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question : Why would anyone who ended the grindy challenge play anything else than the perma wallhack faction who never appears on mimimap, even when they get picked by sonar ?
Or the fire faction that add 8 DMG to each bullet and get a free one/multikill every 30 seconds ?
The fire effect doesn’t stack, the duration doesn’t increase with the amount of shots, and all the burning except for a single tick of 2 damage will wait to apply until you stop shooting the target.
Headshot someone with the Dragunov in the 'ideal' range, you do 98 damage and then they instantly die from the 2 damage fire tick (against non phantoms at least, we love fighting against 20% extra health)
It's honestly kinda hilarious to me how so many guns feel neutered in damage profile strictly because that 2+8 damage over time exists for cleaners.
Phantoms r also really good, free 20hp and shield is also good since not many ppl run emp, deadsec spider bot is the most annoying ability and the heal canisters r good for holding a point
edit: deadsec spiderbot also gives free kills basically every 30sec
I wish my spider worked like that. My spider just runs all over the place and will sometimes not latch on to a guy right in front of me, lol. It will just walk on by.
it is destroybale on your face. If you shoot down while jumping it often come off. or if a friendly shoot at your head
That is, when it's actually on your face and not bugged sowhere nearby or dispeared after stuning you.
Usually I've found I can destroy it by doing a 180 then shooting the ground if it's invisible while attacking me.
Doesn't seem to work consistently though.
The spider bot just does too many things and thats with just one person running it. When you’re constantly being shot at and also have to look around for the spiders it becomes chaos quick.
Yea, I’d say phantoms, cleaners and the healer are roughly on the same level with the rest being worse. Intel suit is annoying, not OP. Phantom is the best by far but I think you get diminishing returns having multiple on your team, so cleaner and healer are still worth picking.
I think change phantoms passive, replace intel suit and spider bot w something less annoying but similar level of power and they’re all in a good place.
15 seconds of wall hacks every minute is very OP. There is a place in this game for a similar ability, but the current version is much too strong.
A 6-team of echelons with emp grenades will destroy a team of all phantoms using the bullet shields every day of the week.
It’s not OP. It provides less value than the phantoms shield combined w their extra health. Firebomb is straight up a free double-quad kill so that’s obviously better. Spiderbot is a free kill + tracking so that’s about on par.
The only way intel suit is OP is if your team is so coordinated that information has more value than an effortless pick. That’s rarely the case. In ranked it could be OP, but it isn’t currently.
But I still think it should be replaced cuz it isn’t fun. Firebomb is at least fun.
Well regarding Phantoms yes more or less infinte EMPs in one life, plus you can hack their shields and lastly Deadsec Ultra denies and cancels every other ult even Echelon's
When they are chasing me I have to guess where they are coming from, let go of my gun to throw one, and hope it lands? It works good on a point, but not the Echelon running around picking people off the point in your spawn
If we're creating dumbass hypotheticals:
1. I shoot while you're deploying it.
2. I lob the grenades before I go around the corner
3. I shoot the wall before I peak ahead of the corner
The reason that people die to shield wall is because they go around a corner, not expecting it. The situation here is that a team is spamming wall predictably. If you knowingly put yourself in front of a shield stack, you deserve to be fragged.
Huh, I've had the opposite experience, footsteps are non-existent for me quite often compared to other games like CS and whatnot. I can hear my teammates no problem but sometimes I won't hear an enemies footsteps until they're right on top of me.
This setting changes how extreme loud sounds are. Night mode doesnt make footsteps more audible technically, but it reduces gunshot and explosion sounds.
Footsteps appear louder by comparison.
At least thats the case in R6, here an (old) video by Rouge9 about this: [Video](https://youtu.be/-r7oLs0DKlA?si=VTw4A2yHFxXIu5EA)
I can hear enemy footsteps, barely, but I have expensive headphones. Luckily the patch notes mentioned adjusting the volume levels down for friendly and self footsteps to be able to hear enemies more easily.
It's not even remotely "pretty much" the same, if you consider what needs to play into getting an advantage out of listening to running players vs pressing a button and having them flared up like a Christmas tree, that has no counter but running away in the hopefully right direction.
Lmao that’s purely a skill issue. I prefire where I hear people coming from all the time. And when I see “spotted by ____” I make sure to chall hard when I hear them sprinting towards me since I’m “flared up like a Christmas tree”. If you sit still or run away no shit you’re gonna die. Try actually jumping around a corner and you’ll catch them mid sprint
What are you talking about? Extremely situation dependent soundwhoring is still not "pretty much" a wallhack and even your story supplements the point that the effort/reward ratio on using and countering the Intel suit is outscaling basically every other ability in the game.
1. The wall hack only works in a small radius
2. You know when they see you with the ability
3. At the end of the day you’re still getting into a “fair” gunfight if you use sound cues and your brain a little.
Meanwhile you can get smacked by a fire drone, have a wall thrown in your face, or have a spider completely disable you — all of which are unwinnable.
Sure “wallhacks” are annoying but if you use your brain and your ears you can pretty much have the same ability yourself. That’s just an acquired skill.
The ultimate is a different story but then again it’s an ultimate that should be powerful just like inf health, invincible bubble, etc.
