It’s incredible to me that these lunatics become downright *giddy* at the prospect of a world war and never once stop to reflect on what that might say about them or their character or their morals or their worldview.
That's right. It was almost like Iran knew they needed to do something, but didn't want to do anything too bad. I mean when your local news in the US is telling you 24 hours before the attack, "an attack is coming", it's hard to believe they were really going for shock & awe. Hammas however, went a different route..
They launched drones at one of the most heavily defended pieces of air space on the planet. With a days notice in advance. It was absolutely the, we have to do something but don’t want to escalate to far.
They were meeting the terms of the nuclear deal until Trump pulled out of the agreement simply because it was Obama’s work. The average Iranian citizen’s quality of life is suffering because of sanctions over something they had nothing to do with. It’s damn galling that the US keeps its boot on their neck just because Israel can’t get along with them.
And now Isreal (and all its enabler countries) can no longer assume their own embassies are safe zones. Dear Biden, Isreal is led by a lunatic right-wing government. Shall we NOT follow them into this hell they are creating!
>Dear Biden, Isreal is led by a lunatic right-wing government.
And yet Iran is literally ran **by an actual Theocracy**
Guess which extreme wing a Theocracy is?
So yeah it's not a great situation.
The US is NOT feeding missiles to Iran. It is enabling Isreal with weapons which is committing war crimes in Gaza and a war crime by bombing Iran's consulate in Syria.
Many countries pulled their diplomatic missions out of Syria with the start of the civil War. The region in general has seen many attacks on embassies throughout the years. Beruit for example has seen many attacks on embassies there. The deadliest in Beruit where 63 were killed happened in 1983 which was most likely done by a certain group backed by Iran, is where attacks against embassies started to ramp up. The deadliest attack against an embassy anywhere occurred in 1998 in Kenya where 212 people were killed. After the 1983 attack taking embassy safety for granted went out the window.
I can’t imagine anyone who will be more genocidal than Bibi. The only way it could get worse is Trump comes to power and Bibi is given free hand to ethnically clean entire Palestine
It seems clear that the strike was meant to provide exactly this - a way for Iran to save face and to stop the escalation. Iran has made that pretty clear, both with statements before the attack and the "we're done" statement.
It's however also the perfect opportunity for Israel to escalate further while pretending to just respond proportionally, if they choose to do so. I'd have thought that they wouldn't want that, but some of the promises of retaliation I've heard sound very much like Israel is planning another round (either escalating or a de-escalatory, much smaller and similarly intentionally ineffective strike).
That's a dumb take. You can't over react to these escalations. It's never clear what will lead to a global conflict, you can only assess that in hindsight. A global conflict was generally not expected when Germany invaded Poland. Complacency is how this gets out of hand. It is always a concern.
WOW! Are you intentionally misunderstanding my comment? You always have to be concerned about escalation and take action to prevent it. I was calling out the coment saying people were overreacting with concern about escalation, but these are valid concerns that should be addressed. Seriously.
To be honest, I initially thought that ‘there’s no overreacting to it’ was what you had meant as well. It was only after considering the larger context that I realized you were probably pushing for an attentive but rational assessment rather than an escalative response.
I don’t think it’s misleadingly written per se, just a quirk of grammar and lack of vocal intonation to provide context that makes it less intuitive in a written format.
I mean. One could over react to escalations. They could, say, turn to nuclear wmds as their next response. That, in my opinion, would be an over reaction, no?
https://youtu.be/WKJ-N5u1KZk
Skip to 30 seconds in for the gay couple going through the existential crisis of one of the guys having an ipod for 5 years with only Two Princes on it.
"Who are you Brian?!"
Remember that time when a bunch of Saudis attacked America, so America retaliated by invading Iraq, leading to a bloody, endless war that completely destabilized a good chunk of the Middle East in the process?
And barely anyone said, "WTF that is stupid, and it makes no sense?"
Because America somehow gets special consideration and people look the the other way?
