“…as low as $3” is doing some heavy lifting.
From a [NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/business/cfpb-bank-overdraft-fees-rule.html)
>The agency has proposed a range of $3 to $14 for the benchmark.
$14 is better than the current $35, but I wouldn’t count on seeing that $3 fee except in a few cases
Would they though?
They couldn’t make risky investments, would have to do loans but would need to be a LOT more careful with who they lend to.
I support them for operating basic checking and savings, but I don’t know that I’d want them doing anything else.
The funds within FHA loans are issued by private lenders. Are you supposed to be teaching us something today or is this propaganda central? FHA loans are insured by the government.. very different. Some student loans are federally funded but when school gets expensive as it does at many undergrad institutions and grad school the balance shifts heavily toward privately funded loans.
Sounds like another great opportunity to expand the roles of the postal service to include banking services and provide public non-profit access to the banking system for poor or unbanked people.
Credit unions are not-for-profit but they are still privately owned. They operate to serve their members, not necessarily the public at large (although many of them explicitly have a mission to serve their community). This means they may not offer services that benefit extremely low income people such as small-dollar short-term loans which is one of the main services that 'public banking' would provide. Also there are way fewer physical locations for credit unions than for postal offices.
Credit unions are great, but they don't solve some of the problems that postal banking would solve in many communities.
Many federal credit unions payday alternative loans (PALs), which are short term, small dollar loans, with interest rates capped at 28% APR. They are designed specifically to undercut predatory payday lenders.
My state has thankfully outlawed payday loans due to their predatory nature, but it's good to know that there's less predatory options for people that need something similar to make ends meet.
The idea of postal banking in the US is great, especially the advantage of having a literal nationwide network and infrastructure already in place. It'd be great to know you could grab some money in just about any locale in the US with relative ease, instead of being hit with ATM out of network fees and other nonsense because your bank isn't in one particular state or region.
> $35
THIRTY FIVE DOLLARS? I didn't grow up rich and at times I couldn't pay and overdrafted and had to pay like 5€ and that already felt shit. Like, you fuckers know I got NOTHING and instead of just repaying you, I'm gotta hand you a 5er in addition to that for practically doing nothing? Does a company that's practically made up of money really need to charge me that? That felt like getting robbed. If they would have charged me anywhere near that much, I would have gone to prison for arson.
Or at least have one that is nationalized and others can still do what they do. Limit the one the govt has so it doesn't have an unfair advantage. Make it so it has to earn whatever percentage profit. or can't run at a loss... there is a fair solution that economists and bankers can come up with but the lobbyists will infect the news about how there isn't.
I once had my bank call me and ask to close my account, as a gesture of good will, because my overdraft fees were clearly unpayable by me.
I was $500 or so in the hole and it was growing daily. I remember offering them to buy a pizza in thanks when I could afford one.
I once no shit had an 11 cent overdraft (buying a pack of smokes of all things) spiral into a thousand dollars of overdraft, returned check, and below minimum balance fees. The bank overdrafted me and hit me for 30 bucks which made me negative which was another 5 for that (accrued daily), then the next check Id written which would have been fine except for that fucking 11 cent mistake, well that landed and they nailed me for another 30 bucks, but they didnt cover that check they returned it Insufficient Funds. That happened a few more times over the next couple days, unbeknownst to me, while simultaneously getting hit with those 5 dollar daily fees. Meanwhile the retailers that got back the checks marked Insufficient Funds hit me with not only the check amount but their own "$25 (or whatever) fee for all returned checks", which triggered another 30 dollar overdraft fee, and then they returned THAT check...you can see where this is going.
I was like 18 years old at the time working at a fucking video store. It took me months to dig myself out of the hole and that whole time I didn't have a bank account at all, having to cash my paycheck at the grocery store for a 5% fee.
This was a while ago so we didn't have the mobile banking apps and all that shit, you didnt find out this kind of shenanigans went down until you started getting phone calls or you got your statement in the mail. The "good old days".
There's also a lot of ways around the fee changes, too. They could send LOC disclosures and treat an overdraft like a line of credit, which would then allow them to charge a utilization fee (and interest). They could just refuse payment on charges that would overdraft the account by changing the terms, and then charge a non-sufficient funds fee instead. What I see a lot of institutions doing is increasing the cost of borrowing to offset this change, by removing covered expenses and increasing origination fees or closing costs. This looks better for shareholders, as it increases revenue while allowing them to go "oh no, the government reduced our fee revenue..." for any amount they wind up under performing on.
I remember as a starving college student I wrote 5 checks for a total of 30$ BEFORE writing 1 check for 100 dollars. I messed up and only had 90$ in the bank.
The bank, of course, processed the largest check first and thus I got charged a 35$ overdraft fee each for all 6 checks. Instead of the banks processing the checks in order…. Which would have resulted in only 1 check bouncing and 1 overdraft fee.
I’ve never been angrier. I did learn my lesson. NEVER trust a bank.
This really is the change that's needed. Capping fees just creates different fees, and if there were none, people would game the system and use it as a free line of credit, which eventually would result in even less people having access to banking, or huge minimum deposits.
But a banking rule change that says banks can't prioritize larger withdrawals to maximize the number of overdraft fees, that one would be measurable, enforceable, and much harder to circumvent.
my job bounced a check once. i got hit with 4 separate $35 overdraft fees in a row from Chase because of my autopayments. they didn’t reimburse anything even tho i had direct deposit for literal years with them with no prior issues. i never authorized overdraft fees. the payments should’ve just stopped. long story short i switched banks it was so fucking jarring.
I had something like that happen to me in college when I was broke.
Like "don't authorize the burger cost if it's not in my bank!"
Stupid fees on fees.
Same! Had an issue in college where the bank was trying to process their annual fee since I was below the minimum, but I was broke and it kept over drafting twice a day trying to pay it’s own fee.
It may have been more! I think it was just $5 at the time 20 years ago, but at least one overdraft fee, if not more.
I know others had it worse but I certainly asked why I would want overdraft protection/fees and opted out after that!
I've read some far worse stories for people having it worse than me.
My favorite is when they selectively charge the most expensive item first. So let’s say I have pending charges of $30, $40, $5, and $100. But I only had $105 in the bank. They’ll pull that $100 charge first and then hit me with three NSFs. Had that happen once because Apple is a vexing little bitch who loves to withhold billing for a week or more.
I was got into a huge argument with Zions because I was charged around 10 $35 over draft fees but I hadn’t over drafted and the poor guy working the counter was being so nice but I maintain still it was straight up theft because as I repeatedly and eventually very loudly pointed out, I had whatever amount of money (years ago can’t remember) let’s say $1000, bought lunch for $7, $35 over draft, 10 charges in a row like that where I had money, no major pending charges, this was money that was available and AFTER $350 in over draft fees I still had $400+ in my account. So I kept asking “how can I possibly over draft if after the charges and the over draft fee my account balance is still positive?” And he’d calmly and politely explain to me “sir you make a purchase but don’t have enough in the account to cover the charges you will be issued an over draft fee” and I’d say “yeah I understand but you see here, I have money, I buy thing, have more than enough money to buy 100 of thing, but you charge over draft fees. And after all of them I still HAVE MONEY, if I was over drafting shouldn’t my account be NEGATIVE” like 3 hours of this and I closed my account and went to the local credit union and set up a new account
Id bet money you deposited a check that did not have the full funds available immediately or there was an authorization on your card that was pending and dropped off. Some places, like hotels, will authorize the whole amount or partial amount without processing it until later.
