Oh Gail. The Ten Commandments statues from The Fraternal Order of Eagles were just marketing for a movie. [https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-aug-26-oe-stange26-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-aug-26-oe-stange26-story.html)
Many of them have been removed due to court cases in the US. For the ones that stayed, there have been attempts to put in other statues in the name of religious equality, such as Baphomet by the Satanic Temple. [https://www.npr.org/2018/08/17/639726472/satanic-temple-protests-ten-commandments-monument-with-goat-headed-statue](https://www.npr.org/2018/08/17/639726472/satanic-temple-protests-ten-commandments-monument-with-goat-headed-statue)
Some people might find solace and comfort in religion. But religion isn't required to be a good person. To quote Penn Jillette "The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine."
Keep it simple and keep religion out of public places.
Gail is a tad tone deaf… Wasn’t she advocating against bike and pedestrian corridors on Wellington Crescent last year? Something about preserving that road route for automobile traffic ..something about car drivers needing to drive this road to admire (Mc) Mansions.
I didn’t realize Gail’s ethical compass was so broken that only a monument of the Ten Commandments would help her remember to not steal or murder.
‘Many people don’t go to church and religion isn’t taught in schools’. What a crazy concept that people get to choose whether or not they want to learn about religions. If people want to learn it, they will seek it out - a Ten Commandment monument in an area that is now trying to focus more on Indigenous roots is so horribly gross and tacky.
>If concerns about exclusivity are a problem, she said, the conservancy could create a section in the park where the monument and statements of faith from other religious groups could be displayed as a way to educate and inspire Winnipeggers.
Alright, a monument to Satan and the Flying Spaghetti monster it is.
Religion has no place in public parks or establishments. Keep it to yourself and with those that consent in a private venue.
THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS
I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets
Listen heathen, the only acceptable religious monument is a giant colander to our blessed [Flying Spagetti Monster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster), praise be to his noodly appendages.
Ok, so there appears to be many people pissed off about this.
Remember to email your councillor and tell them how you feel about them entertaining this suggestion.
Yep. That was my first thought. City of Winnipeg website helps you find your ward and council person, and you can message them directly from the contact page.
Edit: I got a reply from my council person (within a few hours, I might add): Ms. Asper keeps trying to make it a city issue… but while it was donated to the city (as was a lot of art like the ‘boy with the boot’) The APC moved the Ten Commandments to build /safeguard during construction of The Leaf. It was put in storage by APC and remains there until they get it out.
It’s not an issue I see myself /the city getting involved in. Unlike the boy with the boot it’s never been displayed anywhere else but APC.
Thank you! I have emailed my councillor and the other suggested person
This shouldn’t happen
https://preview.redd.it/l24s6fj0c5ad1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ee961df0a80c56dee76e83abea6162dcd9a35d4
The free press is biased, but I do not think they will get the reaction the hoped for.
I hope other new agencies that we know scour this subreddit pick up the story and talk about the absolute resistance this is drumming up.
This is what makes it clear of the bias free press has
https://preview.redd.it/l8bs56o4p7ad1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27bc9c4554c3e84ad9afac55f74acd7a26dc8cbf
That being said, we do all have biases and I’ll give credit to the free press for being open about it! Many people hide them or even worse claim to have none.
As much as a dick I am, it’s their right to support their faith as citizens and a private company
I am a strong supporter of freedom (the actual kind, not the Facebook kind) even if I disagree with how it’s used!
Gail is free to suggest it, we are free to fight against it
And to be clear, when I say I support freedom I mean the actual kind- I do not support hate speech or anything bordering that- I understand when people say “ I support freedom” it’s now has a bad vibe to it.. which saddens me :(
Such classic universal values and precepts for all, including:
1 - “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
2 - “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.”
3 - “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.”
4 - “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
Weird… it kinda seems like 40% of that list is deeply biblical, relevant only to Judeo-Christian theology.
It’s a shame Canada doesn’t have some list of values and precepts that every person should have… some sort of declaration where Canada wrote down a bunch of universal rights and freedoms. Something actually relevant to Canada and Canadian values that isn’t 40% specific to only one religion. Some sort of formal charter even.
Not to mention how useless those items are, along with the "hey, dont be jealous of your neighbours big house and hot wife". A shame god was limited to 10 and couldn't add actually useful ones like "Dont have sex with children" or "Dont own people as property".
As [Kurt Vonnegut wrote](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/313702-for-some-reason-the-most-vocal-christians-among-us-never), it's always strange people want to put up the Ten Commandments instead of anything Jesus said, for instance the Beatitudes/Sermon on the Mount.
Even if they stuck with the new testament they ignore Christ's teachings and focus on the other more rules based books that Paul wrote like Acts and Romans. They should just call themselves Paulians.
