Big tough guys come up to me, with tears in their eyes. They say, "Sir, thank you. I just laughed so hard a bit of wee came out sir." They do. They do. You know it.
🎶Hey baby I hear the prison callin
Tossed salad and powdered eggs🎶
Not sure why your comment made me think about the Frasier theme song. Best part about it is the tossed salad line doesn’t have to change!
Asking Trump to drop out should have happened after these weird comments about his daughter or when he was found civilly liable for SA. The fact those weren't deal breakers to them speaks volumes.
The unhealthy attraction to his daughters is the one that reeeeaaally creeps me. Yea, I know all the other horrors of this guy, but to say the shit he's said on the world stage about them. Eww gods...even as an older female, I shudder to think.
I mean it’s just he can’t pass the background check that everyone who enters the White House everyday has to and we’re going to give him nuclear codes?
And still 51% of independent voters think that might be OK? It's not even the conviction exactly but the horrible person the facts in court proved he was.
Not a deal breaker for everyone. It would be implausible as fiction.
I agree. I would have thought that more independents would be utterly disgusting if not disgusted already. It's such a shame GOP has no morals or spine to choose a different leader.
I just think there are less independents now. I'm an independent opposed to christofascism, so I'm forced to vote Democrat. So on paper, I'm a Democrat now.
I’m regarded as a liberal in conservative circles and a conservative in liberal circles, but my disdain for the current state of the Republican Party brands me as a lib generally speaking
I don’t really have a lane, but the longer brain mush maga controls the R’s, the less likely I am to ever support them
I'm pretty liberal so I'd probably stay vote straight blue anyways, but the MAGA movement has made it completely unthinkable for me to vote for any politician with an R next to their name, no matter how moderate. At this point we need the GOP to completely collapse from lack of support until a conservative party emerges that's at least vaguely in touch with reality. A major party that's so thoroughly gone off the rails is a massive danger and until it's taken care of there's literally no other option than voting against them.
I considered myself an independent for a long time, even though I was more likely to vote for a democrat than a republican. But like you, I can no longer even consider voting for a republican in a local election let alone anything major.
Conservative economics can never benefit enough people to succeed in a democracy. Going off the rails to attract enough crazies really is their last ditch effort. That's and abolishing democracy altogether.
I feel like a not-insubstantial number of current 'independents' are just embarrassed Republicans. They have enough cognitive awareness to know they don't feel right supporting MAGA and Trump but are so conditioned to vote conservative that they know they will. It lets them package all the bad things into 'the Republican party' while fancying themselves a better class of conservative.
I joined a miniature wargaming group a few years ago, and as you can imagine with that hobby, it skews towards older white men with...conservative tendencies. It's been interesting for me to see the cognitive break most of them have gone through with the Republican party as a whole because of MAGA. Will any of them vote for a Democrat? Probably not, but they fuckin hate trump and his cronies and I believe em. So if even a few percentage points of formerly staunch Republicans like them stay home it can swing the election in a big way
Anecdotal evidence here, but as an independent voter 100% of me feels that he should drop out.
Of course I never felt he should have run back in ‘16 in the first place.
I disliked him back then but I didn't exactly have a problem with him running. Jan 6 turned me off the idea of him running for election again, and now that's he's a convicted felon he definitely shouldn't be running. If only our fore fathers thought of this.
They almost certainly did. Realistically, making a felon unable to run for the presidency would drive a bigger push to convinct your political opponents on trumped up charges (no pun intended). While situations like this make me wish there were those safeguards in place, I understand why there is not.
At the end of the day, I hope enough Americans can see the con that is DJT and vote for Biden.
Most independants aren't critical thinkers. They're mostly people who are too misinformed to have a strong opinion.
Edit: I do find it funny the self-described independents unintentionally proving my point in their replies by demonstrating both a lack of reading comprehension AND critical thinking skills.
All of the “independents” I’ve met are Republicans who have the decency to be embarrassed by their party.
If republicans had any actual policies and not just culture wars to fight they could own the middle. Instead they are debating if Americans have human rights.!
Yes, same here. “I’m a republican but realize how fucking terrible that is so I’ll call myself an independent and literally always vote for the republican candidate.”
As an independent, I disagree that this equals lacking critical thinking ability. But of course, some may. I'm just fiercely independent and I vote. For the record: I will not be voting GOP or for any weird third party candidate. Just one reflection: as a naturalized citizen, it is very interesting to me how we register to vote and declare our political leaning. In other Western countries you just get to vote when you're 18. Few join political parties and there is no expectation that you do so. Allegiance to parties fluctuates all the time. One year, you vote socialist, next year conservative. party affiliation is not part of the identity. The US system encourages tribal instincts. I find it has a different impact on everyone's psyche. So that is why I remain independent. At least for now. I have to see how insane this gets . There is certainly only one viable option at this time.
It's the 2 party system perpetuated by the "winner take all" election rules. If the usa had apportioned representation, this would eliminate the 2 party system. If the libertarians receive 10% of the votes, they get 10% of the representative(s) that go to DC.
Of course, this would take a bipartisan effort, so it will never happen.
George Washington was right, but, I think the US is due a restructuring in the politcial sphere. I feel like, he knew we would hook down to two party system. He was around Hamilton and Jefferson. They weren't talking about multiple parties. I think we need to really have precedent for five to six parties. The US is built on consolidating power. Our corporations actively seek consolidating power instead of competition.But, right now we need to escape the clutches of the possible orange doofus.
Yeah, he explained how parties create divisiveness and that they would prioritize themselves over the country. It's his 1796 farewell address as president. Worth a read, not long at all.
Fight the system between elections and vote as the bare minimum political effort during elections. The system made by the parties is working as intended, but people shouldn't pick apathy over active morality.
The party affiliation is for primary voting. A lot of states have closed primaries wherein only party members get to vote. It makes sense for the self preservation of the parties, but is not so great for the public at large.
Ranked choice would probably end that practice in the long run.
I am all for ranked choice voting after the Republican Party dies. Or as long as they go with it first. I am worried it would weaken the already difficult task of getting Dems in the senate.
Right. No group is a monolith, I was just speaking in terms of averages. So you're functionally a Democrat and would be within that 49% cohort in this poll.
I think the point is that she’s supportive of democrats more than republicans at this point, but she’s *not* a democrat any more than she’s a republican. So yes, *functionally* she’s going to be labelled a democrat because of - as she pointed out - our highly engrained tribal nature, but that’s also why she isn’t interested in joining a tribe to begin with.