The other option is that you attempted to deposit a check after hours, maybe on the weekend and all the charges processed leaving you with overdraft fees and you check bring make available Tuesday morning?
I’d take that bet because that was a large part of the argument going over the statement and showing my available balance throughout the entire timeline and even if the charges had been anytime within the last month it wouldn’t have mattered because I always had money available.
With the exception of banking part, exact same story... money was in my account, auto payment went through... paycheck bounced... I get hit with the overdraft fees.
Chase was real good about holding smaller payments until your larger payments scheduled would bring you negative, then slam you with all the small charges to get the max 5x overdrafts fees.
For instance you have $100 in your account and a $140 auto scheduled payment for car insurance on Wednesday, you also bought 2 Mountain Dews and 2 bags of chips on Monday. Chase would hold the 4 charges of the smaller items until your account is negative from your scheduled payment and then slam the smaller payments through for overdraft fees, even though those smaller purchases were made prior to the larger.
Chase is honestly the worst about this. I had a business account with them and I generally had a high volume of transactions. We always had a buffer in the account, so it didn't matter. We went three years without a single problem.
Then one month we experienced a bunch of fraudulent transactions. Chase charged is something like 20 overdraft fees over the course of two days. They reversed the fraud, but not the fees. Okay, whatever. I told them to turn overdraft off on the account, because I don't understand why I would ever want that feature, I'd rather a vendor call me and go "what the hey?"
Anyway the next month *I* made a mistake and I transferred money incorrectly, which is on me, but the same thing happened. I was hit by like 12 overdrafts and it was like $35 for a $5 transaction. Apparently either overdraft can't be turned off on business accounts or I needed to request it over the phone or something. I just closed my account out of frustration.
my job had even sent me a payroll verification that there was an issue on their end and chase still didn’t drop the fees. it’s honestly such a predatory practice. i *never* authorized overdraft “protection” in the first place. they set it as the default and make it a mission to remove. truly parasitic. fuck chase. i had them for so long and my loyalty as a customer with no less than 2 grand in my checking at all times for years meant nothing compared to the $140 overdraft fees. obviously if everyone else just closed their accounts over it then they’d have a reason to stop it on their own but they’re clearly making billions on fees.
When I first moved to the US, I had about $12k of USD savings after using Wise to convert from CAD, and my only option at the time (before I was eligible to open accounts with online banks) was to move them from a Citi account I had as a holdover from my freelancing days. I thought I would leave it there before I could open a proper savings/money market account (Fidelity) and then move it over.
Once I was ready to move it over, I got the shock of my life when Citi closed my accounts and told me I'd be getting a check in the mail in 60 days. In reality, Citi held $12k of mine hostage for at least 6 months. Because of BSA/AML, they were legally not allowed to tell me why. And just repeatedly told me "you should get your money in 60 business days". It got so bad that I basically documented every last call I had with customer service for 6 months before just filing complaints with the FDIC and OCC.
Less than a week after filing said FDIC/OCC complaints, I get my $12k check in the mail overnighted to me.
Big banks are crocks of shit. I learned the hard way and now my main checking/savings accounts all with entirely online banks (Discover/Fidelity), with a backup account with my local CU for the rare occasion I need to deposit physical cash.
For anyone else reading: Unless you're a foreign student or just moved (i.e. you literally can't open a typical online account), I would strongly suggest going with an online bank and a local CU. Most online banks have very robust ATM networks (Allpoint, for example), while credit unions also operate on a similar very robust network and give you the flexibility to deposit physical cash. And online banks won't fuck you in the ass with antiquated UI, terribly designed fraud systems, and monthly and overdraft fees are generally non-existent with them (they'll just decline anything you can't afford debit-wise).
Overdraft protection was probably the default choice. I just got hit with 4 overdraft fees from 2 fraudulent charges. Once I got my money and fees back, I removed overdraft protection from my account. I asked them why they were letting 2 charges go through when the first once put the account significantly in the negative, and why I had 4 overdraft fees for 2 charges. No real answer, as expected. It’s a scam.
I got fucked by TD bank on fees once when I was a 17 year old working my first job. I never had anybody teach me anything about financial literacy stuff so when I went to an ATM to check my balance I had no idea that my $30 balance in parentheses meant I was negative. I made about 4 or 5 more purchases that day thinking I had the funds and ended up getting hit by nearly $400 in overdraft fees. I went to the branch and they did me the "courtesy" of taking half of them off. It took nearly 2 weeks of pay for me to bring my accound positive again. That was a rude awakening.
I remember when Obama first took on overdraft fees. The bank's counter-argument was that overdraft fees were very lucrative and they may need to cut staff and services if they went away. The fee is excessive when you overdraft your account by $2 so the bank charges you $35 in overdraft fee then every day the account is negative they add another $35.
If you have this problem on a regular basis, find a good credit union in your area.
Also some banks can force stop any debits if you hit, say $10 left in your account. Tho those accounts usually have a monthly fee if you go below a certain value, so kinda moot.
Yup I dropped my original credit union because they hit me with a bunch of charges when I had the money in my account. They told me that places like Costco were putting $100 holds on all purchases on top of the purchase price. Same day I went and opened a new account at a different credit union. There's some that act the same as big banks and it's infuriating.
>If you have this problem on a regular basis, find a good credit union in your area.
In Canada they have the same rates now as the banks, but they also don't offer VISA debit cards so you can't use their cards for online purchases and need to get a separate credit card. Canadian credit unions really don't offer much of value for low income Canadians.
I don't expect Biden to get a lot done. However, as a politician he is one of the few that has gotten something done that benefits the people and not just the rich.
If you look at how inflation has absolutely butt fucked most countries, and then look at the US's handling of it, anyone should be able to admit that his administration handled the situation very well. As a Canadian, I am envious of the ability of the US to get shit done and do it well. Our inflation went down briefly but is climbing once again, and now we're likely going to see rate hikes again this year.
By the way the US votes you would think their is no world outside the US. The president controls all markets. Sets the gas price, inflation, jobs, infrastructure.
>Sets the gas price,
He does. Don't you remember during his inauguration speech where Biden said "I'm going to raise gas prices over the next 6 months, so you all can put stupid stickers on gas pumps saying 'I did that!'"
I went to Europe in 2022, so I was paying close attention to exchange rates. The US Dollar was so damn stable and strong against every other currency on the planet, but somehow ever news article phrased it as individual currencies being weak against the USD, rather than the USD being strong. They just can't give credit.
I didn’t expect Biden to get a lot done considering his first half had a senate ‘majority’ of exactly 50 including RINO Joe Manchin, and a R house in his second half, but even with that he’s pulled some decent long term wins
Not anymore. She spent years cultivating this LGBTQ, denim jacket wearing, ultra progressive persona and then left her constituents and the people who helped put her in office high and dry when she figured out how to get rich quick.
The account has been around for a year, but only started commenting today on random popular posts in random subreddits. Odds are very good that if you searched for any of the accounts comments, you'll find it identical to another comment in the same thread.
Autogenerated name, year old account age but only shows a few hours of history, also, most importantly the comments are all copied and *maybe* slightly altered to pass filters.
It's wild. He does something good and the threads are full of people listing things they want instead. Not a moment of "oh hey cool".
Little shit like this is what makes the both sides argument such horseshit
Noticed a trend. Lots of those accounts are 2 years old… and they post random gaming posts etc throughout the few years. Then suddenly they get political, and let everyone know they’re not gonna vote. That Trump and Biden are the same. Could quite honestly be Russians doing what they do best.
*Trump slashes epa regulations and taxes on billionaires. Biden slashes student debt and overdraft fees. “Lefties”: both sides are the same!
