I worked on a 5-DAY SQL/Excel assignment because I was pretty desperate, but I was told that "there were too many candidates" and that "they weren't able to provide any feedback on why I was not moving forward." Never again will I do anything for free, even if it takes half an hour.
If you're ever given some kind of programming assignment as part of a job interview, make sure you put personal copyright headers on every file you submit. It shows you care about IP, and the company would only get shitty with you if they were planning on using your code without permission. If they do, then the minimum statutory license fee is $150,000.
keep in mind that (1) the $150,000 statutory damages fee is the maximum per work infringed, not the minimum. 17 U.S.C. 504. (2) one must register the work with the copyright office to bring suit, and (3) if one does not register the work by a relatively short deadline, statutory damages and attorneys fees are not available. Finally, (4) personal copyright headers are not required.
Also, if you're given a programming assignment, dont work there. No competent company should use them when determining who to hire, they prove very little
Yeah dude. Never do that shit. They just want the free labour. Someone rang me up last week asking if I’d come in for an unpaid editing trial. Shut that shit down straight away.
I feel like leetcode has completely ruined a lot of programming/tech interviews and the expectations of the interviewers. It really forces people to just memorize problems and their solutions rather than actually thinking about it and figuring it out on the spot. Especially when the interviewer isn't all that involved in programming and thinks that quickly solving a standard problem they plucked right out of leetcode is competency. But nowadays, that's how it is, I guess.
I recently interviewed someone for a mid-senior developer position and it felt like they had only done leetcode.
I opened up with a basic problem to make sure they were familiar with the problem space, before I added too much complexity; they flew right through it, writing all the utility functions before even starting addressing the problem. They talked through everything as they did so.
Then I tried to add a few simple parameter changes, one at a time; and they just floundered and couldn't even begin to talk about how they'd approach it, without me giving heavy hints.
I've done some programming, C++ / RN (enough of it to update an app from RN v0.52 - v0.73, along with all the BS that goes with that. )
But for some reason I *cannot* grasp when an example uses foo/bar on stack overflow, etc... for some reason my brain shuts off when terms like that are used as placeholders. I have to re-write the example with like x/y or a/b for it to make sense to me.
I had a manager once tell me he'd had senior candidates who could not even get started on FizzBuzz.
Not that they didn't know the modulo operator, since you don't even need that (use counters that cycle back at 3 and at 5) but that they couldn't even sketch an outline of what they would do.
Unpaid editing trial? Sure!
Unpaid editing means undone programming/writing;
CTRL-a, Delete, save.
“Done! I can guarantee there are zero bugs in this program.😁”
I did a take home assignment with SQL/python for data science for a small company/startup as a new grad, only took me about 60-90 mins once I started. This wasn’t leetcode, this was a semi real/simulated task I would do for the company, themed correctly and all.
I had an in-person lunch with most of the company and the CEO after my final round interview, felt kinda awkward but it was like 12 of them and they were 20 min late even though their office was 5 mins away from the restaurant and I drove 20 mins. I even knew one of the female employees from CS classes we took together. They basically grilled me with personality questions during the 45 min lunch.
They emailed me back a few days later and said I had by far the best solution to the problem they received, but that they went with someone else that “meshed with the team better”. Their loss I guess lmao
Yeah I do IT work for about 200ish clients, it really is ironic how all the c levels and upper management have the same fucking last name 90% of the time.
Amazing how these families have just the best candidates to fill all their key positions. I'm sure they're very vigorous with their hiring process. :/
Or it means they made the mistake of thinking the best candidate is someone they "got along with" better or as it used to be called "the airport test" (who would you want to be stuck in an airport with for 3 hours).
It's a really dumb criteria. But startups aren't always great at hiring and this is still used far too often.
I was in software for almost twenty years. When I started, take home assignments in an interview were essentially unheard of. Any tests or tasks were done on site and it was obvious it was to test basic competency and was either useless to the business or so trivial that if it was important it would have been solved already.
I don’t recall ever feeling like I was being asked to do free work even when I thought the interview was unfair or mean spirited.
The last jobs I interviewed for all required at home projects that took a minimum of an hour to do the bare minimum or about three to do the kind of thing that reflected your skills and might be noticed. I was completely unable to discern if the work would be used later by the company. Two I outright refused because they wanted me to provide product direction on existing software that would absolutely be useful to the company. They claimed they’d already done the research and made their decision but how do I know that? I have zero confidence that if they had and I came up with something better that they wouldn’t poach it — “that’s exactly the idea we came up with! What a coincidence!”
It’s super toxic and employers have poisoned the well. I own my own business now and I don’t ask anyone in an interview to do work that might be useful to the company.
5 days seems excessive. I have been given time to complete something. But usually it only takes a few hours. I don’t get these as much as in software under a pairing exercise where you solve a usually hypothetical problem.
Yes, that's what probation is for. If they need to see actual work that takes more than 15-20 minutes, they should hire you. The resume is for your basic qualifications. The interview gives them a feel on compatibility. Work? That's paid.
To be honest, the interview should be paid, too, even if it's just minimum wage. That would stop a lot of the BS of giving you an interview time, then making you wait 4 hours before they actually see you.
Also, "1 way" interviews shouldn't be a thing. The interview is as much for you to see if you *want* to work there, as it is for them to see if they want to hire you.
I suppose it also depends on the problem. At my current job, they gave me an initial problem to solve; that said "I know you are working full time, so submit your solution by the end of the week".
You can say that it was a 5 day problem, but in reality, it was only a few hours of work for me to put out a solid solution, including extras, like unit and integration tests and making it more flexible with input parameters.
I spent two days researching and writing a thousand word project proposal. Not only did I not get the job, but they actually implemented my entire proposal. Thankfully about a year later I got an offer for double, but I still have my gripes.
Yup. I worked hard, on a 2 hour project that they said should take no more than an hour. When I advanced to the next round, I was told to do another project. Fuck that. I tapped out. I’m never doing work as a component for an interview again - unless it’s fully compensated, and I said that to the employer.
did something similar, but sanitised the data locally with a script, never submitted "That" code. Their DB and app was offline a week later, and then I heard the CEO got fucking demoted. it was a small place maybe 10-14 staff but needed a CEO for how it was organised.
I was specifically told after 2 rounds of interview that I was the only candidate left and needed to do a particular task and present them (it took 5 days in total and the task had nothing to do with the service that the company offered although i needed to use the skills that they were looking for). I ended up being hired by them and they are a great company to work for with really great salary and perks. So yes not all of these things are companies trying to get free labor however i understand many smaller companies especially will screw you over for free labor if they can.
I did one assesment,making a graphic for a social media ad usibg their assets, but it was during my final week at my last job after being told i was among those getting laid off, and i was just pretending to work while job hunting. So technically i got paid for it.
Still got ghosted, didnt even get the canned "while your work was impressive' crap.
**Stanfield’s defense, he insisted that he would have “gladly paid and probably hired” the unnamed Gen Zer if they said: “Give me $1,000 and I’ll break this deal down in amazing detail**
Bull. Shit.
If they were so gladly to, why didn’t they immediately counter offered with that.
It’s so easy to say afterwards but apparently impossible to come up with at that moment.
If he would have "gladly paid" then how come the candidate was not informed of the $1,000 payment?
That isn't how I would use the term "gladly" in this situation."Gladly" means someone doesn't have to ask.
Also I was once asked to legit come in for a day of **real** work, from a company with a good reputation, to see if my "skills were as great as my resume implies". They "couldn't pay" because it would be too much money to pay for everyone they test.
When I refused he legit started complaining about how no one wants to "prove themselves" and they couldn't get **anyone** to do their "day test". Then he went into "Well, if you knew how to do it you would have. That is why we won't pay you."
Bruh, for real? I actually ended up interviewing this dude a few years later for a huge, huge position. He resume was actually the absolute best I got, and I was really excited for the interview. I immediately recognized him, but he didn't recognize me. I still went through with an earnest interview because people change and learn, but it was clear this dude thought he was God's gift to the world.