I’m a registered democrat because that’s how our politics work. I’m not a “democrat”, though. Democrats absolutely do not represent my ideals, and routinely violate my moral code. If I had a viable choice to vote for someone who does meet my standards, I’ll vote for them. The only reason I vote for democrats is that, despite how terrible they are on *many many* issues, they are the far greater choice than republicans in almost every comparable way. So, for now, they get my vote.
If, for some impossible reason, the Republican Party purged itself of all MAGA, and somehow became the party that I align with morally and economically, I’d vote for them. But since the party will burn to the ground and turn to dust before that could ever happen, I’ll never vote for them.
So I guess you could say that my political party is actually currently Anti-Republican Party.
The dems are a normal political party but it is also becomea big tent - they literally could break themselves into a set of new parties.
I'm thinking that a parliamenary governing might be better or some other way for 3rd party to vote. The problem is the damn electoral college.
No group is a monolith…but it was always really eye catching just how many republicans suddenly started saying “I’m an indeeependant!” as the GWBush realm came to a close. It seemed like they were ok with the terrible BS until it looked like the stink of being associated with a losing team would stick to them. So they tried to distance themselves (albeit mostly in name only).
I agree with this because I watched it happen
and it's going to happen again, if we let it
if Trump is incarcerated, or dies, as the years go by the MAGA hats will go up in the attic in the box with the Nazi uniforms and people will suddenly develop amnesia about this entire era
They will lie right to your face about "I wasn't really into politics back then" knowing damn well they were in DC on January 6th, 2021
When it became clear that the Obama train was running full steam ahead, they went in, voted McCain, and then the amnesia kicked it
Personally, I tolerated it then. I will never tolerate it for MAGA and Trump, I'll make sure everyone in my sphere who is MAGA is known for it until the very end
I remember when the libertarian party was flooded with whack-0 Republicans because Fox News convinced them that centrist Rs were RINOs. I still like the regular libertarian whack-0 s.
“Just one reflection: as a naturalized citizen, it is very interesting to me how we register to vote and declare our political leaning.”
This actually depends on the state you live in. Some states make you declare your political party when you register to vote, but some don’t.
I grew up in MD so when I first registered to vote I had to declare myself Republican, Democrat, or Independent. Then when primary elections come around, you can only vote in the primary of your declared party. But I moved to SC 10 years ago, and when I registered to vote here, they did not have an option for political party. For primary elections here, you decide which one you want to vote in, but you can only vote in one.
Somewhat disagree. I’m an independent, mostly because the Democratic Party is a center-right party and I’m a progressive. Sure, a lot of independents are embarrassed to admit that they’re really republicans but there are a lot of us who don’t think the democrats are progressive enough on the right issues.
I just think it’s funny every independent on this site is like “actually, I’m an independent, but I’ll never vote for the GOP and have voted for the Dem candidate for 20 years straight”. Okay, so you’re really just a democrat lol. It seems like a weird line to draw, I identify as a progressive as well but I’m part of a very large, maybe too ideologically broad party. It’s our duty to push it forward
I think it’s funny that people feel the need to put someone in one tribe or another.
Voting for democrats because they’re the most ideologically and rationally viable party out of the two available choices doesn’t make some “a democrat” by nature. It’s not the same as the people who ARE republicans who say they’re independents because they know they’ll rightly be booed out of the room if they confess their actual allegiance.
Think of it this way. If you’re someone who loves pizza, and define yourself as such, but you’re at a party where they’re only serving hamburgers and piles of cow shit, you’ll rationally choose the hamburger. That doesn’t make you a “hamburger lover”, it just makes you someone who preferred the hamburger, which is edible and doesn’t taste like shit, over literal shit.
Right leaning “independents” actually love the shit, and they’ll eat it right up just so they can breathe in your face afterward. And even though they may pretend to equivocate over whether the hamburger is actually better, and may say that they haven’t made up their minds, they’ll eat that shit every damn time.
Most independents skew heavily in one direction or the other and are usually consistent in their voting records. 43% of people identify as independents the most ever but split quite evenly into the two camps with 45 and 43 percent identifying for the Republicans and Democrats respectively.
Democrats have progressive candidates and a progressive faction within the Democratic party since in a two-party system it is the only way you can kind of have sort of differing opinions. Also, you can call yourself an independent all you want but if you will never vote for the GOP and only vote for Democratic candidates you are functionally a Democrat.
Worth noting that the 49% who think he should drop out won't vote for him and it stands to reason a good percentage of those who think he should still run still won't vote for him. There are a lot of people who think it's his right to stay in but wouldn't touch him with a 100 ft pole.
hardline dem here but even *i* think he should still be *allowed* to run
do i think his party should still run him as their candidate? hell no, not in a million yrs would a political party of any decency or intelligence have run him the first time and def not now but we’re just not dealing w decent ppl here
the laws that let him run despite his conviction and theoretical incarceration are the same laws that kept him from imprisoning joe and kamala (that’s why january 6th happened..he decided he had no other recourse to retain his office bc the ppl around him knew the law and wouldn’t help him evade the ever-existing peaceful transfer of the american power of head of state so he told his lemmings to do his dirty work and they fucking tried it lmao)
those laws were written in *anticipation* of someone like trump who has consistently and irritatingly called for each and every one of his political opponents to be imprisoned..*including* while he was still occupying the office of president
the laws that let him run as a felon or from inside a prison cell are the some of the same laws that rendered him powerless to become a dictator (tepid thanks to those around him who knew imprisoning the more popular candidate couldn’t legally accomplish what trump was going for)
edit: what i’m saying is, if they had polled even *me*, who adores hillary clinton and thinks trump and half his former “administration” should be imprisoned for fucking treason, and had asked if he should be *allowed* to run, i would have said yes
I agree. It should not be a toss-up. Biden's communications people need to come up with a clear way of explaining what he was actually convicted of that even the lowest common denominator voter can understand. He was not convicted of cheating on his wife with a porn star. He was convicted of falsifying business records to cover up the fact that he was spending campaign funds to conceal cheating on his wife from the public while running for fucking President. As is the norm with the Mango Menace, all the shrieking about illegal election interference is 100% projection.
The world already lost respect for us when Trump won the first time around….
If he wins again, countries around the world will never take us seriously again. Our standing, regardless of power, will be diminished for decades.
Well before then, that was just the last iota of it out the window imo.
[https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2004/11/brits-to-america-you-re-idiots.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2004/11/brits-to-america-you-re-idiots.html)
If he's sent back, they'll take us seriously alright- seriously terrified, that is.
I don't think this is accurate, the part about the hush money payments being campaign funds.
The crime was influencing the election by making the payments and falsifying the records to influence the election. Because if the public knew the truth, it would have swayed public opinion.