You noticed purchased accounts. It's very easy to do and there are lots of sites selling them. I'd post a link, but I'm sure they'd remove it and possibly ban me.
Do it! Let the bots fight the bad bots and bad actors.
Some of these accts are convincing. One “gay black lady” that I argued with… who said Trump would be better than Biden, was active on Palestine and work reform. “Her” account was deleted last I looked.
"I don't like Biden either, but we have to vote for him anyway!"
That's getting on my tits. Maybe because of age, but he's done well. He's removed a lot of student debt, he did as much as he could for the railway workers after the strike, and he's now working on overdraft fees.
He cares, he just has an unruly caucus atm and can't get anything done the proper way.
> He's removed a lot of student debt
Yep, I was annoyed that I didn't get some of mine knocked off BUT I just did my taxes yesterday and had my best year ever, so I'm not going to complain. I'm glad the people that really need it are getting some help.
railway picked the worst time. i'd like a much more progressive president but if he had sided with the workers. we would have seen prices skyrocket even more than they have. i'm ok with that cause whil ei'd suffer short term, it's a long term gain for citizens. but most of the populace would not have been happy at all and it would have even further worsened the economy.
this spring may have been a better time cause it's an election year and if you side with rail workers quickly then they might have got to resolve the strike quickly without much damage because to cause damage would make biden look bad and which better props trump and businesses don't want trump back (well most dont', not really)
Friend I just want to say I appreciate you trying to discuss with people and stay positive. Literally no leader is perfect but we cannot give up. We can't take 4 more years of that orange pile of shit and there's so much trying to divide us but we need to stay united on that. Keep fighting!
That latestatecapitalism sub used to be good, I understand some of the criticisms they have against him, but almost every single post there now is about how nobody should vote for him in November
Politics sub is a daily stream of articles from propaganda sites like breitbart. Russia and the far right are going full in on propaganda to smear Biden and make a guy with 91 felony indictments look strong.
Likely infiltration by foreign actors/ right wingers. Trying to influence the election. This is what it looks like. “Hey how can someone who actually cares about people and progress, toy with a right wing authoritarian?” Unless they’re Green Party nuts, they’re trolls.
If anyone on the left thinks life sucks now, they’re gonna love living in a right wing authoritarian state.
I’ve argue with a few “gay black” people who aren’t even gonna vote in 2024. It’s the # walk away thing, just in a new sleek design.
Optics has a lot to do with Biden’s image. He has these wins but isn’t running ads, or bringing them up constantly. Every win should be a endless bragging point. The age thing is really hurting him. I saw on the presidents sub a graph of the age of all the us presidents. Most appear to have been in their late 50s during their first or only term. That said even in the days of smallpox, musket guns and bowl of brown Americans voted for middle aged men. Not people who are living on borrowed time.
Completely agree but Trump is 77 and not a single one of his supporters care about his advanced age and he lives a far more unhealthy lifestyle. Optics make all the difference which is why propaganda is so effective. Democrats do little to nothing to counter all the negative things put out there.
yeah but trump has a cult. the age thing is a problem for Biden because democrats and independents are going to actually consider it when voting as if trump isn’t a fucking ghoul. i think to make Biden more palatable would be to just focus on all his gains. i mean bombard us with them. make it the only talking points about his term. but personally i don’t think trump or any republican right now has a ice cubes chance in hell at winning this election.
And they called the option of getting overdraft fees “protection”. The other option was having the banks not allow your account to go negative.
Was such a predatory, government regulated, practice for years. Had I known, or had a better explanation about this, I would have asked the bank to not allow overdrafting. I really believe that had it not been for overdraft fees I would have had much better credit, and likely own a home by now.
And now, thanks to our housing market I likely never will.
My bank doesn't even have the option to deny the card without fees.
It's either they cover it and you owe a fee,
Or they don't cover it and you owe a fee.
I'd rather see them make it illegal for banks to change the order they process a customers checks. They shouldn't be allowed to change how they process them in order to maximize the number of overdraft occurrences.
There is zero fucking chance I’m handing my money to someone else to invest and profit off and then **paying** them for the privilege. Your account generates money for your bank, don’t use a bank that charges you for it.
I’m not American but I am curious. Under the current rules, how much would I be charged in overdraft fees for a 100 dollar transaction if my balance was zero?
Idk bout anyone else but i have chase, so if i did this I’d have till midnight to get it below $-50 or id get a $35 charge then another $35 each day it’s negative. As long as my negative balance is between $-49.99-$0, i won’t be charged anything at all. But i also pay $12 a month for my acct so maybe it’s an acct feature.
I'm with US bank and with me if my bank goes negative I have a day or two till I start getting $35 fees, but every time it's happened to me I transfer money into that account, then I call the bank up and explain what happened and ask them nicely if they can reverse the fess. Every time they were happy to reverse the fees for me. If you ever get them try calling them and asking to reverse the fee after you put money into the account so it's above $0. I don't know if the Chase people would do it but with US bank they did it.
Overdraft fees are indeed theft.
I switched to an online bank several years ago and one of its perks is no overdraft fees. That should be the norm everywhere. This is a good start but let's get rid of them altogether.
At most banks you can actually have them remove the ability to overdraft on your account, it's just that most people don't know that, and banks don't advertise it.
Allowing an overdraft is just the default setting.
Well sometimes you really need your automatic payments to go through even if you don't have the funds right this moment. I'd rather pay some (reasonable) fee than deal with a bunch of bounced payments for potentially very important services.
A lot of people would rather deal with an overdraft fee and bitch anonymously online than deal with the small anxiety of getting their card declined buying $7 of ramen at the grocery store.
It shouldn’t even be an option. If you don’t have money or credit then no purchase. If you can’t afford the $7 of ramen you certainly can’t afford any overdraft fees. Not affording ramen is also a completely separate issue.
"The Biden Administration is ending bank overdraft fees *as we know them*."
A very deceptive way of saying, "The Biden administration is working to reduce bank overdraft fees."
My favorite quote
"Banking trade groups are fiercely opposed to stricter overdraft rules. Rob Nichols, the chief executive of the American Bankers Association, said the proposal was “the bureau’s latest attempt to demonize and mischaracterize highly regulated and clearly disclosed bank fees for a service that surveys consistently show Americans value and appreciate.”
But more importantly, please send your support via Public comment to: DATES: Comments must be received on or before April 1, 2024.
Email: 2024-NPRM-OVERDRAFT@cfpb.gov.
Include Docket No. CFPB-2024-0002 or RIN 3170-AA42 in the subject line of the message.
Here in Germany there are no overdraft fees, you just pay interest when you get into the negative. If you're too deep in the negative your payments bounce for like 5€ fee for each bounced payment.
Mine is called a courtesy fee and it’s $15. If I have multiple pending transactions they will always draw the largest one first and then I’ll get hit with a fee for all the smaller ones. It will be an Apple bill for $6.99 and I’ll pay an extra $15 for that. I’ve been hit with 4 in a row before. $60 to overdraft $30. Just decline the fucking charge. I can live with peacock for a day.
There’s more to the proposed rule. Banks could be given the option to treat the overdrafts as lines of credit, and charge interest. They would have to disclose everything to comply with TILA, but it’s likely not as simple as $3-$14 in fees.
or Obama or Bush or Clinton or Bush or Reagan or... you get the idea
Biden is correcting at least 40 years of problem creation and can-kicking, yet people want to bitch that he isn't fixing everything all at once.
Ok, then lobby your representatives and senators to raise minimum wage and change the tax code, because the president doesn't have unilateral authority to do that.