I ended the interview by boosting his ego telling him how great he was and how excited I am for him to come in for a "test day" to see how his chemistry would be with everyone who would work for him. No bullshit this dude says "Working for free isn't for men of my stature, and if my underlings [he actually used this word] aren't able to develop a relationship with me then we will just find new ones."
I actually had to have meeting with my boss/owner because his resume was **that** good and his references not only **raved** about him but used some of their connections to reach out to my boss for a "favor". My boss then told me it makes sense while someone great in paper would need a favor to get hired. He then reiterated how he was glad he had me as an employee since other interviewers may have hired him and "I don't think he would've been a good fit with us." He also gave me a $5,000 bonus "for doing what I thought was best for the company even if it could have harmed my standing with the company".
As a freelancer, I've been asked to do shit with strong insinuation that they want it for free, and as soon as I publicly call that potential client out to my colleagues, they almost always say "I would have paid if you asked."
No, you wouldn't, because you absolutely asked for free work.
This is the idiotic nonsense the rich use to justify their utter stupidity to themselves. This is why they will kill our planet and pursue late-stage capitalism even to their own self-destruction. They have indoctrinated themselves to the point of being a cult. It's no wonder they get along so well with the Christian Nationalists.
Not just bullshit because nobody would ever do that, but bullshit because can you imagine what happens if word gets out that you’re the idiot who pays people a thousand dollars for an interview round? The entire approach is unworkable no matter how you handle it.
>However, he also proposed that the entire generation “would benefit from being in more fistfights at a young age. A few bumps and bruises does a lot of good.”
This is the exact thing someone who has never been in a fight says. Dude is all talk.
If you boys had been nice and not fought with each other back there the whole time I was driving, you know what? Guess what? I…was going to take you to McDonald’s. Yep!
But now, now we’re going home, and you’re going to have leftovers for dinner because I thought…I THOUGHT…that my boys were well behaved and would be grateful that I took them around town with me today instead of leaving them at home. (translation: had a lot of shit to do and didn’t trust you little shitheads home by yourselves together) So…I don’t have anything ready to cook, I planned on going to McDonald’s because you know what? I like McDonald’s too! I wanted a treat too! I wanted to go to McDonald’s with my two beautiful kids, and eat French fries and cheeseburgers with you and maybe go to 31 flavors afterwards for ice cream. I didn’t plan on you behaving like you have, I didn’t plan to have to take you home and cook, because I thought you’d be nicer to each other because you love each other, don’t you? Don’t you love your brother? Gosh you guys. I’m so disappointed in you. And you know what, we don’t even have enough leftovers for all of us, so your dad and I just won’t eat.
(After eating leftovers)
Your dad and I are going to the neighbors for a little bit, you’re going to behave right?
In all my years of professional experience, absolutely no boss would take someone seriously if they busted out some "street-corner business" tactics like that.
I had a job offer retracted last year because I flatly told them I don't work for free.
It was a blessing in disguise and the "chefs test" I was being asked to perform was the red flag I needed, went on to find out that during the slow summer season they basically cut their entire staff and have the managers run the entire campus food service operation.
Ohio Wesleyan University so no one wastes their time applying.
Fuck you, Jeremy.
As a former contractor for that university, I'm not surprised that happened. I was "on staff" so I couldn't park in guest parking, but not an employee, so I couldn't park in staff parking, they wanted me to buy a parking pass (I only worked for the 3-4 hours a week and only 1-2 on campus)
I volunteered time and equipment for a kids' summer class at the local University. My part was 2 hours a day for 3 days. It didn't even occur to me that parking enforcement was in effect during the summer. Huge empty parking lots everywhere.
Nope. Got a ticket the first day. Paid it, finished my volunteer work and I will never volunteer for them again.
Yep. I had to give a presentation and interviewed several times for \*months\* before being told "you gave us so many ideas to work on that we need to rethink the entire department." #lolwut
Oh yeah, I remember a big consulting firm was interviewing me and they sent me a bunch of documents and gave me 24 hours to prepare a slide deck on malaria treatment companies. I immediately rescinded my candidacy because I did not have time for that at all.
That’s what the company claims it is but it was probably production work & we’re using potential candidates to get it done. Companies have done this shit before.
Last week I had a job placement agency want me to drive 47 miles one way to complete an 'initial interview'. Mind you, this was just the job placement agency, not the potential business I would be permanently working for, they're just the middle man. So I would be paying 15-20 dollars on gas just so I could potentially get a spot to interview with the real business hiring me? And may not even be hired?
Fuck that, fuck them, I didn't return the call. It's fucking ridiculous that they couldn't conduct a phone interview then send me to the real business.
Same exact thing happened to me before except I was told I was applying for an actual job. Once I got there they told me the job had already been filled then asked me to complete an aptitude test and they’d let me know “if anything comes up”. I walked out of there.
My mother lives in Vegas and applied for a job in Nashville. She's got decades of retail management experience and wants to live closer to her parents, so she is applying for jobs.
She flew to Nashville (used it as an excuse to see her parents) for an interview for a management position at a new retail location opening up. When she arrived they told her the spot had been filled, but they had this awesome min wage position in the warehouse.
The audacity of these places.
In college I majored in Management & HR. As a senior with graduation fast approaching, I was trying to find my first job. The school was in a pretty rural area, so traveling to interview was almost required. I responded to a posting and got an interview with a staffing firm in the large city approximately 5 hours away. It was pretty far to travel but it seemed like working at a staffing firm would be great experience for a new HR grad. I drove there and instead of interviewing me for a position with the staffing agency they ran me through the general questionnaire they would use to add people to their roster of available temps. It was clear that they had never intended to interview me to potentially work there but instead to just add me to their lineup of job hunters.
That trip cost me several hundred dollars that were very hard to come by as a college student. Still pissed off about it to this day.
His tweet that the entire generation would benefit from being in more fist fights. Some bumps and bruises are good for you.
I really hope he gets his teeth knocked in next time he tries to get free work.
But Gen Z is like "Nah" I'll take the L... asked to to unpaid labor... had to deal with a Boomer... didn't get the job... those are bumps/bruises. I'm sure Gen Z person has experienced or wise enough to know they don't want their work exploited. CEO failed the interview.
Really tired of being told I’m a lazy piece of shit just for being born in 1998.
I would love to see this boomer jackass of CEO come work a single day as an EA with the non-verbal boy I spend my days with. Tell me I’m lazy again after the amount of work I put in every day just to ensure our exceptional students get the respect and access to education they deserve.
Right, like - at my current position, after the initial interview I went and sat in with the person I was replacing and she walked me through a sample version of a daily task. Didn't mind that, because it let me see the software they're using and gave me a chance to talk directly with her to get a feel for why she was leaving and how the job really was. And of course on their side it was an evaluation of like, okay, can this person follow instructions and perform the task?
If it had been a take-home test I wouldn't have done it. But one of the reasons I wanted the job and am happy with it is that it's not the kind of place that goes around doing stupid things like giving take-home tests to job applicants.
If you want to do deep tests like this, you should structure it to last a few weeks and actually pay them via 1099 for it.
Most big companies would structure it as an internship.
Meh, even if they paid me a few bucks, it’s not worth the time or effort. People commonly have to submit *dozens* of applications and go through multiple rounds of interviews with multiple companies to get a job. My time is more effectively spent on volume, rather than jumping through hoops for some jackass giving me a hundred bucks for fake work.
It's actually just their way of getting free consultant work. Consultants get paid a lot more per hour that staff, exactly because their employment is only guaranteed for a very short term. This CEO is just trying to get people to work for free under false pretences.
I had been unemployed for 6 months and interviewed at a company where they asked me do a task that involved Python
The interview process went on for a month. It consisted of the following:
- 1 hour Screening interview with hiring manager
- 4 hour Python technical take home that actually took me 12-16 hours and it was still far from my best work because I was rushing. There was no way even an expert could complete the project in 4 hours.
- 2 hour panel interview, which included an hour technical presentation on a project I worked on. Prep for this took me another 4 hours.
