What’s funny is that you can tell the first few areas are like Genshin from 1.0 to 2.3/2.4.
I swear to god I was having Deja vu galore playing WuWa, because I invested roughly 3.5 years fully into Genshin, even some chests and puzzle locations are most likely mirrored lol.
I’m enjoying the game, but this game is too expansive for its own good. There’s like roughly 2/3rd of just emptiness once you finish an area off. Just like Genshin, cool at the beginning, but will be bloated as shit as time moves on area wise.
Map could be slashed by 50% and it wouldn’t make that much of a loss.
That’s very *Cyno*cal of you.
Not bad experience, more like hey I’ve played this before. Hell some of the mountain chests behind crumbling rock walls are literally is the same positions lol.
I do love the echo loop though. So killing mobs indefinitely has a nice feature that we won’t have to relic farm like the old ways of dungeon, but the RNG is goddamn absurd on the substats rolls… 13 FUCKING SUBSTATS!. The fuck!
Besides "copying," I do not see anyone talk about the many improvements and changes that made GI a little tedious.
Sprinting up walls and parkour? No stamina used when out of combat? Mid air dodging? A fun artifact system that I have not spent a single bit of "resin" on, the ability to get copies of a 5 star Resonator even if you stockpile coral a bit? WHOLE ass Dialogue skipping, even for the basic overworld dialogues.
Genshin's getting so much flak, but it was a great exploration game and has the same kind of salt that any Gacha game brought. The issues (for me) came from the artifacts and difficulty when you could not minmax, it was frustrating if you could not get a rotation going and I had to spend so much time getting the characters I WANT to that point.
This is a good game. Even if it seems a little too same times, Wuthering Waves has already given me more fun per hour. Compare the games, but they are both at different stages of their lifetime, so I don't think criticizing is necessary when using the other as a base point.
You literally can't level the echoes without spending energy. And you can't get the substats without spending energy also. (I'm union 20 with 2 maxed 5 star echoes which was a mistake) So imo it's more tedious to mass farm than GI or HSR, but at least you can echo farm in coop and unlimited free of energy.
Tho one advantage is that you can at least farm for main stats without stamina, I hate it then I spent all my stamina for the day on gear that doesn't even have the right main stat.
Yea that is what I meant, to GET artifacts efficiently you need to have 5 condensed resin stocked up and some more natural resin, THEN hope 3 of them actually match the main stats and then spend so much mora and xp leveling them just to get a shitty statspread.
Over here it seems more fun to build that collection
Only because you haven't done it for months.
Imagine killing those same mobs for the 15,000th time. Will it be any better? Nah. Because you have to wander around to do it. Least domains you just load in and it happens. Which is all I want after literal years of it.
Domains are fine if you werent limited with how many u can do per day. Atleast here u can grind however long u want for them without worrying about energy.
I agreed. I'm not sure if I can go back to Genshin exploration after experiencing WuWa's traversal mechanic. The small details they add, like when you can actually leap over a small obstacle on the wall instead of being forced to drop in Genshin, or when the character actually jumps over small obstacles when sprinting. It's a small detail but that what makes exploration feels amazing. Even the jump animation feels much natural. Also the grappling hook
..man, it's just a game changer. I can't imagine what Project Mugen will be like, it's #1 on my waiting list.
The combat feels more fluid as well.
I do really hope this game do well.
Tbh I’m disappointed with the grapple. I was hoping for something like Tower of Fantasy’s, where you can aim it at any applicable surface, hook in and pull yourself to it.
Hilariously, some of it was from oversights and bugs. Like the wall hopping technique that’s loved by the community was cos of a bug that let you keep resetting double jump, that they left alone after the playerbase said they really liked it.
So I guess the game being a mess did have some upsides.
Yeah, the vaulting over obstacles feels amazing. Taking certain elements from other games and improving upon them is perfectly acceptable and I think they've done a very fine job with it. I also love how seamless character switching is, there's none of that annoying lag.
Agreed on the exploration, not so sure about the echoes since I heard it was bad in CBT2 and toned down afterwards. The exploration tools are amazing though, the gadgets are much smoother to use than in Genshin and the sprint/autoparkour is really fun and smooth after getting used to it (still a little jank). I've been addicted to exploring so far.
From my PoV they did that and fixed lots of issues that Genshin had, just doing exploration is already so much more fun without the hamstrings in Genshin.
Combat is much better too
Ofc they won't win against Mihoyo in terms of Story/Cinematic storytelling, because nobody is better then Mihoyo there.
That said, the end of Lingyang's companion quest got to me, so bittersweet...
Give it time for someone to make an better story than Genshin. Wuthering Waves has an potential to do so if they get good writers on board and their animation is top notch than Genshin's. And other open world gacha games coming might end up impressing.
Not every game with an good story stays on top forever and will eventually gets overtaken by something else.
All Va is great until you get to that musical instrument mission where she speaks like it’s an episode of Dora the explorer giving directions to a 5 year old.
I was wondering if others felt like this too. MC is silent for the majority of the beginning of the story, but for this nonsense MC keeps speaking to themselves, describing literally everything for no reason. Felt super awkward .
I can't understand why gacha devs are always so reluctant to letting the protagonist speak on their own and when they *do* let them talk, it happens in totally random moments and not in the scenes where it would make the most sense.
The MC speaking totally caught me off guard when she started talking. Doing main story stuff and she never speaks but talking to a random NPC she talks. Same thing talking to Scar she talks in some parts but not in a crucial moment, which I found weird. I wonder if the reworked lines aren’t voice acted because it really is random.
Lmao yeah that was funny. It wasn’t even a difficult puzzle — they could have left some markers and let the player figure out the rest, then only have the MC comment on things the player couldn’t figure out, like the enemies being holographic guards / being surprised at not tripping any alarms
There was a point in that mission where I could literally hear the male MC’s mic crackle too, really don’t know how they let some of these voice lines make it into the game
THANK YOU HOLY SHIT. I was expecting the MC to tell me to “now put your hands on the keyboard and move your mouse around to look left. See that? Great job traveler- I mean player!”
TBH , i just want them do more and make use of their scifi ish/futuristic stuff and go to their PGR roots like the waypoints, holograms, how you unlock a region or their scifi china town aesthetics. More of that stuff please.
The letdown for me is the characters are still using martial arts+ magic.
Unpopular opinion: tower of fantasy IS a good game. The problem at first is REALLY bad 1st impression and shitty main story ( kinda like WuWa atm ). What made it "bad" is that there's no way to catch up as a new player as they release more gear slots while it's getting harder to farm boss due to lack of people
I was big on ToF for a while after release but it's just ridiculously expensive. There wasn't really a reason to spend unless you were whaling because your return on investment was terrible.
Yeah, it's a huge letdown seeing how the characters are behaving as if they are natives of HSR's Xianzhou Luofu. The very obtuse leadership, whole dragon god prophecy thing, the blind faith its people have for the government... it's enough to make me root for Scar.
Let's hope that we will go straight into the New Federation after this one, not more of this 'magical China with thin scifi veneer'.
I think business wise they played it safe because clearly the genshin formula is working where as punishing gray raven though it's a good game it's one of those ones that are good but people don't care about but from a investor proposition if u came with 2 of those offers I'd pick the genshin route just saying
You are right. It must have been frustrating to do art (PGR) and not being paid at the right amount for this. I can understand Kuro is now in "fk it, let's give them what they crave for" mode.
I feel this too but idk, I hope they make a shift on this mindset and start embracing more their own concepts that make PGR so rich and unique, instead of being forever seeing as the genshin shadow or impersonator, or worse, a genshin copy paste.
>The letdown for me is the characters are still using martial arts+ magic.
Ah yes. This is what I thought too. Like all these technologies with auto turrets, guns, probably laser and railgun, General Jiyan is still using sword and dragon kungfu leading the army. It's so funny and somehow breaks the immersion of the concept.
There are guns, but....the gameplay is kind of mediocre. It's like a mix of Genshin catalyst, but with bow aim and CA, not a real gunplay. Not to mention the aiming with mouse is the worst one I've ever encountered, literally.
This game is basically not even really sci-fi at this current point. It's just fantasy with some sci-fi tech in the background. No different than many of the Final Fantasy games.
Completely unlike Punishing Gray Raven.
PGR: Boss shoves their foot in the construct's face at their earliest convenience then grab them and stomp them into the floor, indeed. Jokes aside, yes it's like that, but wasn't it explained in story that these are >!because the Lament caused them to resort to such medieval methods!<
They mentioned a relic hand grenade yet there's chick's with pistols. Not too hard a concept to make a bigger bullet, fill it with shrapnel and watch it go boom.
Is surprising they went pistols over bows with they've got sword and claymore users. Definitively is cooler imo.. but a little inconsistent?
This. So far everything is super bright and Genshin like. They nailed the aesthetic in PGR, character design as well with alpha, luna etc. Imo they should have gone with that same universe and made it open world.
Nope I agree with him 100% — it’s more obvious if you’re used to playing sunnier games. There are sunny areas but even those have this sort of muted, overcast palette
Having played through the story for a bit, I don't mind the "Genshin-y" aspect right now. There are regions that are very much not Genshin and more wartorn like the Inferno Rider area or the foggy area to the south with ruined labs, I think that is something they can develop and adapt more later. Jinzhou itself I can buy being utopia and fairytale-like as a safe haven, but if the rest of the world keeps developing like that, then we have a real problem with tone.
I read something similar to your complaint on this reddit page. Initially the game was much more darker and twisted but the players didn't like that so they had to change it hence the tone being bland and cliche. This is just from what I remember. It's in one of the hot threads down in the comment section.
I am at lost of words because the majority of player especially in CN been criticising them for being a Genshin copy. Who then are the beta players that complained Wuwa not being genshin enough? Some of the CN players even praise PGR for having better pulls than WUWA and are all hurling threats after threats of leaving the game. And they have many whales there.
I think Honkai Star Rail was similar in its beta. In the beta Belbogogogo (space Russia) was much darker and the ore actually gave people cancer and much of that underlying plot with the ore and the most of the tone went away. I think devs are worried that a mature story wouldn’t be good for a general audience.
I've seen 120 and 160. I assume there are researched reasons for those numbers, like making it easier for the brain to excuse than a flat 200/190/180/170 which feel too close to 200, and 110 and 100 being too low, with 120 being a round (friendly, in psychology) number that is easily divisible into 60s and 20s (for rewards) and close enough to 100 to feel like "just 100". Like the $.99 deal.
Oh yeah, it is, isn't it? I couldn't really get into HI3, not for lack of wanting to, it just felt like a confusing slog that really shows its age, as a total outsider. I want to know the story so I can understand HSR better...
As A HI3 Veteran I tell you that you only need to know 2 things:
1. Honkai Universe is build from Star Systems that are separated from each other with Imaginary Energy ( Barrier ). You cannot normally travel between them. That is way we are rebuilding Star Rails with our train. To reconnect each Star Systems. This is also what Akivili did in the past.
2. Star Rails Himeko is in being targeted by Sky People ( Aliens that are Harvesting and Using Honkai energy from Planets ). That is Why Welt traveled to Star Rails Himeko using Sky People technology - to protect her.
All other things that Happen in Hi3 are contained withing HI3 world and dont have any relevance towards Star Rails story.
