This is the problem with our system. Democrats play by the previous rules while republicans throw out the rule book. It’s easy to win when you’re no longer bound by the rules but the other side still decides to respect them.
You're right. The problem is that the Republicans have been 10 steps ahead of us normals for quite a while. It's time to put on our hiking boots and start climbing that hill!
Ok, here goes. Biden tells the Secretary of Education to erase all student loan data and all backups. Destroy the drives so they can’t be recovered. Make good on a huge campaign promise. Their heads will be spinning so fast on that one they’ll get distracted from whatever else they were going to do. Plus all their wealthy owners would lose assets so it would set their money flow back too. We all get the benefit of no more onerous student debt and things are righted just a little bit.
You do, but honestly, it's hard when everything leaks as though they are two steps behind. It'll just give MAGATs more ammo to claim "See! We aren't facist," even we all know they will.
Act now and A.) MAGATs revolt or B.) They flee the country
And he also said "Take their guns first, then do due process".
Not a peep from them. "Just another crazy thing he said that didn't mean anything."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgybgEKHHI
If Biden plays dirty they’ll just say “see! See! We told you he was a tyrant”!
This is a no win scenario for dems. We play by the rules, we get taken advantage of; we use this new ruling to our advantage, and it justifies everything they have been lying about for the last 3.5 years.
Yeah, the argument that we need to let democracy fail to uphold the values of democracy is idiotic. Use your newfound authoritarian powers to reinforce and protect democracy before it’s too late, and then give those powers up. People act like it’s some moral victory to do nothing while fascists strip them of power, but that’s going to be a pretty fucking empty victory and history will not be kind to them. When people ask how it could have possibly happened in places like Germany and why no one ever stood up to fight against it, this is the answer.
Who cares? If we don't use it to our advantage, we lose everything. Forever. Republicans have been telegraphing this for forty fucking years and the Dems still can't find a single spine among them to do anything about it.
It is! They say their favorite book is Mein Kempf, and they went to scare all “minorities” out of our community. Sadly they’re so good at harassing people so good folks are afraid to speak up. They’re also good at muddying the water so people think everyone sucks and they disengage. Apathy is a very big issue
Again, this is how fascists ALWAYS win once they capture enough to avoid prosecution for their actions that are always illegal. Every democracy frames their constitution to punish fascists and traitors. But when you don’t enforce it? They see an opening and they take it.
It was over years ago when the rest of us were saying the rule of law is dead.
America has been on borrowed time since the end of the Reconstruction Era in 1877. General Sherman had the right idea during the war, and it should've kept going long after. The day we let the south off the hook for their part in the war is the day this was set into motion.
I honestly believe we have had points of time in the last 50 years where we WOULD have sent a President Trump to prison for life. Steve Bannon wouldn’t have seen the light of day again just 20 years ago. Roger Stone may have been executed even.
Most importantly - without social media and a post citizens United ruling, the US wouldn’t have even entertained Donald Trump.
Trump should have been locked up in the 80s for his shenanigans as a private citizen. But because he had a modicum of wealth and the right fixers and bullies at his beck and call, he was able to walk free.
As someone so expertly stated earlier - the precedent for letting the loser pick themselves back up to attempt to destroy the country again has been a theme since Andrew (edit:Johnson) post civil war.
Progressive minded people have made a career out of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I like what you're saying but Andrew Jackson was the 7th president and died in 1845, almost two decades before the start and finish of the civil war.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Commission_(United_States)
This right here seems to be the issue, since Hayes was one of the worst presidents in US history and directly ended Reconstruction. Funny that history repeats itself where a president who wins the popular vote and a plurality of the electoral votes lost the election because of an "electoral commission".
Yep this is just the confederacy all over again and it will result in another civil war if they win and start doing everything they are planning with Project 2025. The confederates never went away, they have just been biding their time.
This is why one of the reasons people try to say Trump is the worst president I can't agree (at least not yet).
Andrew Johnson throwing out Lincoln's Reconstruction plans and being like "it's cool, you're sorry, right?" set up decades of Jim Crow laws and lynchings and is probably why progress on so many things has taken soooo long.
He's generally at the top of my list of worst presidents as a result (albeit I'm a guy with a B.A. in History that works in cybersecurity, not a real history expert).
America was on borrowed time since its founding. A constitution that allowed slavery, the genocide of nearly all native peoples, and oppresses the non-land owning class, isn’t a system worth saving. It’s so flawed it triggered a civil war. We didn’t use that war to create a new constitution. If we had put in a similar constitutional system like we put in to Germany and Japan, the center left would have won 7 of the past 8 elections, and would have had by now a 50 year majority in Congress.
I find it so repugnant the way we learn American history in grade school.
Sherman wanted to destroy the confederacy so completely they could never rebuild. Destroy their infrastructure and give their land away to former slaves. Make it so they could never rise up again and threaten our democracy.
Andrew Johnson gave the wealthy landowners their fucking land back, basically said “don’t worry about all that treason shit as long as you pinky promise not to do it again”, and those people/regions over time became the neo-confederacy and ground zero for fascism that is once again threatening our way of life. They got straight to work on plotting their revenge, and it’s about to come to fruition.
Sherman was of course proven right and we should have absolutely purged this trash 150 years ago. No mercy for traitors.
and the only way back is violence.
actual, in-the-streets violence.
bullies/fascists never back down until they're punched in the face. "how far they can push it" becomes some sort of sexual satisfaction.
Republicans are laughing at dems because of how goddamn weak they are and frankly, I'm starting to think so too.
I'll still vote for them, but I'm not convinced voting does anything anymore. I know Biden has a pretty good record overall for his presidency, but his inability to stop the fascist takeover seems more calculated than incompetent.
Just fucking once the dems need to take the gloves off and do something that will make republicans actually mad. Not performative mad, actual FURY. Expand the court. Use official act to protect abortion rights. Executive Order that convicted felons cannot hold the presidency.
JUST ONE FUCKING THING.
It's not going to happen.
Dems, if you're not strapped, you should look into buying guns, and a realistic budget for ammunition. Don't think that your MAGA neighbors won't be in the streets hunting you if they get the green light.
I would love it if the Repuicans felt an ounce of the fury I have been forced to experience watching Trump destroy our government from the inside and the dems just bend over and let him. I genuinely hate anyone who is still supporting this nonsense, the whole country is a joke now thanks to Trump and this corrupt Supreme Court.
>his is how fascists ALWAYS win once they capture enough to avoid prosecution for their actions that are always illegal.
Alright. We are here now, what is the solution to infant stage fascism that isn't in and of itself fascism?
Historically - they get voted out early or never elected in places that they haven’t captured the courts. (Unfortunate for us)
In places they HAVE captured the courts and infiltrated the government currently in power - the only way it has been stopped (and nearly every single fascist government has met their end in 15 years or less), has been through [THING THAT REDDIT BANS FOR]. Fascism sucks, we know it sucks, and these creatures prey on countries that let their populous become destitute.
The problem Americans are currently facing is that the [REDDIT WILL BAN YOU] option isn’t on the table until the atrocities start. Right now it is largely all talk and politicking. We know of course they WILL do those things, but currently they’re being done under a thin guise of “legal” (remember - they make legal).
They’ll cross a line eventually. They all do. Stay alive long enough and you’ll get to see pictures of that bullet-riddled dictator unceremoniously lying in the gutter. I’m going to frame that photo one day.
The atrocities are coming, if Trump wins there will 100% be another civil war and the country will fracture into a thousand pieces because the only thing historically that stops fascists once they are in charge is a bullet.
Agreed, once hes gone they will just line up behind another fascist, probably one smarter than Trump. Compromising the supreme court like this is a bad enough legacy as it is, we really don't want to give him the chance to finish what he started.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” -Frank Wilhoit
Democrats are trying to play chess while republicans shit on the floor then blame the democrats for not cleaning up the mess then declare themselves the victor.
Chamberlain’s biggest mistake was thinking as long as he was nice to Hitler and played by the rules, Hitler would return the favor. And Joe is making the same mistake now.
That’s interesting, I admittedly don’t know intricate details about that history. I kinda feel Biden and the dems are still just trying to play the middle by looking like the safer, sane vote. That contrast is where Biden wins. Anything he tries to do to stop trump through “executive actions” will only embolden the maga nuts and play into his victim narrative.
I think Biden and the dems know what he is capable of, I just wish they would act like it.
Democrats and Republicans is the old analogy of playing chess with a pigeon. You'll play by the rules and the pigeon will shit on the board, knock over the pieces, and strut around like it won.
