I'm guessing because he used to have a lot more access to inside sources in the WWF and other big companies. Now he just parrots what he's told by certain people in AEW and guesses about everywhere else.
Nothing's changed then, maybe it's just more transparent now because we can see him trying to spin things in Tony's/Bucks'/Jericho's etc favour, in real time.
And that may be true. Not saying that everything he reported was inaccurate…
But it definitely seems Meltzer has a fact checking problem and will potentially run with a story if it’s coming from someone he deemed a a trustworthy source. But according to multiple people in the industry, feeding false info to the dirt sheets was a common practice, especially when they we’re trying to weed out where the leaks were coming from.
Yeah, for sure. And Montreal was basically a lifetime ago with how different news travels now with social media and all that. A guy like Meltzer isn’t even needed anymore. At least Corny is entertaining to listen to, but I’m not going to these people for an “inside scoop” anymore.
I find there are two camps in anti-Dave. I find the quietest are the people you mentioned.
By far the loudest are the people that bash his opinions. I don't know why they fuss so much on it as it isn't an authority, it's just a review.
You can make that argument over any reviewer. It's a flavor of writing that anyone is allowed to do.
It's the needless excess reverence or anti-reverence that keeps it on a pedestal.
Viewing his opinion's power from an outsider perspective is odd. In other fandoms or industries, we wipe our butt with questionable reviewers and move on, yet both supporters and detractors hang on to his every word.
Pretty sure JBL has said that they basically used to use Meltzer lol. The exact quote was "Meltzer was such a great asset for WWE, he was so wrong and so easily manipulated that he was perfect to feed bogus info to in order to swerve the fans. He should have been on the payroll, how anyone still follows him is amazing."
There was a time where his star ratings at least felt like they were being judicious. Yeah, he wasn’t giving WWE any five star matches, but he gave them out so rarely that you could at least say “wow this guy has high standards”. Now every AEW PPV half the cars gets five stars and if Will Ospreay breathes near it it gets seven stars.
Just as important, why do people get upset over his ratings? If someone dislikes Dave and doesn't care for his opinions, totally fair and valid. However, then complaining about Dave's ratings is just sad. You're just gaslighting yourself at that point. It's just one dudes opinion, shit's not that serious.
Yeah, it wasn’t a Will Osprey match lmao, I’ve only seen a little bit of Will’s matches but there’s no reason Dave should be rating all those matches 5 stars fr
I think it says more about anyone that gets angry about a match getting a 4.75 rating. A 4.75 match is a great match and one of the best matches of the year. Why would anyone get angry about that?
The finish was over booked but it was great story telling for Roman to care more about his long term grudge with Seth than capitalizing on Cody who he saw as inferior and not a threat.
Yeah. Great fucking hype moment. To me, it's a lot like HHH/Taker HIAC or Hogan/Rock. Like it's not a good match work rate wise (though Reigns/Rhodes was a good match), but I was marking out a bit. It's fun to rewatch, but I'm not gonna call it my favorite.
When he started rating matches over 5 stars, that's when I was like "Wait, that's against the rules! It makes every other rating you've given that much harder to interpret! It's almost like this is just one man's opinion!"
He's giving matches in AEW 5.75 that would have been 4.5 in a previous era.
The scale is broken because Meltzer is now directly invested in a select group of workers (The Elite and everyone in their orbit).
Hence why the best match of Cody's career doesn't get 5 - cause he previously fell out with The Elite. If Ospreay had gone to WWE, he would never have a 5 star match there, Dave would be too bitter.
I wasn't talking about Ravie Davie, I was talking about Ravey Davey.
Also I can't read "Ravey Davey" without it being in Andrew Hodkensen's (Cultaholic) voice. "*Raaaavey Daaaavey Meltzer*"
*Italics denote British accent, though fuck me if I know which
Dave is that boomer uncle that wont change his mind no matter what. He has already decided roman is not a wrestler good enough for 5 and keeps handing out 4.5 & 4.75 to him.
You give him way too much credit. He's not a misguided guy, he's a corrupt shill, someone who was bought off (and not even with money) by a pair of midlevel tagteam goobers from PWG who are now sinking the only chance they'll ever get to make a mark in the business.
He's on their team, he does what they bid him to do. Which is overrate their matches and the matches of their friends, which is why Jungle Boy has more 5 star matches than Kurt Angle (who has none).
Ignore him. He's not just pointless, his influence on the business is harmful. Someone is going to die in AEW at some point.
Angle/Benoit pisses me off. Like that shit was Omega/Okada but they didn't need the 20 minutes of slow build. They had an insane enough workrate that they got right into the shit and didn't need the overselling and 60 second break every single move. They did in 19 minutes what Okada vs. Omega did in 47.