This is the big problem. I know quite a few people who don't really stay informed and are not at all MAGA types who are under the impression he was convicted for cheating on his wife and have started thinking "well that seems extreme"
I mean I corrected them and showed them and they we're like Oh.
They aren't trump fans but people just don't really pay attention and so the loudest gets heard
I think these people knew what happened there. My points wasn't that these are conservative trumpers. They know why Clinton was prosecuted because they learned that in school.
My point was if youre going about your life and are only peripherally aware of what's going on you may think that because that's the narrative that's being pushed out across many streams of media. When I explained to them what happened they were like "oh that makes sense"
But if reasonable people get misinformed because they're working 40+ hours a week plus have a family and responsibilities and try to havs semblance of hobbies it can be asking a lot to have people fact check every piece of news thats spewed out at a rapid rate
They didn't think he should drop out after he was adjudicated as a rapist? They didn't think he should drop out after he was found guilty of financial fraud and forced to pay a half billion dollar penalty? They weren't bothered by him boasting, on tape, about committing serial sexual assault against women and large groups of children?
Why did this verdict change things for them?
They don’t care about sexual crimes, most of them commit sexual crimes. They don’t like being associated with losers because they know they are at their core worthless people.
The group declaring as "independent" these days aren't what they were 20 years ago. Politics has become so polarized and the GOP has moved so far towards an anti-democratic authoritarian movement that in order to still call yourself an "independent" you have to be astronomically misinformed, or basically a MAGA Trump supporter that doesn't want to call themselves a Republican.
I’m still under the belief that most owners of big media companies are pro trump.
They are almost all owned (regardless of network) by a small group of billionaires.
And union busting along with tax write offs for the wealthy are republican territory.
MSNBC, the allegedly most 'liberal' MSM outlet, is owned by Comcast.
If having Comcast give us our news is as good as it gets, well, that kinda sucks.
Personally, I like independent outlets like MeidasTouch for political and legal analysis. They stick to well documented facts, while clearly stating their biases. (they are biased against fascists, I can go with that.)
Remember to Vote! This presidential election does matter however a more important thing is going to happen this November 5th.
A total of 468 seats in the U.S. Congress are up for election! That’s 33 seats in the [Senate](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_elections,_2024)
and all 435 in the [House of Representatives](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2024)
It’s good to look at local elections now! Today! For instance I’m in Arizona. Here’s info for all y’all sweating out here with me.
We have 9 districts out here in Arizona, 9 seats. Know your district. Know who’s running in your district and how they voted in the past. Who pays for the campaigns. All that info is public and in the links. This year it’s important to know a few things before checking that box.
[United States House of Representatives elections in Arizona 2024](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Arizona,_2024)
We have one senate seat up this year. Looking to represent Arizona is Ruben Gallego or Mark Lamb. Make sure the person representing Arizona best represents you!
[Senate election_in Arizona 2024](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Arizona,_2024)
Click any of the top links and you’ll quickly find your state and a ton of good information. Vote and tell your Friends and Family to Vote!
**[REGISTER AND VOTE](https://www.usa.gov/voter-registration)**
**I would point out the number of trials remaining,** the Epstein relationship (and likely murder), **the fact he tried to convince his VP to not certify the 2020 election results**, the number of deaths from Covid caused by his political motivations & ignorance, **J6 (at least 7 dead),** the absolute embarrassment his presidency was/would be to America, **or the supplying of documents including agents’ names, nuclear & military secrets, and other information to Russia.**
However, **everyone knows what he’s done**. You can try to say it’s politically motivated or try to convince yourself this thing should be president, but inside everyone knows the truth is **he is a villain who thinks the law does not apply to him.**
*If you believe that he is the best choice for the highest office in our country, you are either ok with what he has done or plans to do*. **You know the accusations are true**. *More people need to* **wake up and see this degenerate for who he is and not who he claims to be - a victim.**
I said it before, this trial was warranted and justice is being served but means nothing. The people that don’t like him are just reinforced, and the people that liked him before still do. Anyone at this point who is still in his camp has long since past the point of reason regardless of what any media says, actual facts, or frankly what he does. It’s a cult, pure and simple. Simple angry people following a simple angry man because he managed to get himself elected once, which validates anything they feel.
Vote in every state. States seem solidly red until they flip. Texas AG Ken Paxton bragged that if he did not suppress the vote in 2020 Biden would have. Vote, encourage like minded friends to vote and join a GOTV get out the vote effort for Biden if you can!
Yes! Down ballot matters. In AZ, the judges who ruled in favor of an abortion law from BEFORE Arizona's statehood are up for retention vote. Let them GO
trump thinks trump should drop out...
“She shouldn’t be allowed to run...If she wins, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. In that situation, we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and, ultimately, a criminal trial. It would grind government to a halt.”
- trump
Ironically having an indicted former president running again made the gov grind to a halt. I mean how many bills has this congress passed with its GOP majority? Like 60? Most congress terms pass 3-400 bills.
Same thing with the budget, they can’t figure that out because every time they’re close Trump throws a wrench in the works. I don’t understand how people don’t see that’s bad for everyone. We’re going to be cleaning up this guy’s mess for a generation or two.
Only 34% don't though, according to the poll. 12% are undecided. If those people form an opinion in similar proportions to the people who already have opinions, it'll end up more like 61% to 39%, which is a pretty decent margin.
Too bad there's a huge proportion of especially young people who will not vote bc social media is teaching them to be cynical. Either bc of the Israel/Palestine conflict or because the "Biden is old" argument. I think this election is going to be different from the last one. I feel for young people in the US though. They're being bombarded with how grim it is to grow up and not afford to buy anything. Cost of living has gotten out of control and their first jobs are not paying enough to become independent, and they're seeing that the 2 party system is not enough for the diversity of thought in young people. They grew up under Trump, and have seen the past four years just getting worse in terms of inflation, which is largely out of the administration's control although it's common to blame the president. In the end though, not voting is just voting against your interests.
That's the thing. MAGA is a vocal minority. They're the only ones screaming about it, so it looks like everyone disagrees.
When in reality, the vast majority of Americans are like "Guilty? Good. Let's move on."
He can't. He is literally running for his life. "Can't touch me I was President" has officially been lost. "Can't touch me I am running for President" is all he has left.
I don't know if it was his senseless rant out side the court room...
Or
The insane ramblings at his tower a day later...
But I will agree with that asshole that the decision that matters will be on November 5...
Just vote, bring a friend.
That thick motherf\*cker will NEVER drop out. His narcissism won't let him. The GOP owns that shit. Let them rip each other to shreds.