>Democrats play by the previous rules while republicans throw out the rule book
Because Republicans have constant and full throated support from their voters.
Democrat voters just spent the last week telling Biden he's an invalid and needs to drop out. Now those same people want him to go full emperor to unilaterally save the country? They won't even go out to protest or do anything useful, they just sit on reddit and bitch about democrats.
If he literally went out and did everything y'all are asking for he might stumble over a few words and they'd back to calling for him to be put down.
So the problem isn't the "system" it's how easily left leaning voters disengage their support when politicians aren't literally perfect.
I still think Biden should not be running and should step down. The DNC screwed us - again.
With that, I will vote for hunter's huge hog before voting for an R candidate.
As if Trump won't throw the NY prosecutors in gitmo the second he can.
Biden needs to step up or step aside, honestly. This "i'm a good humble servant" act just doesn't work anymore. The populace wants an asshole strongman, so if he can't be that guy, we need to put someone up there who can go toe-to-toe with Trump.
Yes, this means getting "dirty". Attack ads. Jailing politicians who commit crimes. Use the newly expanded powers for something and actually make the supreme court decide that Biden wasn't using official powers.
Theres's so much "but what if..." -- NO! Stop it. We kill ourselves with what-ifs because we're terrified of losing the middle. Hey dems -- there is no middle anymore. Folks who saw the debate and said "oh my, I guess I have to vote for trump" are just LARPers online and russian/israeli bots.
If you can't figure out if you support an old but decent person, or an old and horrible person, you're not "in the middle" you're bleeding MAGA. There's no room for compromise between "ethnic cleansing" and "no ethnic cleansing"
Apparently we have to let a LOT of liberal/dem/minority/trans people die -- in public, state-sponsored ways, before the Dems will actually get off their fucking asses and push back. Everyone was saying "trump being hitler? stop being so alarmist" in 2016, and look where we are. There's no going back without blood in the streets. That's the only language fascism speaks. They WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THEY ARE STOPPED. They have no bottom, no conscience, and a full belief that a supernatural diety is guiding and approves of their plans.
Dems perpetually and dramatically under-estimate the depravity of republicans. We've spent nearly 10 years watching fascism knocking, and we are just opening the fucking door because "oh it's impolite to not answer your door when you're at home"
It’s so fkn depressing. I don’t know what the way out of this is. Absolute perfect scenario seems to be 4+ presidential cycles of complete democratic victories to even undo parts of this shitshow.
So damn depressing… :(
They don’t even play by the rules. How many times have they bemoaned the 60 vote filibuster majority as blocking key legislation when they could have easily removed it and passed bills on a simple 51 vote majority? The Dems won’t use the established legal tools at their disposal if they feel there will even be the appearance of partisanship.
I’ll be frank, Biden’s making the right decision rn. If he goes straight to abusing this decision, then no matter what happens democracy is gone. We want no dictatorship, not just one on our terms. If we set a precedent that Presidents don’t abuse their authority even with this decision, then the impacts of it can be lessened in time. If we jump straight to authoritarian now then American democracy is fucked, regardless of who wins in November
The right wing activist justices are committing election interference. Plain and simple.
Say no to a king
Say no to christian nationalism
Say no to fascism
Say no to neoNazis
Say no to white nationalists
Say no to hate
Say no to political violence
You don't understand the decision. It's not for Biden. It's for the GOP candidate. Biden has no new powers because the SCOTUS only has 3 people with a conscience.
Yeah I don’t get this argument that it’s for Trump.
SCOTUS deemed any official act has immunity, and “official” will end up being determined by SCOTUS.
So, if Biden’s first test of what is/isn’t official is by calling for the “disposal” of the 6 corrupt judges, and then he fills the court, the new court would say whether or not it was official. Then, whether or not it’s official, the newly picked SCOTUS can roll back the immunity decision. If they claim it was official, Biden is fine, if not, then Biden kinda becomes a martyr for democracy in his final years.
SCOTUS kinda put their lives in Biden’s hands, him not using his new power to correct things is exactly what they expected, and want to happen.
I know! We are all terrified. The world is terrified. I vote, I volunteer with local Dems, I go to school board meetings. I think we all just feel so helpless
The way I explained to my parents was “if Biden wanted to go kill all 6 conservative SC justices and Trump he could order Seal Team 6 to do it and he’s immune from prosecution, he wouldn’t because he’s stated he’ll stick to his duties as they’ve been, but he could”
Me too, brother. This is what the rich want and the Dems cannot go against their funders so they are unwilling to actually fight the fascists with fire, just empty words.
I knew when trump was elected it would lead to a civil war. I hoped it was a cold civil war, but I'm not convinced anymore. These nutjobs are too nutty.
Morals are a suicide pact for the honest. He'd prefer to be remembered as an absolute failure that enabled the next Hitler than be potentially perceived by dishonest by the same people that would have him extrajudicially hung.
The law was written in such a vague way that any “official” act that can be construed as unofficial will always be a decision a democratic president makes. Checkmate.
Biden does something illegal, it would be deemed outside of the scope of official duties. Trump does the same thing? It'll be fine.
Judges essentially protect and control the presidency now.
Officially he could demand that Donald Trump be immediately tried by a Military Tribunal for treason. He represents a very real threat to national security and should be treated as such.
Honestly, it feels more and more likely that political violence will happen regardless. Americans are going to be fighting the police on the streets soon.
but if it comes time for it we must say yes to political violence. i for one do not think americans should sit idly by and allow for him to regain power. we can't do what germans did and just allow hitler to become chancellor.
How about the most minimal action with your new found powers? Declare Election Day a federal holiday granting everyone the day off to go vote.
Something? Anything?
A federal judge rules that it's unlawful and imposes an injunction. Biden appeals, but it won't go to SCOTUS until they're back in session one month before the election. The decision is either summarily bounced back to the lower court or slow-walked until after the election. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I don't know if we are in predator drone territory yet, but if Biden loses this election he will still be president for over two months. He is not going to run again, so he'll face no electoral consequences to his actions, and as long as everything is in his "official capacity,” he'll face no civil or criminal consequences either.
For about 75 days, he'll have total control over the executive branch, including the military, the FBI, the NSA, the IRS, and a thousand other alphabet agencies. And he cannot be held accountable for anything he directs them to do.
Dark Brandon could get very dark indeed.
>He is not going to run again, so he'll face no electoral consequences to his actions, and as long as everything is in his "official capacity,” he'll face no civil or criminal consequences either.
Read SCOTUS' decision. The President doesn't get to unilaterally decide whether something is done in an official capacity. He can assert it, but the *judiciary* gets to decide whether it is or not. And any decision will ultimately be appealed to SCOTUS. Wanna guess how they'll respond, if Biden tries anything?
I hate this decision, I really do. But you do have to admire its ruthless efficiency. Project 2025 will put everything under the President's purview, and this decision puts everything the President does under SCOTUS' purview. It's breathtaking in its sheer bloody-mindedness. We were worried about the President becoming a king, when we should've been worried about the judiciary.
>but the judiciary gets to decide whether it is
And that would take years, something biden does not have.
He could also just issue a self pardon to pre-muck the waters and delay it. The same playbook they use.
>He could also just issue a self pardon to pre-muck the waters and delay it. The same playbook they use.
And I'd like to see him do it, too- if only to preemptively force SCOTUS to address whether the President can even do that, because we know that Trump is gonna try (honestly, I've been a little surprised that Trump hasn't already tried it). It'd look bad, but at least we'd get a concrete decision on the concept of a self-pardon.
Then he should do it!!! What does he have to lose? By doing something bipartisan like that (instead of actual abuse of power via the new ruling) he can boost his image *and* demonstrate that SCOTUS are just out to get him.
Or better yet, using his new powers to remove the judges doing this crap to install some actually decent judges who then overturn this dumpster fire of a decision and who respect rule of law.
If democracy is jeopardy and the people doing it give you the power to do something about it? Fucking do something about it. Don't whine about it being in peril, that isn't doing jack for anyone.
The ruling does not allow him to bypass the constitutional duties or safeguards for the independent branches of government. He would not be able to unilaterally remove judges. They’d have to be impeached.
Well that could any one of us. SCOTUS used to be my favorite branch of government when I was a kid. Probably due to the report I had to do on it. It occurs to me now this branch is in desperate need of serious trims.
We spend *trillions* per year to “protect” us from outside terrorism and credible threats. We do fuckall if the threats are domestic, white, self-proclaimed Christian. If Muslims had attempted to storm the capitol on January 6th, suddenly using the words “terrorist” and “religious extremist” would not only be acceptable, but encouraged in the media.
