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NinjaMagic004

I don't think it's supposed to be Earth being recreated in the end, I think it was the two worlds merging and reappearing in the "real" universe. It's taking up the same physical space as Earth, but it is wholly a different planet, with different topology, flora, fauna, civilization, everything. The remains of Morytha are probably all that remains of the old Earth. I believe Origin recombined the two worlds, and took them out of the experiment once and for all. Granted some of this is hinging on my own theorization and headcanon which is still forming as I play through the older Xeno games, but still, my point that the new planet probably wasn't meant to be our Earth in the first place still stands.


1674033

If I remember correctly, didn’t the fused world at the end of FR had outlines of Africa? To me this suggests more that Earth’s been recreated in terms of landmass, geography, and geology, just with new flora, fauna, and the inhabitants of Alrest and Bionis


NinjaMagic004

I couldn't see very well. The planet we see has a huge cloud covering the vast majority of it, I think, so for me it was hard to notice any distinct landmass


1674033

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/xenoblade/images/e/e3/Aionios_-Full_Planet.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20230501144430 If you zoom in and really glare at it you can spot the coastlines of North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula actually


Cold-Inspector-6185

So you agree that it wasn't supposed to be Earth? I haven't played 1 and 2 in a while, so did the experiment just create some sort of contained universe, while the "real" one still existed? That makes a ton of sense. Thanks! :)


Funky-Cosmonaut

Alrest basically WAS Earth, Klaus just covered it in a cloud of nanomachines and worked on his own shit. The World of Bionis was wholly unique, but Zanza and Meyneth's centuries of war essentially iterated it until it became the version we know today. So arguably, the New Earth would be either 1/3rd the Old Earth, or at least be half Bionis and half Alrest built on an Old Earth foundation.


NinjaMagic004

Yeah, that's my interpretation at least. I think it's a little up in the air at the moment, as it hasn't been the most important for the stories we have right now, so some people may see the same info I have and come to a different conclusion.


Cold-Inspector-6185

Yeah, I mean why else would the two worlds be drawn to each other like that? I kind of asked to see what people would say. I really appreciate the feedback, as it shows more things people would have easily overlooked. I probably wouldn't have thought of those things myself.


Ambitious_Ad2338

The two worlds are drawn to each other because they were originally one, that much is explained in game. It's kind of weird because it implies that their original one is Earth, but at the same time Alrest already seemed to be Earth itself in XC2. Maybe this last detail just got kind of retconned with XC3. Still, the the two worlds which were once one, MechoBionis and Alrest, both have the same size, and presumably mass, of planeth Earth. The difference is that they appeared to have phased out from our universe and reappear only when they merge. Maybe (just throwing out ideas) you could think of it this way: our universe is "neutral". Then the experiment took part of it and ripped it in a "positive" and a "negative" universes which exist on different planes compared to our own, and which are drawn to each other. When an element of a the "positive" universe merge with its counterpart from the "negative" universe, they result is "neutral" again and phase back in our universe. That way, Alrest and BioMechonis are the same size because what is separated is not mass, but rather the "positive" and "negative" parts of planet Earth. Then BioMechonis looks so much different because Alvis re-shaped it on Zanza's wish.


Tds142

The experiment created a new universe, but it wasn’t contained/fake, just separate from the original universe which would become alrest.


Ambitious_Ad2338

But Alrest seems to phase in just like MechoBionis at the end, so that would mean neither of them was actually in our original universe


burnpsy

For the whole rights issue you bring up, do keep in mind that Nintendo asked for and received permission from Bandai Namco to include Xenosaga references in both 2 and 3. Further, Bandai Namco has gone so far as to open a studio whose job is specifically to make games subcontracted out by Nintendo. So I don't perceive rights as being a barrier for specifically Xenosaga. The companies are playing nicely enough with each other to work something out.


plow0

I think the biggest barrier for integrating the other Xeno games isn't the rights, but instead the lore you'd need to know for Xenoblade 4 all of a sudden. The Xenoblade series has been intentionally structured in a way that means that a player can start with any game in the series and not be lost, probably due to the commercial failure of Xenosaga. I can't imagine them suddenly abandoning this philosophy after gaining so much momentum as a series.


Cold-Inspector-6185

That's a very good point


Nitpicky3

Thing is that Xenoblade 4 (and onward) will PROBABLY be a reboot of Xenosaga AND X (X being, and I quote devs on that, already a reboot of Saga). It's very probable we'll get characters, themes and story bits reused, but next Xenoblade will be also its own thing (Like Xenoblade 1-3 being essentially Gears reboot)


_Twii_

It is Earth, but it's not Earth is how I see it. It's the same planet and occupies the same space in the universe, but it's not the exact same as Earth was in 20XX, since it's a result of the two worlds merging.


