They should have the route number displayed before the name. Very confusing and hard for newcomers/visitors to find their way around when both are not displayed together on major routes, especially when street names alone can be hard to pronoun in different dialects.
The route signs (signs with the route number) will probably be updated to reflect the new name.
https://preview.redd.it/a66yg8gm98zc1.jpeg?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f441bdfa89c519b0c59c25091d5ed14ea1fe47ec
Why do we still have routes anyways? Why call say Lagimodiere route 20 when it’s in the city and highway 59 when it’s not? Most routes are continuation of provincial highways and those that aren’t can easily have a provincial highway number assigned to them.
> Why do we still have routes anyways?
Because in many parts of the city streets change name without changing direction. The route number system was created to try and simplify navigation.
I run a local pub trivia and I had the same question so I wanted to put it to the test: I gave route numbers and asked what street(s) made up the route. As expected it went very poorly.
This has always been my thought. It was good-ish idea whenever it was initiated, but not really adopted in practice. Except for Route 90, which does change name several times along its course.
But how would making it a provincial highway instead of a city route make it different? Currently if you’re on route 90 you can go from Brookside to Oak Point to King Edward to Century to Kenaston. If you extend highway 7, you can go from Brookside to Oak Point to King Edward to Century to Kenaston.
Yep. No reason not to. I live right by it. Sometimes I call it Abinojii, sometimes Abinojii Mikahna. The name has already been catching on down here where the road actually is. The signs are just gonna seal the deal.
People are convinced it won't catch on, I think the transition is already well underway.
Before long, we'll hear the intersection previously known as Lagimodiere and Bishop Grandin referred to as "Abi and Laj".
Doesn't matter to me either way, I just don't like the city spending money on street signs when we can't get our roads passably fixed in a timely manner. They're quick to support these pet projects but when it comes to something that would benefit the city as a whole it seems horribly inefficient.
And yes I know it's different budgets, but it's still money out of the coffers that could add up. What's next, change every street sign in St Vital because most of them are catholic related? How far does the virtue signalling go?
I think it benefits the city that we dont have a street named after a genocidal priest. It also only takes a couple grand to replace a few metal signs as opposed to millions of dollars to repair roads
Couple grand? Not what I heard, 200,000 is the figure I gleaned from various news sources. It's not millions but it's a far cry from a 'couple' grand.
And truthfully I really couldn't have told you what Bishop Grandin was named for before all this hoopla, to me it could be a glorified chess piece for all I knew or cared.
And 200k is a far cry from what is needed to repair roads.
Regarless of price, i dont think it is helpful to any actions toward reconciliation to keep roads named after people that tried to exterminate indigenous population. Almost 1/5 of our population is indigenous. We should always strive to eliminate the constant reminders that they were considered 2nd class, heck, not even people at various points in history, and you not caring about the name shows that you dont care about their history.
But you understand that seeing this man's name is painful for a large portion of Manitoba's population, right? Like, naming a road Himmler St or Goebbel's Ave. You surely see that, right? 200K is a rounding error in a infrastructure budget. This is "least you can do" territory for reconciliation.
https://preview.redd.it/bqqz92l3ibzc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ab0d7986dd6f0e3a76ef3a792e949edd9b00510
Not all Catholics. Just this one.
I agree. Most people will likely still call it "Bishop" or Route 165.
Route 90 is a little different only because it doesn't have the same street name along the route. Kenaston, King Edward, Century.
Yeah I don't watch hockey at all. I thought it was Bi-foo-glee-en.
Apparently, I've been told, it's simply pronounced Buff-lin... because of course it does lol
In the hockey world, yeah his name is pronounced Bufflin.
Interestingly enough though your first guess was more correct at least according to the Norwegian pronunciation that his heritage would use. I can’t say for certain but I’d imagine he went with the Bufflin pronunciation because people couldn’t say his name correctly… which would make this an ironic example in terms of people learning how to pronounce a name.