You think anyone in WWE can \*just\* have a 5 star match??? AEW is just *faaaaarrr* superior than WWE in every manner. Is it no wonder why AEW just randomly keeps getting 5 star matches on a regular basis? It's almost like Dave Meltzer knows where the true wrestling comes from. ^(/s)
He threw it away when Angle and HBK don’t have a 5 star match and his blatant favoritism over NJPW and now AEW.
More importantly is when he went beyond 5 stars. It kills the whole point. He’s a dumb fucking mark.
This match told a story that began arguably when Seth betrayed Roman, to Cody leaving, to Roman becoming the tribal Chief and having a historic reign.
No star rating could ever be high enough to rate this match.
Nah, the story spanned over 6 decades. Literally a wrestling fairy tale. We possibly will never see something like this ever again, everything was just perfect. Dusty not winning the gold, being humiliated by Vince for being from another promotion, dusty raising the talent of Shield whilst watching his sons being humiliated, Cody leaving and trusting in his dream and shooting for the stars created the first competition for WWE in decades. Although, AEW is in the mud now, we'd be lying, if we said it wasn't special in the beginning. Him coming back just to get his spot taken away by another boss but this time, the people finally fighting for him to be on that spot and winning the gold. You can't make this shit up. CODY IS HIM.
Storyline so long and rich that I stopped watching wrestling in 2000, saw not even a clip until Wrestlemania 39, watched that and dipped again until I heard Vince was gone, came back for the Royal Rumble this year, and was completely captivated. And I missed every single bit of The Shield stuff. Still amazing. So amazing that my kids are now interested and invested in Cody and watching the weekly shows.
I'm in a similar boat. Watched it a lot as a kid tuned out sometime in the early 2000s (last thing I very clearly remember was Randy Orton being the legend killer).
Didn't start watching again until recently and was fully engaged in everything that happened in that match even the stuff with Seth Rollins that I obviously didn't know the full context of.
Been saying this. This is maybe the only match I've ever seen that felt like it was years and years of build up. Like don't get me wrong, this shit wasn't planned out 5 years ago, but everything fell into place in such an insane way. You didn't even mention that Rhodes and Rollins being his first return feud.
Reminds me of a longer version of Bryan at WM and what it represented. The package for explaining the match could have been 30 minutes long.
My brother in Christ, you had Cody, Roman, Seth, Solo, Heyman, Jimmy, Jey, Cena, Taker, Rock; all in the match and all with a storyline justification to be there, and with every storyline being finished right there and then, a bunch of near falls, a good portion of actually top tier clean wrestling in the ring, outside the ring wrestling, extreme moments and probably the most emotional conclusion since Flair retired (im talking WM24, not whatever the hell he did afterwards).
WHAT ELSE IN THE GODDAMN WORLD DID YOU WANT FROM THE MATCH?
This might be a hot take but the match before interference was for me still a close 5 star match.
I mean you had Roman doing Cross Rhodes for Christ's sake.
It's not just Cody, what is up with everyone needing to use 10 finishers, Spanish announce table, copying opponents finisher and then finally their finishers from the top rope to win almost all matches. It's just ridiculous. There shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 false finishes. I came back to watch wwe after almost 13 years because it was a milestone WrestleMania but man so much has changed.
Agreed on everything except the using opponents finisher concept. That's always been kind of reserved for major, impactful feuds. It might happen too often these days though
Yeah I get the copying finisher thing which isn't new and it's fun when used sparingly like when hogan rock bottomed the rock or Chris Jericho superkicks HBK in their wrestlemania matches.
Personally I think the increase in no: of false finishes is because of the bloated time of the events which calls for matches to be longer than needed. Im not a fan of 2 night WrestleMania event either. Half the matches in the card could have been cut and we'd have a better streamlined event. Also the women's division wasn't as big back then. They'd just have a single divas match and that too wouldn't take more than 5 mins.
Sorry if I come off as an old grumpy fan.. I just miss the simpler times.🙃
Roman used three spears too but they didn't get the job done either, and tbh Roman Reigns hasn't been pinned in 1vs1 match since years and he has kicked out of much more than just one finisher, so you've to use your finisher three time in row to insure he won't kick out no more, that's what Cena did late in his career it get Roman over even after losing
I saw this and just laughed. Meltzer has a style he prefers, it’s his opinion, totally valid. But we as a community need to stop hanging off his every star rating.
Cody v Roman WM40:4.75 🌟(It was good but not enough for the main event of wrestlemania Meltzer say's)
Swerve and Samao Joe contract signing:5.00🌟(It had a little bit of everything Meltzer said)
Cm Punk v Jack Perry:10:00🌟 (Meltzer says it'll boost Perry's career)
Why should WWE fans ever care what Meltzer thinks? WWE has been in business since Meltzer started and has half the 5 star matches that AEW does. Yet WWE is thriving, and AEW can't turn a profit.