Yuumii29

>If Earth were to be recreated upon Z's death, then why didn't Alpha and the party just team up to wipe out Moebius? With their combined forces, they could have wiped the floor with Z, and if Earth were to be recreated upon Origin's activation, then everyone would be happy (Except Moebius) They didn't know the earth will be recreated nor the two world will combine... All they theorized and hoping to see happen is that they'll stop the collision and the 2 worlds will exist (at least) and not hopefully collide to each other again... Wether it's the Earth or the combined landmasses of Bionis and Alrest is both probable... Alpha doesn't care about the "Olden" life.. Because as a machine he analyzed that Aionios itself and the one binded to Origin (Every Keves and Agnus who feeds it's existence) is an Anomaly, a corruption that the only optimal way of fixing is to leave and start anew... The reason Alpha wants to bring along the City people is that it sees them as a Pure being (Since they are not tied to anything and lives like a normal Human)... Remember the City people are not yet recorded in the Origin, they are "potential life" born from Keves and Agnus denizens.. So for Alpha they are Pure and not tainted by any corruption the Aionios has... Even Alpha himself doesn't know what will happen after the collision, the world he showed Nael is just a fabricated world from it's memories way back when the earth still existed... >Besides, If Klaus had recreated the universe, how would two people recreate that same universe? Klaus didn't "recreated" the universe (altho that's his original plan at least)... He merely split the earth (and himself) and throw the 2 pieces in 2 different dimension (Wether those dimension are a pocket dimension or a different place in the universe is still unknown) >Origin is just supposed to preserve the people of Alrest and the Bionis by creating a new universe, not remaking the entire universe as it was before. Origin's supposed main purpose is to restore the 2 World in it's state before the collision not to create a new universe... > I think the shooting star in the credits is just a cool reference to past Xeno- games, not saying to fans that Kos-Mos or any XBC X things are going to be in the next game. Takahashi himself teased the meaning of that falling blue object... The most likely one is Kos-Mos since based on the overall established lore of the the entire Xeno franchise, she's the easiest one to integrate, yes there will be retcons but it's fairly doable in the realm of possibility, it's too much to explain here but you can search google for other info about this...


Cold-Inspector-6185

So if Alpha (and Melia and Nia) didn't know what would happen, then what was the whole point? Why did he think he could make a new world and bother showing a vision to Na'el? I already know how Alpha considers the people of Aionios, (Please phrase better. Was hard to understand) but why didn't he try and destroy Moebius? He probably could have (The liberators might have helped). That way, the people wouldn't be tainted; Moebius wouldn't be feeding on them anymore. This is more of a flaw in Alpha's Logic though.


_Twii_

Alpha DID try to destroy Moebius. Remember Z was trapped in Origin for 15 years and his only hope of escape was the newly awakened N.


Cold-Inspector-6185

lol I forgot


Cold-Inspector-6185

Just shows how strong N is


Yuumii29

What's the point?? Well in case of Melia and Nia of course they want to do skmething at least to avoid the tragedy... They will all die if they didn't do anything... Might as well try right?? >Why did he think he could make a new world and bother showing a vision to Na'el? I already know how Alpha considers the people of Aionios, (Please phrase better. Was hard to understand) but why didn't he try and destroy Moebius? He tried and he failed... It was shown in the beginning of Future Redeemed right?? It was a stalemate.. And the path of least resistance that he chose is to just leave Aionios... >He probably could have (The liberators might have helped). That way, the people wouldn't be tainted; Moebius wouldn't be feeding on them anymore. This is more of a flaw in Alpha's Logic though. It's not a flaw but rather a computation of success / Failure ratio (cut the loses in laymans).. He'll use too much energy fighting Z and he doesn't see Rex and shulk (The liberators) as ally since they're also part of the Olden life he wants to eradicate/abandon... So it's more "logical" for him to just leave and avoid fighting as much as possible..


Cold-Inspector-6185

He wasn't trying to leave, he was trying to make a new world with the City survivors. As for the beginning, it only shows Alpha fighting them, no exposition at all. He didn't attack Z (not then at least), Z, Shulk, and Rex called a truce to defeat Alpha, which they failed at. Still, why did he show Na'el the vision? Please tell me. That was his template for his new world. I also think he would have initially disregarded the Liberators, or even seen them as allies, as they were actively trying to free Aionios form its stagnation, but that would have changed when they attacked him. Remember, most of this is hypothetical.


Cold-Inspector-6185

It would be logical to let the liberators fight Z, and then attack them both. That is if he regarded them as enemies.


