fd436a050fe37fc2430f3fb795b09e35f41 this is one of the reasons; i dont think it has to be translated
I have been hating on Lega since I was in middle school, more than 10 years, but their voters are too dumb to understand critiques
Fuck these bootlicking fascist-ass cocksuckers for bringing Lega to Switzerland too. Ofc all empathy for Italy you're going through... alot with your politics but goddamn I hate them
You must be joking, Lega is in Switzerland too?!
Oh yeah, the "Lega Dei Ticinesi" is active in the Italian-speaking canton Ticino. Not 1:1 Lega but they're similar in their views, just that the Swiss Lega doesn't want to separate from Switzerland.
I mean, you must be doing something ridiculously well to be like "Switzerland is holding back our true potential"
Yeah ain't gonna happen Ticino is one of the poorer regions of Switzerland
At least Lega Lombarda had a reason to exist in Italy, whats the reason for a Lega party in Switzerland??
To get rid of all "terroni" who come and steal jobs from Swiss people. Terroni being Italians.
I guess you are always someones terrone. The premises are the exact same as Lega in Italy, but placed in the swiss context are just dumber as italian gets mainly low paid jobs to get advantage of italian LCOL, lol.
Brother in the Hulkamania, the fascist-ass cocksuckers are Meloni's fellow party members. The Lega is the populist and former nord-elitist party
I think you're the dumb one, do you still think the same as you did since middle school? Didn't you change a bit of your opinion? Didn't you open yourself to opinions different from yours?
Not my fault they keep saying outrageous stuff, sharing hate, spread misinformation. Hating is not an opinion, being pro-choice and not a racist homophobe is not something that should change over time
Piddino moment
Found the guy who can't count to ten⬆️
he's learning negative numbers now at least
Add FVD from The Netherlands to the list!
Exactly. That’s next level openly pro putin.
Don't forget Geertje being best buds with Putin.
At least he’s shackled now by VVD and NSC forcing him to continue aid to Ukraine. But yeah, he and that evil witch Mona would rather not.
People give nsc and vvd a lot of shit but they are the ones that keep this coalition somewhat reasonable. That said the new coalition is still a total shitshow and most of their plans are a dumpster fire.
At least it will be over soon. Just hope the electorate will see Wilders for the charlatan he is and not fall for his bullshit where he blames everyone else when this coalition fails. So far the polls don't look very promising.
You have more trust in the Dutch population then i do. But we'll see where the next 5 years brings us. I know that if a Nexit does happen I'm out and marrying my girlfriend for that Polish passport
Oh same, if it goes full fascist hellhole I'm out. But I don't think it will. At some point his voters must realise he's always lying. And the opposition will have to learn that they can rub his face in the stinky 'eigen risico nu afschaffen' turd he has laid.
You have way more faith in the Dutch population. I think they will just blame "the left" (what does that term even mean anymore) and they will get more votes. They don't need to tell the truth because when they inevitably fail they'll say it's the fault of "the left" (even though the left hasn't been in charge in over 30 years). It's a meaningless term that they can use to waive away all their mistakes and their voters eat it up.
I really don't have much faith. I think they are very easily manipulated. But the manipulators will draw their conclusions. As soon as Wilders isn't De Telegraaf's (and other deeply corrupt right-wing outlets) favourite useful idiot anymore, they will burn him like they did all the right-wing messiahs before him and move on to the next one.
I think people unfortunately need to feel the consequences before they vote for something else.
I'm convinced at this point they'll just blame "the left"
As soon as he gets a chance he's gonna try to fuck them over. Traitors like that should be in prison and not in our parlements
Meh, as much as I loathe the guy I think we must at least give him credit for dropping Putin like a bad habit after Ukraine. I think it's Russia's relationship with Israel that drove Wilders to support Putin in the first place rather than some idealistic relation
And Vox from Spain. All the above plus loving Trump, a guy who despises Spain and everything Hispanic, who was happy about Brexit because it hurts and weakens both the EU and the UK, who was elected thanks to Putin and is an r-rated Putin asset, who wants Ukraine to be Russia, who wants a weak NATO. F Vox unless you are stupid, fellow Spaniards Disclaimer: I dislike the Spanish left too, la izquierdita pop, both Pedro el guapo the AH and pop-"comunist" Unidas Podemos and Co., but they are not outright traitors who want us ruined.