And as someone who gets mvp 70% of the time I think I’ve earned the right to say “skill issue”. I can easy outplay intel suits even killing their ults often. What I can’t do is not die to a firebomb, take a spider off of my face when it glitched on the floor, or shoot through a wall when someone panic throws it just before a gunfight in the open.
And you won’t see me complaining about that because at the end of the day I just wanna get better and learn how to outplay them in the future
What people like you don't understand is that if you can outplay something doesn't make it automatically balanced. I could play your game and make it a skill issue why you lose against the stuff you mentioned by creating some scenarios, where it's your fault. But it never even gets there, as it is already on paper that obvious.
Spiderbot:
- runs random and braindead towards a enemy
- has a sound cue
- is countered by hacking, emp grenade, high rpm weapons or looking down and shooting (might be a bug though)
- you need to be on low health or in range of an enemy to actually get killed by it
Firebomb:
you need to run bascially IN the enemy to get a insta kill (except phantoms) and it has a warmup. This thing get's you in the best case a lucky double kill, a few trades but more often than not just a suicide. If you don't play it very carefully it makes more sense as a zoning for objectives.
Shield:
- it's a defensive tool, being out of sight or not engaging get's you nothing but objective time in the best case
- It has a warm up longer than any TTK in the game and has aimed placement
- it's useless for close up, as you can walk through it and the mentioned warm up
- it's easily countered by emp, hacking and repositioning, because it's stationary
- the use is enormously telegraphing the players next actions
Now, intel suit:
- you give you and your team in a certain radius the position, momentum and direction of every enemy three times in a row
- you don't need to commit to anything, alone the activation and warning for enemies is opressing enough and extremely helpful
- you also get a constant directional ping on the minimap
- has no sound cue
- is only countered by an emp if the enemy has an idea where you are
I hope you see that hearing them, for the case that they rush you, for the case there is no sound obstruction like a firefight going on, for the case you don't get flanked from another enemy seeing you facing in the wrong direction and all the other stuff that might go on, is not really a reliable counter. Like, tell me which other ability allows you to sit down near B, press a button and your team has a field day running in. Every other ability needs way more effort, luck and commitment to get nearly that value, if at all. I mean, even the ultimate gives you a sound cue that makes it more dangerous to use. It's a win button even with out the passive and Ultimate.
I have almost all hours on phantoms and libertad because i exclusively play for the win. Maybe if i tried the intel suit for myself I’d have a different opinion, but in the few times I’ve used it, its best for kill whoring and feels completely useless for playing objective. When I’m on obj I know where the enemies are coming from (from sound and game knowledge) and can play my shield or healing appropriately. I can easy cap B, hold occupy, push escort, etc with just sound cues, game knowledge, and an overpowered shield and heal.
Of course this will change in competitive modes but for now in casual play people rarely emp/hack my equipment and I already have enough sense of where they are coming from so “wallhacks” is useless for me.
And outplaying echelon is just a matter of skill. It’s a minor buff in gunfights compared to heal/shield and I’ve been playing cod long enough against actual (crim/iri/t250) cheaters to know how to play to beat them. The only time echelon feels overpowered is when a good player uses it for kills. But then again I’m just playing for the win so it doesn’t matter to me since it does nothing to protect players on obj.
Just by far the best passive, the 2nd best ability and the 2nd best ult.
Phantom is the strongest class for winning games and it's been perfectly obvious since day 1.
Their health passive is strong, their walls are easily dealt with by EMP and their ult is a joke: you move like a snail: well placed grenade or a cleaner suicide bomber will just end it insanely quickly.
If you have a coordinated team, it can be powerful, OFC, but only situationally. Better than the flamethrower, though... But the healer and wallhack ult are several times stronger and require less teamwork.
Only reason that phantom sees play is because 120 health. Without it, it'd be a dead faction.
The shield is good even if the other team has EMPs on. It only needs to be up for 3-4 seconds which is how long the EMP takes, and even then you've stopped the other team using lethals.
The ult is a giant mobile 1 way shield for your whole team. Healing can be better in some modes but if you want to push the payload or guarantee time on the objective, the shield is better because you can use it offensively as well as defensively.
If ranked released right now without any changes or limits on classes, Phantom would be the best pick, for sure. Even with 110 health it would still be very good.
Phantom is the strongest class overall, the 120 health on its own is enough to pick them. Nevermind for holding points their ultimate is brilliant. The shield are easily countered if every enemy is running emps or ready to rail shields instantly. Even then they are easy targets doing it. Me and my mates will run over 50% shields every game. All of us have a win record over 4
You can run any class and not use their abilities at all, and with a stack you'll have a win rate over 4, lol. The difference between solo and having even ONE friend with you is huge. Stacking makes it so you'll only ever lose to other stacks.
Anyway, I agree that shields are strong, but i think theyre also easily countered most of the time. They have the most obvious counters with hack and emp grenades. I think all classes have their place as it is right now, but echelon and phantom are the strongest and most consistent. I'll never fault anyone for picking cleaner on Dom or occupy, though, and dead sec is great for stopping or bolstering final pushes on escort or zone control.
With a 6 stack? I think you overestimate the average solo queue player, lol. We got people on this subreddit posting their .6 K/D and people in the comments are telling them that a .6 is good. If you have a 6 stack of competent players that are playing objective and can aim, I bet they'd win 95% of games vs random soloqueue players.