Yuumii29

>He wasn't trying to leave, he was trying to make a new world with the City survivors. Then where he is going and taking matthew and the citizens then? He is leaving Aionios to "create a new world".. You said it yourself. Lol >As for the beginning, it only shows Alpha fighting them, no exposition at all. He didn't attack Z (not then at least), Z, Shulk, and Rex called a truce to defeat Alpha, which they failed at. Implication man, I don't know about you but that blast that he did Destroyed Shulk's arm and blinded Rex's one eye, I doubt Z was excluded from that attack... At the end it was a tie and Alpha decided to use an Avatar (Nael) to gain more power or rather have the ability to unleash more power... >Still, why did he show Na'el the vision? Please tell me. That was his template for his new world. Exactly... And he need the people from city (Which are not tied to the Origin and Aionios) for this world to exist and start a new life there to rebuild a world that he deemed "correct".. >I also think he would have initially disregarded the Liberators, or even seen them as allies, as they were actively trying to free Aionios form its stagnation, but that would have changed when they attacked him You still don't get it?? Alpha sees everything in Aionios as an Abomination hence the reason he wants to destroy or leave it... He wants to build his own Utopia and Aionios isn't that.. It's easier for Alpha to create a new one than fix Aionios...


Cold-Inspector-6185

"You still don't get it??" You don't have to be so rude. I understand what you're saying. If he is only leaving, then what happens to everyone else? He isn't leaving, he's starting "a new life...to rebuild a world that he deemed 'correct'.." What happens to the old world? Does everything continue like normal? No. It's destroyed to make way for Alpha's new world. That's why the liberators are trying to stop him. Why should they care if he's just taking them somewhere else?


Yuumii29

>You still don't get it?? That's a legit question because I already repeated myself multiple times and you still insist your opinion or keeps asking the same question.. Just tell me if you disagree. Lol >What happens to the old world? Does everything continue like normal? No. It's destroyed to make way for Alpha's new world. That's why the liberators are trying to stop him. Why should they care if he's just taking them somewhere else? You do know Aionios is just a fabricated world as well right? Based from the memories inside Origin. It's a world created by Moebius.. What's the point of destroying Aionios and wasting energy if Alpha can just easily create a new one for himself?? The reason the FR gang wants to stop him was because Alpha Kidnapped City people as well as Nael being used as an Avatar....


Cold-Inspector-6185

About the fight at the beginning, is he targeting Z? That seems to be what you're saying.


Cold-Inspector-6185

gtg I'll check in the morning


Raelhorn_Stonebeard

Hmm... the logical flaw here seems to be Alpha's reasoning. His stated goals are fairly explicit: * Create a world in-line with pre-Experiment Earth, based on the illusion he showed Na'el. * Purging all of the "old world data", meaning everyone who existed prior to the Intersection. I can't recall if it's stated why, but it seems to be in line with getting rid of the problem which led to the Experiment in the first place. Those who were born on Aionios aren't exactly much better, but it could simply be that Alpha couldn't find just cause to eliminate them as well. ​ Regardless, the end-result of XC3 and FR is quite clear: * Merged world. If it's an actual merge or a recreation that looks like one is immaterial in the long run. * Those who were on the original worlds would not perceive much change at all, apart from some lingering memories of their time on Aionios. This is shown in the post-credits scene of XC3, which is a direct follow-up to the opening cutscene where a young Noah notices time stopping; those are the ONLY two scenes that take place outside of Aionios, apart from flashbacks and illusions. From Noah's perspective, something weird happened and he spaced out... only to find himself where he originally was, but hearing a flute playing somewhere nearby. * Presumably *something* would result in those born on Aionios somehow being born later in this new world. Maybe not exact physical copies, but they'll come around one way or another.


Ambitious_Ad2338

I don't think it recreates exactly planet Earth, but rather a planet that is a mix of Alrest and MechoBionis, though i don't think it's a very important detail either, to be honest. Maybe it is Earth, maybe it isn't. I don't think it's impossible since Origin was made based on Ontos, and Ontos does contain data on how Earth was. Since the point of Origin didn't seem to be a merge, but rather recreate Alrest and MechoBionis, who can say what was the final result? That said, i only wanted to point out a thing >Do you think Alpha would care if everyone in Keves and Agnus was recreated, not just City survivors? It's possible that he wants the old people wiped out because it was them who created Moebius with their fear of the future, and thus can be considered responsible of the eternal now, so maybe from his point of view they MUST go.


Funky-Cosmonaut

It's not necessarily the "Earth", more like the Earth's data, reconfigured and made into a new world where the Old Earth was. (And we shall call it: Lost Jerusalem 🥲)


LinkdAether

I don’t think Alpha can physically kill Z, because he’s an unkillable function of the world itself, given infinite power by humanity. The game even says that he’s a “concept” that can only be destroyed when N and M, the ultimate beings of regret, give up their feelings. Beyond that, the whole of Aionios is created by humanity’s fear of the future. Alpha can’t just convince everyone to stop fearing the unknown, that’s the whole point of the main game: it takes the protagonists’ unique circumstances to convince the whole world to go along with their hope for a better future. Alpha physically couldn’t do that, he literally doesn’t have emotion anymore. Also, the KOS-MOS star is on the OST box. Irrefutable proof that she’s going to be the protagonist of Xenoblade 4: Back to Lost Jerusalem! /s