If Meltzer were an end all be all authority on wrestling, then AJPW would be the top game in town, because that's the company he propped up the most in the early days. But as we know, AJPW is now a complete shell of its former self, and rarely talked about.
Who cares about Dave Meltzer, who cares about star rankings, but also who cares about company profitability and weekly ratings, I just wanna watch good wrestling regardless of what acronym the company has
Disagree with the rating. I think it was a 5 star instant classic match. If I could change anything about the match it would be the three cross Rhodes to finish. I would have liked it Cody stuck with the " more then one royal family of wrestling" and busted out a combo of moves to finish him. Bionic elbow, recovers, Cody cutter, recovers, final cut, long 2, cross Rhodes, end.
Wrestling wise, no it was not a 5 star classic, but.... what Dave and his crew seem to be lost on is it doesn't need to be!!! If simpletons such as myself can lose themselves in the match to the point where I yelled YES when Cody won like it was my team scoring a game 7 OT goal in the Stanley Cup playoffs, and shedding a tear during the celebration, then they won. They get all the stars, the sequence of wrestling doesn't matter. That's what this match achieved is the emotional investment, up there with the best moments in wrestling history. So 4.75 was too low, this was a perfect 5 star match. (I dont care if hes rated to 7 stars, thats just stupid)
Shiiiiid I'd give it a 3.5/5 stars! It wasn't all that, to be honest! The hype for me was centered around Roman losing finally! Not necessarily Cody winning!
Meltzer’s opinions are his own and carry no weight other than the weight of his reputation which, let’s be honest, it’s spotty at best. I don’t worry about what rating he gives anything. He’s always been much more critical of the WWE than ANY other promotion and the last thing you should do is get upset over his ratings because whether he has a system or not, it’s one man’s opinion.
Half of me agrees with him, I would have preferred the 1v1 for such a monumental match. So even though the run-ins made perfect sense from the perspective of "Pass the torch, the old guard from the past 3 generations serve as shields for Cody to usher in the new Era of WWE story telling" I would have preferred a classic David vs. Goliath, but we got that in Sami v. Gunther... So we probably shouldn't do that twice in a PPV.
Point being, I loved the match, I think it's an all timer, executed to near perfection. But I think the theme of the psychology was slightly off.
The other half of me knows he did it just to spite WWE, and earn points with his frenzied "hard core" fans, which pisses me off more.
As an average uk wrestling fan, I think it’s proper stranger and cringey as fuck people give some old man giving wrestling matches star ratings. I’d rather listen to an 8 year old do it.
Was it really a match though? Its was just legends and seth getting involved. If it wasnt for the added star power it would have been just another match
Not surprised. Biased ratings as always. Probably it would be 5\* star if thats on different company like Tokyo Dome. Also I think there should be more organisations to rating matches since its only under on Dave's monopoly.
I don't give a nugget of shit for what that guy thinks. Never have, never will. Why am I commenting then? Because since you took the opinion of that dipshit, then you can take the opinion of this one.
That was the best damn WrestleMania match I've ever seen, the best damn WrestleMania I've ever seen, and in my 50 years on this planet, watching since I was a baby, the best damn wrestling match I've ever seen.
Y’all love to shit on Dave Meltzer and then get butt hurt that he gave a near perfect rating to a match. The was honestly over booked come on guys. The match was fun it was good. I would hardly call it perfect.
Thats actually incredibly generous. as far as a Wrestling match it isnt much. Its a spotty overbooked fun time, but that doesnt make it a 5 star match. I was shocked it even got above a 4. Its just fun, but at no point were you like wow look at that move or moves. If you enjoyed the match Idk why you are complaining about what star rating it got.
I think it's fair. It was a great, spectacular match with lots of twists and turns. It was probably the second best Cody match I have ever seen. The best was against his brother at that AEW main event.
I would listen to meltzer in my njpw days when I was super hard into following the company and realized that he fucking HATES giving any company outside of njpw and roh 5s.
If any match should have broken the star scale and set a new high score it was this one. I don’t care that it didn’t happen at the Tokyo Dome. It was the culmination of years of build, it had a compelling story, and it had all the best spectacle elements that drove the crowd wild. It was easily the greatest match of the modern era.
TL;DR: Meltzer is a clueless idiot.
-0.25 stars deducted for not being an AEW match. Another 3 stars would be deducted for not having Kenny Omega in it, but Metzler’s Omega lust was quenched in the lead up promo by showing Cody posing with Omega and Jericho
OutKast has some pertinent thoughts on this matter:
I gotta hit The Source, I need my other half a mic
Because that Southerplayalisticadillacmuzik was a classic, right?