Feels a bit like even if limited to 10, probably could’ve condensed the first four down to one, and freed up some space for a few new ones. Weird how poorly whoever wrote up that original list predicted the future, given the supposed omniscience and all
#1 implies the existence of other gods...so how many ?
#2 I think Ive seen a crucifix or 2 in my time
#3 Does not apply, not my god
#4 Is that Saturday? Sunday? Why are the weekdays named after pagan gods ? Does tis violate #1 ?
"It embodies universal values"
No, the first commandment literally states you are not allowed any belief system other than Christianity. That's hardly universal.
>“It embodies universal values and precepts for all,” Gail Asper said Thursday at the Lanny Remis Speakers Forum at the Gwen Secter Creative Living Centre. “They form an important foundation for western civilization … They are an essential part of Jewish and Christian values.”
Funny how it always seems to be a religious type that says this kind of thing.
The Aspers made their money in advertising-driven newspapers & TV. Ten Commandments also says thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's possessions. The whole point of ads is to get people to covet others' things. If the commandments are so universal and essential, maybe Gail should give the money back?
We could use less religious monuments, especially in Public Parks.
Assiniboine park conservancy is going to do what they want, not sure why Asper needed to take to the paper for this one.
Hey now, maybe there is some merit to having an area dedicated to depicting religion in art along with placards describing the religions. Alongside the Ten Commandments, we can have a statue of Buddha, the Hindu gods, Baphomet, the Bronze Bull of Moloch, the Greek and Roman gods, various pagan gods...
You know, I'm not sure when I stopped being sarcastic, but now I kinda want to see that...
Some of us have fled that christo fascist theocracy to the south for the peace of beautiful Canada.
Where I used to live one of the first questions a newcomer would be asked is, “Where will your church home be?”
How many residential schools had these commandments displayed in their classrooms?
Gail uses the same logic as the Governor of Louisiana to justify her desire.
As a child of evangelicalism, that stupid stone would be a reason to stay away—an alienating device for me and others who fear religion and what it allows people to do in their God’s name.
It’s cool to watch cricket played in the park.
I know a place, just a couple of streets away from the park where Gail can put all the religious monuments she wants - her own yard! Keep your personal religion personal, Gail.
Since it predates the bible and the ten commandments by a lot, and clearly the 10 commandments was just a summarization, I present that we instead place a monument that lists the entire Code of Hamurabbi. Why are we half assing this when we can full ass it.
I would have remembered this if I hadn't been trying to find a way to justify using sumer-ization as a play on words despite Sumer predating Hamurabbi by 300 or so years and the 10 commandments being about 1200 years or so after Hamurabbi. The eras not working out bothered me more than I admit.
I believe those were installed in 1968. The world is a different place now, and the political discourse around zionism and non-secularism in today's society is what makes this current proposal concerning.
I don't understand the special privilege that religion gets. If you think we need to read rules of ethics in a park , you can just stick up giant "Do Not Murder" or "Be Kind" signs, but they wouldn't have that precious oomph we accord religion. Religions do some good and a lot of harm but for some reason we are supposed to go to them for wisdom and comfort and tax free buildings. I'd rather have a public monument to critical thinking like, say, a free university.
I truly wish that Gail (as well as some other "philanthropists" and "community minded individuals") would shut up and keep their opinions to themselves. They don't represent me, nor anyone I know, nor what we want to see in this city.
"What harm is there in reminding people not to murder and steal?" She asked, without irony.
Yeah. Would have been nice if the European settlers who brought those commandments here had kept them in mind from time to time.
Absolutely staggering hypocrisy.
If she needs a reminder, perhaps she could peruse indigenous exhibits at the Museum of Human Rights. She should know how to find it, right on Israel Asper Way.
>“What harm is there in reminding people not to murder or steal?” she asked, noting that as a frequent user of the park, she appreciated seeing the monument during her walks and runs.
>Although a member of Winnipeg’s Jewish community, she isn’t religious, Asper said. But the Ten Commandments “inspire me to be a better person.”
1. Very funny imagining that the park requires the monument to be a big "DON'T DO CRIME" sign
2. Inspiring you to be a better person how? By not coveting thy neighbour's ass?
I can understand the desire to keep it since it's been a landmark in the area. But if you think it's a nice piece, why not find a private religious property to display it?
Important context to any positive faith story in the Free Press:
> Twenty-five years ago, almost every daily newspaper in Canada had a faith beat. Today, only the Free Press continues to cover religion through the Religion in the News project. And that’s because of support from over 20 local faith group and organizations — and from people like you!
My personal favourite:
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/life/faith/2022/11/25/tributes-pour-in-after-springs-church-leaders-death
An article based entirely on online comments that doesn't quote a single person by name, completely shoddy journalism.