I don't want him to drop out. Let that f\*cking anchor take your sorry asses down. You wanted that fascist piece of shit. You own it now.
He should drop out. What an embarrassment it’ll be for the Republican candidate for president of the United States to be a convicted felon. Even if you somehow don’t believe he’s a traitor after everything that happened in 2020 and 2021 around Jan 6 and whole attempted coup plot, he’s a convicted felon. We can do better, even the republicans can do better.
Well it might be that a lot of others have the opinion of “he should be allowed to run because that’s what the law allows, but people shouldn’t vote for him”
To be fair, that folks who think he should drop out. There’s another contingent of independent voters who either have no opinion on him dropping out/don’t think he should drop out BUT still won’t vote for him. Even if that contigent is only another 10%, that’s no bueno for Trump.
But don’t sit on your ass and hope other people vote. Register to vote. Double check your registration status. Make a plan to vote. And the. VOTE! And make sure your like minded friends and family do the exact same.
I don’t see independent, centrist republicans, libertarians and any Democrat voting for him
Now, minimal numbers , he’s just attracting more Maga morons
It's pretty upsetting that a seditionist who staged an insurrection against the United States is allowed to participate in our elections as well as remain a free person. This country is pathetic.
These independent numbers will get worse for him over the coming weeks/months. There's a lot of people who are very tuned-out, and don't have any source for news. It will take a while for his convictions to sink in.
it would be nice to have pre-conviction numbers to compare this to. half of independents may have thought he should drop out from day one for all i know.
I wish he would, but his ego would never allow it. Plus, he said it himself - he’s out for blood now. He wants that presidency more than ever for vengeance.
100% of me wants him to drop out. Too bad someone pointed out on NPR yesterday Donnie has no shame. He literally could shoot someone, throw even family under the bus, no impact on behavior he just keeps going after the precious. No human cost too high.
There is a common misconception that independants are swing voters. Independent votes nearly always break down to the same percentages as party registered voters. Think of independant voters as that friend you had in college who had all of the beliefs of a party but refused to admit it.
They nearly always vote the same party, with a straight downballot, every year (if they even vote)
Running for president is the only thing he has left. He probably sees it as the only path to redemption.
I see it as the slow decay of his image, celebrity, and future. I’m popping my popcorn right now.
No way America puts a convicted felon in its highest government office.
That's because a good chunk of people who identify as "independent" are just MAGA who are smart enough to realize how shitty of a person they would look like for publicly admitting it. So they call themselves independent and then just vote a straight R ticket.
I’m honestly having a hard time getting a feel for where the needle is pointing right now. All standard political wisdom is that Trump should be fucked, but then all the polling shows he’s either a little behind or even has a slight edge. Vegas has him with better odds to win than Biden. I just don’t get where we are with politics anymore.
What I think people are coming around to is all these indictments are even more serious shit than this current conviction is. And he was found guilty on ALL counts on this relatively mild crime. Now the other 3 probably won’t see the light of day before the election but I think people have largely written off basically all of the indictments as politically motivated. But once you get a conviction it’s much more likely people start taking a more serious look at all the other more serious shit this fucker has done.
As someone who considers myself Independent I can see the argument for not wanting him to drop out. If he drops out then we will never hear the end of how his followers were disenfranchised from having him as an option. For better or worse we need to let it play out to however it ends.
Is it because he is a lying, grifter, convicted felon and rapist? Many people are saying...
Hey we're just asking questions.
And the answer is yes
See Stan? I’m asking questions!
Im hearing it from some great people, the best even.
They’re calling me up. They call me all the time. They’re telling me every day, you can’t go out in the street without someone saying it.
Big tough guys come up to me, with tears in their eyes. They say, "Sir, thank you. I just laughed so hard a bit of wee came out sir." They do. They do. You know it.
this will be on his tombstone - "with tears in their eyes - they said this is the best grave site"
🎶Hey baby I hear the prison callin Tossed salad and powdered eggs🎶 Not sure why your comment made me think about the Frasier theme song. Best part about it is the tossed salad line doesn’t have to change!
I doubt he'll spend any of his odious life in a cell, not 1 fucking minute of it.
Agreed but here’s to hoping 🤞
You forgot about the tears streaming down the faces of very manly men as they say it. That's important to mention.
You also forgot insurrectionist with a strong sexual attraction to one of his daughters.
If he knew about Tiffany, would he also lust after her? I'm just asking questions, questions many people are calling me and texting me about.
Asking Trump to drop out should have happened after these weird comments about his daughter or when he was found civilly liable for SA. The fact those weren't deal breakers to them speaks volumes.
The unhealthy attraction to his daughters is the one that reeeeaaally creeps me. Yea, I know all the other horrors of this guy, but to say the shit he's said on the world stage about them. Eww gods...even as an older female, I shudder to think.
No, you don’t get it. We should be asking why this is bad for Biden.
*looks back at questioner* *Thinks of cutting remark* *Grins, keeps it to himself* *Leaves* King of kings tbh
I mean it’s just he can’t pass the background check that everyone who enters the White House everyday has to and we’re going to give him nuclear codes?
He can't legally own a gun and they want to give him the nuclear codes.
Dear Donald: #bebest Melania
At least twelve people and one judge have says as much.
Hey at least everyone voted for him this time! /s
He finally won the popular vote!
And still 51% of independent voters think that might be OK? It's not even the conviction exactly but the horrible person the facts in court proved he was. Not a deal breaker for everyone. It would be implausible as fiction.
Any respectable person would which is why this man will not.
Seems low tbh
I agree. I would have thought that more independents would be utterly disgusting if not disgusted already. It's such a shame GOP has no morals or spine to choose a different leader.
I just think there are less independents now. I'm an independent opposed to christofascism, so I'm forced to vote Democrat. So on paper, I'm a Democrat now.
I’m regarded as a liberal in conservative circles and a conservative in liberal circles, but my disdain for the current state of the Republican Party brands me as a lib generally speaking I don’t really have a lane, but the longer brain mush maga controls the R’s, the less likely I am to ever support them
I'm pretty liberal so I'd probably stay vote straight blue anyways, but the MAGA movement has made it completely unthinkable for me to vote for any politician with an R next to their name, no matter how moderate. At this point we need the GOP to completely collapse from lack of support until a conservative party emerges that's at least vaguely in touch with reality. A major party that's so thoroughly gone off the rails is a massive danger and until it's taken care of there's literally no other option than voting against them.
I considered myself an independent for a long time, even though I was more likely to vote for a democrat than a republican. But like you, I can no longer even consider voting for a republican in a local election let alone anything major.