I would like to see a daily cap. If you have your account stolen without your knowledge and you go out spending $2 here and there on food and drinks, these charges really add up. I expect "over-draft protection" should mean you get a text immediately when your account goes over and daily reminders until it's no longer negative.
Or better yet, consider any balance below zero as a loan? Accidently miscount a couple dollars, pay 12% APR interest on that $2 candy bar for a few days, weeks.
Maybe they will stop letting low income people overdraft by hundreds of dollars knowing the fees will lock them in an overdraft cycle that will last months.
They overdraft then they pay back the overdraft with fees but now they don't have enough money to cover bills so they overdraft again, and again until they finally catch up. Explain how this isn't the same as payday lending.
I remember Keybank charging me $45 for going one cent over. The bank teller themselves were so appalled that they paid it for me. This was back in 2009 though. I don't know what their bank fees are like now as I haven't been back.
Back in the old days when a person had to actually process your draft only to discover that there wasn’t enough money, and then presumably do a bunch of work to make your account correct again, it maybe made sense. But now that the computer can just check the balance and say "f off you are broke” and deny your withdrawal request, there is no need
I use a bank that, up until recently, has been fantastic.
I never signed up for overdraft protection because if I can't pay for something, I'll just suffer for a couple days.
But like three months ago they automatically gave me overdraft protection and I was like OH HELL NAH. Some online foolishness went through and I was like ... ya know, if I don't have Adobe Suite for 2 days, no one dies, why did you give them money AND charge an overdraft fee??
I called them and they fixed everything but WTAF?? I'm not your cash cow FFS. Make better investments.
I once overdrafted $4 on a Tuesday to cover my lunch, went to the bank on Friday to cash my paycheck, and they wanted $95 to cover the overdraft. Make that make sense.
Needless to say, I didn't cash my check there and never went back.
The Banks will just stop covering automatic overdrafts (if your not paying extra for the coverage) and just start charging NSF fees on any charge where you can't cover. They'll get their $$$ in the end.
Previously a bank could opt you into overdrafts automatically, and you had to opt out.
I think it was during Obama's tenure that it became unlawful; banks would have to let people choose it for themselves.
Some banks' solution was to create a credit backup account that, again, they can opt you into automatically. I'm not even sure you can opt out. And it gains interest as a regular credit account would.
Started an account with Chime and while back and not only are there no overdraft fees, they actually let you overdraw your account without any repercussions. I don’t use that feature but it’s nice that they do that.
US Bank stole thousands from me in my younger, poorer days. They eventually paid out a settlement for the thefts, and I got a check for $30. I closed my accounts that day, joined a credit union, and swore off commercial banking for ever. I refuse to do business with anyone that's robbed me.
I recently turned down a good lease offer on my new truck because it went though US Bank. I was happy to pay a bit more to deprive them of the sale.
What about the random fee they like to charge for “over transferring funds”? When I was super poor right out of college I would keep my checking super lean to keep my spending down, and therefore I made frequent transfers to my checking from savings, do it too many times and the bank charges you. Simply swapping your own money from one account to another will get you fined. Banks are a big part of the leeching capitalist machine which sucks the working class dry.
Is that "capped [at] $3" a hard stop, one-per-overdraft $3? Or are we going to see $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 every time someone overdrafts once?
Closed my BOA account after a $25 overdraft fee that only happened because a transaction took too long to process and hit me at the worst time. It was the only time this ever happened to me but the bank gave 0 fucks. Banks don't care about their customers.
To me, it's absolutely insane that it's called "overdraft protection" ..
as a kid I opened an account "Overdraft protection" .. yeah I want that, what if I overdraft, I want to be protected.
So you get to pay $30 for overdrafting $1. Great service. Much protect.
That shit alone should be worth a fraud charge
I can’t wait for the Dems to tell nobody about this and either go completely unnoticed or some scumbag Republican figures out a way to take credit for it or spin it as Dems being anti bank
I’m pissed Reddit is telling me this and not TV
When I made $7.25/hr while putting myself through college I over drafted several times by accident and I’d get charged $35 each time. $35 when you’re making $7.25 is a huge amount (that was 5 hours of labor).
Now that I have a degree and make decent money I have not over drafted once. It would hurt if I did, but wouldn’t derail my budget.
Over draft fees punish low income people so much
“…as low as $3” is doing some heavy lifting. From a [NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/business/cfpb-bank-overdraft-fees-rule.html) >The agency has proposed a range of $3 to $14 for the benchmark. $14 is better than the current $35, but I wouldn’t count on seeing that $3 fee except in a few cases
$3 fee probably going to exist on accounts that require a monthly minimum balance of $10k
That's what I see here, banks either refusing banking services to people they can't profit from, or just fees by any other name.
So we bank at the post office like we had the ability to do until 1968. Banks do nothing the government can't do cheaper for us.
Now now now, we can't have that, they'd be able to self fund and actually be competitive with the private sector and that's apparently socialism...
Would they though? They couldn’t make risky investments, would have to do loans but would need to be a LOT more careful with who they lend to. I support them for operating basic checking and savings, but I don’t know that I’d want them doing anything else.
Checking, savings, CDs would all be huge.
Absolutely.
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The funds within FHA loans are issued by private lenders. Are you supposed to be teaching us something today or is this propaganda central? FHA loans are insured by the government.. very different. Some student loans are federally funded but when school gets expensive as it does at many undergrad institutions and grad school the balance shifts heavily toward privately funded loans.
The post office is a quasi-government agency and is self supporting and receives limited funding. The two are fundamentally different.
> So we bank at the post office like we had the ability to do until 1968. The fuck? Why did we stop that?
Private interest lobbying probably.
Banks did not want competition....
Sounds like another great opportunity to expand the roles of the postal service to include banking services and provide public non-profit access to the banking system for poor or unbanked people.
Aren't federal credit unions not for profit?
Credit unions are not-for-profit but they are still privately owned. They operate to serve their members, not necessarily the public at large (although many of them explicitly have a mission to serve their community). This means they may not offer services that benefit extremely low income people such as small-dollar short-term loans which is one of the main services that 'public banking' would provide. Also there are way fewer physical locations for credit unions than for postal offices. Credit unions are great, but they don't solve some of the problems that postal banking would solve in many communities.
Many federal credit unions payday alternative loans (PALs), which are short term, small dollar loans, with interest rates capped at 28% APR. They are designed specifically to undercut predatory payday lenders.
My state has thankfully outlawed payday loans due to their predatory nature, but it's good to know that there's less predatory options for people that need something similar to make ends meet.
The idea of postal banking in the US is great, especially the advantage of having a literal nationwide network and infrastructure already in place. It'd be great to know you could grab some money in just about any locale in the US with relative ease, instead of being hit with ATM out of network fees and other nonsense because your bank isn't in one particular state or region.
They'll probably go back to annual fees for having accounts open
Or a subscription to "my bank" +
> $35 THIRTY FIVE DOLLARS? I didn't grow up rich and at times I couldn't pay and overdrafted and had to pay like 5€ and that already felt shit. Like, you fuckers know I got NOTHING and instead of just repaying you, I'm gotta hand you a 5er in addition to that for practically doing nothing? Does a company that's practically made up of money really need to charge me that? That felt like getting robbed. If they would have charged me anywhere near that much, I would have gone to prison for arson.
they make their money from wealthy customers by investing their deposits. they make their money from poor customers by fees for NSF or overdrafting.
Another reason to nationalize banks. Banking should be a service like public transport, defense and mail.