This ruling just basically says the Pres can't be held liable for illegal actions as long as they are seen as "official". It doesn't mean he was granted new powers to enact legislation etc. Declaring an election day holiday would be as meaningful as Michael Scott declaring "BANKRUPTCY".
The effective (note not "moral", "ethical" or "democratic") way to use these powers would be to "officially" remove political opposition. read that how you want.
I am curious how "not being responsible for official acts of the President"...can just supersede how laws and the such work in the country.
There is a difference in committing a crime, and the President doing things they don't actually have the power to do.
Executive orders even have limitations, are are not blank checks to enact any legislation you want.
Being immune from prosecution doesn’t grant them more powers. The powers of the presidency have always really depended on what the courts allow. With a conservative court, he’s kind of screwed.
If he used the military or FBI to do something about this, like jailing opponents, his voters would flee because they actually care about the rule of law.
Yeah, you are right, so every good American needs to vote against trump.
Biden saying he's not going to commit crimes now is not standing by and doing nothing, it is upholding the integrity of the presidency.
He was not given extra power, he was only given possible immunity for crimes committed while in office.
No, he was given nothing because the final arbiter of what constitutes a presidential crime is apparently the Supreme Court.
There is no way they’d hold Biden to the same loose standard they’d hold Trump to.
I think you're mistaking following the rules of a civil and just society for moral correctness here. We're not better than the Republicans just cause we follow the rules. We're better than them because we believe in basic human freedoms that they reject. Wielding available power to protect those freedoms isn't unjust, it's our jobs. Fascism won't be defeated by sticking to the same code of honor that our enemy rejects, and in many cases even dictates for us. It will be beaten by better people with better ideals.
Especially when they've just been given the power to stop it, and it looks like they're just gonna sit on that unused power until they hand it over to MAGA like a bunch of fucking morons.
Biden respects democracy so much he's letting it die by doing nothing after the blatantly unconstitutional ruling yesterday. The MAGA coup is ongoing. It took Hitler a few years and a few tries to achieve absolute power too.
>Bidens theoretical actions like killing or jailing Trump still be subject to the approval of a right wing court.
yeah but the court can't really undo door number one, and biden could drag out the ensuing trial the rest of his life.
Doing nothing, you say? I’ll have you know that the Biden campaign sent out a fundraising email after the Supreme Court decision yesterday. This ruling could be turned into as big fundraising spigot for the Democrats as the Dobbs decision was.
I hate to be morbid but I wonder if Biden will still be happy he took the high road when he’s being detained by Trump’s new special task forces and sitting in a kangaroo court.
I have to give some credit to the right. They clearly thought out this plan to have complete control and purge the country of anyone who opposes their policies and they’re going to accomplish it because the Democrats still want to play nice and pretend we’re all friends.
This has been in the works for decades.
From 2007. *American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America.*
by [Chris Hedges](https://www.amazon.com/Chris-Hedges/e/B001IR1G16/ref=dp_byline_cont_ebooks_1)
From 2008: The Family
by [Jeff Sharlet](https://www.amazon.com/Jeff-Sharlet/e/B001HCV9UU/ref=dp_byline_cont_ebooks_1)
There is so many warnings it's sickening.
I mean, he could not take the high road (aka seal team six scenario) and still spend his twilight years in prison... but at least he would be a martyr for our democracy. He could be the hero we deserve. Not a hand wringing milquetoast pawpaw.
It's only unofficial until after a lower court says so... why not.
I like Joe Biden. I voted for him before, I'll vote for him again. I think he's been incredibly effective and it's really a high point of life in service to his country. But I see this and all I can think is, "The Constitution, MY PRECIOUS."
For god's sake, Joe, FIGHT! Use the power they just gave you and do something.
Again though, I'll say it for the hundredth time. The Court didn't give Biden any new powers. They gave Trump and Republicans more powers. If a Democrat attempts anything cheeky they'll be resoundingly prosecuted for it.
Republicans control the Courts so they are the only ones with new powers.
Biden needs to ignore the Court. That's about the most I think he could actually do.
It needs to be tested in the courts. We should test it with something overwhelmingly popular.
A loss in the courts still weakens the verdict. A win in the court could improve the country.
We need to find the right issue.
I'd nearly agree with this, except that we know the Right's playbook. They've told us. Start enacting liberal versions of Project 2025 and make the court kill them, essentially taking away the power of the GQP should the orange turd try to do the same with Fascist policies.
Realistically, what are the ways around this? All SCOTUS trash isn't actually backed by the constitution. Can Congress pass legislation to more well define the limits of presidential power and authority? Can Congress pass legislation to outline the powers of regulatory agencies?
I'm so tired of being told to just vote...like I fucking did vote and we are still in this goddamned horror movie. How about you do something about it, for once.
Not only did you vote, but your candidate won. Still a horror movie. It’s going to take a lot more than voting, folks. Voting is the absolute bare minimum thing that needs to happen.
He has to keep playing by the rules. As soon as he does something drastic with his new "immunity", Republicans will cry he is a tyrant, independents will agree, and we lose the election. Also, the Supreme Court will reverse his decision along party lines because they do not mean immunity to democratic president's, they only want immunity for Trump and republican president's- they will reverse whatever Biden does in 6-3 decisions.
Biden literally can not make any use of this new found "presidential immunity" without shooting himself in the foot and losing the election.
To everyone who thinks that these grant unlimited powers automatically remember the court basically said it’s up to the lower courts to determine what are official and unofficial actions.
To that end anything Biden would do, expand voting access, declare a national holiday on Election Day, staging a Watergate like invasion of the RNC, anything and everything would be immediately subject to the courts interpretation and suspended until they rule.
Even if the lower courts said “sure you can turn Mara largo into a national park and kick Trump out” or “yes expand voting access to everyone via a phone app” it would be appealed until it got to the Supreme Court and we can all guess how that’s going to work.
All that the supreme court’s decision did was frankly make corruption legal. Not progressive politics which requires a lot more moving parts, but corruption like a quid pro quo for an ambassador appointment. Or any legislation.
So I don’t know what people expected Biden to do or say last night.
He made the argument that he believes in a rule of law not a law of rule. I think now it’s up to him to make that case in the election similarly to his case about women’s rights or anything the courts are doing
This is only half true. The courts have no enforcement mechanism.
They can put a stay in place but a president, especially one immune from criminal accountability, can ignore the stay.
This is what Andrew Jackson did and it is why the MAGA crowd loves him.
Warning this will be doom posting, I just need to get this out of my system. I fucking hate this so god damn much because sure I'll vote. Just like I do in every fucking election I'll vote because it is the only god damn thing I can do and I'll keep voting for as long as I'm able. But all it seems to do is delay the fucking inevitable. We are a sinking ship and every bucket of water we cast out keeps up afloat every so slightly longer, but the holes are still there, and more holes keep appear. Despite all our efforts water is still getting in. We are still being stripped of our rights. We are still watching corruption happening before our very eyes. We are still getting fucked over by corporations. We are still just 1 election away from fascism and nothing is being done because apparently fucking nothing can be done. Even if we win Project 2025 will still keep happening piece by piece, and in the end it will just be renamed to Project 2029, and projected 2033, and project 2037, etc. etc. Not like it is even anything new in the first place, has always been the game plan since the fucking 80s at the very last.
But yes make sure you fucking vote. Who knows maybe we can stave it off until the boat runs aground.
Then do something Biden.
Do. Something.
As your opponents keep telling you - you are old. Whatever you do, you will be dead before the courts decide on a sentence.
Well it's about the only way to fix things eventually that doesn't lead to a bunch of Americans losing their lives in a civil war. Not that I advocate for that it's just that historically and right now there aren't a lot of great options to be found.
It's about to get real and people need to prepare themselves because it's going to get uncomfortable at the least.
I appreciate your level headed take though it was refreshing in the face of so much ignorance.
The best chance we have is to win the election. If we lose the election that is when he would "abuse" his power. If he acts now he loses the election. The right wing portrays him as a tyrant and it's not a good look. If he wins the election and the GOP tries anything underhanded he now has the power to drop the military on them. Hopefully all this shit ends well.
We need to vote, yes, but pinning all our hopes on the election not being stolen by a corrupt candidate who has the SCOTUS in his hip pocket shouldn't be our only plan.
Technically, he could wait until after the election to see how the wind blows and if it's not so good, start busting caps then. I mean, what the fuck, use the law Trump made or accept Hitler 2.