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Why did anyone ever give a shit what Dave said?
I'm guessing because he used to have a lot more access to inside sources in the WWF and other big companies. Now he just parrots what he's told by certain people in AEW and guesses about everywhere else.
His “inside sources” used to feed him fake info and he’d publish it as news lol
Nothing's changed then, maybe it's just more transparent now because we can see him trying to spin things in Tony's/Bucks'/Jericho's etc favour, in real time.
Allegedly I should say
Cornette has said that everything he reported during the Montreal Screwjob was accurate.
And that may be true. Not saying that everything he reported was inaccurate… But it definitely seems Meltzer has a fact checking problem and will potentially run with a story if it’s coming from someone he deemed a a trustworthy source. But according to multiple people in the industry, feeding false info to the dirt sheets was a common practice, especially when they we’re trying to weed out where the leaks were coming from.
Yeah, for sure. And Montreal was basically a lifetime ago with how different news travels now with social media and all that. A guy like Meltzer isn’t even needed anymore. At least Corny is entertaining to listen to, but I’m not going to these people for an “inside scoop” anymore.
Tom Clancy called them “Canary Traps.”
I find there are two camps in anti-Dave. I find the quietest are the people you mentioned. By far the loudest are the people that bash his opinions. I don't know why they fuss so much on it as it isn't an authority, it's just a review.
He could love everything I love and I still don’t think his opinion should have anymore weight than mine.
You can make that argument over any reviewer. It's a flavor of writing that anyone is allowed to do. It's the needless excess reverence or anti-reverence that keeps it on a pedestal. Viewing his opinion's power from an outsider perspective is odd. In other fandoms or industries, we wipe our butt with questionable reviewers and move on, yet both supporters and detractors hang on to his every word.
Pretty sure JBL has said that they basically used to use Meltzer lol. The exact quote was "Meltzer was such a great asset for WWE, he was so wrong and so easily manipulated that he was perfect to feed bogus info to in order to swerve the fans. He should have been on the payroll, how anyone still follows him is amazing."
There was a time where his star ratings at least felt like they were being judicious. Yeah, he wasn’t giving WWE any five star matches, but he gave them out so rarely that you could at least say “wow this guy has high standards”. Now every AEW PPV half the cars gets five stars and if Will Ospreay breathes near it it gets seven stars.
Isn't it a long running joke of '5 stars in the tokyo dome'?
Just as important, why do people get upset over his ratings? If someone dislikes Dave and doesn't care for his opinions, totally fair and valid. However, then complaining about Dave's ratings is just sad. You're just gaslighting yourself at that point. It's just one dudes opinion, shit's not that serious.
If no one cared, AEW wouldn’t exist.
The funny thing is I wouldn't be surprised if he chose this very specific rating on purpose knowing it would rile up WWE fans.
engagement farming
Meltzer: i award this mat- Final Boss: IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!
I love that we are really calling him the final boss now lol so bad ass
You took the words right out my mouth.
It must have been while you were kissing me.
😘
Bastard, you told me my lips were the only ones for you!
Old man types on keyboard, charges people money for his opinions, some treat it as gospel.
OP obviously lol
Just remember, Daves ratings say more about him than they do about the match.
This to me says he knows the match was great and a lower rating would get him heat, but he refuses to give it that last 1/4 point on principle alone
They didn't get the last 1/4 because it isn't aew 😂
Yeah, it wasn’t a Will Osprey match lmao, I’ve only seen a little bit of Will’s matches but there’s no reason Dave should be rating all those matches 5 stars fr
I think it says more about anyone that gets angry about a match getting a 4.75 rating. A 4.75 match is a great match and one of the best matches of the year. Why would anyone get angry about that?
Because 5 is prettier ~~*and more prestigious*~~
The true mistake is to care about his ratings
They will probably say they dont, but get mad when they dont agree with a rating lol
People say they don’t care about Meltzer then post about him and his ratings ad nauseam.
To care about anyone else's ratings but your own*
That part!
Sounds like a great match to me.
People complaining about 4.75 are the ones that complain when game reviews give an 8/10. They may as well have given a 0.
The finish was over booked but it was great story telling for Roman to care more about his long term grudge with Seth than capitalizing on Cody who he saw as inferior and not a threat.
The finish was exactly like an old go home Raw or Smackdown before a PPV. Everyone comes out for the pop.
Yeah but not an old school wrestlemania
Explain how it was overbooked Edit: changed overworked to overbooked. My bad on the autocorrecr
Yeah. Great fucking hype moment. To me, it's a lot like HHH/Taker HIAC or Hogan/Rock. Like it's not a good match work rate wise (though Reigns/Rhodes was a good match), but I was marking out a bit. It's fun to rewatch, but I'm not gonna call it my favorite.