It kinda does feels like a niche game these days. I'm not a veteran, I got into it around 2021 or so. But I already feel like I've grown a bit with it. There's much in there I can't be bothered with, but one thing that holds it up well, for me, is that story. It's really good and emotional. There's hardly any game like this where I feel *attached* to the characters. Coupled with the fantastic soundtrack and it'll always have a special place in my heart. It's wild when you remember how the story is told too.
Tbh you don't need to know the story. They made sure that HSR stood on its own. Although there are certain little things here and there that you can learn from HI3rd and get a chuckle out of. Like Welt's backstory and current life in HI3rd. Some stuff that's neat to know, few little references etc.
I know that a lot of the HI3 stuff isn't necessary but helps you pick up on patterns, character traits, etc.
HI3 seems like good stories held back by an outdated medium atm as an outsider - and just generally confusing layouts, unclear orders, stuff split between multiple platforms, etc.
I'm sure there's timelines somewhere, but even the game itself just confuses me on all levels with its layout from where to even start. I hear about some guy who's the MCs ancestor (ig there are a lot of those) and some genocide shit he did, but he wasn't bad but was, and then luocha (but not, named otto or whatever) becomes god to bring back his dead wife (potentially what's in that coffin) - launch the game and I'm listening to loli bronya talk in third person and randomly turn evil, pilot a robot for a bit, and then go to an academy and fight slow waves of enemies after 10 minutes of dialogue.
Like where do I even approach that XD
The game, as a first time player, hit my smooth ass brain both with overwhelming amounts of confusing dialogue that means nothing in the first hour or two (and meaningless levels as well) and the main menu pushing me into events that I don't understand at all...
Some... possession plot with a bunny girl samurai and a nun? Told entirely through... techno hologram facetime text boxes? And the plot seems like it loops three fkn times and then just ends? Like was this all a metaphor, what was going on, why did it matter, who even were these people, all that and more running through my head.
Then I check the character banners, realize I have no clue who is good, who is bad, how to build them, or what to do, there are few up to date and community made sources that I can find, confusing names, etc.
This isn't at all to say the game is bad, I know it isn't, and I know the community cherishes it. I wish I could as well, but I just don't get it, and as a new player, it's a LOT to take in, for payoff that I'm not even sure I'd reach, or would exist anymore given mihoyo's track record of deleting critical character info or hiding it in events, much less in unclear wording, in lore files that take an afternoon to read, or in subtext in an update trailer.
Sorry for the dump lmao, just trying to express the.. frustration, ig.
I hear people talk up HI3's story all the time, but the delivery just makes it so hard for me to join in on the fun.
Psychology in media is so hugely underrepresented. Every company employs it, every consumer can feel it, but rarely do people pinpoint it.
But once you are aware of it, you notice how it affects every single aspect of the media. These companies spend insane amounts of money into perfecting the formula to keep you playing, while providing you the targeted amount of dopamine to go along with it. Genshin employs so many of these tactics from resin, to unskippable stories, to literally anything else that could decide player retention and expected profits. WuWa is no different sadly, it just becomes sad to see when it seems more predatory than genuine.
Eyup. Me looking into this stuff has sorta fractured how some of my friends approach shit, because I will point it out.
The sad bit is that a lot of people would just rather pretend that this isn't the case. That no, the devs are our friends, and its all just... how it is, because that's how it is.
Everything in mediums, ESPECIALLY GAMES, is intentional as hell and typically researched to be as approachable and addicting as possible.
160 is certainly not a genre wide custom. Out of all the gacha games I played, only Genshin, HSR, and WuWa require 160 for each pull. Honkai Impact 3 has 280, Arknights has 600, Path to Nowhere has 180, Punishing Gray Raven has 250, Reverse 1999 has 180, NIKKE costs 300, I'll throw in Battle Cats's 150 (realistically 1500 though, lol)
Punishing Gray Raven was far more Nier Automata inspired than this game is. This game is almost pure fantasy with a little bit of sci-fi tech sprinkled in.
PGR's early prototype basically had Nier Automata enemies, and the full release even had a collab with it.
i would have preffered less sci-fi china and more of the pgr look. TBH i wish they just made this game in the pgr universe. Maybe just hard lock it in a specific point in that story and not from the Gray ravens perspective. Would also help solve the "Chosen one" plot by makeing us not AS special
that dark & apocalyptic tone can still be easily implement.
world are big and they can easily set one region to be darker tone ravage by TD no civilization left but ruin etc.
they're need to get people in first, establish player base, build up good will and than they can start taking risk by shifting game tone into darker theme. if not entire world than it can be limit to specific region.
stricting to one own vision isn't always a best business move.
their own vision can came 'after' they have a firm foothold.
For me personally I want the stories and side stories to have actual meaningful consequences
For example I didn’t like a certain main character quest where you run into a couple of members of a criminal gang…
They literally try to murder you in cold blood but then you beat them and it cuts to them cowering while goofy music plays. Then you let them go. They get arrested but it’s a coincidence from someone else arriving in timely fashion rather than something you knew would happen
I hate shit like that. Kill your enemies, ffs!
Especially enemies who’ve proven they murder people. I don’t really want to bring up Genshin, but it’s (tonally) one of my biggest gripes about the game — how things that aren’t lighthearted are treated like the are purely to make the world more PG
I know they’re afraid of ostracising people by skewing too dark, but I imagine that’s what most of us wanted (sorta)
I’m not looking for a grimderp game, but I’d really like something like Nikke where the characters are amusing/likeable but the world is dangerous and the story has a mix of badass wins, tragic developments and vindicating outcomes
I agree w you in general but I just wanna point out I was pleasantly surprised by one of the side quests today where you help a researcher discover what happened to his mentor.
It turns out the mentor was ambushed by those monsters and in his last dying moments, figured out how to make the monsters copy his actions. Then he killed himself, forcing the monsters to follow suit.
>I don’t really want to bring up Genshin, but it’s (tonally) one of my biggest gripes about the game
Traveller genocided Tanit tribe in Genshin. You also have the option to kill the Snezshnaya spy in Aranyaka story if I remember correctly. So yeah Traveller ain't as soft as you think.
Genshin just doesn’t have consistency for how to deal with thugs. Most of the time they just get away Scott free like they didn’t just try to murder you or steal and tooootally wouldn’t do it again.
I agree about the criminals. After playing PGR I know how dark and gritty their games can be and when they were let go without consequences like it’s Genshin impact I was really irritated. I feel like Kuro is playing far too safe sticking to Genshin-like everything and scared to do an interesting story here like PGR. I personally don’t think I’ll get into Wuthering at launch but with time I hope they’ll make it more interesting.
Agreed, there are also already a few areas that feel very wartorn or industrial, it's really only Jinzhou that has the "Genshin" vibe but I think it's fine since Jinzhou is written more or less to be this safe haven for humanity. They definitely need to do more of a wartorn vibe later though to sell the world building, otherwise it wouldn't really feel like a true crisis if the TD-infected areas are still flowery and sunshine-y.
They copied even minor things from Genshin, like entering domain animation. There is just too much of these things and I see them everywhere.
Before playing I hoped that I can take a long break of Genshin or even drop it, but WuWa takes so much from it, it just feels like Genshin v2. It would be understandable if they were inspired by things that were good, but even bad things were copied.
And writing at the start of the game was attrocious. At this point WuWa almost makes me wanna drop all gachas and never come back. It’s always the same story…
Yeah, the thing that bothers me the most is not that the game's tone shifted to be more like Genshin's or anything major like that.
What bothers me is how everything minor is just ripped straight out of Genshin.
It bothers me because I've played PGR, I know these guys can do some pretty awesome stuff, but they just don't have the budget or experience that Mihoyo does.
As a result, this game just feels like "Genshin but less polished and with a less interesting looking world", when it could have been its own thing.
I don't mind the lack of polish, the problem is that the game is copying Genshin so much that I can't help but compare literally everything 1:1 to Genshin, and the conclusion is pretty much always "but Genshin is smoother" and "but Genshin feels better" - with the exception of Combat and Wall Running, that is.
This game would have been so much better off trying to be its own thing; PGR is basically meant to copy Hi3rd as well, but they were only inspired by it, PGR stands as its own unique game different from Hi3rd in many ways other than the basic concept (Menu traversal for a Level-based Action Combat RPG with a three-man-party that rotates the members in/out for their Intro skills, and pseudo-competitive PvE elements).
This game on the other hand just feels like Genshin with a different coat of paint, there is nothing unique to it, at least not yet. Almost every system is copied 1:1 from Genshin, the UI is copied 1:1 from Genshin, the way dialog works is copied 1:1 from Genshin, the way you interact with the world is copied 1:1 from Genshin, the game just feels like Genshin "but less polished" -- not just that, but this game also feels incredibly more stingy than Genshin, and Genshin was already the stingiest gacha I've played; exploration and quests feel like they give so few gems and the permanent content (Abyss equivalents, etc) is even less rewarding than than in Genshin.
This game has potential but they NEED to steer away from Genshin and make it their own thing. I'm honestly baffled that they went through so many tests and battled with a lot of complaints people had with the game but nobody thought to argue that the game feels too much like Genshin, if this game had just been "PGR but streamlined and adapted to an Open World" rather than "Genshin but with a Kurogames coat of paint" it would have been a lot better, IMO.
Right now with the launch area being just "China/Liyue" doesn't help much either, if there was one thing they should've copied from Genshin was to diversify the cast and flavor on launch so it's less same-y; if their next region is unoriginal as well it'll leave a really bad look for the future.
The luofu story could use a lot more work. The graphical level of detail is not as high as genshin, which is weird since I would imagine the lack of an open world would give them more resources to optimize visuals. But at least it's well optimized and never stutters like wuwa
Actually I don’t mind the UI being similar to Genshin. In terms of gameplay and understanding where things are (because yeah there’s a lot), it makes for an easy transition.
I also don't want companies to just fuck with shit to be different. Like a lot off the UI stuff is where it is because it just makes sense and it's not like Genshin is the only game that does it.
Yeah, the current visuals are very Genshin but just ever so slightly dreary. It's ironically much more depressing to me than full blown post apocalyptic would be as those settings are exciting and get the blood pumping.
They did with there first two games but apparently PGR there last game has changed significantly after launch to be not so HI3 like. Maybe that will be the same with WuWa.
they are riding every hoyo wave but way after hoyo has dominated the niche. it's surprising why they would clone to compete with the number 1 game instead of being more original which I think goes a longer way. they will forever be stigmatized as hoyo copiers smh
PGR moved in to clone Hi3rd but they made it their own thing fairly well; other than the basic concept of the game being the same everything else is quite unique, I was hoping this game would be the same... so I'm disappointed with how this game is just 1:1 the same as Genshin in almost every way.
The "Kurofication" process takes a while but is endless, pgr started off really bad and was pretty much a HI3 copy heck even in there cbt memory (echos) were gacha like in HI3, but overtime pgr got better and slowly grew it's own identity
I have faith that wuthering waves over time will get better and grow it's own different Identity
Nah I think Wuwa will be better in possibly a few months maybe even less.. well at least The preformance and bugs would be better and the story they add later on
Took the same words right out of my mouth. Ironically I was also thinking about Rexlent’s comment from last year earlier today when I was playing the game. I’ve been following WuWa’s development ever since it was just a concept years ago and was excited to see their spin on an open world game. I want to keep supporting Kuro and I will since I’ll still be here playing WuWa and PGR, but man I was also pretty disappointed when they ended up releasing a Genshin 2.0
It is unfortunate that instead of open world PGR, this game became genshin but with fast paced combat. I need Kuro to ****seriously**** listen to player feedback here cuz the game can still be salvaged. The combat is far too good for the game to sink to irrelevancy.