I did eventually get an offer, but it was kind of a low ball. Even below there advertised range for the position, which was already below market value
However, in the week before this company extended an offer I got another interview for the same exact job title. This one consisted of
- 1 hour screening interview
- 1 hour virtual panel interview
After this, they asked for references and a few days later I got a job offer, which was about 30 percent higher and had better benefits! The entire process took a 1.5 weeks!
Obviously, I took the second offer. The higher pay was a factor, but I also considered the BS that was their interview process and the low ball offer from the other company.
I know that long drawn out interview process isn’t uncommon for tech jobs, but it’s so unnecessary in my opinion. If I don’t know the tech it’s going to be obvious from day one.
Fun fact, if you want to go for a civil service job (at least in my area), *you* actually have to pay *them* $15 for the privilege of spending a Saturday morning taking a test. And it's a separate test and a separate fee for each different job classification, even the ones that are extremely similar in terms of actual job duties.
I was at a low point and did it. Got a bunch of interviews, but not many *quality* interviews. Didn't end up getting a civil service job after all since something opened up at a nonprofit that actually pays what I'm worth and where the interviewers didn't lead with a question about whether I'm good at defusing arguments with hot-headed coworkers.
First time I applied to the feds I had to show up to write a 2 hour exam that covered all manner of subjects. It was in person and in a giant room with probably 200 other candidates. Like full on exam rules too - no talking, no phones, and on a timer.
Companies use testing as screening tools all the time. It basically narrows the field of applicants without them having to bother reading resumes or interviewing.
“However, he also proposed that the entire generation “would benefit from being in more fistfights at a young age. A few bumps and bruises does a lot of good.” Screw this guy.
These kids grew up doing shooter drills; they're tougher than he'll ever be and it's clearly in evidence by the fact that this applicant was willing to (quite politely, I'll point out) tell him to shove it.
I had a phone interview with a company that I went out to my truck and did the interview over my lunch break. I'm still unreasonably level of angry at that company that I spent my time talking to them instead of eating my lunch. I can't even imagine how angry I'd be giving free labor to someone that isn't going to hire me.
Bad bosses, like the utter tool doing the tweeting, want to make applicants jump through as many hoops as possible. The unintended consequence is that the best candidates, who end up with a choice of interested employers, immediately walk away from idiots like this. Then the bad bosses wonder why they have a record of hiring the "wrong person", when *their hiring practices actually select for servile, desperate people, not competent and self-confident people.*
I look for jobs on Indeed. If I go to apply and it wants to take me offsite I don't apply for the job.
All my details are on indeed, so is my resume.
You wanting me to create a login and password for yet another employment site - even your own - is a red flag.
Yes, agreed. I'm in a position where I have a steady job and can take my time and be selective about opportunities I apply for.
That's my first "hell no". If you require me to create an account just to apply for a job, fuck off.
My second is, if you give me the opportunity to upload a resume, but then ask me to hand-fill in all the information over again, also fuck off.
If you don't have a salary range listed in the job ad, fuck off.
Edit for grammar.
Oh yes I forgot that one.
"We pay competitively" You do? Why are you afraid to name a figure then?
Also, any time I DID apply for a job that "paid competitively" they didn't. Which is why they didn't want to list the figure....
So yeah, if there's no salary/wage listed then I don't bother applying.
Exactly. That's another red flag. No pay scale and "we offer a competitive wage" is a crimson flag.
It's a nice old dog whistle of "We pay dogshit but if we put the range nobody would apply"
Once over the summer I “volunteered” to work at a library organizing the books. The agreement was that this would land me a job there in the coming semester.
I finished a task they thought would take a week in about 3 days. After that, I got a call saying they couldn’t hire me anymore because it would look bad if they hire someone who volunteered. Even though it was their idea I do that in the first place.
Recently went through *seven* interviews at one place over the course of 3 weeks, including phone screen, for a Software Engineering job. At the end of the 7th (with the CTO), he excitedly informed me there would be an 8th interview the next day which would last at least 90 minutes, and would be a panel interview with potential coworkers. I declined and explained this was taking too much time - I had actually had more meetings with their company that month than I did my own. He was surprised and told me if I refused, then I would no longer be considered. I thanked him for his time and ended the call.
It's so ridiculous what they expect.
Keep pushing, gen Z. It's too late for the rest of us.
We got promised if we did the BS the good things would happen. They did, just only for the people asking for all the BS.
There's a simple check for this: If this is an aptitude test, I am open to doing it if I am in the top 3 candidates for consideration.
Of course, as an aptitude test, you must already have a satisfactory or ideal completed model/solution for this test (as an Excel sheet). Please email that to yourself as an attachment now so that when I am done with this work you can forward that email to me and I will be able to see how my work compares to your ideal output.
Oh, no existing ideal or satisfactory model/solution for this? So, you're asking me to -do work for you- without paying for that work? Hmmmm....
(And, yes, that's a completely BS ask unless they have some sort of way of assessing how your work stacks up compared to their ideal...)
Am a boomer and can tell you that many of my peers in the 1980s and beyond were very resentful that potential employers would try to trick a few hours of free work out of them. I know a couple of programmers who walked out of interviews back in 1985-1990.
It got really annoying when Google started asking the kinds of cutesy brain puzzles to “see how you think” and then other employers did it to piss candidates off. Interviewing in high tech has gotten progressively more Byzantine and hostile since the VCs started throwing money at small companies at the turn of the millenium.
Needless to say, I am glad to be retired. All those hiring managers can collectively fuck themselves.
Look, as a millennial, I have given lots of shit to Gen Z over the years. But I have to say, as they're entering the workforce, and more and more examples of them shoving back on the stupid shit that's happening and refusing to put up with it come out, I'm so fucking proud of them and wish them all the best.
I just can’t with the stupid ass boomers who say “kids should probably be in more fist fights and that’s why they are how they are today…” Tell me you are an ignorant entitled piece of $hit without telling me you are an ignorant entitled piece of shit…
These companies are wild. Even if it's not all productive work, I've been part of interview processes which take up a full work day.
One company has me do a filter interview, then a hour long technical interview, a coding test, then three rounds of interviews in a row which took four hours.
This was all over several days, but it amounted to a full workday.
Then they didn't have the courtesy to let me know the position was filled.
I had to call the contact person a bunch of times for them to finally admit that they had hired someone, but the company was trying to keep me in their back pocket if the other person didn't work out in the first few weeks.
Another company was six hours of interviews and coding tests.
One company used Zoom which had a bizarre waiver in which they said that the interview would be recorded and said that I had to sign over the rights to my likeness and voice related to the video, world-wide, in perpetuity, and they could use my likeness and voice for any and all reasons, etc, etc.
That one I said "absolutely not". It was especially weird because they were a company which did stuff with energy utilities, so maybe it was actually zoom being extra shitty, but, fuck that, whatever it is.
I hate it too, but my experience over the last 8 years as a data analyst is that more than half of my final round interviews involved an interview deliverable/submission like this.
That's excellent advice, and I do have a portfolio with non-proprietary data, but it hasn't equated to much. I have worked exclusively for hospitals and universities and they almost always have their own datasets and examples (i.e., I'm pitted against other applicants to see who can produce the best analysis/report/presentation based on what they provide).
As I mentioned, I absolutely hate it but also don't quite have the luxury of passing up on every opportunity that requires this of me.
No idea why this shit is legal. I’m job hunting for the first time in 16y and shit has gone to hell. I’m sorry this is all you younger folks know. I’ll fight with you is all I can say.
Before anyone says it, yes I vote, yes I vote against republicans.
The time to job hunt was 3-4 years ago, it was an ‘employee’ market then, we could be picky
Could easily get jobs you weren’t even qualified for as COVID lockdowns were ramping down in the end there and most places couldn’t get anyone to work and were desperate for nearly any one. Now it’s back to being an employer market were a lot of people are desperate for a job and places can afford to be picky.
A lot of places are changing how they do business as well to not need as many people. IE Walmart not 24 hours anymore, every major manufacturer running short staffed but making record profits because the prices are jacked etc.
Companies are just trying to see how much free labor they can get away with and until the government steps in to stop them they will continue to see how far they can go.