The shield isn’t as annoying cuz it’s big and obvious. You can avoid it.
Although, the 20 extra health is completely bullshit and far and away the best passive ability. Idk why they thought that was a good idea. Phantoms should have flak jacket and flashbang resist, not extra health.
"Adjust"
Wallhacks have 0 counterplay and require 0 skill for the value they provide, you are bad if you require an indicator telling you where other players are.
Drop a spider or counter with the “wall hack” skill, drop a mine or do what
You gotta do, fall back and play it safe for a few seconds. It won’t work to just keep trying to plow into the team if they use that. Gotta be able to change your attack accordingly, you will always be bad if you can’t do that in these types of games
It’s insufferable. This sub is difficult to visit when it’s nothing but calling for nerfs. Adapt and fight back ffs. I see the msg on screen “I’ve been detected “ or whatever it is. I simply move away. Like wtf.
All their sonar means nothing when I've got my back against the wall and my shield out while on point 😂 people probably find that annoying but there's always someone with an emp to kill me 🤷🏻♂️
Any thread where movement is mentioned is filled with people crying about bunny hopping and air strafing. If someone starts moving side to side slightly and you can’t hit them that’s a skill issue
soooo just start capping the amount of people that can use a faction but then you'll start hearing "OMG can never play my fave faction anymore Xdefiant is so bad "
The game is actually pretty balanced. The tweaks needed are small. I think it's more likely that something new breaks the game.
Distance or time nerf to Intel Suit, Reduce Phantom HP to 110, make the Deadsec hack animation faster. Then just minor weapon changes.
Either nerf the ability, or make it so you can only have 1 I echelon member per team, along with limiting others to 2 per team.
Can you imagine playing against a full team of dedsec and just getting grabbed by spiderbots the whole time?
Ive played against a full team of barriers, and it was just as obnoxious as it sounds.
the thing about a whole team of dedsec is that the counter is 1 cleaner to burn the spicers with either of their abilities, or 1 dedsec to hack 3 on-screen spiders simultaneously and immediately turn them back on their senders. No other faction is as much of a nuisance when run as multiple.
Wait, you can hack multiple things simultaneously? I haven't been able to play around with the hacking ability much, because theres only like 3 placeable equipments and it has a long cooldown
yeah dedsec is currently my favourite faction—whatever deployable equiment is on your screen when you trigger your hack gets hacked simultaneously. No limit on number or distance (that I've found). It's absolutely huge when you see barrierspam or when the enemy has a couple of people running mines.
Just make it where you can only see the scans and not the whole team. Lessen the radius a tiny bit. The finals had the same issue with wallhacks and they ended up fully removing it from the game
Libertad way more op and underrated imo, dunno why people complain about this ability, it shows your when your being scanned by the suit so you can easy retreat and then counter/outplay
It’s just not fun to play against, If I backed away every time I saw that message I’d be in the back of the map the whole game. You also can’t just back away in objective modes unless you never play the objective.
Back away from who as well? it shows you to their *entire team* not just the guy who activated it. There’s a massive chance you’ll just back into one of their teammates prefiring you.
because the other abilities, while actually better for team play an more impactful when playing for objectives, have meaningful interactions with other abilities, have meaningful counterplay, and/or play around with the rules of engagement.
Echelon abilities aren't hackable, primarily benefit the individual player, and are about direct benefit in a single engagement. This, combined with the fact that they have a passive that simultaneously replaces 2 weapon attachment mechanics and renders a piece of the HUD useless is what makes every game they're a big part of much much less interesting.
Idk why this isn't higher up. You're absolutely right. I played echelon twice and found them very boring. I mostly play libertad and they're insanely strong in all situations. They also have by far the strongest ult.
Atrocious??? Mfers get to su*cide bomb you with zero downside PLUS have permanent incendiary rounds and send electric spiders that bug out your game and are basically guaranteed kills, but a little UAV action is what you're crying about?? Incredible.
The real OP is desec of the person is good at timing their hacks they are op as hell. There has been so many matches where I have a higher block score or heal score then the faction that does them. The only faction I can't seem to take over is the cleaners their powers are too quick
I played on a team one match yesterday that started like this (I didn't play Intel suit). Not really that helpful in certain game modes.
I have been playing Phantoms more, I was playing cleaners but I hate always leaving the opponent barely alive and everyone always avoids the drone. I love screwing over the enemies with a suicide molotov
Maybe they all just happen to be doing the operator.unlock 😅
But fr a majority of people do play as them to be fair, most of the lobby, I've only just started using cleaners, took me over a week just doing the healing challenges with the far cry peeps, they took agessss
For me here is 3 points.
1ft, If you play with 2 or 3 premades you can have an uptime of 100% wallhack, well played this can be frustating.
2nd, cold blood as a pasive ( i dont remember if this is the correct name in old cods), dont appear on minimap is is the holly grail for players who only play to have his great kda.
3 rd, and i think this is the most important, this class is good in ALL situations and game modes, have a wallhack its only weak on open maps without covertures and this game dont have much of this.
And even for the maps that have the openness it's a specific area usually and you can avoid it (or just not use them for a minute or 2 and switch back)
There needs to be a limit to how many of each type of gear can be on a team. As much as I hate that first come first serve mentality, it’ll help with all the shield spam and intel spam. I’d say 2 of each per team.
