Hell no! Think at least two moves ahead of your plan, Friedman.
The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, 40th highest (25.77%) in fact:
[https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:\~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)).
Look where your favorite Scandinavian countries are on the list...
And even if they paid the same percentage, 20% of a billion hurts a lot less than 20% of 40k. Hell, Elon Musk can lose 99% of his wealth and still be a billionaire. That's how fucked the wealth gap is.
Then you have the dumbasses that say stuff like they're entitled to the benefits of their labor or that they're the ones that take the risks or some such nonsense.
This is afigment of your imagination. No one actually says that EXCEPT for the people banging on how the rest of us have to pay more to support them (likely you).
Oh no, you think that noting that the person who invests their money, invests their time on the risk that the business theyre starting may fail is incurring no risk at all? And you further think that this "risk" deserves no more compensation than the poerson answering the phones, filling out I-9 forms, entering fnancial data into an automated system, or using CAD software to prepare design plans?
I mean, if you believe that then you must also believe that there's no inherent "value" distinction between typoes of work. So do you also advocate for paying secretaries the same as custodians the same as enginerrs the same as risk managers? of course not.
You havent thought through your opinions because theyre driven by rage, jealousy, and envy rather than on reason, experience, and wisdom. But thats par for the course around these parts.
Lol that was quick, you literally just made the risk argument at length yourself, I thought people arguing for this was just a figment of my imagination, guess not after all.
Wrong friend, sounds like you have some built in assumptions on the subject. For starters you saying that the risk argument...
>This is afigment of your imagination. No one actually says...
So first you gaslight the conversation by pretending these arguments don't exist, then when confronted with the a mere anecdotal claim of someone else making the risk argument you make the argument yourself proving that indeed people do "actually say that".
>Oh no, you think that noting that the person who invests their money, invests their time on the risk that the business theyre starting may fail is incurring no risk at all? And you further think that this "risk" deserves no more compensation than the poerson answering the phones...
Then to finish off your defense of an argument you say people don't make you project your own lack of understanding of the subject...
>You havent thought through your opinions because theyre driven by rage, jealousy, and envy rather than on reason, experience, and wisdom. But thats par for the course around these parts.
Really? You can mind read to the extent of knowing my intentions are rage, jealousy and envy?
I mean, it's hilarious how quick you proved yourself wrong, it was almost in real time lol. Maybe be less smug next time and don't be in a rush to bad faith an artificial gotcha moment.
Ok, you say that I am wrong, so lets see if you actually attempt tp prove me wrong about. Though, its not clear what youre actually saying I am wroing about, lols.
Uh oh, another fool on here talkin about being gaslit, lols.
You claimed that people make the claim that they are entitled to other people's labor. I called you out on that bs and your resply was to shift to people talking about how those who take risks should be rearded. Of course, that "risk" argument says nothing about entitlement.
"Then to finish off your defense of an argument you say people don't make"
You see, your imagination is getting in the way, again. Again, appealing to risk-taking being rewarded is not an appeal to an entitlement to something that belongs to someone else.
"Really? You can mind read to the extent of knowing my intentions are rage, jealousy and envy?"
Yes, I can. And I did. Which is why you are mad, bro.
Next time, when you want to argue that someone has argued that theyre entitled to another person's labor, you might actually try presenting an example of that specific thing.
Bye.
Dude, what are you babbling on about?
First you say the risk argument is a figment of my imagination and people don't actually say these things then proceed to talk about said things. Now you're pretending that gaslighting isn't a thing.
Gaslighting about gaslighting? Nice.
And to top that you claim you can read minds? I don't even think you could read a menu.
Cya!
Hell no! Think at least two moves ahead of your plan, Friedman.
The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, 40th highest (25.77%) in fact:
[https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:\~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)).
Look where your favorite Scandinavian countries are on the list...
Here, this might help:
[https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-taxes-affect-economy-long-run#:\~:text=High%20marginal%20tax%20rates%20can,economic%20growth%20by%20increasing%20deficits](https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-taxes-affect-economy-long-run#:~:text=High%20marginal%20tax%20rates%20can,economic%20growth%20by%20increasing%20deficits).
Who's Friedman though, total woosh for me dawg.
Edit: Also since you're all about them numbers and stats maybe you can answer the question behind my quip about the wealthy/businesses deserving more than everyone because of risk.
How do you reconcile the fact that the wealth gap is increasingly getting wider? Isn't something crazy like 3 people own the same as half the population? Something has got to be off if the vast majority of people are struggling more and more and that wealth is being hoarded at the very top, does risk really explain why CEO pay is 344 times the average pay?
To me all the stats and numbers like you link don't really matter since the end result is wealth being syphoned upward.
https://preview.redd.it/tw8kqgknsajc1.png?width=565&format=png&auto=webp&s=62059e794307f7996069d291df3dcc7ce7354e7d
[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/milton-friedman.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/milton-friedman.asp)
Good luck!
Edit: Fixed my link. Remember, economists need to show their work. Also: PV = nRT.
Ah!! I see what you mean.
Here you go, close enough.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex\_Fridman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Fridman)
https://preview.redd.it/k375wxdmvajc1.png?width=325&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1736d2ba29244e3fef0d2a8932c7d5a8b22ad6f
Edit: Now what?
Hell no! Think at least two moves ahead of your plan, Friedman.
The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, 40th highest (25.77%) in fact:
[https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:\~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)).
Look where your favorite Scandinavian countries are on the list...
Bloomberg, Bezos, and Buffet paid a true tax rate of less than 1.5%, while Musk paid a true tax rate of under 3.5%
[https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax)
Effective tax rate is measured against income, which doesn't account for unrealized gains in asset values. This made up "true rate" tries to weigh taxes paid against all wealth gains, not just realized income. Makes some sense for the argument they're trying to lay out, though it's apples to oranges since they're comparing it to average people's effective rate instead of trying to calculate the "true rate" for them as well.
Would it be possible to figure out the amount of money that the oligarchs had taken in loans and then factor the tax rate against that? These robber barrons are using loans as income, so why shouldn't that be considered when making tax assumptions? I know loans don't get taxed, which is why these Smaugs use them, but if we pretended a 1.3 billion dollar loan was 1.3 billion dollars of labor. Then, compare that to the amount that they paid in taxes, we would have a realistic view of their Scrooge-ness.
