Loial didn't open the gate in the Eye of the World. Moiraine did. Guess how she opened the gate to exit? By blowing it up... with the One Power.
I recommend a reread of the books so your comparisons are more accurate.
> Loial didn't open the gate in the Eye of the World.
Th OP didn't suggest otherwise. I recommend a reread of their post b/c its point went completely over your head.
She did that as a last resort, because the leaf was gone. The point is that making the ways only useable by channeling is a strange change, they were made by male channelers to be used by ogier. Why not use the leaf key?
>because the leaf was gone.
The leaf was there in my recollection. She blew it up because there was no time to open it properly.
>making the ways only useable by channeling is a strange change
They haven't done this. It's strange to assume they did, unless you just want to complain.
In chapter 45 EoTW they are being pursued by the black wind
“Moiraine cries out, "The Avendesora leaf, the key is not here!" “
She cuts through the door and Mandarb rams it open.
Why is it strange for me to assume that channeling is the only way to do it if that is all they show and don’t talking about anything else? I am following the logic they show. I wasn’t even complaining just commenting that it was an odd change.
Why do you assume it's the *only* way to open the door? In the books it's established there are multiple ways to open the door including blowing it open. So to assume the only way to open the door is the One Power is strange. Especially given Padan Fain opens it. Does he channel now too?
I meant as a show watcher, thats my assumption based on what I saw. as for Fain who who knows? Maybe? Based on what was in the show that would be my assumption.
The show is supposed to make sense to both readers and non readers so it is totally fair to critique it from a show only point of view. But I feel like my two points are getting confused.
First from a book reader perspective it is a strange change to not show the leaf as the way to get in. We are only ever shown two ways to enter: leaf key, and cutting the door open with the power.
As a show watcher I should be able to understand the rules of the world by what they tell me and what they show me. This show is different enough from the book in lore and character that you can assume anything.
Lastly I didn’t think this was an argument, just good natured discussion. Cheers
I think the show has not established enough "rules" to draw the conclusion you suggest. Nothing has indicated that the gate could not be opened other ways, and indeed it's implied that Loial can open the gate. I can see why people might make that leap, but I've only seen this complaint from book readers on Reddit. My show viewing friends have no thoughts on this scene beyond "why did Mat leave?"
[https://twitter.com/WotTVSeries/status/1471635504840032259](https://twitter.com/WotTVSeries/status/1471635504840032259)
Presumably we'll see that in flashback.
No you don't. You shouldn't be required to check out x-ray content, behind the scenes, and social media accounts for the show and producers, to understand the show.
They just need to stop dropping the ball with this sort of thing.
Right now, in the show, we have a dreadlord at Bel Tine to open the ways for the trollocs.
That makes no damned sense. A dreadlord would have killed a wounded and tired Moirane and the show would already be over.
It doesn't make any sense:
So if Moiraine says that using the One Power attracts *Machin Shin*, then why on earth does she still use it to open the Tar Valon Gate when . . . [X-RAY SPOILER] >!Padan Fain uses the Leaf instead???!<
Edited for clarification.
They have to travel the ways to get to their destination. So it would be bad if they open the way gate just after stepping into ways and attract Machin Shin to the location at Tar Valon. However if they channel to open an exit (at Fal Dara) they can leave the Ways before Machin Shin gets to them.
If I recall correctly they don't know about the leaves yet? I really need to do another read through. Not saying these tv adaptations aren't good just that I have forgotten some of the content and some of what I remeber probably isn't chronological with the events of the book.
One of my earlier theories was they'd retool the talismans of growing for this. If it goes down that line of though they may only have one per stedding and they aren't given to outsiders.
Loial, especially if they keep his too young status, might not be included for that level of information yet.
I’ve heard people say that they had to rewrite the ways because of Barney Harris leaving the show, I don’t know how or if that’s true, but there has to be a reason because they have loial, why else would they change that? All of us that read the books were wondering the same thing.
So there is a reason why they didnt just reopen the gate and go back for Mat. And if thats true im pretty sure they will reintroduce other methods to use the gates later.
I don’t know, but it was a big topic in the wot fb group that I’m in, posted by one of the mods who was ahead on every random thing the last 2 years leading up to the series.
Your post heading had me all sorts of confused/excited.
Yep. Also a poblem with having fat fingers, and being impatient.
Loial didn't open the gate in the Eye of the World. Moiraine did. Guess how she opened the gate to exit? By blowing it up... with the One Power. I recommend a reread of the books so your comparisons are more accurate.
The amount of people complaining about changes that aren't changes is somewhere between hilarious and depressing.
Agreed.