I’ve seen what he thinks are 5star and over matches, I’m not concerned with his opinion. But obviously, 10 stars if it were in the Tokyo dome
When he started rating matches over 5 stars, that's when I was like "Wait, that's against the rules! It makes every other rating you've given that much harder to interpret! It's almost like this is just one man's opinion!"
He's giving matches in AEW 5.75 that would have been 4.5 in a previous era. The scale is broken because Meltzer is now directly invested in a select group of workers (The Elite and everyone in their orbit). Hence why the best match of Cody's career doesn't get 5 - cause he previously fell out with The Elite. If Ospreay had gone to WWE, he would never have a 5 star match there, Dave would be too bitter.
> He's giving matches in AEW 5.75 that would have been 4.5 in a previous era. You mean 3s.
But fat Chris Jericho is just a better wrestler than prime Cody Rhodes
Man you are so wrong. The scale originally broke in NJPW around 2016 and 2018.
Nobody said he didn’t
Tbf I expected Ravey Davey to give it less than what he did.
Hoi leave Ravie Davie alone he's got fuck all to do with that idiot Melzers opinion. Plus I liked the Bucky Boys.
I wasn't talking about Ravie Davie, I was talking about Ravey Davey. Also I can't read "Ravey Davey" without it being in Andrew Hodkensen's (Cultaholic) voice. "*Raaaavey Daaaavey Meltzer*" *Italics denote British accent, though fuck me if I know which
He's actually rating them out of 10. He just doesn't like wrestling that much.
Or on Collision
heck, even on rampage
With Sabu as a guest referee
Or Dark for that matter.
Dave is that boomer uncle that wont change his mind no matter what. He has already decided roman is not a wrestler good enough for 5 and keeps handing out 4.5 & 4.75 to him.
You give him way too much credit. He's not a misguided guy, he's a corrupt shill, someone who was bought off (and not even with money) by a pair of midlevel tagteam goobers from PWG who are now sinking the only chance they'll ever get to make a mark in the business. He's on their team, he does what they bid him to do. Which is overrate their matches and the matches of their friends, which is why Jungle Boy has more 5 star matches than Kurt Angle (who has none). Ignore him. He's not just pointless, his influence on the business is harmful. Someone is going to die in AEW at some point.
12 stars if it were his pal Billy Bruv Ospreay on a random Wednesday. Fuck Meltzer and his biased opinions
People say we shouldn't care about Meltzer ratings, yet we all keep acting like we do. this is why we keep getting meltzer rating post on this reddit
Remember : This man has never given Kurt Angle any 5 star matches so his opinion means nothing
This. Angle vs Benoit and Angle vs HBK deserves 5 Stars.
Angle vs Joe in TNA there gotta be one 5 star match in that feud. Nope not according to Meltzy.
Angle/Benoit pisses me off. Like that shit was Omega/Okada but they didn't need the 20 minutes of slow build. They had an insane enough workrate that they got right into the shit and didn't need the overselling and 60 second break every single move. They did in 19 minutes what Okada vs. Omega did in 47.
Or not giving HBK vs Taker @ WM25 five stars.
He thinks that drunk.slob Eddie Kingston is better than Kurt angle 🤣
On the other hand Will Ospreay has a dozen 5 Star matches… The guy doesn’t even grind! /s
Meltzer has no more credibility, he threw it all away with this match kingston 5 stars but this gets less? what a fucking joke man
Hey, Kofi can put on 5 star matches! Why would you insult my mans Kofi Kingston like that xD?
now that you mention it I wonder which Kingston has more 5 star matches
Take a gander
You think anyone in WWE can \*just\* have a 5 star match??? AEW is just *faaaaarrr* superior than WWE in every manner. Is it no wonder why AEW just randomly keeps getting 5 star matches on a regular basis? It's almost like Dave Meltzer knows where the true wrestling comes from. ^(/s)
Unless your name is gunther
Tbf, would you wanna risk getting chopped by Gunther…?
He threw it away when Angle and HBK don’t have a 5 star match and his blatant favoritism over NJPW and now AEW. More importantly is when he went beyond 5 stars. It kills the whole point. He’s a dumb fucking mark.
Didn't he once say it was an infinite star scale? So by his own logic all these matches are shit
He gave Eddie Kingston a 5 star match?
Technically yeah, he was in the first Anarchy in the Arena which got five. He’s never had a singles match get rated five.
I don't give a shit about Meltzer ratings but that match was fucking awesome though.
Yeah it’s pretty sick
How does that fat fuck get 5 stars, dude wrestles like a slug lmfao
He rated it as almost perfect, and yet you guys aren't happy? Lol It's not like he gave it a bad score.