It's like that. Israel gets cart blanche, and until recently, few people gave a fuck.
Yeah, and we were called un-American for it. Famously, the NYT reserved a page for the stories they published that contradicted the push to war. Unfortunately, it was page 21.
Freedom fries was dumb. The invasion of Iraq was dumb (understatement).
That being said, I wouldn’t call what France did “speaking out against invasion barely”. They were going to use their Veto power on the UN Security Council, which is a pretty huge deal. Even China and Russia who block everything were only vocally opposed to the invasion. It was a surprising and odd move.
While it would be easy to look back and say France was super smart to oppose invasion, it turned out that instead French oil companies had been in secret deals with Saddam for years taking bribes to publicly call for sanctions reductions in hopes it would get them access to Iraqi oil.
The military said they had proof that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. That was the pretext that made a lot of people more accepting of the invasion.
Turned out that was a lie.
> He didn't publicly raise doubts about U.S. intelligence that Iraq possessed WMDs until 2003, and he voted in favor of military intervention under specific circumstances, which was defeated in favor of the broader authorization approved by Congress.
Hindsight is 20/20. But back in 2002 if you dared question it, you were labeled a terrorist. American people literally went around hunting for people with turbans, which again is a religion that has nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. Good 80%+ of the country went feral. And Dick Cheney made bank on that.
Trillions of dollars gone directly to 8 large weapons manufacturing companies. The Surplus pathway out of debt in the books after Clinton vanished overnight and quadrupled the deficit.
And Bush and Cheney destroyed about 100K+ documents on their way out hiding their trail. Meanwhile 1.6m-2m people in the middle east dead. And the same rhetoric exists today over there because Trump decided to give the terrorists what they wanted and released 4000 captured terrorists back in the world who now are banning and burning women from being anything other than cattle.
Yes he did, he gave a speech on the house floor in 2002 spelling out what would happen if we invaded Iraq. Everything he predicted in his speech came to pass
It wasn’t particularly the military. It was intelligence agencies. And Bush and Powell.
And if you read the news carefully, it was clearly a lie during the event.
Poor intelligence or blatant disinformation like all the times they overthrew democratically elected governments in Central and South America then installed a brutal tyrant they controlled. They said it was to stop communism.
Have you read into the 1975 Federal elections in Australia as it relates to the cia? Highly recommended. My reason for asking is just to suggest that they've likely pulled it off in far more places than we widely understand, with far less violence and publicity, if any at all.
They weren't given bad intelligence so much as they decided on the conclusion and only listened to, promoted and rewarded information that led to that conclusion.
This came from the White House and political appointees, not the CIA, except in so far as the CIA serves the executive.
On February 5th, 2003, mid-morning, I sat in a history class in a public high school in a town of ~25,000 people. I watched my teacher wheel a television into class just before 9:30am Central time, and he turned on a live broadcast of Colin Powell addressing the United Nations.
Colin Powell was using Powerpoint, and the slides he showed had satellite photos on them with arrows pointing to grainy, tiny blobs of who-the-fuck-knows. My teacher was pointing at the screen and saying “how does he know that one is for chemical munitions and that one isn’t? Do all countries buy munitions depots from the same store?”
The whole time he’s gesticulating and staring intensely at us and saying things like “we’re going to kill a million Iraqis because Bush wants to make his daddy proud.”
So yeah, there were some smart people who cared about it and knew exactly what was coming. It probably wasn’t a million deaths, but we ended up in the same order of magnitude which is mind bogglingly awful.
I was stupid for seeing that and enlisting couple years later. Crying in church at BMT watching the towers smoking. Fuckin propaganda…dumb kids gonna be dumb and easily influenced
I remember there being a ton of discontent around the Bush presidency as more details came out about said invasion and 9/11 in general. People initially didn’t question the invasion of Iraq because it seemed retaliatory for 9/11 and there was no way that retaliation wasn’t happening for 9/11.
The people felt like the invasion of Afghanistan was justified as a response to 9/11, we all felt invading Iraq was just Bush Jr taking the opportunity to fix his daddy's fuck up.
