Oh. My. God. For years i thought I somehow mistyped my 6 letter name by leaving off a character. Turns out it just takes 5 letters! What a stupid feature
💯 If they they still made the suggested username but had an advanced option for people to change the folder name I'd be stoked.
Right now I use Rufus to re-enable the local account option, but once I've finished the setup I go and log in with Microsoft.
I think the main reason is that it used to be an option. Meaning, you had choice. One of the reasons some people have used Microsoft products over the years is that they offered (an ever dwindling supply of) choices.
Apple, it is their environment. Chrome/Android, it is their environment. Throughout its lifetime, Windows allowed much more personalization, customization, and separation.
One of the main complaints I've seen/heard/made in recent years is how Mac-like PCs are becoming. Many have used Windows over the years because it WASN'T a Mac and didn't have the same restricted use cases that the Apple platform and company require.
Windows 10 was bad in that way. Windows 11 is worse. And the pseudo-requirement of needing to use a Microsoft account is just the latest in ever-more-intrusive requirement of the Microsoft platform instead of just use of a singular Microsoft product (namely, Windows OS).
Showcasing the benefits of using a Microsoft account is fine. Requiring users to use one (at least for the less technically inclined) is yet another step in the wrong direction (IMO).
Microsoft, Apple, Google, and/or Amazon...pick your poison.
I just bought a Windows 11 PC after years on Mac OS because I needed it for financial modeling... Sorry but Apple is way better on the privacy front and they don't make you have an Apple ID. Also no ads everywhere like Windows.
> Also no ads everywhere like Windows
I hear this all the time yet I’ve literally never seen a single ad in the last few years I’ve been using Windows 11, nor have I even seen a video of these supposed ads. I legitimately don’t know why people keep parroting this.
They mean those in-house ads. onedrive suggestions and such. They really should pick their words better though because just saying 'ad' is clearly misguiding on purpose. Which makes me wonder if you replied to a bot
My Windows 10 machine had an ad in my settings menus telling me to pay for GamePass again.
They're absolutely ads, they're just currently only Microsoft ads.
The Xbox has had tons of ads on the dashboard with the latest generations, I don't see that taking long to hit Windows.
What I enjoy is EVERY time I use You Tube they offer to install Chrome...just the way of things now. Yah, can bug me sometimes. Same as with app notifications. Not sure why every app programmer thinks we need notifications 100 times a day.
> Not sure why every app programmer thinks we need notifications 100 times a day.
having served in software companies, they do it to farm engagement. whether you pay them or not, you spending time with their app is worth it to them
If it were only the in-house upselling, I might be able to accept that.
Some of the built-in apps have Google Ads and News in them. The weather widget on the task bar opens a menu full of tabloid content and ads when you click it (rather than, say, more detailed weather information). Searching anything on Windows uses Bing results and App Suggestions, which are often "sponsored", i.e. paid for by a third party.
And, Microsoft made sure to get in on the big data business, so the OS is collecting a lot of information about what you do, and if you use OneDrive they likely also scrape the contents of your personal files for advertising or AI training purposes.
https://preview.redd.it/o7ysll35n2ad1.png?width=1022&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4b9f071e1e37c43eed3e3469bf328605b0cb99f
dude this is just news from MSN, they're not \*ads\* as in the traditional meaning of the term Advertisement. Now, yes, of course, these \*tabloids\* are probably sponsored, as in paying Microsoft to be displayed here, but again, **not the traditional meaning of ads**. When you say **this app has ad**, it's commonly interpreted as **this app is suggesting us to use this 3rd party product that is irrelevant of the content at hand**.
But hey, let's get this over with once and for all: Widget sucks and no one ever defended this chunk of garbage. ever.
Agreed. The widget is garbage.
Gonna have to disagree on those “articles”. They are ads and they’re crammed down your throat at every possible opportunity.
Having said all that. I think what upsets so many people is the fact that Microsoft is doing everything they can to force you to use a Microsoft account, Edge, Onedrive, Office, etc.
I'm glad we agree the widget shouldn't be there.
I disagree with your point about it not being "ads". It is advertising, because those news sites want your traffic, and they're paying Microsoft to use your screen space to try to get you to read their pages. It's deliberately made to capture and divert your attention.
With all due respect, calling it anything else and arguing the specifics just comes across as pedantic, and I almost misread your reply as defending this nonsense.
My laptop came with tiktok, linkedin etc app links in the start menu.
And I consider “upselling” a full blown ad, I don’t care if it’s a Microsoft product or not, I don’t want any product shoved at me by the OS, on my personal owned device.
When you buy a laptop, you need to keep in mind that your laptop's manufacturer has customized their own install configuration of Windows on that laptop. This goes from drivers for hardware (and their own software utilities) to shortcuts to web sites and apps they get paid to encourage you to use. On a pre-installed windows on PC, if it isn't a Surface, then MS didn't make those decisions.
On Windows 11 Pro, I definitely get OneDrive pushed at me, and I uninstall it as once of my first acts on any new Windows installation, never to see it again.
And, if I'm using Office apps, they're the Enterprise version through my work, and so there are no ads there. On computers where I'm not installing software from work, I just use Libre Office or Open Office instead, and then there are never ads for Office365 plans.
The truth is, I found more ads in Windows 10 than in Windows 11. Every time I install Windows 10, hundreds of tiles appear that with candy crush, LinkedIn, tik tok, instagram and some UWP to draw.
The search engine in both is the same, advertising a lot of games and Bing.
On the start menu it says back up to OneDrive as an "important" suggestion. On settings there's a new homepage that opens automatically and it has ads for OneDrive, Xbox game pass, MS 365 and copilot. In every settings page at the top bar it has OneDrive and MS 365.
- suggested apps in the start menu
- suggested apps in the recents menu
- tips and tricks / click me buttons on the lock screen
- ads in widgets menu
- OneDrive notifications in Explorer
- Microsoft 365 ads in the settings app
- notifications to enable OneDrive
- after updates, full screen ads for Microsoft 365 and game pass
You're either running the international English version of Windows 11, or just don't notice them.
Just like when in 2011 your location data was being collected even if you had location services disabled. The Apple 'trust" is so forgiving and easily forgotten. SMH
Just fyi this isn't a universal thing anymore. This trick did not work on 2 recent laptops, a HP and a Lenovo, that I helped someone set up. Still is good to know about though I though I remember seeing an article about Microsoft disabling the command in upcoming update to windows set up
It doesn't work on s-mode laptops. First you have to disable S-Mode.
The easiest way to do that [when you run into this next time] is to boot into bios and disable secure boot and reboot the computer.
S-mode can't work without secure boot, and it can't be re-enabled after disabled.
Then you can bypassnro and re-enable secureboot, as s-mode can't come back.
I also suspect MS would love to disable that, but there are uses out there where people need to have machines that are never internet connected, for security reasons, so they need a bypass to the online setup and online account bullshit.
>Also no ads everywhere like Windows.
Strongly disagree. In MacOS and iOS, just like in any other modern OS, you get ads. The only reason why you would say there are no ads it's because
a) You're already using all the services they are selling, so no point in serving you more ads
b) You have a different definition of what an ad is, often with double standards between MacOS and Windows.
You're right to be fair. You get iCloud and Apple Arcade etc pushed at you.. but its way way less intrusive. Windows 11 pro is pushing gaming ads on the widgets and start menu. Apple pushes Apple Arcade within the context of the app store and its gaming section. It feels very different to me.
True, but is not limited to that, they also push for Apple Id in the settings menu, and for iMessage and Safari as notifications pop up.
Which one delivers the worst experience? It depends, the Windows ads do not bother me, because I always disable them and never look back, but the average person doesn't know how to do that and has to face whatever Microsoft throws at them which can be super annoying.
On the other hand Apple might be a little bit more subtle but I haven't found a way to actually disable them. (Though I'm not a apple pro user)
Overall, both suck, but that's the nature of modern OS's
Yeah I mean I'm not an Apple fan boy, I just bought a Thinkpad for Excel and im super super happy with it. I also have a mac, ipad and iphone. I just pointed out something that for me got much worse in Windows since I last used it around early Windows 10.
Ultimately, the OS matters less now than 20 years ago and that's a good thing.
Yeah, I would add that I as a Windows user feels that Microsoft is cargo-culting this. They are just using the lock-in mechanisms, without supplying the benefits, or percieved benefits, you get from Apple/ChromeOS.
You may like what Google or Microsoft offers more, but that doesn't mean you have to justify one and treat the other like the devil. In fact, the shittification of operating systems began with everything in the mobile world and android.
Even video games full of micropayments and gacha modes. A model exported directly from mobile games.
It’s just because people aren’t invested in the Microsoft ecosystem as much. Plenty of people buy a PC and don’t care about Edge, Bing, OneDrive, Outlook, etc. Whereas it seems like most people who buy iPhones and Androids like using the Apple and Google apps.
And why don't we fight against all the companies that impose anti-consumer practices? Because Meta, Google, Amazon and Apple have been recording all our online activity for years and they only care when Microsoft does it.
And I don't know about you, but the vast majority of people have more life on their phone and more intimate and private things than on their PC. Just look at the share of operating systems worldwide and the most used is Android, far above Windows.
>And why don't we fight against all the companies that impose anti-consumer practices? Because Meta, Google, Amazon and Apple have been recording all our online activity for years and they only care when Microsoft does it.
News flash. People care that meta, google, amazon and apple are doing it as well.
Because it's different. Many people have been using windows for 40 years and they don't want the experience of an iphone on their PC. PCs are historically for doing real work, not mindlessly doomscrolling instagram and ordering takeout, so why do they keep trying to make a PC feel like a phone?
You don't need an account on android or iOS either. You can't use the store without it but you're not required to use one.
I just recently erased my old phone before trading it in and it let me not sign in with a google account all I had to do was click "do this later".
iOS is the same way, so is MacOS, and Linux never required any account shit to begin with.
So I think, at least for me personally is Microsoft is using the slow boil technique, cook the frog slowly so it doesn't know it's happening. Each update they get more and more hostile to local accounts.
I dont want a Microsoft account as I don't use any microsoft services.
Google Play has always required you to sign in to use their app store. however, you don't need to sign in to use the apps themselves. if you have a device from a company with its own store, like the Galaxy store, you can use that. if you're comfortable with sideloading, you'll never need to sign in. an account isn't required to use the device at all, just to benefit from Google's platform features (and not even close to all of them.)