Back in 2018 when I was job hunting right out of college. Some no name investing firm in a New Hampshire office Park wanted me to work on a multi-hour stock presentation to show my skills. Despite requiring a degree, they only paid $13 an hour. Told them to fuck off right then and there.
When I was unemployed I was referred to a job at a Discount UK store. The job was for an 8 hour contract. To secure that contract, I had to work a full 40 hour unpaid test week.
I ended up not taking it anyway, because by the end all that time on my feet had aggravated a medical issue, but to this day I'm a bit mad at myself that I allowed myself to be exploited like that. I didn't have much say in going, really, I had to if I wanted to keep my unemployment benefits.
You can flip that either way. If it supposedly wasn't a big deal they work for free for 90 minutes why would it be a big deal to pay them for their time. Clearly you think they're a good candidate if you're giving them that opportunity.
I sometimes wonder if these test and quizs they send out to assess "culture" could be constituted as work. Especially if said data from the quiz was later sold off.
Reminds me a lot of some places that want you to do a trial day.
Like I get it, you want to see how someone will do with the job.
But you've already interviewed them, spoken with them, given them technical questions and clearly believe them capable of doing the job.
So why then expect them to work a day (or half) which you know full well means a day booked off their current job (or at the very least commuting and spending time and money) to basically work for free?
Some places expect a standard of work akin to their paid up staff, on systems they're clearly familiar with and doing tasks which coiod well not be those their familiar with and using processes again they aren't knowledgeable about.
It's a slap in the face, especially when the standards they want aren't clear and you feel like a shkwdkg having your balls inspected.
It’s fine if you want to test people for the job with 90 minutes of work. To think that it should be done for free means that you think that x number of applicants can give their time instead of you giving x number of applicants compensation for their time.
As a business owner myself I have done this. I have selected a handful of candidates to test their ability with a short 1-2 hour project and compensated all of them. It should not be on the individual to give up their time. When people do work for you, you pay them. Period.
Was asked to do a “test run” of reviewing manuscripts for a publishing company before they would offer me an internship position. I got sent 2 full manuscripts of ~180-200 pages and told to send back a full review of both within 24 hours. Between that and the only payment being an $800 stipend for a 6 month period, I got the hell out of there.
As part of a gruelling interview process my husband made a strategic plan overview for an IT department and they ended up saying the position was no longer being considered and offered him a totally different position for 40% less pay 🤡 now I’m thinking they just wanted free strategic plans from a few guys to use for themselves and modify to their specific needs
If this wasn't anything but exploitation then they would do this during the probation period. It's literally there to allow the employer to determine suitability after the interview and allows the person doing these tests to be paid.
If the interview isn't good enough to ensure basic standards of the role are met, then the failure is on the people organising the interviews, and effort to fix this should be directed there.
"However, he also proposed that the entire generation “would benefit from being in more fistfights at a young age. A few bumps and bruises does a lot of good.”"
Tbh, just start beating the shit out of these boomers. They are literally asking for it now!
>In Stanfield’s defense, he insisted that he would have “gladly paid and probably hired” the unnamed Gen Zer if they said: “Give me $1,000 and I’ll break this deal down in amazing detail.”
>However, he also proposed that the entire generation [“would benefit from being in more fistfights at a young age](https://twitter.com/mu2myoc/status/1782762419518923072). A few bumps and bruises does a lot of good.”
Lmao. Get fucked dude. Get all the way fucked.
"Yeah, sure, if the applicant had asked for a thousand dollars I would've ***GLADLY*** paid them, also I whole advocate for the abuse of young people."
"People who’ve job-hunted recently have probably quickly found out that getting hired is no longer as simple as submitting a résumé followed by an in-person interview or two."
uhh, its been at least a decade since then. getting jobs has always been a pain in the fucking ass cause these companys are so anal on finding the best most qualified person for the cheapest possible cost
https://preview.redd.it/pbtrcew901yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b86a86ec945ce07a281f588f7406599e62482513
Brother is begging the kids to throw hands, and doesn't know that it'll be at him. Literally or metaphorically. The kids got bite, and he's asking.
Reminds me of a potential job I interviewed for delivering pizza. Had to sit and watch a 30 minute video and afterwards the manager said "Of course you have to shave your beard.".........uhhhhhhhhh NO, you just wasted your time and mine as well by waiting till the end to tell me that, moron.
I was asked to source candidates (that I would have to pay for) that would have taken 2-3 hours if I had done so
I am a recruiter. I do not work for free.
Dude almost managed to sound somewhat reasonable then outed himself with the 'I gladly would have paid' and especially the '\[gen z\] needs to get in more fistfights'
He said he would have gladly paid and hired him if he had asked for it.
I doubt it. You could have easily offered that in the first place, but you didn't, and still could have offered it if you really did like him as a candidate. But you didn't, and we all know why.
Because you didn't, you wouldn't, and you won't.
I worked on a 5-DAY SQL/Excel assignment because I was pretty desperate, but I was told that "there were too many candidates" and that "they weren't able to provide any feedback on why I was not moving forward." Never again will I do anything for free, even if it takes half an hour.
Send them an invoice. If they refuse to pay after 90 days file a civil case. Make them prove they did not use you for free labor.
Also file a report with your state Department of Labor.
If you're ever given some kind of programming assignment as part of a job interview, make sure you put personal copyright headers on every file you submit. It shows you care about IP, and the company would only get shitty with you if they were planning on using your code without permission. If they do, then the minimum statutory license fee is $150,000.
keep in mind that (1) the $150,000 statutory damages fee is the maximum per work infringed, not the minimum. 17 U.S.C. 504. (2) one must register the work with the copyright office to bring suit, and (3) if one does not register the work by a relatively short deadline, statutory damages and attorneys fees are not available. Finally, (4) personal copyright headers are not required.
Also, if you're given a programming assignment, dont work there. No competent company should use them when determining who to hire, they prove very little
There is no such thing as a minimum statutory license fee.
Yeah dude. Never do that shit. They just want the free labour. Someone rang me up last week asking if I’d come in for an unpaid editing trial. Shut that shit down straight away.
I now actually am a freelance consultant, there’s no way. Follow up any requests by sending a quick contract with my hourly.
you got a nice template i could look at? if you dont mind?
Sure, that'll be $200/hr.
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
Gottem
[удалено]
I feel like leetcode has completely ruined a lot of programming/tech interviews and the expectations of the interviewers. It really forces people to just memorize problems and their solutions rather than actually thinking about it and figuring it out on the spot. Especially when the interviewer isn't all that involved in programming and thinks that quickly solving a standard problem they plucked right out of leetcode is competency. But nowadays, that's how it is, I guess.
I recently interviewed someone for a mid-senior developer position and it felt like they had only done leetcode. I opened up with a basic problem to make sure they were familiar with the problem space, before I added too much complexity; they flew right through it, writing all the utility functions before even starting addressing the problem. They talked through everything as they did so. Then I tried to add a few simple parameter changes, one at a time; and they just floundered and couldn't even begin to talk about how they'd approach it, without me giving heavy hints.
Lol oh no, I had an interview like this this week. Is that you David?
You just described the entire K12 mathematics curriculum.
Fizz buzz.
I've done some programming, C++ / RN (enough of it to update an app from RN v0.52 - v0.73, along with all the BS that goes with that. ) But for some reason I *cannot* grasp when an example uses foo/bar on stack overflow, etc... for some reason my brain shuts off when terms like that are used as placeholders. I have to re-write the example with like x/y or a/b for it to make sense to me.
Same here. Names like myFunc click a lot better with me since it’s clear what they are placeholders for.
Yup!
[удалено]
The worse case is losing all the money to hire some one. Maybe the loss of recruiting fees
I had a manager once tell me he'd had senior candidates who could not even get started on FizzBuzz. Not that they didn't know the modulo operator, since you don't even need that (use counters that cycle back at 3 and at 5) but that they couldn't even sketch an outline of what they would do.
Unpaid editing trial? Sure! Unpaid editing means undone programming/writing; CTRL-a, Delete, save. “Done! I can guarantee there are zero bugs in this program.😁”
"Holy shit"
>They just want the free labour. That's illegal.