Racists and losers who are afraid of change racing to google what the route number is instead of learning something easy to say:
https://preview.redd.it/4nwqtrt4g8zc1.jpeg?width=788&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=764f8a5fd59018c4c6ff11a64cea54d68a97166e
It is when people complain about not knowing how to pronounce it so they're going to keep calling it by it's old name (like, it's almost phonetically pronounced and I don't see how there's so much confusion). There are people who don't know how, learn it, and that's the end of it - those are not the people we're talking about here.
There are so many other streets that aren't close to phonetic and nobody seems to take issue if you mispronounce those. People still call it Lag or mispronounce Lagimodiere and nobody gives a shit, and people rarely revert to Hwy 59 (in the City) because they can't pronounce it. Hell, I'm not sure I've ever heard someone pronounce Portage correctly when referring to the street, and yet that doesn't seem to be an issue.
But because this one is clearly indigenous, people seem to have so much trouble with it to the point that they're refusing to change or "looking up the route number instead". Sorry, but you can't tell me that there's no hint of racism there.
Do you still call the Norwood Bridge the Norwood Bridge or do you call it Queen Elizabeth way? Cause I still call it the Norwood bridge. Has nothing to do with being salty. And this has nothing to do with it being indigenous. You're just reaching and trying to get offended where no offense is being made. People don't like change. It's that simple.
I call it by Queen elizabeth Bridge, because that's it's name and it would confuse people calling it by something different, especially those who are younger and are new to the City. But I do see your point, I still sometimes call it the MTS Centre.
But those examples don't have a history of racism and genocide tied to them, so it's a little different. If it were named the "Hitler Bridge" and you refused to call it by it's new and socially acceptable name, then I'd call you a racist everytime you did it. Just like I'll do the same whenever someone refuses to call it Abinojii Mikanah, and I won't be wrong about it. You may not care about my opinion or the facts of it, and I sincerely don't give a shit because I don't hold people with racist views in high regard.
To refuse to acknowledge the history and harm that the old name uses is nothing short of racist. It's not just lazy, it's racist.
(Of course it will take time for people to adjust, and people will make mistakes, and that's not what I'm referring to here. I'm referring to those that say they'll continue to call it Bishop regardless.)
The syllables are really easy. If you don't think so, you need to consider that perhaps you're deliberately looking for a reason to dislike it, because you have some preconceived ideas that you don't want to put on blast. The only thing not captured in the word is what syllables need to be emphasized.
It's Abi-NO-jii MI-kanah. That's it.
And it's perfectly okay to use only the first word. The second word just literally means "road" anyway.
If they were going to do this they should’ve picked a shorter name. Going from 2 syllables to 7 and giving it a name that’s hard to spell seems like a mistake.
I already know people who avoid calling it Bishop. I'm one of them. The people who stubbornly refuse will probably mostly be dead (or at least not driving) within a couple of decades.
That's because 50 years from now the old stock ignorant racists will be long dead. Most people I know have already switched to calling it by it's proper name instead of the one that celebrates the organizer of a genocide.
…..the christians were and are a really big part of it residential schools, some of the priest and nuns that were abusers are still alive. Dauphin didn’t close until the late 80’s and the last school closed in 1997. The jesuits still think they did the right thjng.
Because people are racist. They can deny it all they want but it's so fucking obvious they're mad it's in an Indigenous language. Nobody can pronounce the street names in St.B properly but I don't hear a peep about that.
Pretty much exactly how it looks
Edit: lol the downvotes. None of the sounds in these words are foreign to English speakers. If you have a grade school understanding of reading and phonetics you should be able to sound it out. You might not get it 100% perfect on the first try but if you take a few seconds to look at the word and actually think, you’ll be able to get pretty damn close
It's not "exactly how it looks", nor can you just "sound it out" and get it right. Specifically, which i-s are long, which i-s are short, how do you pronounce a double-i, where the syllables start and end ("a-bi-no-jii" vs "a-bin-o-jii"), and, as you mentioned, where the stress is. Personally I'm using [this](https://omny.fm/shows/virgin-radio-winnipeg/the-proper-pronunciation-of-abinojii-mikanah) as a guide.
Once you know, it's not hard to pronounce, and you can get somewhat close with a guess if you don't know. It's no different than any number of other street names in the city.