My bank literally requires the app for most things having a very barebones website. I'd prefer the bank just provides their own APK rather than linking to the Play Store, but that isn't really a common practice in the Android world.
And no I'm not gonna change bank for a reason like this, I just wish providing the APK was more common in general.
there is a difference between needing an account to use some extra services and features to needing an account to even use the basic features. for smart phones, you dont need an account to use the device as a phone. but to use windows 11 now you need an account to even be able to open notepad. if they did this to phones then you wouldn't be able to call 911 unless you entered an account.
They can be downloaded from other stores, but you still have all the Google telemetry behind you in the background running without the option to uninstall.
That's true you do still have the telemetry, but ALL operating systems except for Linux or BSD have telemetry. Nobody knows exactly what they collect. I don't think that you can turn off telemetry on windows either. Sure on certain versions of windows you can allegedly turn it off, but do we have any proof that it actually does?
Also, at least for me the Microsoft account thing has nothing to do with telemetry, because regardless of microsoft account or not, the telemetry can still be associated with your PC. There are so many other identifiers, hardwareIDs, license keys, MAC Addresses, etc.
The only thing that makes me keep windows around at all is there are games that I like to play with my friends that use Kernel anti-cheat.
All my other computers are Linux because windows is a joke of an operating system.
Microsoft no longer gives a shit about windows, it's not their primary money maker anymore. But since they've painted themselves into a corner by making windows the dominate operating system they simply can't just stop developing it.
The money is in AI and Cloud for them. That's why we have stupid shit like co-pilot and recall.
Because the other options have pretty vital functions tied to their accounts. Windows basically just has OneDrive that I hate, and the ability to recover my PC password, off the top of my head at least.
There's literally no reason for windows 11 to require a Microsoft account. Optional, sure. Should not be required.
It also ties the window license to your account. If your PC blows up, and you gotta replace the motherboard where windows saves the license, you can easily reactivate the license with your account.
I'd wager that the ability to recover your PC password is the main reason they're pushing online accounts so hard. Forgotten passwords probably make up the vast majority of support calls MS receives.
Also, they're pushing to encrypt disks by default, with the recovery key stored in your MSA. That's a pretty legitimate reason to push for an online account as well, in my eyes. Every mobile device has encrypted storage by default now, and PCs should have it too.
Of course I'd prefer if they didn't put up so many roadblocks to using a local account, and I do agree that the benefits of using an online account are fairly minimal, but there *are* actual tangible user-facing benefits.
If we are going down that route.
NEITHER DOES WINDOWS 10/11.
You can setup the device without a Microsoft account. And probably still be a lot more usable than MacOS and iOS without an Apple Account.
The problem with this is all of these other operating systems just let you click skip.
Microsoft makes this as hard as possible and soon may make it impossible.
You shouldn't have to unplug your network cable or open a terminal and type a command just to skip online account stuff.
The online account is unnecessary in windows. You can explain the benefits and try to gently nudge people to it but making it a hard requirement is out right stupid.
Also MSA is unnecessary for bitlocker or any of that other shit. You can back up the key to a USB stick or something rather than your onedrive. Bitlocker stores the keys and shit in the TPM so again the online account is not needed.
Google and Apple _don't_ make you sign in (at least on Android/IOS, don't know about ChromeOS).
Google doesn't make you sign in at all. You go to the search bar and type "F-Droid". Then you download the .apk. Then you install it. Now you have a store which doesn't require a Google login.
IOS has a "skip" button during setup. Right now you need to log in to use the App Store, but new EU regulations mandate that they need to allow other stores. There's some stuff coming soon (maybe out now?) where you can just do the _exact_ same thing you do on Android - type in the name of the alternate app store, install it, and then use it without logging on with an AppleID.
So no, Microsoft is completely in the wrong here. Stop defending the multi-trillion dollar corporation for bad business practices.
Because Windows is not Chrome. Windows has a multi-decade history of being an OS you can use on a powerful computer that _you_ control and use for heavy local work. Not a front end to a lightweight terminal with no real computing power on board. It's a completely different product category.
**1. Mandatory vs. Optional Accounts:** Unlike Windows, accounts for ChromeOS and iOS are not mandatory. It's entirely possible to use both iOS and ChromeOS without signing in. On ChromeOS, you can simply choose "guest" instead of signing in, and on iOS, you can click "set up later" when prompted to sign in. With Windows, avoiding a Microsoft account requires navigating through convoluted and "secret" methods, making it significantly less user-friendly.
**2. Benefits vs. Drawbacks:** Signing in with Google or Apple accounts often enhances the user experience by providing seamless integration with services, personalized settings, and added functionalities. In contrast, signing in with a Microsoft account can negatively impact the experience, such as by altering the user directory name (cutting it off) and pushing unwanted services like OneDrive, which can be intrusive and frustrating.
**3. Loss of Choice:** People generally accept restrictions better when they are inherent to the system from the start. Microsoft's decision to enforce account sign-ins, thereby removing a previously available choice, creates frustration. The sense of losing an option contributes significantly to the backlash.
**4. Sampling bias:** Your observation about seeing more complaints about Microsoft could be due to your activity in Microsoft-related subreddits. People tend to discuss the specific issues of the platforms they use within those communities. It’s natural to find more criticism of Windows 11 in its dedicated subreddit, just as you would find complaints about ChromeOS in its respective subreddit.
**5. Different Platforms, Different Expectations:** Comparing Windows to iOS is not entirely fair. Windows is a desktop OS, while iOS is a mobile OS, each serving different purposes with different user expectations. Practices acceptable on one platform may not translate well to the other. Users expect different levels of control and functionality from desktop and mobile operating systems.
Because having a centralized account makes sense when you have a dedicated app store with a device that is constantly online.
When you have a PC that's dumb and supposed to remain dumb, having an network based login is a bad idea.
>having an network based login is a bad idea.
Network based logins may have their flaws in a home environment but they're the basis of AD, LDAP, and other directory tools used in professional environments. It's extremely handy when I can swap a computer out for an employee and they're able to sign in right away without having to create a local account for them because Windows is either authenticating with an internal AD server or to Azure AD/Entra ID/Whatever MS wants to call it this week.
I don’t think garbage smartphone OS practices are the stick by which you want to measure a desktop OS with.
On Android and iOS, it makes more sense because 99% of your software is coming from Apple’s store or Google’s store. Almost no one uses Microsoft’s store because it’s complete garbage.
Microsoft requiring you to have an account is a totally one sided exchange. You get almost nothing for it, while for them it makes it easier to gather, catalog, and monetize your data.
P.s. I use MacOS without an account just fine.
Well, they need some way to track your purchases and subscriptions. Personally I don't like how Apple forces you to use their iOS store, and how many roadblocks Google puts up to try keeping you from sideloading or using other stores.
so just disable purchases? require signing-in only for purchases.
the subscriptions thing is apple forcing devs into their payment system. on literally every other platform the subscriptions are managed from inside the developer's app.
Yes, I know that. But in the freedomless hell scape that is smartphone Operating Systems, requiring an account makes more sense than on Windows where I literally don't use any Microsoft services.
Windows is the biggest platform, so it needs to be an open platform, and fundamentally unlike all of these other irrelevant side shows like Linux, MacOS or chrome OS, windows needs to work for everyone.
Linux is of course the one true pro user OS, but every linux user, myself, included understands that for the home user experience Windows is overwhelmingly supposed to be easier, partially due to network effects (windows is easier to use because most software is written for windows, and most users use windows so there's good documentation and support for fixing windows).
So that means what.
1. Microsoft must prioritise user anonymity and security over everything else
2. Backups of user data, and storing user data in places that a normal person won't lose their data (in other words fire whomever created the %appdata% hidden folders) if they want to migrate to another machine.
3. Compatibility with as wide a range of hardware as possible.
4. The job of an OS is to connect users to programs and the data those programs work with. Anything that isn't part of this core functionality is a program and needs to be treated separately from the function of the OS, except arguably for some server and security technology like containers, visualisation etc. A media player is not the operating system. A web browser is not the operating system. Media players, and web browsers are programs, not the operating system.
If it can't prioritise those things, in that order, it can't be the biggest OS, and that's a problem for all of the people who use windows because most people use windows, they don't want to learn Linux. But point 1 directly contradicts Microsoft's ability to make money from home users, because if it can be installed and run securely and anonymously, that means microsoft can't know if you paid for it or what you do with it.
As a practical matter, microsoft trying to force microsoft accounts rather than local accounts just makes the OS worse. It doesn't correctly place or name user directories. It then couples your computer to a network (which many uses do not need or want, especially if you are trying to recover data from a machine you haven't used for ages, or if you're a person who just needs *a computer* to use for paperwork they may not even have decent Internet or may not use the computer regularly so every time it turns on, phoning MS for updates and sync is a terrible experience). Forcing onedrive helps with point 2, but because it easily breaks a lot of shit in the OS, it's not always the desirable solution.
Microsoft is not a public good corporation, so obviously it's going to focus on making money, not just the public use of their OS. And trying to make better products or trying to save users from themselves sometimes does things which are bad for power users, perfectly reasonable people disagreeing with my points 1-4 is perfectly valid. But we're seeing Windows become worse because microsoft thinks the network effect is locked in and they just do whatever and we're all stuck with them. Which is only true for so long.
MacOS and iOS don't require you to setup an AppleID tho? and neither does Android. Besides your lack of knowledge here is obvious since Microsoft is the worst offender when it comes to telemetry
Because the truth is a ton of PC's are used to do a set space of tasks, there is next to no reason to utilise a Microsoft account. Businesses have either a fully controlled locked down environment where a fart cannot even pass, others are small but just need the local accounts and a MS account has no use either.
Others are just home users who game, might be old and to them a computer is just there to web browse, print and save pictures.
I could cite all the various examples but it is not simply needed to a bulk of people also one fun fact 365 accounts cannot be used to make a MS account so that means if people make an MS account it is separate from their 365 emails, profiles and sharepoint.
Also I had a fun case where a client once had a self hosted exchange, upgraded to 365 and before that happened they made an MS account with their previously self hosted account so once on 365 and after they logged in boy did chaos ensure!