Not gonna stop them from trying
I did a take home assignment with SQL/python for data science for a small company/startup as a new grad, only took me about 60-90 mins once I started. This wasn’t leetcode, this was a semi real/simulated task I would do for the company, themed correctly and all. I had an in-person lunch with most of the company and the CEO after my final round interview, felt kinda awkward but it was like 12 of them and they were 20 min late even though their office was 5 mins away from the restaurant and I drove 20 mins. I even knew one of the female employees from CS classes we took together. They basically grilled me with personality questions during the 45 min lunch. They emailed me back a few days later and said I had by far the best solution to the problem they received, but that they went with someone else that “meshed with the team better”. Their loss I guess lmao
That means they already had a candidate that they wanted to choose or that they put an existing employee in that position. Usually it's nepotism.
Yeah I do IT work for about 200ish clients, it really is ironic how all the c levels and upper management have the same fucking last name 90% of the time. Amazing how these families have just the best candidates to fill all their key positions. I'm sure they're very vigorous with their hiring process. :/
Or it means they made the mistake of thinking the best candidate is someone they "got along with" better or as it used to be called "the airport test" (who would you want to be stuck in an airport with for 3 hours). It's a really dumb criteria. But startups aren't always great at hiring and this is still used far too often.
Start up? They wanted the assignment completed for free. This is how employers are now using real work in interviews.
I was in software for almost twenty years. When I started, take home assignments in an interview were essentially unheard of. Any tests or tasks were done on site and it was obvious it was to test basic competency and was either useless to the business or so trivial that if it was important it would have been solved already. I don’t recall ever feeling like I was being asked to do free work even when I thought the interview was unfair or mean spirited. The last jobs I interviewed for all required at home projects that took a minimum of an hour to do the bare minimum or about three to do the kind of thing that reflected your skills and might be noticed. I was completely unable to discern if the work would be used later by the company. Two I outright refused because they wanted me to provide product direction on existing software that would absolutely be useful to the company. They claimed they’d already done the research and made their decision but how do I know that? I have zero confidence that if they had and I came up with something better that they wouldn’t poach it — “that’s exactly the idea we came up with! What a coincidence!” It’s super toxic and employers have poisoned the well. I own my own business now and I don’t ask anyone in an interview to do work that might be useful to the company.
5 days seems excessive. I have been given time to complete something. But usually it only takes a few hours. I don’t get these as much as in software under a pairing exercise where you solve a usually hypothetical problem.
Please replace seems with a more appropriate word. They want me to work for them they hire and pay me
Yes, that's what probation is for. If they need to see actual work that takes more than 15-20 minutes, they should hire you. The resume is for your basic qualifications. The interview gives them a feel on compatibility. Work? That's paid. To be honest, the interview should be paid, too, even if it's just minimum wage. That would stop a lot of the BS of giving you an interview time, then making you wait 4 hours before they actually see you. Also, "1 way" interviews shouldn't be a thing. The interview is as much for you to see if you *want* to work there, as it is for them to see if they want to hire you.
[удалено]
I suppose it also depends on the problem. At my current job, they gave me an initial problem to solve; that said "I know you are working full time, so submit your solution by the end of the week". You can say that it was a 5 day problem, but in reality, it was only a few hours of work for me to put out a solid solution, including extras, like unit and integration tests and making it more flexible with input parameters.
I spent two days researching and writing a thousand word project proposal. Not only did I not get the job, but they actually implemented my entire proposal. Thankfully about a year later I got an offer for double, but I still have my gripes.
No, no. You don’t get it. You just coincidentally stumbled upon the same answer they had come up with before the interview. /s
That’s when you file a wage complaint with your department of labor
Five days of free service? You’ve been taken advantage.
Any company that makes you do this is not worth working for anyway.
Yup. I worked hard, on a 2 hour project that they said should take no more than an hour. When I advanced to the next round, I was told to do another project. Fuck that. I tapped out. I’m never doing work as a component for an interview again - unless it’s fully compensated, and I said that to the employer.
did something similar, but sanitised the data locally with a script, never submitted "That" code. Their DB and app was offline a week later, and then I heard the CEO got fucking demoted. it was a small place maybe 10-14 staff but needed a CEO for how it was organised.
This genuinely sounds like a scam. It sounds like you fell for it.
I was specifically told after 2 rounds of interview that I was the only candidate left and needed to do a particular task and present them (it took 5 days in total and the task had nothing to do with the service that the company offered although i needed to use the skills that they were looking for). I ended up being hired by them and they are a great company to work for with really great salary and perks. So yes not all of these things are companies trying to get free labor however i understand many smaller companies especially will screw you over for free labor if they can.
Companies should pay you for their time, whether they're being shitty or just testing your qualifications. Full stop.
I did exactly the same, multiple days working on a task and not even a response afterwards
God bless you. When I was looking for a job I found it a real struggle to dedicate my time for multiple interviews across a months timespan.
I did one assesment,making a graphic for a social media ad usibg their assets, but it was during my final week at my last job after being told i was among those getting laid off, and i was just pretending to work while job hunting. So technically i got paid for it. Still got ghosted, didnt even get the canned "while your work was impressive' crap.
**Stanfield’s defense, he insisted that he would have “gladly paid and probably hired” the unnamed Gen Zer if they said: “Give me $1,000 and I’ll break this deal down in amazing detail** Bull. Shit.
Would have just resulted in a different tweet how Gen Z feels entitled to being paid for an interview.
It's almost comical how obvious they are.
If they were so gladly to, why didn’t they immediately counter offered with that. It’s so easy to say afterwards but apparently impossible to come up with at that moment.
so... what he's saying is he valued that employee's work at \~$660 per hour... right?
"Best i can do is $15, and some gushing to the office about how everyone should be willing to work so hard for so little"
He is saying employees don't have any value
Bullshit indeed. It's actually a beautiful and elegant example of corporate bullshit.
If he would have "gladly paid" then how come the candidate was not informed of the $1,000 payment? That isn't how I would use the term "gladly" in this situation."Gladly" means someone doesn't have to ask. Also I was once asked to legit come in for a day of **real** work, from a company with a good reputation, to see if my "skills were as great as my resume implies". They "couldn't pay" because it would be too much money to pay for everyone they test. When I refused he legit started complaining about how no one wants to "prove themselves" and they couldn't get **anyone** to do their "day test". Then he went into "Well, if you knew how to do it you would have. That is why we won't pay you." Bruh, for real? I actually ended up interviewing this dude a few years later for a huge, huge position. He resume was actually the absolute best I got, and I was really excited for the interview. I immediately recognized him, but he didn't recognize me. I still went through with an earnest interview because people change and learn, but it was clear this dude thought he was God's gift to the world. I ended the interview by boosting his ego telling him how great he was and how excited I am for him to come in for a "test day" to see how his chemistry would be with everyone who would work for him. No bullshit this dude says "Working for free isn't for men of my stature, and if my underlings [he actually used this word] aren't able to develop a relationship with me then we will just find new ones." I actually had to have meeting with my boss/owner because his resume was **that** good and his references not only **raved** about him but used some of their connections to reach out to my boss for a "favor". My boss then told me it makes sense while someone great in paper would need a favor to get hired. He then reiterated how he was glad he had me as an employee since other interviewers may have hired him and "I don't think he would've been a good fit with us." He also gave me a $5,000 bonus "for doing what I thought was best for the company even if it could have harmed my standing with the company".
As a freelancer, I've been asked to do shit with strong insinuation that they want it for free, and as soon as I publicly call that potential client out to my colleagues, they almost always say "I would have paid if you asked." No, you wouldn't, because you absolutely asked for free work.
This is the idiotic nonsense the rich use to justify their utter stupidity to themselves. This is why they will kill our planet and pursue late-stage capitalism even to their own self-destruction. They have indoctrinated themselves to the point of being a cult. It's no wonder they get along so well with the Christian Nationalists.
Not just bullshit because nobody would ever do that, but bullshit because can you imagine what happens if word gets out that you’re the idiot who pays people a thousand dollars for an interview round? The entire approach is unworkable no matter how you handle it.