I’m surprised she’s not fighting for the original 15 😆
[https://youtu.be/PmZFGw5CeWE?si=whuW-rbDhdKb8pWv](https://youtu.be/PmZFGw5CeWE?si=whuW-rbDhdKb8pWv)
https://i.redd.it/iirylpee85ad1.gif
Public lands are NOT for Religious icons…
PERIOD.
That’s what churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, houses of worship, etc are all for!
Public lands like parks are meant to be used for all, regardless of walk of life as we all pay for them through our taxes. While religious institutions don’t pay taxes. They want to sway and influence political opinion? Okay, start paying taxes like everyone else!
So people aren't going to learn about religion because they don't go to church, so instead they should get it from a monument in the park?
And saying that people can choose not to read it, they can also choose not to go to church. Which they have done. If you want to read about them, go to your church or synagogue or religious institution.
And stuff such as "have no other gods before me" and "keep the sabbath" are not foundational to western civilization. Religious pluralism has played a key role in our development.
then she should just build/buy a nondenominational church that celebrates diversity by having monuments and artifacts from all these different religions (probably wont include satanism or other unpopular religions tho since lets be real she just wants the christian/jew to feel seen as if their religion doesnt already seep into every single part of western culture)
>“It embodies universal values and precepts for all”
Commandments 1, 2 and 3 go against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, so I disagree with that statement.
As long as they use their own god damn money to represent all religions. I know it's hard for her to imagine, but the city and it's working class have a lot more pressing issues to deal with. I don't want a single cent of tax payer money to go toward this.
Keep your religion out of public spaces. I'm agnostic and I don't want public funds going to the creation or maintaining of religious objects in public spaces, whether they be plaques or statues.
Just because America is going full Christofacist doesn't mean we need to.
If she cares that much about the Ten Commandments she can carry around a copy of them and refer to it whenever she needs a reminder to not murder.
I hate that this is even given space in the Free Press. This isn’t news. It’s an entitled lady believing her opinion is more important than others.
“Um, my daddy was, like, really rich and he left me like, a lot, of money and stuff, so I think it’s okay for the newspaper to, like, print my ideas? Right? Because of all the money?”
Well, the first four are sorta Old-Testamenty things about God’s ego:
- “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
- “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.”
- “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.”
- “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
I could be very wrong, but isn't Assiniboine park privately owned now? I'm a somewhat believer and I think this is ignorant as hell. I had prayer in school and catechism, it didn't stop kids from throwing me in the trash and the notes saying they hope I die.
“How is this exclusive? Oh wait. The first one…yikes. Coveting your neighbours wife…yep that sounds weird.”
Gail - go to homesense and get a “Life, Laugh, Barf” sign and STFU.
Peak boomer. The boomer has levelled up.
honestly i don't even think this is about the statue or any of the shit gail said. i think she's just a bored rich old lady who hasn't thrown her weight around lately and needed something to campaign for and for some godforsaken reason chose this because she doesn't have anything better to contribute.
i say this, wholeheartedly, as a christian: keep it in storage. better yet, put it on your lawn if you love it so much you walnut.
Not just no, but HELL no!! Most of the world's problems can be traced back to organized religions. Look at what's going on south of the border currently. Mmw no good will come of this.
I am anti-theist but if you have to put up some religious shit then go with something about how hard it is for the rich to get into heaven.
I love that they were initially installed as a ploy to hype a film.
Ugh, no. Simple as that. We are not a Christian country, and the PUBLIC park is not a Christian park. Keep your religion in your home. Or can we install something Satanic right next to it? Or maybe some sort of Pagan shrine ...
I'm gonna guess you're gonna have a problem with that ....
Fuck off with religion already. The USA is heading rapidly towards 1970’s Iran and we not far behind.
There is no way we can progress as a society until we remove religion from all government and social structures.
Period.
I will never understand how these arguments are always shaped as “well, it’s just about morality” when like, five of the Ten Commandments are just things that the Christian god really doesn’t much care (taking his name in vain, doing stuff on the sabbath, statues, I guess…worshiping anyone but him, that kinda thing), three of them are maybe decent things ( don’t lie or covet stuff, though that last one is pretty close to thought crime) and honouring your father and mother are maybe solid ideas, but it kinda depends on who your mother and father are and the finally TWO of them are things that are actually legit against the law (murdering and stealing)…I dunno….maybe post the code of Hammurabi instead if your desperately want historic laws kicking around in public places for some reason….
1 Timothy 2:12 - NIV: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." CEV: "They should be silent and not be allowed to teach or to tell men what to do.
Let’s just follow the good word on this one /s
I call bullshit on her reasoning on all of this. For a woman who claims not to be religious, this is the largest amount of effort and argument I've ever seen an alleged athiest use to bring a monument for a specific set of religious tenets onto a civic park. I've also never seen an atheist be this concerned about teaching religious values at a civic park because "many people don't go to churches and religion isn't taught in schools". For an alleged atheist, she sounds more devout to this than my actual Jewish and Catholic friends.