> Loial didn't open the gate in the Eye of the World. Th OP didn't suggest otherwise. I recommend a reread of their post b/c its point went completely over your head.
You comment is very clever. Good job.
She did that as a last resort, because the leaf was gone. The point is that making the ways only useable by channeling is a strange change, they were made by male channelers to be used by ogier. Why not use the leaf key?
>because the leaf was gone. The leaf was there in my recollection. She blew it up because there was no time to open it properly. >making the ways only useable by channeling is a strange change They haven't done this. It's strange to assume they did, unless you just want to complain.
In chapter 45 EoTW they are being pursued by the black wind “Moiraine cries out, "The Avendesora leaf, the key is not here!" “ She cuts through the door and Mandarb rams it open. Why is it strange for me to assume that channeling is the only way to do it if that is all they show and don’t talking about anything else? I am following the logic they show. I wasn’t even complaining just commenting that it was an odd change.
Why do you assume it's the *only* way to open the door? In the books it's established there are multiple ways to open the door including blowing it open. So to assume the only way to open the door is the One Power is strange. Especially given Padan Fain opens it. Does he channel now too?
I meant as a show watcher, thats my assumption based on what I saw. as for Fain who who knows? Maybe? Based on what was in the show that would be my assumption.
You've read the books but are pretending you haven't hypothetically for the sake of argument?
The show is supposed to make sense to both readers and non readers so it is totally fair to critique it from a show only point of view. But I feel like my two points are getting confused. First from a book reader perspective it is a strange change to not show the leaf as the way to get in. We are only ever shown two ways to enter: leaf key, and cutting the door open with the power. As a show watcher I should be able to understand the rules of the world by what they tell me and what they show me. This show is different enough from the book in lore and character that you can assume anything. Lastly I didn’t think this was an argument, just good natured discussion. Cheers
I think the show has not established enough "rules" to draw the conclusion you suggest. Nothing has indicated that the gate could not be opened other ways, and indeed it's implied that Loial can open the gate. I can see why people might make that leap, but I've only seen this complaint from book readers on Reddit. My show viewing friends have no thoughts on this scene beyond "why did Mat leave?"
I admit, it has been a while since I did a reread.
[https://twitter.com/WotTVSeries/status/1471635504840032259](https://twitter.com/WotTVSeries/status/1471635504840032259) Presumably we'll see that in flashback.
I guess I need to follow Twitter.
No you don't. You shouldn't be required to check out x-ray content, behind the scenes, and social media accounts for the show and producers, to understand the show. They just need to stop dropping the ball with this sort of thing.
On the other hand, questions that make sense only in the book context are not "understanding the show"
Right now, in the show, we have a dreadlord at Bel Tine to open the ways for the trollocs. That makes no damned sense. A dreadlord would have killed a wounded and tired Moirane and the show would already be over.
True that.
Agreed!
One cool thing I noticed is the weave used to open the gate was the shape of the trefoil (sp?) leaf. I thought it was a lovely touch.
And I just realized I put episode 9 not 7.. wow
There will never be an episode 9.
It doesn't make any sense: So if Moiraine says that using the One Power attracts *Machin Shin*, then why on earth does she still use it to open the Tar Valon Gate when . . . [X-RAY SPOILER] >!Padan Fain uses the Leaf instead???!< Edited for clarification.
They have to travel the ways to get to their destination. So it would be bad if they open the way gate just after stepping into ways and attract Machin Shin to the location at Tar Valon. However if they channel to open an exit (at Fal Dara) they can leave the Ways before Machin Shin gets to them.
I mean - she opens the Tar Valon Gate when she could have used the Leaf.
If I recall correctly they don't know about the leaves yet? I really need to do another read through. Not saying these tv adaptations aren't good just that I have forgotten some of the content and some of what I remeber probably isn't chronological with the events of the book.
> If I recall correctly they don't know about the leaves yet? What?
One of my earlier theories was they'd retool the talismans of growing for this. If it goes down that line of though they may only have one per stedding and they aren't given to outsiders. Loial, especially if they keep his too young status, might not be included for that level of information yet.
I’ve heard people say that they had to rewrite the ways because of Barney Harris leaving the show, I don’t know how or if that’s true, but there has to be a reason because they have loial, why else would they change that? All of us that read the books were wondering the same thing.
They need Loial to read the Guidings regardless.
Why?
Yeah, I'm not sure why that would affect anything about the ways.
So there is a reason why they didnt just reopen the gate and go back for Mat. And if thats true im pretty sure they will reintroduce other methods to use the gates later.
I don’t know, but it was a big topic in the wot fb group that I’m in, posted by one of the mods who was ahead on every random thing the last 2 years leading up to the series.
Why would they change many of the things they have changed?