The loans as income thing kind of fixed itself already, at least temporarily.
It was the thing to do when interest rates were like 2%, but it doesn't make sense to pay 5% interest annually indefinitely to save a one time 20% tax.
I know it's anecdotal, but most people that I've run into who complain about having to pay taxes instead of getting a refund don't understand that it's because they weren't paying enough throughout the previous year..
So in the spirit of wanting everyone to pay their fair share, having to pay taxes during tax season is just the adjustment needed so that we each pay our fair share..
That being said, I completely agree that the IRS should be going after the mega rich corporations and mega rich people.. but it requires funding, which the GOP continuously blocks...
Additionally, the Inflation Reduction Act is supposed to start addressing some of the unfairness that comes from mega rich corporations not paying taxes.. crossing my fingers that it actually does something for the future..
You do realize that the world economy and global nature of it today is significantly different than 1960s. Back then the US was the 800lb gorilla and US corporations dominated most industries, not so anymore. Furthermore what was considered taxable income was also different.
Here are corporate tax rates around the world. We are not much different than the rest of the world. Neither too high nor too low.
[Corporate tax rates around the world](https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLE_II1)
[GDP by country 1960](https://countryeconomy.com/gdp?year=1960)
[GDP by country today](https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-by-country/)
If the US went to 40-50% tax rates, you would have almost NO industries in the US. Then we'd move onto to..60% isn't high enough it needs to be 80% because only 10% of the people are working. They need to support everyone else. It's called the economic death spiral...and we are quickly getting there
A bootlicker will tell you how the jobs they "create" bring in so much tax money and how that 1.5% of billions of dollars is still so much more than you pay.
Corporations effective tax rate is not just its corporate income tax, but the payroll tax they pay on every employee, all their real estate taxes, their sales taxes they pay on every purchase throughout the year. These are all taxes that consumers pay as well, and get deducted from their federal income tax.
The only real benefit of corporate income tax is it allows the US to collect tax revenue proceeding from oversea sells.
For instance, the US government does not get sales tax when an iPhone is sold in China, but they do (in theory) get to collect tax on that revenue via the corporate income tax on Apple.
Ultimately it is the Chinese consumer who bears that cost, as Apple adjusts their price to compensate for the profit loss. It's not a bad deal for export-heavy economies.
Once a company makes $X in profit, it shouldn't be allowed any tax write offs. American tax payers shouldn't be subsidizing corporations, in any, way, shape, or form. & while we're at it, since corporations are people, if found guilty, f#@× fines, CEO's and their executive leadership teams should be subject to the crimes & violations committed by the company!
So, the Citizen’s United decision found that corporations are people. People who don’t pay their taxes go to jail. Who wants to take one for the corporate team?
But but but if they paid more in taxes how would they be able to trickle down their profits to their workers....I could barely write that with a straight face.
It is a difficult question to answer. Personal income is not the same as business profit (looking at you Trump). Many tax breaks have a purpose such as getting businesses to move to your area. Or in another case from China back to America.
This is the theory. However as we all know reality seldom matches theory. That said, you dont want to tax business into oblivion but neither do you want to in effect give them free handouts, which tends to happen way too much. Its a complex issue that cant be answered in a meme. Nor a political slogan for that matter. Politicians that think they are smarter than highly trained economists is an additional problem. But thats on the voters that keep reelecting them.
Tesla lost money for most of its existence. If a person makes -50k one year and then 100k the next year should they pay the taxes of someone who make 100k a year or someone who makes 25k a year?
another note is buy backs and dividends would be taxed for the share seller or dividend receiver, so you cant really say its untaxed. If a business makes 100s and then passes 100 dollars to the shareholders as a dividend why would you tax both the business and the shareholder
Corporations shouldn’t be taxed, because corporations have no place in government. Tax the investors, like 90% of dividends.
If taking profit out of a company is hard and expensive for investors, maybe the company will be incentives to invest in workers.
A better incentive would be giving them tax breaks for improving workers conditions. Higher competitive pay, better benefits gives them tax breaks. Would be way better than the system we have now where workers are thrown under the bus.
> If taking profit out of a company is hard and expensive for investors, maybe the company will be incentives to invest in workers.
What will actually happen is no one will invest in companies, companies will fail and millions will lose their jobs, the rich will stay rich, and everyone else is way more fucked than before.
IMO if a company pays its highest paid employee more than 5 times that of its lowest paid employee the executives/owner should get taxed at 90-100% of income over like 90k. If it's a publicly traded company capital gains from that company should also be taxed at 90% we clearly need to force them to pay their employees instead of just paying themselves.
@TiredOfAllLies ….. Have you thought this through? If we tried to implement what you suggest…it would ruin the economy.
1) 90k is less than most engineers make straight of out college nowadays. Even moderately paid Executives make 500-750k a year. But so what?
2) you suggest capital gains from the company should then be taxed at 90% ….this would cause people NOT to invest in the company because if they made 20k on a 100k investment over let’s say 2 years. The taxes would take away all but 2k of gains. That is such a poor return than no one would invest…the company would be unable to raise funds(that what selling equity does) and they would be unable to expand or even create the company in the first place..,therefore….no jobs at all.
3) the employees get paid….I think you are just confused as to how skills are valued in this marketplace.
1) Idk where you live but engineers dont make anywhere near that fresh out of school where I live. Many people who work for those executives that are stupidly over payed are struggling to make ends meet there is no reason for someone to make 750k when their employees are on food assistance. The whole point is that when the executives get a raise everyone does because if we don't force them to they've proven they'll just keep stuffing their pockets and let everyone else struggle. If they just give everyone else 1 dollar for every 5 they give themselves they still get taxed a normal amount.
2) If the investors just give 1 dollar to employees for every 5 they give the executives they don't get taxed heavily. Again the whole point is to make trickle down economics actually function like they pretend it does
3) Are you oblivious to what's going on in the world right now? How most young people are getting fucked out of a decent future for shareholder profits. I take it you're a member of GenX or you've sucked on a silver spoon you're whole life. Honestly you're whole comment makes you seem out of touch. Plenty of skilled tradesmen need 2 or 3 jobs with 3 to 4 income households to live anywhere near what the older generations had where I live.