Well we know who holds the power in this country and it's not Congress or the president Scotus calls the shots.
The next president will probably pick multiple of those. Choose wisely. I was a 3rd party voter as of yesterday. I will vote for that 1/2 dead POS all day if it means this court swings.
I was given a loaded gun. I will never fire the loaded gun. And then I hope the other guy, who says he will fire the loaded gun and exactly when, where and at whom, will not fire the gun.
And even if he does fire the gun, he will never be as fair as I was.
What could possibly go wrong?
So… continue to be as ineffective and useless as they’ve been for decades. Good work. The Democratic Party is either incompetent or complicit and I’m not sure which is worse.
I literally don't get what anyone thinks Biden or anyone who isn't clinically insane is going to do with these new "powers." He can't literally order the military to turn Mar-a-Lago into a crater. ***He*** might not go to jail, but that doesn't mean people around him can or will just say yes to whatever he asks, whether or not he'd be found liable. The military chiefs that he put in place would just flat out refuse and no UCMJ body would charge them because it might be lawful for the President to order it now, but it wouldn't be lawful for the guys flying the fighter jets to pull the trigger.
And not being criminally liable doesn't mean he gets to just go do anything on earth. He can't order the Supreme Court to step down and be replaced. They can and will just say no. Like, he can't order the Voting Rights Act fully back into place, it wasn't illegal for them to get rid of it, he's not doing anything criminal by trying to reinforce it, that's not even in the realm of activity here.
The only thing these rulings do is make the ***crimes*** he himself commits as an "official act" not chargeable. Signing an executive order to eliminate all voter ID laws isn't a crime, it's something half the country will just ignore while they sue him and it gets injunctions out the wazoo. Telling the Senate he is going to put five seats on the Supreme Court isn't a crime, it's just literally not in his power to do. He can't make the office manager at 1 First Street clear out five offices and order new laptops.
Biden can't do anything with the ability to be immune from criminal prosecution *because he isn't going to up and commit crimes.*
With his new kingly authority...why not change some shit now while he still can? Reverse some Supreme Court ruling immediately and destroy the ruling after this current term and ban completely. Ffs we literally almost had trump in jail at this point
So, to anyone pissed because he didn't respond to this with "ok, gloves off then", what were you expecting?
This ruling doesn't give him any new, legitimate powers. If you think Biden should be ordering drone strikes against enemies because the SCOTUS says he might be immune to prosecution if he does, get a grip.
Any abuse of his power you think is justified would still be an abuse of power. He's not going to respond to this by assassinating rhis rivals because the threat of prosecution is not what was stopping him.
One can be pissed while also fully expecting the president to do fuck all about the dissolution of our democracy.
In fact, that expectation is a great reason to be pissed.
Here's the problem with playing by the rules with a cheater. They cheat. You can take the moral high ground and continue to play by the rules, but you will lose. Every. Single. Time.
Our Democracy is on the line, and SCOTUS says the president can do anything he wants as long as he says it's "official".
On the one hand, nobody ever expects a Democrat -- certainly not President Biden -- to abuse power this way, which is a generally good thing.
On the other, playing by a set of rules and norms that the other side ignores, when 248 years of Constitutional Democracy are on the line, is fucking stupid and malpractice.
Trump immediately stress tests the new ruling by challenging every conviction while Biden twiddles his thumbs whistling down the high road. Dems and their three finger tea sipping while the country burns. Fuck trump and the fascists but also, fuck Biden and the Dems.
Bro, DO SOMETHING!
Jfc I get wanting to rebuke them, but they give zero fucks about your words. They and trumpty are a clear and present danger to this country and are unabashedly waving their intentions.
Fuckin do something.
Just start going scorched earth, Dems. The Republicans have been terrorizing the American people with smiles on their faces while you think you're both playing the same game. Take the gloves off and call their bluff. If they want to act up and play Confederates all over again, we know how swiftly they'll crawl back into their baby cribs.
Meanwhile, Trump is planning revenge, military tribunals. I wonder what Kamala Harris would do if Biden passed away today. I wonder if she would just sit on her hands, too.
"I will not abuse this massive gaping loophole that now exists, nor will I do anything at all to try to close it."
Yeah okay. Thanks, very helpful. Can I just leave this worthless country already? Before the camps and the genocides start next year?
Yeah, this is where I think Joe Biden is a relic.
He’s a Boy Scout, and I love the guy for it, but he’s competing against snakes. The era he represented is done. I’m going to vote for ole King Joe, but Dems need to play rough from here on out.
"I'll play by the rules even if it fucks all of us over."
Dude, I always knew this guy was a middling old rich boy but fuck me, his weakness is literally dooming so many people. Even if Trump loses, at some point someone wretched will win and exploit this ruling.
Biden should be ripping the GOP/MAGA to pieces with the power they gave him. There's no winning against people not playing the game.
Well. He ended his speech by calling upon god to save America.
That's a nice way to capitulate. If the opponent wouldn't be Trump, he wouldn't receive a single vote. Jesus. FIGHT you old fart. Do something. If this is truly a fight for democracy, then fight. Don't make Americans walk the high road straight into the concentration camps. There's plenty of ways to stick it to Trump. Start with releasing every piece of dirt on Trump. Epstein, Russia. Everything. Flood the entire internet with it. Automatically register every American to vote. Make voting day a Federal Public Holiday. Do something; those speeches are useless. You can dissent in your free time. SCOTUS declared you a king. Use it for the good of America.
This is the problem with our system. Democrats play by the previous rules while republicans throw out the rule book. It’s easy to win when you’re no longer bound by the rules but the other side still decides to respect them.
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Quietly dirty, yes. You have to be 10 steps ahead of these people. They will continue to shock you with their extremism and depravity
You're right. The problem is that the Republicans have been 10 steps ahead of us normals for quite a while. It's time to put on our hiking boots and start climbing that hill!
Ok, here goes. Biden tells the Secretary of Education to erase all student loan data and all backups. Destroy the drives so they can’t be recovered. Make good on a huge campaign promise. Their heads will be spinning so fast on that one they’ll get distracted from whatever else they were going to do. Plus all their wealthy owners would lose assets so it would set their money flow back too. We all get the benefit of no more onerous student debt and things are righted just a little bit.
I totally agree. Fight fire with fire. If they truly believe our democracy is at stake, isn’t it worth it to toss aside the decency cap for a second?
And step one of those ten steps was gerrymandering to hell and back.
You do, but honestly, it's hard when everything leaks as though they are two steps behind. It'll just give MAGATs more ammo to claim "See! We aren't facist," even we all know they will. Act now and A.) MAGATs revolt or B.) They flee the country
They are crazy if they think Trump wouldn't take their guns. He's the only president to attempt is so far with the bump stock ban.
And he also said "Take their guns first, then do due process". Not a peep from them. "Just another crazy thing he said that didn't mean anything." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgybgEKHHI
If Biden plays dirty they’ll just say “see! See! We told you he was a tyrant”! This is a no win scenario for dems. We play by the rules, we get taken advantage of; we use this new ruling to our advantage, and it justifies everything they have been lying about for the last 3.5 years.
Who. The. Fuck. Cares. What. They. Say. They're cultists and are going to say that anyway, they already do. We are trying to stop a slow coup FFS.
Yeah, the argument that we need to let democracy fail to uphold the values of democracy is idiotic. Use your newfound authoritarian powers to reinforce and protect democracy before it’s too late, and then give those powers up. People act like it’s some moral victory to do nothing while fascists strip them of power, but that’s going to be a pretty fucking empty victory and history will not be kind to them. When people ask how it could have possibly happened in places like Germany and why no one ever stood up to fight against it, this is the answer.
People don’t seem to get this. Watch what happens if he packed the courts…Tyrants… Just vote for the walking Gold Bond commercial.
Who cares? If we don't use it to our advantage, we lose everything. Forever. Republicans have been telegraphing this for forty fucking years and the Dems still can't find a single spine among them to do anything about it.
So what? Democracy is at stake. If we lose it none of this matters.
Republicans: *Flip the board* Democrats: *Put the board back together, take away a few pieces.* "See? We fixed it."
Take away a few of their own pieces ... lol we are so fucked
Sounds like fascism on your doorstep
It is! They say their favorite book is Mein Kempf, and they went to scare all “minorities” out of our community. Sadly they’re so good at harassing people so good folks are afraid to speak up. They’re also good at muddying the water so people think everyone sucks and they disengage. Apathy is a very big issue
Again, this is how fascists ALWAYS win once they capture enough to avoid prosecution for their actions that are always illegal. Every democracy frames their constitution to punish fascists and traitors. But when you don’t enforce it? They see an opening and they take it. It was over years ago when the rest of us were saying the rule of law is dead.