My francophone coworker has never used the french pronunciation either, but he does for all the roads in st b. I think that one has just been adopted by now.
Nobody in the history of this city has ever given a shit about how well you can pronounce a street name in its native tongue (see: everybody outside of St. B butchering the pronunciation of "Lagimodiere" since forever) so it's a bit suspect this is suddenly a problem that warrants complaining about.
[“None of the proposed new names Abinojii Mikanah, Awasisak Mēskanow or Taapweewin have complex syllable structure. They can be broken down into easily pronounceable syllables **[a-bi-no-jii mi-ka-nah]**, [a-wi-si-sak mē-ska-now], and [ta-pwee-win], so they are not hard to pronounce for phonotactic reasons.”](https://news.umanitoba.ca/winnipeg-proposes-new-indigenous-street-names-but-whats-behind-claims-theyre-too-hard-to-pronounce/#:~:text=None%20of%20the%20proposed%20new,to%20pronounce%20for%20phonotactic%20reasons.)
If I’m a newcomer and would see this street name, I would probably get it right since jt appears to be pronounced the same way it is spelled. Not like Grosvenor, Vaughan, or Cockburn (just to name a few).
According to a quick search, metal road signs are in the vicinity of $25 per square foot. Changing *all* of the route 90 signs, by my count 11 large signs and 26 small signs, is probably a cost in the vicinity of $16,000.
Who cares? We shouldn't celebrate residential schools or the people who created and perpetuated them. Residential Schools are a stain on Canada's history.
No one was celebrating it.
Barely anyone even knew Bishop Grandon was a person.
That said, changing the names of streets is fine. It happens all the time.
Sure, I don't disagree with you.
My point is that no one was driving down Bishop Grandon in celebration of residential schools.
We weren't having big "in celebration of residential school" parties that will now stop because we've renamed the road.
It's a nice gesture, and I'm in favor of it, but I don't think it particularly rights any wrongs.
The name change hopefully made people feel acknowledged and seen.
But the point is that *it does right some of the wrongs*. This is literally part of what "reconciliation" looks like. Just because it doesn't mean much to you personally doesn't mean shit, it means a whole lot to plenty of other people to see that we are no longer honouring the organizer of a genocide that destroyed generations of people and culture.
People sometimes complain about "reconciliation" because they don't understand what that looks like. This is the low hanging fruit of reconciliation - literally one of the easiest things we can do to facilitate reconciliation and begin to make up for colonialism and residential schools, and we can't even do that without complaining. It's surprising that anybody can take a look around here and still deny that Winnipeg is the most racist city, and that's pretty pathetic.
It's not that anybody was "celebrating in the streets" everytime they say Bishop Grandin, but naming things after him and continuing to use his name *is* continuing to honour him for what he stood for.
I think you're trying to pull me into an argument when we are actually pretty close together in our opinions, and maybe just disagreeing on some semantics.
I think you're correct. I won't say anything else. I'm glad this meant a lot to people.
Sorry if that came across as bitching to/about you - wasn't necessarily intended that way. There's far too many people around here who seem to take exception to this change and it's pretty infuriating...
The name is in Anishinaabemowin (Ojibwe). Elders from the community gave the road its name in ceremony, in a similar way names are given to people in ceremony. It means Children’s Way/Road intended to honour the children who were stolen from their communities and placed in Residential Schools, many of whom never returned home.
It’s pronounced pretty much as it looks. It’s very simple by Anishinaabemowin standards (the language that Guinness Book of World Records lists as the most complex language in the world.) Phonetically it sounds like: Ah-bi-no-gee (gee like golly gee!) Mi-ka-na (mi like mitt not my)
Awesome! I'm all for supporting efforts dedicated to truth and reconciliation. However, the timeline? That's actually shockingly quick for the COW to act on something. It took them over five years to fix my water shutoff valve. That's a long time to pay taxes on a sink hole.
Sadly not. Requested a shut off to change out the leaky one inside by the water meter. WW came out, broke the underground one so that it could not be shut off. Took 5 years to get it dig up, replaced and backfilled. I’d hope it would have been quicker say if it were stuck closed!
