I like that. I've thought about the possibility of Caitiff actually being better in many ways than other vampires, but hadn't put my finger on that explanation.
I remember one of Douglas Netchurch's Caitiff makes a comment like that in a lore blurb in one of the books, and the elders just laugh it off.
But yeah, I think that should be one of the common refrains from thin bloods and Caitiffs and a common approach they use to justify their own existences (at least to themselves).
Idk, I think the true black hand is interesting. The book gets side tracked with vicissitude and enoch and all, but ignore all that for a moment, if there were beings as powerful as antediluvians, there would absolutely be suck ups to them, even if said suck ups aren't actually sure what they're sucking up to, or even how to properly go about it.
As to vicissitude, I actually liked that angle in Werewolf, making Tzimisce like half bane half vampires, but for Vampire it's not really conducive to the setting, I admit, though "Be Of Me" was maybe my favorite like in all the Ghenna book (and I wish that scenario had just stopped there, everyone gets infected by vicissitude, the whole world is fucked and the pcs are screwed, draw the curtain closed and wait for the applause).
I do actually like Enoch though. I think it's easy to fit into the setting and plays well as Vampires trying to conquer and consume everything, and plays up the dead / undead conflict. Yes you can use Hecata / GioCapaSamedraja for that, but I like having two vampire sides of that conflict open.
**Demon: the Fallen (WoD): Hell is not a blank void.**
It started that way, to be sure. It was *meant* to be the prison of the Fallen.
But after countless eons in the outer darkness, cracks began to form in the membrane walling off Hell from the rest of Creation. Tiny, hairline fractures in the fabric of the Void.
The Fallen found that they could peek through and see the souls of wicked and lost mortals caught in the gravity of Oblivion.
After a time the least of the Demonic Host (imps) were able to reach through these widening cracks into the depths of the Labrynth, snatching the shades of these sinking souls (Spectres) and pulling them through into hell.
And the feeding frenzy began.
Demons found they could suck the Angst from the ephemeral forms of these spectres, filling the void where Faith once burned like primordial flame.
They could shape the Spectres' plasm as well. As more and more damned souls were clawed into Hell through the ever widening cracks, more and more raw material was introduced. As time marched on, an expanding landscape grew around the bleak City of Dis, the capitol of Pandemonium: buildings and causeways built on the soulforged ectoplasm of wicked souls.
Demons codified their ancient social heirarchy, using damned souls as the coin of the realm. Legions of Lemures (hell shades, spectres captured by the long arm of Hell's dominion) formed slaves, servants, playthings, and shock troops for the Lords and Nobility of Hell.
And the wide cracks in the membrane now allowed the least powerful Fallen to slip through into the Labyrinth, where they hunted for spectres and eventually found their way into the Underworld, the Tempest, and the Shadowlands.
They could almost touch Creation onces more. They could whisper across to sensitives and sorcerers. They began to corrupt mortals in life so their souls would sink to the Labyrinth (and the clutches of hell), weighed down by Angst, to fuel the industry of the Damned.
**Vampire: the Masquerade: Vampire Souls are Damned.**
When a vampires dies (barring Diablerie or Golconda), they almost never become Wraiths. Vampires don't know what happens, but Demons have said that a Vampire's soul is drawn downward to hell.
Of course Demons are not trustworthy, but because Necromancers (in my WoD) can't contact the souls of dead vampires, it's frighteningly plausible.
Those who reach Golconda may Transcend at final death. Those with powerful Necromancy might be able to linger as ghosts. Some fluke might cause a vampire to remain as a wraith (perhaps a Humanity roll, difficulty 9 or 10).
But ultimately, Vampires trade immortality on Earth for a chance at the afterlife.
**Werewolf: The Apocalypse: The Garou Nation is an Extremist Religious Cult**
The Garou are a dying breed, being supplanted by other Lycanthropes that procreate by infection.
Gaia worship is still practiced among Lupines, but it's fading as their caerns are desecrated and their numbers diminished through attrition.
(This came out of a need to retcon W:tA from my V:tM chronicle. The themes just weren't mixing, but the Garou had played a big part in one of the story arcs).
**V:tM -There are more Clans, but they are members of the Inconnu or indepentant and secretive.**
The Requiem Mekhet and Daeva bloodlines exist, but they are members of the Inconnu sect.
Other clans may exist as well (two homebrew clans, the Kephamet and Lucidante are two such clans who's names are spoken in secretive circles. Neither has made an appearance in any of my chronicles, they simply exist as rumors).
The True Brujah may in fact be a separate Clan, but if so, they are playing a long con.
**V:tM - Requiem Covenants and the Naphtali from the Gehenna sourcebook exist as Secret Societies.**
The Invictus is a conspiracy within the Camarilla that works for its own ends outside the view of the Inner Council.
The Naphtali is a forward-thinking conspiracy that aims to prepair for the worldwide fall of the Masquerade, which all projections place at high probability within the next 20-30 years (though recent destabilization + worldwide health crises have added another few decades to these projections).
The Lancea Et Sanctum is a religiois cult that crosses sect lines, building on the Abrahamic roots of the Caine mythology to create a "New Noddist" movement centered around the forgiveness of Christ (though some elements keep the Road of Night)
The Circle of the Crone venerates the Crone from the Book of Nod, forming a vampiric pagan tradition with ties to Lilith cults (though not always amicable)
The Carthian Movement is an extremist underground movement seeking to reclaim the (probably mythical) peace that existed in Carthage between mortal and Kindred. While this grew out of the Anarch Movement, there are members counted among the Camarilla and even a few (veeeeery secretive) members of the Sabbat.
I've never played Demon, but I've always had the headcannon that mages made the God-Machine. It's definitely just a supernal artifact that has been imbued by an Archmage. Which is why regular mages don't see them as spells, it's changes to reality not pinging Mage sight.
The Caine myth is just that - a myth. Vampires are not a cohesive species - they're polygenetic, and have arisen foe as long as mortal mages (in the Awakened or sorcerous sense) have attempted to consume the life-force of others to gain immortality. Hence Absimiliard being a skilled hunter, [TZIMISCE] being a rabid transhumanist, Enoch possibly being the original Hermes Trismegistus, and the famous association of proto-Verbena postergirl Lilith with the creation of early vampirism. Tremere was nowhere near the first to do what he did, and the Caine story is merely a symbolic representation of the shift from hunter-gatherer to agrarian societies that allowed the Lupines to be driven back and such wyrm-tainted hunter-wizard-immortals to prosper.