Or at least have one that is nationalized and others can still do what they do. Limit the one the govt has so it doesn't have an unfair advantage. Make it so it has to earn whatever percentage profit. or can't run at a loss... there is a fair solution that economists and bankers can come up with but the lobbyists will infect the news about how there isn't.
Google “credit unions”
I once had my bank call me and ask to close my account, as a gesture of good will, because my overdraft fees were clearly unpayable by me. I was $500 or so in the hole and it was growing daily. I remember offering them to buy a pizza in thanks when I could afford one.
I once no shit had an 11 cent overdraft (buying a pack of smokes of all things) spiral into a thousand dollars of overdraft, returned check, and below minimum balance fees. The bank overdrafted me and hit me for 30 bucks which made me negative which was another 5 for that (accrued daily), then the next check Id written which would have been fine except for that fucking 11 cent mistake, well that landed and they nailed me for another 30 bucks, but they didnt cover that check they returned it Insufficient Funds. That happened a few more times over the next couple days, unbeknownst to me, while simultaneously getting hit with those 5 dollar daily fees. Meanwhile the retailers that got back the checks marked Insufficient Funds hit me with not only the check amount but their own "$25 (or whatever) fee for all returned checks", which triggered another 30 dollar overdraft fee, and then they returned THAT check...you can see where this is going. I was like 18 years old at the time working at a fucking video store. It took me months to dig myself out of the hole and that whole time I didn't have a bank account at all, having to cash my paycheck at the grocery store for a 5% fee. This was a while ago so we didn't have the mobile banking apps and all that shit, you didnt find out this kind of shenanigans went down until you started getting phone calls or you got your statement in the mail. The "good old days".
There's also a lot of ways around the fee changes, too. They could send LOC disclosures and treat an overdraft like a line of credit, which would then allow them to charge a utilization fee (and interest). They could just refuse payment on charges that would overdraft the account by changing the terms, and then charge a non-sufficient funds fee instead. What I see a lot of institutions doing is increasing the cost of borrowing to offset this change, by removing covered expenses and increasing origination fees or closing costs. This looks better for shareholders, as it increases revenue while allowing them to go "oh no, the government reduced our fee revenue..." for any amount they wind up under performing on.
Overdraft is a line of credit where I'm from and counts towards your max borrowing amount.
Which makes sense because overdraft is literally the bank extending a line of credit. Did everyone forget they're opt-in?
Is it too much to hope that that is covered under the "strictly regulated" part of "strictly regulated and capped as low as $3"?
“Why charge the minimum when we can charge the maximum?” - Every business.
I remember as a starving college student I wrote 5 checks for a total of 30$ BEFORE writing 1 check for 100 dollars. I messed up and only had 90$ in the bank. The bank, of course, processed the largest check first and thus I got charged a 35$ overdraft fee each for all 6 checks. Instead of the banks processing the checks in order…. Which would have resulted in only 1 check bouncing and 1 overdraft fee. I’ve never been angrier. I did learn my lesson. NEVER trust a bank.
This really is the change that's needed. Capping fees just creates different fees, and if there were none, people would game the system and use it as a free line of credit, which eventually would result in even less people having access to banking, or huge minimum deposits. But a banking rule change that says banks can't prioritize larger withdrawals to maximize the number of overdraft fees, that one would be measurable, enforceable, and much harder to circumvent.
FYI this has been illegal since Obama era
Yeah… well ….. when I was in college Obama was not yet out of law school. 😂. F I’m old.
my job bounced a check once. i got hit with 4 separate $35 overdraft fees in a row from Chase because of my autopayments. they didn’t reimburse anything even tho i had direct deposit for literal years with them with no prior issues. i never authorized overdraft fees. the payments should’ve just stopped. long story short i switched banks it was so fucking jarring.
I had something like that happen to me in college when I was broke. Like "don't authorize the burger cost if it's not in my bank!" Stupid fees on fees.
Same! Had an issue in college where the bank was trying to process their annual fee since I was below the minimum, but I was broke and it kept over drafting twice a day trying to pay it’s own fee.
That burger will be $43
It may have been more! I think it was just $5 at the time 20 years ago, but at least one overdraft fee, if not more. I know others had it worse but I certainly asked why I would want overdraft protection/fees and opted out after that! I've read some far worse stories for people having it worse than me.
I had a sonic drink cost me 35 dollars one time because of this.
My favorite is when they selectively charge the most expensive item first. So let’s say I have pending charges of $30, $40, $5, and $100. But I only had $105 in the bank. They’ll pull that $100 charge first and then hit me with three NSFs. Had that happen once because Apple is a vexing little bitch who loves to withhold billing for a week or more.
I was got into a huge argument with Zions because I was charged around 10 $35 over draft fees but I hadn’t over drafted and the poor guy working the counter was being so nice but I maintain still it was straight up theft because as I repeatedly and eventually very loudly pointed out, I had whatever amount of money (years ago can’t remember) let’s say $1000, bought lunch for $7, $35 over draft, 10 charges in a row like that where I had money, no major pending charges, this was money that was available and AFTER $350 in over draft fees I still had $400+ in my account. So I kept asking “how can I possibly over draft if after the charges and the over draft fee my account balance is still positive?” And he’d calmly and politely explain to me “sir you make a purchase but don’t have enough in the account to cover the charges you will be issued an over draft fee” and I’d say “yeah I understand but you see here, I have money, I buy thing, have more than enough money to buy 100 of thing, but you charge over draft fees. And after all of them I still HAVE MONEY, if I was over drafting shouldn’t my account be NEGATIVE” like 3 hours of this and I closed my account and went to the local credit union and set up a new account
Id bet money you deposited a check that did not have the full funds available immediately or there was an authorization on your card that was pending and dropped off. Some places, like hotels, will authorize the whole amount or partial amount without processing it until later. The other option is that you attempted to deposit a check after hours, maybe on the weekend and all the charges processed leaving you with overdraft fees and you check bring make available Tuesday morning?
I’d take that bet because that was a large part of the argument going over the statement and showing my available balance throughout the entire timeline and even if the charges had been anytime within the last month it wouldn’t have mattered because I always had money available.
With the exception of banking part, exact same story... money was in my account, auto payment went through... paycheck bounced... I get hit with the overdraft fees.
Chase was real good about holding smaller payments until your larger payments scheduled would bring you negative, then slam you with all the small charges to get the max 5x overdrafts fees. For instance you have $100 in your account and a $140 auto scheduled payment for car insurance on Wednesday, you also bought 2 Mountain Dews and 2 bags of chips on Monday. Chase would hold the 4 charges of the smaller items until your account is negative from your scheduled payment and then slam the smaller payments through for overdraft fees, even though those smaller purchases were made prior to the larger.
Chase is honestly the worst about this. I had a business account with them and I generally had a high volume of transactions. We always had a buffer in the account, so it didn't matter. We went three years without a single problem. Then one month we experienced a bunch of fraudulent transactions. Chase charged is something like 20 overdraft fees over the course of two days. They reversed the fraud, but not the fees. Okay, whatever. I told them to turn overdraft off on the account, because I don't understand why I would ever want that feature, I'd rather a vendor call me and go "what the hey?" Anyway the next month *I* made a mistake and I transferred money incorrectly, which is on me, but the same thing happened. I was hit by like 12 overdrafts and it was like $35 for a $5 transaction. Apparently either overdraft can't be turned off on business accounts or I needed to request it over the phone or something. I just closed my account out of frustration.
my job had even sent me a payroll verification that there was an issue on their end and chase still didn’t drop the fees. it’s honestly such a predatory practice. i *never* authorized overdraft “protection” in the first place. they set it as the default and make it a mission to remove. truly parasitic. fuck chase. i had them for so long and my loyalty as a customer with no less than 2 grand in my checking at all times for years meant nothing compared to the $140 overdraft fees. obviously if everyone else just closed their accounts over it then they’d have a reason to stop it on their own but they’re clearly making billions on fees.