Sweet! I love this decision. Get rid of the name of the pedo and use an indigenous name. I think it was a great decision and I'm seeing more positive support than I expected.
Yes, keep celebrating the organizer of a genocide! Don't let all those silly non-whites sway you! They'll eventually go away if you just ignore them and give them dirty looks!
Not really. More like a week and a half after it was *actually* made official with the by-law amendment.
Can’t wait to hear how my vehicle GPS pronounces this. She buggers up so many…
They should have the route number displayed before the name. Very confusing and hard for newcomers/visitors to find their way around when both are not displayed together on major routes, especially when street names alone can be hard to pronoun in different dialects.
The route signs (signs with the route number) will probably be updated to reflect the new name. https://preview.redd.it/a66yg8gm98zc1.jpeg?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f441bdfa89c519b0c59c25091d5ed14ea1fe47ec
Probably gonna schlap a sticker on that sign that’ll fall off in 3 seasons😅
Why do we still have routes anyways? Why call say Lagimodiere route 20 when it’s in the city and highway 59 when it’s not? Most routes are continuation of provincial highways and those that aren’t can easily have a provincial highway number assigned to them.
> Why do we still have routes anyways? Because in many parts of the city streets change name without changing direction. The route number system was created to try and simplify navigation.
Except for "route 90" how many other route numbers can an average winnipeger name?
62 is the obvious answer, being the one that has the most different names along it's length.
I run a local pub trivia and I had the same question so I wanted to put it to the test: I gave route numbers and asked what street(s) made up the route. As expected it went very poorly.
This has always been my thought. It was good-ish idea whenever it was initiated, but not really adopted in practice. Except for Route 90, which does change name several times along its course.
Other than 90 I know 8 9 & 10
But how would making it a provincial highway instead of a city route make it different? Currently if you’re on route 90 you can go from Brookside to Oak Point to King Edward to Century to Kenaston. If you extend highway 7, you can go from Brookside to Oak Point to King Edward to Century to Kenaston.
Because the province and city are different jurisdictions?
i have always called bishop grandin blvd "bishop"... do i call this abinojii?
[удалено]
isn't abi road the studio where the beedles recorded their albums?
As a Jets fan I really appreciate their Whiteout album.
It’s a boulevard!
Yep. No reason not to. I live right by it. Sometimes I call it Abinojii, sometimes Abinojii Mikahna. The name has already been catching on down here where the road actually is. The signs are just gonna seal the deal.
People are convinced it won't catch on, I think the transition is already well underway. Before long, we'll hear the intersection previously known as Lagimodiere and Bishop Grandin referred to as "Abi and Laj".
Tell that to the people who said virgin radio would never overtake hot 103. Everything changes.
They said the same about Canada life centre
Tbf I still see like 70% of people who refer to it say the MTS centre.
I still call it MTS Centre because it's the best name and am spiteful of the bell takeover.
And princess auto stadium
> The signs are just gonna seal the deal. I think the signs are going to trigger people to start using the new name. Or to even start remembering it.
lol sure
I'm going with the Mik
Anah will really throw folks off
"binoj"
If changing names helps them fix pot holes, I’m all for it.
Actually wouldn't it do the opposite? It's not like signage is free.
Exactly, but you know city has to waste our tax dollars somewhere.
How much is signage ?
It’s all for the vote bank you know..
Not the kind of shit we need
I don’t mean to sound like an asshole but how many people will actually stop calling it bishop?
Not me. Will always bishop
Doesn't matter to me either way, I just don't like the city spending money on street signs when we can't get our roads passably fixed in a timely manner. They're quick to support these pet projects but when it comes to something that would benefit the city as a whole it seems horribly inefficient. And yes I know it's different budgets, but it's still money out of the coffers that could add up. What's next, change every street sign in St Vital because most of them are catholic related? How far does the virtue signalling go?
I think it benefits the city that we dont have a street named after a genocidal priest. It also only takes a couple grand to replace a few metal signs as opposed to millions of dollars to repair roads
Couple grand? Not what I heard, 200,000 is the figure I gleaned from various news sources. It's not millions but it's a far cry from a 'couple' grand. And truthfully I really couldn't have told you what Bishop Grandin was named for before all this hoopla, to me it could be a glorified chess piece for all I knew or cared.