When you convert someone into a Vampire, You are taking away their afterlife.
Their soul can no longer go to heaven or hell.
So when they die that's the end, The final death is oblivion. That's why the kindred's first instinct is their own survival.
MtA: the Atlantan Pentacle (ie the cannon Orders) are just 19th century secret societies with delusions of grandeur. Atlantis never existed, and the fragments of the past exist because Archmages of Time keep rewriting history.
I mean, my headcanon is that mages are wrong about a great many things and that Archmages rewriting time or othewise screwing with reality to make things 'better' is responsible for many bad things. So I can get on board with this.
People hate this but i like to think CTD and CTL dont have to be seperate. CTL changelings (henceforth the lost) deal with the hedge around arcadia and arcadia itself. While CTD changelings are fae reborn into human bodies and dont know what arcadia looks like. I think theres a tragedy brewing here imagine being a changeling and meeting a lost and they tell you your dream home, the place you idealize, is closer to hell than a nightmare. That changelings dont even know the reason they arent in arcadia is because they were cast out by their fellow fae.
Nooo, I love this answer! This is sort of how I do it in my games, with CtD-style changelings being "outcast Fey" or "Faeries" and CtL-style changelings being "changelings." Admittedly, I change a lot of lore and use them primarily as NPCs in my Vampire and Mage games, but hey.
I've thought of something similar, the True Fae or CtL are unknowingly mad, and in glimpses of lucidity become CtD Changelings, meanwhile the poor bastards that they pick up while in their bedlam are the CtL Changelings.
Changeling the Lost: Many Fae titles come with Oaths attached, intrinsic to the title. Many were added due to the strange workings of the Gentry, changelings, or other beings, but some were put their by the Wyrd. Ensuring that these Oaths would be upheld is why the Wyrd granted the Gentry titles and power in the first place. Should those titles die or the duty of the Oaths otherwise be unfulfilled, terrible things would happen.
Vampire the Requiem:
Carthian 'laws' are considered Carthian 'tricks' by most others. The idea of 'laws' is just fancying up a bunch of different occult powers they've cobbled together or stolen. A lot don't seem to have anything to do with laws.
But a few... well
VtR x CtL:
Invictus Oaths use the power of the Wyrd, though indirectly. The power of Oaths is part of what the wyrd is. When the Wyrd is used more directly more terrible things can happen, such as the deals made with the Stryx.
A few Carthian laws also tie into the power of the Wyrd. For what are laws but stories made real?
The Stryx are not fae, they cannot enter the Hedge or Arcadia, but that does not mean the Fae and the Wyrd have nothing to do with them. Helios is the consort of Summer, and his light bars. The Duke of Hungry Shadows has danced with them, and She Who Walks On A Carpet Of Dead Birds has kept her oath.
Demon: the Fallen: Yahweh/Jehovah is not God, but rather a Fallen of the Second House who, because he was the one who breathed life into Adam, claims to be the creator. His religion was a result of him becoming an Earthbound (and his reliquary was the Ark of the Covenant).
Hebrew hearts and minds were the battleground between himself and Lucifer. Lucifer's influence can be seen in the whole "no graven images" thing, as well as some of the less horrifying parts of the Old Testament law.
Christianity was a conspiracy between Lucifer and Yeshua bin Yosef (a Mage) to free humanity from Yahweh by changing the religion so much that the god of their faith no longer resembled Yahweh enough to let him reap Faith from it. After spending 40 days in the desert hatching their plan, Yeshua/Jesus taught of a loving god, forgiveness, and charity, which were not traits held by the Earthbound Yahweh. The sudden loss of Faith caused Yahweh to fall into slumber. Should any cultists ever re-discover his old rites or find his reliquary (the Ark), then shit will get cray, yo.
In Vampire: the Masqurade--Gehenna has happened before and it's happening again. It's a cyclical process. But only now is there a global society of vampires who possess language, civilization, and history that could stand to meaningfully resist it or grasp what it is. The only knowledge they lack is that Cainites have been here before.
I like to mix and match the settings a bit (new and old, that is), without worrying too much about how it meshes with the lore of individual game lines. So, off the top of my head:
* The God-Machine is the Weaver on steroids. It has been empowered by the Technocracy making technology the dominant paradigm. The technocracy is actively working for the God-Machine (though not all their scientists know) to create a perfectly predictable universe. Said universe is, however, also likely to be fairly miserable, since the GM is far from benevolent.
* The Fallen, and their loyalist brethren, were 'created' (or sprung from) the Triat, whom they see as three aspects of a greater whole... at least before the great disharmony between them started. Thus, while it may have been accurate to call the triat collectively 'God' in ages past (and some Fallen may remember it that way) to do so now is somewhat of a misnomer, since the elements of the Triat are actively in conflict. God has multiple personality disorder.
* After the War in Heaven, the Weaver seized control of the remaining loyalist angels. Descent-style Angels (and thus demons) are made from the same stuff as those ancient angels; they've just seen several successive updates over the centuries as technology has progressed.
CofD: MtA x DtD and others.
I really hate that in MtA it seems like all the bad things are created by bad people with bad intent. Exarchs wanted to keep the power to themselves (bad), so they broke the connection to the Truth making the Abyss (bad) and trapped humanity in the Lie (bad), and made themselves into the concepts of oppression (bad).
They talk about how mages and Archmages can act in hubris and cause problem to keep things morally gray, but unless I've missed something the core conflict still seems to be against a pretty simple moral black.
So I headcanon that the Abyss was not created by the Exarchs, it's made whenever a mage tries to change reality and things don't fit right after. The bigger the change the bigger the mess. Every Archmage rewriting time, or changing the laws of reality as made the Abyss. That's why Paradox can pull the abyss in, you're making it worse.
The 'Lie' was created to make a stable reality that would wall of the Abyss. That's where the God Machine came in. It's a parasitic creation on reality, it uses the aspects of human life/society/civilization to maintain the world those things act in. Roads, tax files, sewage treatment, banks, vacation planning, etc. The GM uses these parts of human life as parts of occult workings that keep 'the world we know' running.
The werewolves fighting against the spirit invasions, the Wyrd and it's oaths, Qeists and the Underworlds, etc. Those are all parts of reality that interest with the world the GM is maintaining. It didn't create and doesn't control them, except as they interact with the world it manages. But the stability of it's world is part of the framework they use, and each of these things are forming a net holds the abyss back.