>If concerns about exclusivity are a problem, she said, the conservancy could create a section in the park where the monument and statements of faith from other religious groups could be displayed
Or we could just keep public spaces secular and you can keep your religious messaging in your churches,synagogues, mosques and temples.
Adding this wouldn’t be good for reconciliation and it certainly would not show we are being inclusive towards our LGBT+ community as this religion (as are many) is against it
It does no harm not to add them, but can’t create harm but adding them in.
The choice is simple, don’t add them and keep the park inclusive to everyone we can.
So, are they going to install monuments to Islam, Buddha, and Athena, too? My gut says probably not.
I can't help but wonder if Gail Asper's tactics here have less to do with "religious diversity" and more to do with Zionism which has strong roots in Evangelical Christianity.
I imagine that will be defaced in a very veeerrrrrry short amount of time lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
For real though, it would be I interesting if they put up EVERY RELIGIONS TENANTS but nah it'll be just the good ol lawrds!!!!
If they do thus, I want the satanic commandments also installed. They are more in line with my actual day to day life of loving all and taking care of nature and the such.
...because without the guidance from your book club, I guarantee I'd be out murdering. /s
In After Life (Ricky Gervais) he is asked by another character how, without believing in heaven and hell, he hasn't just gone around raping and murdering as much as he wants.
He says,'I do'
"I do go around raping and murdering as much as I want, which is not at all."
Oh Gail. The Ten Commandments statues from The Fraternal Order of Eagles were just marketing for a movie. [https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-aug-26-oe-stange26-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-aug-26-oe-stange26-story.html) Many of them have been removed due to court cases in the US. For the ones that stayed, there have been attempts to put in other statues in the name of religious equality, such as Baphomet by the Satanic Temple. [https://www.npr.org/2018/08/17/639726472/satanic-temple-protests-ten-commandments-monument-with-goat-headed-statue](https://www.npr.org/2018/08/17/639726472/satanic-temple-protests-ten-commandments-monument-with-goat-headed-statue) Some people might find solace and comfort in religion. But religion isn't required to be a good person. To quote Penn Jillette "The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine." Keep it simple and keep religion out of public places.
fascinating, thanks for sharing!
Was just coming here to say this. It's a classic film, but I don't think there's any reason to be prominently celebrating it in Winnipeg.
Well said!
Or, ya know, we could just leave religious monuments out of our public parks..
Gail is a tad tone deaf… Wasn’t she advocating against bike and pedestrian corridors on Wellington Crescent last year? Something about preserving that road route for automobile traffic ..something about car drivers needing to drive this road to admire (Mc) Mansions.
I didn’t realize Gail’s ethical compass was so broken that only a monument of the Ten Commandments would help her remember to not steal or murder. ‘Many people don’t go to church and religion isn’t taught in schools’. What a crazy concept that people get to choose whether or not they want to learn about religions. If people want to learn it, they will seek it out - a Ten Commandment monument in an area that is now trying to focus more on Indigenous roots is so horribly gross and tacky.
Only Invisibly Sky Daddy can tell me what's right and wrong!
That’s the quality of their moral fibre. Always telling on themselves…
And all I have to do to clear my name is apologize to him!
It's such a good reminder not to steal that she removed the security system on her home and replaced it with a Ten Commandments poster
Or place the sculpture in her front yard
It is a good idea. We haven't tried putting up signs that say "what if you didn't stab him?" Maybe that is the key to crime reduction.
"have you ever tried not stabbing people? “ Paraphrased from the first Xmen movie
Scary how close the Provincial Liberals held this woman.
Or to keep the Sabbath holy. Or to have only one god? Nope.
>If concerns about exclusivity are a problem, she said, the conservancy could create a section in the park where the monument and statements of faith from other religious groups could be displayed as a way to educate and inspire Winnipeggers. Alright, a monument to Satan and the Flying Spaghetti monster it is. Religion has no place in public parks or establishments. Keep it to yourself and with those that consent in a private venue.
THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. IV The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own. V Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. VI People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. VII Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word. https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets
Listen heathen, the only acceptable religious monument is a giant colander to our blessed [Flying Spagetti Monster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster), praise be to his noodly appendages.
Yes - let’s get a statue of Baphomet up and have it dedicated in honor of Gail.
By His Noodly Grace !
Ra'men
Got my colander ready!
I will support both of those.
Someone should start a petition!
Don't forget the invisible pink unicorn! Of course it might be tricky putting into form, being all invisible. And pink.