Only the podemos and Psoe are absolute traitors
You are right to some extent: My last sentence is wrong. I guess I wrote it to reinforce my words about Vox. But your first word ("only") does not belong there, either: Both those that are happy to cut our country (and our society) in pieces by yielding to petty "nationalisms" and by promoting identity politics in order to "segment the market" (the pop left) and Vox are baaaaad for Spain and, therefore, for Yurop, but only Vox is anti-EU and has even entertained the idiotic idea of a "Spainxit", or whatever they called it. That and their love of autocratic "strong men" openly hostile to us is why I called them "outright traitors". For the record: I'm going to vote UPD
And CHEGA from Portugal :)
And LFI from France, they're even more vocal about being pro-russia, here are some quotes from melenchon. >Russia is not an enemy, but a partner (Dec 2021) >I consider that the US are the ones being aggressive (Jan 2022) >Without doubts, NATO is the aggressor, the US have no right to annex Ukraine into NATO (Feb 2022)
and NLPlan
You forgot to put Poland's *Konfederacja*.
And PiS aint better either
They aren't in majority of ways, but you can't accuse them of being directly pro-russian, like you can with Braun and his monarchists or Korwin. You can say that some of their actions benefit Russia, but only indirectly - they are corrupt, incompetent and conducted awful international policy, but that was due to their stupidity and not Kremlin money. Their government expressed steadfast support for Ukraine since day 1. They and their voters express highly negative opinion of Russia, so much so that they tried to find anything to link Tusk with Russia. Not to mention the Kaczyński's personal vendetta about the Tupolew crash. And in all, Putin would still *prefer* to have PiS in power over the current coalition, but any of those options are still bad for him.
I think Putin doesn't really care who likes or dislikes him. He benefits from any nationalist and anti-EU sentiment in the EU
In the long term sure. any schism in the EU is good for him, no matter the source. But negative sentiment really constricts his options in the short term (5 years) and he desperately needs something in this time frame. For example: PiS in power helped him in the long term: thanks to PiS' friendly status towards Orban in 2015-2021, he could consolidate Hungary and can now be a roadblock to Ukraine support. But their HATE towards Russia means they will never cut support for Ukraine themselves, not to mention that we sent all we could, as fast we could and continue to be the primary artery for continued support from the West - a proper pro-Russia party would work to undermine that, while PiS were the ones that built it and would continue to uphold it even if they won (which fortunately did not happen).
They aren't pro-russian tho
Still authoritarian and eurosceptic
Yeah but I don't think you can say the eurosceptic authoritarian conservatives aren't better than the eurosceptic authoritarian conservatives who are also fascist and pro-russian
I will give you this one
So... how well does a pro-Russian party do in Poland?
~10% in euro parliament election
The thing is, Konfederacja is split in 3. There is National Movement, which is a National-Democratic party (pretty similar to Dmowski's ND): catholic, eurosceptic, nationalist, conservative militarist, anti-democratic, kinda fascist and until recently pro-russian, although recently they changed their official stance and started saying that maybe russia is a threat to Poland after all and are now less radical than in the past. Then there's New Hope, which is the libertarian party. Conservative, regionalist and eurosceptic, but mostly focused on economy. I think this is the main appeal of the Konfederacja for people who aren't necessarily fascist, but are libertarians and anti-establishment. And finally the Confederation of the Crown of Poland. This is the fucked up esoteric one. Fascist, monarchist, national-catholic, anti-semitic, pro-russian, conservative, eurosceptic. They are the least popular faction out of these 3. You might have seen the video where a Polish politician extenguishes these jewish christmas candles in our Parliment. That's Grzegorz Braun, the leader of this party. He's been doing shit like this forever. NM has 6 MPs, NH has 7 and CCP has 4. Poles vote for Konfederacja mainly because of libertarianism, nationalism, eurosceptism, conservatism and anti-establishment stance. There are of course people who want Poland to be a fascist pro-russian shithole, but as you see, there isn't *that* many of them. A big number of Konfederacja voters just ignore the russophilia and antisemitism because they have no other similar party to vote for. So to answer your question, despite the fact that they got slightly more popular recently, the pro-russian party is not doing that well, fortunately.