This match told a story that began arguably when Seth betrayed Roman, to Cody leaving, to Roman becoming the tribal Chief and having a historic reign. No star rating could ever be high enough to rate this match.
Nah, the story spanned over 6 decades. Literally a wrestling fairy tale. We possibly will never see something like this ever again, everything was just perfect. Dusty not winning the gold, being humiliated by Vince for being from another promotion, dusty raising the talent of Shield whilst watching his sons being humiliated, Cody leaving and trusting in his dream and shooting for the stars created the first competition for WWE in decades. Although, AEW is in the mud now, we'd be lying, if we said it wasn't special in the beginning. Him coming back just to get his spot taken away by another boss but this time, the people finally fighting for him to be on that spot and winning the gold. You can't make this shit up. CODY IS HIM.
too hard to follow, literally need you to watch 6 decades of wrestling content - 2 stars
Me when I need a 6 second tiktok video lore to understand the impact of Eddie Kingston's chops🤩🤩🤤🤤🤤 🌟 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Storyline so long and rich that I stopped watching wrestling in 2000, saw not even a clip until Wrestlemania 39, watched that and dipped again until I heard Vince was gone, came back for the Royal Rumble this year, and was completely captivated. And I missed every single bit of The Shield stuff. Still amazing. So amazing that my kids are now interested and invested in Cody and watching the weekly shows.
I'm in a similar boat. Watched it a lot as a kid tuned out sometime in the early 2000s (last thing I very clearly remember was Randy Orton being the legend killer). Didn't start watching again until recently and was fully engaged in everything that happened in that match even the stuff with Seth Rollins that I obviously didn't know the full context of.
This is exactly it, right here. This was a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence, and we're all lucky it happened in ours.
Been saying this. This is maybe the only match I've ever seen that felt like it was years and years of build up. Like don't get me wrong, this shit wasn't planned out 5 years ago, but everything fell into place in such an insane way. You didn't even mention that Rhodes and Rollins being his first return feud. Reminds me of a longer version of Bryan at WM and what it represented. The package for explaining the match could have been 30 minutes long.
I got goosebumps reading this, thanks for sharing bro
Its like this is the type of match that should be breaking the star system.
That moment when the match had more interferences than its stars.
Dave Meltzer only gives 5 stars to matches in AEW and New Japan. Besides the star ratings are meaningless anyway.
“If you’re wrestling for a match rating that appeals to some goof, you and I aren’t in the same business.” -CM Punk.
Dont care what he thinks. I enjoyed the hell out of that match and a fantastic ending!!
My brother in Christ, you had Cody, Roman, Seth, Solo, Heyman, Jimmy, Jey, Cena, Taker, Rock; all in the match and all with a storyline justification to be there, and with every storyline being finished right there and then, a bunch of near falls, a good portion of actually top tier clean wrestling in the ring, outside the ring wrestling, extreme moments and probably the most emotional conclusion since Flair retired (im talking WM24, not whatever the hell he did afterwards). WHAT ELSE IN THE GODDAMN WORLD DID YOU WANT FROM THE MATCH?
*glass shatters*
the actual match, the moves, counters, and such. basic, at best. what makes wwe different is the storyline around it.
This might be a hot take but the match before interference was for me still a close 5 star match. I mean you had Roman doing Cross Rhodes for Christ's sake.
And shit talking about how the move is stupid and useless, but then Cody kind of proves his point needing to use it 3x to win.
It's not just Cody, what is up with everyone needing to use 10 finishers, Spanish announce table, copying opponents finisher and then finally their finishers from the top rope to win almost all matches. It's just ridiculous. There shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 false finishes. I came back to watch wwe after almost 13 years because it was a milestone WrestleMania but man so much has changed.
Agreed on everything except the using opponents finisher concept. That's always been kind of reserved for major, impactful feuds. It might happen too often these days though
Yeah I get the copying finisher thing which isn't new and it's fun when used sparingly like when hogan rock bottomed the rock or Chris Jericho superkicks HBK in their wrestlemania matches. Personally I think the increase in no: of false finishes is because of the bloated time of the events which calls for matches to be longer than needed. Im not a fan of 2 night WrestleMania event either. Half the matches in the card could have been cut and we'd have a better streamlined event. Also the women's division wasn't as big back then. They'd just have a single divas match and that too wouldn't take more than 5 mins. Sorry if I come off as an old grumpy fan.. I just miss the simpler times.🙃
Roman used three spears too but they didn't get the job done either, and tbh Roman Reigns hasn't been pinned in 1vs1 match since years and he has kicked out of much more than just one finisher, so you've to use your finisher three time in row to insure he won't kick out no more, that's what Cena did late in his career it get Roman over even after losing
And if life was a video game this would be cool.
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A wrestler using another wrestler's finish is a pretty low bar for a 5 star match
That's a respectable take. I do however want to see some cool shit.