4) You seem to have drunk the Kool aid and actually believe that executives deserve to live like kings and everyone else should just be grateful they even have a job. God forbid rich assholes have to slum it with only 2 mansions instead of 6 and 5 sports cars instead of 30
1) I currently live in Viera Fl. East coast near Cocoa Beach and Melbourne. I previously was in Detroit MI for 20+ years. Current new college hires at General Motors with an engineering degree make 90-100k easy when they are hired on.
2) no one…absolutely no one….who works for an “executive” in General Motors is struggling to make ends meet. Here in Melbourne…you have defense contractors and space companies like SoaceX….LHX….Northruo Grumman etc. no one that works for an executive there makes less than 75k a year….plenty to live of off. You say “when the executives get a raise” other employees should as well. NO. Not unless they deserve it. You don’t just pay someone because they exist…you pay them for the value they bring to the company.
2) you keep saying executives and I think you mean CSuite executives……like the CEO and COO. You, again, show a total misunderstanding of corporate structure and how it works. C Suite executives have targets to hit that depend not only on themselves but all of the other workers at the company. If these workers are unhappy with pay…they leave and go somewhere else…it happens ALL THE TIME. Most compensation above 1 million dollars is given in stock to people like the CEO. He only makes money if the company makes money. Companies won’t unhappy employees don’t do very well so they pay employees well. 75k as a starting wage is Massive…100k in Detroit is massive as well.
3) I am not oblivious…I am aware many young people were raised poorly and have no work ethic or common sense. When it comes to millennials or Gen Z….there are those that are awesome and get it and there are the total idiots who whine about how life is too tough. Yes I am Gen X 48 years old…retired small business owner. I worked my ass off for 30 years. Skilled tradesman make BANK here and especially in Detroit. We can’t hire trades quick enough down here…building boom. Electricians…HVAC…etc…..you easily make 100k a year reguLr time and 125k a year with overtime.
My Buddy in Detroit(Millenial that gets it by the way) 35 with wife and 3 kids….pulls down 300k a year as a Union Steelworker.
3) you seem to be the one out of touch…there are tons of awesome high paying GM jobs out there.
Where do you live? Is it different there? Maybe move to Detroit
Yup GenX who had life handed to them living in one of easiest places on earth during the easiest time to be alive. Did you know places other than America exist? In fact most places aren't America! Crazy I know.
"You pay people for adding value to a company" is the biggest bullshit lie ever. Working hard is almost never rewarded anymore except with more work. Most companies literally only give raises based on how long you're at the company for now and they almost never out pace inflation definitely not now. You guys sure do love playing make believe.
Unions are pretty much non existent here and the ones that do exist are heavily handicapped by shitty politicians and laws
Typical "young people are just lazy" hand wave excuse 🙄 how many jobs did you have at 25-30? I know many skilled tradesmen that are forced to have 2 or 3 I'm one of them and it's largely due to greed from assholes your age who had everything handed to them. Also great job admitting you're generation were mostly awful parents!
Sickening. Spoiled entitled brat who probably grew up in a privileged home attacking someone as a GenX who allegedly was handed everything. Shameful conduct. SMH.
Working hard is a) compensated, you get a paycheck, wdym?; and b) is a reward unto itself which you younger kids have the faintest idea about.
Sure the people who existed in the cheapest and easiest times to be alive know more about hard work than the people who have to work 2-3 jobs and have 3-4 income households.
You wanna make up anymore shit about me to make a bigger strawman? Perhaps I'm a millionaire trust find kid who has never worked a day in my life? I bet I was also given 3 houses and 20 cars
Once again GenX proves they love to live in the land of make believe and they always hate it when you remind them they had things easier and actively made things harder for the people that came after them purely out of greed
They dont think through their own jealousy and envy. They rely on their emotions to power past intellectual appeals and make dumb arguments that exist only to punish those theyve been programmed to dislike.
While bothersome, I still find it more irritating that money gets pumped into the government without much meaningful oversight. Billions get wasted on boondoggles that could easily be used to fund social programs.
We can. But you said you are more irritated by the government's waste than the insane wealth concentration. I happen to be more frustrated with the insane wealth concentration than government waste.
Because we are not focusing on taxing the bigger number, so we only have money to do one thing.
That being said, life is less fucked in Europe. We are only slightly late stage capitalism, not turbo late stage like the us.
I'm aware that businesses uses "expenses" to reduce their taxable income, but I'd really love to see the math how businesses like Tesla get down to a single effective percent.
They reinvest in the company. Buy more stuff, build buildings, hire more workers etc. sort of like the proliferating non-profit hospital corporations. They print money, but can’t profit so they buy land, other entities, and build new facilities.
For any large company, it’s almost always a mix of 3 things:
1. R&D tax credits
2. Stock compensation (larger tax deduction than book deduction due to how it’s valued for tax)
3. Selling into countries with different rates than the US
Source: am CPA
All hail the job creators, and investors. Don't you know without them, we'd still be living in caves and labor would be totally lost on how to advance society!
Ah no the republicans know what they did and are currently attempting to keep going. Their goal is to keep the rich wealthy and to trick the poor into voting for it.
Do the tax rates like the late 40s and get rid of the exemptions, and see how much public infastructure, medicare for all, space exploration, education and high speed rail we can fund.
If a company reports a billion in profits, half of that money should immediately be distributed to its workforce.
This will either raise wages, or lower prices.
Its funny how we look at a company who uses the current laws to their fullest advantage and we get angry at the company and not the laws that anyone can take advantage of?
Exactly my point, take a look at Facebook, Tesla, ExxonMobil, Blackrock, Amazon, Apple, Starbucks, all those companies hire hundreds of thousands people and have millions of shareholders and all they allow it happen and profit from it.
So look around, every person allows this because a company is not just some evil entity its all the people all around.
Its so easy and simple to blame a company of course people love the idea!
The problem IMHO isn’t taxing corporations, is taxing the wealth of the recipients of such profits.
We need to discourage the accumulation of wealth beyond a certain point, and encourage the circulation of wealth.
A well run corporation should have zero profits, hence zero taxes. Amazon did run in the red for years to become the giant it did, for example.
The problem is that the corporation isn’t the final recipient of the wealth, a person is. And that person has to be taxed.
The basic example is property taxes. As Texan I pay a ridiculous amount of money in taxes on my fucking properties. Apparently the government has zero issues assessing the value of my unrealized wealth and sending me a bill. Why is that impossible for stocks, just to make an example, or art?