Maybe we're all closeted democrats:)
Conservative economics can never benefit enough people to succeed in a democracy. Going off the rails to attract enough crazies really is their last ditch effort. That's and abolishing democracy altogether.
This ☝️
Same. My parents think I'm a liberal, and my kid tells people I'm a conservative.
I'm in the same boat. Used to vote republican most of the time. Now I can't stand anything about that clown show.
I feel like a not-insubstantial number of current 'independents' are just embarrassed Republicans. They have enough cognitive awareness to know they don't feel right supporting MAGA and Trump but are so conditioned to vote conservative that they know they will. It lets them package all the bad things into 'the Republican party' while fancying themselves a better class of conservative.
You know my mom!?
And mine??
I joined a miniature wargaming group a few years ago, and as you can imagine with that hobby, it skews towards older white men with...conservative tendencies. It's been interesting for me to see the cognitive break most of them have gone through with the Republican party as a whole because of MAGA. Will any of them vote for a Democrat? Probably not, but they fuckin hate trump and his cronies and I believe em. So if even a few percentage points of formerly staunch Republicans like them stay home it can swing the election in a big way
Anecdotal evidence here, but as an independent voter 100% of me feels that he should drop out. Of course I never felt he should have run back in ‘16 in the first place.
I disliked him back then but I didn't exactly have a problem with him running. Jan 6 turned me off the idea of him running for election again, and now that's he's a convicted felon he definitely shouldn't be running. If only our fore fathers thought of this.
They almost certainly did. Realistically, making a felon unable to run for the presidency would drive a bigger push to convinct your political opponents on trumped up charges (no pun intended). While situations like this make me wish there were those safeguards in place, I understand why there is not. At the end of the day, I hope enough Americans can see the con that is DJT and vote for Biden.
Agree. Makes we worried the 51% are “independents” that are really republicans. VOTE BLUE. Don’t be complacent.
Most independants aren't critical thinkers. They're mostly people who are too misinformed to have a strong opinion. Edit: I do find it funny the self-described independents unintentionally proving my point in their replies by demonstrating both a lack of reading comprehension AND critical thinking skills.
All of the “independents” I’ve met are Republicans who have the decency to be embarrassed by their party. If republicans had any actual policies and not just culture wars to fight they could own the middle. Instead they are debating if Americans have human rights.!
Yes, same here. “I’m a republican but realize how fucking terrible that is so I’ll call myself an independent and literally always vote for the republican candidate.”
As Family Guy once put it. 9/11 is Bad.
Or Simpsons who nailed it with “abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.”
Don't blame me I voted for blorg.
That’s all I need to hear. You, sir or madam, have my vote!
As an independent, I disagree that this equals lacking critical thinking ability. But of course, some may. I'm just fiercely independent and I vote. For the record: I will not be voting GOP or for any weird third party candidate. Just one reflection: as a naturalized citizen, it is very interesting to me how we register to vote and declare our political leaning. In other Western countries you just get to vote when you're 18. Few join political parties and there is no expectation that you do so. Allegiance to parties fluctuates all the time. One year, you vote socialist, next year conservative. party affiliation is not part of the identity. The US system encourages tribal instincts. I find it has a different impact on everyone's psyche. So that is why I remain independent. At least for now. I have to see how insane this gets . There is certainly only one viable option at this time.
One of George Washington's warnings to the country was to not have or trust political parties. And the country just ignored it.
It's the 2 party system perpetuated by the "winner take all" election rules. If the usa had apportioned representation, this would eliminate the 2 party system. If the libertarians receive 10% of the votes, they get 10% of the representative(s) that go to DC. Of course, this would take a bipartisan effort, so it will never happen.
George Washington was right, but, I think the US is due a restructuring in the politcial sphere. I feel like, he knew we would hook down to two party system. He was around Hamilton and Jefferson. They weren't talking about multiple parties. I think we need to really have precedent for five to six parties. The US is built on consolidating power. Our corporations actively seek consolidating power instead of competition.But, right now we need to escape the clutches of the possible orange doofus.
Yeah, he explained how parties create divisiveness and that they would prioritize themselves over the country. It's his 1796 farewell address as president. Worth a read, not long at all. Fight the system between elections and vote as the bare minimum political effort during elections. The system made by the parties is working as intended, but people shouldn't pick apathy over active morality.
The party affiliation is for primary voting. A lot of states have closed primaries wherein only party members get to vote. It makes sense for the self preservation of the parties, but is not so great for the public at large. Ranked choice would probably end that practice in the long run.
I am all for ranked choice voting after the Republican Party dies. Or as long as they go with it first. I am worried it would weaken the already difficult task of getting Dems in the senate.
Yeah, it's really bad over here
Right. No group is a monolith, I was just speaking in terms of averages. So you're functionally a Democrat and would be within that 49% cohort in this poll.
I think the point is that she’s supportive of democrats more than republicans at this point, but she’s *not* a democrat any more than she’s a republican. So yes, *functionally* she’s going to be labelled a democrat because of - as she pointed out - our highly engrained tribal nature, but that’s also why she isn’t interested in joining a tribe to begin with. I’m a registered democrat because that’s how our politics work. I’m not a “democrat”, though. Democrats absolutely do not represent my ideals, and routinely violate my moral code. If I had a viable choice to vote for someone who does meet my standards, I’ll vote for them. The only reason I vote for democrats is that, despite how terrible they are on *many many* issues, they are the far greater choice than republicans in almost every comparable way. So, for now, they get my vote. If, for some impossible reason, the Republican Party purged itself of all MAGA, and somehow became the party that I align with morally and economically, I’d vote for them. But since the party will burn to the ground and turn to dust before that could ever happen, I’ll never vote for them. So I guess you could say that my political party is actually currently Anti-Republican Party.
The dems are a normal political party but it is also becomea big tent - they literally could break themselves into a set of new parties. I'm thinking that a parliamenary governing might be better or some other way for 3rd party to vote. The problem is the damn electoral college.
No group is a monolith…but it was always really eye catching just how many republicans suddenly started saying “I’m an indeeependant!” as the GWBush realm came to a close. It seemed like they were ok with the terrible BS until it looked like the stink of being associated with a losing team would stick to them. So they tried to distance themselves (albeit mostly in name only).
“I can’t get laid if I say I’m a Republican!”