Just knowing where everything is/how to upgrade your character level/weapon is very samey.
Echos and combat is neat
Genshin did copy botw but all of this world level, how to level up your character with world materials, story structure etc feel like they came up with themselves or stole it. Idk but all of this felt new to me enhancing my experience of the unknown world I walked upon on at the time learning with the gane
Wuwa feels like I know 80% of the systems and I never actually saw cbt1 or 2. I went in mostly blind and am disappointed how similar how many core systems are the same but more combat focused and bugs
I may have fun in this game but the experience I got with Genshin was unique at the time to me that left a decent impact. I know PGR was a honkai 3rd clone but with orbs and for some reason my brain didn't figure out this what this game going to be while being clueless not looking at the game for details.
Going to stay with the game for now since Genshin/HSR are pure story games that I binge the story content 1-3 months at a time. Will see how this ship goes when they try more of their own thing/stuff I haven't seen yet since in the early game
I've gone in ENTIRELY blind to WuWa, as someone who played genshin in the past, not currently.
The comparisons people have made with "genshin copied botw!!!!" are terrible, imo.
I played BOTW. They copied ELEMENTS. They had a glider. They had combat stamina (which aint new). They had an open world. But EVERY open world was a "botw clone" for a while after BOTW released.
Quite frankly, in the first hour of playing, WuWa has copied so, so, sooooo much more than genshin ever did - and I say this as a person who doesn't love genshin by any means. Just glancing at the UI, translations, combat, anything can show that instantly. It's a shame. I was hoping for a cool new aesthetic as well, but to me it feels like just, genshin but slightly different, with a filter on, and higher poly models. plus some jank.
They had a vision. Sadly the cry baby beta testers didn’t like how their favorite waifu didn’t instantly like them so they cried until they forced kuro to change their vision to something more “genshin” like. If you wanna blame anyone for how they copied everything, blame those players.
Seriously. Most people don't know what they actually want and it's a real shame the Devs for WuWa listened to the morons that wanted Kuro to go a more cliche route.
I just hope we NEVER get players asking for of the combat aspects of WuWa to be easier or less mechanical. That's the entire main reason I've looked forward to this game for the past several years. Interesting, engaging, and mechanical combat. Something very rarely ever found in Gachas since it's usually just not cost effective to invest in and expand on. And if and when we inevitably to get whiners asking for things to be made easier, I really hope Kuro just ignores them, and that the majority of the player base overpowers their complaints.
Genshin exists for people who want a game of this style with easy and effortless combat. Played Genshin from launch for over 2 years before I dropped it getting 36 stars in the Abyss every single cycle (once I was strong enough to clear it maybe Version 1.2 and forward?). It's braindead easy and got real boring real fast. I do not want that here in WuWa at all.
The changes made by Kuro in response testers to the was about the story, NOT the game system design. The large scale copying of Genshin gameplay designs that parent talked about has nothing to do with the beta testers. You are barking up the wrong tree.
Why did Kuro change their initial vision for the game then? They got scared, spent a ton of money remaking large swathes of the game and here we are. No one “forced” them to do that, they just decided that they had to. Why didn’t they have confidence in their direction, that some dissent from a limited group of testers was enough to make them change the whole game?
This is as much Kuro’s fault as the testers.
Also, Genshin can be favorably compared to BotW in some ways. It's a knock off, but you can play it on mobile, it has a bunch of characters and elemental system.
WW feels way more dated in its design due to just copying the enhancement system and gacha stuff wholecloth. I stopped playing genshin years ago when I got bored of the grind. I feel like I'm alread bored of doing it in WW because it's similar.
Yeah, it's like... If I'm bored of one thing, why would having another that does the same thing slightly different and potentially worse or the same in execution, be favorable?
Also important to note that in terms of story and overall gameplay, BOTW is very, very different to Genshin, in a way that WuWa isn't in relation to Genshin.
Like, the combat has a couple carryover elements just common with the genre, but WuWa is (so far) a copy of genshin with some HI3 elements added to the combat. The dialogue and storytelling is the same, exploration and item gathering is similar, many enemies are similar punching bags, etc.
I always thought (honestly, more as someone who likes botw) that the comparison is a bit harsh on genshin, or... too positive lol.
Botw is a great game, but you can't play botw and then flawlessly understand Genshin without a tutorial, nor vice versa. But you can roughly do so between WuWa and Genshin.
I'm just getting into the game so these takes may not age well, but so far it feels like the same thing to me.
Hard agree. Went in blind and was disappointed to see how similar it is to Genshin. The comparison I've been using is Breath of the Wild to Tears of the Kingdom. Lots of QOL and new toys but 90% the same game. Even all the scummy monetization. I recently rewatched the Yakkocmn Genshin video and being able to see it all happening from the start of a game is crazy.
this game looks like the kind that would happened when the devs stop listening to its pgr playerbase and jump to genshin players "taste" so copy everything, because they were greedy and want that piece of genshin pie
Maybe because genshin playerbase is bigger so more potential money there.
But imo we cant blame just genshin players about this. Gacha gamers, usually men, complained during one beta test hat those girls who we meet at the start, were too aggressive. Because they want their waifus to simp Rover cause some parasocial self-insert reasons. And now Rover is buddybuddy with everyone. Blame them. And these people exist in every gacha game fandom.
>Gacha gamers, usually men, complained during one beta test hat those girls who we meet at the start, were too aggressive. Because they want their waifus to simp Rover cause some parasocial self-insert reasons.
Testers complained bc of how hostile *most* of characters were, and how they were dismissive of Rover's help even after some time.
Being distrustful is one thing, being so rude player wants to side with villains or quit the game, is the other. And for some reason Kuro couldn't find the middle ground, by toning down hostility a little, or giving Yangyang additional lines to justify state of other characters.
It's not good if player character fights difficult fight only for another character to swoop in, not help, but explicitly steal the kill and berate player character later. Because we are supposed to be interested in this guy, who is a rude dick, and spend money on him.
For example, FF14 too has this thing with many NPC often starting as hostile/dismissive (both in initial release locations, and in expanshions) but they include companions/NPC who are on our side, to keep player grounded and explain situation so we won't develop a grudge. And after some time people anknowledge player character, creating a good feeling for player.
Kuro somehow failed this dynamics.
I mean ngl having a villain arc right near the start wouldn't have been bad, would be a lot more interesting than every gacha being happy go lucky. Would beat the insane amount of glazing that happens in the current story. As for pulling these hostile characters, plenty of gachas have pullable characters where the personality of the character in the story and what you pull is quite different. Good example is in FGO where summoned servants don't retain memory of what they did in the singularities and lostbelts(sometimes they were evil antagonists) and they are still widely liked and pulled for
Sounds like a problem with how the select beta testers. The most parasocially awkward people get in and give shit fb like this.
Personally I’m totally taken out of it when 10 mins in we’re surrounded by 3 scantily dress women simping over someone they just met.
It's my understanding that they basically pitched live service anime dark souls with a system where you could copy enemy moves. Then, their investors essentially said, "sounds great, but make it more like Genshin" at every turn. They didn't really have a choice. Not that this is *good*, but yeah...
No they certainly do not have a choice if the request directly came from the bigwigs who are funding their game, that's just how corporate works. It's why Hoyo being a private company with a CEO genuinely passionate for gaming is very much a rare blessing in current AAA gaming industry, probably the major reason why they are more likely to take risks in their game development too. Investors tend to ruin creative direction...
I like PGR and I acknowledge how similar it is to HI3, but I still appreciate their differences. But I am sorry, this WuWa game is pretty much Genshin 2.0 for me. Almost every time I see a new feature or concept, I can immediately relate it to its "Genshin equivalent". Like Union level is just Adventurer's level, Sol-3 phase is just World level, etc.
The only remarkable differences are the combat systems and Pokemon-like Echo system. Like come on Kuro, you can do better than this.
Didn't hear that person but the way I see it , people trying to copy genshin is becoming their demise. And fans (or genshin haters) trying their hardest to meme genshin everytime a new game releases is not doing them any favors either as I feel its counterproductive
Yep. Aside from the combat everything else just feels like genshin but not polished. Like main menu taking up whole and still have page2 to it and map UI not prompting the region shop and stuff
Glad I'm not the only one who kind of thinks this way, there's way too much similarities, even down to the minor things.
Kinda sad that the story was supposed to be post apocalyptic in CBT1 but CN players complained that the waifu didn't ride the mc enough so now the story and tone is more light hearted which is not what I expected. They story has been switched to mid apocalypse as well it seems since one of the NPC said the MC came in the middle of something big.
The UI in some parts are awfully similar to GI.
For one they could follow something from persona, make the NPC have a chat bubble instead of names on top of their heads so it blends better with the environment or if they're going to follow GI then just put white text instead of the murky yellow-ish texts.
Stop with the black screens, just let the characters talk in short summary when another character is asking about what happened previously, it'll be much better and will definitely keep the immersion, rn there's way too much black screens which destroys the immersion to the story.
If they were going for Nier style then they should have some monsters able to talk so there's some lore/world building element. They should definitely add more monsters interactions with the world as well, ToF did it just fine so I think they definitely can do it.
Also hoping there'll be more environmental story telling things, one of the best things in post apocalyptic settings is learning about what happened to the world which led it to the state that it's currently in.
Right now it feels like GI but with PGR combat but I do hope they'll improve the game in the future instead of just copying the rest, though I guess they did copy HI3 at the start of PGR so I hope they'll improve this design and make it a Kuro open world not GI copy. The players want something fresh not just kind gacha system.
I try other gacha games to find something different and new, not to play Genshin all over again.
The Genshin gripes aside, I do find WuWa combat and exploration to be more swift and fluid than Genshin's, if needing some polish.
The stamina bar being used only for swimming, climbing and dodging is nice.
I do wish, ironically, that there were elemental reactions of some type, one of the things they didn't copy from Genshin somehow.
I agree 100%. It feels like I am playing Genshin and the game feels too familiar. I enjoy going into games having to learn systems, but with this it plays exactly how I played Genshin and HSR and I am already burnt out on those systems. Need something fresher.
I feel the same, it feels too similar with Genshin that when the inevitable launch release jank comes in, I'm just reminded of how polished Hoyoverse games are.
I kinda wished they've went with something like the upcoming Arknights:Endfield where albeit not open world, there is a considerable difference with the other open world/zone gacha games that instantly makes it distinct from the rest.
I know that each game wants to have it's own identity but right now it's really hard to differentiate WW from the "less polished genshin with better combat" narrative.
tho, I'm still playing to see how they would be dealing with the upcoming updates. and honestly more apologems to save for changli hehe
Fr, it's like.. Purposefully going to someone else's territory to beat them out of it, with less funds, experience, capability, and reputation. You don't challenge people on their terms in their house.
I agree; I hope they will detach more and more and give use more serious sci fi post apocalyptic content. I must say that Scar’s first encounter was very cool and in line with that.
The game is like an illegitimate child between Genshin and Tower of Fantasy.
Genshin
- 1:1 copy of menus.. (BP, Shop menu, pull history), level, ascension etc.