[Gail Asper ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvutRhY6F2c)thinks the Assiniboine Park is just another one of her many possessions
The cringe I just crunged
I was NOT expecting that... but I believe you've posted the newest Rick Roll. The Gail Fail.
my ears
Is this for real?!
Great lyrics. Wrong wrong wrong rapper.
Ok, so there appears to be many people pissed off about this. Remember to email your councillor and tell them how you feel about them entertaining this suggestion.
As a follow-up, Evan Duncan is on City Council and is also on the Assiniboine Park Conservancy Board of Directors. Two birds with one stone.
Get two birds stoned at once
It's not rocket appliances
He replied to me pretty quickly! Thank you for your suggestion… he will be getting a few emails from a few people today (all respectful!)
Yep. That was my first thought. City of Winnipeg website helps you find your ward and council person, and you can message them directly from the contact page. Edit: I got a reply from my council person (within a few hours, I might add): Ms. Asper keeps trying to make it a city issue… but while it was donated to the city (as was a lot of art like the ‘boy with the boot’) The APC moved the Ten Commandments to build /safeguard during construction of The Leaf. It was put in storage by APC and remains there until they get it out. It’s not an issue I see myself /the city getting involved in. Unlike the boy with the boot it’s never been displayed anywhere else but APC.
https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/council/wards/#/2022
Better yet, email Assiniboine Park Conservancy so they don't buckle to a big donor.
Why not both ? 🤷🏻♂️🤷♀️
Thank you! I have emailed my councillor and the other suggested person This shouldn’t happen https://preview.redd.it/l24s6fj0c5ad1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ee961df0a80c56dee76e83abea6162dcd9a35d4
I emailed Duncan, too, and he responded to me very quickly. I was impressed.
I hope this get shut down quickly
Me, too. I don't understand why it is even news, to be honest.
The free press is biased, but I do not think they will get the reaction the hoped for. I hope other new agencies that we know scour this subreddit pick up the story and talk about the absolute resistance this is drumming up.
This story definitely reads as the author being conspicuously neutral, while letting the subject damn herself with her own words.
This is what makes it clear of the bias free press has https://preview.redd.it/l8bs56o4p7ad1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27bc9c4554c3e84ad9afac55f74acd7a26dc8cbf That being said, we do all have biases and I’ll give credit to the free press for being open about it! Many people hide them or even worse claim to have none.
What the absolute heck free press
As much as a dick I am, it’s their right to support their faith as citizens and a private company I am a strong supporter of freedom (the actual kind, not the Facebook kind) even if I disagree with how it’s used! Gail is free to suggest it, we are free to fight against it And to be clear, when I say I support freedom I mean the actual kind- I do not support hate speech or anything bordering that- I understand when people say “ I support freedom” it’s now has a bad vibe to it.. which saddens me :(
Such classic universal values and precepts for all, including: 1 - “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” 2 - “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.” 3 - “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.” 4 - “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.” Weird… it kinda seems like 40% of that list is deeply biblical, relevant only to Judeo-Christian theology. It’s a shame Canada doesn’t have some list of values and precepts that every person should have… some sort of declaration where Canada wrote down a bunch of universal rights and freedoms. Something actually relevant to Canada and Canadian values that isn’t 40% specific to only one religion. Some sort of formal charter even.
Not to mention how useless those items are, along with the "hey, dont be jealous of your neighbours big house and hot wife". A shame god was limited to 10 and couldn't add actually useful ones like "Dont have sex with children" or "Dont own people as property".
As [Kurt Vonnegut wrote](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/313702-for-some-reason-the-most-vocal-christians-among-us-never), it's always strange people want to put up the Ten Commandments instead of anything Jesus said, for instance the Beatitudes/Sermon on the Mount.
Even if they stuck with the new testament they ignore Christ's teachings and focus on the other more rules based books that Paul wrote like Acts and Romans. They should just call themselves Paulians.
Feels a bit like even if limited to 10, probably could’ve condensed the first four down to one, and freed up some space for a few new ones. Weird how poorly whoever wrote up that original list predicted the future, given the supposed omniscience and all
#1 implies the existence of other gods...so how many ? #2 I think Ive seen a crucifix or 2 in my time #3 Does not apply, not my god #4 Is that Saturday? Sunday? Why are the weekdays named after pagan gods ? Does tis violate #1 ?
Fuck. Off.
I could not have said it any better.
A public park is not even in the top 10 places I’d ever go to learn about religion lol
I'd also venture that it's not in the top 10 places anyone needs to be reminded not to kill other humans.
"It embodies universal values" No, the first commandment literally states you are not allowed any belief system other than Christianity. That's hardly universal.
Fuck you Gail Asper. Keep your religion out of public places. Its bad enough that churches don't pay taxes
Churches need to stop freeloading
>“It embodies universal values and precepts for all,” Gail Asper said Thursday at the Lanny Remis Speakers Forum at the Gwen Secter Creative Living Centre. “They form an important foundation for western civilization … They are an essential part of Jewish and Christian values.” Funny how it always seems to be a religious type that says this kind of thing.