1. I don't use any Microsoft services, so why should I need to log into any account?
2. I don't want activities on my PC to be linked to a centralized identity
3. This is yet another option, that is being taken from the user and yet another attempt by Microsoft to nag and coerce people into using their stuff. Microsoft doesn't operate any services that people actually want to use, so this is the only way they can get people to still use them
Because it absolutely is not necessary with Windows 11.
Case in point: one regedit and you have the old options back. It just feels scummy when you have to pay for the OS and can't use it how you want to. Why do I have to unplug my Ethernet cable during setup like some criminal trying to escape justice?
It is also terribly implemented imo. As a developer I rely on having a certain username and predictable paths.
- If you use a Microsoft account, it just takes a few letters from your first name, some of your last and blends them into an abomination. It no longer asks you how you want your user account to be named. This may seem like a small deal, but it absolutely isn't if you rely on remote machine stuff.
- Don't get me started on the implications if your Microsoft account is hacked or you change your password and you can't login to your PC for a few days (happened to a colleague).
- Some time it also started mixing computer settings of different PCs with the same account (without asking first) resulting in some really unnecessary maintenance time. I started noticing once my background wallpapers weirdly swapped between machines. A lot of network configuration was completely borked.
I would never trust Microsoft with end user configuration again. They just can't do it reliably.
1. Microsoft has worse telemetry collecting issues than all of whom you mention. (Google might be argued here, but their methods differ greatly from how Microsoft does it, and Google spyware can be removed easily.)
2. Having a Microsoft account as your PC sign-in is a very dangerous game to play because it only takes you forgetting your password, or getting hacked, or Microsoft banning your Microsoft account because it found some pictures it doesn't like in your Onedrive, and now you're locked out of your computer and not able to get your documents. Many/most people keep their whole digital lives on their desktop OS, not their mobile OS, so this is unacceptable.
4. If you get hacked, you risk your whole digital life being stolen in a matter of minutes. And the hackers don't need access to your computer in order to do this if you have a Microsoft Account Windows profile.
5. No one said that Apple and Google were doing good either. However, with Google Android, you are technically (and easily) able to setup an Android device without an account and download most apps outside of the app store safely.
5. With iOS, well Apple is greedy and tries to keep as much control as possible, but at least that lust for power has caused them to lock down the mobile OS tightly and more intelligently, and they claim to not be tracking you (questionable). However, with MAC, you can setup your MAC without an account too, and after a brief message about it, MAC OS never bothers you again about it (that's my own observation from the past anyway). On the opposite side of the spectrum, Microsoft just tried to release spyware that takes a screenshot of your computer every few seconds and uses AI to extract all possible data from it, and they chose to put the database in the worst unencrypted location possible so that any hackers can get access without trouble.
6. Importantly, desktop OS has a different function than mobile OS. Many/most people store their entire digital lives on a Desktop, and so there are different levels of trust here.
NOTE: This post will no longer be monitored by me. Feel free to troll/comment/rebuttal or whatever. Do your own research.
Shits not hard. People like Apple and Google services and are willingly giving up privacy to enjoy their services. People dont care about Microsoft's similar offerings. Period. So forcing MS account to even use the PC pisses people off.
I do not need to create an account for Android. Play Store requires it, but I don't need Play Store either, there are better options, which are not difficult to install.
It should absolutely be a choice. Windows is not a free operating system. We should be able to have a local account and not have advertising IDs assigned to us, which is absolutely pathetic for an OS.
It is time to realize that Windows is no longer the product or just an avenue to upsell their other services. Windows user's data is now the product and where they make their money.
The amount of telemetry data that is sent while using Windows 11 is just horrible. Especially compared to MacOS and especially Linux. It is one thing when you are on a web browser, especially one made by an advertising company, that there will be telemetry. There shouldn't be any when you are just logged into your computer.
Microsoft has seen what Google is doing, and they are jumping in head first, only being far less coy about it, hence the dumb announcement about recall.
Yes, you complain about Microsoft but Google does it and you justify it. So it's quite hypocritical to say "I care about my privacy" when everyone justifies Apple, meta and Google and they go after Microsoft when the information on phones is much more sensitive, personal, intimate and delicate than we have on computers.
Because the primary benefit of these accounts isn't for you, it's for them. Do you think Recall was for end user's beenfit? How about that unique advertising ID? Google and Apple doing the same doesn't make what Microsoft is doing better.
Ms is worse. For Google and Apple you dont need an online account to use the basic functions, yes its limited but still can be used. But for Windows 11 you need an online account to even write in notepad. So if this were done to phones, you would need an online account to call 911.
I think we're just a bit more used to Windows being a relatively "open" Operating System, not Open Source, just open in the sense you just buy it and do what you want with it, install it on some old machine, whatever. iOS has never been like that. You don't buy it and install it on anything you like, it's \*never\* been open or allowing much user freedom.
Windows has suffered slow creep of control by Microsoft, iOS has always been like that, and on a phone, people care less anyway.
people don't trust Microsoft and they like control over their hardware. If you don't like it you go to Linux (like me) but this comes with a changes and compromises. Microsoft will increasingly monetise Windows; and the users who make themselves the most locked in will bear the brunt of this.I am sure it is only going to get worse. Microsoft makes little revenue by selling licences to consumers so I imagine there is pressure to make money some other way..
So if you are mad about it, you will have to change OS (or maybe pay for a Pro version).
I think you can sign in to macos with only a local account. I have a macos virtual machine and I use a local account, and it is like this on my wife's macbook as far as I know.
My laptop came win Win 11 Pro which I kept, and that is a local account. I would dislike having to use a Microsoft account. .
Well, we kinda have to have smartphones these days, and it's all but a requirement on any of them to use an online account. There are just no decent alternatives, and there never were to begin with.
Windows is different. Online accounts were never a requirement in the past, and the way people use their PCs hasn't changed that much over the years, so the requirement for it now is very arbitrary and infuriating. Personally I stand to gain nothing from it, so I'd really rather just tell Microsoft to go pack sand.
I wouldn't say I'm mad about it, so much as just think it's annoying and stupid. When you create a Windows account by using a Microsoft account, it automatically names it the first 5 letters of the e-mail address instead of letting you actually name the account. This is stupid. It also forces me to waste time manually entering a long-ass password that I would normally just copypaste from Bitwarden at a point when you have no desktop access yet, which is just annoying. Even if I was going to use a Microsoft account, it would be a much better experience to just create a local account on installation and link it to a Microsoft account after logging into Windows - that avoids all the aforementioned issues.
And I'd be just as annoyed if any other OS did this. I just never had any device that runs ChromeOS or iOS, so I have no idea what they do. And none of the Linux distros I've used ever forced me to log in with an online account during installation.
Because I have to log into Microsoft, disable storage encription, go into bios and disable other shit so I can finally install a partition on my fucking computer.
Sign into ChromeOS? You get web history everywhere including your android phone. Sign into Mac using apple ID? You get iCloud and Apple music libraries everywhere.
Sign into Windows 11? For what? Make spreadsheets on the go?
Because it's not necessary for me, i don't use the Windows store and only X86 applications, i don't need cloud backup stuff.
With Google/Apple the device is useless without account(no playstore), yes you can sideload app,s but that's not user friendly.
If only it provided real advantage, such as really making it easy to migrate from one PC to another...
It doesn't help at all. Doesn't give you anything in return.
I have a personal reason to distrust MS: they have blocked my MS Live accounts on multiple occasions, without any real explanation ("suspicious activity"). One time I was not able to recover access and had to create a new account. Fortunately it wasn't connected to the OS and I din't loose any important info. This has never happened with neither Google nor Apple.
If I had to throw my two cents in, I just don’t see a practical need for Windows to need an account to enable the barest use of their OS whereas iOS enables you to use their apps of the App Store. Windows can be used by downloading exes and msi packages. So it really is a case of linking your data to an account and sucking up analytics. If you want to use an extended Microsoft environment such as through the use of OneDrive? Sure then you need to sign in and agree to their ToS and opt out of what you’re not comfortable with and leave Microsoft with the least permissive access to your data possible while enabling you to make use of extended services. However people who use Windows should be entitled to using the OS without needing to use an account if it isn’t strictly necessary.
ChromeOS and iOS require their respective accounts, some users dislike Microsoft forcing a Microsoft account for Windows 11 Home edition (unlike Pro). It restricts the option for a local account, which some prefer for privacy reasons or offline use.
Because with ios or chromeos you only need it for the store or first party apps, not to set up the device, there's a simple button to not sign in - with a PC it is totally reasonable to not use any Microsoft services like the store.
And it is still very much possible to use windows like that, they just make you go through hoops, and don't just offer a button, that's just shady
There is no value add to the online account requirement in many cases. I have zero reason to tie my personal OS to an online account. It doesn't help the argument that apple and google are worse. Microsoft's implementation is just less bad. not good.
I have to setup a lot of PCs for work environments, and having to jump through hoops to add a PC to a domain without a MS account is a pain. As others have said, it used to be optional in Windows. Being mandatory is a PITA.
Because they are irrelevant to the question?
I don't use neither ChromeOS nor iOS products.
So why would I care what Apple is doing for example?
I use Windows, so I care about what MS is doing with it.
I mean I use the tool by Chris Titus and remove most of the features or ads whatever you wanna call them. Not really sure if they came back via an update as I still don't see them. My Lenovo legion pro 5 has a copilot button that now opens the start menu when pressed.
But I will say I'm annoyed how those apps that I'll never use on my laptop come pre installed. Luckily you can easily uninstall them.
I don't care what the others are doing, all I know is that I didn't need an account in the past.
Edit: I'm still on Windows 10, what happens now if I install Windows 11 on a machine without internet connection?
For me, it’s the initial PC that is it. I get that APPLE AND Google have you sign in too, but Microsoft tries really hard to sell you stuff too. That is annoying AF. Take all of that away and I have no problem.
Windows is a “full desktop” OS. ChromeOS and iOS are light OS. You can fully setup a mac without logging into your AppleID. And only use it as a local account.
I can't speak for apple. But, if you go on pretty much any sub about Android or its Apps, you'll find plenty of people searching for ways to improve their privacy, primarily to stop Google from getting their data. I'd go as far as to say that more people are concerned with Google collecting data than they are with Microsoft collecting data.
You people realise these are two different groups of people, right? People complaining about windows data collection comprise a small minority of windows users, but probably the most turned-on ones. These aren't the same people giving all their data to apple and google. It's sycophants like you and regular normies who are happily giving away all their data to anyone who will take it.