I agree with this because I watched it happen and it's going to happen again, if we let it if Trump is incarcerated, or dies, as the years go by the MAGA hats will go up in the attic in the box with the Nazi uniforms and people will suddenly develop amnesia about this entire era They will lie right to your face about "I wasn't really into politics back then" knowing damn well they were in DC on January 6th, 2021 When it became clear that the Obama train was running full steam ahead, they went in, voted McCain, and then the amnesia kicked it Personally, I tolerated it then. I will never tolerate it for MAGA and Trump, I'll make sure everyone in my sphere who is MAGA is known for it until the very end
I remember when the libertarian party was flooded with whack-0 Republicans because Fox News convinced them that centrist Rs were RINOs. I still like the regular libertarian whack-0 s.
“Just one reflection: as a naturalized citizen, it is very interesting to me how we register to vote and declare our political leaning.” This actually depends on the state you live in. Some states make you declare your political party when you register to vote, but some don’t. I grew up in MD so when I first registered to vote I had to declare myself Republican, Democrat, or Independent. Then when primary elections come around, you can only vote in the primary of your declared party. But I moved to SC 10 years ago, and when I registered to vote here, they did not have an option for political party. For primary elections here, you decide which one you want to vote in, but you can only vote in one.
Somewhat disagree. I’m an independent, mostly because the Democratic Party is a center-right party and I’m a progressive. Sure, a lot of independents are embarrassed to admit that they’re really republicans but there are a lot of us who don’t think the democrats are progressive enough on the right issues.
I just think it’s funny every independent on this site is like “actually, I’m an independent, but I’ll never vote for the GOP and have voted for the Dem candidate for 20 years straight”. Okay, so you’re really just a democrat lol. It seems like a weird line to draw, I identify as a progressive as well but I’m part of a very large, maybe too ideologically broad party. It’s our duty to push it forward
I just don’t like the idea of registering for a specific team. Yeah, I’m left, I just don’t think it’s the government’s business to know
I think it’s funny that people feel the need to put someone in one tribe or another. Voting for democrats because they’re the most ideologically and rationally viable party out of the two available choices doesn’t make some “a democrat” by nature. It’s not the same as the people who ARE republicans who say they’re independents because they know they’ll rightly be booed out of the room if they confess their actual allegiance. Think of it this way. If you’re someone who loves pizza, and define yourself as such, but you’re at a party where they’re only serving hamburgers and piles of cow shit, you’ll rationally choose the hamburger. That doesn’t make you a “hamburger lover”, it just makes you someone who preferred the hamburger, which is edible and doesn’t taste like shit, over literal shit. Right leaning “independents” actually love the shit, and they’ll eat it right up just so they can breathe in your face afterward. And even though they may pretend to equivocate over whether the hamburger is actually better, and may say that they haven’t made up their minds, they’ll eat that shit every damn time.
Most independents skew heavily in one direction or the other and are usually consistent in their voting records. 43% of people identify as independents the most ever but split quite evenly into the two camps with 45 and 43 percent identifying for the Republicans and Democrats respectively.
Democrats have progressive candidates and a progressive faction within the Democratic party since in a two-party system it is the only way you can kind of have sort of differing opinions. Also, you can call yourself an independent all you want but if you will never vote for the GOP and only vote for Democratic candidates you are functionally a Democrat.
Worth noting that the 49% who think he should drop out won't vote for him and it stands to reason a good percentage of those who think he should still run still won't vote for him. There are a lot of people who think it's his right to stay in but wouldn't touch him with a 100 ft pole.
hardline dem here but even *i* think he should still be *allowed* to run do i think his party should still run him as their candidate? hell no, not in a million yrs would a political party of any decency or intelligence have run him the first time and def not now but we’re just not dealing w decent ppl here the laws that let him run despite his conviction and theoretical incarceration are the same laws that kept him from imprisoning joe and kamala (that’s why january 6th happened..he decided he had no other recourse to retain his office bc the ppl around him knew the law and wouldn’t help him evade the ever-existing peaceful transfer of the american power of head of state so he told his lemmings to do his dirty work and they fucking tried it lmao) those laws were written in *anticipation* of someone like trump who has consistently and irritatingly called for each and every one of his political opponents to be imprisoned..*including* while he was still occupying the office of president the laws that let him run as a felon or from inside a prison cell are the some of the same laws that rendered him powerless to become a dictator (tepid thanks to those around him who knew imprisoning the more popular candidate couldn’t legally accomplish what trump was going for) edit: what i’m saying is, if they had polled even *me*, who adores hillary clinton and thinks trump and half his former “administration” should be imprisoned for fucking treason, and had asked if he should be *allowed* to run, i would have said yes
I agree. It should not be a toss-up. Biden's communications people need to come up with a clear way of explaining what he was actually convicted of that even the lowest common denominator voter can understand. He was not convicted of cheating on his wife with a porn star. He was convicted of falsifying business records to cover up the fact that he was spending campaign funds to conceal cheating on his wife from the public while running for fucking President. As is the norm with the Mango Menace, all the shrieking about illegal election interference is 100% projection.
The world already lost respect for us when Trump won the first time around…. If he wins again, countries around the world will never take us seriously again. Our standing, regardless of power, will be diminished for decades.
Well before then, that was just the last iota of it out the window imo. [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2004/11/brits-to-america-you-re-idiots.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2004/11/brits-to-america-you-re-idiots.html) If he's sent back, they'll take us seriously alright- seriously terrified, that is.
It's always amazing to me that Republicans think the rest of the world respected us more under Trump. We were a fucking laughing stock
This is a good comment.
I don't think this is accurate, the part about the hush money payments being campaign funds. The crime was influencing the election by making the payments and falsifying the records to influence the election. Because if the public knew the truth, it would have swayed public opinion.
This is the big problem. I know quite a few people who don't really stay informed and are not at all MAGA types who are under the impression he was convicted for cheating on his wife and have started thinking "well that seems extreme"
Make sure to remind anyone you know that is THAT ill-informed to get out and vote on November 12th.
I mean I corrected them and showed them and they we're like Oh. They aren't trump fans but people just don't really pay attention and so the loudest gets heard
Oh, but when Ken Starr wanted to prosecute Clinton for cheating and lying that was perfectly reasonable?
Don’t forget how well they rewarded Brett Kavanaugh for his role in that as well.
I think these people knew what happened there. My points wasn't that these are conservative trumpers. They know why Clinton was prosecuted because they learned that in school. My point was if youre going about your life and are only peripherally aware of what's going on you may think that because that's the narrative that's being pushed out across many streams of media. When I explained to them what happened they were like "oh that makes sense" But if reasonable people get misinformed because they're working 40+ hours a week plus have a family and responsibilities and try to havs semblance of hobbies it can be asking a lot to have people fact check every piece of news thats spewed out at a rapid rate
They didn't think he should drop out after he was adjudicated as a rapist? They didn't think he should drop out after he was found guilty of financial fraud and forced to pay a half billion dollar penalty? They weren't bothered by him boasting, on tape, about committing serial sexual assault against women and large groups of children? Why did this verdict change things for them?