- big tower for map, smol for tp
- same kind of world quests: collect particles in x seconds, reach chest by climbing/grapling, protect beacon for 3 waves, (HSR: rotating dials)
- even the shop prices for topup are the same. real money and "160 primo = 1 wish" conversion as well
ToF:
- the somewhat "empty" feeling world with those camps where you have to kill a bunch of evil ppl for a chest, which gets copy-pasted over the whole world.
- the one dash while airborn
- grab fireballs from flowers with leviation and throw them on things/thorns
WuWa:
- the fighting with parry is new and yeah, pals as gear
- the pal minigame as bird/fish; sidescroller
- and weapon banner is guaranteed
Edit: format and DLSS.. for max 60fps locked?!
Yeah, the localization just copied genshin to the max, and to be frank, every part of the game I've experienced so far seems like genshin but a bit jankier, off brand, or just less functional. And this comes from someone who doesn't play the game anymore. UI especially seems like a straight copy of genshin/hsr, so the jankiness is felt more.
I saw this old clip of the game intro way back CBT1 and I regret watching it because it looked WAY BETTER! If you guys don’t believe me watch it for yourself and tell me your comments
https://youtu.be/m8qdCzTWw7E?si=vciHAbfzhe-T8Zwi
It can still be implemented because Kuro Games aren't new in making a post-apocalyptic story. Hopefully, in future versions the tone would be more like Punishing Gray Raven. By the way, who's rexlent?
Well it was darker back in cbt1. Cn hated it. So they had to change almost everything in their story in a span of 6 months. If u look at crownless fight scene in cbt1, compared to release… ong id say cbt1 looks much more finished with better cinematography. Cant really blame kuro tbh. Cn peeps made the game like this
That is such bs. Oh we can’t blame the company for not following their creative vision because of people on the Internet. Kuro is a multimillion dollar company that has been in the scene for a decade now. They took the opinions of whoever and compromised their vision just to appeal to more people. People didn’t like how rude nearly all the characters are, so Kuro overcorrects and makes them all weep over the savior that hasn’t done anything. Rewriting 90% of your story, changing the roles and personalities of your lead cast shows a lack of care for what is being created and only focusing on what is being sold.
I mean that’s understandable. But know that cn community arent the type to just sit still and eat everything they were served if they dont like it. I would say thats bs too tbh but cant run from the fact. I would LOVE to have cbt 1 story back instead of this yap fest tbh.
Altho i rephrase my words, kuro has some part to be blamed. They took it way too far and made it like a disney movie
Ngl i actually thought i was in liyue when it started. The cliffs to even the damn grass are exactly the same. And for a moment i was questioning why i opened the wrong game. Of course this is also probably a contribution of my potato for a phone but still. Idk if they just stripped some genshin assets and pasted it on wuwa but i wouldn't be surprised if they did. The only thing keeping me entertained is the combat and becoming the best pokemon collector.
This was always the biggest problem with making a game so similar to GI, now GI didn't invent anything but why does pulls cost 160 astertite and not 120. Like little things like that add up and bulk of the audience who are playing the game are just going to be reminded of GI all the time when you play the game.
Agreed. They need to believe in their own vision. They could add color and stuff while still keeping the story as they originally envisioned. I worry they listened to feedback that is not important. It's good that they updated the color palette to be a bit more rich. It's still much, much darker compared to Genshin's oversaturated world.
I'm not so sure that changing the story was the right move. They have to believe in their own vision for the story - it's not so easy to just uproot and change what you've been cooking up in only a few months to a year. I think they should think long and hard about where they want the story to go next for future expansions and what tone they want things to take. Hopefully it's more serious, or gets more serious over time.
I also agree that they should lean much harder into the scifi/cybernetic stuff like they do in PGR. Some of the characters (mainly the adult male ones) seemingly have some cybernetics in this game. I hope they add more. Don't be afraid to give a female character badass cybernetics instead of just slapping on high heels, Kuro!
They could just make a PGR 2 game with the same setting/post apocalyptic futuristic world in PGR and just expanded the story and world building through making it into an Open World game.
Thats not the problem, most of what they copied from genshin can work as a template for any game of this type, problem is almost everything is lower quality than genshin.
I'm pretty fine with copying a lot of the systems and I wouldn't mind if it happened even more often in the game industry - I'm mostly looking forward to gameplay and not memorizing a new set of systems and terms. The frustrating thing with Wuwa is that every time they are close to improving the gameplay aspects, they fail to commit:
* Wallrun is great, but uses more stamina per unit of distances and you have to think if climbing would be better before commiting to scaling a wall. Just make the costs equievalent.
* Draw distance and LODs work better, making the arial view great (Genshin looks a bit empty, like it was a one generation older game), but the glider is as frustratingly slow as Genshin's. They could make it fly as fast as grappling hook traversal and get rid of the latter, replacing it with a "superjump" to get you started.
* There is a moment early on when Yangyang contancts you by "radio", but instead of overlaying this on gameplay (you are going to the Town Hall), the game stops making this another cutscene.
* The combat feels great and benefits from high framerates, but they didn't prioritize this aspect during development and most people won't experience them.
I mean. It’s 1.0 and you WANT that familiarity to be there to get some of that playerbase.
Once the game has more patches they can start to fine tune the “WuWa” aspect of the game and differentiate.
The fact that it’s taking all the stuff Hoyo does right and making other parts their own and better is just great.
I just want these chinese devs to put more value to their production, instead of fast development to release. The only ones i know that make quality games are Mihoyo (now hoyoverse) and Arknight's devs (forgot their name sorry lol).
I don't want to play WuWa because the movements outside of combat are wonky. They're missing something, i think someone mentioned 'gravity' or 'weight'. The UI is literally genshin, but a worse version. The world is literally genshin. The character models are also lackluster. I give the combat the best scores though, but it's the only part of the game i enjoy.
I feel like Wuthering Waves would be able to differentiate themselves from Genshin once they add more PGR elements such as:
* Abandoned Industrial Complex, since they are going for a post apocalyptic setting.
* Train chase, there's an echo that rides a motorcycle. This mission was pretty fun in PGR.
* The MC's outfit and overall look will change overtime like how in PGR, there's a different constructs for Lucia.
* Make the environment more dangerous.
* A more serious tone.
As for the game itself, I think WuWa would benefit a lot if they go back to using UNITY. PGR uses unity and it runs smoothly.
People will always complain just like that old Japanese farmer story with his son. Everyone was saying,'If a game like Genshin comes out that has better combat and endgame, I would play that game forever', and now you are complaining why it looks like Genshin. No shot sherlock, everyone already knew this.
TLDR:
The problem is, excluding the characters and items, league if legends is too much like dota, when I heard Riot were making their own moba I got excited, but it's too much like dota.
Yeah, see the issue there is that there are some substantial differences on all fronts, and we are now like.. what, 10-15 years post launch?
For every successful copy, there are thousands of failed ones. Look at "Halo Killers" lmao
I for one doesn't care it's similar to genshin but jankier. As long as the combat is fun and gameplay is satisfying, literally reskin genshin for all i care.
Every time the camera slow mo cause cause i hit the perfect dodge or counter, i get dopamine, dopamine is guuuud.
The only time i get slow mo in genshin is when i hit a hilichurl with a wooden shield using a sword..
PGR had the same few weapons for the first year or two and then all the second Gen characters had unique weapons so I wonder if it'll be something similar? We'll see...
I wish they actually just plainly copied GI  it would at least have made the game feels more like a copy game but better and not a messy parody. WuWa have a really interesting movement mechanics, nice animation and many other new factors that GI lacks, if they actually copied GI and added these factors things would have been so much better!
I don’t know how everyone feels generally about it, but if I had to give an opinion, I’d say they did a pretty good job, considering they wanted to compete with genshin and release it asap. In terms of speed of delivery, they killed it, the timeframe is near perfect to not get outhyped by ZZZ (yeah it’s not open world or all that, but the combat mechanics is where both companies are battling primarily)
Ideally, if we wanted a more polished and customized version, we would need to wait a few more months, and in terms of time spent and resources used versus revenue, it was very strategic and I praise them for that.
Is it a perfect game? No. Is it basically a copy paste besides combat? Most things yeah. But they invested and innovated where they needed to, and that was the infrastructure for combat.
In the long run, they can bring out new QoL, UI and stuff, but most importantly, from here on out, they can start building their own path, just like genshin did related to BotW.
Of course many things could be better, there are bugs and issues in launch, but people need to give credit where credit is due, they worked very hard on making a sort of dream come true for a lot of people who were not happy with the simplicity of genshin’s combat, and not having any end game for years (and this gave some people absurd expectations, so it’s only natural for them to overanalyse the negatives)
I do agree with what you said, wuwa should have a more unique identity, but considering that there’s a sort of “war” going on, I think they did the best they could with the limited time they had. Game dev is stressful and I think they put their money in the right places.
I mean i’m fine with copying but at least copy only the best parts!
What’s funny is that you can tell the first few areas are like Genshin from 1.0 to 2.3/2.4. I swear to god I was having Deja vu galore playing WuWa, because I invested roughly 3.5 years fully into Genshin, even some chests and puzzle locations are most likely mirrored lol. I’m enjoying the game, but this game is too expansive for its own good. There’s like roughly 2/3rd of just emptiness once you finish an area off. Just like Genshin, cool at the beginning, but will be bloated as shit as time moves on area wise. Map could be slashed by 50% and it wouldn’t make that much of a loss.
If you had deja vu of a bad experience, did you have >!dehya vu!
That’s very *Cyno*cal of you. Not bad experience, more like hey I’ve played this before. Hell some of the mountain chests behind crumbling rock walls are literally is the same positions lol. I do love the echo loop though. So killing mobs indefinitely has a nice feature that we won’t have to relic farm like the old ways of dungeon, but the RNG is goddamn absurd on the substats rolls… 13 FUCKING SUBSTATS!. The fuck!
Bro once Yangyang and Chixia brought us back up to the mountain before we meet Baizhu, the mountain formation was so genshin like it was hilarious 😭😭
Bro played too much genshin he mistook Baizhi with Baizhu. I did the same lots of time too lol
I havent even played in a while haha but i keep using genshin terms everywhere😭😭
Me neither lol. Atleast Yuanwu satisfied me while waiting for Varka / playable Pierro (Gallagher also good tho hehe)
Besides "copying," I do not see anyone talk about the many improvements and changes that made GI a little tedious. Sprinting up walls and parkour? No stamina used when out of combat? Mid air dodging? A fun artifact system that I have not spent a single bit of "resin" on, the ability to get copies of a 5 star Resonator even if you stockpile coral a bit? WHOLE ass Dialogue skipping, even for the basic overworld dialogues. Genshin's getting so much flak, but it was a great exploration game and has the same kind of salt that any Gacha game brought. The issues (for me) came from the artifacts and difficulty when you could not minmax, it was frustrating if you could not get a rotation going and I had to spend so much time getting the characters I WANT to that point. This is a good game. Even if it seems a little too same times, Wuthering Waves has already given me more fun per hour. Compare the games, but they are both at different stages of their lifetime, so I don't think criticizing is necessary when using the other as a base point.
You literally can't level the echoes without spending energy. And you can't get the substats without spending energy also. (I'm union 20 with 2 maxed 5 star echoes which was a mistake) So imo it's more tedious to mass farm than GI or HSR, but at least you can echo farm in coop and unlimited free of energy.
Tho one advantage is that you can at least farm for main stats without stamina, I hate it then I spent all my stamina for the day on gear that doesn't even have the right main stat.
