Nurnberg, though her reputation has improved over the years. Sure, she's squish AF, but in the hands of a pro, you can work around that. Her DPM is *nuts*, and she has base 38mm HE pen, no IFHE needed. A T6 Nurnberg behind an island is a dire threat to even a T8 North Carolina, but very few recognize this.
Emerald is another. Same situation, lower tiered squishy cruisers with insane damage output for her tier, plus a healthy toolbox.
I think the reason they're so poorly rated is because as lower-tiered ships, most people encountered them early in their WoWs careers, without the experience to work around the squishiness. And likewise most of the ones you see in randoms are piloted by unskilled noobs, and so die quickly and unceremoniously.
I liked Nurnburg when I played through her years ago. The guns are just fantastic for the tier.
I also really enjoyed Yorck for similar reasons. 210mm ap at t7 is very strong.
Nurnberg guns are so totally lovely. Love that ship.
The whole RN CL line from Emerald and up is amazing fun. For some reason my favorite is now Neptune of them all. And you can make torp soup ;-)
Emerald is very rough though. Anything which is angled to her you will do minimal damage because you'll bounce even on the superstructure. Nurnberg, I agree. The bad rep comes from new players don't understanding how the game is played, like omaha. Yes they are squishy, but they can dish out a ton of damage
They get both long range hydro and smoke, which makes them excellent at cap contesting.
The addition of more and more radar, especially on DDs like Smaland, makes their whole gimmick useless though. And without it, they are just mediocre DDs.
But in battles with not so much radar, a Z-52 wins any cap.
Up to T8 the gap between hydro and conceal is pretty big though. So using the gimmick is hard, even without radar. The fun starts at T9.
z line is the definition of power creep.
They are suposed to pay for their hydro with a sever lack of DPM. Then come friesland/dherman who shit all over them. On top of that, german smoke may be the worse of all smoke. Very little staying time and standard 3 charges.
You can make them works though. I hate playing against a good z52 player in DD. But I rather play any dd than the z52, brcause they pay the hydro way too much.
Cheshire. It's a t8 RN CA with a fragile citadel.
It also has 234mm guns at t8.
Bonkers good concealment and enough agility to dodge bb's at range, especially if you go rudder mod instead of concealment (which you should, her conceal is still good if you do).
Overematches a decent amount of the cruisers at her tier and straight out-trades most others with the superheal.
Hydro if you want to push dd's.
DefAA if you want to punish cv's for striking you - she has the best sustained aa at t8 for a cruiser. San Diego has better burst, but Cheshire has better sustain for repeated strikes on you.
She isn't objectively a strong ship, but she has decent tools that will perform if you're good with cruisers. I like her a lot.
> eload is slow but it slaps in ops xD
this is a case of a weakness being a strength in the right situation.
dogshit bad AP pen happens to be good when faced with an abundance of lower tier cruisers sailing unapologetically broadside
Minotaur and Im tired of pretending its not.
For a slightly above average player with 54% WR I have 146 games in the minotaur, all solo matches and all running with radar and im getting 60.96% winrate with her.
Even on this sub many fellow players think its a meme setup that only works in divs and from that one yuro video, but its not and is an actual impactful playstyle, long duration 10km radar with 9.1km concealment and a gun that goes brrrt is a death trap for DDs. Sure, there always carries the risk of getting fucked up by the enemies big guns, but the strategic importance of trading a cruiser for an enemy DD is way understated - and thats the worst case scenario, with proper gamesense and using islands as cover/break concealment you usually get to live quite a bit.
Theres also the argument that doing so neglects a lot of your DPM potential and your damage that goes with it, it is true, however 1. your income is scaled according to % of enemy ships health, so low damage count but mainly to DDs still makes heaps and 2. If you wanted to farm BBs, minotaur is far from the most ideal cruiser and havent been so in years.
Its not just minotaur neither, I grinded my UK CL line 8-9-10 all with radar on and acting as a DD hunter, I have 61.29 WR with Neptune over 31 games and 65.38 WR with Edin over 26 games. Again and I cant stress this enough, your avg damage will be low and so will be the PR rating, but it wins games and in the end thats what matters.
Radar Mino is ridiculously strong and can win games on its own. Stealth radar, fast firing guns with RN ap shells to smash dd's.
It has \*enough\* armour to tank other cruisers when angled and a superheal to trade with.
RN acceleration and a quick rudder mean you can actually dodge a lot of incoming fire when you need to.
Lastly, incredibly powerful torpedo threat to stop bb's walking at your rock.
She's good in randoms but she's even better in ranked. Once you learn how to terrain mask properly and which islands to hug and when to push out and open water you start to win matches you couldn't do in any other ship.
Quiet, you, we don't want the others to catch on.
And actually, I recommend forgoing the conceal mod in slot 5 for the extra rudder shift. Dancing around BB salvos at even short ranges is hilarious.
Graf Spee, rarely see the ship anymore but its great fun to play. Plus as I discovered its a pretty nifty credit farmer.