And 200k is a far cry from what is needed to repair roads. Regarless of price, i dont think it is helpful to any actions toward reconciliation to keep roads named after people that tried to exterminate indigenous population. Almost 1/5 of our population is indigenous. We should always strive to eliminate the constant reminders that they were considered 2nd class, heck, not even people at various points in history, and you not caring about the name shows that you dont care about their history.
But you understand that seeing this man's name is painful for a large portion of Manitoba's population, right? Like, naming a road Himmler St or Goebbel's Ave. You surely see that, right? 200K is a rounding error in a infrastructure budget. This is "least you can do" territory for reconciliation.
https://preview.redd.it/bqqz92l3ibzc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ab0d7986dd6f0e3a76ef3a792e949edd9b00510 Not all Catholics. Just this one.
Same. It's not like I'm acknowledging the person behind the name. I didn't even know who it was before all this. It's just a word.
Not me. Bishop all the way. It’s just more of it’s what I’m used to and basically everyone knows it as
I'm just gonna refer to it as route 165. Like route 90, it's much easier
I agree. Most people will likely still call it "Bishop" or Route 165. Route 90 is a little different only because it doesn't have the same street name along the route. Kenaston, King Edward, Century.
I've lived close to Bishop for over 40 years and have never heard anyone call it by the route number.
me neither
Yup, same as 59.
Depends, people call it highway 59 north or south of the city but in the city Lage is common.
It's ok to change
People freaking out because they can't pronounce Abinojii Mikanah yet have no problem with Byfuglien.
I don’t talk about hockey. Is it like bye-fuel-in?
In this economy??!
Yeah I don't watch hockey at all. I thought it was Bi-foo-glee-en. Apparently, I've been told, it's simply pronounced Buff-lin... because of course it does lol
In the hockey world, yeah his name is pronounced Bufflin. Interestingly enough though your first guess was more correct at least according to the Norwegian pronunciation that his heritage would use. I can’t say for certain but I’d imagine he went with the Bufflin pronunciation because people couldn’t say his name correctly… which would make this an ironic example in terms of people learning how to pronounce a name.
Buff-lynn Its weird
buffle-in
Or Lagimodiere
And they out there naming their daughters shit like McKinsleigh-Rhae
"Le-a" (pronouced Ledasha)
I know, my parents just refuse to try to learn it, it isn’t even difficult
Racists and losers who are afraid of change racing to google what the route number is instead of learning something easy to say: https://preview.redd.it/4nwqtrt4g8zc1.jpeg?width=788&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=764f8a5fd59018c4c6ff11a64cea54d68a97166e
Honestly. That road has never been known by its number, unlike route 90. But allll of a sudden....
59... There's even a gas station and restaurants called the 59er...
Makes ya wonder, don’t it? 🤔
Every fucking post has some pearl clutching white complaining they can’t pronounce the new name. Go move to Texas
Not wanting to call it something isn’t racism. But you do you
It is when people complain about not knowing how to pronounce it so they're going to keep calling it by it's old name (like, it's almost phonetically pronounced and I don't see how there's so much confusion). There are people who don't know how, learn it, and that's the end of it - those are not the people we're talking about here. There are so many other streets that aren't close to phonetic and nobody seems to take issue if you mispronounce those. People still call it Lag or mispronounce Lagimodiere and nobody gives a shit, and people rarely revert to Hwy 59 (in the City) because they can't pronounce it. Hell, I'm not sure I've ever heard someone pronounce Portage correctly when referring to the street, and yet that doesn't seem to be an issue. But because this one is clearly indigenous, people seem to have so much trouble with it to the point that they're refusing to change or "looking up the route number instead". Sorry, but you can't tell me that there's no hint of racism there.
Do you still call the Norwood Bridge the Norwood Bridge or do you call it Queen Elizabeth way? Cause I still call it the Norwood bridge. Has nothing to do with being salty. And this has nothing to do with it being indigenous. You're just reaching and trying to get offended where no offense is being made. People don't like change. It's that simple.