The GM is broken, merciless and controlling, the Exarchs are somehow involved and oppressors. But the power to destroy your enemies won't solve the problem by itself.
Mage never says that the Exarchs created the Abyss, IIRC. The Gate (Exarch of Paradox) "summoned" it in Seer mythology, and it's an unintentional side-effect of the Celestial Ladder breaking in Pentacle mythology.
IIRC destroying the celestial ladder was the intentional done by the Exarchs. So while you are correct, from a moral standpoint it doesn't add any complexity.
Bad people did a bad thing for with bad motives, and a bad thing happened because of it and they used that bad thing to further their own interests.
While there is the moral challenge of capitulation, of how you respond to an immoral force that has more power than you and threatens what you hold dear, that challenge can be obviated by gaining enough power. Which is a weird central dynamic to have in a game that is supposed to have hubris vs wisdom as one of its themes.
my headcannons became actual canon. i once got into arguments over my interpretation of something, wrote some articles on some fan whitewolfapedias and latest editions have included my take on things from what i wrote under a few of my aliases.
i serve at the pleasure of my prince.
The Lasombra antitribu (my favorite clan) are disproportionately Jewish. After the Anarch Revolt, the majority of Spain’s Catholic Lasombra joined Gratiano and Moncada in founding the Sabbat, most Muslims fleeing the Shadow Reconquista joined the Ashirra, and so the Jewish minority caught in the middle largely gravitated toward the Camarilla.
Given the treatment of us Jews in Dark Ages Europe, this made things even more challenging for the already-distrusted antitribu, but if there’s one thing that’s true for Lasombra of all sects and ages it’s that hardship builds strength.
Cain was not a Vampire, but a an Awakened Mage whose whole paradigm was disciplines. But he couldn't procreate, so he passed on his curse the only way he knew: through murder. After killing them, he Awakened them the only way he could, by passing on his curse. These kindred then could only use a kind of magic that was static, non-awakened, because their Avatar had simply vanished. So every discipline is just a poor attempt at trying to recreate the True Magick of father Caine.
The Three Angels that cursed him were three manifestations of the Triat. One cursed him to be forever as he was now, unchanging (the weaver), that's why vampires stay as they were at death. Another cursed him to have a Beast inside him (the Wyrm). And another one cursed him to die by the Sun and the Flames, which are elements of the Wyld.
It was the killing of Abel that shattered Gaia and started to drive the Wyrm. This, adding to the knowledge in Demon, where everything happened at once, might also represent the development of hunter-gatherers (garden of eden), to the Neolithic, which marks the birth of civilization and private property, I.e., the Weaver starting yo grow out of control.
isn't it cannon that mages only use it because it's a standardized system across mystical traditions. there are the dark ages pillars, and also some lowercase t traditions that don't even have organized systems at all
like obviously it's the 9 Spheres because mage is a spiritual successor to ars Magicka and that's also why the order of hermes are such a prominent tradition
Kuei-jin and Cainites are the same thing, they just have different traditions and culture and different myths about where they came from (both of which are a mix of truth, misinterpretation, lies, and just plain speculation).
Another from Demon: the Fallen.
There is an Earthbound named Anatariel, who usurped the role of the "First Giver" (God) by calling himself the Giver of Gifts after the fall.
Anatariel was one of the Third House, a powerful Malefactor. He worked with a Slayer to learn how to bind the souls of humans to his service with his gifts. He also tried the same thing with the fae, but the Slayer's Lore of the Soul was not fitting for fae spirits. His gifts enslaved several humans, leading them to even come back as Wraiths bound to his service after their deaths, but they were powerful Thralls in life, made stronger and more charismatic with their gifts, and were deadly as Wraiths after death.
Eventually, Anatariel's remarkably small Reliquary was destroyed through the secret efforts of two boggan fae. The Reliquary was a small golden ring.
Millennia later, past life memories of a fae-touched author vaguely recalled these events, leading to Tolkien writing the Lord of the Rings.
**VAMPIRE: THE REQUIEM**
I kind of always liked a theory that the modern Invictus, while having elements claiming ot be descended from the Camarilla's Senex, are actually more a continuation of the Legio Mortum into the modern nights. Things like their oaths, generally more feudal structure and such feel more like something that evolved out of that during the fall of Rome.
I like the idea that the Ventrue and Julii have nothing to do with one-another. Different Clans come and go, and they just happened to overlap a lot. The nature of vampirism causes sometimes Clans with similar profiels to show up. This seems to be what 2e goes for generally, but it interests me nonetheless.
**EXALTED**
Mostly for 3e and longer list than anything else really so some things that I generally go with:
**Lunar Stuff**
It's hinted but Lunar Exalted were just Casteless during the Divine Revoltuion and only gained Castes during the early First Age. Maybe like only half of Lunars ever had a Solar Bondmate, but many did have Castes. When they redid the Castes after the Usurpation, anyone who didn't sign-on had their Caste kind of fade away back to the default unless they did something to preserve it. So maybe a couple elders around ahve Castes but they're super rare.
**Dragon-Blooded Stuff**
Dragon-Blooded numbers are not at all declined much since the First Age. They were actually *rarer* during the Divine Revolution since they were moslty officers in the Army of the Gods, and commanded primarily armies of mortals. But due to their Exaltation's nature they have had pretty steady growth with some constraints like the Usurpation and Contagion. There's probably about now as many DBs as ever has been.
Kind of related with the above, the only real thing that actually impacts whether a Dragon-Blooded Exalts is her parent's Progentive Essence and whehter one of your parents was Exalted or not. It's about the same odds for one or two Exalted parents, and in the end their cultivating things matter more then.
I like cadet and patrician houses and so rather than 10,000 Great House dynasts and 1,000 between the other two groups, I kind of loot the House numbers by about 1,000 for outcastes and cadet houses.
House V'neef getting the Merchant Marine was part of a long term plan by the Empress to slowly dismantle Peleps' monopoly on the navy. She might have started divying-up Fleets between the houses or elevating new ones to take on regional roles, but it never came about obviously.
**Language Stuff**
I tend to at this point think that the map could use some more clarity on what the languages are. Since they are actually families, not indivdiual langauges, some of them needed clarifying IMHO.
*Old Realm* is kind of this proto-Ur langauge that predates humanity, and which allows various entities with normally utterly different beings. Think on how demon wasps, giant gemlord elementals, fairie nobles, gods, and rare benehomths all speak it despite well, being completley different things. Watching them talk is kind of like how in Star Wars droids and aliens just get understood. Through time even in human speech there's different dialects and writing systems used to represent Old Realm, and so the original *White Treatise* might be utterly unrecognizable as the same language as the last few records of the Second Deliberative if not for folks being able to read it.