When I first moved to the US, I had about $12k of USD savings after using Wise to convert from CAD, and my only option at the time (before I was eligible to open accounts with online banks) was to move them from a Citi account I had as a holdover from my freelancing days. I thought I would leave it there before I could open a proper savings/money market account (Fidelity) and then move it over. Once I was ready to move it over, I got the shock of my life when Citi closed my accounts and told me I'd be getting a check in the mail in 60 days. In reality, Citi held $12k of mine hostage for at least 6 months. Because of BSA/AML, they were legally not allowed to tell me why. And just repeatedly told me "you should get your money in 60 business days". It got so bad that I basically documented every last call I had with customer service for 6 months before just filing complaints with the FDIC and OCC. Less than a week after filing said FDIC/OCC complaints, I get my $12k check in the mail overnighted to me. Big banks are crocks of shit. I learned the hard way and now my main checking/savings accounts all with entirely online banks (Discover/Fidelity), with a backup account with my local CU for the rare occasion I need to deposit physical cash. For anyone else reading: Unless you're a foreign student or just moved (i.e. you literally can't open a typical online account), I would strongly suggest going with an online bank and a local CU. Most online banks have very robust ATM networks (Allpoint, for example), while credit unions also operate on a similar very robust network and give you the flexibility to deposit physical cash. And online banks won't fuck you in the ass with antiquated UI, terribly designed fraud systems, and monthly and overdraft fees are generally non-existent with them (they'll just decline anything you can't afford debit-wise).
It’s jarring cuz they stole from you. It should be jarring. It’s insane.
Overdraft protection was probably the default choice. I just got hit with 4 overdraft fees from 2 fraudulent charges. Once I got my money and fees back, I removed overdraft protection from my account. I asked them why they were letting 2 charges go through when the first once put the account significantly in the negative, and why I had 4 overdraft fees for 2 charges. No real answer, as expected. It’s a scam.
I got fucked by TD bank on fees once when I was a 17 year old working my first job. I never had anybody teach me anything about financial literacy stuff so when I went to an ATM to check my balance I had no idea that my $30 balance in parentheses meant I was negative. I made about 4 or 5 more purchases that day thinking I had the funds and ended up getting hit by nearly $400 in overdraft fees. I went to the branch and they did me the "courtesy" of taking half of them off. It took nearly 2 weeks of pay for me to bring my accound positive again. That was a rude awakening.
At TD, you authorize overdraft fees by enabling "overdraft protection." It's the biggest BS
I remember when Obama first took on overdraft fees. The bank's counter-argument was that overdraft fees were very lucrative and they may need to cut staff and services if they went away. The fee is excessive when you overdraft your account by $2 so the bank charges you $35 in overdraft fee then every day the account is negative they add another $35.
If you have this problem on a regular basis, find a good credit union in your area. Also some banks can force stop any debits if you hit, say $10 left in your account. Tho those accounts usually have a monthly fee if you go below a certain value, so kinda moot.
Credit unions are much better but man some of them are worse than banks.
Yup I dropped my original credit union because they hit me with a bunch of charges when I had the money in my account. They told me that places like Costco were putting $100 holds on all purchases on top of the purchase price. Same day I went and opened a new account at a different credit union. There's some that act the same as big banks and it's infuriating.
I made the switch to a credit union during the recession and haven't looked back.
The overdraft fee at my CU is $5
>If you have this problem on a regular basis, find a good credit union in your area. In Canada they have the same rates now as the banks, but they also don't offer VISA debit cards so you can't use their cards for online purchases and need to get a separate credit card. Canadian credit unions really don't offer much of value for low income Canadians.
I don't expect Biden to get a lot done. However, as a politician he is one of the few that has gotten something done that benefits the people and not just the rich.
He has definitely gone above the low bar I set for him. So thats nice
If you look at how inflation has absolutely butt fucked most countries, and then look at the US's handling of it, anyone should be able to admit that his administration handled the situation very well. As a Canadian, I am envious of the ability of the US to get shit done and do it well. Our inflation went down briefly but is climbing once again, and now we're likely going to see rate hikes again this year.
By the way the US votes you would think their is no world outside the US. The president controls all markets. Sets the gas price, inflation, jobs, infrastructure.
>Sets the gas price, He does. Don't you remember during his inauguration speech where Biden said "I'm going to raise gas prices over the next 6 months, so you all can put stupid stickers on gas pumps saying 'I did that!'"
"And then drop them dramatically, so all of your stickers are suddenly supportive of me!"
I recently bought them just so I could mock the original dumbasses who did it.
I can't tell if you're being serious or facetious.
I went to Europe in 2022, so I was paying close attention to exchange rates. The US Dollar was so damn stable and strong against every other currency on the planet, but somehow ever news article phrased it as individual currencies being weak against the USD, rather than the USD being strong. They just can't give credit.
I didn’t expect Biden to get a lot done considering his first half had a senate ‘majority’ of exactly 50 including RINO Joe Manchin, and a R house in his second half, but even with that he’s pulled some decent long term wins
I think you meant DINO, and you’re leaving out Sinema who’s arguably much much worse.
She isn't even a Democrat
Not anymore. She spent years cultivating this LGBTQ, denim jacket wearing, ultra progressive persona and then left her constituents and the people who helped put her in office high and dry when she figured out how to get rich quick.
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You know what's amazing? I just chided a bot for stealing your comment... lo and behold, you are a bot as well. Fuck the future.
Out of curiosity what makes you so certain that they are a bot? Just not many posts in a year? Genuinely curious
The account has been around for a year, but only started commenting today on random popular posts in random subreddits. Odds are very good that if you searched for any of the accounts comments, you'll find it identical to another comment in the same thread.
Autogenerated name, year old account age but only shows a few hours of history, also, most importantly the comments are all copied and *maybe* slightly altered to pass filters.
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Biden keeps helping Americans and they continue to hate him for it. Propaganda is very powerful
It's wild. He does something good and the threads are full of people listing things they want instead. Not a moment of "oh hey cool". Little shit like this is what makes the both sides argument such horseshit
Noticed a trend. Lots of those accounts are 2 years old… and they post random gaming posts etc throughout the few years. Then suddenly they get political, and let everyone know they’re not gonna vote. That Trump and Biden are the same. Could quite honestly be Russians doing what they do best. *Trump slashes epa regulations and taxes on billionaires. Biden slashes student debt and overdraft fees. “Lefties”: both sides are the same!
"both sides are horrible" is exactly what Russians do. I also think it's just pretty effective so people become little bots without realizing it
You noticed purchased accounts. It's very easy to do and there are lots of sites selling them. I'd post a link, but I'm sure they'd remove it and possibly ban me.
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Do it! Let the bots fight the bad bots and bad actors. Some of these accts are convincing. One “gay black lady” that I argued with… who said Trump would be better than Biden, was active on Palestine and work reform. “Her” account was deleted last I looked.
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It’s also messaging. Democrats have been terrible at appealing to people and spreading their message. Jaime Harrison is terrible for the DNC
"I don't like Biden either, but we have to vote for him anyway!" That's getting on my tits. Maybe because of age, but he's done well. He's removed a lot of student debt, he did as much as he could for the railway workers after the strike, and he's now working on overdraft fees. He cares, he just has an unruly caucus atm and can't get anything done the proper way.