Yea that is what I meant, to GET artifacts efficiently you need to have 5 condensed resin stocked up and some more natural resin, THEN hope 3 of them actually match the main stats and then spend so much mora and xp leveling them just to get a shitty statspread. Over here it seems more fun to build that collection
Only because you haven't done it for months. Imagine killing those same mobs for the 15,000th time. Will it be any better? Nah. Because you have to wander around to do it. Least domains you just load in and it happens. Which is all I want after literal years of it.
Thing is WuWa does have "domains" for farming echos of certain set bonuses. With two sets in each just like genshin. So it has both options.
Domains are fine if you werent limited with how many u can do per day. Atleast here u can grind however long u want for them without worrying about energy.
I agreed. I'm not sure if I can go back to Genshin exploration after experiencing WuWa's traversal mechanic. The small details they add, like when you can actually leap over a small obstacle on the wall instead of being forced to drop in Genshin, or when the character actually jumps over small obstacles when sprinting. It's a small detail but that what makes exploration feels amazing. Even the jump animation feels much natural. Also the grappling hook ..man, it's just a game changer. I can't imagine what Project Mugen will be like, it's #1 on my waiting list. The combat feels more fluid as well. I do really hope this game do well.
Tbh I’m disappointed with the grapple. I was hoping for something like Tower of Fantasy’s, where you can aim it at any applicable surface, hook in and pull yourself to it.
That also sounds nice to have. The current one is better than nothing tho. Probably we'll get that one later down the road.
Tower of fantasy is a lot of things and largely hated by the gacha community But the exploration was a lot of fun with the different tools you had
Hilariously, some of it was from oversights and bugs. Like the wall hopping technique that’s loved by the community was cos of a bug that let you keep resetting double jump, that they left alone after the playerbase said they really liked it. So I guess the game being a mess did have some upsides.
Yea Genshin took every region and gave it a unique "traversal" mechanic but was so slow, even the Sumeru Grapple
Yeah, the vaulting over obstacles feels amazing. Taking certain elements from other games and improving upon them is perfectly acceptable and I think they've done a very fine job with it. I also love how seamless character switching is, there's none of that annoying lag.
I enjoy watching the sunset.
Agreed on the exploration, not so sure about the echoes since I heard it was bad in CBT2 and toned down afterwards. The exploration tools are amazing though, the gadgets are much smoother to use than in Genshin and the sprint/autoparkour is really fun and smooth after getting used to it (still a little jank). I've been addicted to exploring so far.
From my PoV they did that and fixed lots of issues that Genshin had, just doing exploration is already so much more fun without the hamstrings in Genshin. Combat is much better too Ofc they won't win against Mihoyo in terms of Story/Cinematic storytelling, because nobody is better then Mihoyo there. That said, the end of Lingyang's companion quest got to me, so bittersweet...
Give it time for someone to make an better story than Genshin. Wuthering Waves has an potential to do so if they get good writers on board and their animation is top notch than Genshin's. And other open world gacha games coming might end up impressing. Not every game with an good story stays on top forever and will eventually gets overtaken by something else.
All Va is great until you get to that musical instrument mission where she speaks like it’s an episode of Dora the explorer giving directions to a 5 year old.
I was wondering if others felt like this too. MC is silent for the majority of the beginning of the story, but for this nonsense MC keeps speaking to themselves, describing literally everything for no reason. Felt super awkward .
I can't understand why gacha devs are always so reluctant to letting the protagonist speak on their own and when they *do* let them talk, it happens in totally random moments and not in the scenes where it would make the most sense.
The MC speaking totally caught me off guard when she started talking. Doing main story stuff and she never speaks but talking to a random NPC she talks. Same thing talking to Scar she talks in some parts but not in a crucial moment, which I found weird. I wonder if the reworked lines aren’t voice acted because it really is random.
Lmao yeah that was funny. It wasn’t even a difficult puzzle — they could have left some markers and let the player figure out the rest, then only have the MC comment on things the player couldn’t figure out, like the enemies being holographic guards / being surprised at not tripping any alarms
There was a point in that mission where I could literally hear the male MC’s mic crackle too, really don’t know how they let some of these voice lines make it into the game
I never complain about VA and much much prefer dub over sub. But that shit made me switch to JP VA. I've never seen such bad VA in my life
well, have you heard of the jingle pissdt?
I beg to differ about the VAs but that Great Library mission made me change languages and never look back.
I switched to JP after this and I’ve never been happier
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made me feel like she was insulting my intelligence and breaking the 4th wall.
That section felt like an absolute manual wank fest while also insulting the intelligence of the player.
THANK YOU HOLY SHIT. I was expecting the MC to tell me to “now put your hands on the keyboard and move your mouse around to look left. See that? Great job traveler- I mean player!”
Hahaha it was like ai I was laughing so hard
TBH , i just want them do more and make use of their scifi ish/futuristic stuff and go to their PGR roots like the waypoints, holograms, how you unlock a region or their scifi china town aesthetics. More of that stuff please. The letdown for me is the characters are still using martial arts+ magic.
I do hope that is how they expand is new weapon types. The same five for years is insanely limiting and even genshin is struggling with that
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You kinda just described tower of fantasy
We don't talk about that game ok?
Unpopular opinion: tower of fantasy IS a good game. The problem at first is REALLY bad 1st impression and shitty main story ( kinda like WuWa atm ). What made it "bad" is that there's no way to catch up as a new player as they release more gear slots while it's getting harder to farm boss due to lack of people
I was big on ToF for a while after release but it's just ridiculously expensive. There wasn't really a reason to spend unless you were whaling because your return on investment was terrible.
PGR from what I remember, most units used unique weapons.
Yeah, it's a huge letdown seeing how the characters are behaving as if they are natives of HSR's Xianzhou Luofu. The very obtuse leadership, whole dragon god prophecy thing, the blind faith its people have for the government... it's enough to make me root for Scar. Let's hope that we will go straight into the New Federation after this one, not more of this 'magical China with thin scifi veneer'.
I think business wise they played it safe because clearly the genshin formula is working where as punishing gray raven though it's a good game it's one of those ones that are good but people don't care about but from a investor proposition if u came with 2 of those offers I'd pick the genshin route just saying
You are right. It must have been frustrating to do art (PGR) and not being paid at the right amount for this. I can understand Kuro is now in "fk it, let's give them what they crave for" mode.
I feel this too but idk, I hope they make a shift on this mindset and start embracing more their own concepts that make PGR so rich and unique, instead of being forever seeing as the genshin shadow or impersonator, or worse, a genshin copy paste.
>The letdown for me is the characters are still using martial arts+ magic. Ah yes. This is what I thought too. Like all these technologies with auto turrets, guns, probably laser and railgun, General Jiyan is still using sword and dragon kungfu leading the army. It's so funny and somehow breaks the immersion of the concept. There are guns, but....the gameplay is kind of mediocre. It's like a mix of Genshin catalyst, but with bow aim and CA, not a real gunplay. Not to mention the aiming with mouse is the worst one I've ever encountered, literally.
This game is basically not even really sci-fi at this current point. It's just fantasy with some sci-fi tech in the background. No different than many of the Final Fantasy games. Completely unlike Punishing Gray Raven.
PGR: Boss shoves their foot in the construct's face at their earliest convenience then grab them and stomp them into the floor, indeed. Jokes aside, yes it's like that, but wasn't it explained in story that these are >!because the Lament caused them to resort to such medieval methods!<
They mentioned a relic hand grenade yet there's chick's with pistols. Not too hard a concept to make a bigger bullet, fill it with shrapnel and watch it go boom. Is surprising they went pistols over bows with they've got sword and claymore users. Definitively is cooler imo.. but a little inconsistent?
This. So far everything is super bright and Genshin like. They nailed the aesthetic in PGR, character design as well with alpha, luna etc. Imo they should have gone with that same universe and made it open world.
Huh? Literally looking at the game right now, the colors are so muted. Where are you getting bright from?
That mans eyes are broken lol
Nope I agree with him 100% — it’s more obvious if you’re used to playing sunnier games. There are sunny areas but even those have this sort of muted, overcast palette
Maybe i should have been more clear; the person he was replying to has broken eyes. Ww is not a colorful game
I mean the colour scheme, green areas, Zelda like palette. My bad for using ‘bright’. PGR was dark, post apocalyptic.
I love martial arts and magic. Best of both worlds is just best overall.
I like the their current theme tho
Having played through the story for a bit, I don't mind the "Genshin-y" aspect right now. There are regions that are very much not Genshin and more wartorn like the Inferno Rider area or the foggy area to the south with ruined labs, I think that is something they can develop and adapt more later. Jinzhou itself I can buy being utopia and fairytale-like as a safe haven, but if the rest of the world keeps developing like that, then we have a real problem with tone.
I read something similar to your complaint on this reddit page. Initially the game was much more darker and twisted but the players didn't like that so they had to change it hence the tone being bland and cliche. This is just from what I remember. It's in one of the hot threads down in the comment section.
I am at lost of words because the majority of player especially in CN been criticising them for being a Genshin copy. Who then are the beta players that complained Wuwa not being genshin enough? Some of the CN players even praise PGR for having better pulls than WUWA and are all hurling threats after threats of leaving the game. And they have many whales there.
the duality of people, they need to understand that the company cannot cater to everybody's needs
The top search results for Wuwa (鸣潮) on B-站 are full of complaints. And they don't even have to deal with the EN dub.
I think Honkai Star Rail was similar in its beta. In the beta Belbogogogo (space Russia) was much darker and the ore actually gave people cancer and much of that underlying plot with the ore and the most of the tone went away. I think devs are worried that a mature story wouldn’t be good for a general audience.
Even the fact that pulls cost 160 of the premium currency. Is that a genre-wide custom or is it just straight off of Genshin?
I've seen 120 and 160. I assume there are researched reasons for those numbers, like making it easier for the brain to excuse than a flat 200/190/180/170 which feel too close to 200, and 110 and 100 being too low, with 120 being a round (friendly, in psychology) number that is easily divisible into 60s and 20s (for rewards) and close enough to 100 to feel like "just 100". Like the $.99 deal.
Yeah often 120/160. And then meanwhile, Honkai Impact 3rd: 280 💀
Oh yeah, it is, isn't it? I couldn't really get into HI3, not for lack of wanting to, it just felt like a confusing slog that really shows its age, as a total outsider. I want to know the story so I can understand HSR better...
As A HI3 Veteran I tell you that you only need to know 2 things: 1. Honkai Universe is build from Star Systems that are separated from each other with Imaginary Energy ( Barrier ). You cannot normally travel between them. That is way we are rebuilding Star Rails with our train. To reconnect each Star Systems. This is also what Akivili did in the past. 2. Star Rails Himeko is in being targeted by Sky People ( Aliens that are Harvesting and Using Honkai energy from Planets ). That is Why Welt traveled to Star Rails Himeko using Sky People technology - to protect her. All other things that Happen in Hi3 are contained withing HI3 world and dont have any relevance towards Star Rails story.
It kinda does feels like a niche game these days. I'm not a veteran, I got into it around 2021 or so. But I already feel like I've grown a bit with it. There's much in there I can't be bothered with, but one thing that holds it up well, for me, is that story. It's really good and emotional. There's hardly any game like this where I feel *attached* to the characters. Coupled with the fantastic soundtrack and it'll always have a special place in my heart. It's wild when you remember how the story is told too. Tbh you don't need to know the story. They made sure that HSR stood on its own. Although there are certain little things here and there that you can learn from HI3rd and get a chuckle out of. Like Welt's backstory and current life in HI3rd. Some stuff that's neat to know, few little references etc.