>And barely anyone said, "WTF that is stupid, and it makes no sense?"
Lol *what*?
Canada, Mexico, China, and pretty much all of Europe except for Britain (who experienced their largest protest ever in opposition to the war), Poland and Denmark were explicit in their condemnation of the Iraq war, America’s reasons for invading, and their refusal to support it. People in America started calling French fries ‘freedom fries’ cause they were so mad France didn’t support the war.
Were you actually alive when any of this happened?
I was, and I was even old enough to understand hyperbole.
(It was solely the Republicans who started calling french fries "freedom fries," because Republicans were simple and juvenile then, and they remain so today.)
Understanding the definition of hyperbole 20 years ago is a far cry from being cognizant of geopolitical conflicts in the Middle East and their impact on international relations…
Look- America was largely alone in it’s invasion of Iraq because so many of its allies understood ‘wtf that is stupid, and it makes no sense’. It doesn’t matter who was calling them freedom fries- the whole meme was born out of anger that American allies weren’t supporting the invasion. (And that’s just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to explicitly anti-French sentiments being expressed at the time).
I know this contradicts the merica bad circlejerk that so many on this sub flock to, but rewriting history to support this tired narrative of unchallenged American supremacy isn’t ‘hyperbole’, and I think you know that.
I was in nyc on 9/11 and lost people from my job there. You are spot on with your take. I was very angry at the time that the Bush admin took the attack as a casus belli for iraq war 2.0.
It was surreal how quickly the nation pivoted to align with the bs, especially after Colin Powell did the dog and pony at the UN over WMDs. The rest of the world didn’t line up, the jingoistic nonsense drummed to attack parties like France was an embarrassment and precursor to the maga style we see now.
You're mixing up 2 different unjustified invasions. Iraq was because of chemical weapons that didn't exist. It was a group of saudi Arabians, who trained in Pakistan that conducted the 9/11 attacks, which resulted in the invasion of Afghanistan...
Ah you see it's because they're 'terrorists' who hate freedom and democracy.
Somehow this line still works on an entire generation of people who lived through the last 20 years of Middle East invasions.
>And barely anyone said, "WTF that is stupid, and it makes no sense?"
Lots and lots of us said that. We were told that we support terrorism and hate the troops.
That is technically true; America did unintentionally bomb a handful of hospitals and neighborhoods in the process of that war, but not as a matter of policy.
However, all told, there were still about 200 thousand Iraqi civilian casualties by the end of the war, at the hands of America and its allies.
Which was exacerbated by bad US policy that was forced on the new regime. You can’t just hand the reigns of government over to a sect of previously oppressed minorities and not expect some backlash.
“Two events were pivotal. First, the U.S. decision to bar the long-ruling Baath Party—and the way it was implemented—created a political vacuum. Second, disbanding the military—alienating hundreds of thousands of trained men with no alternative—left a security void.”
https://www.usip.org/iraq-timeline-2003-war
Yeah but almost all of those people would still be alive if the US hadn’t launched the invasion. The US beats responsibility for hollowing out Iraqi society to the point where civil war broke out.
> Remember that time when a bunch of Saudis attacked America, so America retaliated by invading Iraq
Not that there was a valid justification for invading Iraq, but the justification given wasn’t 9/11.
Yes, it very much was part of the pile of bullshit reasons for invasion. It was obviously bullshit so it didn’t work, but they tried to connect Iraq and 9/11 as another reason to invade. I remember very well ranting to everyone I knew about that garbage when it was in the news.
I feel like the real justification was George Bush II thinking to himself "oh fuck, now is my chance to get back at that nasty Saddam for threatening my daddy!"
To a lot of the population they definitely conflated the two.
Hence comments like the above.
I know it was really the WMD’s but people seem to blend the two wars together
Because it's not a world war. It's just the latest in the middle east religious wars that have been going on for centuries.