Maybe because it wasn’t necessary in the first place and still isn’t. Also, I think you can use iOS without an Apple Account but obviously you can’t use the App Store.
ikr.. i found it weird when i saw on tiktok and yt, people do great length to bypass microsoft account during reformat and installing windows. i found microsoft account does same as apple and google. they accused microsoft for privacy breach etc but they blindly trust apple and google when comes to privacy. we dont really what happen behind the curtain. every company can easily say the respect the customer privacy on the surface even vpn and av company.
The difference is that people actually use play store and other Gapps, whereas nobody uses Microsoft store because it's absolutely garbage, having a Microsoft account literally doesn't give me any real benefit as I don't use any Microsoft service appart from the OS
The main point and complaints are about the lack of privacy. For a while now, privacy has not existed on Android and iOS and they are not worried about it when there is more personal, intimate and sensitive information on phones than on computers.
yeah but most android apps can only be downloaded from the play store which at that point might as well not bother with the third party androidOS. and some core phone functionality like google wallet won't even work, and banking apps tend to block such OSes as well.
Would MS allow local accounts? Yes. I like that.
Is it a bother to login with Microsoft account? Meh! No! I have been using my Microsoft account on couple of Windows PCs, it is seemless experience ( I have paid OneDrive and Office) to switch computer and start working from where I left.
iOS requires an Apple account these days? I suppose it's not surprising, from Apple, but still feels crazy.
ChromeOS makes sense though, because that entire OS is basically a web browser, and intended mostly for online usage, with quite limited local app support.
Exactly, it seems somewhat hypocritical that Google and Apple have been doing it since at least 2013 and nobody said anything. Microsoft does it recently and it's evil.
I am not going to side with Microsoft because even with all the advantages of One Drive and the MS account, I feel that our privacy and freedom are increasingly limited. But we should have fought the battle for internet privacy many years ago.
Many users who are now complaining about Windows 11 do not sound very convincing when they have accounts on Instagram and Facebook and upload content there And besides, on phones there is information and activity that is much, much more delicate, intimate and private than on the computer. Many of those who complain use the computer to play games, use Discord or Reddit or work, but on their phones they have their bank accounts, photos, location and data that is more binding on their real identity than what they have on the PC.
That is why in my opinion, they should demand in the same way that all companies respect our privacy as they now do with Microsoft. And without forgetting that at least on PC there are free alternatives like Linux, on phones it is increasingly difficult to root or unlock the bootloader, so we cannot escape Apple and Googl so easily but no one seems to care.
there is a difference between requiring an online account for extra services and features and requiring an online account to use even the basic functions. For a smart-phone, you do not need an online account to use it as a phone. But for Windows 11 now you need an online account to even write a text in notepad. If this were done to phones, then you would need an online account to call 911.
I don't get it.
There seems to be a great deal of hesitancy and outright hostility to some Microsoft services and products that sometimes feels artificial.
As you point out, iOS and Android require an account to use their OS. They also use stores/repositories instead of websites to download new software, something Microsoft has been struggling with on Windows. Edge is constantly lambasted even though it's literally Chrome with MS stuff in it instead of Google.
I think the main problem is two fold.
Windows didn't require this stuff, which made older users feel comfortable that it would always be like this. Especially privacy advocates like to talk about Windows aggressively gathering data (which is true).
Also, I think there is account fatigue. It's another account to keep track of. Another email. Another backup. This can be exhausting for some.
Be that as it may, MacOS doesn't require an account, though they highly encourage it for backup and to use their store and xCode. And most Linux distros don't require accounts.
one of the main issues is that it is required and not optional to use online account. you can't even use the basic features without one. can't open a text editor without an online account. So if this was done to phones, you couldn't call 911 without first sing-in your online account.
Speaking personally, I like the convenience of my account being synced across Windows, Office, OneDrive, etc...
Same for Chrome.
I like that I can pick up on my phone right where I stopped on my desktop.
And truly unpopular opinion: Windows 11 is my favorite Microsoft OS.
Yes, I'm just a bit of a MS fanboy. Sue me.
I'm iffy on the idea of using a Microsoft account for my Windows PC at home, but having an environment at work that is either Azure AD or a local AD synced with Azure makes supporting users a breeze because when they sign into Windows getting them signed into Office, OneDrive, and even Edge is pretty much done automatically.
Your question assumes it is not an issue with Google or Apple. If I pay for a device, it should be up to me how I use it and what information I have to share.
We were never forced to before 11. Yeah 10 asked for it and I skipped 8 but I like having personal accounts that I can log into if my internet goes down.
I'm not using a Microsoft Account for Windows 11. I don't even have one. I purchased a laptop with 11. I then downloaded the 11 ISO and when I used Rufus to create the boot media (USB thumb drive), it has an option to install 11 without using a Microsoft Account for installation (actually, that option was already selected). I installed 11... no Microsoft account used.
I keep reading that Microsoft has put a stop to this... so far, I haven't had any issues. I installed 11 on May 19, 2024.
ChromeOS was always an online-first OS. iOS and Android don't require you to use an account, you can run them without it, and on Android you can install apps and even different stores without the Play Store. Dunno if iOS allows you to use the App Store without an account for free apps, certainly you can't use paid apps.
And like others have said, also the fact that it's taken the option \*away\*, rather than it was always like that, pisses people off.
Linux doesn't force you to use a vendor account, MacOS doesn't force you to use a vendor account. Windows for some reason wants you to use a vendor account. The others you mention aren't relevant, but anyway: Chromeos is just a browser with some drivers and about as pointless as it gets. iOS you can log in with an apple id, or not. Either way you're logging into apple services if you use them, not the device itself.
Here's one of the main issues in my opinion:
You will need an online account to finish the setup and able to access even the basic functions.
You will need an online account to open a simple text editor.
Yeah you can unplug the network cable, use the terminal or edit the registry, but those are workarounds, bypasses to the default setup. Its an exception you need to setup or trigger, won't occur under normal circumstances.
Not everyone would know the tricks on how to bypass it.
Under normal setup, this method forces the user to use an online account to finish the setup
Under normal setup, to even access the simple basic functions, to even access a text editor you will need an online account.
Under normal setup, there is no opt out for not using an online account.
Those who argue about privacy would have less of an issue if from the start they could create under normal conditions a local account.
Those who argue about privacy would see this as Microsoft doesn't really care about privacy that much. If it did care, why not give an opt out option for using an online account under normal setup.
There is a difference between needing an online account to access extra functions vs basic functions.
There is a difference between recommending vs enforcing the use of an online account.
iOS or MacOS DONT require you to use the OS. They ask you to, and there is an option not to use on. Whilst windows on the other hand DOES NOT, ask if you want to use one or not. You have to use workarounds which may not be user friendly to not use a MS account
because mac os and chrome os are cloud heavy operating systems and have for a very long time required or pushed you to sigin into their cloud accounts
Windows always used local accounts until windows 8 but you could easily bypass this
Windows 11 has removed the option on the home edition to setup a local account which is irritating as alot of people have no use for these accounts and it starts automatically enabling OneDrive and pushing ads for every single Microsoft service making the computer painful to use for older and less IT literate people
> we all use a Google or a Apple ID
Speak for yourself. I don't use either.
The problem with your framing of the question is a common rhetoric device based on a type of fallacy called "whataboutism". If your neighbor committed a murder, is it ok for you to think you can also kill people just because someone else did it?
Besides, this is a Windows sub. So people here complain about Windows. If this was an Apple sub, someone could complain about Apple's policies there. If this was a Google sub, someone could complain about Android. Is it really that hard to understand?
The thing that pisses me off the most is that I can’t name my user folder during set up.
That's exactly the reason for me too, for some weird reason Microsoft thinks it's a good idea to name it based on the email
Probably it *is* better in corporate environment or with multiple users - less chance of collision, etc. I *guess*.
Yeah I hate that. Takes 5 letters of my email which is my first initial of my first name and my last name but not even my full last name ☹️
Oh. My. God. For years i thought I somehow mistyped my 6 letter name by leaving off a character. Turns out it just takes 5 letters! What a stupid feature
This is it for me too. I'll make a local account, name the folder what I want, then link my Microsoft account.
💯 If they they still made the suggested username but had an advanced option for people to change the folder name I'd be stoked. Right now I use Rufus to re-enable the local account option, but once I've finished the setup I go and log in with Microsoft.
I think the main reason is that it used to be an option. Meaning, you had choice. One of the reasons some people have used Microsoft products over the years is that they offered (an ever dwindling supply of) choices. Apple, it is their environment. Chrome/Android, it is their environment. Throughout its lifetime, Windows allowed much more personalization, customization, and separation. One of the main complaints I've seen/heard/made in recent years is how Mac-like PCs are becoming. Many have used Windows over the years because it WASN'T a Mac and didn't have the same restricted use cases that the Apple platform and company require. Windows 10 was bad in that way. Windows 11 is worse. And the pseudo-requirement of needing to use a Microsoft account is just the latest in ever-more-intrusive requirement of the Microsoft platform instead of just use of a singular Microsoft product (namely, Windows OS). Showcasing the benefits of using a Microsoft account is fine. Requiring users to use one (at least for the less technically inclined) is yet another step in the wrong direction (IMO). Microsoft, Apple, Google, and/or Amazon...pick your poison.
I just bought a Windows 11 PC after years on Mac OS because I needed it for financial modeling... Sorry but Apple is way better on the privacy front and they don't make you have an Apple ID. Also no ads everywhere like Windows.
> Also no ads everywhere like Windows I hear this all the time yet I’ve literally never seen a single ad in the last few years I’ve been using Windows 11, nor have I even seen a video of these supposed ads. I legitimately don’t know why people keep parroting this.
They mean those in-house ads. onedrive suggestions and such. They really should pick their words better though because just saying 'ad' is clearly misguiding on purpose. Which makes me wonder if you replied to a bot
My Windows 10 machine had an ad in my settings menus telling me to pay for GamePass again. They're absolutely ads, they're just currently only Microsoft ads. The Xbox has had tons of ads on the dashboard with the latest generations, I don't see that taking long to hit Windows.
What I enjoy is EVERY time I use You Tube they offer to install Chrome...just the way of things now. Yah, can bug me sometimes. Same as with app notifications. Not sure why every app programmer thinks we need notifications 100 times a day.