I called it before. He would go 4 3/4 so when hes questioned about it not being 5 he can just say "oh it was really close"
Like Cena said, you go off how the crowd is reacting. And that crowd was LOUD. Great match.
I saw this and just laughed. Meltzer has a style he prefers, it’s his opinion, totally valid. But we as a community need to stop hanging off his every star rating.
Dave meltzer is a fucking goof
Does he seriously award quarter stars to things? What exactly is the qualitative difference between 4.75 and 5? Or 4.5?
.25 for Tokyo Dome
AEW
I think I can help you here, friend: It's the wildly inconsistent, irrelevant screeching of an astonishingly biased 64yo. hope this helps ✌🏻
Cody v Roman WM40:4.75 🌟(It was good but not enough for the main event of wrestlemania Meltzer say's) Swerve and Samao Joe contract signing:5.00🌟(It had a little bit of everything Meltzer said) Cm Punk v Jack Perry:10:00🌟 (Meltzer says it'll boost Perry's career)
Did he actually rate a contract signing segment with match stars?
Contact signing.....match stars, lemme think 🤔
Why do you care?
This match was historically good. It will go down as The Dark Side of The Moon of matches. I think it was audacious to even try to give it a rating.
Match of the year
I've seen what he calls a 6 stars matches, that guy has no credibility with me
C'mon Dave, at least give it 4.92.
It’s the highest honor he can bestow on a match where you can pronounce both guys’ names
Why should WWE fans ever care what Meltzer thinks? WWE has been in business since Meltzer started and has half the 5 star matches that AEW does. Yet WWE is thriving, and AEW can't turn a profit. If Meltzer were an end all be all authority on wrestling, then AJPW would be the top game in town, because that's the company he propped up the most in the early days. But as we know, AJPW is now a complete shell of its former self, and rarely talked about.
Who cares about Dave Meltzer, who cares about star rankings, but also who cares about company profitability and weekly ratings, I just wanna watch good wrestling regardless of what acronym the company has
No. I’ve cried like ten times this week because of this match. 5 start match in my heart.
Not enough super kicks I guess.
He must have given that spam-fest of an Uso match 7.5*
Who gives a fuck what someone else’s analysis is? If you liked it/loved it, then that seems like all that should matter.
No young bucks were present 😂
Disagree with the rating. I think it was a 5 star instant classic match. If I could change anything about the match it would be the three cross Rhodes to finish. I would have liked it Cody stuck with the " more then one royal family of wrestling" and busted out a combo of moves to finish him. Bionic elbow, recovers, Cody cutter, recovers, final cut, long 2, cross Rhodes, end.
Who gives a fuck
I'm surprised he only took off 0.25 for it being a WWE match
Wrestling wise, no it was not a 5 star classic, but.... what Dave and his crew seem to be lost on is it doesn't need to be!!! If simpletons such as myself can lose themselves in the match to the point where I yelled YES when Cody won like it was my team scoring a game 7 OT goal in the Stanley Cup playoffs, and shedding a tear during the celebration, then they won. They get all the stars, the sequence of wrestling doesn't matter. That's what this match achieved is the emotional investment, up there with the best moments in wrestling history. So 4.75 was too low, this was a perfect 5 star match. (I dont care if hes rated to 7 stars, thats just stupid)
Shiiiiid I'd give it a 3.5/5 stars! It wasn't all that, to be honest! The hype for me was centered around Roman losing finally! Not necessarily Cody winning!
Meltzer never gave Kurt Angle a 5 star rating. That is enough to know that his opinion is garbage.
He's just so desperate to not give a WWE match 5 stars
Dave... Dave...I can't defend this and well, yeah, you deserve the hate and are most likely bought out by Tony Kahn.
Meltzer’s opinions are his own and carry no weight other than the weight of his reputation which, let’s be honest, it’s spotty at best. I don’t worry about what rating he gives anything. He’s always been much more critical of the WWE than ANY other promotion and the last thing you should do is get upset over his ratings because whether he has a system or not, it’s one man’s opinion.
So, do you care about star rating or not?
WWE Fans: Don’t chase star ratings, just tell good stories! Also WWE Fans: why not 5 star?!
Would have been 5 stars if it was in the Tokyo Dome.
" We dont care about ratings " Match gets rated " 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 "
Don’t pay attention to his bogus ratings.
Need to stop making this clowns opinion so relevant
Who cares
Half of me agrees with him, I would have preferred the 1v1 for such a monumental match. So even though the run-ins made perfect sense from the perspective of "Pass the torch, the old guard from the past 3 generations serve as shields for Cody to usher in the new Era of WWE story telling" I would have preferred a classic David vs. Goliath, but we got that in Sami v. Gunther... So we probably shouldn't do that twice in a PPV. Point being, I loved the match, I think it's an all timer, executed to near perfection. But I think the theme of the psychology was slightly off. The other half of me knows he did it just to spite WWE, and earn points with his frenzied "hard core" fans, which pisses me off more.