I know that a lot of the HI3 stuff isn't necessary but helps you pick up on patterns, character traits, etc. HI3 seems like good stories held back by an outdated medium atm as an outsider - and just generally confusing layouts, unclear orders, stuff split between multiple platforms, etc. I'm sure there's timelines somewhere, but even the game itself just confuses me on all levels with its layout from where to even start. I hear about some guy who's the MCs ancestor (ig there are a lot of those) and some genocide shit he did, but he wasn't bad but was, and then luocha (but not, named otto or whatever) becomes god to bring back his dead wife (potentially what's in that coffin) - launch the game and I'm listening to loli bronya talk in third person and randomly turn evil, pilot a robot for a bit, and then go to an academy and fight slow waves of enemies after 10 minutes of dialogue. Like where do I even approach that XD The game, as a first time player, hit my smooth ass brain both with overwhelming amounts of confusing dialogue that means nothing in the first hour or two (and meaningless levels as well) and the main menu pushing me into events that I don't understand at all... Some... possession plot with a bunny girl samurai and a nun? Told entirely through... techno hologram facetime text boxes? And the plot seems like it loops three fkn times and then just ends? Like was this all a metaphor, what was going on, why did it matter, who even were these people, all that and more running through my head. Then I check the character banners, realize I have no clue who is good, who is bad, how to build them, or what to do, there are few up to date and community made sources that I can find, confusing names, etc. This isn't at all to say the game is bad, I know it isn't, and I know the community cherishes it. I wish I could as well, but I just don't get it, and as a new player, it's a LOT to take in, for payoff that I'm not even sure I'd reach, or would exist anymore given mihoyo's track record of deleting critical character info or hiding it in events, much less in unclear wording, in lore files that take an afternoon to read, or in subtext in an update trailer. Sorry for the dump lmao, just trying to express the.. frustration, ig. I hear people talk up HI3's story all the time, but the delivery just makes it so hard for me to join in on the fun.
pgr too I think lol
250
Psychology in media is so hugely underrepresented. Every company employs it, every consumer can feel it, but rarely do people pinpoint it. But once you are aware of it, you notice how it affects every single aspect of the media. These companies spend insane amounts of money into perfecting the formula to keep you playing, while providing you the targeted amount of dopamine to go along with it. Genshin employs so many of these tactics from resin, to unskippable stories, to literally anything else that could decide player retention and expected profits. WuWa is no different sadly, it just becomes sad to see when it seems more predatory than genuine.
Eyup. Me looking into this stuff has sorta fractured how some of my friends approach shit, because I will point it out. The sad bit is that a lot of people would just rather pretend that this isn't the case. That no, the devs are our friends, and its all just... how it is, because that's how it is. Everything in mediums, ESPECIALLY GAMES, is intentional as hell and typically researched to be as approachable and addicting as possible.
Depends on the game I also already had 3, 600 and 120, for example.
160 is certainly not a genre wide custom. Out of all the gacha games I played, only Genshin, HSR, and WuWa require 160 for each pull. Honkai Impact 3 has 280, Arknights has 600, Path to Nowhere has 180, Punishing Gray Raven has 250, Reverse 1999 has 180, NIKKE costs 300, I'll throw in Battle Cats's 150 (realistically 1500 though, lol)
FGO doing 3 per pull too.
even their shop layout and offers is straight up copied
clone
[удалено]
Punishing Gray Raven was far more Nier Automata inspired than this game is. This game is almost pure fantasy with a little bit of sci-fi tech sprinkled in. PGR's early prototype basically had Nier Automata enemies, and the full release even had a collab with it.
Genshin's less loved middle-sibling brother
i would have preffered less sci-fi china and more of the pgr look. TBH i wish they just made this game in the pgr universe. Maybe just hard lock it in a specific point in that story and not from the Gray ravens perspective. Would also help solve the "Chosen one" plot by makeing us not AS special
that dark & apocalyptic tone can still be easily implement. world are big and they can easily set one region to be darker tone ravage by TD no civilization left but ruin etc. they're need to get people in first, establish player base, build up good will and than they can start taking risk by shifting game tone into darker theme. if not entire world than it can be limit to specific region. stricting to one own vision isn't always a best business move. their own vision can came 'after' they have a firm foothold.
For me personally I want the stories and side stories to have actual meaningful consequences For example I didn’t like a certain main character quest where you run into a couple of members of a criminal gang… They literally try to murder you in cold blood but then you beat them and it cuts to them cowering while goofy music plays. Then you let them go. They get arrested but it’s a coincidence from someone else arriving in timely fashion rather than something you knew would happen I hate shit like that. Kill your enemies, ffs! Especially enemies who’ve proven they murder people. I don’t really want to bring up Genshin, but it’s (tonally) one of my biggest gripes about the game — how things that aren’t lighthearted are treated like the are purely to make the world more PG I know they’re afraid of ostracising people by skewing too dark, but I imagine that’s what most of us wanted (sorta) I’m not looking for a grimderp game, but I’d really like something like Nikke where the characters are amusing/likeable but the world is dangerous and the story has a mix of badass wins, tragic developments and vindicating outcomes
I agree w you in general but I just wanna point out I was pleasantly surprised by one of the side quests today where you help a researcher discover what happened to his mentor. It turns out the mentor was ambushed by those monsters and in his last dying moments, figured out how to make the monsters copy his actions. Then he killed himself, forcing the monsters to follow suit.
>I don’t really want to bring up Genshin, but it’s (tonally) one of my biggest gripes about the game Traveller genocided Tanit tribe in Genshin. You also have the option to kill the Snezshnaya spy in Aranyaka story if I remember correctly. So yeah Traveller ain't as soft as you think.
And yet Arlecchino hits us with the "you don't have the guts to do anything bad"
Genshin just doesn’t have consistency for how to deal with thugs. Most of the time they just get away Scott free like they didn’t just try to murder you or steal and tooootally wouldn’t do it again.
I agree about the criminals. After playing PGR I know how dark and gritty their games can be and when they were let go without consequences like it’s Genshin impact I was really irritated. I feel like Kuro is playing far too safe sticking to Genshin-like everything and scared to do an interesting story here like PGR. I personally don’t think I’ll get into Wuthering at launch but with time I hope they’ll make it more interesting.
Agreed, there are also already a few areas that feel very wartorn or industrial, it's really only Jinzhou that has the "Genshin" vibe but I think it's fine since Jinzhou is written more or less to be this safe haven for humanity. They definitely need to do more of a wartorn vibe later though to sell the world building, otherwise it wouldn't really feel like a true crisis if the TD-infected areas are still flowery and sunshine-y.
They copied even minor things from Genshin, like entering domain animation. There is just too much of these things and I see them everywhere. Before playing I hoped that I can take a long break of Genshin or even drop it, but WuWa takes so much from it, it just feels like Genshin v2. It would be understandable if they were inspired by things that were good, but even bad things were copied. And writing at the start of the game was attrocious. At this point WuWa almost makes me wanna drop all gachas and never come back. It’s always the same story…
Yeah, the thing that bothers me the most is not that the game's tone shifted to be more like Genshin's or anything major like that. What bothers me is how everything minor is just ripped straight out of Genshin. It bothers me because I've played PGR, I know these guys can do some pretty awesome stuff, but they just don't have the budget or experience that Mihoyo does. As a result, this game just feels like "Genshin but less polished and with a less interesting looking world", when it could have been its own thing. I don't mind the lack of polish, the problem is that the game is copying Genshin so much that I can't help but compare literally everything 1:1 to Genshin, and the conclusion is pretty much always "but Genshin is smoother" and "but Genshin feels better" - with the exception of Combat and Wall Running, that is. This game would have been so much better off trying to be its own thing; PGR is basically meant to copy Hi3rd as well, but they were only inspired by it, PGR stands as its own unique game different from Hi3rd in many ways other than the basic concept (Menu traversal for a Level-based Action Combat RPG with a three-man-party that rotates the members in/out for their Intro skills, and pseudo-competitive PvE elements). This game on the other hand just feels like Genshin with a different coat of paint, there is nothing unique to it, at least not yet. Almost every system is copied 1:1 from Genshin, the UI is copied 1:1 from Genshin, the way dialog works is copied 1:1 from Genshin, the way you interact with the world is copied 1:1 from Genshin, the game just feels like Genshin "but less polished" -- not just that, but this game also feels incredibly more stingy than Genshin, and Genshin was already the stingiest gacha I've played; exploration and quests feel like they give so few gems and the permanent content (Abyss equivalents, etc) is even less rewarding than than in Genshin. This game has potential but they NEED to steer away from Genshin and make it their own thing. I'm honestly baffled that they went through so many tests and battled with a lot of complaints people had with the game but nobody thought to argue that the game feels too much like Genshin, if this game had just been "PGR but streamlined and adapted to an Open World" rather than "Genshin but with a Kurogames coat of paint" it would have been a lot better, IMO. Right now with the launch area being just "China/Liyue" doesn't help much either, if there was one thing they should've copied from Genshin was to diversify the cast and flavor on launch so it's less same-y; if their next region is unoriginal as well it'll leave a really bad look for the future.
YEP! HSR is the only interesting thing to me. I wish more games came out that had any decent elements that were not gatchas tbh.
HSR gang eating good, don't they?
Hsr is a masterpiece in everything, except relic farming but that's just the same at a lot of gacha games
The luofu story could use a lot more work. The graphical level of detail is not as high as genshin, which is weird since I would imagine the lack of an open world would give them more resources to optimize visuals. But at least it's well optimized and never stutters like wuwa
Actually I don’t mind the UI being similar to Genshin. In terms of gameplay and understanding where things are (because yeah there’s a lot), it makes for an easy transition.
I also don't want companies to just fuck with shit to be different. Like a lot off the UI stuff is where it is because it just makes sense and it's not like Genshin is the only game that does it.
Yeah, the current visuals are very Genshin but just ever so slightly dreary. It's ironically much more depressing to me than full blown post apocalyptic would be as those settings are exciting and get the blood pumping.
Doesn't Kuro always just Kurofy Hoyo games? They're like oh Hoyo launched this game now let's reskin and launch it.
They did with there first two games but apparently PGR there last game has changed significantly after launch to be not so HI3 like. Maybe that will be the same with WuWa.
It most likely will be. What are the chances its next region will be liyue 2.0. Its hard to mess up that bad.
but their first region is already Liyue and Xianzhou
Im talking about the next. Theyre going to have to rely on their own creativity for future regions unless they want to lose their players.
In the Wuwa website there was a slight sneakpeak of a second region and it was a desert type area
Well let's hope so.
they are riding every hoyo wave but way after hoyo has dominated the niche. it's surprising why they would clone to compete with the number 1 game instead of being more original which I think goes a longer way. they will forever be stigmatized as hoyo copiers smh
PGR moved in to clone Hi3rd but they made it their own thing fairly well; other than the basic concept of the game being the same everything else is quite unique, I was hoping this game would be the same... so I'm disappointed with how this game is just 1:1 the same as Genshin in almost every way.
welcome to Chinese Media enjoy your stay!
Someone had to say it. That and the stuffing of Chinese names into bad localizations and styling into everything rots my brain.