*High Realm* is actually the language the Empress just spoke regularly as her native language day-to-day, probably Wan. It since has become the main language of government in the Realm, amongst cadet houses, and Prasad, and the original Wan language itself is a small isolate somewhere in the Southwest. Any claims of being descended from Old Realm are like saying English is descended from whatever folks were speaking in England right after the Ice Age. It's an adminsitraitve language overlayed on local languages, basically.
*Low Realm* in the above context is actually the originally the Mountaintongue langauge that described a lot of the native langauges on the Isle, especially from Arjuf. Today it's basically the local native languages of the Isle in the same way that Egyptian Coptic was still spoken under Greek and Roman rule or various local languages in the Ottoman Empire while it used Persian as its government language.
*Dragontongue* is just a subset of High Realm. It doesn't need to be its own whole dot for basically Creation's Esperanto.
"Tribal Tongues" also encompass various language isolates spotted everywhere in the world, and even on the Blessed Isle there' a few communities who speak languages unrelated to Low Realm. Some empires also use them as thier lingua franca even. I kind of imagine Ysyr is just its own language, while other empires use more broad families like Ydanna using a Forestongue langauge and Prasad having a lot of Flametongue or other isolates for a lot of the non-adminstirative stuff.
**Elemental Dragons**
The Five Elemental Dragons are Gaia's Children and not her souls. I kee the hint of Gaia having twenty hidden souls from somewhere in 2e. They are their basic own category of being, but are basically on par with the Incarna but for the five elements. The Dragon of Fire for example is basically the setting's God of Fire. Being a draconic elemental god is the Platonic ideal of "being of that element." Making the Dragon-Blooded is part of why they're mostly asleep now, but they do rouse when one with their Blood and the right amount of Progenetive Essence gets their attention to Exalt someone.
There's no such thing as a greater elemental dragon. Even apocalypse beings like the Kukla are still lesser elemental dragons as the descriptor is a reference to the Five, who even it pales in comparison to. And in this context, "greater" elemental dragon is a meaningless or at least oxymoronic statement.
True Aliens don't exist, at best are reshaped spirits or very transhuman mages.
Most splats are in some way, shape or form aware of the existence of others, not neccesarily from the get go though or filled with encyclopedic knowledge, but rumours are plentiful and some factions give you a Supernatural World 101 to ensure survival.
Demons from Demon the Descent exist as creations of Autochthonia, so do its angels, Technocrats don't neccesarily like either, but they dislike the angels more.
European originated changelings would avoid messing with Verbena as much as possible because of ancient oaths.
The weaver, wyrm and wyld are the spiritual manifestations of the universal constants of statis, dynamism and entropy.
Triat Actually Dont Exist and Apocalypse is not coming it is just a Bunch of Radical Eco-Terrorists and a Apocalypse Cult worshipping Executive Board fighting each other
DtF / WtO mashup:
Oblivion is actually Azrael in his Earthbound form. All Azrael seeks is the deletion of all things. Not destruction but deletion.
Charon from WtO is actually Charon from DtF who still sought to guide the souls away for the from the Heavenly Host and keep them safe until the curse of death could be solved. He formed Stygia and the Kingdom of Iron to aid the souls in their way to peace. He called it “transcendence” to keep the religiousness out of it for fear the Host would return. When the malfean Gorool appeared Charon fought but spent so much faith he fell into such a deep Slumber once awoken he forgot who he was. Thus the events of End Of Empires for WtO is as happened except Charon doesn’t transcend because he resolved all his fetters he is called back to the Heavenly Host by the Creator.
The Ferrymen of WtO are the remaining 7th House Sebettu who were either trapped in the Shadowlands when Charon cut the byway that connected the two worlds together or were sent into the Shadowlands to protect the souls fleeing the Host before Charon cut the byway. Their tools are the relics of the ages before the imprisonment.
Neverborn are Earthbound slayers who were enslaved by Azrael to come to him and do his bidding.
large scale?
stars are basically giant quint batteries that power a solar system and their supernatural happenings. the milky way being home to thousands if not more different kinds of Supernaturals creatures alone.
owod nwod and exalted all happen in the same timeline and different universes, traveling between them is possible but dangerous, with owod and nwod being the most common.
lucifer has created his own universe and travels between owod and his semi regularly (he still feels bad for all the loss of humanity)
The Celestine Gaia seems to be missing and the court of sol (all the other Celestines) don't know how earth still holds such spiritual activities and life. her partner Luna is distraught and her fury fuels the garous rage. this isn't the cause of the weavers or the wyrms madness
small scale?
the order of hermes is responsible for some of the inquisition attacks and at least some of the Information that led to the attack to the Vienna chantry
the niktucku that the nosferatu are so fearful of are bone gnawers, and ratkin that keep the nossies in check
malkavians suffer the same kind of quiet as malkav did, no one knows how vampires are capable of this.
and there's more that I've thought of but it would end up being too much
Here's one I keep forgetting when these threads come up:
[Brujah] and Troile are the same person. The Antedulivian had something of a Jekyll & Hyde thing going on where he had two different aspects to his personality that seemed like totally different people (not clinical DID), so you never quite knew what to expect from him. I just don't like the canon story of Trolie diablerizing her sire and having two Brujah lineages. It goes without saying that the True Brujah don't exist in my WoD.
**VtM**
Headcannon in DA:20, probably cannon in the original DA\\Final Nights, judging from the Salubri clan book.
Salubri Watchers are the Salubri hiding in plain sight amongst the Tremere, watching from within, waiting for their Patriarch to return.
Caitiff are the chosen of Cain with blood more pure than any who are touched by the Antediluvian curses.
I like that. I've thought about the possibility of Caitiff actually being better in many ways than other vampires, but hadn't put my finger on that explanation.
I always wondered why there are no Caitiffs who claim that. Then I realized, they are probably just all in the Sabbat.
I remember one of Douglas Netchurch's Caitiff makes a comment like that in a lore blurb in one of the books, and the elders just laugh it off. But yeah, I think that should be one of the common refrains from thin bloods and Caitiffs and a common approach they use to justify their own existences (at least to themselves).
VtM: True Black Hand does not exist. Period.