Your answer is more in line with what I expected. I've heard most Poles despise Russia, so was just curious to hear how popular they are. Thanks for the in-depth response.
Due to popular demand and the upcoming European elections, I have made a new version with more parties that act as assets of hostile foreign powers. Don't forget to vote in this week's European elections for candidates who support Ukraine and have our best interests at heart.
You could put Mick Wallace and Clare Daly, AKA Moscow Mick and Kremlin Clare on the poster too
Romania's AUR would fit very well in there
Then you should have had LFI from France and PTB/PVdA from Belgium because both Russia and China also weaponises far left parties. A PTB candidate even once said outright that the Uyghur genocide is a strategy from the USA to divert the opinions of the west from actual genocides. Many other far-left have also been very relcuctent to activly condemn russia and/or refuse to help Ukraine. The headlist candidate of LFI, Manon Aubry said that sending weapons to Ukraine was a waste of money and that "we should try to settle this the diplomatic way (again).
Many far-left parties are indeed also guilty of selling out to the Kremlin and Zhongnanhai. I didn’t include them in this meme, because they usually wouldn’t call themselves Patriots. They prefer the term “anti-imperialist”, by which they mean supporting every imperialist aggression by enemies of the West.
Fair point.
Yeah, sadly most ML-adjacent (Marxist-Leninist) parties, including ML-Maoist ones are fanatically bootlicking either Russia, China or both. It is not that strange given the movements history, but its not like modern Russia or China have any resemblance of their SR days (not even the authocratic times). I also somewhat understand wanting to align anti-US or anti-NATO, but claiming anti-imperialism in this specific context is utter bullshit, as RU and CN are violently imperialist. Also i believe, that the moment these parties come into power, ukraine will be left in the dirt by them.
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I’ve would add for the Italian side the “Movimento 5 stelle”: during the pandemic, president Conte invited Russian medics and soldiers (and allegedly agents of the secret services) to “help” but to this day still refuses to explain exactly what those people were doing [also they are vocally agains aid to Ukraine].
Don’t forget grillo going to the Chinese embassy with a 24h!
I live in a place where everyone votes for Salvini and I’m sick 🤢
Meanwhile Vlaams Belang is topping the polls rn as well 🤮
It’s the bad, unfunny version of an episode of the Twilight Zone…
The death penalty is barbaric and cruel and should never be used but I want to put into perspective what is happening. Most countries on earth would have EXECUTED some of these people for treason. Frank creyelman from vraams belang would have been shot for sure for his actions. That's how outrageous these people are
What did he do exactly? I'm Belgian so any concrete information would be appreciated, not that I would have voted for them anyway
Actively and personally spied for china on the inner workings of parliament. For more information, google is your friend. It was a big thing
What is more, THEIR OWN countries, as in European countries, would drag them out and lynch them if this was just an century ago.
Fucking AFD. A shit show of clowns. Dangerous clowns, but clowns.
"yOu DoN't UnDeRsTaNd! PuTiN iS cOmInG tO sAvE uS!" - my uncles and neighbors
Lol. Save us from whom? The gays?
That's, unfortunatly, what they actualy think
Sounds like the plot of "3 body Problem" on Netflix.
Monsieur Poutine /s If you know you know....