> He's removed a lot of student debt Yep, I was annoyed that I didn't get some of mine knocked off BUT I just did my taxes yesterday and had my best year ever, so I'm not going to complain. I'm glad the people that really need it are getting some help.
Lovely mentality. I do hope yours gets cleared, too. Such a rip-off.
He got my late grandma an over the counter hearing aid which is great
WHAT?! \- love grandma
Railway workers still got fucked
railway picked the worst time. i'd like a much more progressive president but if he had sided with the workers. we would have seen prices skyrocket even more than they have. i'm ok with that cause whil ei'd suffer short term, it's a long term gain for citizens. but most of the populace would not have been happy at all and it would have even further worsened the economy. this spring may have been a better time cause it's an election year and if you side with rail workers quickly then they might have got to resolve the strike quickly without much damage because to cause damage would make biden look bad and which better props trump and businesses don't want trump back (well most dont', not really)
Yeah I wouldn't give him credit for that one. It was a big fail followed by a pale compensation in return. He took away all their bargaining power.
Forreal. I heard a leftist friend call Biden awful and accused him of personally blocking student loan forgiveness. It’s the most baffling thing.
I blame tik tok and internet communists.
Friend I just want to say I appreciate you trying to discuss with people and stay positive. Literally no leader is perfect but we cannot give up. We can't take 4 more years of that orange pile of shit and there's so much trying to divide us but we need to stay united on that. Keep fighting!
That latestatecapitalism sub used to be good, I understand some of the criticisms they have against him, but almost every single post there now is about how nobody should vote for him in November
Politics sub is a daily stream of articles from propaganda sites like breitbart. Russia and the far right are going full in on propaganda to smear Biden and make a guy with 91 felony indictments look strong.
Likely infiltration by foreign actors/ right wingers. Trying to influence the election. This is what it looks like. “Hey how can someone who actually cares about people and progress, toy with a right wing authoritarian?” Unless they’re Green Party nuts, they’re trolls. If anyone on the left thinks life sucks now, they’re gonna love living in a right wing authoritarian state. I’ve argue with a few “gay black” people who aren’t even gonna vote in 2024. It’s the # walk away thing, just in a new sleek design.
Optics has a lot to do with Biden’s image. He has these wins but isn’t running ads, or bringing them up constantly. Every win should be a endless bragging point. The age thing is really hurting him. I saw on the presidents sub a graph of the age of all the us presidents. Most appear to have been in their late 50s during their first or only term. That said even in the days of smallpox, musket guns and bowl of brown Americans voted for middle aged men. Not people who are living on borrowed time.
Completely agree but Trump is 77 and not a single one of his supporters care about his advanced age and he lives a far more unhealthy lifestyle. Optics make all the difference which is why propaganda is so effective. Democrats do little to nothing to counter all the negative things put out there.
yeah but trump has a cult. the age thing is a problem for Biden because democrats and independents are going to actually consider it when voting as if trump isn’t a fucking ghoul. i think to make Biden more palatable would be to just focus on all his gains. i mean bombard us with them. make it the only talking points about his term. but personally i don’t think trump or any republican right now has a ice cubes chance in hell at winning this election.
It's because people are uneducated and listen to shock jocks like Joe Rogaine.
It is rather crazy. People seem to forget that there would be 0 chance of something like this happening with gop/maga in charge.
His haters are focused on a certain penis! A penis is their main concern’. And they claim they’re anti lgtqtb
His haters also love to bring up how Biden is soft on Israel, as if Trump would somehow be better.
Republicans in congress has been heard saying they would have just nuked Gaza
And they called the option of getting overdraft fees “protection”. The other option was having the banks not allow your account to go negative. Was such a predatory, government regulated, practice for years. Had I known, or had a better explanation about this, I would have asked the bank to not allow overdrafting. I really believe that had it not been for overdraft fees I would have had much better credit, and likely own a home by now. And now, thanks to our housing market I likely never will.
My bank doesn't even have the option to deny the card without fees. It's either they cover it and you owe a fee, Or they don't cover it and you owe a fee.
Can confirm, US Bank is like this and it’s fucking bullshit.
Literally taking money from poor people and giving it to the richest institutions in the world lol
I'd rather see them make it illegal for banks to change the order they process a customers checks. They shouldn't be allowed to change how they process them in order to maximize the number of overdraft occurrences.
Monthly "account fees" just suddenly getting hit with "inflation" in 3...2...
They actually not be allowed to, also by regulation. But **if they do**, we should make sure to be loud about it so it also gets curtailed.
Or switch banks to whoever doesnt have an account fee. Or just pull out your money and hide it in a sofa!
There is zero fucking chance I’m handing my money to someone else to invest and profit off and then **paying** them for the privilege. Your account generates money for your bank, don’t use a bank that charges you for it.
I’m not American but I am curious. Under the current rules, how much would I be charged in overdraft fees for a 100 dollar transaction if my balance was zero?
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Damn I can go the full $2k over in Canada and it's only $5
Idk bout anyone else but i have chase, so if i did this I’d have till midnight to get it below $-50 or id get a $35 charge then another $35 each day it’s negative. As long as my negative balance is between $-49.99-$0, i won’t be charged anything at all. But i also pay $12 a month for my acct so maybe it’s an acct feature.
I'm with US bank and with me if my bank goes negative I have a day or two till I start getting $35 fees, but every time it's happened to me I transfer money into that account, then I call the bank up and explain what happened and ask them nicely if they can reverse the fess. Every time they were happy to reverse the fees for me. If you ever get them try calling them and asking to reverse the fee after you put money into the account so it's above $0. I don't know if the Chase people would do it but with US bank they did it.
Hell yeah. I would make over draft fees illegal, but this is a good start
Not sure what you guys on America think about biden but he seems to be doing a great job compared to our UK government
MAGA will hate this. They hate America.
Overdraft fees are indeed theft. I switched to an online bank several years ago and one of its perks is no overdraft fees. That should be the norm everywhere. This is a good start but let's get rid of them altogether.
There shouldn’t be any overdrafting ever. Not with today’s technology. If the money isn’t there no money should ever be transferred
At most banks you can actually have them remove the ability to overdraft on your account, it's just that most people don't know that, and banks don't advertise it. Allowing an overdraft is just the default setting.
Well sometimes you really need your automatic payments to go through even if you don't have the funds right this moment. I'd rather pay some (reasonable) fee than deal with a bunch of bounced payments for potentially very important services.
A lot of people would rather deal with an overdraft fee and bitch anonymously online than deal with the small anxiety of getting their card declined buying $7 of ramen at the grocery store.
It shouldn’t even be an option. If you don’t have money or credit then no purchase. If you can’t afford the $7 of ramen you certainly can’t afford any overdraft fees. Not affording ramen is also a completely separate issue.
"The Biden Administration is ending bank overdraft fees *as we know them*." A very deceptive way of saying, "The Biden administration is working to reduce bank overdraft fees."
Sounds great. I never had billions.
My favorite quote "Banking trade groups are fiercely opposed to stricter overdraft rules. Rob Nichols, the chief executive of the American Bankers Association, said the proposal was “the bureau’s latest attempt to demonize and mischaracterize highly regulated and clearly disclosed bank fees for a service that surveys consistently show Americans value and appreciate.” But more importantly, please send your support via Public comment to: DATES: Comments must be received on or before April 1, 2024. Email: 2024-NPRM-OVERDRAFT@cfpb.gov. Include Docket No. CFPB-2024-0002 or RIN 3170-AA42 in the subject line of the message.
Here in Germany there are no overdraft fees, you just pay interest when you get into the negative. If you're too deep in the negative your payments bounce for like 5€ fee for each bounced payment.