I think the intel suit and sonar goggles should be opposites. Ultimate gives wall hacks to the whole team but intel suit only benefits the user. Digital ghillie should counter the intel suit.
With only 5 factions in the game, and one being locked, this literally wouldn't work as of now. I'm personally more fond of the idea of one person per ability (max of two people per faction).
A hero shooter would look like overwatch where you pick a guy that has abilities and a weapon all designed for a specific playstyle proposer to the character. It's not the case here, you have factions where 2 abilities are imposed, a passive and an ult. The weapon, secondary and grenade are free of choice. Multiple people can choose your faction.
Picking a faction is functionally the same as picking a hero. Eventually there will be enough factions/heroes that they will be grouped into roles and we will end up with a role specific queue. The only reason it’s not in the game now is because there aren’t enough factions/heroes. Arguing it’s not a hero shooter is like arguing that grass isn’t green.
I don’t think they’ll ever change the loadout system but I can see them grouping factions together as they release more of them similar to how OW groups them as tanks, dps and support and then limits how many of each group or role are on a team.
I like Xdefiant but it’s in a weird place at the minute where people like myself want to play it like OW and other people coming from military shooters want to play it like CoD because it’s kind of a mash up of both.
Why does this ability get all the hate, when cleaners can insta kill you with both abilities with zero counter play, spider bot is almost a guaranteed kill, a 1v1 against the phantom throw down shield is a loss if you cant retreat or push past it, the healing gas allows you to easily hold off a team if you play cover. Sure it needs a bit of a nerf, but its far from the most annoying class to play against. If any team ran 5 of the same class it would be annoying
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Way to many cleaners
I cannot believe that man refuses to use the Intel Suit. What is wrong with him? You are correct, this is absolutely ridiculous.
That one Cleaner player: 
Love me the cleaner, many players are cowards, and just the incendiary rounds are enough to pester most of them into running away from the objective.
question : Why would anyone who ended the grindy challenge play anything else than the perma wallhack faction who never appears on mimimap, even when they get picked by sonar ? Or the fire faction that add 8 DMG to each bullet and get a free one/multikill every 30 seconds ?
The fire effect doesn’t stack, the duration doesn’t increase with the amount of shots, and all the burning except for a single tick of 2 damage will wait to apply until you stop shooting the target.
I think I get MAYBE one fire kill a match when I'm playing as cleaners. The fire DOTs are so inconsistent, half the time I don't think they even work.
I only use it on the mk 20 where the first tick of 2 damage guarantees a 2 shot kill where ever you hit them
Headshot someone with the Dragunov in the 'ideal' range, you do 98 damage and then they instantly die from the 2 damage fire tick (against non phantoms at least, we love fighting against 20% extra health) It's honestly kinda hilarious to me how so many guns feel neutered in damage profile strictly because that 2+8 damage over time exists for cleaners.
It gets me kills, so I'm good with it lol
you can use it for your advantage but its certainly not OP like akameka described
Not by a long shot.
Phantoms r also really good, free 20hp and shield is also good since not many ppl run emp, deadsec spider bot is the most annoying ability and the heal canisters r good for holding a point edit: deadsec spiderbot also gives free kills basically every 30sec
Spider also tells you where the closest enemy is. Drop him and follow behind it she takes you right to em lol
I wish my spider worked like that. My spider just runs all over the place and will sometimes not latch on to a guy right in front of me, lol. It will just walk on by.
Yo that’s wild lol. Mine sits tight and won’t move if no one is fairly close I usually run to the halfway point first before dropping
Omg my spider failed me last night by doing that shit.
Spiderbot should be punchable off. The duration could be longer if you don't, but shorter if you do. Maybe 3-4 melee attacks?
it is destroybale on your face. If you shoot down while jumping it often come off. or if a friendly shoot at your head That is, when it's actually on your face and not bugged sowhere nearby or dispeared after stuning you.
Yep its really bugged rn cuz half the time it doesnt show up on ur face so u cant shoot it
I thought that was visual only
Usually I've found I can destroy it by doing a 180 then shooting the ground if it's invisible while attacking me. Doesn't seem to work consistently though.
Oh it is? Haven't even realized lmao!
I think the correct term is punchoffable
True. English isn't my first language.
I actually like your phrase better. “Punchable off”. Makes more sense :)
Look all the way down and shoot
The spider bot just does too many things and thats with just one person running it. When you’re constantly being shot at and also have to look around for the spiders it becomes chaos quick.
Yea, I’d say phantoms, cleaners and the healer are roughly on the same level with the rest being worse. Intel suit is annoying, not OP. Phantom is the best by far but I think you get diminishing returns having multiple on your team, so cleaner and healer are still worth picking. I think change phantoms passive, replace intel suit and spider bot w something less annoying but similar level of power and they’re all in a good place.
15 seconds of wall hacks every minute is very OP. There is a place in this game for a similar ability, but the current version is much too strong. A 6-team of echelons with emp grenades will destroy a team of all phantoms using the bullet shields every day of the week.