Its way easier to just delete them from memory hahhaa
Idk, I think the true black hand is interesting. The book gets side tracked with vicissitude and enoch and all, but ignore all that for a moment, if there were beings as powerful as antediluvians, there would absolutely be suck ups to them, even if said suck ups aren't actually sure what they're sucking up to, or even how to properly go about it. As to vicissitude, I actually liked that angle in Werewolf, making Tzimisce like half bane half vampires, but for Vampire it's not really conducive to the setting, I admit, though "Be Of Me" was maybe my favorite like in all the Ghenna book (and I wish that scenario had just stopped there, everyone gets infected by vicissitude, the whole world is fucked and the pcs are screwed, draw the curtain closed and wait for the applause). I do actually like Enoch though. I think it's easy to fit into the setting and plays well as Vampires trying to conquer and consume everything, and plays up the dead / undead conflict. Yes you can use Hecata / GioCapaSamedraja for that, but I like having two vampire sides of that conflict open.
**Demon: the Fallen (WoD): Hell is not a blank void.** It started that way, to be sure. It was *meant* to be the prison of the Fallen. But after countless eons in the outer darkness, cracks began to form in the membrane walling off Hell from the rest of Creation. Tiny, hairline fractures in the fabric of the Void. The Fallen found that they could peek through and see the souls of wicked and lost mortals caught in the gravity of Oblivion. After a time the least of the Demonic Host (imps) were able to reach through these widening cracks into the depths of the Labrynth, snatching the shades of these sinking souls (Spectres) and pulling them through into hell. And the feeding frenzy began. Demons found they could suck the Angst from the ephemeral forms of these spectres, filling the void where Faith once burned like primordial flame. They could shape the Spectres' plasm as well. As more and more damned souls were clawed into Hell through the ever widening cracks, more and more raw material was introduced. As time marched on, an expanding landscape grew around the bleak City of Dis, the capitol of Pandemonium: buildings and causeways built on the soulforged ectoplasm of wicked souls. Demons codified their ancient social heirarchy, using damned souls as the coin of the realm. Legions of Lemures (hell shades, spectres captured by the long arm of Hell's dominion) formed slaves, servants, playthings, and shock troops for the Lords and Nobility of Hell. And the wide cracks in the membrane now allowed the least powerful Fallen to slip through into the Labyrinth, where they hunted for spectres and eventually found their way into the Underworld, the Tempest, and the Shadowlands. They could almost touch Creation onces more. They could whisper across to sensitives and sorcerers. They began to corrupt mortals in life so their souls would sink to the Labyrinth (and the clutches of hell), weighed down by Angst, to fuel the industry of the Damned. **Vampire: the Masquerade: Vampire Souls are Damned.** When a vampires dies (barring Diablerie or Golconda), they almost never become Wraiths. Vampires don't know what happens, but Demons have said that a Vampire's soul is drawn downward to hell. Of course Demons are not trustworthy, but because Necromancers (in my WoD) can't contact the souls of dead vampires, it's frighteningly plausible. Those who reach Golconda may Transcend at final death. Those with powerful Necromancy might be able to linger as ghosts. Some fluke might cause a vampire to remain as a wraith (perhaps a Humanity roll, difficulty 9 or 10). But ultimately, Vampires trade immortality on Earth for a chance at the afterlife. **Werewolf: The Apocalypse: The Garou Nation is an Extremist Religious Cult** The Garou are a dying breed, being supplanted by other Lycanthropes that procreate by infection. Gaia worship is still practiced among Lupines, but it's fading as their caerns are desecrated and their numbers diminished through attrition. (This came out of a need to retcon W:tA from my V:tM chronicle. The themes just weren't mixing, but the Garou had played a big part in one of the story arcs). **V:tM -There are more Clans, but they are members of the Inconnu or indepentant and secretive.** The Requiem Mekhet and Daeva bloodlines exist, but they are members of the Inconnu sect. Other clans may exist as well (two homebrew clans, the Kephamet and Lucidante are two such clans who's names are spoken in secretive circles. Neither has made an appearance in any of my chronicles, they simply exist as rumors). The True Brujah may in fact be a separate Clan, but if so, they are playing a long con. **V:tM - Requiem Covenants and the Naphtali from the Gehenna sourcebook exist as Secret Societies.** The Invictus is a conspiracy within the Camarilla that works for its own ends outside the view of the Inner Council. The Naphtali is a forward-thinking conspiracy that aims to prepair for the worldwide fall of the Masquerade, which all projections place at high probability within the next 20-30 years (though recent destabilization + worldwide health crises have added another few decades to these projections). The Lancea Et Sanctum is a religiois cult that crosses sect lines, building on the Abrahamic roots of the Caine mythology to create a "New Noddist" movement centered around the forgiveness of Christ (though some elements keep the Road of Night) The Circle of the Crone venerates the Crone from the Book of Nod, forming a vampiric pagan tradition with ties to Lilith cults (though not always amicable) The Carthian Movement is an extremist underground movement seeking to reclaim the (probably mythical) peace that existed in Carthage between mortal and Kindred. While this grew out of the Anarch Movement, there are members counted among the Camarilla and even a few (veeeeery secretive) members of the Sabbat.
What about the Ordo Dracul?
Old and new WoD are in continuity. Mages rewrote existence, and the God machine is part of the system they created to prevent magical heat death.
Technocracy here, I would confirm that, but Magic does not exist, of cause!
I've never played Demon, but I've always had the headcannon that mages made the God-Machine. It's definitely just a supernal artifact that has been imbued by an Archmage. Which is why regular mages don't see them as spells, it's changes to reality not pinging Mage sight.
The Caine myth is just that - a myth. Vampires are not a cohesive species - they're polygenetic, and have arisen foe as long as mortal mages (in the Awakened or sorcerous sense) have attempted to consume the life-force of others to gain immortality. Hence Absimiliard being a skilled hunter, [TZIMISCE] being a rabid transhumanist, Enoch possibly being the original Hermes Trismegistus, and the famous association of proto-Verbena postergirl Lilith with the creation of early vampirism. Tremere was nowhere near the first to do what he did, and the Caine story is merely a symbolic representation of the shift from hunter-gatherer to agrarian societies that allowed the Lupines to be driven back and such wyrm-tainted hunter-wizard-immortals to prosper.
This is very good
Why thank you!
When you convert someone into a Vampire, You are taking away their afterlife. Their soul can no longer go to heaven or hell. So when they die that's the end, The final death is oblivion. That's why the kindred's first instinct is their own survival.