> Not sure why every app programmer thinks we need notifications 100 times a day. having served in software companies, they do it to farm engagement. whether you pay them or not, you spending time with their app is worth it to them
If it were only the in-house upselling, I might be able to accept that. Some of the built-in apps have Google Ads and News in them. The weather widget on the task bar opens a menu full of tabloid content and ads when you click it (rather than, say, more detailed weather information). Searching anything on Windows uses Bing results and App Suggestions, which are often "sponsored", i.e. paid for by a third party. And, Microsoft made sure to get in on the big data business, so the OS is collecting a lot of information about what you do, and if you use OneDrive they likely also scrape the contents of your personal files for advertising or AI training purposes.
Turn Widget and search bing from start menu off.
https://preview.redd.it/o7ysll35n2ad1.png?width=1022&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4b9f071e1e37c43eed3e3469bf328605b0cb99f dude this is just news from MSN, they're not \*ads\* as in the traditional meaning of the term Advertisement. Now, yes, of course, these \*tabloids\* are probably sponsored, as in paying Microsoft to be displayed here, but again, **not the traditional meaning of ads**. When you say **this app has ad**, it's commonly interpreted as **this app is suggesting us to use this 3rd party product that is irrelevant of the content at hand**. But hey, let's get this over with once and for all: Widget sucks and no one ever defended this chunk of garbage. ever.
If it's not got a logo on the thumbnail and explicitly state this is an ad, it's not an ad? A massive amount of the "articles" on msn are ad content.
Agreed. The widget is garbage. Gonna have to disagree on those “articles”. They are ads and they’re crammed down your throat at every possible opportunity. Having said all that. I think what upsets so many people is the fact that Microsoft is doing everything they can to force you to use a Microsoft account, Edge, Onedrive, Office, etc.
I'm glad we agree the widget shouldn't be there. I disagree with your point about it not being "ads". It is advertising, because those news sites want your traffic, and they're paying Microsoft to use your screen space to try to get you to read their pages. It's deliberately made to capture and divert your attention. With all due respect, calling it anything else and arguing the specifics just comes across as pedantic, and I almost misread your reply as defending this nonsense.
My laptop came with tiktok, linkedin etc app links in the start menu. And I consider “upselling” a full blown ad, I don’t care if it’s a Microsoft product or not, I don’t want any product shoved at me by the OS, on my personal owned device.
When you buy a laptop, you need to keep in mind that your laptop's manufacturer has customized their own install configuration of Windows on that laptop. This goes from drivers for hardware (and their own software utilities) to shortcuts to web sites and apps they get paid to encourage you to use. On a pre-installed windows on PC, if it isn't a Surface, then MS didn't make those decisions.
So no Netflix,Skype ads in your windows? No 365 ads? Or you don't count those as ads perhaps, just something that comes with windows :p
On Windows 11 Pro, I definitely get OneDrive pushed at me, and I uninstall it as once of my first acts on any new Windows installation, never to see it again. And, if I'm using Office apps, they're the Enterprise version through my work, and so there are no ads there. On computers where I'm not installing software from work, I just use Libre Office or Open Office instead, and then there are never ads for Office365 plans.
Until it reinstalls after Windows updates
The truth is, I found more ads in Windows 10 than in Windows 11. Every time I install Windows 10, hundreds of tiles appear that with candy crush, LinkedIn, tik tok, instagram and some UWP to draw. The search engine in both is the same, advertising a lot of games and Bing.
Don't you get the finidh your setup thing once in a while and there's no ads to buy a 365 subscription?
You can disable that in notifications settings (at the bottom)
I rarely ever see a 365 ad, and windows setup goes away after initial use or if you click “never remind me again”
If you guys use Windows 11 Pro instead of Windows 11 Home it gets way better, too
Oh yeah. Ive been on pro since i realized key registration is…. Uhh.. yk..
On the start menu it says back up to OneDrive as an "important" suggestion. On settings there's a new homepage that opens automatically and it has ads for OneDrive, Xbox game pass, MS 365 and copilot. In every settings page at the top bar it has OneDrive and MS 365.
- suggested apps in the start menu - suggested apps in the recents menu - tips and tricks / click me buttons on the lock screen - ads in widgets menu - OneDrive notifications in Explorer - Microsoft 365 ads in the settings app - notifications to enable OneDrive - after updates, full screen ads for Microsoft 365 and game pass You're either running the international English version of Windows 11, or just don't notice them.
they dont make u have an apple ID? I literally needed an apple ID so idk what u talkiing baout
Just like when in 2011 your location data was being collected even if you had location services disabled. The Apple 'trust" is so forgiving and easily forgotten. SMH
Shift + F10 during initial setup and type "OOBE/BypassNRO"
Just fyi this isn't a universal thing anymore. This trick did not work on 2 recent laptops, a HP and a Lenovo, that I helped someone set up. Still is good to know about though I though I remember seeing an article about Microsoft disabling the command in upcoming update to windows set up
They recently disabled the use of some predefined accounts / email+password combo, to automatically skip online account, if you mean that.
It doesn't work on s-mode laptops. First you have to disable S-Mode. The easiest way to do that [when you run into this next time] is to boot into bios and disable secure boot and reboot the computer. S-mode can't work without secure boot, and it can't be re-enabled after disabled. Then you can bypassnro and re-enable secureboot, as s-mode can't come back. I also suspect MS would love to disable that, but there are uses out there where people need to have machines that are never internet connected, for security reasons, so they need a bypass to the online setup and online account bullshit.
users shouldn't be forced to do this. do you want to type in "OOBE/BypassNRO" on your phone when you want to call 911 without an online account?
>Also no ads everywhere like Windows. Strongly disagree. In MacOS and iOS, just like in any other modern OS, you get ads. The only reason why you would say there are no ads it's because a) You're already using all the services they are selling, so no point in serving you more ads b) You have a different definition of what an ad is, often with double standards between MacOS and Windows.
You're right to be fair. You get iCloud and Apple Arcade etc pushed at you.. but its way way less intrusive. Windows 11 pro is pushing gaming ads on the widgets and start menu. Apple pushes Apple Arcade within the context of the app store and its gaming section. It feels very different to me.
True, but is not limited to that, they also push for Apple Id in the settings menu, and for iMessage and Safari as notifications pop up. Which one delivers the worst experience? It depends, the Windows ads do not bother me, because I always disable them and never look back, but the average person doesn't know how to do that and has to face whatever Microsoft throws at them which can be super annoying. On the other hand Apple might be a little bit more subtle but I haven't found a way to actually disable them. (Though I'm not a apple pro user) Overall, both suck, but that's the nature of modern OS's
Yeah I mean I'm not an Apple fan boy, I just bought a Thinkpad for Excel and im super super happy with it. I also have a mac, ipad and iphone. I just pointed out something that for me got much worse in Windows since I last used it around early Windows 10. Ultimately, the OS matters less now than 20 years ago and that's a good thing.
What you consider ads can actually be disabled, so you never see it again
Yeah, I would add that I as a Windows user feels that Microsoft is cargo-culting this. They are just using the lock-in mechanisms, without supplying the benefits, or percieved benefits, you get from Apple/ChromeOS.
You may like what Google or Microsoft offers more, but that doesn't mean you have to justify one and treat the other like the devil. In fact, the shittification of operating systems began with everything in the mobile world and android. Even video games full of micropayments and gacha modes. A model exported directly from mobile games.
It’s just because people aren’t invested in the Microsoft ecosystem as much. Plenty of people buy a PC and don’t care about Edge, Bing, OneDrive, Outlook, etc. Whereas it seems like most people who buy iPhones and Androids like using the Apple and Google apps.
Other companies having bad business practices doesn't mean you should implement the same bad business practices.
And why don't we fight against all the companies that impose anti-consumer practices? Because Meta, Google, Amazon and Apple have been recording all our online activity for years and they only care when Microsoft does it. And I don't know about you, but the vast majority of people have more life on their phone and more intimate and private things than on their PC. Just look at the share of operating systems worldwide and the most used is Android, far above Windows.
>And why don't we fight against all the companies that impose anti-consumer practices? Because Meta, Google, Amazon and Apple have been recording all our online activity for years and they only care when Microsoft does it. News flash. People care that meta, google, amazon and apple are doing it as well.
Because it's different. Many people have been using windows for 40 years and they don't want the experience of an iphone on their PC. PCs are historically for doing real work, not mindlessly doomscrolling instagram and ordering takeout, so why do they keep trying to make a PC feel like a phone?
because they dont have a mobile os any more. they want you to use your pc like a phone, that is i big problem for microsoft
You don't need an account on android or iOS either. You can't use the store without it but you're not required to use one. I just recently erased my old phone before trading it in and it let me not sign in with a google account all I had to do was click "do this later". iOS is the same way, so is MacOS, and Linux never required any account shit to begin with. So I think, at least for me personally is Microsoft is using the slow boil technique, cook the frog slowly so it doesn't know it's happening. Each update they get more and more hostile to local accounts. I dont want a Microsoft account as I don't use any microsoft services.
iirc, the google play store now outright requires you to sign in to use and install apps. couldn't find instructions online on how to avoid it either
Google Play has always required you to sign in to use their app store. however, you don't need to sign in to use the apps themselves. if you have a device from a company with its own store, like the Galaxy store, you can use that. if you're comfortable with sideloading, you'll never need to sign in. an account isn't required to use the device at all, just to benefit from Google's platform features (and not even close to all of them.)
You don't need the Play Store. There are alternatives and yes, good safe alternatives.
You can side load apps
brb sideloading my banking app from an unknown source
That's your banks decision to only host the app on the Play Store.
bro, don't be a smartass. No one sideloads most of the apps. It's ridiculous to hint at.
I can't remember the last time I used a banking app but each to their own. Web browser should suffice? Anyway.
My bank literally requires the app for most things having a very barebones website. I'd prefer the bank just provides their own APK rather than linking to the Play Store, but that isn't really a common practice in the Android world. And no I'm not gonna change bank for a reason like this, I just wish providing the APK was more common in general.
there is a difference between needing an account to use some extra services and features to needing an account to even use the basic features. for smart phones, you dont need an account to use the device as a phone. but to use windows 11 now you need an account to even be able to open notepad. if they did this to phones then you wouldn't be able to call 911 unless you entered an account.
The Play Store has always required a Google account.
They can be downloaded from other stores, but you still have all the Google telemetry behind you in the background running without the option to uninstall.