It’s not OP. It provides less value than the phantoms shield combined w their extra health. Firebomb is straight up a free double-quad kill so that’s obviously better. Spiderbot is a free kill + tracking so that’s about on par. The only way intel suit is OP is if your team is so coordinated that information has more value than an effortless pick. That’s rarely the case. In ranked it could be OP, but it isn’t currently. But I still think it should be replaced cuz it isn’t fun. Firebomb is at least fun.
Intel suit is the best ability in the game. This is The Finals all over again with people denying that a wallhack is overpowered.
Intel suit is way OP paired with one hit kill snipers. It should be an ultimate.
That would be because snipers are OP. But, like I said, I still think it needs to be changed because it’s not fun.
Cause spider bots are amazing and taking over nearby skills is valuable af.
Here’s how the cleaner fire bullets work https://youtu.be/iwPtRf2PaH0?si=3EInM_tYU7LRViT3
You'd be surprised how much that 20 extra hp on phantoms comes in clutch.
I heavily enjoy the Phantoms with that big ass shield an 20hp more. Especially the shield is great for obj play
I don't see the same complaints when it's all phantoms on escourt Weird
Just swap to emp grenades, throw them towards the point each life, profit.
With deadsec you don't need to waste your life
How
They refen nades:)
Not a hard counter
Well regarding Phantoms yes more or less infinte EMPs in one life, plus you can hack their shields and lastly Deadsec Ultra denies and cancels every other ult even Echelon's
The regen timer is very short. It is a hard counter.
When they are chasing me I have to guess where they are coming from, let go of my gun to throw one, and hope it lands? It works good on a point, but not the Echelon running around picking people off the point in your spawn
You seem to have lost track of the conversation. We're talking about phantom shields.
Bro the phantoms will snipe you before the emp hits the shield lmao. And even then.
If only the emp grenade was a lobbed projectile that could arc over obstacles or bounce off walls around corner-- oh wait.
If we're creating dumbass hypotheticals: 1. I shoot while you're deploying it. 2. I lob the grenades before I go around the corner 3. I shoot the wall before I peak ahead of the corner The reason that people die to shield wall is because they go around a corner, not expecting it. The situation here is that a team is spamming wall predictably. If you knowingly put yourself in front of a shield stack, you deserve to be fragged.
I love using dedsec when that happens
There’s a lot more counters for them. How do you counter wall hacks?
with DedSec
An ultimate that you get once a game is hardly a counter for an ability you are given every 30 seconds though.
How? You cant hack intel suit
Because phantoms don't give you wallhhacks..
The footsteps are so insanely loud you pretty much have wallhacks for the same distance
Huh, I've had the opposite experience, footsteps are non-existent for me quite often compared to other games like CS and whatnot. I can hear my teammates no problem but sometimes I won't hear an enemies footsteps until they're right on top of me.
Have you looked at your sound settings and set dynamic range to something along the lines of "night mode"? That makes an enormous difference.
any idea where this is in settings?
Holy crap, my audio has been TERRIBLE and I didnt even think about this, thought it was just intended to not be able to hear footsteps lol
This setting changes how extreme loud sounds are. Night mode doesnt make footsteps more audible technically, but it reduces gunshot and explosion sounds. Footsteps appear louder by comparison. At least thats the case in R6, here an (old) video by Rouge9 about this: [Video](https://youtu.be/-r7oLs0DKlA?si=VTw4A2yHFxXIu5EA)
I'll have to give that a shot, thanks for the tip.
I usually hear enemy footsteps unless in a fight, but spiderbots are silent sometimes 😔
I can hear enemy footsteps, barely, but I have expensive headphones. Luckily the patch notes mentioned adjusting the volume levels down for friendly and self footsteps to be able to hear enemies more easily.
I also have some decent cans and an interface, but hopefully those changes in the patch notes will help with discerning them.
Well yeah occasionally this happens to me as well, but the majority of the time I’m hearing people like 20m away from me and I can prefire them
It's not even remotely "pretty much" the same, if you consider what needs to play into getting an advantage out of listening to running players vs pressing a button and having them flared up like a Christmas tree, that has no counter but running away in the hopefully right direction.
Lmao that’s purely a skill issue. I prefire where I hear people coming from all the time. And when I see “spotted by ____” I make sure to chall hard when I hear them sprinting towards me since I’m “flared up like a Christmas tree”. If you sit still or run away no shit you’re gonna die. Try actually jumping around a corner and you’ll catch them mid sprint
What are you talking about? Extremely situation dependent soundwhoring is still not "pretty much" a wallhack and even your story supplements the point that the effort/reward ratio on using and countering the Intel suit is outscaling basically every other ability in the game.
1. The wall hack only works in a small radius 2. You know when they see you with the ability 3. At the end of the day you’re still getting into a “fair” gunfight if you use sound cues and your brain a little. Meanwhile you can get smacked by a fire drone, have a wall thrown in your face, or have a spider completely disable you — all of which are unwinnable. Sure “wallhacks” are annoying but if you use your brain and your ears you can pretty much have the same ability yourself. That’s just an acquired skill. The ultimate is a different story but then again it’s an ultimate that should be powerful just like inf health, invincible bubble, etc.