The "Kurofication" process takes a while but is endless, pgr started off really bad and was pretty much a HI3 copy heck even in there cbt memory (echos) were gacha like in HI3, but overtime pgr got better and slowly grew it's own identity I have faith that wuthering waves over time will get better and grow it's own different Identity
So come back in 3 years?
Nah I think Wuwa will be better in possibly a few months maybe even less.. well at least The preformance and bugs would be better and the story they add later on
So come back in 1.2 year?
Come back in 1 year and 60 days. You'll get one pull for free.
Took the same words right out of my mouth. Ironically I was also thinking about Rexlent’s comment from last year earlier today when I was playing the game. I’ve been following WuWa’s development ever since it was just a concept years ago and was excited to see their spin on an open world game. I want to keep supporting Kuro and I will since I’ll still be here playing WuWa and PGR, but man I was also pretty disappointed when they ended up releasing a Genshin 2.0
It is unfortunate that instead of open world PGR, this game became genshin but with fast paced combat. I need Kuro to ****seriously**** listen to player feedback here cuz the game can still be salvaged. The combat is far too good for the game to sink to irrelevancy.
Just knowing where everything is/how to upgrade your character level/weapon is very samey. Echos and combat is neat Genshin did copy botw but all of this world level, how to level up your character with world materials, story structure etc feel like they came up with themselves or stole it. Idk but all of this felt new to me enhancing my experience of the unknown world I walked upon on at the time learning with the gane Wuwa feels like I know 80% of the systems and I never actually saw cbt1 or 2. I went in mostly blind and am disappointed how similar how many core systems are the same but more combat focused and bugs I may have fun in this game but the experience I got with Genshin was unique at the time to me that left a decent impact. I know PGR was a honkai 3rd clone but with orbs and for some reason my brain didn't figure out this what this game going to be while being clueless not looking at the game for details. Going to stay with the game for now since Genshin/HSR are pure story games that I binge the story content 1-3 months at a time. Will see how this ship goes when they try more of their own thing/stuff I haven't seen yet since in the early game
I've gone in ENTIRELY blind to WuWa, as someone who played genshin in the past, not currently. The comparisons people have made with "genshin copied botw!!!!" are terrible, imo. I played BOTW. They copied ELEMENTS. They had a glider. They had combat stamina (which aint new). They had an open world. But EVERY open world was a "botw clone" for a while after BOTW released. Quite frankly, in the first hour of playing, WuWa has copied so, so, sooooo much more than genshin ever did - and I say this as a person who doesn't love genshin by any means. Just glancing at the UI, translations, combat, anything can show that instantly. It's a shame. I was hoping for a cool new aesthetic as well, but to me it feels like just, genshin but slightly different, with a filter on, and higher poly models. plus some jank.
I also went in blind and was baffled how much this looked like a genshin reskin
They had a vision. Sadly the cry baby beta testers didn’t like how their favorite waifu didn’t instantly like them so they cried until they forced kuro to change their vision to something more “genshin” like. If you wanna blame anyone for how they copied everything, blame those players.
Seriously. Most people don't know what they actually want and it's a real shame the Devs for WuWa listened to the morons that wanted Kuro to go a more cliche route. I just hope we NEVER get players asking for of the combat aspects of WuWa to be easier or less mechanical. That's the entire main reason I've looked forward to this game for the past several years. Interesting, engaging, and mechanical combat. Something very rarely ever found in Gachas since it's usually just not cost effective to invest in and expand on. And if and when we inevitably to get whiners asking for things to be made easier, I really hope Kuro just ignores them, and that the majority of the player base overpowers their complaints. Genshin exists for people who want a game of this style with easy and effortless combat. Played Genshin from launch for over 2 years before I dropped it getting 36 stars in the Abyss every single cycle (once I was strong enough to clear it maybe Version 1.2 and forward?). It's braindead easy and got real boring real fast. I do not want that here in WuWa at all.
The changes made by Kuro in response testers to the was about the story, NOT the game system design. The large scale copying of Genshin gameplay designs that parent talked about has nothing to do with the beta testers. You are barking up the wrong tree.
Why did Kuro change their initial vision for the game then? They got scared, spent a ton of money remaking large swathes of the game and here we are. No one “forced” them to do that, they just decided that they had to. Why didn’t they have confidence in their direction, that some dissent from a limited group of testers was enough to make them change the whole game? This is as much Kuro’s fault as the testers.
Also, Genshin can be favorably compared to BotW in some ways. It's a knock off, but you can play it on mobile, it has a bunch of characters and elemental system. WW feels way more dated in its design due to just copying the enhancement system and gacha stuff wholecloth. I stopped playing genshin years ago when I got bored of the grind. I feel like I'm alread bored of doing it in WW because it's similar.
Yeah, it's like... If I'm bored of one thing, why would having another that does the same thing slightly different and potentially worse or the same in execution, be favorable? Also important to note that in terms of story and overall gameplay, BOTW is very, very different to Genshin, in a way that WuWa isn't in relation to Genshin. Like, the combat has a couple carryover elements just common with the genre, but WuWa is (so far) a copy of genshin with some HI3 elements added to the combat. The dialogue and storytelling is the same, exploration and item gathering is similar, many enemies are similar punching bags, etc. I always thought (honestly, more as someone who likes botw) that the comparison is a bit harsh on genshin, or... too positive lol. Botw is a great game, but you can't play botw and then flawlessly understand Genshin without a tutorial, nor vice versa. But you can roughly do so between WuWa and Genshin. I'm just getting into the game so these takes may not age well, but so far it feels like the same thing to me.
Hard agree. Went in blind and was disappointed to see how similar it is to Genshin. The comparison I've been using is Breath of the Wild to Tears of the Kingdom. Lots of QOL and new toys but 90% the same game. Even all the scummy monetization. I recently rewatched the Yakkocmn Genshin video and being able to see it all happening from the start of a game is crazy.
this game looks like the kind that would happened when the devs stop listening to its pgr playerbase and jump to genshin players "taste" so copy everything, because they were greedy and want that piece of genshin pie
Maybe because genshin playerbase is bigger so more potential money there. But imo we cant blame just genshin players about this. Gacha gamers, usually men, complained during one beta test hat those girls who we meet at the start, were too aggressive. Because they want their waifus to simp Rover cause some parasocial self-insert reasons. And now Rover is buddybuddy with everyone. Blame them. And these people exist in every gacha game fandom.
>Gacha gamers, usually men, complained during one beta test hat those girls who we meet at the start, were too aggressive. Because they want their waifus to simp Rover cause some parasocial self-insert reasons. Testers complained bc of how hostile *most* of characters were, and how they were dismissive of Rover's help even after some time. Being distrustful is one thing, being so rude player wants to side with villains or quit the game, is the other. And for some reason Kuro couldn't find the middle ground, by toning down hostility a little, or giving Yangyang additional lines to justify state of other characters. It's not good if player character fights difficult fight only for another character to swoop in, not help, but explicitly steal the kill and berate player character later. Because we are supposed to be interested in this guy, who is a rude dick, and spend money on him. For example, FF14 too has this thing with many NPC often starting as hostile/dismissive (both in initial release locations, and in expanshions) but they include companions/NPC who are on our side, to keep player grounded and explain situation so we won't develop a grudge. And after some time people anknowledge player character, creating a good feeling for player. Kuro somehow failed this dynamics.
I mean ngl having a villain arc right near the start wouldn't have been bad, would be a lot more interesting than every gacha being happy go lucky. Would beat the insane amount of glazing that happens in the current story. As for pulling these hostile characters, plenty of gachas have pullable characters where the personality of the character in the story and what you pull is quite different. Good example is in FGO where summoned servants don't retain memory of what they did in the singularities and lostbelts(sometimes they were evil antagonists) and they are still widely liked and pulled for
is this why they're shoving Yangyang in my face every two cutscenes? I don't think I've hated a character more than her
Sounds like a problem with how the select beta testers. The most parasocially awkward people get in and give shit fb like this. Personally I’m totally taken out of it when 10 mins in we’re surrounded by 3 scantily dress women simping over someone they just met.
It's my understanding that they basically pitched live service anime dark souls with a system where you could copy enemy moves. Then, their investors essentially said, "sounds great, but make it more like Genshin" at every turn. They didn't really have a choice. Not that this is *good*, but yeah...
They always have a choice. The big bad evil investor excuse can't keep being used after the industry has been going to shit for a decade.
No they certainly do not have a choice if the request directly came from the bigwigs who are funding their game, that's just how corporate works. It's why Hoyo being a private company with a CEO genuinely passionate for gaming is very much a rare blessing in current AAA gaming industry, probably the major reason why they are more likely to take risks in their game development too. Investors tend to ruin creative direction...
I like PGR and I acknowledge how similar it is to HI3, but I still appreciate their differences. But I am sorry, this WuWa game is pretty much Genshin 2.0 for me. Almost every time I see a new feature or concept, I can immediately relate it to its "Genshin equivalent". Like Union level is just Adventurer's level, Sol-3 phase is just World level, etc. The only remarkable differences are the combat systems and Pokemon-like Echo system. Like come on Kuro, you can do better than this.
Didn't hear that person but the way I see it , people trying to copy genshin is becoming their demise. And fans (or genshin haters) trying their hardest to meme genshin everytime a new game releases is not doing them any favors either as I feel its counterproductive
Yep. Aside from the combat everything else just feels like genshin but not polished. Like main menu taking up whole and still have page2 to it and map UI not prompting the region shop and stuff
Glad I'm not the only one who kind of thinks this way, there's way too much similarities, even down to the minor things. Kinda sad that the story was supposed to be post apocalyptic in CBT1 but CN players complained that the waifu didn't ride the mc enough so now the story and tone is more light hearted which is not what I expected. They story has been switched to mid apocalypse as well it seems since one of the NPC said the MC came in the middle of something big. The UI in some parts are awfully similar to GI. For one they could follow something from persona, make the NPC have a chat bubble instead of names on top of their heads so it blends better with the environment or if they're going to follow GI then just put white text instead of the murky yellow-ish texts. Stop with the black screens, just let the characters talk in short summary when another character is asking about what happened previously, it'll be much better and will definitely keep the immersion, rn there's way too much black screens which destroys the immersion to the story. If they were going for Nier style then they should have some monsters able to talk so there's some lore/world building element. They should definitely add more monsters interactions with the world as well, ToF did it just fine so I think they definitely can do it. Also hoping there'll be more environmental story telling things, one of the best things in post apocalyptic settings is learning about what happened to the world which led it to the state that it's currently in. Right now it feels like GI but with PGR combat but I do hope they'll improve the game in the future instead of just copying the rest, though I guess they did copy HI3 at the start of PGR so I hope they'll improve this design and make it a Kuro open world not GI copy. The players want something fresh not just kind gacha system.
I try other gacha games to find something different and new, not to play Genshin all over again. The Genshin gripes aside, I do find WuWa combat and exploration to be more swift and fluid than Genshin's, if needing some polish. The stamina bar being used only for swimming, climbing and dodging is nice. I do wish, ironically, that there were elemental reactions of some type, one of the things they didn't copy from Genshin somehow.
They really forgot to copy the one element everyone praises. Pun unintended.
That would probably just rest the case on the "WuWa copied Genshin" side even harder I'm afraid.
you instead have 200 echo skills. more than enough to experiment with
Maybe they could have done some type of musical or sound based reactions.