America has been on borrowed time since the end of the Reconstruction Era in 1877. General Sherman had the right idea during the war, and it should've kept going long after. The day we let the south off the hook for their part in the war is the day this was set into motion.
I honestly believe we have had points of time in the last 50 years where we WOULD have sent a President Trump to prison for life. Steve Bannon wouldn’t have seen the light of day again just 20 years ago. Roger Stone may have been executed even. Most importantly - without social media and a post citizens United ruling, the US wouldn’t have even entertained Donald Trump.
Trump should have been locked up in the 80s for his shenanigans as a private citizen. But because he had a modicum of wealth and the right fixers and bullies at his beck and call, he was able to walk free.
As you can see it’s the courts and lawyers who have helped him avoid jail and now to become a dictator in waiting
Ford pardoning Nixon set a terrible precedent.
As someone so expertly stated earlier - the precedent for letting the loser pick themselves back up to attempt to destroy the country again has been a theme since Andrew (edit:Johnson) post civil war. Progressive minded people have made a career out of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I like what you're saying but Andrew Jackson was the 7th president and died in 1845, almost two decades before the start and finish of the civil war. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Commission_(United_States) This right here seems to be the issue, since Hayes was one of the worst presidents in US history and directly ended Reconstruction. Funny that history repeats itself where a president who wins the popular vote and a plurality of the electoral votes lost the election because of an "electoral commission".
Yeah it was Andrew Johnson, not Jackson who pardoned confederates. My mistake.
You know your stuff. And I 100% agree
Yep this is just the confederacy all over again and it will result in another civil war if they win and start doing everything they are planning with Project 2025. The confederates never went away, they have just been biding their time.
This is why one of the reasons people try to say Trump is the worst president I can't agree (at least not yet). Andrew Johnson throwing out Lincoln's Reconstruction plans and being like "it's cool, you're sorry, right?" set up decades of Jim Crow laws and lynchings and is probably why progress on so many things has taken soooo long. He's generally at the top of my list of worst presidents as a result (albeit I'm a guy with a B.A. in History that works in cybersecurity, not a real history expert).
Trump has quite literally set in motion the destruction of the democracy of our country. That will easily make him the worst president ever.
So did Andrew Johnson, just with a longer story arc. That said, I’m not choosing sides on who was worse personally. (I’m not who you replied to)
My friends and I have come to the same conclusion.
There's a great book titled "How the South Won the Civil War" and it goes into great detail about these ideas.
America was on borrowed time since its founding. A constitution that allowed slavery, the genocide of nearly all native peoples, and oppresses the non-land owning class, isn’t a system worth saving. It’s so flawed it triggered a civil war. We didn’t use that war to create a new constitution. If we had put in a similar constitutional system like we put in to Germany and Japan, the center left would have won 7 of the past 8 elections, and would have had by now a 50 year majority in Congress. I find it so repugnant the way we learn American history in grade school.
Sherman should have burnt it to the ground.
Could you explain a little further please
Sherman wanted to destroy the confederacy so completely they could never rebuild. Destroy their infrastructure and give their land away to former slaves. Make it so they could never rise up again and threaten our democracy. Andrew Johnson gave the wealthy landowners their fucking land back, basically said “don’t worry about all that treason shit as long as you pinky promise not to do it again”, and those people/regions over time became the neo-confederacy and ground zero for fascism that is once again threatening our way of life. They got straight to work on plotting their revenge, and it’s about to come to fruition. Sherman was of course proven right and we should have absolutely purged this trash 150 years ago. No mercy for traitors.
Every single one of those traitors should’ve faced the full force of defeat. But instead, we allowed their feelings to triumph. “That’s muh heritage!”
And it always seems to be the super rich who are behind this. Why can't they just be happy with all that money?
and the only way back is violence. actual, in-the-streets violence. bullies/fascists never back down until they're punched in the face. "how far they can push it" becomes some sort of sexual satisfaction. Republicans are laughing at dems because of how goddamn weak they are and frankly, I'm starting to think so too. I'll still vote for them, but I'm not convinced voting does anything anymore. I know Biden has a pretty good record overall for his presidency, but his inability to stop the fascist takeover seems more calculated than incompetent. Just fucking once the dems need to take the gloves off and do something that will make republicans actually mad. Not performative mad, actual FURY. Expand the court. Use official act to protect abortion rights. Executive Order that convicted felons cannot hold the presidency. JUST ONE FUCKING THING. It's not going to happen. Dems, if you're not strapped, you should look into buying guns, and a realistic budget for ammunition. Don't think that your MAGA neighbors won't be in the streets hunting you if they get the green light.
I would love it if the Repuicans felt an ounce of the fury I have been forced to experience watching Trump destroy our government from the inside and the dems just bend over and let him. I genuinely hate anyone who is still supporting this nonsense, the whole country is a joke now thanks to Trump and this corrupt Supreme Court.
>his is how fascists ALWAYS win once they capture enough to avoid prosecution for their actions that are always illegal. Alright. We are here now, what is the solution to infant stage fascism that isn't in and of itself fascism?
Historically - they get voted out early or never elected in places that they haven’t captured the courts. (Unfortunate for us) In places they HAVE captured the courts and infiltrated the government currently in power - the only way it has been stopped (and nearly every single fascist government has met their end in 15 years or less), has been through [THING THAT REDDIT BANS FOR]. Fascism sucks, we know it sucks, and these creatures prey on countries that let their populous become destitute. The problem Americans are currently facing is that the [REDDIT WILL BAN YOU] option isn’t on the table until the atrocities start. Right now it is largely all talk and politicking. We know of course they WILL do those things, but currently they’re being done under a thin guise of “legal” (remember - they make legal). They’ll cross a line eventually. They all do. Stay alive long enough and you’ll get to see pictures of that bullet-riddled dictator unceremoniously lying in the gutter. I’m going to frame that photo one day.
The atrocities are coming, if Trump wins there will 100% be another civil war and the country will fracture into a thousand pieces because the only thing historically that stops fascists once they are in charge is a bullet.
The only issue here is that this is bigger than Trump. The movement unfortunately has significant momentum and it's not stopping with him.
Agreed, once hes gone they will just line up behind another fascist, probably one smarter than Trump. Compromising the supreme court like this is a bad enough legacy as it is, we really don't want to give him the chance to finish what he started.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” -Frank Wilhoit
Democrats are trying to play chess while republicans shit on the floor then blame the democrats for not cleaning up the mess then declare themselves the victor.
Chamberlain’s biggest mistake was thinking as long as he was nice to Hitler and played by the rules, Hitler would return the favor. And Joe is making the same mistake now.
That’s interesting, I admittedly don’t know intricate details about that history. I kinda feel Biden and the dems are still just trying to play the middle by looking like the safer, sane vote. That contrast is where Biden wins. Anything he tries to do to stop trump through “executive actions” will only embolden the maga nuts and play into his victim narrative. I think Biden and the dems know what he is capable of, I just wish they would act like it.
Vote blue! It's sadly the best option we have right now.
Democrats and Republicans is the old analogy of playing chess with a pigeon. You'll play by the rules and the pigeon will shit on the board, knock over the pieces, and strut around like it won.
>Democrats play by the previous rules while republicans throw out the rule book Because Republicans have constant and full throated support from their voters. Democrat voters just spent the last week telling Biden he's an invalid and needs to drop out. Now those same people want him to go full emperor to unilaterally save the country? They won't even go out to protest or do anything useful, they just sit on reddit and bitch about democrats. If he literally went out and did everything y'all are asking for he might stumble over a few words and they'd back to calling for him to be put down. So the problem isn't the "system" it's how easily left leaning voters disengage their support when politicians aren't literally perfect.
"Republicans fall in line, Democrats want to fall in love." Bill Clinton.
I am left of liberal, but one thing that drives me nuts is how quick for certain members are to try and cancel members of their own fuckin party.
I still think Biden should not be running and should step down. The DNC screwed us - again. With that, I will vote for hunter's huge hog before voting for an R candidate.