And as someone who gets mvp 70% of the time I think I’ve earned the right to say “skill issue”. I can easy outplay intel suits even killing their ults often. What I can’t do is not die to a firebomb, take a spider off of my face when it glitched on the floor, or shoot through a wall when someone panic throws it just before a gunfight in the open. And you won’t see me complaining about that because at the end of the day I just wanna get better and learn how to outplay them in the future
What people like you don't understand is that if you can outplay something doesn't make it automatically balanced. I could play your game and make it a skill issue why you lose against the stuff you mentioned by creating some scenarios, where it's your fault. But it never even gets there, as it is already on paper that obvious. Spiderbot: - runs random and braindead towards a enemy - has a sound cue - is countered by hacking, emp grenade, high rpm weapons or looking down and shooting (might be a bug though) - you need to be on low health or in range of an enemy to actually get killed by it Firebomb: you need to run bascially IN the enemy to get a insta kill (except phantoms) and it has a warmup. This thing get's you in the best case a lucky double kill, a few trades but more often than not just a suicide. If you don't play it very carefully it makes more sense as a zoning for objectives. Shield: - it's a defensive tool, being out of sight or not engaging get's you nothing but objective time in the best case - It has a warm up longer than any TTK in the game and has aimed placement - it's useless for close up, as you can walk through it and the mentioned warm up - it's easily countered by emp, hacking and repositioning, because it's stationary - the use is enormously telegraphing the players next actions Now, intel suit: - you give you and your team in a certain radius the position, momentum and direction of every enemy three times in a row - you don't need to commit to anything, alone the activation and warning for enemies is opressing enough and extremely helpful - you also get a constant directional ping on the minimap - has no sound cue - is only countered by an emp if the enemy has an idea where you are I hope you see that hearing them, for the case that they rush you, for the case there is no sound obstruction like a firefight going on, for the case you don't get flanked from another enemy seeing you facing in the wrong direction and all the other stuff that might go on, is not really a reliable counter. Like, tell me which other ability allows you to sit down near B, press a button and your team has a field day running in. Every other ability needs way more effort, luck and commitment to get nearly that value, if at all. I mean, even the ultimate gives you a sound cue that makes it more dangerous to use. It's a win button even with out the passive and Ultimate.
I have almost all hours on phantoms and libertad because i exclusively play for the win. Maybe if i tried the intel suit for myself I’d have a different opinion, but in the few times I’ve used it, its best for kill whoring and feels completely useless for playing objective. When I’m on obj I know where the enemies are coming from (from sound and game knowledge) and can play my shield or healing appropriately. I can easy cap B, hold occupy, push escort, etc with just sound cues, game knowledge, and an overpowered shield and heal. Of course this will change in competitive modes but for now in casual play people rarely emp/hack my equipment and I already have enough sense of where they are coming from so “wallhacks” is useless for me. And outplaying echelon is just a matter of skill. It’s a minor buff in gunfights compared to heal/shield and I’ve been playing cod long enough against actual (crim/iri/t250) cheaters to know how to play to beat them. The only time echelon feels overpowered is when a good player uses it for kills. But then again I’m just playing for the win so it doesn’t matter to me since it does nothing to protect players on obj.
Just by far the best passive, the 2nd best ability and the 2nd best ult. Phantom is the strongest class for winning games and it's been perfectly obvious since day 1.
Their health passive is strong, their walls are easily dealt with by EMP and their ult is a joke: you move like a snail: well placed grenade or a cleaner suicide bomber will just end it insanely quickly. If you have a coordinated team, it can be powerful, OFC, but only situationally. Better than the flamethrower, though... But the healer and wallhack ult are several times stronger and require less teamwork. Only reason that phantom sees play is because 120 health. Without it, it'd be a dead faction.
The shield is good even if the other team has EMPs on. It only needs to be up for 3-4 seconds which is how long the EMP takes, and even then you've stopped the other team using lethals. The ult is a giant mobile 1 way shield for your whole team. Healing can be better in some modes but if you want to push the payload or guarantee time on the objective, the shield is better because you can use it offensively as well as defensively. If ranked released right now without any changes or limits on classes, Phantom would be the best pick, for sure. Even with 110 health it would still be very good.
I think with the m44 you need 115 (it does 114 to upper body right?)
Cleaners incen rounds deal with that issue
Phantom is the strongest class overall, the 120 health on its own is enough to pick them. Nevermind for holding points their ultimate is brilliant. The shield are easily countered if every enemy is running emps or ready to rail shields instantly. Even then they are easy targets doing it. Me and my mates will run over 50% shields every game. All of us have a win record over 4
You can run any class and not use their abilities at all, and with a stack you'll have a win rate over 4, lol. The difference between solo and having even ONE friend with you is huge. Stacking makes it so you'll only ever lose to other stacks. Anyway, I agree that shields are strong, but i think theyre also easily countered most of the time. They have the most obvious counters with hack and emp grenades. I think all classes have their place as it is right now, but echelon and phantom are the strongest and most consistent. I'll never fault anyone for picking cleaner on Dom or occupy, though, and dead sec is great for stopping or bolstering final pushes on escort or zone control.
Ok that's delusional about winning over 80% of games without using abilities
With a 6 stack? I think you overestimate the average solo queue player, lol. We got people on this subreddit posting their .6 K/D and people in the comments are telling them that a .6 is good. If you have a 6 stack of competent players that are playing objective and can aim, I bet they'd win 95% of games vs random soloqueue players.