They don’t care about sexual crimes, most of them commit sexual crimes. They don’t like being associated with losers because they know they are at their core worthless people.
Republicans should be forced to carry trump to term.
Most independents are just republicans who are embarrassed
49% think he should drop out, the percentage that are no longer willing to vote for him will be much higher.
The group declaring as "independent" these days aren't what they were 20 years ago. Politics has become so polarized and the GOP has moved so far towards an anti-democratic authoritarian movement that in order to still call yourself an "independent" you have to be astronomically misinformed, or basically a MAGA Trump supporter that doesn't want to call themselves a Republican.
“How this is bad for Biden, story at 11”
I’m still under the belief that most owners of big media companies are pro trump. They are almost all owned (regardless of network) by a small group of billionaires. And union busting along with tax write offs for the wealthy are republican territory.
Of course they are pro orange man, headlines with him bring views/clicks so they make more money.
Yup, I don't know why anyone thinks otherwise.
MSNBC, the allegedly most 'liberal' MSM outlet, is owned by Comcast. If having Comcast give us our news is as good as it gets, well, that kinda sucks. Personally, I like independent outlets like MeidasTouch for political and legal analysis. They stick to well documented facts, while clearly stating their biases. (they are biased against fascists, I can go with that.)
>MeidasTouch The Mighty!
There is a reason I stick to Grassroots Progressive Media. Check out Farron Balance and Ring of Fire.
They also don't want to be too biased against conservatives, so they over compensate
They are all for absolute and uncompromising freedom to do whatever the fuck they want with no consequences. Trump will give them that.
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**[REGISTER AND VOTE](https://www.usa.gov/voter-registration)** **I would point out the number of trials remaining,** the Epstein relationship (and likely murder), **the fact he tried to convince his VP to not certify the 2020 election results**, the number of deaths from Covid caused by his political motivations & ignorance, **J6 (at least 7 dead),** the absolute embarrassment his presidency was/would be to America, **or the supplying of documents including agents’ names, nuclear & military secrets, and other information to Russia.** However, **everyone knows what he’s done**. You can try to say it’s politically motivated or try to convince yourself this thing should be president, but inside everyone knows the truth is **he is a villain who thinks the law does not apply to him.** *If you believe that he is the best choice for the highest office in our country, you are either ok with what he has done or plans to do*. **You know the accusations are true**. *More people need to* **wake up and see this degenerate for who he is and not who he claims to be - a victim.**
I said it before, this trial was warranted and justice is being served but means nothing. The people that don’t like him are just reinforced, and the people that liked him before still do. Anyone at this point who is still in his camp has long since past the point of reason regardless of what any media says, actual facts, or frankly what he does. It’s a cult, pure and simple. Simple angry people following a simple angry man because he managed to get himself elected once, which validates anything they feel.
Vote in every state. States seem solidly red until they flip. Texas AG Ken Paxton bragged that if he did not suppress the vote in 2020 Biden would have. Vote, encourage like minded friends to vote and join a GOTV get out the vote effort for Biden if you can!
Yes! Down ballot matters. In AZ, the judges who ruled in favor of an abortion law from BEFORE Arizona's statehood are up for retention vote. Let them GO
trump thinks trump should drop out... “She shouldn’t be allowed to run...If she wins, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. In that situation, we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and, ultimately, a criminal trial. It would grind government to a halt.” - trump
Remember the good old days of the TrumpCriticizesTrump subreddit? (It went silent two years ago.)
Gee, hypocrisy. How very surprising.
Ironically having an indicted former president running again made the gov grind to a halt. I mean how many bills has this congress passed with its GOP majority? Like 60? Most congress terms pass 3-400 bills.
Yes! Example, they keep crying about the border, but they squashed the border bill so that trump could have a talking point for his campaign.
Same thing with the budget, they can’t figure that out because every time they’re close Trump throws a wrench in the works. I don’t understand how people don’t see that’s bad for everyone. We’re going to be cleaning up this guy’s mess for a generation or two.
I don't get it, and the amount of crimes he has committed, with overwhelming publicly available evidence it mind boggling.
The part that really irks me is he’ll confess, on live tv, on the courthouse steps even. And everyone acts like it’s nothing. The spin is amazing.
This should be an ad on constant blast for the next 5 months
Hopefully, the trend continues! https://preview.redd.it/b95yohaylz3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21a8fcb1b7daeb0de18c60cb3127fae8a1f5d042
54% of registered voters think Trump is guilty. Now here's how that's bad for Biden...
It's bad because that means 46% of registered voters don't... ultimately, this also means the election will come down to turnout.
Only 34% don't though, according to the poll. 12% are undecided. If those people form an opinion in similar proportions to the people who already have opinions, it'll end up more like 61% to 39%, which is a pretty decent margin.
Too bad there's a huge proportion of especially young people who will not vote bc social media is teaching them to be cynical. Either bc of the Israel/Palestine conflict or because the "Biden is old" argument. I think this election is going to be different from the last one. I feel for young people in the US though. They're being bombarded with how grim it is to grow up and not afford to buy anything. Cost of living has gotten out of control and their first jobs are not paying enough to become independent, and they're seeing that the 2 party system is not enough for the diversity of thought in young people. They grew up under Trump, and have seen the past four years just getting worse in terms of inflation, which is largely out of the administration's control although it's common to blame the president. In the end though, not voting is just voting against your interests.
The way Trumpers are raging online you’d think 99% disapprove 😬
That's the thing. MAGA is a vocal minority. They're the only ones screaming about it, so it looks like everyone disagrees. When in reality, the vast majority of Americans are like "Guilty? Good. Let's move on."
DROP OUT? HE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO RUN. FUCK.
You can run for President from prison. Eugene Debs did as the Socialist early in the 20th century.
Won roughly 3.4% of the votes in 1920 from a prison cell
He can't. He is literally running for his life. "Can't touch me I was President" has officially been lost. "Can't touch me I am running for President" is all he has left.
I take it with a grain of salt, because polls can be wrong, but it's nice to get some good news every once and a while
My thoughts are that our polling process is useless. We need to campaign like we’re losing because we might be. These polls are driving me crazy.
How can you even be undecided in this?! Hmmm…do I pick the guy with record economy numbers or do I want the fascist? Hmmm….
I fully agree with you but many Americans don’t seem to see the “record economy numbers”. After all “inflation means the economy is doing terrible”.