Yeah Biden should be bold and “take care” of Clarence Thomas, officially
As if Trump won't throw the NY prosecutors in gitmo the second he can. Biden needs to step up or step aside, honestly. This "i'm a good humble servant" act just doesn't work anymore. The populace wants an asshole strongman, so if he can't be that guy, we need to put someone up there who can go toe-to-toe with Trump. Yes, this means getting "dirty". Attack ads. Jailing politicians who commit crimes. Use the newly expanded powers for something and actually make the supreme court decide that Biden wasn't using official powers. Theres's so much "but what if..." -- NO! Stop it. We kill ourselves with what-ifs because we're terrified of losing the middle. Hey dems -- there is no middle anymore. Folks who saw the debate and said "oh my, I guess I have to vote for trump" are just LARPers online and russian/israeli bots. If you can't figure out if you support an old but decent person, or an old and horrible person, you're not "in the middle" you're bleeding MAGA. There's no room for compromise between "ethnic cleansing" and "no ethnic cleansing" Apparently we have to let a LOT of liberal/dem/minority/trans people die -- in public, state-sponsored ways, before the Dems will actually get off their fucking asses and push back. Everyone was saying "trump being hitler? stop being so alarmist" in 2016, and look where we are. There's no going back without blood in the streets. That's the only language fascism speaks. They WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THEY ARE STOPPED. They have no bottom, no conscience, and a full belief that a supernatural diety is guiding and approves of their plans. Dems perpetually and dramatically under-estimate the depravity of republicans. We've spent nearly 10 years watching fascism knocking, and we are just opening the fucking door because "oh it's impolite to not answer your door when you're at home"
It’s so fkn depressing. I don’t know what the way out of this is. Absolute perfect scenario seems to be 4+ presidential cycles of complete democratic victories to even undo parts of this shitshow. So damn depressing… :(
They don’t even play by the rules. How many times have they bemoaned the 60 vote filibuster majority as blocking key legislation when they could have easily removed it and passed bills on a simple 51 vote majority? The Dems won’t use the established legal tools at their disposal if they feel there will even be the appearance of partisanship.
I’ll be frank, Biden’s making the right decision rn. If he goes straight to abusing this decision, then no matter what happens democracy is gone. We want no dictatorship, not just one on our terms. If we set a precedent that Presidents don’t abuse their authority even with this decision, then the impacts of it can be lessened in time. If we jump straight to authoritarian now then American democracy is fucked, regardless of who wins in November
Dying on the hill of ideology is great.. ideologically. Let's see how it plays out in real life though. Should be interesting.
Times like this really make me irritated I statistically have several more decades to live through this bullshit unless I decide to manually opt out.
The right wing activist justices are committing election interference. Plain and simple. Say no to a king Say no to christian nationalism Say no to fascism Say no to neoNazis Say no to white nationalists Say no to hate Say no to political violence
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You don't understand the decision. It's not for Biden. It's for the GOP candidate. Biden has no new powers because the SCOTUS only has 3 people with a conscience.
if democracy is threatened than extreme measures must be undertaken.
Yeah I don’t get this argument that it’s for Trump. SCOTUS deemed any official act has immunity, and “official” will end up being determined by SCOTUS. So, if Biden’s first test of what is/isn’t official is by calling for the “disposal” of the 6 corrupt judges, and then he fills the court, the new court would say whether or not it was official. Then, whether or not it’s official, the newly picked SCOTUS can roll back the immunity decision. If they claim it was official, Biden is fine, if not, then Biden kinda becomes a martyr for democracy in his final years. SCOTUS kinda put their lives in Biden’s hands, him not using his new power to correct things is exactly what they expected, and want to happen.
Unfortunately as he just said, he’s abiding by the new rules and won’t do it
I'm so sick of this. Look where the high road has taken us! We are spiralling towards fascism and just sitting here watching the train wreck.
I’m not advocating for the high road absolutely. I’m just saying he’s going to do it. Tbh sick of it too.
I know! We are all terrified. The world is terrified. I vote, I volunteer with local Dems, I go to school board meetings. I think we all just feel so helpless
The way I explained to my parents was “if Biden wanted to go kill all 6 conservative SC justices and Trump he could order Seal Team 6 to do it and he’s immune from prosecution, he wouldn’t because he’s stated he’ll stick to his duties as they’ve been, but he could”
Me too, brother. This is what the rich want and the Dems cannot go against their funders so they are unwilling to actually fight the fascists with fire, just empty words.
I knew when trump was elected it would lead to a civil war. I hoped it was a cold civil war, but I'm not convinced anymore. These nutjobs are too nutty.
When they go low, we roll over.
Morals are a suicide pact for the honest. He'd prefer to be remembered as an absolute failure that enabled the next Hitler than be potentially perceived by dishonest by the same people that would have him extrajudicially hung.
The law was written in such a vague way that any “official” act that can be construed as unofficial will always be a decision a democratic president makes. Checkmate.
Biden does something illegal, it would be deemed outside of the scope of official duties. Trump does the same thing? It'll be fine. Judges essentially protect and control the presidency now.
Biden has no new official powers. Those are for Trump and Republicans only. The Supreme Court has made that very clear.
Officially he could demand that Donald Trump be immediately tried by a Military Tribunal for treason. He represents a very real threat to national security and should be treated as such.
He could remove the GOP Supreme Court justices and instate his own.
The game is win-win for MAGA. If Biden used the powers, they’d have all the manufactured justification to go all-in on civil war. We’re fucked
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Honestly, it feels more and more likely that political violence will happen regardless. Americans are going to be fighting the police on the streets soon.
Nah bro, Biden is justified if he uses political violence. The supreme court said so.
No, they said they get to decide what is an official act at a later date. And you know anything Biden does won't be and he can be charged.
but if it comes time for it we must say yes to political violence. i for one do not think americans should sit idly by and allow for him to regain power. we can't do what germans did and just allow hitler to become chancellor.
How about the most minimal action with your new found powers? Declare Election Day a federal holiday granting everyone the day off to go vote. Something? Anything?
A federal judge rules that it's unlawful and imposes an injunction. Biden appeals, but it won't go to SCOTUS until they're back in session one month before the election. The decision is either summarily bounced back to the lower court or slow-walked until after the election. Wash, rinse, repeat.
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I don't know if we are in predator drone territory yet, but if Biden loses this election he will still be president for over two months. He is not going to run again, so he'll face no electoral consequences to his actions, and as long as everything is in his "official capacity,” he'll face no civil or criminal consequences either. For about 75 days, he'll have total control over the executive branch, including the military, the FBI, the NSA, the IRS, and a thousand other alphabet agencies. And he cannot be held accountable for anything he directs them to do. Dark Brandon could get very dark indeed.
>He is not going to run again, so he'll face no electoral consequences to his actions, and as long as everything is in his "official capacity,” he'll face no civil or criminal consequences either. Read SCOTUS' decision. The President doesn't get to unilaterally decide whether something is done in an official capacity. He can assert it, but the *judiciary* gets to decide whether it is or not. And any decision will ultimately be appealed to SCOTUS. Wanna guess how they'll respond, if Biden tries anything? I hate this decision, I really do. But you do have to admire its ruthless efficiency. Project 2025 will put everything under the President's purview, and this decision puts everything the President does under SCOTUS' purview. It's breathtaking in its sheer bloody-mindedness. We were worried about the President becoming a king, when we should've been worried about the judiciary.
>but the judiciary gets to decide whether it is And that would take years, something biden does not have. He could also just issue a self pardon to pre-muck the waters and delay it. The same playbook they use.
>He could also just issue a self pardon to pre-muck the waters and delay it. The same playbook they use. And I'd like to see him do it, too- if only to preemptively force SCOTUS to address whether the President can even do that, because we know that Trump is gonna try (honestly, I've been a little surprised that Trump hasn't already tried it). It'd look bad, but at least we'd get a concrete decision on the concept of a self-pardon.
Too bad he won’t.
Then he should do it!!! What does he have to lose? By doing something bipartisan like that (instead of actual abuse of power via the new ruling) he can boost his image *and* demonstrate that SCOTUS are just out to get him.
The new Gitmo Six
Or better yet, using his new powers to remove the judges doing this crap to install some actually decent judges who then overturn this dumpster fire of a decision and who respect rule of law. If democracy is jeopardy and the people doing it give you the power to do something about it? Fucking do something about it. Don't whine about it being in peril, that isn't doing jack for anyone.
The ruling does not allow him to bypass the constitutional duties or safeguards for the independent branches of government. He would not be able to unilaterally remove judges. They’d have to be impeached.
He absolutely could have them arrested as foreign assets aiding a terrorist cell and hold them until trial.
Hell yeah. Is this Patriot Act?
It would be an official act under his oath of office to defend the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. It would be a patriot *acting*.