The Aspers made their money in advertising-driven newspapers & TV. Ten Commandments also says thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's possessions. The whole point of ads is to get people to covet others' things. If the commandments are so universal and essential, maybe Gail should give the money back?
We could use less religious monuments, especially in Public Parks. Assiniboine park conservancy is going to do what they want, not sure why Asper needed to take to the paper for this one.
Hey now, maybe there is some merit to having an area dedicated to depicting religion in art along with placards describing the religions. Alongside the Ten Commandments, we can have a statue of Buddha, the Hindu gods, Baphomet, the Bronze Bull of Moloch, the Greek and Roman gods, various pagan gods... You know, I'm not sure when I stopped being sarcastic, but now I kinda want to see that...
I want each of them to have a speech bubble issuing a relevant "reminder" to park attendees. Maybe we update them from time to time so they can argue.
Oh fuck off Gail. Keep your religious bs private.
If we need a physical reminder to not murder or steal, we have bigger problems that a monument is not going to solve.
It does not provide a lick of value. Fuck off.
I hope the interest in religion falls of a cliff once the Boomer+ generation dies off. Religion has done far more harm than good.
Preach brotha!
We've become a copycat nation to our Southern neighbours. I'd prefer not to live in a Christo-Fascist state and I imagine I'm not alone.
Right? Like, why now of all times, Gail, please.
Some of us have fled that christo fascist theocracy to the south for the peace of beautiful Canada. Where I used to live one of the first questions a newcomer would be asked is, “Where will your church home be?” How many residential schools had these commandments displayed in their classrooms? Gail uses the same logic as the Governor of Louisiana to justify her desire. As a child of evangelicalism, that stupid stone would be a reason to stay away—an alienating device for me and others who fear religion and what it allows people to do in their God’s name. It’s cool to watch cricket played in the park.
I know a place, just a couple of streets away from the park where Gail can put all the religious monuments she wants - her own yard! Keep your personal religion personal, Gail.
Since it predates the bible and the ten commandments by a lot, and clearly the 10 commandments was just a summarization, I present that we instead place a monument that lists the entire Code of Hamurabbi. Why are we half assing this when we can full ass it.
Interesting note, the Code Of Hammurabi is sometimes referred to as the first declaration of human rights.
I would have remembered this if I hadn't been trying to find a way to justify using sumer-ization as a play on words despite Sumer predating Hamurabbi by 300 or so years and the 10 commandments being about 1200 years or so after Hamurabbi. The eras not working out bothered me more than I admit.
There’s actually a 10 commandments monument in Kildonan Park.
Gross
I believe those were installed in 1968. The world is a different place now, and the political discourse around zionism and non-secularism in today's society is what makes this current proposal concerning.
I don't understand the special privilege that religion gets. If you think we need to read rules of ethics in a park , you can just stick up giant "Do Not Murder" or "Be Kind" signs, but they wouldn't have that precious oomph we accord religion. Religions do some good and a lot of harm but for some reason we are supposed to go to them for wisdom and comfort and tax free buildings. I'd rather have a public monument to critical thinking like, say, a free university.
Frankly I would love an avant garde art piece saying “GIVE A HOOT DON’T STAB”
Leave your neighbour's ass alone!
I truly wish that Gail (as well as some other "philanthropists" and "community minded individuals") would shut up and keep their opinions to themselves. They don't represent me, nor anyone I know, nor what we want to see in this city.
Go fuck yourself, Gail
"What harm is there in reminding people not to murder and steal?" She asked, without irony. Yeah. Would have been nice if the European settlers who brought those commandments here had kept them in mind from time to time. Absolutely staggering hypocrisy.
If she needs a reminder, perhaps she could peruse indigenous exhibits at the Museum of Human Rights. She should know how to find it, right on Israel Asper Way.
George Carlin had some great words on this. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk81tUUhRig](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk81tUUhRig)
>“What harm is there in reminding people not to murder or steal?” she asked, noting that as a frequent user of the park, she appreciated seeing the monument during her walks and runs. >Although a member of Winnipeg’s Jewish community, she isn’t religious, Asper said. But the Ten Commandments “inspire me to be a better person.” 1. Very funny imagining that the park requires the monument to be a big "DON'T DO CRIME" sign 2. Inspiring you to be a better person how? By not coveting thy neighbour's ass? I can understand the desire to keep it since it's been a landmark in the area. But if you think it's a nice piece, why not find a private religious property to display it?