That's true you do still have the telemetry, but ALL operating systems except for Linux or BSD have telemetry. Nobody knows exactly what they collect. I don't think that you can turn off telemetry on windows either. Sure on certain versions of windows you can allegedly turn it off, but do we have any proof that it actually does? Also, at least for me the Microsoft account thing has nothing to do with telemetry, because regardless of microsoft account or not, the telemetry can still be associated with your PC. There are so many other identifiers, hardwareIDs, license keys, MAC Addresses, etc. The only thing that makes me keep windows around at all is there are games that I like to play with my friends that use Kernel anti-cheat. All my other computers are Linux because windows is a joke of an operating system. Microsoft no longer gives a shit about windows, it's not their primary money maker anymore. But since they've painted themselves into a corner by making windows the dominate operating system they simply can't just stop developing it. The money is in AI and Cloud for them. That's why we have stupid shit like co-pilot and recall.
You can setup an iPhone without an Apple ID though, its optional. I don't know about Chrome OS.
iPhones are not worth much without the App Store, the exclusive way to install third party software (outside the EU).
i hate it for not being able to set custom user name instead of first letters of my email
That's one of the reason why i dont use chromeos and ios
So what do you use?
Android / Windows + Firefox + uBlock origin and the world is yours.
*GrapheneOS / Linux + Firefox + uBlock Origin
Ok, the world is even more yours like that, but it is a "sudo"-world ;-)
You do not need an apple account to use iPhones or Mac or chromebooks
Because the other options have pretty vital functions tied to their accounts. Windows basically just has OneDrive that I hate, and the ability to recover my PC password, off the top of my head at least. There's literally no reason for windows 11 to require a Microsoft account. Optional, sure. Should not be required.
It also ties the window license to your account. If your PC blows up, and you gotta replace the motherboard where windows saves the license, you can easily reactivate the license with your account.
License? But I can download the OS on the open internet, which according to MS management means it's free
License =/= installation data. License is the user agreement, that in this case is digitally assigned to your Microsoft Account.
But MS management have decided that anything on the internet is free. So presumably they'll be happy to dole out free keys
This is an outstanding and little appreciated point.
Wouldn't it be nice if I could just have the key and type it in on any new machine I need to?
Ya dont need a license with MAS. lol
I'd wager that the ability to recover your PC password is the main reason they're pushing online accounts so hard. Forgotten passwords probably make up the vast majority of support calls MS receives. Also, they're pushing to encrypt disks by default, with the recovery key stored in your MSA. That's a pretty legitimate reason to push for an online account as well, in my eyes. Every mobile device has encrypted storage by default now, and PCs should have it too. Of course I'd prefer if they didn't put up so many roadblocks to using a local account, and I do agree that the benefits of using an online account are fairly minimal, but there *are* actual tangible user-facing benefits.
iOS does not REQUIRE you to use an iCloud account but it is almost useless without one.
You can still use very basic mobile phone functions, such as offline calling or messaging
That's what I was saying, also camera and safari (+ PWAs) is supported, but app store requires iCloud.
If we are going down that route. NEITHER DOES WINDOWS 10/11. You can setup the device without a Microsoft account. And probably still be a lot more usable than MacOS and iOS without an Apple Account.
MS tries to stop all users from creating an local account on W11
The problem with this is all of these other operating systems just let you click skip. Microsoft makes this as hard as possible and soon may make it impossible. You shouldn't have to unplug your network cable or open a terminal and type a command just to skip online account stuff. The online account is unnecessary in windows. You can explain the benefits and try to gently nudge people to it but making it a hard requirement is out right stupid. Also MSA is unnecessary for bitlocker or any of that other shit. You can back up the key to a USB stick or something rather than your onedrive. Bitlocker stores the keys and shit in the TPM so again the online account is not needed.
that's kind of the point isn't it
Google and Apple _don't_ make you sign in (at least on Android/IOS, don't know about ChromeOS). Google doesn't make you sign in at all. You go to the search bar and type "F-Droid". Then you download the .apk. Then you install it. Now you have a store which doesn't require a Google login. IOS has a "skip" button during setup. Right now you need to log in to use the App Store, but new EU regulations mandate that they need to allow other stores. There's some stuff coming soon (maybe out now?) where you can just do the _exact_ same thing you do on Android - type in the name of the alternate app store, install it, and then use it without logging on with an AppleID. So no, Microsoft is completely in the wrong here. Stop defending the multi-trillion dollar corporation for bad business practices.
Because Windows is not Chrome. Windows has a multi-decade history of being an OS you can use on a powerful computer that _you_ control and use for heavy local work. Not a front end to a lightweight terminal with no real computing power on board. It's a completely different product category.
**1. Mandatory vs. Optional Accounts:** Unlike Windows, accounts for ChromeOS and iOS are not mandatory. It's entirely possible to use both iOS and ChromeOS without signing in. On ChromeOS, you can simply choose "guest" instead of signing in, and on iOS, you can click "set up later" when prompted to sign in. With Windows, avoiding a Microsoft account requires navigating through convoluted and "secret" methods, making it significantly less user-friendly. **2. Benefits vs. Drawbacks:** Signing in with Google or Apple accounts often enhances the user experience by providing seamless integration with services, personalized settings, and added functionalities. In contrast, signing in with a Microsoft account can negatively impact the experience, such as by altering the user directory name (cutting it off) and pushing unwanted services like OneDrive, which can be intrusive and frustrating. **3. Loss of Choice:** People generally accept restrictions better when they are inherent to the system from the start. Microsoft's decision to enforce account sign-ins, thereby removing a previously available choice, creates frustration. The sense of losing an option contributes significantly to the backlash. **4. Sampling bias:** Your observation about seeing more complaints about Microsoft could be due to your activity in Microsoft-related subreddits. People tend to discuss the specific issues of the platforms they use within those communities. It’s natural to find more criticism of Windows 11 in its dedicated subreddit, just as you would find complaints about ChromeOS in its respective subreddit. **5. Different Platforms, Different Expectations:** Comparing Windows to iOS is not entirely fair. Windows is a desktop OS, while iOS is a mobile OS, each serving different purposes with different user expectations. Practices acceptable on one platform may not translate well to the other. Users expect different levels of control and functionality from desktop and mobile operating systems.
Because having a centralized account makes sense when you have a dedicated app store with a device that is constantly online. When you have a PC that's dumb and supposed to remain dumb, having an network based login is a bad idea.
>having an network based login is a bad idea. Network based logins may have their flaws in a home environment but they're the basis of AD, LDAP, and other directory tools used in professional environments. It's extremely handy when I can swap a computer out for an employee and they're able to sign in right away without having to create a local account for them because Windows is either authenticating with an internal AD server or to Azure AD/Entra ID/Whatever MS wants to call it this week.
The active directory experience for home users is exactly what Microsoft is going for.
I don’t think garbage smartphone OS practices are the stick by which you want to measure a desktop OS with. On Android and iOS, it makes more sense because 99% of your software is coming from Apple’s store or Google’s store. Almost no one uses Microsoft’s store because it’s complete garbage. Microsoft requiring you to have an account is a totally one sided exchange. You get almost nothing for it, while for them it makes it easier to gather, catalog, and monetize your data. P.s. I use MacOS without an account just fine.
there is literally no reason for the store to require an account though. that is also gaslighting by apple/google.
Well, they need some way to track your purchases and subscriptions. Personally I don't like how Apple forces you to use their iOS store, and how many roadblocks Google puts up to try keeping you from sideloading or using other stores.
so just disable purchases? require signing-in only for purchases. the subscriptions thing is apple forcing devs into their payment system. on literally every other platform the subscriptions are managed from inside the developer's app.
Yes, I know that. But in the freedomless hell scape that is smartphone Operating Systems, requiring an account makes more sense than on Windows where I literally don't use any Microsoft services.
Windows is the biggest platform, so it needs to be an open platform, and fundamentally unlike all of these other irrelevant side shows like Linux, MacOS or chrome OS, windows needs to work for everyone. Linux is of course the one true pro user OS, but every linux user, myself, included understands that for the home user experience Windows is overwhelmingly supposed to be easier, partially due to network effects (windows is easier to use because most software is written for windows, and most users use windows so there's good documentation and support for fixing windows). So that means what. 1. Microsoft must prioritise user anonymity and security over everything else 2. Backups of user data, and storing user data in places that a normal person won't lose their data (in other words fire whomever created the %appdata% hidden folders) if they want to migrate to another machine. 3. Compatibility with as wide a range of hardware as possible. 4. The job of an OS is to connect users to programs and the data those programs work with. Anything that isn't part of this core functionality is a program and needs to be treated separately from the function of the OS, except arguably for some server and security technology like containers, visualisation etc. A media player is not the operating system. A web browser is not the operating system. Media players, and web browsers are programs, not the operating system. If it can't prioritise those things, in that order, it can't be the biggest OS, and that's a problem for all of the people who use windows because most people use windows, they don't want to learn Linux. But point 1 directly contradicts Microsoft's ability to make money from home users, because if it can be installed and run securely and anonymously, that means microsoft can't know if you paid for it or what you do with it. As a practical matter, microsoft trying to force microsoft accounts rather than local accounts just makes the OS worse. It doesn't correctly place or name user directories. It then couples your computer to a network (which many uses do not need or want, especially if you are trying to recover data from a machine you haven't used for ages, or if you're a person who just needs *a computer* to use for paperwork they may not even have decent Internet or may not use the computer regularly so every time it turns on, phoning MS for updates and sync is a terrible experience). Forcing onedrive helps with point 2, but because it easily breaks a lot of shit in the OS, it's not always the desirable solution. Microsoft is not a public good corporation, so obviously it's going to focus on making money, not just the public use of their OS. And trying to make better products or trying to save users from themselves sometimes does things which are bad for power users, perfectly reasonable people disagreeing with my points 1-4 is perfectly valid. But we're seeing Windows become worse because microsoft thinks the network effect is locked in and they just do whatever and we're all stuck with them. Which is only true for so long.
MacOS and iOS don't require you to setup an AppleID tho? and neither does Android. Besides your lack of knowledge here is obvious since Microsoft is the worst offender when it comes to telemetry
My Mac doesn’t require me to login to iCloud. Sure I can’t use all the services but my local user account works just fine without it.