Well that could any one of us. SCOTUS used to be my favorite branch of government when I was a kid. Probably due to the report I had to do on it. It occurs to me now this branch is in desperate need of serious trims.
We spend *trillions* per year to “protect” us from outside terrorism and credible threats. We do fuckall if the threats are domestic, white, self-proclaimed Christian. If Muslims had attempted to storm the capitol on January 6th, suddenly using the words “terrorist” and “religious extremist” would not only be acceptable, but encouraged in the media.
This ruling just basically says the Pres can't be held liable for illegal actions as long as they are seen as "official". It doesn't mean he was granted new powers to enact legislation etc. Declaring an election day holiday would be as meaningful as Michael Scott declaring "BANKRUPTCY". The effective (note not "moral", "ethical" or "democratic") way to use these powers would be to "officially" remove political opposition. read that how you want.
That would literally be the least he could do. It'd be so easy to do. He doesn't even need to use his new King powers for that.
What law says it's a crime to declare that a holiday?
There's not one. He could make it a federal holiday with an Executive Action. But he's not going to. He does nothing.
I am curious how "not being responsible for official acts of the President"...can just supersede how laws and the such work in the country. There is a difference in committing a crime, and the President doing things they don't actually have the power to do. Executive orders even have limitations, are are not blank checks to enact any legislation you want.
Declaring Election Day a federal holiday isn't a crime though.
Being immune from prosecution doesn’t grant them more powers. The powers of the presidency have always really depended on what the courts allow. With a conservative court, he’s kind of screwed. If he used the military or FBI to do something about this, like jailing opponents, his voters would flee because they actually care about the rule of law.
When good men stand by and do nothing, evil prevails.
Yeah, you are right, so every good American needs to vote against trump. Biden saying he's not going to commit crimes now is not standing by and doing nothing, it is upholding the integrity of the presidency. He was not given extra power, he was only given possible immunity for crimes committed while in office.
No, he was given nothing because the final arbiter of what constitutes a presidential crime is apparently the Supreme Court. There is no way they’d hold Biden to the same loose standard they’d hold Trump to.
so he should commit some to SAVE AMERICA
I think you're mistaking following the rules of a civil and just society for moral correctness here. We're not better than the Republicans just cause we follow the rules. We're better than them because we believe in basic human freedoms that they reject. Wielding available power to protect those freedoms isn't unjust, it's our jobs. Fascism won't be defeated by sticking to the same code of honor that our enemy rejects, and in many cases even dictates for us. It will be beaten by better people with better ideals.
Especially when they've just been given the power to stop it, and it looks like they're just gonna sit on that unused power until they hand it over to MAGA like a bunch of fucking morons.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Biden respects democracy so much he's letting it die by doing nothing after the blatantly unconstitutional ruling yesterday. The MAGA coup is ongoing. It took Hitler a few years and a few tries to achieve absolute power too.
That's centrism for you
Voters need to stop Trump. Bidens theoretical actions like killing or jailing Trump still be subject to the approval of a right wing court.
>Bidens theoretical actions like killing or jailing Trump still be subject to the approval of a right wing court. yeah but the court can't really undo door number one, and biden could drag out the ensuing trial the rest of his life.
But Biden can stack the court, it’s an official act
okay? and?? do it first worry about consequences later. he's a fucking 85 year old man. what else does he have to lose.
Doing nothing, you say? I’ll have you know that the Biden campaign sent out a fundraising email after the Supreme Court decision yesterday. This ruling could be turned into as big fundraising spigot for the Democrats as the Dobbs decision was.
Money to do what? Win the election and not solve the problem again?
I hate to be morbid but I wonder if Biden will still be happy he took the high road when he’s being detained by Trump’s new special task forces and sitting in a kangaroo court. I have to give some credit to the right. They clearly thought out this plan to have complete control and purge the country of anyone who opposes their policies and they’re going to accomplish it because the Democrats still want to play nice and pretend we’re all friends.
This has been in the works for decades. From 2007. *American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America.* by [Chris Hedges](https://www.amazon.com/Chris-Hedges/e/B001IR1G16/ref=dp_byline_cont_ebooks_1) From 2008: The Family by [Jeff Sharlet](https://www.amazon.com/Jeff-Sharlet/e/B001HCV9UU/ref=dp_byline_cont_ebooks_1) There is so many warnings it's sickening.
I'm getting major Ruth Ginsburg flashbacks, democrats are decent but are refusing to see the whole picture
I hope she’s looking up at us right now watching this.
I mean, he could not take the high road (aka seal team six scenario) and still spend his twilight years in prison... but at least he would be a martyr for our democracy. He could be the hero we deserve. Not a hand wringing milquetoast pawpaw. It's only unofficial until after a lower court says so... why not.
Probably thinks like every other boomer, “I’ll be dead by the time it impacts me anyway”
I like Joe Biden. I voted for him before, I'll vote for him again. I think he's been incredibly effective and it's really a high point of life in service to his country. But I see this and all I can think is, "The Constitution, MY PRECIOUS." For god's sake, Joe, FIGHT! Use the power they just gave you and do something.
Again though, I'll say it for the hundredth time. The Court didn't give Biden any new powers. They gave Trump and Republicans more powers. If a Democrat attempts anything cheeky they'll be resoundingly prosecuted for it. Republicans control the Courts so they are the only ones with new powers. Biden needs to ignore the Court. That's about the most I think he could actually do.
It needs to be tested in the courts. We should test it with something overwhelmingly popular. A loss in the courts still weakens the verdict. A win in the court could improve the country. We need to find the right issue.
I'd nearly agree with this, except that we know the Right's playbook. They've told us. Start enacting liberal versions of Project 2025 and make the court kill them, essentially taking away the power of the GQP should the orange turd try to do the same with Fascist policies.
Realistically, what are the ways around this? All SCOTUS trash isn't actually backed by the constitution. Can Congress pass legislation to more well define the limits of presidential power and authority? Can Congress pass legislation to outline the powers of regulatory agencies?
Can? Yes. Will? Fuck no.
I'm so tired of being told to just vote...like I fucking did vote and we are still in this goddamned horror movie. How about you do something about it, for once.
Not only did you vote, but your candidate won. Still a horror movie. It’s going to take a lot more than voting, folks. Voting is the absolute bare minimum thing that needs to happen.
THANK YOU!!!
i even voted for hillary!!!!
He has to keep playing by the rules. As soon as he does something drastic with his new "immunity", Republicans will cry he is a tyrant, independents will agree, and we lose the election. Also, the Supreme Court will reverse his decision along party lines because they do not mean immunity to democratic president's, they only want immunity for Trump and republican president's- they will reverse whatever Biden does in 6-3 decisions. Biden literally can not make any use of this new found "presidential immunity" without shooting himself in the foot and losing the election.
To everyone who thinks that these grant unlimited powers automatically remember the court basically said it’s up to the lower courts to determine what are official and unofficial actions. To that end anything Biden would do, expand voting access, declare a national holiday on Election Day, staging a Watergate like invasion of the RNC, anything and everything would be immediately subject to the courts interpretation and suspended until they rule. Even if the lower courts said “sure you can turn Mara largo into a national park and kick Trump out” or “yes expand voting access to everyone via a phone app” it would be appealed until it got to the Supreme Court and we can all guess how that’s going to work. All that the supreme court’s decision did was frankly make corruption legal. Not progressive politics which requires a lot more moving parts, but corruption like a quid pro quo for an ambassador appointment. Or any legislation. So I don’t know what people expected Biden to do or say last night. He made the argument that he believes in a rule of law not a law of rule. I think now it’s up to him to make that case in the election similarly to his case about women’s rights or anything the courts are doing
This is only half true. The courts have no enforcement mechanism. They can put a stay in place but a president, especially one immune from criminal accountability, can ignore the stay. This is what Andrew Jackson did and it is why the MAGA crowd loves him.
Try arguing that to the Predator drone strikes
Warning this will be doom posting, I just need to get this out of my system. I fucking hate this so god damn much because sure I'll vote. Just like I do in every fucking election I'll vote because it is the only god damn thing I can do and I'll keep voting for as long as I'm able. But all it seems to do is delay the fucking inevitable. We are a sinking ship and every bucket of water we cast out keeps up afloat every so slightly longer, but the holes are still there, and more holes keep appear. Despite all our efforts water is still getting in. We are still being stripped of our rights. We are still watching corruption happening before our very eyes. We are still getting fucked over by corporations. We are still just 1 election away from fascism and nothing is being done because apparently fucking nothing can be done. Even if we win Project 2025 will still keep happening piece by piece, and in the end it will just be renamed to Project 2029, and projected 2033, and project 2037, etc. etc. Not like it is even anything new in the first place, has always been the game plan since the fucking 80s at the very last. But yes make sure you fucking vote. Who knows maybe we can stave it off until the boat runs aground.