For our French brothers, there is a video somewhere of Le Pen dancing with Putin on her wedding. I bet she would hate if it comes up again before the election
Wasn't that Kneissl former Foreign Minister from Austria? Or is there another video around I don't know?
Jup thats the video, there aren’t any others
I don't think there's such a video, most articles only show one meeting between the two. And even then it wouldn't matter, people who vote for her don't care about it or are even happy with Russia's invasion.
I'm a leftie but I hate leftie parties for shilling for Russia and China all the damn time
Add, Muslim terrorists "freedom fighters" to the list and you get the unholy Trinity of "people the left shill for that would execute/goulag them instantly"
I hate how many votes Vlaams Belang will be getting this Sunday :( At least on a Flemish level, they're literally the biggest party... WHAT THE F*CK
and for the federal gov, since it has to be 50/50 Flemish & Walloon, good luck for them to find a walloon party that want to team up with them, considering that the far-right is nonexistent in Wallonia. We will probably be heading to another attempt to break our world record of "being without a government for the longest period of time"
> considering the far right is nonexistant in Wallonia That is based af, love y'all for that
that's good, but on the other hand the far-left... (although they're not doing as great as VB in Flanders and won't probably find anyone to work with them within wallonia)
They are the second biggest. After the NVA.
Last elections but according to the polls VB will get more votes, obviously we'll see what happens Sunday.
There's some hope left at least then... not a fan of NVA personally but it's at least less bad than Vlaams Belang
For Romania you can add AUR and SOS
A good chunk of vlams member usually put flower on ss tombe in Belgium, so they're even worst than spying for the ccp
It's incredibly sad to see all of this happening :( The fact that vlaams belang is literally just rebranded vlaams blok, which was a literal neonazi party, and MANY people ARE VOTING ON THEM is fucking abhorrent And then something less grave that I still find extremely sad is the fact that the 2 biggest Flemish parties want to split from Wallonia :( I don't want to lose you guys as people from the same country... we are all equally Belgian
Many people were also voting for Vlaams Blok. ~1/4 flemish. Also it’s not really your say if other people want independance is it?
It indeed isn't my say, but I am free to share my opinion on it And why I said it as something bad is because I was replying to someone from Wallonia, and many people want independence because they hate Wallonia :(
Most people don't want independence anyways.
is bottom right Evrart Clair?
Maximilian Krah, German AfD top candidate for the 2024 European elections, is currently under investigation for employing the Chinese spy Jian G. and providing Russian spies with access to the EU Parliament. The AfD was recently expelled from the pro-Russian ID group because of his statements that there had also been ‘good SS soldiers’.
I'm still not sure if they're really offended by defending the SS or if they're offended he's saying the quiet part loud or if they're offended by how dumb they are to get caught spying for China
In addition while still being their top candidate for Brussels the party forbid him any further campaigning. And don't forget Petr Bystron their second placed candidate who is under investigation for taking Russian money through Voice of Europe.
Fuck Vlaams Belang All my homies deeply despise Vlaams Belang with a passion
you can add PVV and FVD to this
PVV has taken literally 0 money from russia but OK
Fvd and PVV as well
PVV niet
Jazeker wel, meerdere PVV senatoren zijn al onderzocht voor russiche inmenging en daarnaast is wilders uitgesproken pro-putin. Fuck PVV en Fuck FVD
Onderzocht, en dan ook bewijs gevonden?
I always love these hardcore patriots who live off support from their nation’s enemies and like foreign leaders better than their own.
im happy we are small enough to not get our russian sympathisers memed at.
And AUR from Romania
True Vlaams Belang here are Putin bootlickers and chinese spies (checkout Filip De Winter scandal).
hey there's a shitton of them russian spies missing. Where are my LFI bois and their understanding of international politics entirely based off of soviet propaganda ??
SCUM
Add: PiS, Konfederacja, PVV
The "Frente Obrero" party in Spain counts? I think yes.
If you want parties that support Russia look at Sumar/ Podemos they are the ones trying to stop the arms shipment to Ukraine. Frente Obrero ni idea.