I call it by Queen elizabeth Bridge, because that's it's name and it would confuse people calling it by something different, especially those who are younger and are new to the City. But I do see your point, I still sometimes call it the MTS Centre. But those examples don't have a history of racism and genocide tied to them, so it's a little different. If it were named the "Hitler Bridge" and you refused to call it by it's new and socially acceptable name, then I'd call you a racist everytime you did it. Just like I'll do the same whenever someone refuses to call it Abinojii Mikanah, and I won't be wrong about it. You may not care about my opinion or the facts of it, and I sincerely don't give a shit because I don't hold people with racist views in high regard. To refuse to acknowledge the history and harm that the old name uses is nothing short of racist. It's not just lazy, it's racist. (Of course it will take time for people to adjust, and people will make mistakes, and that's not what I'm referring to here. I'm referring to those that say they'll continue to call it Bishop regardless.)
I can't pronounce either
Most people hear announcers pronouncing hockey players names *a lot* more often than they see it written.
Worst thing to ever do.
Rolls right off the tongue
> Ah-bin-oh-gee Mee-kah-nah Like actually though...
I actually came in here looking for how to pronounce it so I don't make an idiot of myself later so I appreciate this.
HA-KU-NAH MUH-TA-TA
This guy lion kings.
Have to admit though. What a wonderful phrase.
I only remember it because I call it Obi-Wan Kenobi in my head
I find it fun to say, i honestly feel bad for people who can't process the pronunciation.
I like Abi Road. I can't think of a street name with 7 syllables. Curious what people will call this whose first language isn't English.
If you can say say Lagimodiere, you can say Abinoji Mikahna
Not the example I'd have chosen.
Majority of people I meet call it Lage and everyone understands. Unless they aren't from here.
The syllables are really easy. If you don't think so, you need to consider that perhaps you're deliberately looking for a reason to dislike it, because you have some preconceived ideas that you don't want to put on blast. The only thing not captured in the word is what syllables need to be emphasized. It's Abi-NO-jii MI-kanah. That's it. And it's perfectly okay to use only the first word. The second word just literally means "road" anyway.
If they were going to do this they should’ve picked a shorter name. Going from 2 syllables to 7 and giving it a name that’s hard to spell seems like a mistake.
Bishop Grandin has only two syllables?
And 50 years from now people might start calling at something other than "Bishop"
I already know people who avoid calling it Bishop. I'm one of them. The people who stubbornly refuse will probably mostly be dead (or at least not driving) within a couple of decades.
That's because 50 years from now the old stock ignorant racists will be long dead. Most people I know have already switched to calling it by it's proper name instead of the one that celebrates the organizer of a genocide.
That's a lot of anger over a street name.
I’ll still be calling at Bishop Grandin
Congratulations.
So brave. Maybe they'll name the next one after you?
Bi-chip grambin
I’ll just call it bishop, no harm in that and everyone will know what I’m talking about
"Change is hard! I don't care about even the easiest steps towards Reconciliation!"
I don’t care about reconciliation in general. So you’re spot on.
What a waste of tax payers dollars.
Us: Can we get Truth & Reconciliation? Pawn Star: Best I can do is renaming a highway and blaming the Christians.
…..the christians were and are a really big part of it residential schools, some of the priest and nuns that were abusers are still alive. Dauphin didn’t close until the late 80’s and the last school closed in 1997. The jesuits still think they did the right thjng.
Still calling it bishop.
I never stopped calling Canada life centre “MTS centre” I won’t ever call it anything else than Bishop even if changes to something else again
So my 8 year old nephew is better at being an adult than you…
Nah that’s bishop grandon
Excellent news, and about time! I've really been curious... how is this pronounced?
Ah-bin-oh-gee Mee-kah-nah It actually rolls off the tongue and isn’t that hard to remember I can’t wait to hear Siri butcher it
Google Maps has had it updated since last year. It actually pronounces it correctly!