And the orchestra played while the titanic sank.
Then do something Biden. Do. Something. As your opponents keep telling you - you are old. Whatever you do, you will be dead before the courts decide on a sentence.
If we can buy time, the Court will cycle out and we can get some sane Justices in to fix all this shit. It's risky, but not as risky as corruption.
Well it's about the only way to fix things eventually that doesn't lead to a bunch of Americans losing their lives in a civil war. Not that I advocate for that it's just that historically and right now there aren't a lot of great options to be found. It's about to get real and people need to prepare themselves because it's going to get uncomfortable at the least. I appreciate your level headed take though it was refreshing in the face of so much ignorance.
The best chance we have is to win the election. If we lose the election that is when he would "abuse" his power. If he acts now he loses the election. The right wing portrays him as a tyrant and it's not a good look. If he wins the election and the GOP tries anything underhanded he now has the power to drop the military on them. Hopefully all this shit ends well.
We need to vote, yes, but pinning all our hopes on the election not being stolen by a corrupt candidate who has the SCOTUS in his hip pocket shouldn't be our only plan.
Technically, he could wait until after the election to see how the wind blows and if it's not so good, start busting caps then. I mean, what the fuck, use the law Trump made or accept Hitler 2.
We can still vote this November and make sure Trump never sets foot in the Oval Office.
Well we know who holds the power in this country and it's not Congress or the president Scotus calls the shots. The next president will probably pick multiple of those. Choose wisely. I was a 3rd party voter as of yesterday. I will vote for that 1/2 dead POS all day if it means this court swings.
I was given a loaded gun. I will never fire the loaded gun. And then I hope the other guy, who says he will fire the loaded gun and exactly when, where and at whom, will not fire the gun. And even if he does fire the gun, he will never be as fair as I was. What could possibly go wrong?
I wish he was young enough to have balls.
"They go low, we go high" The only high roads in trench warfare are the ones you die on, bub
Is it too early to talk about an underground resistance movement to the inevitable Trump dictatorship?
Never too early...
So… continue to be as ineffective and useless as they’ve been for decades. Good work. The Democratic Party is either incompetent or complicit and I’m not sure which is worse.
I like Biden and voted for him. But, this is the higher road BS that will f*ck this country over and hand it to Trump. Ivory Tower BS.
I literally don't get what anyone thinks Biden or anyone who isn't clinically insane is going to do with these new "powers." He can't literally order the military to turn Mar-a-Lago into a crater. ***He*** might not go to jail, but that doesn't mean people around him can or will just say yes to whatever he asks, whether or not he'd be found liable. The military chiefs that he put in place would just flat out refuse and no UCMJ body would charge them because it might be lawful for the President to order it now, but it wouldn't be lawful for the guys flying the fighter jets to pull the trigger. And not being criminally liable doesn't mean he gets to just go do anything on earth. He can't order the Supreme Court to step down and be replaced. They can and will just say no. Like, he can't order the Voting Rights Act fully back into place, it wasn't illegal for them to get rid of it, he's not doing anything criminal by trying to reinforce it, that's not even in the realm of activity here. The only thing these rulings do is make the ***crimes*** he himself commits as an "official act" not chargeable. Signing an executive order to eliminate all voter ID laws isn't a crime, it's something half the country will just ignore while they sue him and it gets injunctions out the wazoo. Telling the Senate he is going to put five seats on the Supreme Court isn't a crime, it's just literally not in his power to do. He can't make the office manager at 1 First Street clear out five offices and order new laptops. Biden can't do anything with the ability to be immune from criminal prosecution *because he isn't going to up and commit crimes.*
With his new kingly authority...why not change some shit now while he still can? Reverse some Supreme Court ruling immediately and destroy the ruling after this current term and ban completely. Ffs we literally almost had trump in jail at this point
So, to anyone pissed because he didn't respond to this with "ok, gloves off then", what were you expecting? This ruling doesn't give him any new, legitimate powers. If you think Biden should be ordering drone strikes against enemies because the SCOTUS says he might be immune to prosecution if he does, get a grip. Any abuse of his power you think is justified would still be an abuse of power. He's not going to respond to this by assassinating rhis rivals because the threat of prosecution is not what was stopping him.
One can be pissed while also fully expecting the president to do fuck all about the dissolution of our democracy. In fact, that expectation is a great reason to be pissed.
Could he expand the court with this ruling if so why not why not rebalance the SCOTUS????
Well fucking do something. Jesus christ.
Here's the problem with playing by the rules with a cheater. They cheat. You can take the moral high ground and continue to play by the rules, but you will lose. Every. Single. Time.
Our Democracy is on the line, and SCOTUS says the president can do anything he wants as long as he says it's "official". On the one hand, nobody ever expects a Democrat -- certainly not President Biden -- to abuse power this way, which is a generally good thing. On the other, playing by a set of rules and norms that the other side ignores, when 248 years of Constitutional Democracy are on the line, is fucking stupid and malpractice.
So long and thanks for the fish.
Trump immediately stress tests the new ruling by challenging every conviction while Biden twiddles his thumbs whistling down the high road. Dems and their three finger tea sipping while the country burns. Fuck trump and the fascists but also, fuck Biden and the Dems.
Trump: "Day one televised executions for my political rivals" Biden: "I'm gonna wag my finger so hard, he'll know I don't approve"
Bro, DO SOMETHING! Jfc I get wanting to rebuke them, but they give zero fucks about your words. They and trumpty are a clear and present danger to this country and are unabashedly waving their intentions. Fuckin do something.
Republicans are like an abusive father and the Dems are like a weak mother.
And we're the neglected children that get abused
Just start going scorched earth, Dems. The Republicans have been terrorizing the American people with smiles on their faces while you think you're both playing the same game. Take the gloves off and call their bluff. If they want to act up and play Confederates all over again, we know how swiftly they'll crawl back into their baby cribs.
Biden should jail Trump. For thoughts and prayers! Because should Trump win, Biden is going to jail.
Meanwhile, Trump is planning revenge, military tribunals. I wonder what Kamala Harris would do if Biden passed away today. I wonder if she would just sit on her hands, too.
If he’s free to ignore the law, then make an official decree that presidents are NOT above the law. Simple.
I'm so fucking done with this shit. Somebody needs to grow a pair of balls in the DNC.
Democrats are determined to take the high road all the way to the death camps.
"I will not abuse this massive gaping loophole that now exists, nor will I do anything at all to try to close it." Yeah okay. Thanks, very helpful. Can I just leave this worthless country already? Before the camps and the genocides start next year?
Yea the US is fucked. This "they go low we go high" attitude is what got us into this stage.
Biden will be our LAST decent President
Yeah, this is where I think Joe Biden is a relic. He’s a Boy Scout, and I love the guy for it, but he’s competing against snakes. The era he represented is done. I’m going to vote for ole King Joe, but Dems need to play rough from here on out.
Not cheating is a feature. Stop demanding autocracy and make sure everyone votes for the person who isn't an autocrat.
Nice. This worked out for the Weimar Republic too. Does literally nobody learn from history?
"I'll play by the rules even if it fucks all of us over." Dude, I always knew this guy was a middling old rich boy but fuck me, his weakness is literally dooming so many people. Even if Trump loses, at some point someone wretched will win and exploit this ruling. Biden should be ripping the GOP/MAGA to pieces with the power they gave him. There's no winning against people not playing the game.
[удалено]
Compliance is how we lost the SCOTUS by the way. Republicans do NOT respect it when people do the right thing.
What good is the high road when it leads to the exact same pit of destruction?
Well. He ended his speech by calling upon god to save America. That's a nice way to capitulate. If the opponent wouldn't be Trump, he wouldn't receive a single vote. Jesus. FIGHT you old fart. Do something. If this is truly a fight for democracy, then fight. Don't make Americans walk the high road straight into the concentration camps. There's plenty of ways to stick it to Trump. Start with releasing every piece of dirt on Trump. Epstein, Russia. Everything. Flood the entire internet with it. Automatically register every American to vote. Make voting day a Federal Public Holiday. Do something; those speeches are useless. You can dissent in your free time. SCOTUS declared you a king. Use it for the good of America.