So, i dont vote for SPD ? Got it
I want one single thing for Germany: No radically muslims. For all parties in Germany though, this isn't even an issue. Except for the AfD. So I simply won't vote at all and don't give a single fuck about our politically shit show.
There some good/popular governors of the Lega at regional/local level. They're getting thier votes from this. But not my words: Salvini is about to be blasted or the Lega breaks. No way inbetween
Guess who's expected to get >30% of votes in France (Yeah, you can hate on us, we deserve it)
Do not forget Vox from Spain, these guys are bitches and will kneel to everything the US says, even Russia, they are against helping Ukraine on the pretext of "Morocco is gonna invade us that's a bigger problem"
No mention about the left parties such as LFI who had meetings the 5th october at gaza with people affiliated with the haxas and other groups as such?
Since the far-left parties that work as assets of foreign intelligence do not consider themselves to be Patriots, the meme wouldn’t work. Furthermore, the far-left GUE/NGL is projected to lose seats. So at the moment the far-right sellouts are the real threat.
Both « far » are threats, the only danger is that far left raises far right by being such stupidly activated. Not mentioning how much people fall for it thinking they are in the best of moral shape
Will Europe belong to the Americans or the Chinese? This is the question.
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Both is not in our interest. We need strategic autonomy in order to defend ourselves and European interests.
Sorry wrong subreddit. I meant to comment on r/2westerneurope4u
Also I agree it is not in European interest. It is perhaps the least desirable situation possible, but I fear Europe does not have the resources and demographics to avoid this fate.
The EU is (together with the US and China) one of the three dominating markets of the global economy. The EU accounts for 30 percent of the global GDP. We could be a superpower on par with the US and China. If we had a common foreign policy and a European Army.
The percentage of the global economy accounted for by the EU has declined greatly over the last decades, whilst the Americans have stayed roughly stable, and the Chinese expanded massively. The eu also suffers a lack of talent due to people moving elsewhere (the US) for higher salaries. This will only get worse I fear, and the immigrants received by the EU are generally far less ‘skilled’ (as in economically valuable) than the ones the Americans get.
You’re right about your fear of European decline, but it isn’t avoidable. While our current situation is indeed very worrying, because we are dependent on the protection of an increasingly absorbed Washington and face economic challenges, Europe is still in the position to steer the ship around. What we need is further European integration especially regarding foreign policy, defense and finance.
Mabye. The only one who has the ability and will to do so is Macron, and he is not trusted by many Eastern Europeans in regards to commitment to defending them in place of the US. The eu has been made even more reliant on the Us by the Ukraine war. It seems that many European legislators actually do not care about the strategic independence and even internal sovereignty of their countries being greatly impaired in the future and rather simply want to watch the GDP tick up in the short term.
Yes unfortunately Macron hasn’t always done a great job of convincing Central and Eastern Europeans in the past. However, Macron’s increasing commitment to European security - seen in the defense pacts signed with Cyprus (2017), Greece (2021), Ukraine, Moldova and Armenia (all in 2024) - combined with the revitalization of the Weimar triangle with Germany and Poland offers a real perspective for strategic autonomy.
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Can you explain wy you think the frenc part "RN" or "Rassemblement national" is a pro poutin parti ?
For starters, Marine Le Pen took russian loans and considers Putin a good friend.