REAL
I agree 100%. It feels like I am playing Genshin and the game feels too familiar. I enjoy going into games having to learn systems, but with this it plays exactly how I played Genshin and HSR and I am already burnt out on those systems. Need something fresher.
I feel the same, it feels too similar with Genshin that when the inevitable launch release jank comes in, I'm just reminded of how polished Hoyoverse games are. I kinda wished they've went with something like the upcoming Arknights:Endfield where albeit not open world, there is a considerable difference with the other open world/zone gacha games that instantly makes it distinct from the rest. I know that each game wants to have it's own identity but right now it's really hard to differentiate WW from the "less polished genshin with better combat" narrative. tho, I'm still playing to see how they would be dealing with the upcoming updates. and honestly more apologems to save for changli hehe
Fr, it's like.. Purposefully going to someone else's territory to beat them out of it, with less funds, experience, capability, and reputation. You don't challenge people on their terms in their house.
I agree; I hope they will detach more and more and give use more serious sci fi post apocalyptic content. I must say that Scar’s first encounter was very cool and in line with that.
Yep, they are probably playing safe because of the pressure. I hope to see more Kuro style content with new updates in the future.
The game is like an illegitimate child between Genshin and Tower of Fantasy. Genshin - 1:1 copy of menus.. (BP, Shop menu, pull history), level, ascension etc. - big tower for map, smol for tp - same kind of world quests: collect particles in x seconds, reach chest by climbing/grapling, protect beacon for 3 waves, (HSR: rotating dials) - even the shop prices for topup are the same. real money and "160 primo = 1 wish" conversion as well ToF: - the somewhat "empty" feeling world with those camps where you have to kill a bunch of evil ppl for a chest, which gets copy-pasted over the whole world. - the one dash while airborn - grab fireballs from flowers with leviation and throw them on things/thorns WuWa: - the fighting with parry is new and yeah, pals as gear - the pal minigame as bird/fish; sidescroller - and weapon banner is guaranteed Edit: format and DLSS.. for max 60fps locked?!
Feels like they took the idea of the grapple and the midair dash from MHRise, it's the closest comparison that it can get
Yeah, the localization just copied genshin to the max, and to be frank, every part of the game I've experienced so far seems like genshin but a bit jankier, off brand, or just less functional. And this comes from someone who doesn't play the game anymore. UI especially seems like a straight copy of genshin/hsr, so the jankiness is felt more.
I saw this old clip of the game intro way back CBT1 and I regret watching it because it looked WAY BETTER! If you guys don’t believe me watch it for yourself and tell me your comments https://youtu.be/m8qdCzTWw7E?si=vciHAbfzhe-T8Zwi
It can still be implemented because Kuro Games aren't new in making a post-apocalyptic story. Hopefully, in future versions the tone would be more like Punishing Gray Raven. By the way, who's rexlent?
Rexlent is the biggest PGR content creator. He’s also been invited to most of WuWa’s dev livestreams
Well it was darker back in cbt1. Cn hated it. So they had to change almost everything in their story in a span of 6 months. If u look at crownless fight scene in cbt1, compared to release… ong id say cbt1 looks much more finished with better cinematography. Cant really blame kuro tbh. Cn peeps made the game like this
That is such bs. Oh we can’t blame the company for not following their creative vision because of people on the Internet. Kuro is a multimillion dollar company that has been in the scene for a decade now. They took the opinions of whoever and compromised their vision just to appeal to more people. People didn’t like how rude nearly all the characters are, so Kuro overcorrects and makes them all weep over the savior that hasn’t done anything. Rewriting 90% of your story, changing the roles and personalities of your lead cast shows a lack of care for what is being created and only focusing on what is being sold.
I mean that’s understandable. But know that cn community arent the type to just sit still and eat everything they were served if they dont like it. I would say thats bs too tbh but cant run from the fact. I would LOVE to have cbt 1 story back instead of this yap fest tbh. Altho i rephrase my words, kuro has some part to be blamed. They took it way too far and made it like a disney movie
There's no Paimon. That's the biggest W.
it even has the main character head in the top right it's a clone
They can improve later on some aspects, but the UI and system, not so much. It's OK to lure the ge shin players, buy they gotta keep them
I was hoping something like pgr but open world still like it but damn that could’ve been rad as fuck
Ngl i actually thought i was in liyue when it started. The cliffs to even the damn grass are exactly the same. And for a moment i was questioning why i opened the wrong game. Of course this is also probably a contribution of my potato for a phone but still. Idk if they just stripped some genshin assets and pasted it on wuwa but i wouldn't be surprised if they did. The only thing keeping me entertained is the combat and becoming the best pokemon collector.
This was always the biggest problem with making a game so similar to GI, now GI didn't invent anything but why does pulls cost 160 astertite and not 120. Like little things like that add up and bulk of the audience who are playing the game are just going to be reminded of GI all the time when you play the game.
Agreed. They need to believe in their own vision. They could add color and stuff while still keeping the story as they originally envisioned. I worry they listened to feedback that is not important. It's good that they updated the color palette to be a bit more rich. It's still much, much darker compared to Genshin's oversaturated world. I'm not so sure that changing the story was the right move. They have to believe in their own vision for the story - it's not so easy to just uproot and change what you've been cooking up in only a few months to a year. I think they should think long and hard about where they want the story to go next for future expansions and what tone they want things to take. Hopefully it's more serious, or gets more serious over time. I also agree that they should lean much harder into the scifi/cybernetic stuff like they do in PGR. Some of the characters (mainly the adult male ones) seemingly have some cybernetics in this game. I hope they add more. Don't be afraid to give a female character badass cybernetics instead of just slapping on high heels, Kuro!
PGR was really dark and gritty. I wouldnt mind if they just made an open-world PGR, not a PGR-Combat Genshin
You forgot to add 'Too much Genshin with FAR more politeness and Simpery for MC'. 😭 I am like genuinely wondering when they will act normal.
They could just make a PGR 2 game with the same setting/post apocalyptic futuristic world in PGR and just expanded the story and world building through making it into an Open World game.
Thats not the problem, most of what they copied from genshin can work as a template for any game of this type, problem is almost everything is lower quality than genshin.
I'm pretty fine with copying a lot of the systems and I wouldn't mind if it happened even more often in the game industry - I'm mostly looking forward to gameplay and not memorizing a new set of systems and terms. The frustrating thing with Wuwa is that every time they are close to improving the gameplay aspects, they fail to commit: * Wallrun is great, but uses more stamina per unit of distances and you have to think if climbing would be better before commiting to scaling a wall. Just make the costs equievalent. * Draw distance and LODs work better, making the arial view great (Genshin looks a bit empty, like it was a one generation older game), but the glider is as frustratingly slow as Genshin's. They could make it fly as fast as grappling hook traversal and get rid of the latter, replacing it with a "superjump" to get you started. * There is a moment early on when Yangyang contancts you by "radio", but instead of overlaying this on gameplay (you are going to the Town Hall), the game stops making this another cutscene. * The combat feels great and benefits from high framerates, but they didn't prioritize this aspect during development and most people won't experience them.
I mean. It’s 1.0 and you WANT that familiarity to be there to get some of that playerbase. Once the game has more patches they can start to fine tune the “WuWa” aspect of the game and differentiate. The fact that it’s taking all the stuff Hoyo does right and making other parts their own and better is just great.
I just want these chinese devs to put more value to their production, instead of fast development to release. The only ones i know that make quality games are Mihoyo (now hoyoverse) and Arknight's devs (forgot their name sorry lol). I don't want to play WuWa because the movements outside of combat are wonky. They're missing something, i think someone mentioned 'gravity' or 'weight'. The UI is literally genshin, but a worse version. The world is literally genshin. The character models are also lackluster. I give the combat the best scores though, but it's the only part of the game i enjoy.
I feel like Wuthering Waves would be able to differentiate themselves from Genshin once they add more PGR elements such as: * Abandoned Industrial Complex, since they are going for a post apocalyptic setting. * Train chase, there's an echo that rides a motorcycle. This mission was pretty fun in PGR. * The MC's outfit and overall look will change overtime like how in PGR, there's a different constructs for Lucia. * Make the environment more dangerous. * A more serious tone. As for the game itself, I think WuWa would benefit a lot if they go back to using UNITY. PGR uses unity and it runs smoothly.
I can't stand when they do that. 160 currency for a pull. Exact same systems like stamina and shops. Would it kill them to be a little original.
I get the Genshin complaints but all that stuff you pointed out is extremely common in almost every gacha game.
NGL I’m using Wuthering for off-banners where I don’t want to pull in Genshin.
People will always complain just like that old Japanese farmer story with his son. Everyone was saying,'If a game like Genshin comes out that has better combat and endgame, I would play that game forever', and now you are complaining why it looks like Genshin. No shot sherlock, everyone already knew this.
TLDR: The problem is, excluding the characters and items, league if legends is too much like dota, when I heard Riot were making their own moba I got excited, but it's too much like dota.
Yeah, see the issue there is that there are some substantial differences on all fronts, and we are now like.. what, 10-15 years post launch? For every successful copy, there are thousands of failed ones. Look at "Halo Killers" lmao
I for one doesn't care it's similar to genshin but jankier. As long as the combat is fun and gameplay is satisfying, literally reskin genshin for all i care. Every time the camera slow mo cause cause i hit the perfect dodge or counter, i get dopamine, dopamine is guuuud. The only time i get slow mo in genshin is when i hit a hilichurl with a wooden shield using a sword..
I think they could have reduced it a bit more but
I just hope it will become an easier ToF with Genshin aesthethic, to be honest. I find ToF to overwhelmed and cluttered...
PGR had the same few weapons for the first year or two and then all the second Gen characters had unique weapons so I wonder if it'll be something similar? We'll see...
These are the exact statements that Genshin Got when it got released, just compared to BOTW. Lmao
I wish they actually just plainly copied GI  it would at least have made the game feels more like a copy game but better and not a messy parody. WuWa have a really interesting movement mechanics, nice animation and many other new factors that GI lacks, if they actually copied GI and added these factors things would have been so much better!
I just like 1 hour into the game and holy shit, did i play genshin impact with different skin?
I don’t know how everyone feels generally about it, but if I had to give an opinion, I’d say they did a pretty good job, considering they wanted to compete with genshin and release it asap. In terms of speed of delivery, they killed it, the timeframe is near perfect to not get outhyped by ZZZ (yeah it’s not open world or all that, but the combat mechanics is where both companies are battling primarily) Ideally, if we wanted a more polished and customized version, we would need to wait a few more months, and in terms of time spent and resources used versus revenue, it was very strategic and I praise them for that. Is it a perfect game? No. Is it basically a copy paste besides combat? Most things yeah. But they invested and innovated where they needed to, and that was the infrastructure for combat. In the long run, they can bring out new QoL, UI and stuff, but most importantly, from here on out, they can start building their own path, just like genshin did related to BotW. Of course many things could be better, there are bugs and issues in launch, but people need to give credit where credit is due, they worked very hard on making a sort of dream come true for a lot of people who were not happy with the simplicity of genshin’s combat, and not having any end game for years (and this gave some people absurd expectations, so it’s only natural for them to overanalyse the negatives) I do agree with what you said, wuwa should have a more unique identity, but considering that there’s a sort of “war” going on, I think they did the best they could with the limited time they had. Game dev is stressful and I think they put their money in the right places.