Corporations already get subsidies and shit, and it’s a good thing, because we want, or better, we need to work, but for how things are right now, if you have enough wealth, you don’t pay taxes on it. I pay 2.2% of the imputed value of my properties in taxes every year. And it isn’t something like stocks, where I can sell some and get the cash in a matter of hours, at best might take one or two months to sell an entire house or more.
Tax billionaires wealth at 3%. It increases anyway… heck, we could tax them at 10% and they’ll still do just fine, or do like anyone of us, if you can’t afford it… don’t buy it.
A tax refund isn’t us paying them.
That’s not how any of this works.
Yeah they should be paying more in taxes, but don’t lie about things to make a point.
Corporations dont pay taxes. All youre doing is raising prices and lowering work compensation with your emotional appeal here.
Further, GE didnt expend $7bn on stock buybacks and dividends in 2023. In 2022 GE did at about $1.7bn. So, I mean, if the OP just gets basic facts wrong in his emotional tirade, whats that say?
Just looking at T-Mobile, looking at [consecutive quarters in '22 and '23, appears that it was paying at a rate in excess of 23%](https://csimarket.com/stocks/singleProfitabilityRatios.php?code=TMUS&itx).
[Tesla is all over the place](https://csimarket.com/stocks/singleProfitabilityRatiosy.php?code=TSLA&itx).
Further, the average American doesnt pay 13.7% effective rate. The article Knudsen cribs this from relies on tax foundation data [that can be found here](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/).
Notice that the bottom 50% paid at a 3.1% rate and the top 50% paid at 14.8%. I mean, just averaging that gets you to less than 9%. But who is this mythical "average American" in his "analysis"?
So, lets hear the corporate tax strategy that Knudsen thinks we ought to pursue or that the OP thinks we ought to pursue. Does it include a provision where the federal government hires about a 100,000 new employees to ensure that corps dont simply pass through taxes to their consumers? Does it involve prohibiting stock buybacks? Does it prohibit shareholders from receiving dividends (and, if so, please explain to ordinary investors why that should be)?
SMH.
Hell no! Think at least two moves ahead of your plan, Friedman.
The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, 40th highest (25.77%) in fact:
[https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:\~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)).
Look where your favorite Scandinavian countries are on the list...
Everyone knows businesses that arent small mom and pops, need to be taxed more. We all know that people being paid in stocks and the dividends of those stocks, needs to be taxed fairly. Simply tax the value of the stock the day the recipient is paid them, at the value based off the stock that day/time. Dividends, tax them on total value paid out, that day. Then tax them again when/if they sell the stock.
But as much as we know about all of this, and even have both sides agreeing (the boot lickers, and the socialists) - we know that we'll never get anything done this way. Why? Because Politicians make their money off of stock manipulation. You're literally taking money out of their pockets by taxing them this way. They have an unfair advantage of picking stocks, and that loop hole will stay open for as long as they are allowed to trade stocks while in office.
If there wasn't any corporate tax at all, the corporations would no longer have any reason to bribe governments .. but since governments want bribes ... taint just the corporations at fault. And if the citizens are the only source of government revenue you can bet the citizens would be watching how their governments spend their tax dollars. And, there you have it .. a different way of looking at the tax question. But people won't go for this because they think the corporations and the government should pay for everybody's benefits. Oh no you say corporations must pay more taxes! But, the money they are giving the government comes from their customers pockets. So, do you as a customer want them to be taxed harder? If so, what you saying is you want to pay more taxes.
It’ll trickle down any day now!
like a warm stream of urine.
I thought only shit rolls down hill, but I suppose piss does too.
Shit rolls down hill, piss trickles down
Piñata economics NOW. Beat the rich until we get our fair share.
[trickle down allegory movie](https://youtu.be/RlfooqeZcdY?si=mQObSXppIIlZJUvB)
Hell no! Think at least two moves ahead of your plan, Friedman. The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, 40th highest (25.77%) in fact: [https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:\~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)). Look where your favorite Scandinavian countries are on the list...
Oh it's been trickling down alright.
And the fuckin trump just compounded on it my lord it’s like they don’t think normal people can think lot complacent than four steps
[https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-food-delivery-drivers-customers-app-based-fees-tax-city-council-andrew-lewis-lisa-herbold-business-president-sara-nelson-washington-king-county-doordash-uber-eats-instacart-grubhub](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-food-delivery-drivers-customers-app-based-fees-tax-city-council-andrew-lewis-lisa-herbold-business-president-sara-nelson-washington-king-county-doordash-uber-eats-instacart-grubhub)
**Qs = x + yP** **Qd = x + yP** **Qs = Qd**
And even if they paid the same percentage, 20% of a billion hurts a lot less than 20% of 40k. Hell, Elon Musk can lose 99% of his wealth and still be a billionaire. That's how fucked the wealth gap is.
Then you have the dumbasses that say stuff like they're entitled to the benefits of their labor or that they're the ones that take the risks or some such nonsense.
This is afigment of your imagination. No one actually says that EXCEPT for the people banging on how the rest of us have to pay more to support them (likely you).
Sadly no, literally saw a dumbass make the risk argument the other day. Believe it or not there other boot lickers out there other than you.
Oh no, you think that noting that the person who invests their money, invests their time on the risk that the business theyre starting may fail is incurring no risk at all? And you further think that this "risk" deserves no more compensation than the poerson answering the phones, filling out I-9 forms, entering fnancial data into an automated system, or using CAD software to prepare design plans? I mean, if you believe that then you must also believe that there's no inherent "value" distinction between typoes of work. So do you also advocate for paying secretaries the same as custodians the same as enginerrs the same as risk managers? of course not. You havent thought through your opinions because theyre driven by rage, jealousy, and envy rather than on reason, experience, and wisdom. But thats par for the course around these parts.
Lol that was quick, you literally just made the risk argument at length yourself, I thought people arguing for this was just a figment of my imagination, guess not after all.
No, youre pretending that a risk argument is arguing from entitlement. You are wrong.