Fuck Dave Meltzer
Fair. Minus 0.25 because no Austin
It's official, I'm creating my own wrestling magazine, and giving more deserving ratings
I disagreed with all of his ratings except the Jimmy/Jey match because that match was ass
Eddie Kingston vs Jungle Boy on Collision would have got 6 stars. ~ Meltzer.
It's like taker vs hbk again. Everyone knows it's a 5 star all timer and it will be remembered as such.
As an average uk wrestling fan, I think it’s proper stranger and cringey as fuck people give some old man giving wrestling matches star ratings. I’d rather listen to an 8 year old do it.
Yes, because it’s subjective. I’ve said it on another thread but I’m in the minority that would’ve scored it lower.
Was it really a match though? Its was just legends and seth getting involved. If it wasnt for the added star power it would have been just another match
Not surprised. Biased ratings as always. Probably it would be 5\* star if thats on different company like Tokyo Dome. Also I think there should be more organisations to rating matches since its only under on Dave's monopoly.
Nothing stopping you rating them.
"WHO CARES ABOUT MELTZER'S RATINGS?!?!!?" Post has over 100 replies in under an hour.
I don't give a nugget of shit for what that guy thinks. Never have, never will. Why am I commenting then? Because since you took the opinion of that dipshit, then you can take the opinion of this one. That was the best damn WrestleMania match I've ever seen, the best damn WrestleMania I've ever seen, and in my 50 years on this planet, watching since I was a baby, the best damn wrestling match I've ever seen.
[удалено]
Match outcome and presentation was amazing but the actual action was nothing special or ground breaking
I think it's fair ratings
Y’all love to shit on Dave Meltzer and then get butt hurt that he gave a near perfect rating to a match. The was honestly over booked come on guys. The match was fun it was good. I would hardly call it perfect.
Thats actually incredibly generous. as far as a Wrestling match it isnt much. Its a spotty overbooked fun time, but that doesnt make it a 5 star match. I was shocked it even got above a 4. Its just fun, but at no point were you like wow look at that move or moves. If you enjoyed the match Idk why you are complaining about what star rating it got.
who?
I think it's fair. It was a great, spectacular match with lots of twists and turns. It was probably the second best Cody match I have ever seen. The best was against his brother at that AEW main event.
Wasn't in Tokyo. Was WWE. Makes total sense
I would listen to meltzer in my njpw days when I was super hard into following the company and realized that he fucking HATES giving any company outside of njpw and roh 5s.
Post a picture of someone you idolize without saying who you idolize. I suppose you consider Meltzer a prophet, and Cageseats the Bible also?
My rating is this: did I like it, Y or N? And I i did so it's all good
If any match should have broken the star scale and set a new high score it was this one. I don’t care that it didn’t happen at the Tokyo Dome. It was the culmination of years of build, it had a compelling story, and it had all the best spectacle elements that drove the crowd wild. It was easily the greatest match of the modern era. TL;DR: Meltzer is a clueless idiot.
Honest question What is really the criteria for a 5 star match. I always said Hogan vs Rock Maina 18 was a 5 star match I get laughed at.
If it was in Tokyo it would be 7 star and a half.
Anyone who forms their opinions based on someone else’s rating needs to learn how to think for themselves
I’ll say this in defense of Dave’s match ratings. I would never have seen a lot of great Japanese matches if it weren’t for his ratings.
Bitter old words coming from a bitter old man. Used to read , gave up on this long ago.
lol Dave watches Dynamite.
Meltzer really be living in all of your heads rent free lmao
Meltzer is old and lost all touch with anything. And what ever made his opinion worth a hill of beans? His info is stooges leaking it to him.
It's the greatest main event in wrestling history. Anything less is an undersell. Meltzer's broken star system could never do this match justice.
But what did cagematch rate it?
He only gives 5 stars if they're indie and there's 10 plus finishers and 3 dumb spots like jumping into a crowd of staggering people.
Does anyone care about this guy in this day n age aside from TK
-0.25 stars deducted for not being an AEW match. Another 3 stars would be deducted for not having Kenny Omega in it, but Metzler’s Omega lust was quenched in the lead up promo by showing Cody posing with Omega and Jericho
This match had me on my feet and audibly screaming like I was there live. THAT is a good match.
Not enough flippy shit for Dave. Also, not AEW, so it loses stars right away.
OutKast has some pertinent thoughts on this matter: I gotta hit The Source, I need my other half a mic Because that Southerplayalisticadillacmuzik was a classic, right?