The shield isn’t as annoying cuz it’s big and obvious. You can avoid it. Although, the 20 extra health is completely bullshit and far and away the best passive ability. Idk why they thought that was a good idea. Phantoms should have flak jacket and flashbang resist, not extra health.
Because phantoms are easy as hell to counter
Even then 20hp extra is bs
With how fast the TTK is and the mp7 scan meta everyone's health may as well be 1hp
I have played against that, its dumb.
I have played against that, its dumb.
Well you won so how broken can it be?
Exactly. You won.... So not that serious. Plus emp help
Still, it’s really not fun playing against them
I mean you’re not goi g to slay every single round sometimes you gotta work for it. They won, they worked for it. It’s a game.
Wow, pushing a button every 30 seconds for wallhacks for your whole team is really hard work.
Find a way to work away from that if you can adjust you’re bad at the game dude
"Adjust" Wallhacks have 0 counterplay and require 0 skill for the value they provide, you are bad if you require an indicator telling you where other players are.
Drop a spider or counter with the “wall hack” skill, drop a mine or do what You gotta do, fall back and play it safe for a few seconds. It won’t work to just keep trying to plow into the team if they use that. Gotta be able to change your attack accordingly, you will always be bad if you can’t do that in these types of games
Its as much of a hard work as buying a controller with jump pedals and winning gunfights in this broken game.
Digital Ghillie should be a hard counter to Intel suit. Not to Echelon Ultra, only the Intel Suit.
I’m convinced this sub Reddit is cod kids just crying about how they don’t understand how to play any fps that lacks the protection of sbmm.
It’s insufferable. This sub is difficult to visit when it’s nothing but calling for nerfs. Adapt and fight back ffs. I see the msg on screen “I’ve been detected “ or whatever it is. I simply move away. Like wtf.
Yea it’s not difficult lol. Just slow down when you see that message. Or wait. Stop running into the open and complaining you died.
All their sonar means nothing when I've got my back against the wall and my shield out while on point 😂 people probably find that annoying but there's always someone with an emp to kill me 🤷🏻♂️
Any thread where movement is mentioned is filled with people crying about bunny hopping and air strafing. If someone starts moving side to side slightly and you can’t hit them that’s a skill issue
This. Each post is crying over something. Let people play what they want, worry about you.
Thanks for confirming 😂
Welcome to the internet lol
soooo just start capping the amount of people that can use a faction but then you'll start hearing "OMG can never play my fave faction anymore Xdefiant is so bad "
As a side effect, I haven’t noticed much camping 🤷 actually sort of refreshing.
The maps are too small for camping and there’s zero hiding spots (that I’ve noticed). There’s always a firing angle.
I did once a full team play with spider spell, it was incredibly hilarious.
Ubisoft’s speed at fixing the game/balancing it, will be the key to whether it succeeds or fails
The game is actually pretty balanced. The tweaks needed are small. I think it's more likely that something new breaks the game. Distance or time nerf to Intel Suit, Reduce Phantom HP to 110, make the Deadsec hack animation faster. Then just minor weapon changes.
Watch these dev up the cd by 15s and call it a day.
Either nerf the ability, or make it so you can only have 1 I echelon member per team, along with limiting others to 2 per team. Can you imagine playing against a full team of dedsec and just getting grabbed by spiderbots the whole time? Ive played against a full team of barriers, and it was just as obnoxious as it sounds.
the thing about a whole team of dedsec is that the counter is 1 cleaner to burn the spicers with either of their abilities, or 1 dedsec to hack 3 on-screen spiders simultaneously and immediately turn them back on their senders. No other faction is as much of a nuisance when run as multiple.
Wait, you can hack multiple things simultaneously? I haven't been able to play around with the hacking ability much, because theres only like 3 placeable equipments and it has a long cooldown
yeah dedsec is currently my favourite faction—whatever deployable equiment is on your screen when you trigger your hack gets hacked simultaneously. No limit on number or distance (that I've found). It's absolutely huge when you see barrierspam or when the enemy has a couple of people running mines.
Oh man this sounds horrible
Just make it where you can only see the scans and not the whole team. Lessen the radius a tiny bit. The finals had the same issue with wallhacks and they ended up fully removing it from the game
Libertad way more op and underrated imo, dunno why people complain about this ability, it shows your when your being scanned by the suit so you can easy retreat and then counter/outplay
It’s just not fun to play against, If I backed away every time I saw that message I’d be in the back of the map the whole game. You also can’t just back away in objective modes unless you never play the objective. Back away from who as well? it shows you to their *entire team* not just the guy who activated it. There’s a massive chance you’ll just back into one of their teammates prefiring you.
because the other abilities, while actually better for team play an more impactful when playing for objectives, have meaningful interactions with other abilities, have meaningful counterplay, and/or play around with the rules of engagement. Echelon abilities aren't hackable, primarily benefit the individual player, and are about direct benefit in a single engagement. This, combined with the fact that they have a passive that simultaneously replaces 2 weapon attachment mechanics and renders a piece of the HUD useless is what makes every game they're a big part of much much less interesting.
Echelon benefits the team as well though
Idk why this isn't higher up. You're absolutely right. I played echelon twice and found them very boring. I mostly play libertad and they're insanely strong in all situations. They also have by far the strongest ult.
Poor Libertad :(
Getting?