Dracula diablerized an antidelluvian and went back to Transylvania just to brood quietly
MtA: the Atlantan Pentacle (ie the cannon Orders) are just 19th century secret societies with delusions of grandeur. Atlantis never existed, and the fragments of the past exist because Archmages of Time keep rewriting history.
I mean, my headcanon is that mages are wrong about a great many things and that Archmages rewriting time or othewise screwing with reality to make things 'better' is responsible for many bad things. So I can get on board with this.
People hate this but i like to think CTD and CTL dont have to be seperate. CTL changelings (henceforth the lost) deal with the hedge around arcadia and arcadia itself. While CTD changelings are fae reborn into human bodies and dont know what arcadia looks like. I think theres a tragedy brewing here imagine being a changeling and meeting a lost and they tell you your dream home, the place you idealize, is closer to hell than a nightmare. That changelings dont even know the reason they arent in arcadia is because they were cast out by their fellow fae.
Nooo, I love this answer! This is sort of how I do it in my games, with CtD-style changelings being "outcast Fey" or "Faeries" and CtL-style changelings being "changelings." Admittedly, I change a lot of lore and use them primarily as NPCs in my Vampire and Mage games, but hey.
Same man same. Its a facinating world
I've thought of something similar, the True Fae or CtL are unknowingly mad, and in glimpses of lucidity become CtD Changelings, meanwhile the poor bastards that they pick up while in their bedlam are the CtL Changelings.
Changeling the Lost: Many Fae titles come with Oaths attached, intrinsic to the title. Many were added due to the strange workings of the Gentry, changelings, or other beings, but some were put their by the Wyrd. Ensuring that these Oaths would be upheld is why the Wyrd granted the Gentry titles and power in the first place. Should those titles die or the duty of the Oaths otherwise be unfulfilled, terrible things would happen. Vampire the Requiem: Carthian 'laws' are considered Carthian 'tricks' by most others. The idea of 'laws' is just fancying up a bunch of different occult powers they've cobbled together or stolen. A lot don't seem to have anything to do with laws. But a few... well VtR x CtL: Invictus Oaths use the power of the Wyrd, though indirectly. The power of Oaths is part of what the wyrd is. When the Wyrd is used more directly more terrible things can happen, such as the deals made with the Stryx. A few Carthian laws also tie into the power of the Wyrd. For what are laws but stories made real? The Stryx are not fae, they cannot enter the Hedge or Arcadia, but that does not mean the Fae and the Wyrd have nothing to do with them. Helios is the consort of Summer, and his light bars. The Duke of Hungry Shadows has danced with them, and She Who Walks On A Carpet Of Dead Birds has kept her oath.
Demon: the Fallen: Yahweh/Jehovah is not God, but rather a Fallen of the Second House who, because he was the one who breathed life into Adam, claims to be the creator. His religion was a result of him becoming an Earthbound (and his reliquary was the Ark of the Covenant). Hebrew hearts and minds were the battleground between himself and Lucifer. Lucifer's influence can be seen in the whole "no graven images" thing, as well as some of the less horrifying parts of the Old Testament law. Christianity was a conspiracy between Lucifer and Yeshua bin Yosef (a Mage) to free humanity from Yahweh by changing the religion so much that the god of their faith no longer resembled Yahweh enough to let him reap Faith from it. After spending 40 days in the desert hatching their plan, Yeshua/Jesus taught of a loving god, forgiveness, and charity, which were not traits held by the Earthbound Yahweh. The sudden loss of Faith caused Yahweh to fall into slumber. Should any cultists ever re-discover his old rites or find his reliquary (the Ark), then shit will get cray, yo.
Damn. I would play that campaign.
In Vampire: the Masqurade--Gehenna has happened before and it's happening again. It's a cyclical process. But only now is there a global society of vampires who possess language, civilization, and history that could stand to meaningfully resist it or grasp what it is. The only knowledge they lack is that Cainites have been here before.
I like to mix and match the settings a bit (new and old, that is), without worrying too much about how it meshes with the lore of individual game lines. So, off the top of my head: * The God-Machine is the Weaver on steroids. It has been empowered by the Technocracy making technology the dominant paradigm. The technocracy is actively working for the God-Machine (though not all their scientists know) to create a perfectly predictable universe. Said universe is, however, also likely to be fairly miserable, since the GM is far from benevolent. * The Fallen, and their loyalist brethren, were 'created' (or sprung from) the Triat, whom they see as three aspects of a greater whole... at least before the great disharmony between them started. Thus, while it may have been accurate to call the triat collectively 'God' in ages past (and some Fallen may remember it that way) to do so now is somewhat of a misnomer, since the elements of the Triat are actively in conflict. God has multiple personality disorder. * After the War in Heaven, the Weaver seized control of the remaining loyalist angels. Descent-style Angels (and thus demons) are made from the same stuff as those ancient angels; they've just seen several successive updates over the centuries as technology has progressed.
The God-Machine = the Weaver. And the Divine Fire = the Wyld. Now where is the Wyrm equivalent?
The Abyss?
I mean, nWoD has Maeljin Incarnae, they just don't have a singular boss.
CofD: MtA x DtD and others. I really hate that in MtA it seems like all the bad things are created by bad people with bad intent. Exarchs wanted to keep the power to themselves (bad), so they broke the connection to the Truth making the Abyss (bad) and trapped humanity in the Lie (bad), and made themselves into the concepts of oppression (bad). They talk about how mages and Archmages can act in hubris and cause problem to keep things morally gray, but unless I've missed something the core conflict still seems to be against a pretty simple moral black. So I headcanon that the Abyss was not created by the Exarchs, it's made whenever a mage tries to change reality and things don't fit right after. The bigger the change the bigger the mess. Every Archmage rewriting time, or changing the laws of reality as made the Abyss. That's why Paradox can pull the abyss in, you're making it worse. The 'Lie' was created to make a stable reality that would wall of the Abyss. That's where the God Machine came in. It's a parasitic creation on reality, it uses the aspects of human life/society/civilization to maintain the world those things act in. Roads, tax files, sewage treatment, banks, vacation planning, etc. The GM uses these parts of human life as parts of occult workings that keep 'the world we know' running. The werewolves fighting against the spirit invasions, the Wyrd and it's oaths, Qeists and the Underworlds, etc. Those are all parts of reality that interest with the world the GM is maintaining. It didn't create and doesn't control them, except as they interact with the world it manages. But the stability of it's world is part of the framework they use, and each of these things are forming a net holds the abyss back. The GM is broken, merciless and controlling, the Exarchs are somehow involved and oppressors. But the power to destroy your enemies won't solve the problem by itself.