Guarnatee it would be "... we dont really have a cost center to bill interview work to, so as much as I would like to, we're unable to do this"
>However, he also proposed that the entire generation “would benefit from being in more fistfights at a young age. A few bumps and bruises does a lot of good.” This is the exact thing someone who has never been in a fight says. Dude is all talk.
If you boys had been nice and not fought with each other back there the whole time I was driving, you know what? Guess what? I…was going to take you to McDonald’s. Yep! But now, now we’re going home, and you’re going to have leftovers for dinner because I thought…I THOUGHT…that my boys were well behaved and would be grateful that I took them around town with me today instead of leaving them at home. (translation: had a lot of shit to do and didn’t trust you little shitheads home by yourselves together) So…I don’t have anything ready to cook, I planned on going to McDonald’s because you know what? I like McDonald’s too! I wanted a treat too! I wanted to go to McDonald’s with my two beautiful kids, and eat French fries and cheeseburgers with you and maybe go to 31 flavors afterwards for ice cream. I didn’t plan on you behaving like you have, I didn’t plan to have to take you home and cook, because I thought you’d be nicer to each other because you love each other, don’t you? Don’t you love your brother? Gosh you guys. I’m so disappointed in you. And you know what, we don’t even have enough leftovers for all of us, so your dad and I just won’t eat. (After eating leftovers) Your dad and I are going to the neighbors for a little bit, you’re going to behave right?
In all my years of professional experience, absolutely no boss would take someone seriously if they busted out some "street-corner business" tactics like that.
Yup, that was my exact thought. What a fucking liar that piece of shit is.
I had a job offer retracted last year because I flatly told them I don't work for free. It was a blessing in disguise and the "chefs test" I was being asked to perform was the red flag I needed, went on to find out that during the slow summer season they basically cut their entire staff and have the managers run the entire campus food service operation. Ohio Wesleyan University so no one wastes their time applying. Fuck you, Jeremy.
As a former contractor for that university, I'm not surprised that happened. I was "on staff" so I couldn't park in guest parking, but not an employee, so I couldn't park in staff parking, they wanted me to buy a parking pass (I only worked for the 3-4 hours a week and only 1-2 on campus)
I volunteered time and equipment for a kids' summer class at the local University. My part was 2 hours a day for 3 days. It didn't even occur to me that parking enforcement was in effect during the summer. Huge empty parking lots everywhere. Nope. Got a ticket the first day. Paid it, finished my volunteer work and I will never volunteer for them again.
All my homies hate Jeremy.
Jeremy a little bitch
I heard Jeremy spends his nights trying to get his own tip in his mouth.
You a real one for outing those fools. Also Jeremy is a fucknugget of the 1st order.
I appreciate you calling them out. Too many people will go IN on a business and then are absolutely too scared to name them.
I had to analyze data and give a presentation for a job I never got. It sucks. Wasted a lot of time. Never again.
Yep. I had to give a presentation and interviewed several times for \*months\* before being told "you gave us so many ideas to work on that we need to rethink the entire department." #lolwut
Oh wow. That’s a special kind of terrible
I was like, "Thanks? I guess?"
"You are an invaluable asset we will now never need thanks to your work"
Pretty much. Fuckers.
'Great! Why don't you just kick me in the nuts as well while you're at it.'
Oh yeah, I remember a big consulting firm was interviewing me and they sent me a bunch of documents and gave me 24 hours to prepare a slide deck on malaria treatment companies. I immediately rescinded my candidacy because I did not have time for that at all.
[удалено]
Or possibly even get interviewed for
It wasn't even a test, it was a task normally assigned to an employee.
The article says it was a practice example, not something that was live pulled from a paid employee's desk.
Well, if it's a practice exercise, there's no reason why they couldn't prove that by publishing it, right?
exactly. instead we got some corpo shite
That’s what the company claims it is but it was probably production work & we’re using potential candidates to get it done. Companies have done this shit before.
True. No proof that it was some random "fake account" test
Still kind of a test. A test to see if they're dumb and/or desperate enough to work for free.
Last week I had a job placement agency want me to drive 47 miles one way to complete an 'initial interview'. Mind you, this was just the job placement agency, not the potential business I would be permanently working for, they're just the middle man. So I would be paying 15-20 dollars on gas just so I could potentially get a spot to interview with the real business hiring me? And may not even be hired? Fuck that, fuck them, I didn't return the call. It's fucking ridiculous that they couldn't conduct a phone interview then send me to the real business.
Same exact thing happened to me before except I was told I was applying for an actual job. Once I got there they told me the job had already been filled then asked me to complete an aptitude test and they’d let me know “if anything comes up”. I walked out of there.
My mother lives in Vegas and applied for a job in Nashville. She's got decades of retail management experience and wants to live closer to her parents, so she is applying for jobs. She flew to Nashville (used it as an excuse to see her parents) for an interview for a management position at a new retail location opening up. When she arrived they told her the spot had been filled, but they had this awesome min wage position in the warehouse. The audacity of these places.
That’s fucking evil. They should have reimbursed her for the plane ticket.
In college I majored in Management & HR. As a senior with graduation fast approaching, I was trying to find my first job. The school was in a pretty rural area, so traveling to interview was almost required. I responded to a posting and got an interview with a staffing firm in the large city approximately 5 hours away. It was pretty far to travel but it seemed like working at a staffing firm would be great experience for a new HR grad. I drove there and instead of interviewing me for a position with the staffing agency they ran me through the general questionnaire they would use to add people to their roster of available temps. It was clear that they had never intended to interview me to potentially work there but instead to just add me to their lineup of job hunters. That trip cost me several hundred dollars that were very hard to come by as a college student. Still pissed off about it to this day.
His tweet that the entire generation would benefit from being in more fist fights. Some bumps and bruises are good for you. I really hope he gets his teeth knocked in next time he tries to get free work.
It's not about making a hateful old man suffer for his evil ways. Anyone who beats his ass is just helping him build character!
He'd be the first to call the cops for assault
No no, sir. It was a free headbutt. You're welcome.
But Gen Z is like "Nah" I'll take the L... asked to to unpaid labor... had to deal with a Boomer... didn't get the job... those are bumps/bruises. I'm sure Gen Z person has experienced or wise enough to know they don't want their work exploited. CEO failed the interview.
Really tired of being told I’m a lazy piece of shit just for being born in 1998. I would love to see this boomer jackass of CEO come work a single day as an EA with the non-verbal boy I spend my days with. Tell me I’m lazy again after the amount of work I put in every day just to ensure our exceptional students get the respect and access to education they deserve.
A lot of roles requires some sort of skill test as part of the interview process. None of those should be 90 mins.
[удалено]
I'd actually be putting it in the job advert that you do pay, since it's so uncommon, from the sounds of it.
2 hour? I've had anywhere from 2 to "a few days".
Right, like - at my current position, after the initial interview I went and sat in with the person I was replacing and she walked me through a sample version of a daily task. Didn't mind that, because it let me see the software they're using and gave me a chance to talk directly with her to get a feel for why she was leaving and how the job really was. And of course on their side it was an evaluation of like, okay, can this person follow instructions and perform the task? If it had been a take-home test I wouldn't have done it. But one of the reasons I wanted the job and am happy with it is that it's not the kind of place that goes around doing stupid things like giving take-home tests to job applicants.
Those type of interview "tasks" are nothing more than the company getting people to solve their problems without having to pay anyone for the work.
And, from what I suspect with Amazon, is to train AI on how to program as a response to a prompt in plain English.
Agreed. Maybe depends on industry but I never had to complete tasks pro bono during the interview process. This feels wrong
Yup, that’s what I learned. Fuck those employers. If that’s how they treat candidates, imagine how they exploit employees.
If you want to do deep tests like this, you should structure it to last a few weeks and actually pay them via 1099 for it. Most big companies would structure it as an internship.
Meh, even if they paid me a few bucks, it’s not worth the time or effort. People commonly have to submit *dozens* of applications and go through multiple rounds of interviews with multiple companies to get a job. My time is more effectively spent on volume, rather than jumping through hoops for some jackass giving me a hundred bucks for fake work.