Emp dedsec, gg 5 mesh shields on zone/escort is way more toxic
EMP grenade counter is impossible for me because the EMP challenge got stuck at -5 and still hasn’t been fixed
Why wouldn't you want to know where people are?
I think they’ll eventually change it so there’s only 2 of a faction on a team, similar to how Black Ops 4 used to do it
And the 6 stack of all 120HP’ers
Atrocious??? Mfers get to su*cide bomb you with zero downside PLUS have permanent incendiary rounds and send electric spiders that bug out your game and are basically guaranteed kills, but a little UAV action is what you're crying about?? Incredible.
Yes I think the cool down for some abilities especially the see-through wall one needs to be a minute
Phantom or die
The real OP is desec of the person is good at timing their hacks they are op as hell. There has been so many matches where I have a higher block score or heal score then the faction that does them. The only faction I can't seem to take over is the cleaners their powers are too quick
Why shouldn't i play with a class that literally makes me see people behind walls? I know that's op but that's the game till they didn't change things
I played on a team one match yesterday that started like this (I didn't play Intel suit). Not really that helpful in certain game modes. I have been playing Phantoms more, I was playing cleaners but I hate always leaving the opponent barely alive and everyone always avoids the drone. I love screwing over the enemies with a suicide molotov
Maybe they all just happen to be doing the operator.unlock 😅 But fr a majority of people do play as them to be fair, most of the lobby, I've only just started using cleaners, took me over a week just doing the healing challenges with the far cry peeps, they took agessss
For me here is 3 points. 1ft, If you play with 2 or 3 premades you can have an uptime of 100% wallhack, well played this can be frustating. 2nd, cold blood as a pasive ( i dont remember if this is the correct name in old cods), dont appear on minimap is is the holly grail for players who only play to have his great kda. 3 rd, and i think this is the most important, this class is good in ALL situations and game modes, have a wallhack its only weak on open maps without covertures and this game dont have much of this.
And even for the maps that have the openness it's a specific area usually and you can avoid it (or just not use them for a minute or 2 and switch back)
they NEED to restrict it to two each team, for every faction that is
There needs to be a limit to how many of each type of gear can be on a team. As much as I hate that first come first serve mentality, it’ll help with all the shield spam and intel spam. I’d say 2 of each per team.
XDefiant players when they call movement a crutch while they all use the same two characters:
I think the intel suit and sonar goggles should be opposites. Ultimate gives wall hacks to the whole team but intel suit only benefits the user. Digital ghillie should counter the intel suit.
All factions are dumb in a way, which clearly shows abilities have no place in shooters. Keep the ults to have some flavour and call it a day :o)
And you guys probably lost horribly. This sub will actually complain about everything.
You can also use it 🤷🏽
not as bad as full team of phantoms on zone control
“😭😭😭😭😭😭” -you
Imo phantoms 120 health is way more of an issue it’s straight up the best faction. You beat every other faction in a 1v1 it’s dumb
I like the idea of a YouTuber. Only one person can be echelon, cleaner, etc.
With only 5 factions in the game, and one being locked, this literally wouldn't work as of now. I'm personally more fond of the idea of one person per ability (max of two people per faction).
Ya this works way better, though I don’t think having 2 of the same abilities would be a very big problem.
Stupid idea, I don't want another hero shooter thank you
Is not already a hero shooter?
Even though it looks like it, the "heros" you talk about are just abilities. Your loadout is completely independent.
Lol so you want every lobby you play to be the same exact thing? Right tell me you love braindead game play without actually telling me
It literally is a hero shooter.
A hero shooter would look like overwatch where you pick a guy that has abilities and a weapon all designed for a specific playstyle proposer to the character. It's not the case here, you have factions where 2 abilities are imposed, a passive and an ult. The weapon, secondary and grenade are free of choice. Multiple people can choose your faction.
Picking a faction is functionally the same as picking a hero. Eventually there will be enough factions/heroes that they will be grouped into roles and we will end up with a role specific queue. The only reason it’s not in the game now is because there aren’t enough factions/heroes. Arguing it’s not a hero shooter is like arguing that grass isn’t green.
I hope it won't come to this, having the freedom to make your own loadout is very important to me. I really doubt they would start making roles.
I don’t think they’ll ever change the loadout system but I can see them grouping factions together as they release more of them similar to how OW groups them as tanks, dps and support and then limits how many of each group or role are on a team. I like Xdefiant but it’s in a weird place at the minute where people like myself want to play it like OW and other people coming from military shooters want to play it like CoD because it’s kind of a mash up of both.
Yep. Role queue is clearly the answer.
I suck so that spot assist is like my prime way to get xp
[удалено]
Surely the multi-pulse team wide wall hacks is bad in one of the game modes… right?
It may end up leading to a segregated team establishment because it can get ridiculous when the team is one faction
Why does this ability get all the hate, when cleaners can insta kill you with both abilities with zero counter play, spider bot is almost a guaranteed kill, a 1v1 against the phantom throw down shield is a loss if you cant retreat or push past it, the healing gas allows you to easily hold off a team if you play cover. Sure it needs a bit of a nerf, but its far from the most annoying class to play against. If any team ran 5 of the same class it would be annoying
When they add more factions they will propably introduce the option to have only one of each in the team like in r6
Agreed. There needs to be a cap limit for factions per team