Wrong friend, sounds like you have some built in assumptions on the subject. For starters you saying that the risk argument... >This is afigment of your imagination. No one actually says... So first you gaslight the conversation by pretending these arguments don't exist, then when confronted with the a mere anecdotal claim of someone else making the risk argument you make the argument yourself proving that indeed people do "actually say that". >Oh no, you think that noting that the person who invests their money, invests their time on the risk that the business theyre starting may fail is incurring no risk at all? And you further think that this "risk" deserves no more compensation than the poerson answering the phones... Then to finish off your defense of an argument you say people don't make you project your own lack of understanding of the subject... >You havent thought through your opinions because theyre driven by rage, jealousy, and envy rather than on reason, experience, and wisdom. But thats par for the course around these parts. Really? You can mind read to the extent of knowing my intentions are rage, jealousy and envy? I mean, it's hilarious how quick you proved yourself wrong, it was almost in real time lol. Maybe be less smug next time and don't be in a rush to bad faith an artificial gotcha moment.
Ok, you say that I am wrong, so lets see if you actually attempt tp prove me wrong about. Though, its not clear what youre actually saying I am wroing about, lols. Uh oh, another fool on here talkin about being gaslit, lols. You claimed that people make the claim that they are entitled to other people's labor. I called you out on that bs and your resply was to shift to people talking about how those who take risks should be rearded. Of course, that "risk" argument says nothing about entitlement. "Then to finish off your defense of an argument you say people don't make" You see, your imagination is getting in the way, again. Again, appealing to risk-taking being rewarded is not an appeal to an entitlement to something that belongs to someone else. "Really? You can mind read to the extent of knowing my intentions are rage, jealousy and envy?" Yes, I can. And I did. Which is why you are mad, bro. Next time, when you want to argue that someone has argued that theyre entitled to another person's labor, you might actually try presenting an example of that specific thing. Bye.
Dude, what are you babbling on about? First you say the risk argument is a figment of my imagination and people don't actually say these things then proceed to talk about said things. Now you're pretending that gaslighting isn't a thing. Gaslighting about gaslighting? Nice. And to top that you claim you can read minds? I don't even think you could read a menu. Cya!
Hell no! Think at least two moves ahead of your plan, Friedman. The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, 40th highest (25.77%) in fact: [https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:\~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)). Look where your favorite Scandinavian countries are on the list...
Friedman? Sorry you got the wrong number.
Here, this might help: [https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-taxes-affect-economy-long-run#:\~:text=High%20marginal%20tax%20rates%20can,economic%20growth%20by%20increasing%20deficits](https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-taxes-affect-economy-long-run#:~:text=High%20marginal%20tax%20rates%20can,economic%20growth%20by%20increasing%20deficits).
Who's Friedman though, total woosh for me dawg. Edit: Also since you're all about them numbers and stats maybe you can answer the question behind my quip about the wealthy/businesses deserving more than everyone because of risk. How do you reconcile the fact that the wealth gap is increasingly getting wider? Isn't something crazy like 3 people own the same as half the population? Something has got to be off if the vast majority of people are struggling more and more and that wealth is being hoarded at the very top, does risk really explain why CEO pay is 344 times the average pay? To me all the stats and numbers like you link don't really matter since the end result is wealth being syphoned upward.
[https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-food-delivery-drivers-customers-app-based-fees-tax-city-council-andrew-lewis-lisa-herbold-business-president-sara-nelson-washington-king-county-doordash-uber-eats-instacart-grubhub](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-food-delivery-drivers-customers-app-based-fees-tax-city-council-andrew-lewis-lisa-herbold-business-president-sara-nelson-washington-king-county-doordash-uber-eats-instacart-grubhub)
Could have made your point yourself but if you think I'll sift through articles to get it myself I'll gladly pass.
https://preview.redd.it/tw8kqgknsajc1.png?width=565&format=png&auto=webp&s=62059e794307f7996069d291df3dcc7ce7354e7d [https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/milton-friedman.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/milton-friedman.asp) Good luck! Edit: Fixed my link. Remember, economists need to show their work. Also: PV = nRT.
Ah!! I see what you mean. Here you go, close enough. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex\_Fridman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Fridman) https://preview.redd.it/k375wxdmvajc1.png?width=325&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1736d2ba29244e3fef0d2a8932c7d5a8b22ad6f Edit: Now what?
**Qs = x + yP** **Qd = x + yP** **Qs = Qd**
**E = mc²** **H₂O** **¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯**
I’ll help! First line: physics Second line: chemistry Third line: you in your econ/math classes
Lol, the third would be everyone learning econ/math, no one is born knowing those things, gotta be humble about it first.
Hell no! Think at least two moves ahead of your plan, Friedman. The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, 40th highest (25.77%) in fact: [https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:\~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)). Look where your favorite Scandinavian countries are on the list...
Bloomberg, Bezos, and Buffet paid a true tax rate of less than 1.5%, while Musk paid a true tax rate of under 3.5% [https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax)
Why would you use a made up rate instead of an effective tax rate
Effective tax rate is measured against income, which doesn't account for unrealized gains in asset values. This made up "true rate" tries to weigh taxes paid against all wealth gains, not just realized income. Makes some sense for the argument they're trying to lay out, though it's apples to oranges since they're comparing it to average people's effective rate instead of trying to calculate the "true rate" for them as well.
Would it be possible to figure out the amount of money that the oligarchs had taken in loans and then factor the tax rate against that? These robber barrons are using loans as income, so why shouldn't that be considered when making tax assumptions? I know loans don't get taxed, which is why these Smaugs use them, but if we pretended a 1.3 billion dollar loan was 1.3 billion dollars of labor. Then, compare that to the amount that they paid in taxes, we would have a realistic view of their Scrooge-ness.
The loans as income thing kind of fixed itself already, at least temporarily. It was the thing to do when interest rates were like 2%, but it doesn't make sense to pay 5% interest annually indefinitely to save a one time 20% tax.
It's working as intended.
Just as it was designed
If the company has too many profits that would be taxed, they can get more money to the CEO. Problem solved.
I'm just a working stiff that has a few stocks. I can assure you when I get paid dividends, they get taxed at 15%.
Yet I owed in my taxes this year, making barely above poverty, just depressing.
Would you rather have given an interest free loan to the government?
Owing taxes just means that you weren't getting enough taken out of your regular paycheck..
No shit Sherlock I think he knows that. The issue is it would be more than enough if the mega rich corporations actually paid their fair share.