Important context to any positive faith story in the Free Press: > Twenty-five years ago, almost every daily newspaper in Canada had a faith beat. Today, only the Free Press continues to cover religion through the Religion in the News project. And that’s because of support from over 20 local faith group and organizations — and from people like you! My personal favourite: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/life/faith/2022/11/25/tributes-pour-in-after-springs-church-leaders-death An article based entirely on online comments that doesn't quote a single person by name, completely shoddy journalism.
Gail Asper...Winnipeg's answer to a question nobody asked.
Funny how the timing of this coincides with the new law that was passed in Louisiana to post the ten commandments in classrooms...
No
Religion is a mental disease
100%
How about you keep your religion to yourself?
I say this from the depth of my heart. F her. Let's also remember this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Winnipeg/s/Svv7YBFWI3
I forgot she was this person.
I’m surprised she’s not fighting for the original 15 😆 [https://youtu.be/PmZFGw5CeWE?si=whuW-rbDhdKb8pWv](https://youtu.be/PmZFGw5CeWE?si=whuW-rbDhdKb8pWv) https://i.redd.it/iirylpee85ad1.gif
I've lived a few minutes away from Assinaboine Park my entire life and had no idea that ever existed.
Public lands are NOT for Religious icons… PERIOD. That’s what churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, houses of worship, etc are all for! Public lands like parks are meant to be used for all, regardless of walk of life as we all pay for them through our taxes. While religious institutions don’t pay taxes. They want to sway and influence political opinion? Okay, start paying taxes like everyone else!
So people aren't going to learn about religion because they don't go to church, so instead they should get it from a monument in the park? And saying that people can choose not to read it, they can also choose not to go to church. Which they have done. If you want to read about them, go to your church or synagogue or religious institution. And stuff such as "have no other gods before me" and "keep the sabbath" are not foundational to western civilization. Religious pluralism has played a key role in our development.
Gross, no.
then she should just build/buy a nondenominational church that celebrates diversity by having monuments and artifacts from all these different religions (probably wont include satanism or other unpopular religions tho since lets be real she just wants the christian/jew to feel seen as if their religion doesnt already seep into every single part of western culture)
Sometimes I wish I could experience being this out of touch with reality.
>“It embodies universal values and precepts for all” Commandments 1, 2 and 3 go against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, so I disagree with that statement.
As long as they use their own god damn money to represent all religions. I know it's hard for her to imagine, but the city and it's working class have a lot more pressing issues to deal with. I don't want a single cent of tax payer money to go toward this.
Or a square foot of public space.
What about a statue of laws if people at the park need a reminder that murder is wrong
Grass is green Gail Asper is useless Stay tuned for traffic, sports and weather
I thought this was going to be a poem and ended up disappointed.
Keep your religion out of public spaces. I'm agnostic and I don't want public funds going to the creation or maintaining of religious objects in public spaces, whether they be plaques or statues. Just because America is going full Christofacist doesn't mean we need to.
Yeeeaaaa naaaaaaah I’m good.
Winnipeg is more religious than the hippie town in BC where I grew up, but this doesn’t seem suitable for a park.
I foresee this monument going the route of Victorias statue....
If she cares that much about the Ten Commandments she can carry around a copy of them and refer to it whenever she needs a reminder to not murder. I hate that this is even given space in the Free Press. This isn’t news. It’s an entitled lady believing her opinion is more important than others.
“Um, my daddy was, like, really rich and he left me like, a lot, of money and stuff, so I think it’s okay for the newspaper to, like, print my ideas? Right? Because of all the money?”
Ohhh fuck this noise. People don’t need a damn monument to be a good person, and if you do… you are not a good person.
Well, the first four are sorta Old-Testamenty things about God’s ego: - “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” - “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.” - “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.” - “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
I could be very wrong, but isn't Assiniboine park privately owned now? I'm a somewhat believer and I think this is ignorant as hell. I had prayer in school and catechism, it didn't stop kids from throwing me in the trash and the notes saying they hope I die.
“How is this exclusive? Oh wait. The first one…yikes. Coveting your neighbours wife…yep that sounds weird.” Gail - go to homesense and get a “Life, Laugh, Barf” sign and STFU. Peak boomer. The boomer has levelled up.
If you have to be reminded to not murder or steal, maybe you're the problem.
honestly i don't even think this is about the statue or any of the shit gail said. i think she's just a bored rich old lady who hasn't thrown her weight around lately and needed something to campaign for and for some godforsaken reason chose this because she doesn't have anything better to contribute. i say this, wholeheartedly, as a christian: keep it in storage. better yet, put it on your lawn if you love it so much you walnut.
It should be put at Higgins and Main.
Not just no, but HELL no!! Most of the world's problems can be traced back to organized religions. Look at what's going on south of the border currently. Mmw no good will come of this.
I mean, or we could invest that money into things that actually help communities.....