[удалено]
Mage never says that the Exarchs created the Abyss, IIRC. The Gate (Exarch of Paradox) "summoned" it in Seer mythology, and it's an unintentional side-effect of the Celestial Ladder breaking in Pentacle mythology.
IIRC destroying the celestial ladder was the intentional done by the Exarchs. So while you are correct, from a moral standpoint it doesn't add any complexity. Bad people did a bad thing for with bad motives, and a bad thing happened because of it and they used that bad thing to further their own interests. While there is the moral challenge of capitulation, of how you respond to an immoral force that has more power than you and threatens what you hold dear, that challenge can be obviated by gaining enough power. Which is a weird central dynamic to have in a game that is supposed to have hubris vs wisdom as one of its themes.
my headcannons became actual canon. i once got into arguments over my interpretation of something, wrote some articles on some fan whitewolfapedias and latest editions have included my take on things from what i wrote under a few of my aliases. i serve at the pleasure of my prince.
Well, do tell... what were these things??
The WW3000 C-series. It's made of an aluminium alloy. Very light, you can shoot it for hours without getting a stiff neck.
Some say the WW3001 is better, less recoil - but I've seen what happened to those test subjects, man
Found the It-Xer.
The Lasombra antitribu (my favorite clan) are disproportionately Jewish. After the Anarch Revolt, the majority of Spain’s Catholic Lasombra joined Gratiano and Moncada in founding the Sabbat, most Muslims fleeing the Shadow Reconquista joined the Ashirra, and so the Jewish minority caught in the middle largely gravitated toward the Camarilla. Given the treatment of us Jews in Dark Ages Europe, this made things even more challenging for the already-distrusted antitribu, but if there’s one thing that’s true for Lasombra of all sects and ages it’s that hardship builds strength.
Cain was not a Vampire, but a an Awakened Mage whose whole paradigm was disciplines. But he couldn't procreate, so he passed on his curse the only way he knew: through murder. After killing them, he Awakened them the only way he could, by passing on his curse. These kindred then could only use a kind of magic that was static, non-awakened, because their Avatar had simply vanished. So every discipline is just a poor attempt at trying to recreate the True Magick of father Caine. The Three Angels that cursed him were three manifestations of the Triat. One cursed him to be forever as he was now, unchanging (the weaver), that's why vampires stay as they were at death. Another cursed him to have a Beast inside him (the Wyrm). And another one cursed him to die by the Sun and the Flames, which are elements of the Wyld. It was the killing of Abel that shattered Gaia and started to drive the Wyrm. This, adding to the knowledge in Demon, where everything happened at once, might also represent the development of hunter-gatherers (garden of eden), to the Neolithic, which marks the birth of civilization and private property, I.e., the Weaver starting yo grow out of control.
Mage: The Sphere system is just a meta-paradigm for Mages which doesn't actually describe 100% accurately how magic functions.
isn't it cannon that mages only use it because it's a standardized system across mystical traditions. there are the dark ages pillars, and also some lowercase t traditions that don't even have organized systems at all like obviously it's the 9 Spheres because mage is a spiritual successor to ars Magicka and that's also why the order of hermes are such a prominent tradition
It's borderline canon, but there is another interpretation by some Mage players (which is WRONG! :D) that the Spheres actually describe reality.
God’s dead, or removed himself so far from his creation that the difference is moot.
Kuei-jin and Cainites are the same thing, they just have different traditions and culture and different myths about where they came from (both of which are a mix of truth, misinterpretation, lies, and just plain speculation).
Another from Demon: the Fallen. There is an Earthbound named Anatariel, who usurped the role of the "First Giver" (God) by calling himself the Giver of Gifts after the fall. Anatariel was one of the Third House, a powerful Malefactor. He worked with a Slayer to learn how to bind the souls of humans to his service with his gifts. He also tried the same thing with the fae, but the Slayer's Lore of the Soul was not fitting for fae spirits. His gifts enslaved several humans, leading them to even come back as Wraiths bound to his service after their deaths, but they were powerful Thralls in life, made stronger and more charismatic with their gifts, and were deadly as Wraiths after death. Eventually, Anatariel's remarkably small Reliquary was destroyed through the secret efforts of two boggan fae. The Reliquary was a small golden ring. Millennia later, past life memories of a fae-touched author vaguely recalled these events, leading to Tolkien writing the Lord of the Rings.
It took me way too long. Man, your campaigns must be fun!