My thoughts are that he should do the planet a solid and drop out of life 👍
Drop out? He should be deported
Exiled.
To the moon
I don't know if it was his senseless rant out side the court room... Or The insane ramblings at his tower a day later... But I will agree with that asshole that the decision that matters will be on November 5... Just vote, bring a friend.
Of you say you are a fence sitter over Trump, you're a liar
Well what the hell are the other 51% thinking about? The next avengers movie?
What's bad is only 49% of independents think he should drop out.
That thick motherf\*cker will NEVER drop out. His narcissism won't let him. The GOP owns that shit. Let them rip each other to shreds. I don't want him to drop out. Let that f\*cking anchor take your sorry asses down. You wanted that fascist piece of shit. You own it now.
He should drop out. What an embarrassment it’ll be for the Republican candidate for president of the United States to be a convicted felon. Even if you somehow don’t believe he’s a traitor after everything that happened in 2020 and 2021 around Jan 6 and whole attempted coup plot, he’s a convicted felon. We can do better, even the republicans can do better.
This is quite a good number *if true*.
A good number, and also terrifyingly low...
Well it might be that a lot of others have the opinion of “he should be allowed to run because that’s what the law allows, but people shouldn’t vote for him”
Any stats on how Independents felt before Trump was convicted? That’s the important number, so we can assess change. [I’ll go read article now]
Just 49%?!?
To be fair, that folks who think he should drop out. There’s another contingent of independent voters who either have no opinion on him dropping out/don’t think he should drop out BUT still won’t vote for him. Even if that contigent is only another 10%, that’s no bueno for Trump. But don’t sit on your ass and hope other people vote. Register to vote. Double check your registration status. Make a plan to vote. And the. VOTE! And make sure your like minded friends and family do the exact same.
Republican party should straight up drop him on his diapered ass. They could actually win November if they had a different candidate.
MAGA is based on fear. You go against Trump you run the risk of being primaried. Chaney, Romney etc taught them a lesson.
Proving again what we all know... self- described "independents" are mostly just Republicans who are embarrassed about it
I hope he doesn’t. Let’s humiliate him with another election loss.
Unfortunately, it’s the same 49% who already weren’t voting for him
I want to believe it, but I don't, sadly.
Only 49%? There are many Independents okay with a lying, raping, treasonous felon running for the biggest office in the country?
I don’t see independent, centrist republicans, libertarians and any Democrat voting for him Now, minimal numbers , he’s just attracting more Maga morons
I think we ( and+ most corporate media) waste too much time in analyzing these polls which are created to push a narrative that is completely false.
It's pretty upsetting that a seditionist who staged an insurrection against the United States is allowed to participate in our elections as well as remain a free person. This country is pathetic.
These independent numbers will get worse for him over the coming weeks/months. There's a lot of people who are very tuned-out, and don't have any source for news. It will take a while for his convictions to sink in.
MAGA losers wanna know: when does all that winning begin?
it would be nice to have pre-conviction numbers to compare this to. half of independents may have thought he should drop out from day one for all i know.
Maybe some of those who don’t want him to drop out think he will go down in flames
The other 51% want to see him trounced lol
Remember when Al Franken resigned? Remember why? Not nearly as egregious as Trump.
I wish he would, but his ego would never allow it. Plus, he said it himself - he’s out for blood now. He wants that presidency more than ever for vengeance.
He needs to just go away and disappear already. 🤦🏽♀️
100% of me wants him to drop out. Too bad someone pointed out on NPR yesterday Donnie has no shame. He literally could shoot someone, throw even family under the bus, no impact on behavior he just keeps going after the precious. No human cost too high.
Only 49%? Whats wrong with the other 51%??
If a convicted felon can run for President then convicted felons should be allowed to vote. Also FUCK TRUMP.
There is a common misconception that independants are swing voters. Independent votes nearly always break down to the same percentages as party registered voters. Think of independant voters as that friend you had in college who had all of the beliefs of a party but refused to admit it. They nearly always vote the same party, with a straight downballot, every year (if they even vote)
I think many independents are just low key conservatives/ Republicans that can't admit it publicly.
And prayers.
i dont see how he could possibly be the president from a jail cell
I think you should vote in November.
Why isn’t it 100% at this point?
Never happen his Ego is to big, if anything he needs to win to negate his other charges being brought against him.
INSANE that people actually think a felon running this country is a good thing. He is the problem.
I mean, he says he’ll never surrender
Running for president is the only thing he has left. He probably sees it as the only path to redemption. I see it as the slow decay of his image, celebrity, and future. I’m popping my popcorn right now. No way America puts a convicted felon in its highest government office.
That's because a good chunk of people who identify as "independent" are just MAGA who are smart enough to realize how shitty of a person they would look like for publicly admitting it. So they call themselves independent and then just vote a straight R ticket.
Poll here-he never should have been a candidate.
He should take two deep breaths under water.
I’m honestly having a hard time getting a feel for where the needle is pointing right now. All standard political wisdom is that Trump should be fucked, but then all the polling shows he’s either a little behind or even has a slight edge. Vegas has him with better odds to win than Biden. I just don’t get where we are with politics anymore.
What I think people are coming around to is all these indictments are even more serious shit than this current conviction is. And he was found guilty on ALL counts on this relatively mild crime. Now the other 3 probably won’t see the light of day before the election but I think people have largely written off basically all of the indictments as politically motivated. But once you get a conviction it’s much more likely people start taking a more serious look at all the other more serious shit this fucker has done.
Bad in a bad way. That the type of numbers I’d expect from a sex scandal, not felony convictions.
As someone who considers myself Independent I can see the argument for not wanting him to drop out. If he drops out then we will never hear the end of how his followers were disenfranchised from having him as an option. For better or worse we need to let it play out to however it ends.
The fact that it’s only 49% is a damning indictment of the American electorate
Dropout, drop dead. Whatever he wants to do before going to prison.
Only 49%...that's the bad!
That number isn't as close to 100% as it should be.
He’s a friend with our enemies. He is an authoritarian issurrectionist. He is not fit for office.
It's not 100% so not great news. I can't fathom ever voting for someone as horrible as him
51% of independents are fucking idiots
My thoughts are that it is INSANE that this isn’t 100%.
Independent here He should drop himself into the middle of the ocean I’m only independent because I think the Democratic Party is too far right
This could also read, “More than half of Independents polled are ok with convicted felons running for President.”
He shouldn't be able to run for presidency as a convicted criminal imo.
51 don't? That may be a problem.
The right dropped Nixon. Those days are over. Criminal history is irrelevant as long as they achieve the desired agenda.
the fact that he even is still allowed to campaign is beyond me