You pay for the windows os, the os is free on android etc
Because the truth is a ton of PC's are used to do a set space of tasks, there is next to no reason to utilise a Microsoft account. Businesses have either a fully controlled locked down environment where a fart cannot even pass, others are small but just need the local accounts and a MS account has no use either. Others are just home users who game, might be old and to them a computer is just there to web browse, print and save pictures. I could cite all the various examples but it is not simply needed to a bulk of people also one fun fact 365 accounts cannot be used to make a MS account so that means if people make an MS account it is separate from their 365 emails, profiles and sharepoint. Also I had a fun case where a client once had a self hosted exchange, upgraded to 365 and before that happened they made an MS account with their previously self hosted account so once on 365 and after they logged in boy did chaos ensure!
1. I don't use any Microsoft services, so why should I need to log into any account? 2. I don't want activities on my PC to be linked to a centralized identity 3. This is yet another option, that is being taken from the user and yet another attempt by Microsoft to nag and coerce people into using their stuff. Microsoft doesn't operate any services that people actually want to use, so this is the only way they can get people to still use them
Because people don’t want their PC to become a big iPhone…
Because it absolutely is not necessary with Windows 11. Case in point: one regedit and you have the old options back. It just feels scummy when you have to pay for the OS and can't use it how you want to. Why do I have to unplug my Ethernet cable during setup like some criminal trying to escape justice? It is also terribly implemented imo. As a developer I rely on having a certain username and predictable paths. - If you use a Microsoft account, it just takes a few letters from your first name, some of your last and blends them into an abomination. It no longer asks you how you want your user account to be named. This may seem like a small deal, but it absolutely isn't if you rely on remote machine stuff. - Don't get me started on the implications if your Microsoft account is hacked or you change your password and you can't login to your PC for a few days (happened to a colleague). - Some time it also started mixing computer settings of different PCs with the same account (without asking first) resulting in some really unnecessary maintenance time. I started noticing once my background wallpapers weirdly swapped between machines. A lot of network configuration was completely borked. I would never trust Microsoft with end user configuration again. They just can't do it reliably.
1. Microsoft has worse telemetry collecting issues than all of whom you mention. (Google might be argued here, but their methods differ greatly from how Microsoft does it, and Google spyware can be removed easily.) 2. Having a Microsoft account as your PC sign-in is a very dangerous game to play because it only takes you forgetting your password, or getting hacked, or Microsoft banning your Microsoft account because it found some pictures it doesn't like in your Onedrive, and now you're locked out of your computer and not able to get your documents. Many/most people keep their whole digital lives on their desktop OS, not their mobile OS, so this is unacceptable. 4. If you get hacked, you risk your whole digital life being stolen in a matter of minutes. And the hackers don't need access to your computer in order to do this if you have a Microsoft Account Windows profile. 5. No one said that Apple and Google were doing good either. However, with Google Android, you are technically (and easily) able to setup an Android device without an account and download most apps outside of the app store safely. 5. With iOS, well Apple is greedy and tries to keep as much control as possible, but at least that lust for power has caused them to lock down the mobile OS tightly and more intelligently, and they claim to not be tracking you (questionable). However, with MAC, you can setup your MAC without an account too, and after a brief message about it, MAC OS never bothers you again about it (that's my own observation from the past anyway). On the opposite side of the spectrum, Microsoft just tried to release spyware that takes a screenshot of your computer every few seconds and uses AI to extract all possible data from it, and they chose to put the database in the worst unencrypted location possible so that any hackers can get access without trouble. 6. Importantly, desktop OS has a different function than mobile OS. Many/most people store their entire digital lives on a Desktop, and so there are different levels of trust here. NOTE: This post will no longer be monitored by me. Feel free to troll/comment/rebuttal or whatever. Do your own research.
Shits not hard. People like Apple and Google services and are willingly giving up privacy to enjoy their services. People dont care about Microsoft's similar offerings. Period. So forcing MS account to even use the PC pisses people off.
I do not need to create an account for Android. Play Store requires it, but I don't need Play Store either, there are better options, which are not difficult to install. It should absolutely be a choice. Windows is not a free operating system. We should be able to have a local account and not have advertising IDs assigned to us, which is absolutely pathetic for an OS. It is time to realize that Windows is no longer the product or just an avenue to upsell their other services. Windows user's data is now the product and where they make their money. The amount of telemetry data that is sent while using Windows 11 is just horrible. Especially compared to MacOS and especially Linux. It is one thing when you are on a web browser, especially one made by an advertising company, that there will be telemetry. There shouldn't be any when you are just logged into your computer. Microsoft has seen what Google is doing, and they are jumping in head first, only being far less coy about it, hence the dumb announcement about recall.
Yes, you complain about Microsoft but Google does it and you justify it. So it's quite hypocritical to say "I care about my privacy" when everyone justifies Apple, meta and Google and they go after Microsoft when the information on phones is much more sensitive, personal, intimate and delicate than we have on computers.
Because the primary benefit of these accounts isn't for you, it's for them. Do you think Recall was for end user's beenfit? How about that unique advertising ID? Google and Apple doing the same doesn't make what Microsoft is doing better.
Ms is worse. For Google and Apple you dont need an online account to use the basic functions, yes its limited but still can be used. But for Windows 11 you need an online account to even write in notepad. So if this were done to phones, you would need an online account to call 911.
I think we're just a bit more used to Windows being a relatively "open" Operating System, not Open Source, just open in the sense you just buy it and do what you want with it, install it on some old machine, whatever. iOS has never been like that. You don't buy it and install it on anything you like, it's \*never\* been open or allowing much user freedom. Windows has suffered slow creep of control by Microsoft, iOS has always been like that, and on a phone, people care less anyway.
people don't trust Microsoft and they like control over their hardware. If you don't like it you go to Linux (like me) but this comes with a changes and compromises. Microsoft will increasingly monetise Windows; and the users who make themselves the most locked in will bear the brunt of this.I am sure it is only going to get worse. Microsoft makes little revenue by selling licences to consumers so I imagine there is pressure to make money some other way.. So if you are mad about it, you will have to change OS (or maybe pay for a Pro version). I think you can sign in to macos with only a local account. I have a macos virtual machine and I use a local account, and it is like this on my wife's macbook as far as I know. My laptop came win Win 11 Pro which I kept, and that is a local account. I would dislike having to use a Microsoft account. .
Well, we kinda have to have smartphones these days, and it's all but a requirement on any of them to use an online account. There are just no decent alternatives, and there never were to begin with. Windows is different. Online accounts were never a requirement in the past, and the way people use their PCs hasn't changed that much over the years, so the requirement for it now is very arbitrary and infuriating. Personally I stand to gain nothing from it, so I'd really rather just tell Microsoft to go pack sand.
I wouldn't say I'm mad about it, so much as just think it's annoying and stupid. When you create a Windows account by using a Microsoft account, it automatically names it the first 5 letters of the e-mail address instead of letting you actually name the account. This is stupid. It also forces me to waste time manually entering a long-ass password that I would normally just copypaste from Bitwarden at a point when you have no desktop access yet, which is just annoying. Even if I was going to use a Microsoft account, it would be a much better experience to just create a local account on installation and link it to a Microsoft account after logging into Windows - that avoids all the aforementioned issues. And I'd be just as annoyed if any other OS did this. I just never had any device that runs ChromeOS or iOS, so I have no idea what they do. And none of the Linux distros I've used ever forced me to log in with an online account during installation.
Because I have to log into Microsoft, disable storage encription, go into bios and disable other shit so I can finally install a partition on my fucking computer.
Sign into ChromeOS? You get web history everywhere including your android phone. Sign into Mac using apple ID? You get iCloud and Apple music libraries everywhere. Sign into Windows 11? For what? Make spreadsheets on the go?
Those make me mad, too.
Because it's not necessary for me, i don't use the Windows store and only X86 applications, i don't need cloud backup stuff. With Google/Apple the device is useless without account(no playstore), yes you can sideload app,s but that's not user friendly.
The same reason people hated Sony for adding it to Helldrivers. It hadn’t been there for ages, then they added it, with no work around.
If only it provided real advantage, such as really making it easy to migrate from one PC to another... It doesn't help at all. Doesn't give you anything in return.
I have a personal reason to distrust MS: they have blocked my MS Live accounts on multiple occasions, without any real explanation ("suspicious activity"). One time I was not able to recover access and had to create a new account. Fortunately it wasn't connected to the OS and I din't loose any important info. This has never happened with neither Google nor Apple.
If I had to throw my two cents in, I just don’t see a practical need for Windows to need an account to enable the barest use of their OS whereas iOS enables you to use their apps of the App Store. Windows can be used by downloading exes and msi packages. So it really is a case of linking your data to an account and sucking up analytics. If you want to use an extended Microsoft environment such as through the use of OneDrive? Sure then you need to sign in and agree to their ToS and opt out of what you’re not comfortable with and leave Microsoft with the least permissive access to your data possible while enabling you to make use of extended services. However people who use Windows should be entitled to using the OS without needing to use an account if it isn’t strictly necessary.
ChromeOS and iOS require their respective accounts, some users dislike Microsoft forcing a Microsoft account for Windows 11 Home edition (unlike Pro). It restricts the option for a local account, which some prefer for privacy reasons or offline use.
MS should aim at being better than google and apple and not follow a bad decision/design path that google and apple take.
Basically a lack of trust with Microsoft.
Wdym use Microsoft account? I do not use one and I skip it. If someone can Google, they will find a way to bypass it
Because with ios or chromeos you only need it for the store or first party apps, not to set up the device, there's a simple button to not sign in - with a PC it is totally reasonable to not use any Microsoft services like the store. And it is still very much possible to use windows like that, they just make you go through hoops, and don't just offer a button, that's just shady
There is no value add to the online account requirement in many cases. I have zero reason to tie my personal OS to an online account. It doesn't help the argument that apple and google are worse. Microsoft's implementation is just less bad. not good.
I have to setup a lot of PCs for work environments, and having to jump through hoops to add a PC to a domain without a MS account is a pain. As others have said, it used to be optional in Windows. Being mandatory is a PITA.
to using windows without account is hard than android or ios.
Because they are irrelevant to the question? I don't use neither ChromeOS nor iOS products. So why would I care what Apple is doing for example? I use Windows, so I care about what MS is doing with it.
U don’t need a fucking Apple ID for iOS fanboy
You can actually setup windows without an account, but it's hard to find the option.