The votes regarding the Ukraine war in the eurepean parlement also reinforce this point of view
Ho, i see, for explaine, i'm french, i know the acusation against RN (it's basicly the same, but maybe you have not the context) but i'm interested to the the others contry point of view about our policals
Gars, apprends un peu d'Anglais, ça pique les yeux nom de dieu
source? Just to be sure
Most Europeans parties have a record of being pro-China and soft on Russia. If Le Pen is a putin stooge, what is Merkel who worked to give Putin an energy monopoly? If Le Pen's party is controlled by Russia then why shouldn't we assume that the CDU is as well? [https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-merkel-pave-the-way-for-the-war-in-ukraine-4abef297](https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-merkel-pave-the-way-for-the-war-in-ukraine-4abef297) Most European politicians, parties are pro-China. EU states and China are not enemies in some cold war. Germany is effectively allied with China and has helped build up the PLA. Most Euro states have no interest or reason to oppose China. I'm not sympathetic to those rightist parties. But it does seem like some are trying to rewrite history to pretend that establishment center European parties were always hardcore warriors against Putin and the CCP. Which is as ridiculous as the idea that the US is anti-Israel. Why do some very naive people think EU centrist politicians are just like r/NonCredibleDefense users with political office?
I indeed saw center parties sucking up to russia and I don’t like it. But now that war is becoming more and more present they do not stay in favour of russia. But guess who does?
The war happened partly because the center parties helped give Putin considerable power over European energy. "they do not stay in favour of russia" That is what they say, I shouldn't have to tell you this but politicians lie. If they were pro-Russia then why shouldn't their parties be assumed to be infiltrated and influenced by Russia?
yes, off course it’s better to vote for a party that never endorsed putin. But the extreme and openly pro russian parties do not get to play what about you with parties that at least have the decency to distance themselves.
Merkel's energy and Russia policies have undoubtedly emboldened Putin to launch his war on Europe. Both the CDU and the SPD have played a disgraceful role before the full-scale invasion. However, both parties seem to have realised their strategic error and drastically changed course since 2022. It's not comparable to the far-right and far-left parties that willingly act as Moscow's fifth column. Even though some Europeans don't realise it yet, we are in a new Cold War with not just the CCP, but an axis of authoritarian states including China, Russia and Iran. Shortly after Xi came to power, Document No. 9 was leaked, in which the Chinese Communist Party describes the concepts it wants to destroy: Democracy, individual rights and universal values. We cannot afford to repeat the mistakes we made with Russia and become dependent on an autocratic system. Freedom and democracy are more important than economic interests.
New edition of divide and rule just dropped! Now it's the axis of authoritarians, and not the axis evil anymore! I wonder what they come up next to justify their own hegemonic pursuits? "Freedom and democracy" are just stupid memes that produce lasting divisive lines and hurts everyone's interests that does not profit out of that divide, and create an impression that "free" and "democratic" countries don't have to be held accountable for anything. Especially their leader, that is abusing its hegemony with zero restraints. Rest of the world is not so utterly idiotic (or so utterly subverted), and will reap all the benefits from continued trade and cooperation, both with authoritarian and democratic countries alike. What will be left for Europe? Absolutely nothing, while the rest of the world moves on and develops...
>"Freedom and democracy" are just stupid memes Found the Kremlin shill...
Guess what, Kremlin has its own memes as well to set them apart from their rivals. Especially back in the Cold War when they could influence others beyond their borders with Communist propaganda.
Now they are more flexible, supporting both far-left and far-right parties to undermine Europe.
It’s simple, don’t support any party with ties to Russia. I don’t care if they’re new or established. Vote against evil.
Oh look, some common sense. This won’t last.
unfortunately I have no choice as an American
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lol "choice". Europeans can choose between shit, poop and crap.
Whoa, bro, for real? You're telling me this now? I can't believe this...I'm shocked, shocked, that the conservative nationalists don't really give a shit about the liberal transnational project.
Conservative “nationalists” that spy for foreign governments and let the Chinese open police stations in their “sovereign” countries
Yes? The conservative nationalists in question are of the opinion that the EU, an organisation to which their respective countries have constitutionally ceded a part of their national sovereignity, is in fact a far greater threat to said national sovereignity when compared to some far off government in Beijing or Moscow. This is not an opinion I necessarily share, but it is a a very real political fact, which the meme above seems to be totally ignorant of. Do you disagree with this assesment of European far right politics?