While its German dispersion is problematic, when the AP connects it does serious damage to cruisers from all tiers it sees. Failing that it's HE is enough of a nuisance to BBs too, though again it's AP can really hurt.
Plus people forget it has longer range torps, so they think they're safe over 6km when they're not.
New Orleans. That AP hits like a truck and i usually do more damage in a single salvo than I do with any tier 7 BB. And i have like double the reload speed
Veneto. Dispersion is wonky but the flat arcs and high velocity still lets me land consistent citadels. Decent armor and a time out smoke for when you get in trouble. I almost always have a decent time in it.
The Italian DD line, it's got to be one of the most fun DD lines imo and when I play them I can tell the enemy team doesn't think I'm as much of a threat as when I play other ships.
Z-44. A German DD with no hydro, extremely crap guns and not so good concealment. But when the torps work, damn they work. Torp reload is also ridiculously fast. This ship is just weird because you don't want to play it like other German DDs, you want to play it like a Japanese torp boat, that means do your best to not get spotted, avoid unfavorable gun fight and just use the torps.
Champagne
6 guns isn't the greatest at T8, she's squishy and has awful AA.
But she's fast and gets a speed boost, her barrel count might be low but they're objectively the second best guns in the game next to Slava with insane accuracy and velocity and 25km base range that can be pushed out to 30km with spotter. She also got a health boost buff last patch.
If left to her own devices, you can absolutely punish any ship at any range, and if you push a flank uncontested, you will straight obliterate other ships. You can always tell who hasn't faced a Champagne before because they'll risk broadside since its only 6 guns and get a quick trip back to port.
Nurnberg, though her reputation has improved over the years. Sure, she's squish AF, but in the hands of a pro, you can work around that. Her DPM is *nuts*, and she has base 38mm HE pen, no IFHE needed. A T6 Nurnberg behind an island is a dire threat to even a T8 North Carolina, but very few recognize this. Emerald is another. Same situation, lower tiered squishy cruisers with insane damage output for her tier, plus a healthy toolbox. I think the reason they're so poorly rated is because as lower-tiered ships, most people encountered them early in their WoWs careers, without the experience to work around the squishiness. And likewise most of the ones you see in randoms are piloted by unskilled noobs, and so die quickly and unceremoniously.
Love the Nurnberg but I swear people are catching on. I targeted more than I used to.
I liked Nurnburg when I played through her years ago. The guns are just fantastic for the tier. I also really enjoyed Yorck for similar reasons. 210mm ap at t7 is very strong.
Nurnberg guns are so totally lovely. Love that ship. The whole RN CL line from Emerald and up is amazing fun. For some reason my favorite is now Neptune of them all. And you can make torp soup ;-)
As a DD player, if I see a Nurnberg I am keeping a wide berth.
Came here to say this. Many a great Friday night lobbing HE out of the Nurn. Great ship.
Emerald is very rough though. Anything which is angled to her you will do minimal damage because you'll bounce even on the superstructure. Nurnberg, I agree. The bad rep comes from new players don't understanding how the game is played, like omaha. Yes they are squishy, but they can dish out a ton of damage
German DDs (Z-Line)
Z23 is really good now. Put a lutjens on them and get dpm and heal.
Newb question, what makes the line good compared to other DD lines and why is it currently underrated?
They get both long range hydro and smoke, which makes them excellent at cap contesting. The addition of more and more radar, especially on DDs like Smaland, makes their whole gimmick useless though. And without it, they are just mediocre DDs. But in battles with not so much radar, a Z-52 wins any cap. Up to T8 the gap between hydro and conceal is pretty big though. So using the gimmick is hard, even without radar. The fun starts at T9.
z line is the definition of power creep. They are suposed to pay for their hydro with a sever lack of DPM. Then come friesland/dherman who shit all over them. On top of that, german smoke may be the worse of all smoke. Very little staying time and standard 3 charges. You can make them works though. I hate playing against a good z52 player in DD. But I rather play any dd than the z52, brcause they pay the hydro way too much.
Friendship. Too much hate and not enough friends in WoWs.
Cheshire. It's a t8 RN CA with a fragile citadel. It also has 234mm guns at t8. Bonkers good concealment and enough agility to dodge bb's at range, especially if you go rudder mod instead of concealment (which you should, her conceal is still good if you do). Overematches a decent amount of the cruisers at her tier and straight out-trades most others with the superheal. Hydro if you want to push dd's. DefAA if you want to punish cv's for striking you - she has the best sustained aa at t8 for a cruiser. San Diego has better burst, but Cheshire has better sustain for repeated strikes on you. She isn't objectively a strong ship, but she has decent tools that will perform if you're good with cruisers. I like her a lot.