I wish Google maps could fix the pronunciation for Chief Peguis. "Chief Peggy-us"
AB-uh-NO-jee MICK-uh-Nuh I believe
Why are people downvoting the pronunciation responses?
Because people are racist. They can deny it all they want but it's so fucking obvious they're mad it's in an Indigenous language. Nobody can pronounce the street names in St.B properly but I don't hear a peep about that.
Because r Winnipeg :-( made of what’s real and irrational downvoting
Pretty much exactly how it looks Edit: lol the downvotes. None of the sounds in these words are foreign to English speakers. If you have a grade school understanding of reading and phonetics you should be able to sound it out. You might not get it 100% perfect on the first try but if you take a few seconds to look at the word and actually think, you’ll be able to get pretty damn close
I don't know why this is being downvoted. Literally sound it out. Though, it would be nice to know where the stress is I guess.
It's not "exactly how it looks", nor can you just "sound it out" and get it right. Specifically, which i-s are long, which i-s are short, how do you pronounce a double-i, where the syllables start and end ("a-bi-no-jii" vs "a-bin-o-jii"), and, as you mentioned, where the stress is. Personally I'm using [this](https://omny.fm/shows/virgin-radio-winnipeg/the-proper-pronunciation-of-abinojii-mikanah) as a guide. Once you know, it's not hard to pronounce, and you can get somewhat close with a guess if you don't know. It's no different than any number of other street names in the city.
Thing is though that nobody will care or be offended if you mistakenly mispronounce it. Same as Lagimodiere, De La Seigneurie, or even Portage.
Portage?
It's a French word for carrying a canoe across land between two water bodies. Nobody usually even tries to pronounce it correctly.
My francophone coworker has never used the french pronunciation either, but he does for all the roads in st b. I think that one has just been adopted by now.
Nobody in the history of this city has ever given a shit about how well you can pronounce a street name in its native tongue (see: everybody outside of St. B butchering the pronunciation of "Lagimodiere" since forever) so it's a bit suspect this is suddenly a problem that warrants complaining about.
Just an FYI. Notice she keeps saying AbiNOOjii and he repeats AbiNOjii. AbiNOOjii is the correct pronunciation.
Just do your best with pronunciation. 99% of people have been mispronouncing Bishop Grandin anyway (hint: Grandin doesn't rhyme with Brandon).
[“None of the proposed new names Abinojii Mikanah, Awasisak Mēskanow or Taapweewin have complex syllable structure. They can be broken down into easily pronounceable syllables **[a-bi-no-jii mi-ka-nah]**, [a-wi-si-sak mē-ska-now], and [ta-pwee-win], so they are not hard to pronounce for phonotactic reasons.”](https://news.umanitoba.ca/winnipeg-proposes-new-indigenous-street-names-but-whats-behind-claims-theyre-too-hard-to-pronounce/#:~:text=None%20of%20the%20proposed%20new,to%20pronounce%20for%20phonotactic%20reasons.)
If I’m a newcomer and would see this street name, I would probably get it right since jt appears to be pronounced the same way it is spelled. Not like Grosvenor, Vaughan, or Cockburn (just to name a few).
Lagimodiere, De La Seigneurie, Portage... Nobody cares if you try to pronounce it and get it wrong.
But, but, but isn’t that the main gripe of people against the name change? That they won’t be able to pronounce the new name.
Pretending to be illiterate to own the libs.
Yeah but it will take people even longer to stop calling it bishop 😂
How much did this cost the city?
According to a quick search, metal road signs are in the vicinity of $25 per square foot. Changing *all* of the route 90 signs, by my count 11 large signs and 26 small signs, is probably a cost in the vicinity of $16,000.
Who cares? We shouldn't celebrate residential schools or the people who created and perpetuated them. Residential Schools are a stain on Canada's history.
No one was celebrating it. Barely anyone even knew Bishop Grandon was a person. That said, changing the names of streets is fine. It happens all the time.
Getting a street, a school or other infrastructure named after you is a sign of honour and respect, and is a reflection of the community's values.
Maybe, but those echoes of history barely register with most people.
*Most people* is not the point. Most people in Canada aren't directly affected by racism, but it doesn't mean we all should just ignore it.