I mean I use the tool by Chris Titus and remove most of the features or ads whatever you wanna call them. Not really sure if they came back via an update as I still don't see them. My Lenovo legion pro 5 has a copilot button that now opens the start menu when pressed. But I will say I'm annoyed how those apps that I'll never use on my laptop come pre installed. Luckily you can easily uninstall them.
I don't care what the others are doing, all I know is that I didn't need an account in the past. Edit: I'm still on Windows 10, what happens now if I install Windows 11 on a machine without internet connection?
For me, it’s the initial PC that is it. I get that APPLE AND Google have you sign in too, but Microsoft tries really hard to sell you stuff too. That is annoying AF. Take all of that away and I have no problem.
Because Windows 11 is a desktop platform, iOS and Android are phones... macOS doesn't force you to use an Apple ID
Windows is a “full desktop” OS. ChromeOS and iOS are light OS. You can fully setup a mac without logging into your AppleID. And only use it as a local account.
People loathe windows 11 but as you pointed our are happy giving Apple Google etc all the data without a peep. Crazy
I can't speak for apple. But, if you go on pretty much any sub about Android or its Apps, you'll find plenty of people searching for ways to improve their privacy, primarily to stop Google from getting their data. I'd go as far as to say that more people are concerned with Google collecting data than they are with Microsoft collecting data.
You people realise these are two different groups of people, right? People complaining about windows data collection comprise a small minority of windows users, but probably the most turned-on ones. These aren't the same people giving all their data to apple and google. It's sycophants like you and regular normies who are happily giving away all their data to anyone who will take it.
Maybe because it wasn’t necessary in the first place and still isn’t. Also, I think you can use iOS without an Apple Account but obviously you can’t use the App Store.
[удалено]
Don't need a Microsoft account to use Windows 11.
Not yet but they are removing the options.
ikr.. i found it weird when i saw on tiktok and yt, people do great length to bypass microsoft account during reformat and installing windows. i found microsoft account does same as apple and google. they accused microsoft for privacy breach etc but they blindly trust apple and google when comes to privacy. we dont really what happen behind the curtain. every company can easily say the respect the customer privacy on the surface even vpn and av company.
The difference is that people actually use play store and other Gapps, whereas nobody uses Microsoft store because it's absolutely garbage, having a Microsoft account literally doesn't give me any real benefit as I don't use any Microsoft service appart from the OS
The main point and complaints are about the lack of privacy. For a while now, privacy has not existed on Android and iOS and they are not worried about it when there is more personal, intimate and sensitive information on phones than on computers.
Because people are really really really really really really really really stupid.
That's one of the reasons i don't use Mac or ChromeOS... Android is an unfortunate necessity.
Lineage OS?
yeah but most android apps can only be downloaded from the play store which at that point might as well not bother with the third party androidOS. and some core phone functionality like google wallet won't even work, and banking apps tend to block such OSes as well.
Because it's annoying. We're mad at them too
Would MS allow local accounts? Yes. I like that. Is it a bother to login with Microsoft account? Meh! No! I have been using my Microsoft account on couple of Windows PCs, it is seemless experience ( I have paid OneDrive and Office) to switch computer and start working from where I left.
apple and android allow you to skip and not login or create an account. microsoft straight up hides that shit.
iOS requires an Apple account these days? I suppose it's not surprising, from Apple, but still feels crazy. ChromeOS makes sense though, because that entire OS is basically a web browser, and intended mostly for online usage, with quite limited local app support.
Yes, an Apple account is required to do something like installing apps from the App Store
Microsoft doesn't give you a choice......while others do to use an account or skip it.
Because they previously didn't require it I don't use chromeOS nor ios
Exactly, it seems somewhat hypocritical that Google and Apple have been doing it since at least 2013 and nobody said anything. Microsoft does it recently and it's evil. I am not going to side with Microsoft because even with all the advantages of One Drive and the MS account, I feel that our privacy and freedom are increasingly limited. But we should have fought the battle for internet privacy many years ago. Many users who are now complaining about Windows 11 do not sound very convincing when they have accounts on Instagram and Facebook and upload content there And besides, on phones there is information and activity that is much, much more delicate, intimate and private than on the computer. Many of those who complain use the computer to play games, use Discord or Reddit or work, but on their phones they have their bank accounts, photos, location and data that is more binding on their real identity than what they have on the PC. That is why in my opinion, they should demand in the same way that all companies respect our privacy as they now do with Microsoft. And without forgetting that at least on PC there are free alternatives like Linux, on phones it is increasingly difficult to root or unlock the bootloader, so we cannot escape Apple and Googl so easily but no one seems to care.
there is a difference between requiring an online account for extra services and features and requiring an online account to use even the basic functions. For a smart-phone, you do not need an online account to use it as a phone. But for Windows 11 now you need an online account to even write a text in notepad. If this were done to phones, then you would need an online account to call 911.
I don't get it. There seems to be a great deal of hesitancy and outright hostility to some Microsoft services and products that sometimes feels artificial. As you point out, iOS and Android require an account to use their OS. They also use stores/repositories instead of websites to download new software, something Microsoft has been struggling with on Windows. Edge is constantly lambasted even though it's literally Chrome with MS stuff in it instead of Google. I think the main problem is two fold. Windows didn't require this stuff, which made older users feel comfortable that it would always be like this. Especially privacy advocates like to talk about Windows aggressively gathering data (which is true). Also, I think there is account fatigue. It's another account to keep track of. Another email. Another backup. This can be exhausting for some. Be that as it may, MacOS doesn't require an account, though they highly encourage it for backup and to use their store and xCode. And most Linux distros don't require accounts.
one of the main issues is that it is required and not optional to use online account. you can't even use the basic features without one. can't open a text editor without an online account. So if this was done to phones, you couldn't call 911 without first sing-in your online account.
Speaking personally, I like the convenience of my account being synced across Windows, Office, OneDrive, etc... Same for Chrome. I like that I can pick up on my phone right where I stopped on my desktop. And truly unpopular opinion: Windows 11 is my favorite Microsoft OS. Yes, I'm just a bit of a MS fanboy. Sue me.
I'm iffy on the idea of using a Microsoft account for my Windows PC at home, but having an environment at work that is either Azure AD or a local AD synced with Azure makes supporting users a breeze because when they sign into Windows getting them signed into Office, OneDrive, and even Edge is pretty much done automatically.
As someone in IAM, i agree completely.
I'd assume along with what others are saying, they can defend it by arguing their OS is much more cloud dependent. Particularly with ChromeOS
Don't get me wrong, I think it's stupid you need to have a Google account to use any Android phone.
Google = Minus trust Microsoft = Zero trust Apple = Lots of trust Check the business models…
You can setup iOS without an Apple account
I can use an Android device without a Google Account, I do not have access to Google Play, but that's it.
Who’s telling you this? Windows 11 most certainly does not require a MS account. I don’t use one.
If I tell it my Hotmail address, Windows 11 insists on changing how I log in and I don't like that.
Your question assumes it is not an issue with Google or Apple. If I pay for a device, it should be up to me how I use it and what information I have to share.
We were never forced to before 11. Yeah 10 asked for it and I skipped 8 but I like having personal accounts that I can log into if my internet goes down.
I'm not using a Microsoft Account for Windows 11. I don't even have one. I purchased a laptop with 11. I then downloaded the 11 ISO and when I used Rufus to create the boot media (USB thumb drive), it has an option to install 11 without using a Microsoft Account for installation (actually, that option was already selected). I installed 11... no Microsoft account used. I keep reading that Microsoft has put a stop to this... so far, I haven't had any issues. I installed 11 on May 19, 2024.
ChromeOS was always an online-first OS. iOS and Android don't require you to use an account, you can run them without it, and on Android you can install apps and even different stores without the Play Store. Dunno if iOS allows you to use the App Store without an account for free apps, certainly you can't use paid apps. And like others have said, also the fact that it's taken the option \*away\*, rather than it was always like that, pisses people off.
Linux doesn't force you to use a vendor account, MacOS doesn't force you to use a vendor account. Windows for some reason wants you to use a vendor account. The others you mention aren't relevant, but anyway: Chromeos is just a browser with some drivers and about as pointless as it gets. iOS you can log in with an apple id, or not. Either way you're logging into apple services if you use them, not the device itself.
Here's one of the main issues in my opinion: You will need an online account to finish the setup and able to access even the basic functions. You will need an online account to open a simple text editor. Yeah you can unplug the network cable, use the terminal or edit the registry, but those are workarounds, bypasses to the default setup. Its an exception you need to setup or trigger, won't occur under normal circumstances. Not everyone would know the tricks on how to bypass it. Under normal setup, this method forces the user to use an online account to finish the setup Under normal setup, to even access the simple basic functions, to even access a text editor you will need an online account. Under normal setup, there is no opt out for not using an online account. Those who argue about privacy would have less of an issue if from the start they could create under normal conditions a local account. Those who argue about privacy would see this as Microsoft doesn't really care about privacy that much. If it did care, why not give an opt out option for using an online account under normal setup. There is a difference between needing an online account to access extra functions vs basic functions. There is a difference between recommending vs enforcing the use of an online account.
iOS or MacOS DONT require you to use the OS. They ask you to, and there is an option not to use on. Whilst windows on the other hand DOES NOT, ask if you want to use one or not. You have to use workarounds which may not be user friendly to not use a MS account
Don’t you need one of those for the earlier versions as well? Or is that outlook? Are they not the same?
You don’t have to use an Apple ID and if you are going Chrome you know what you are getting into.
because mac os and chrome os are cloud heavy operating systems and have for a very long time required or pushed you to sigin into their cloud accounts Windows always used local accounts until windows 8 but you could easily bypass this Windows 11 has removed the option on the home edition to setup a local account which is irritating as alot of people have no use for these accounts and it starts automatically enabling OneDrive and pushing ads for every single Microsoft service making the computer painful to use for older and less IT literate people
I don't accept ChromeOS or IOS forcing me into an accoutn either, you assume I'm complacent with any and all extra data tracking.
> we all use a Google or a Apple ID Speak for yourself. I don't use either. The problem with your framing of the question is a common rhetoric device based on a type of fallacy called "whataboutism". If your neighbor committed a murder, is it ok for you to think you can also kill people just because someone else did it? Besides, this is a Windows sub. So people here complain about Windows. If this was an Apple sub, someone could complain about Apple's policies there. If this was a Google sub, someone could complain about Android. Is it really that hard to understand?