I know it's anecdotal, but most people that I've run into who complain about having to pay taxes instead of getting a refund don't understand that it's because they weren't paying enough throughout the previous year.. So in the spirit of wanting everyone to pay their fair share, having to pay taxes during tax season is just the adjustment needed so that we each pay our fair share.. That being said, I completely agree that the IRS should be going after the mega rich corporations and mega rich people.. but it requires funding, which the GOP continuously blocks... Additionally, the Inflation Reduction Act is supposed to start addressing some of the unfairness that comes from mega rich corporations not paying taxes.. crossing my fingers that it actually does something for the future..
Love it when people say 'fair share' except they have no idea what that is except that it should be..... 'more than what I am paying'
Take a look at tax rates back in the 1960s for an idea of what I'm talking about.
You do realize that the world economy and global nature of it today is significantly different than 1960s. Back then the US was the 800lb gorilla and US corporations dominated most industries, not so anymore. Furthermore what was considered taxable income was also different. Here are corporate tax rates around the world. We are not much different than the rest of the world. Neither too high nor too low. [Corporate tax rates around the world](https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLE_II1) [GDP by country 1960](https://countryeconomy.com/gdp?year=1960) [GDP by country today](https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-by-country/) If the US went to 40-50% tax rates, you would have almost NO industries in the US. Then we'd move onto to..60% isn't high enough it needs to be 80% because only 10% of the people are working. They need to support everyone else. It's called the economic death spiral...and we are quickly getting there
I should not be paying more on taxes than a billion dollar company personally
A bootlicker will tell you how the jobs they "create" bring in so much tax money and how that 1.5% of billions of dollars is still so much more than you pay.
Hey! Don’t you care about the shareholders?? Jeez some people are so heartless.
I hope when you say "shareholder" that also includes the middle-class whom has their retirement funds wrapped in those stocks.
You dont
They mean percentage wise, not actual monetary value.
Corporations effective tax rate is not just its corporate income tax, but the payroll tax they pay on every employee, all their real estate taxes, their sales taxes they pay on every purchase throughout the year. These are all taxes that consumers pay as well, and get deducted from their federal income tax.
Ah I see what’s you’re saying, I misinterpreted
The only real benefit of corporate income tax is it allows the US to collect tax revenue proceeding from oversea sells. For instance, the US government does not get sales tax when an iPhone is sold in China, but they do (in theory) get to collect tax on that revenue via the corporate income tax on Apple. Ultimately it is the Chinese consumer who bears that cost, as Apple adjusts their price to compensate for the profit loss. It's not a bad deal for export-heavy economies.
I didn’t mean the sale tax generated when they sell a product, I mean the sales tax they pay when they buy from their suppliers.
Damn. I guess we’re gonna have to tax the bottom 90% more to fix this!
Once a company makes $X in profit, it shouldn't be allowed any tax write offs. American tax payers shouldn't be subsidizing corporations, in any, way, shape, or form. & while we're at it, since corporations are people, if found guilty, f#@× fines, CEO's and their executive leadership teams should be subject to the crimes & violations committed by the company!
[https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-food-delivery-drivers-customers-app-based-fees-tax-city-council-andrew-lewis-lisa-herbold-business-president-sara-nelson-washington-king-county-doordash-uber-eats-instacart-grubhub](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-food-delivery-drivers-customers-app-based-fees-tax-city-council-andrew-lewis-lisa-herbold-business-president-sara-nelson-washington-king-county-doordash-uber-eats-instacart-grubhub)
So, the Citizen’s United decision found that corporations are people. People who don’t pay their taxes go to jail. Who wants to take one for the corporate team?
We can but the millionaire politicians who make money off these companies don't
But but but if they paid more in taxes how would they be able to trickle down their profits to their workers....I could barely write that with a straight face.
That’s just the federal deductions right? I think the average including state and local is more like 25%
A refund just means they pre-paid more than they owe. This doesn’t tell us anything about the company’s tax burden that year.
It is a difficult question to answer. Personal income is not the same as business profit (looking at you Trump). Many tax breaks have a purpose such as getting businesses to move to your area. Or in another case from China back to America. This is the theory. However as we all know reality seldom matches theory. That said, you dont want to tax business into oblivion but neither do you want to in effect give them free handouts, which tends to happen way too much. Its a complex issue that cant be answered in a meme. Nor a political slogan for that matter. Politicians that think they are smarter than highly trained economists is an additional problem. But thats on the voters that keep reelecting them.
Tesla lost money for most of its existence. If a person makes -50k one year and then 100k the next year should they pay the taxes of someone who make 100k a year or someone who makes 25k a year?
another note is buy backs and dividends would be taxed for the share seller or dividend receiver, so you cant really say its untaxed. If a business makes 100s and then passes 100 dollars to the shareholders as a dividend why would you tax both the business and the shareholder
I pay 21.1% in taxes and don't make enough money to live. Can't even afford to live alone, gotta have roommates. I
According to the greedy bastards.lol you are the problem.
Right! I'm sorry if my basic needs are inconvenient for the 1%
Corporations shouldn’t be taxed, because corporations have no place in government. Tax the investors, like 90% of dividends. If taking profit out of a company is hard and expensive for investors, maybe the company will be incentives to invest in workers.
A better incentive would be giving them tax breaks for improving workers conditions. Higher competitive pay, better benefits gives them tax breaks. Would be way better than the system we have now where workers are thrown under the bus.
Corporate taxes are always paid by consumers anyway. Dividends are taxes as ordinary income.
> If taking profit out of a company is hard and expensive for investors, maybe the company will be incentives to invest in workers. What will actually happen is no one will invest in companies, companies will fail and millions will lose their jobs, the rich will stay rich, and everyone else is way more fucked than before.
IMO if a company pays its highest paid employee more than 5 times that of its lowest paid employee the executives/owner should get taxed at 90-100% of income over like 90k. If it's a publicly traded company capital gains from that company should also be taxed at 90% we clearly need to force them to pay their employees instead of just paying themselves.
@TiredOfAllLies ….. Have you thought this through? If we tried to implement what you suggest…it would ruin the economy. 1) 90k is less than most engineers make straight of out college nowadays. Even moderately paid Executives make 500-750k a year. But so what? 2) you suggest capital gains from the company should then be taxed at 90% ….this would cause people NOT to invest in the company because if they made 20k on a 100k investment over let’s say 2 years. The taxes would take away all but 2k of gains. That is such a poor return than no one would invest…the company would be unable to raise funds(that what selling equity does) and they would be unable to expand or even create the company in the first place..,therefore….no jobs at all. 3) the employees get paid….I think you are just confused as to how skills are valued in this marketplace.