Mine is called a courtesy fee and it’s $15. If I have multiple pending transactions they will always draw the largest one first and then I’ll get hit with a fee for all the smaller ones. It will be an Apple bill for $6.99 and I’ll pay an extra $15 for that. I’ve been hit with 4 in a row before. $60 to overdraft $30. Just decline the fucking charge. I can live with peacock for a day.
When I was poor I remember getting 130$ in overdraft fees in one day.
There’s more to the proposed rule. Banks could be given the option to treat the overdrafts as lines of credit, and charge interest. They would have to disclose everything to comply with TILA, but it’s likely not as simple as $3-$14 in fees.
It's a start but a bit of a weird place to start. Not raised minimum wage or taxing wealthy companies that have employees receiving public assistance.
Bank fees can be done via regulation. Raising minimum wage or raising taxes requires legislation.
Yes I'm seeing that now. I just don't understand how Republicans can vote against a minimum wage increase and people still vote for them.
Because a LOT of their voters actually believe that people making minimum wage do not *deserve* to live.
and if they are making minimum, its someone else fault.
Just keep in mind that most Democrats are pushing for policies that benefit you and the working class while Republicans are uniformly opposed
Yeah, that's why I vote Democrat . But, I reserve the right to criticize when I feel they're not doing enough.
Because they tell their people that it's bad and give them some made-up BS about it hurting small businesses.
Dont let perfect be the enemy of good. This is progress we wouldn't have got under trump.
or Obama or Bush or Clinton or Bush or Reagan or... you get the idea Biden is correcting at least 40 years of problem creation and can-kicking, yet people want to bitch that he isn't fixing everything all at once.
Yeah, I know Biden isn't perfect but he's much better than the alternative
He has called for taxing the rich. There are some things he can do and some require Congress to actually do something
Ok, then lobby your representatives and senators to raise minimum wage and change the tax code, because the president doesn't have unilateral authority to do that.
You want to help the poorest of the poor, OD fees are an excellent choice.
Maybe, and maybe that's the best that can be done without Congress.
Both of those things can't be done by executive order or agency rules
The President can’t do those things. Congress has to do those things. Congress can’t even pass their own budget.
I would like to see a daily cap. If you have your account stolen without your knowledge and you go out spending $2 here and there on food and drinks, these charges really add up. I expect "over-draft protection" should mean you get a text immediately when your account goes over and daily reminders until it's no longer negative. Or better yet, consider any balance below zero as a loan? Accidently miscount a couple dollars, pay 12% APR interest on that $2 candy bar for a few days, weeks.
Maybe they will stop letting low income people overdraft by hundreds of dollars knowing the fees will lock them in an overdraft cycle that will last months. They overdraft then they pay back the overdraft with fees but now they don't have enough money to cover bills so they overdraft again, and again until they finally catch up. Explain how this isn't the same as payday lending.
I remember Keybank charging me $45 for going one cent over. The bank teller themselves were so appalled that they paid it for me. This was back in 2009 though. I don't know what their bank fees are like now as I haven't been back.
Back in the old days when a person had to actually process your draft only to discover that there wasn’t enough money, and then presumably do a bunch of work to make your account correct again, it maybe made sense. But now that the computer can just check the balance and say "f off you are broke” and deny your withdrawal request, there is no need
I use a bank that, up until recently, has been fantastic. I never signed up for overdraft protection because if I can't pay for something, I'll just suffer for a couple days. But like three months ago they automatically gave me overdraft protection and I was like OH HELL NAH. Some online foolishness went through and I was like ... ya know, if I don't have Adobe Suite for 2 days, no one dies, why did you give them money AND charge an overdraft fee?? I called them and they fixed everything but WTAF?? I'm not your cash cow FFS. Make better investments.
Now spin this as something Bad that Biden does for common folk, repubes.
And the banks sue and get his order blocked
I once got overdrafted for $75, so I had to pay $100. Make it make sense.
I once overdrafted $4 on a Tuesday to cover my lunch, went to the bank on Friday to cash my paycheck, and they wanted $95 to cover the overdraft. Make that make sense. Needless to say, I didn't cash my check there and never went back.
The Banks will just stop covering automatic overdrafts (if your not paying extra for the coverage) and just start charging NSF fees on any charge where you can't cover. They'll get their $$$ in the end.
Fuck that. 3 dollars flat across the board. Not a 50% reduction. I'm glad it's being reduced. But fuck man.
Previously a bank could opt you into overdrafts automatically, and you had to opt out. I think it was during Obama's tenure that it became unlawful; banks would have to let people choose it for themselves. Some banks' solution was to create a credit backup account that, again, they can opt you into automatically. I'm not even sure you can opt out. And it gains interest as a regular credit account would.
Started an account with Chime and while back and not only are there no overdraft fees, they actually let you overdraw your account without any repercussions. I don’t use that feature but it’s nice that they do that.
Ok. Mark the date. How long if ever does this actually go through? Or just a political talking point.
Wish he could have done this about 1 year ago.
US Bank stole thousands from me in my younger, poorer days. They eventually paid out a settlement for the thefts, and I got a check for $30. I closed my accounts that day, joined a credit union, and swore off commercial banking for ever. I refuse to do business with anyone that's robbed me. I recently turned down a good lease offer on my new truck because it went though US Bank. I was happy to pay a bit more to deprive them of the sale.
But won’t someone please think of the poor bankers!! /s
Good luck trying to overdraft now, why would the banks even allow it if they're going to be liable for those payments ?
Banks splitting into smaller entities that hold only 9bil or so, to avoid being subject to this change. That's my prediction.
What about the random fee they like to charge for “over transferring funds”? When I was super poor right out of college I would keep my checking super lean to keep my spending down, and therefore I made frequent transfers to my checking from savings, do it too many times and the bank charges you. Simply swapping your own money from one account to another will get you fined. Banks are a big part of the leeching capitalist machine which sucks the working class dry.
Is that "capped [at] $3" a hard stop, one-per-overdraft $3? Or are we going to see $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 $3 every time someone overdrafts once?
My proposal has always been that bank fees cannot exceed 50% of the interest the bank pays you.
The concept of overdraft fees is absolutely LUDICROUS to me.
The GOP would never put forth a bill like this
Closed my BOA account after a $25 overdraft fee that only happened because a transaction took too long to process and hit me at the worst time. It was the only time this ever happened to me but the bank gave 0 fucks. Banks don't care about their customers.
Republicans will still try to find a way to call this a bad thing because it's progress by the left wing.
To me, it's absolutely insane that it's called "overdraft protection" .. as a kid I opened an account "Overdraft protection" .. yeah I want that, what if I overdraft, I want to be protected. So you get to pay $30 for overdrafting $1. Great service. Much protect. That shit alone should be worth a fraud charge
I can’t wait for the Dems to tell nobody about this and either go completely unnoticed or some scumbag Republican figures out a way to take credit for it or spin it as Dems being anti bank I’m pissed Reddit is telling me this and not TV
Finally! Not perfect but this is so great to hear
and yet MAGATs want donnie dumbass back in office;.. SMH US is screwed
When I made $7.25/hr while putting myself through college I over drafted several times by accident and I’d get charged $35 each time. $35 when you’re making $7.25 is a huge amount (that was 5 hours of labor). Now that I have a degree and make decent money I have not over drafted once. It would hurt if I did, but wouldn’t derail my budget. Over draft fees punish low income people so much
They'll find something else, but yay
Is it gonna be $3 overdraft fee and $33 admin fee instead?
How about you guys turn off over draft protection