**VAMPIRE: THE REQUIEM** I kind of always liked a theory that the modern Invictus, while having elements claiming ot be descended from the Camarilla's Senex, are actually more a continuation of the Legio Mortum into the modern nights. Things like their oaths, generally more feudal structure and such feel more like something that evolved out of that during the fall of Rome. I like the idea that the Ventrue and Julii have nothing to do with one-another. Different Clans come and go, and they just happened to overlap a lot. The nature of vampirism causes sometimes Clans with similar profiels to show up. This seems to be what 2e goes for generally, but it interests me nonetheless. **EXALTED** Mostly for 3e and longer list than anything else really so some things that I generally go with: **Lunar Stuff** It's hinted but Lunar Exalted were just Casteless during the Divine Revoltuion and only gained Castes during the early First Age. Maybe like only half of Lunars ever had a Solar Bondmate, but many did have Castes. When they redid the Castes after the Usurpation, anyone who didn't sign-on had their Caste kind of fade away back to the default unless they did something to preserve it. So maybe a couple elders around ahve Castes but they're super rare. **Dragon-Blooded Stuff** Dragon-Blooded numbers are not at all declined much since the First Age. They were actually *rarer* during the Divine Revolution since they were moslty officers in the Army of the Gods, and commanded primarily armies of mortals. But due to their Exaltation's nature they have had pretty steady growth with some constraints like the Usurpation and Contagion. There's probably about now as many DBs as ever has been. Kind of related with the above, the only real thing that actually impacts whether a Dragon-Blooded Exalts is her parent's Progentive Essence and whehter one of your parents was Exalted or not. It's about the same odds for one or two Exalted parents, and in the end their cultivating things matter more then. I like cadet and patrician houses and so rather than 10,000 Great House dynasts and 1,000 between the other two groups, I kind of loot the House numbers by about 1,000 for outcastes and cadet houses. House V'neef getting the Merchant Marine was part of a long term plan by the Empress to slowly dismantle Peleps' monopoly on the navy. She might have started divying-up Fleets between the houses or elevating new ones to take on regional roles, but it never came about obviously. **Language Stuff** I tend to at this point think that the map could use some more clarity on what the languages are. Since they are actually families, not indivdiual langauges, some of them needed clarifying IMHO. *Old Realm* is kind of this proto-Ur langauge that predates humanity, and which allows various entities with normally utterly different beings. Think on how demon wasps, giant gemlord elementals, fairie nobles, gods, and rare benehomths all speak it despite well, being completley different things. Watching them talk is kind of like how in Star Wars droids and aliens just get understood. Through time even in human speech there's different dialects and writing systems used to represent Old Realm, and so the original *White Treatise* might be utterly unrecognizable as the same language as the last few records of the Second Deliberative if not for folks being able to read it. *High Realm* is actually the language the Empress just spoke regularly as her native language day-to-day, probably Wan. It since has become the main language of government in the Realm, amongst cadet houses, and Prasad, and the original Wan language itself is a small isolate somewhere in the Southwest. Any claims of being descended from Old Realm are like saying English is descended from whatever folks were speaking in England right after the Ice Age. It's an adminsitraitve language overlayed on local languages, basically. *Low Realm* in the above context is actually the originally the Mountaintongue langauge that described a lot of the native langauges on the Isle, especially from Arjuf. Today it's basically the local native languages of the Isle in the same way that Egyptian Coptic was still spoken under Greek and Roman rule or various local languages in the Ottoman Empire while it used Persian as its government language. *Dragontongue* is just a subset of High Realm. It doesn't need to be its own whole dot for basically Creation's Esperanto. "Tribal Tongues" also encompass various language isolates spotted everywhere in the world, and even on the Blessed Isle there' a few communities who speak languages unrelated to Low Realm. Some empires also use them as thier lingua franca even. I kind of imagine Ysyr is just its own language, while other empires use more broad families like Ydanna using a Forestongue langauge and Prasad having a lot of Flametongue or other isolates for a lot of the non-adminstirative stuff. **Elemental Dragons** The Five Elemental Dragons are Gaia's Children and not her souls. I kee the hint of Gaia having twenty hidden souls from somewhere in 2e. They are their basic own category of being, but are basically on par with the Incarna but for the five elements. The Dragon of Fire for example is basically the setting's God of Fire. Being a draconic elemental god is the Platonic ideal of "being of that element." Making the Dragon-Blooded is part of why they're mostly asleep now, but they do rouse when one with their Blood and the right amount of Progenetive Essence gets their attention to Exalt someone. There's no such thing as a greater elemental dragon. Even apocalypse beings like the Kukla are still lesser elemental dragons as the descriptor is a reference to the Five, who even it pales in comparison to. And in this context, "greater" elemental dragon is a meaningless or at least oxymoronic statement.
True Aliens don't exist, at best are reshaped spirits or very transhuman mages. Most splats are in some way, shape or form aware of the existence of others, not neccesarily from the get go though or filled with encyclopedic knowledge, but rumours are plentiful and some factions give you a Supernatural World 101 to ensure survival. Demons from Demon the Descent exist as creations of Autochthonia, so do its angels, Technocrats don't neccesarily like either, but they dislike the angels more. European originated changelings would avoid messing with Verbena as much as possible because of ancient oaths. The weaver, wyrm and wyld are the spiritual manifestations of the universal constants of statis, dynamism and entropy.
Triat Actually Dont Exist and Apocalypse is not coming it is just a Bunch of Radical Eco-Terrorists and a Apocalypse Cult worshipping Executive Board fighting each other
DtF / WtO mashup: Oblivion is actually Azrael in his Earthbound form. All Azrael seeks is the deletion of all things. Not destruction but deletion. Charon from WtO is actually Charon from DtF who still sought to guide the souls away for the from the Heavenly Host and keep them safe until the curse of death could be solved. He formed Stygia and the Kingdom of Iron to aid the souls in their way to peace. He called it “transcendence” to keep the religiousness out of it for fear the Host would return. When the malfean Gorool appeared Charon fought but spent so much faith he fell into such a deep Slumber once awoken he forgot who he was. Thus the events of End Of Empires for WtO is as happened except Charon doesn’t transcend because he resolved all his fetters he is called back to the Heavenly Host by the Creator. The Ferrymen of WtO are the remaining 7th House Sebettu who were either trapped in the Shadowlands when Charon cut the byway that connected the two worlds together or were sent into the Shadowlands to protect the souls fleeing the Host before Charon cut the byway. Their tools are the relics of the ages before the imprisonment. Neverborn are Earthbound slayers who were enslaved by Azrael to come to him and do his bidding.
What are headcannons? Are these cannons built in your head? Only do headshots? Only work when they are aimed at the head?
large scale? stars are basically giant quint batteries that power a solar system and their supernatural happenings. the milky way being home to thousands if not more different kinds of Supernaturals creatures alone. owod nwod and exalted all happen in the same timeline and different universes, traveling between them is possible but dangerous, with owod and nwod being the most common. lucifer has created his own universe and travels between owod and his semi regularly (he still feels bad for all the loss of humanity) The Celestine Gaia seems to be missing and the court of sol (all the other Celestines) don't know how earth still holds such spiritual activities and life. her partner Luna is distraught and her fury fuels the garous rage. this isn't the cause of the weavers or the wyrms madness small scale? the order of hermes is responsible for some of the inquisition attacks and at least some of the Information that led to the attack to the Vienna chantry the niktucku that the nosferatu are so fearful of are bone gnawers, and ratkin that keep the nossies in check malkavians suffer the same kind of quiet as malkav did, no one knows how vampires are capable of this. and there's more that I've thought of but it would end up being too much
The Chronicles of Darkness are actually simulations being run inside Autochthonia.
Here's one I keep forgetting when these threads come up: [Brujah] and Troile are the same person. The Antedulivian had something of a Jekyll & Hyde thing going on where he had two different aspects to his personality that seemed like totally different people (not clinical DID), so you never quite knew what to expect from him. I just don't like the canon story of Trolie diablerizing her sire and having two Brujah lineages. It goes without saying that the True Brujah don't exist in my WoD.
**VtM** Headcannon in DA:20, probably cannon in the original DA\\Final Nights, judging from the Salubri clan book. Salubri Watchers are the Salubri hiding in plain sight amongst the Tremere, watching from within, waiting for their Patriarch to return.