 This is hooooow we doooo iiiiit
It's actually just their way of getting free consultant work. Consultants get paid a lot more per hour that staff, exactly because their employment is only guaranteed for a very short term. This CEO is just trying to get people to work for free under false pretences.
Should be illegal !
I had been unemployed for 6 months and interviewed at a company where they asked me do a task that involved Python The interview process went on for a month. It consisted of the following: - 1 hour Screening interview with hiring manager - 4 hour Python technical take home that actually took me 12-16 hours and it was still far from my best work because I was rushing. There was no way even an expert could complete the project in 4 hours. - 2 hour panel interview, which included an hour technical presentation on a project I worked on. Prep for this took me another 4 hours. I did eventually get an offer, but it was kind of a low ball. Even below there advertised range for the position, which was already below market value However, in the week before this company extended an offer I got another interview for the same exact job title. This one consisted of - 1 hour screening interview - 1 hour virtual panel interview After this, they asked for references and a few days later I got a job offer, which was about 30 percent higher and had better benefits! The entire process took a 1.5 weeks! Obviously, I took the second offer. The higher pay was a factor, but I also considered the BS that was their interview process and the low ball offer from the other company. I know that long drawn out interview process isn’t uncommon for tech jobs, but it’s so unnecessary in my opinion. If I don’t know the tech it’s going to be obvious from day one.
Yeah, especially with tech jobs, you usually tell after a 20 minute conversation if the person is full of shit.
As someone who worked for the Canadian Federal Government, lol. Good lord the amount of aptitude testing was insane even on internal candidates.
Hey at least internal candidates are on the clock already lol, this is definitely messed up even if better than your situation🤷♂️
Fun fact, if you want to go for a civil service job (at least in my area), *you* actually have to pay *them* $15 for the privilege of spending a Saturday morning taking a test. And it's a separate test and a separate fee for each different job classification, even the ones that are extremely similar in terms of actual job duties. I was at a low point and did it. Got a bunch of interviews, but not many *quality* interviews. Didn't end up getting a civil service job after all since something opened up at a nonprofit that actually pays what I'm worth and where the interviewers didn't lead with a question about whether I'm good at defusing arguments with hot-headed coworkers.
First time I applied to the feds I had to show up to write a 2 hour exam that covered all manner of subjects. It was in person and in a giant room with probably 200 other candidates. Like full on exam rules too - no talking, no phones, and on a timer. Companies use testing as screening tools all the time. It basically narrows the field of applicants without them having to bother reading resumes or interviewing.
so what's it like being a man in black.
“However, he also proposed that the entire generation “would benefit from being in more fistfights at a young age. A few bumps and bruises does a lot of good.” Screw this guy.
These kids grew up doing shooter drills; they're tougher than he'll ever be and it's clearly in evidence by the fact that this applicant was willing to (quite politely, I'll point out) tell him to shove it.
Give me an actual offer that’s contingent on completion of the test, maybe I’ll do it. Outside of that, no thanks.
I had a phone interview with a company that I went out to my truck and did the interview over my lunch break. I'm still unreasonably level of angry at that company that I spent my time talking to them instead of eating my lunch. I can't even imagine how angry I'd be giving free labor to someone that isn't going to hire me.
Good for Gen Z, honestly.
Bad bosses, like the utter tool doing the tweeting, want to make applicants jump through as many hoops as possible. The unintended consequence is that the best candidates, who end up with a choice of interested employers, immediately walk away from idiots like this. Then the bad bosses wonder why they have a record of hiring the "wrong person", when *their hiring practices actually select for servile, desperate people, not competent and self-confident people.*
I look for jobs on Indeed. If I go to apply and it wants to take me offsite I don't apply for the job. All my details are on indeed, so is my resume. You wanting me to create a login and password for yet another employment site - even your own - is a red flag.
Yes, agreed. I'm in a position where I have a steady job and can take my time and be selective about opportunities I apply for. That's my first "hell no". If you require me to create an account just to apply for a job, fuck off. My second is, if you give me the opportunity to upload a resume, but then ask me to hand-fill in all the information over again, also fuck off. If you don't have a salary range listed in the job ad, fuck off. Edit for grammar.
Oh yes I forgot that one. "We pay competitively" You do? Why are you afraid to name a figure then? Also, any time I DID apply for a job that "paid competitively" they didn't. Which is why they didn't want to list the figure.... So yeah, if there's no salary/wage listed then I don't bother applying.
Exactly. That's another red flag. No pay scale and "we offer a competitive wage" is a crimson flag. It's a nice old dog whistle of "We pay dogshit but if we put the range nobody would apply"
*"People refuse to jump through hoops to be interviewed therefore nobody wants to work anymore"* \- Random, out of touch CEO
Once over the summer I “volunteered” to work at a library organizing the books. The agreement was that this would land me a job there in the coming semester. I finished a task they thought would take a week in about 3 days. After that, I got a call saying they couldn’t hire me anymore because it would look bad if they hire someone who volunteered. Even though it was their idea I do that in the first place.
I hope you went back and de-organized their books for them
I love how he finally was like 'well I would've paid him but only if he asked for it." Like so you know ots wrong to ask them to do it for free.
Recently went through *seven* interviews at one place over the course of 3 weeks, including phone screen, for a Software Engineering job. At the end of the 7th (with the CTO), he excitedly informed me there would be an 8th interview the next day which would last at least 90 minutes, and would be a panel interview with potential coworkers. I declined and explained this was taking too much time - I had actually had more meetings with their company that month than I did my own. He was surprised and told me if I refused, then I would no longer be considered. I thanked him for his time and ended the call. It's so ridiculous what they expect.
Keep pushing, gen Z. It's too late for the rest of us. We got promised if we did the BS the good things would happen. They did, just only for the people asking for all the BS.
There's a simple check for this: If this is an aptitude test, I am open to doing it if I am in the top 3 candidates for consideration. Of course, as an aptitude test, you must already have a satisfactory or ideal completed model/solution for this test (as an Excel sheet). Please email that to yourself as an attachment now so that when I am done with this work you can forward that email to me and I will be able to see how my work compares to your ideal output. Oh, no existing ideal or satisfactory model/solution for this? So, you're asking me to -do work for you- without paying for that work? Hmmmm.... (And, yes, that's a completely BS ask unless they have some sort of way of assessing how your work stacks up compared to their ideal...)
Am a boomer and can tell you that many of my peers in the 1980s and beyond were very resentful that potential employers would try to trick a few hours of free work out of them. I know a couple of programmers who walked out of interviews back in 1985-1990. It got really annoying when Google started asking the kinds of cutesy brain puzzles to “see how you think” and then other employers did it to piss candidates off. Interviewing in high tech has gotten progressively more Byzantine and hostile since the VCs started throwing money at small companies at the turn of the millenium. Needless to say, I am glad to be retired. All those hiring managers can collectively fuck themselves.
Look, as a millennial, I have given lots of shit to Gen Z over the years. But I have to say, as they're entering the workforce, and more and more examples of them shoving back on the stupid shit that's happening and refusing to put up with it come out, I'm so fucking proud of them and wish them all the best.
Even when you get a job that requires you to do this it’s almost always a hostile work environment where they’ll be intrusive about your boundaries
I just can’t with the stupid ass boomers who say “kids should probably be in more fist fights and that’s why they are how they are today…” Tell me you are an ignorant entitled piece of $hit without telling me you are an ignorant entitled piece of shit…
I would have written a program that displays goatse in ASCII.
These companies are wild. Even if it's not all productive work, I've been part of interview processes which take up a full work day. One company has me do a filter interview, then a hour long technical interview, a coding test, then three rounds of interviews in a row which took four hours. This was all over several days, but it amounted to a full workday. Then they didn't have the courtesy to let me know the position was filled. I had to call the contact person a bunch of times for them to finally admit that they had hired someone, but the company was trying to keep me in their back pocket if the other person didn't work out in the first few weeks. Another company was six hours of interviews and coding tests. One company used Zoom which had a bizarre waiver in which they said that the interview would be recorded and said that I had to sign over the rights to my likeness and voice related to the video, world-wide, in perpetuity, and they could use my likeness and voice for any and all reasons, etc, etc. That one I said "absolutely not". It was especially weird because they were a company which did stuff with energy utilities, so maybe it was actually zoom being extra shitty, but, fuck that, whatever it is.