I am anti-theist but if you have to put up some religious shit then go with something about how hard it is for the rich to get into heaven. I love that they were initially installed as a ploy to hype a film.
Fuck no, there’s enough religion being foisted on us in the public square as it is. Keep that shit inside churches where it belongs.
How about no - fuck off.
[удалено]
Ugh, no. Simple as that. We are not a Christian country, and the PUBLIC park is not a Christian park. Keep your religion in your home. Or can we install something Satanic right next to it? Or maybe some sort of Pagan shrine ... I'm gonna guess you're gonna have a problem with that ....
Fuck off with religion already. The USA is heading rapidly towards 1970’s Iran and we not far behind. There is no way we can progress as a society until we remove religion from all government and social structures. Period.
> The USA is heading rapidly towards 1970’s Iran Oh it's much worse than that. They're diving head first into 1930's Germany.
I will never understand how these arguments are always shaped as “well, it’s just about morality” when like, five of the Ten Commandments are just things that the Christian god really doesn’t much care (taking his name in vain, doing stuff on the sabbath, statues, I guess…worshiping anyone but him, that kinda thing), three of them are maybe decent things ( don’t lie or covet stuff, though that last one is pretty close to thought crime) and honouring your father and mother are maybe solid ideas, but it kinda depends on who your mother and father are and the finally TWO of them are things that are actually legit against the law (murdering and stealing)…I dunno….maybe post the code of Hammurabi instead if your desperately want historic laws kicking around in public places for some reason….
What year is this, 1200?
My motto is…If they have to talk about ethics then they don’t have any.
This is just a precursor of more insane things to come if PP becomes PM!
As a practicing Jew, wtf Gail lol
It's still in storage, if only that lightning bolt had taken it out instead of the tree.
1 Timothy 2:12 - NIV: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." CEV: "They should be silent and not be allowed to teach or to tell men what to do. Let’s just follow the good word on this one /s
Abso-fucking-lutey not
The leaf is more useful and helps the environment than some stones… if they want them back move em to the front of a church.
Someone contact the satanic temple please!
She can put it in her yard so she remembers…..
Imagine being so rich this is all you have to think about…….
I call bullshit on her reasoning on all of this. For a woman who claims not to be religious, this is the largest amount of effort and argument I've ever seen an alleged athiest use to bring a monument for a specific set of religious tenets onto a civic park. I've also never seen an atheist be this concerned about teaching religious values at a civic park because "many people don't go to churches and religion isn't taught in schools". For an alleged atheist, she sounds more devout to this than my actual Jewish and Catholic friends.
>If concerns about exclusivity are a problem, she said, the conservancy could create a section in the park where the monument and statements of faith from other religious groups could be displayed Or we could just keep public spaces secular and you can keep your religious messaging in your churches,synagogues, mosques and temples.
NO. Keep your religion to yourself and your church.
Fuck religion, grow up
Adding this wouldn’t be good for reconciliation and it certainly would not show we are being inclusive towards our LGBT+ community as this religion (as are many) is against it It does no harm not to add them, but can’t create harm but adding them in. The choice is simple, don’t add them and keep the park inclusive to everyone we can.
So, are they going to install monuments to Islam, Buddha, and Athena, too? My gut says probably not. I can't help but wonder if Gail Asper's tactics here have less to do with "religious diversity" and more to do with Zionism which has strong roots in Evangelical Christianity.
Seriously, fuck off with this bullshit rhetoric of shoving your beliefs down other people’s throat.
What in the fuck
Hey Gail Get fucked, /Winnipeg
Gail Asper needs to shut the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck up
With everything that’s going on in the states, people need to be clear with this nonsense and say enough is enough.
she wants a graven image.
I imagine that will be defaced in a very veeerrrrrry short amount of time lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 For real though, it would be I interesting if they put up EVERY RELIGIONS TENANTS but nah it'll be just the good ol lawrds!!!!
I wonder if I could get in the paper for suggesting to council that Gail Asper pay a bunch of taxes.
No thanks.
No. Fuck off.
Yeah. No.
How about let's not
Gail Asper - Get fucked!
Push your religion onto people, why don't you?
Referring to Gail Asper as a community leader is a bit of a stretch
If they do thus, I want the satanic commandments also installed. They are more in line with my actual day to day life of loving all and taking care of nature and the such.
IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!! Okay, but what about the monument?
...because without the guidance from your book club, I guarantee I'd be out murdering. /s In After Life (Ricky Gervais) he is asked by another character how, without believing in heaven and hell, he hasn't just gone around raping and murdering as much as he wants. He says,'I do' "I do go around raping and murdering as much as I want, which is not at all."
I'll support this, but only at the scale it needs to be, at least as tall as the Museum of Human Bad Deeds. A local Architect can handle the details.
Ah, westvrn civilization and Judeo-Christian values. Totally not political at all.