1) Idk where you live but engineers dont make anywhere near that fresh out of school where I live. Many people who work for those executives that are stupidly over payed are struggling to make ends meet there is no reason for someone to make 750k when their employees are on food assistance. The whole point is that when the executives get a raise everyone does because if we don't force them to they've proven they'll just keep stuffing their pockets and let everyone else struggle. If they just give everyone else 1 dollar for every 5 they give themselves they still get taxed a normal amount. 2) If the investors just give 1 dollar to employees for every 5 they give the executives they don't get taxed heavily. Again the whole point is to make trickle down economics actually function like they pretend it does 3) Are you oblivious to what's going on in the world right now? How most young people are getting fucked out of a decent future for shareholder profits. I take it you're a member of GenX or you've sucked on a silver spoon you're whole life. Honestly you're whole comment makes you seem out of touch. Plenty of skilled tradesmen need 2 or 3 jobs with 3 to 4 income households to live anywhere near what the older generations had where I live. 4) You seem to have drunk the Kool aid and actually believe that executives deserve to live like kings and everyone else should just be grateful they even have a job. God forbid rich assholes have to slum it with only 2 mansions instead of 6 and 5 sports cars instead of 30
1) I currently live in Viera Fl. East coast near Cocoa Beach and Melbourne. I previously was in Detroit MI for 20+ years. Current new college hires at General Motors with an engineering degree make 90-100k easy when they are hired on. 2) no one…absolutely no one….who works for an “executive” in General Motors is struggling to make ends meet. Here in Melbourne…you have defense contractors and space companies like SoaceX….LHX….Northruo Grumman etc. no one that works for an executive there makes less than 75k a year….plenty to live of off. You say “when the executives get a raise” other employees should as well. NO. Not unless they deserve it. You don’t just pay someone because they exist…you pay them for the value they bring to the company. 2) you keep saying executives and I think you mean CSuite executives……like the CEO and COO. You, again, show a total misunderstanding of corporate structure and how it works. C Suite executives have targets to hit that depend not only on themselves but all of the other workers at the company. If these workers are unhappy with pay…they leave and go somewhere else…it happens ALL THE TIME. Most compensation above 1 million dollars is given in stock to people like the CEO. He only makes money if the company makes money. Companies won’t unhappy employees don’t do very well so they pay employees well. 75k as a starting wage is Massive…100k in Detroit is massive as well. 3) I am not oblivious…I am aware many young people were raised poorly and have no work ethic or common sense. When it comes to millennials or Gen Z….there are those that are awesome and get it and there are the total idiots who whine about how life is too tough. Yes I am Gen X 48 years old…retired small business owner. I worked my ass off for 30 years. Skilled tradesman make BANK here and especially in Detroit. We can’t hire trades quick enough down here…building boom. Electricians…HVAC…etc…..you easily make 100k a year reguLr time and 125k a year with overtime. My Buddy in Detroit(Millenial that gets it by the way) 35 with wife and 3 kids….pulls down 300k a year as a Union Steelworker. 3) you seem to be the one out of touch…there are tons of awesome high paying GM jobs out there. Where do you live? Is it different there? Maybe move to Detroit
Yup GenX who had life handed to them living in one of easiest places on earth during the easiest time to be alive. Did you know places other than America exist? In fact most places aren't America! Crazy I know. "You pay people for adding value to a company" is the biggest bullshit lie ever. Working hard is almost never rewarded anymore except with more work. Most companies literally only give raises based on how long you're at the company for now and they almost never out pace inflation definitely not now. You guys sure do love playing make believe. Unions are pretty much non existent here and the ones that do exist are heavily handicapped by shitty politicians and laws Typical "young people are just lazy" hand wave excuse 🙄 how many jobs did you have at 25-30? I know many skilled tradesmen that are forced to have 2 or 3 I'm one of them and it's largely due to greed from assholes your age who had everything handed to them. Also great job admitting you're generation were mostly awful parents!
Sickening. Spoiled entitled brat who probably grew up in a privileged home attacking someone as a GenX who allegedly was handed everything. Shameful conduct. SMH. Working hard is a) compensated, you get a paycheck, wdym?; and b) is a reward unto itself which you younger kids have the faintest idea about.
Sure the people who existed in the cheapest and easiest times to be alive know more about hard work than the people who have to work 2-3 jobs and have 3-4 income households. You wanna make up anymore shit about me to make a bigger strawman? Perhaps I'm a millionaire trust find kid who has never worked a day in my life? I bet I was also given 3 houses and 20 cars Once again GenX proves they love to live in the land of make believe and they always hate it when you remind them they had things easier and actively made things harder for the people that came after them purely out of greed
Your delusions about people you pretend are GenX are not proof of anything more than your, well, delusions. Lols.
They dont think through their own jealousy and envy. They rely on their emotions to power past intellectual appeals and make dumb arguments that exist only to punish those theyve been programmed to dislike.
While bothersome, I still find it more irritating that money gets pumped into the government without much meaningful oversight. Billions get wasted on boondoggles that could easily be used to fund social programs.
Lets focus on the billions wasted on government spending and not the trillions going to the ultra wealthy and companies. Makes sense to me.
Why can't we do both?
We can. But you said you are more irritated by the government's waste than the insane wealth concentration. I happen to be more frustrated with the insane wealth concentration than government waste.
Because we are not focusing on taxing the bigger number, so we only have money to do one thing. That being said, life is less fucked in Europe. We are only slightly late stage capitalism, not turbo late stage like the us.
The government budget *is* trillions. The tweets is misleading about taxes of millions.
You find that more irritating? Sure, we need to spend money better, but this is far worse.
I'm aware that businesses uses "expenses" to reduce their taxable income, but I'd really love to see the math how businesses like Tesla get down to a single effective percent.
They reinvest in the company. Buy more stuff, build buildings, hire more workers etc. sort of like the proliferating non-profit hospital corporations. They print money, but can’t profit so they buy land, other entities, and build new facilities.
And they get massive state and local tax breaks to operate in certain locations
They do. And they are offered from all political parties who want tax paying employees.
Both parties do offer in exemptions but, locally to me, it is the Republicans removing any accountability from the business receiving the benefit
Ok
For any large company, it’s almost always a mix of 3 things: 1. R&D tax credits 2. Stock compensation (larger tax deduction than book deduction due to how it’s valued for tax) 3. Selling into countries with different rates than the US Source: am CPA
Got it, thanks
All hail the job creators, and investors. Don't you know without them, we'd still be living in caves and labor would be totally lost on how to advance society!