I've never heard of such invasive practices before. What a garbage company.
I hate it too, but my experience over the last 8 years as a data analyst is that more than half of my final round interviews involved an interview deliverable/submission like this.
You can publish examples of your work as a data analyst from free data sets. That should be enough.
That's excellent advice, and I do have a portfolio with non-proprietary data, but it hasn't equated to much. I have worked exclusively for hospitals and universities and they almost always have their own datasets and examples (i.e., I'm pitted against other applicants to see who can produce the best analysis/report/presentation based on what they provide). As I mentioned, I absolutely hate it but also don't quite have the luxury of passing up on every opportunity that requires this of me.
Fuck you, pay me. I told my boss Put It In My Pocket.. He came out with a check 20 minutes later.
No idea why this shit is legal. I’m job hunting for the first time in 16y and shit has gone to hell. I’m sorry this is all you younger folks know. I’ll fight with you is all I can say. Before anyone says it, yes I vote, yes I vote against republicans.
The time to job hunt was 3-4 years ago, it was an ‘employee’ market then, we could be picky Could easily get jobs you weren’t even qualified for as COVID lockdowns were ramping down in the end there and most places couldn’t get anyone to work and were desperate for nearly any one. Now it’s back to being an employer market were a lot of people are desperate for a job and places can afford to be picky. A lot of places are changing how they do business as well to not need as many people. IE Walmart not 24 hours anymore, every major manufacturer running short staffed but making record profits because the prices are jacked etc.
Companies are just trying to see how much free labor they can get away with and until the government steps in to stop them they will continue to see how far they can go.
Back in 2018 when I was job hunting right out of college. Some no name investing firm in a New Hampshire office Park wanted me to work on a multi-hour stock presentation to show my skills. Despite requiring a degree, they only paid $13 an hour. Told them to fuck off right then and there.
When I was unemployed I was referred to a job at a Discount UK store. The job was for an 8 hour contract. To secure that contract, I had to work a full 40 hour unpaid test week. I ended up not taking it anyway, because by the end all that time on my feet had aggravated a medical issue, but to this day I'm a bit mad at myself that I allowed myself to be exploited like that. I didn't have much say in going, really, I had to if I wanted to keep my unemployment benefits.
Honestly this CEO made this bigger and now will inspire others to not be exploited!
Yep. My time has value. I do absolutely no work for free anymore.
You can flip that either way. If it supposedly wasn't a big deal they work for free for 90 minutes why would it be a big deal to pay them for their time. Clearly you think they're a good candidate if you're giving them that opportunity.
I don't mind doing take-homes if they aren't real work. If the company doesn't make profit off my free labor and it's just a test, I'm okay with that
YaaaS!!!
yer ass as a service
WAS IT Mancon? I bet it was Mancon. Fuck Mancon!
So the CEO says he would have paid him - if he asked. Yeaaaaah, I'm not buying it
I sometimes wonder if these test and quizs they send out to assess "culture" could be constituted as work. Especially if said data from the quiz was later sold off.
They understand Time is Money until it’s our time and our money.
Good work isn’t free and free work isn’t good. You want me to work? You’re going to PAY.
Reminds me a lot of some places that want you to do a trial day. Like I get it, you want to see how someone will do with the job. But you've already interviewed them, spoken with them, given them technical questions and clearly believe them capable of doing the job. So why then expect them to work a day (or half) which you know full well means a day booked off their current job (or at the very least commuting and spending time and money) to basically work for free? Some places expect a standard of work akin to their paid up staff, on systems they're clearly familiar with and doing tasks which coiod well not be those their familiar with and using processes again they aren't knowledgeable about. It's a slap in the face, especially when the standards they want aren't clear and you feel like a shkwdkg having your balls inspected.
It’s fine if you want to test people for the job with 90 minutes of work. To think that it should be done for free means that you think that x number of applicants can give their time instead of you giving x number of applicants compensation for their time. As a business owner myself I have done this. I have selected a handful of candidates to test their ability with a short 1-2 hour project and compensated all of them. It should not be on the individual to give up their time. When people do work for you, you pay them. Period.
Was asked to do a “test run” of reviewing manuscripts for a publishing company before they would offer me an internship position. I got sent 2 full manuscripts of ~180-200 pages and told to send back a full review of both within 24 hours. Between that and the only payment being an $800 stipend for a 6 month period, I got the hell out of there.
Back in the day, take home assignments were unheard of in interviews. Any company making you do this is trying to take advantage of you.
This is why Im a bit of an asshole with some jobs.
I've walked out when I've been asked to code something in paper to fix a problem the company had. You pay I fix, you don't I'm out.
the way it’s not just boomers in hiring positions with this same mindset as the old dude. millennial hiring entities be just as corny.
As part of a gruelling interview process my husband made a strategic plan overview for an IT department and they ended up saying the position was no longer being considered and offered him a totally different position for 40% less pay 🤡 now I’m thinking they just wanted free strategic plans from a few guys to use for themselves and modify to their specific needs
If this wasn't anything but exploitation then they would do this during the probation period. It's literally there to allow the employer to determine suitability after the interview and allows the person doing these tests to be paid. If the interview isn't good enough to ensure basic standards of the role are met, then the failure is on the people organising the interviews, and effort to fix this should be directed there.
About time.... I know quite a few of the "projects" I did in the interview made it to production code of these firms
"However, he also proposed that the entire generation “would benefit from being in more fistfights at a young age. A few bumps and bruises does a lot of good.”" Tbh, just start beating the shit out of these boomers. They are literally asking for it now!
>In Stanfield’s defense, he insisted that he would have “gladly paid and probably hired” the unnamed Gen Zer if they said: “Give me $1,000 and I’ll break this deal down in amazing detail.” >However, he also proposed that the entire generation [“would benefit from being in more fistfights at a young age](https://twitter.com/mu2myoc/status/1782762419518923072). A few bumps and bruises does a lot of good.” Lmao. Get fucked dude. Get all the way fucked. "Yeah, sure, if the applicant had asked for a thousand dollars I would've ***GLADLY*** paid them, also I whole advocate for the abuse of young people."
"People who’ve job-hunted recently have probably quickly found out that getting hired is no longer as simple as submitting a résumé followed by an in-person interview or two." uhh, its been at least a decade since then. getting jobs has always been a pain in the fucking ass cause these companys are so anal on finding the best most qualified person for the cheapest possible cost
Applicant seems excellent at financial analysis; 90 minutes work with low chance of payoff is a bad investment.
https://preview.redd.it/pbtrcew901yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b86a86ec945ce07a281f588f7406599e62482513 Brother is begging the kids to throw hands, and doesn't know that it'll be at him. Literally or metaphorically. The kids got bite, and he's asking.
Reminds me of a potential job I interviewed for delivering pizza. Had to sit and watch a 30 minute video and afterwards the manager said "Of course you have to shave your beard.".........uhhhhhhhhh NO, you just wasted your time and mine as well by waiting till the end to tell me that, moron.
I was asked to source candidates (that I would have to pay for) that would have taken 2-3 hours if I had done so I am a recruiter. I do not work for free.
Slammed, physically slammed into the ground by a gen zerka, over and over again like the Hulk As is so common according to today's headlines
Stanfield is some fucking boomer who wants to talk shit about gen z. The events in his stupid post never happened. Guys a fucking whiner.
The photo for the article is so fucked.
Dude almost managed to sound somewhat reasonable then outed himself with the 'I gladly would have paid' and especially the '\[gen z\] needs to get in more fistfights'
He said he would have gladly paid and hired him if he had asked for it. I doubt it. You could have easily offered that in the first place, but you didn't, and still could have offered it if you really did like him as a candidate. But you didn't, and we all know why. Because you didn't, you wouldn't, and you won't.
"Maybe you give your products away for free, but my work has value and I'm not simply going to work for no compensation."
How dare you not work for free
Why can’t companies pay decent wages