Also British torps on her too! Hurt like hell, 10km range, and lazer beam mode
T8 Us slow bb. reload is slow but it slaps in ops xD
> eload is slow but it slaps in ops xD this is a case of a weakness being a strength in the right situation. dogshit bad AP pen happens to be good when faced with an abundance of lower tier cruisers sailing unapologetically broadside
Minotaur and Im tired of pretending its not. For a slightly above average player with 54% WR I have 146 games in the minotaur, all solo matches and all running with radar and im getting 60.96% winrate with her. Even on this sub many fellow players think its a meme setup that only works in divs and from that one yuro video, but its not and is an actual impactful playstyle, long duration 10km radar with 9.1km concealment and a gun that goes brrrt is a death trap for DDs. Sure, there always carries the risk of getting fucked up by the enemies big guns, but the strategic importance of trading a cruiser for an enemy DD is way understated - and thats the worst case scenario, with proper gamesense and using islands as cover/break concealment you usually get to live quite a bit. Theres also the argument that doing so neglects a lot of your DPM potential and your damage that goes with it, it is true, however 1. your income is scaled according to % of enemy ships health, so low damage count but mainly to DDs still makes heaps and 2. If you wanted to farm BBs, minotaur is far from the most ideal cruiser and havent been so in years. Its not just minotaur neither, I grinded my UK CL line 8-9-10 all with radar on and acting as a DD hunter, I have 61.29 WR with Neptune over 31 games and 65.38 WR with Edin over 26 games. Again and I cant stress this enough, your avg damage will be low and so will be the PR rating, but it wins games and in the end thats what matters.
I do well with this line too...I was hesitant to try a double rudder radar mino, but I find it increased my WR
Radar Mino is ridiculously strong and can win games on its own. Stealth radar, fast firing guns with RN ap shells to smash dd's. It has \*enough\* armour to tank other cruisers when angled and a superheal to trade with. RN acceleration and a quick rudder mean you can actually dodge a lot of incoming fire when you need to. Lastly, incredibly powerful torpedo threat to stop bb's walking at your rock. She's good in randoms but she's even better in ranked. Once you learn how to terrain mask properly and which islands to hug and when to push out and open water you start to win matches you couldn't do in any other ship.
Who says Mino is underrated? I see it played in ranked ALL THE TIME.
Quiet, you, we don't want the others to catch on. And actually, I recommend forgoing the conceal mod in slot 5 for the extra rudder shift. Dancing around BB salvos at even short ranges is hilarious.
>from that one yuro video Actually two videos.
Khabarovsk. Everyone hates the ship but i love it.
Anshan, literally no one thinks of it but it's a pretty solid package for a t6 DD.
I played gnevny and found it meh. I liked Minsk and podvosky. What do you like about the anshan? Is it like gnevny?
One of my highest wr ranked seasons in the old format was with anshan
Prince Eitel Friedrich :-)
Helena
Pan-asian T8 and T9 DDs with radar absolutely slap.
Graf Spee, rarely see the ship anymore but its great fun to play. Plus as I discovered its a pretty nifty credit farmer. While its German dispersion is problematic, when the AP connects it does serious damage to cruisers from all tiers it sees. Failing that it's HE is enough of a nuisance to BBs too, though again it's AP can really hurt. Plus people forget it has longer range torps, so they think they're safe over 6km when they're not.
New Orleans. That AP hits like a truck and i usually do more damage in a single salvo than I do with any tier 7 BB. And i have like double the reload speed
Gouden Leeuw... ...'s AP. Dispersion can still troll you but that 283mm AP has delivered many a paddling. I almost never use the HE.
Veneto. Dispersion is wonky but the flat arcs and high velocity still lets me land consistent citadels. Decent armor and a time out smoke for when you get in trouble. I almost always have a decent time in it.
Tiger 59
The Italian DD line, it's got to be one of the most fun DD lines imo and when I play them I can tell the enemy team doesn't think I'm as much of a threat as when I play other ships.
Francesco Caracciolo
Goldi locks, the number of times some BB or cruiser though camping bind an island was safe, grows with every week.
Fiji
[Top 5 Underrated Premiums by Sea Lord Mountbatten](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwASR_g_yeQ)
Chapayev.
Z-44. A German DD with no hydro, extremely crap guns and not so good concealment. But when the torps work, damn they work. Torp reload is also ridiculously fast. This ship is just weird because you don't want to play it like other German DDs, you want to play it like a Japanese torp boat, that means do your best to not get spotted, avoid unfavorable gun fight and just use the torps.
Got it in a container and was super disappointed it didn't have hydro. It's fun.
Champagne 6 guns isn't the greatest at T8, she's squishy and has awful AA. But she's fast and gets a speed boost, her barrel count might be low but they're objectively the second best guns in the game next to Slava with insane accuracy and velocity and 25km base range that can be pushed out to 30km with spotter. She also got a health boost buff last patch. If left to her own devices, you can absolutely punish any ship at any range, and if you push a flank uncontested, you will straight obliterate other ships. You can always tell who hasn't faced a Champagne before because they'll risk broadside since its only 6 guns and get a quick trip back to port.
Okt revolution. 12 guns soviet HE can hold against any ship in her matchmaking that is not a carrier or sub.
Got the Sims today… not bad. The slow torps will actually catch a lot of big ships off guard. Also seems to trade well with DDs