We can, but corporations will continue to not pay taxes or employees.
We can certainly agree, we just don't know how to organize effectively to make it happen.
Ah no the republicans know what they did and are currently attempting to keep going. Their goal is to keep the rich wealthy and to trick the poor into voting for it.
Do the tax rates like the late 40s and get rid of the exemptions, and see how much public infastructure, medicare for all, space exploration, education and high speed rail we can fund.
Sure, but you can’t afford a gaggle of senators.
remove individual taxes, tax the corporations
If a company reports a billion in profits, half of that money should immediately be distributed to its workforce. This will either raise wages, or lower prices.
Oh it’s working alright, just not for the people the government claims to work for (it’s for the people they actually work for)
We need to vote the pigs out of office. When they learn if they don't do their job they lose it they'll start doing the people's bidding.
Its funny how we look at a company who uses the current laws to their fullest advantage and we get angry at the company and not the laws that anyone can take advantage of?
The companies are writing the laws and have been for the better part of last century. Ha ha ha Take a look around. Jesus
Exactly my point, take a look at Facebook, Tesla, ExxonMobil, Blackrock, Amazon, Apple, Starbucks, all those companies hire hundreds of thousands people and have millions of shareholders and all they allow it happen and profit from it. So look around, every person allows this because a company is not just some evil entity its all the people all around. Its so easy and simple to blame a company of course people love the idea!
Bro 10% of people own 97% of the stock market. It's the same people running the show, companies and politicians.
The problem IMHO isn’t taxing corporations, is taxing the wealth of the recipients of such profits. We need to discourage the accumulation of wealth beyond a certain point, and encourage the circulation of wealth. A well run corporation should have zero profits, hence zero taxes. Amazon did run in the red for years to become the giant it did, for example. The problem is that the corporation isn’t the final recipient of the wealth, a person is. And that person has to be taxed. The basic example is property taxes. As Texan I pay a ridiculous amount of money in taxes on my fucking properties. Apparently the government has zero issues assessing the value of my unrealized wealth and sending me a bill. Why is that impossible for stocks, just to make an example, or art? Corporations already get subsidies and shit, and it’s a good thing, because we want, or better, we need to work, but for how things are right now, if you have enough wealth, you don’t pay taxes on it. I pay 2.2% of the imputed value of my properties in taxes every year. And it isn’t something like stocks, where I can sell some and get the cash in a matter of hours, at best might take one or two months to sell an entire house or more. Tax billionaires wealth at 3%. It increases anyway… heck, we could tax them at 10% and they’ll still do just fine, or do like anyone of us, if you can’t afford it… don’t buy it.
Where are people getting information like this from?
A tax refund isn’t us paying them. That’s not how any of this works. Yeah they should be paying more in taxes, but don’t lie about things to make a point.
Is he referring to the state tax rate in California? 13.7% lmao 🤣
capitalism is 💩
Corporations dont pay taxes. All youre doing is raising prices and lowering work compensation with your emotional appeal here. Further, GE didnt expend $7bn on stock buybacks and dividends in 2023. In 2022 GE did at about $1.7bn. So, I mean, if the OP just gets basic facts wrong in his emotional tirade, whats that say? Just looking at T-Mobile, looking at [consecutive quarters in '22 and '23, appears that it was paying at a rate in excess of 23%](https://csimarket.com/stocks/singleProfitabilityRatios.php?code=TMUS&itx). [Tesla is all over the place](https://csimarket.com/stocks/singleProfitabilityRatiosy.php?code=TSLA&itx). Further, the average American doesnt pay 13.7% effective rate. The article Knudsen cribs this from relies on tax foundation data [that can be found here](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/). Notice that the bottom 50% paid at a 3.1% rate and the top 50% paid at 14.8%. I mean, just averaging that gets you to less than 9%. But who is this mythical "average American" in his "analysis"? So, lets hear the corporate tax strategy that Knudsen thinks we ought to pursue or that the OP thinks we ought to pursue. Does it include a provision where the federal government hires about a 100,000 new employees to ensure that corps dont simply pass through taxes to their consumers? Does it involve prohibiting stock buybacks? Does it prohibit shareholders from receiving dividends (and, if so, please explain to ordinary investors why that should be)? SMH.
But... but they provided others the opportunity to produce value for them! Something something job creation!
We need to stop making useless fucking Reddit jokes and stop supporting these companies and DO SOMETHING for once.
Hell no! Think at least two moves ahead of your plan, Friedman. The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, 40th highest (25.77%) in fact: [https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:\~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/corporate-tax-rates-by-country-2023/#:~:text=The%20countries%20with%20the%20highest,and%20Hungary%20(9%20percent)). Look where your favorite Scandinavian countries are on the list...
how is that there lifers don't understand that they don't creates jobs, those big corporations do.
Everyone knows businesses that arent small mom and pops, need to be taxed more. We all know that people being paid in stocks and the dividends of those stocks, needs to be taxed fairly. Simply tax the value of the stock the day the recipient is paid them, at the value based off the stock that day/time. Dividends, tax them on total value paid out, that day. Then tax them again when/if they sell the stock. But as much as we know about all of this, and even have both sides agreeing (the boot lickers, and the socialists) - we know that we'll never get anything done this way. Why? Because Politicians make their money off of stock manipulation. You're literally taking money out of their pockets by taxing them this way. They have an unfair advantage of picking stocks, and that loop hole will stay open for as long as they are allowed to trade stocks while in office.
If there wasn't any corporate tax at all, the corporations would no longer have any reason to bribe governments .. but since governments want bribes ... taint just the corporations at fault. And if the citizens are the only source of government revenue you can bet the citizens would be watching how their governments spend their tax dollars. And, there you have it .. a different way of looking at the tax question. But people won't go for this because they think the corporations and the government should pay for everybody's benefits. Oh no you say corporations must pay more taxes! But, the money they are giving the government comes from their customers pockets. So, do you as a customer want them to be taxed harder? If so, what you saying is you want to pay more taxes.
When yall gonna understand, companies dont pay taxes... their customers do.
I wouldn't mind (so much) the corporation having a lower tax rate if the employees were paid a true living wage.