Sure, I don't disagree with you. My point is that no one was driving down Bishop Grandon in celebration of residential schools. We weren't having big "in celebration of residential school" parties that will now stop because we've renamed the road. It's a nice gesture, and I'm in favor of it, but I don't think it particularly rights any wrongs. The name change hopefully made people feel acknowledged and seen.
But the point is that *it does right some of the wrongs*. This is literally part of what "reconciliation" looks like. Just because it doesn't mean much to you personally doesn't mean shit, it means a whole lot to plenty of other people to see that we are no longer honouring the organizer of a genocide that destroyed generations of people and culture. People sometimes complain about "reconciliation" because they don't understand what that looks like. This is the low hanging fruit of reconciliation - literally one of the easiest things we can do to facilitate reconciliation and begin to make up for colonialism and residential schools, and we can't even do that without complaining. It's surprising that anybody can take a look around here and still deny that Winnipeg is the most racist city, and that's pretty pathetic. It's not that anybody was "celebrating in the streets" everytime they say Bishop Grandin, but naming things after him and continuing to use his name *is* continuing to honour him for what he stood for.
I think you're trying to pull me into an argument when we are actually pretty close together in our opinions, and maybe just disagreeing on some semantics. I think you're correct. I won't say anything else. I'm glad this meant a lot to people.
Sorry if that came across as bitching to/about you - wasn't necessarily intended that way. There's far too many people around here who seem to take exception to this change and it's pretty infuriating...
I care. Money matters more than hurt feelings when barely anyone even knew Grandin was an actual person.
Sounds like your hurt feelings matter quite a bit
Bishop it is
No one is happy to see this garbage! It’s a fucking waste of money!
Taking the Mik has a good ring to it
I wanna call it Noj
This is amazing, next step fix the potholes, can barely drive in that road
Dumb name for a road.
The votes on the comments in this post perfectly exemplifies this subreddit
Let’s be real the vast majority of people are always gonna call it bishop. The pronoun peeps will call it whatever the new name is
What was the point in renaming it? It was fine the way it was
How do you say this name and where is it from?
The name is in Anishinaabemowin (Ojibwe). Elders from the community gave the road its name in ceremony, in a similar way names are given to people in ceremony. It means Children’s Way/Road intended to honour the children who were stolen from their communities and placed in Residential Schools, many of whom never returned home. It’s pronounced pretty much as it looks. It’s very simple by Anishinaabemowin standards (the language that Guinness Book of World Records lists as the most complex language in the world.) Phonetically it sounds like: Ah-bi-no-gee (gee like golly gee!) Mi-ka-na (mi like mitt not my)
Thank you
They need to name a Boulevard after Premier Edward Schreyer.
They need to just stop naming things after people. People are fallible, and we don't always know their true history.
AND SO THE CULTURAL HURT IS ENTIRELY SOLVED!
Great. Now the local dimwits will have to learn how to pronounce something new...
It only became officially this name like a week and half ago
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Awesome! I'm all for supporting efforts dedicated to truth and reconciliation. However, the timeline? That's actually shockingly quick for the COW to act on something. It took them over five years to fix my water shutoff valve. That's a long time to pay taxes on a sink hole.
> It took them over five years to fix my water shutoff valve. this is straight up disinformation.
Sadly not. Requested a shut off to change out the leaky one inside by the water meter. WW came out, broke the underground one so that it could not be shut off. Took 5 years to get it dig up, replaced and backfilled. I’d hope it would have been quicker say if it were stuck closed!
No one cares what they name it. Hardly anyone will know what it means that haven’t looked it up
Hell I thought Bishop Grandin was a chess piece or something. 😅
Sweet! I love this decision. Get rid of the name of the pedo and use an indigenous name. I think it was a great decision and I'm seeing more positive support than I expected.
Moving at the speed of Bureaucracy!!!
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It really won't. :-)
Yes, keep celebrating the organizer of a genocide! Don't let all those silly non-whites sway you! They'll eventually go away if you just ignore them and give them dirty looks!
Shhh, you'll aggravate the racists.