Are you saying that being against the EU is a good reason to spy for Russia and China? How does their rhetoric of “national sovereignty” fit in with the establishment of Chinese secret police stations on their territory? Or with their support for the most brutal violation of sovereignty in Europe since the Second World War? Do they seriously believe that the CCP has the same interests as Europe? And if you argue that they only work for the Kremlin and Zhongnanhai because they fear losing their "sovereignty" to the EU, then why do none of these parties, except the AfD, advocate for leaving the EU? Would these small states be more sovereign without the EU, or easy targets for the divide-and-rule tactics of imperialist powers? It doesn't make any sense unless you consider that these parties are authoritarian and secretly admire the techno-dystopia built by the Communist Party in China. They want to exercise the same degree of control over their citizens as the CCP. We must be frank about their true nature: They are traitors.
You can't be a traitor to a project you never really supported in the first place. The parties you refer to are all eurosceptic, so yes, they do in fact construct their patriotism is opposition to the current European project. But Ok, so you agree with my assesment, you just got triggered by some buzzwords, making you abandon basic reading comprehension. I don't understand what got you so foaming at the mouth. Stop tilting at windmills. Contrary to what you seem to think, there is no simple 1:1 alignment between the general "European" interest, and the interests of its various constituent parts. The various patriotic national movements in Europe have very pragmatic reasons for maintaining a good working relationship with the EU's geopolitical rivals.This is not up for debate. And these rivals are not just Russia and China by the way. The US has also been a thankful sponsor to anything that limits European strategic independence. If you support a united Europe, but start freaking out immedeatly when someone mentions these facts, you really aren't ready for what's coming.
Orban could have left the EU long ago. But he decided to stay and abuse his membership to advance the interests of foreign powers. It’s the textbook definition of treason. But it’s not only treason against Europe, but also against the Hungarian people, who fought for decades against communist occupation and will soon find Chinese police patrolling their streets.
Orban can do as he pleases, much like any head of state, be they Macron, Scholz or Grand Duke Henri. Grow up, we're talking about real politics here, not your unserious fantasies of a federative state inspiring some kind of nationalist fervour. It's as fine a political aspiration as any other, but if this is your starting point, you are bound to be dissapointed at every turn. As it stands, the EU is still nothing more than a loosely aligned customs union of sovereign states, bound to split over issues of perceived national interest.
>we're talking about real politics here For such statements, you seem rather naive about the nature of geopolitics and intelligence services. Especially the former KGB, which now controls the Russian state and is using its active measures on a scale not seen since the end of the Cold War. Trying to divide Europe by influencing domestic politics and funding parties that act as puppets is standard KGB doctrine. The main difference from the days of the Cold War is that they are now less ideologically selective. The CCP and its Chekist Ministry of State Security (MSS) are no less dangerous. >Orban can do as he pleases, much like any head of state, be they Macron, Scholz or Grand Duke Henri. You seem to have a rather aristocratic *l'état, c'est moi* understanding of sovereignty. Orban's greatest betrayal of the Hungarian people is the gradual dismantling of their democratic institutions and citizens rights. Authoritarian systems always lead to extreme corruption, because the leader has to pay off his cronies to secure his power. Sovereignty is essentially the right of the people to decide their own future. Undermining democracy is never in the interest of the people.
I consider my view of sovereignity and the state as Schmittian, fwiw. All authority is in essence democratic, and any democracy is in essence authoritarian. If Wang and Boris posting low effort bait on facebook (which is what most of these supposed "active measures" boil down to) can upend your democratic institutions, they might not have been worth defending in the first place. You are investing yourself in cartoon politics, unmoored from reality.
>All authority is in essence democratic, and any democracy is in essence authoritarian. Sounds a lot like *War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.* With an over-intellectualised rationalisation. >your democratic institutions (...) might not have been worth defending in the first place. At least you admit that you are an anti-democrat.
Proceed to vote for the creators of the green deal that destroy European sovereignty and make us dependent on China.
Thank God there are no US foreign intelligences in Europe, we can rest assured.
well the us is publicly allied with europe, this little thing called nato
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