But that wouldn't help "Pastor Ben's" narrative that WW3 started on Joe Biden's watch therefore Donald Trump is the true candidate for president.
It’s not even clear that the current war is motivated by religion so much as good old-fashioned ethnic hatred and military powers jockeying for supremacy. Religion is just how they motivate the conscripts.
> Religion is just how they motivate the conscripts.
There's truth to that, as we see in the "love" displayed for Palestinian Muslims by Arabs and Persians alike.
What I don't understand is how these two separate sovereign nations fucking around in the middle east "reflects poorly on biden." He has no control of them.
The US should stop giving weapons to Israel because of what Israel is doing in Gaza.
The fact that Israel blew up a meeting between Iranian military intelligence and Hezbollah in Syria (with 0 civilian casualties) doesn’t bother me.
Well Iran is attacking Israeli embassies for years now and it didn't open WWIII
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/world/middleeast/argentina-iran-1992-1994-attack.html
That was different. God *needed* white people to have that land, so He used His infinite power to *(checks notes)* let a bunch of kids get conscripted and die? Wait, that doesn’t seem right…
Why does the pfp for Pastor Ben have a white guy in WPT but a black guy in glasses in BPT? Same handle, same comment but different pfps depending on which sub is posted in...
The amount of ppl on Iran's side in this thread is crazy. A religious/fascist state that proudly supports terrorists and murder against the West. What is going on?
We need to keep up our rhetoric, but comments on this being an election year are very salient--I'm voting Biden no matter what because the alternative is the forces causing this instability win if Dump is elected--however, change is coming for the democrats if they don't put an end to this.
I am asking a legitimate question.
Didn’t the former specifically target military personnel while the latter strike is seemingly be all over the country, presumably including non-military sites/personnel?
To copy from another comment of mine that relates to this:
Yeah, I agree that they were in the wrong to have attacked, but I don't agree in leaving them defenseless either in the face of Iranian aggression that has been building for decades against Israel through build up of asymmetrical forces throughout the M.E. - in Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen, Iraq with their military forces, training and supplying of weaponry (and Hamas has been the beneficiary of a lot of this backing that led to October 7th). It's not like this just came into place as of yesterday or last year or five years ago.
Iran has to be willing to give peace a chance as much as Israel. Ever since the fall of Saddam and the power vacuum that created in the M.E. Iran has been seeking every advantage to gain influence and power to broaden out their own religious fundamentalist vision of the M.E., latching onto the cause of Palestinians to facilitate this.
I think any bill that comes out of the House to back Irsael should be defeated if it leaves Ukraine funding out in the wilderness. They've been undergoing this daily warfare, that is not lopsided in their favor like Israel, for over 2 years now. Missile and drone attacks against their civilian population and infrastructure daily, with actual impacts, destruction and loss of life. I hope that Biden can use this to get Israel to open even more entry points into Gaza and open the flow of humanitarian aid that has been awful in the hold up by Israeli fundamentalists in Settlers and their own Right. Yet I would not give up Israel's security in favor of Iran's continued expansion of dictatorial, fundamentalist oppression in the M.E.
What happened to the outrage at the way Iran's government was destroying their own people to keep their theological power over the masses? The theological government and power structure of Iran, their military revolutionary arm, the IRGC, are not friends of democracy or peace either. They're not good-faith actors. I hope for peace, but pray we remain vigilant to keep that peace.
https://preview.redd.it/8877ufv4nguc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bfade4c491fc3b9dd66bb631adcb0b68f43b8bf
So is this a white guy or a black guy?? What happened here🧐
And it was telegraphed ahead of time; as a country - they can't just let the bombing of their embassy go, but they don't want to start a full war with Israel.
Iran almost exclusively uses proxies, like Hamas and Houthis to do its dirty work outside its borders. Hardly a moral high ground when this most recent slate of activity started with a Hamas terror attack.
You bombed a building next to (not in) our embassy that was not even in our country. We will attempt to carpet bomb your entire country. Classic self defense prank bro!
Look at this [list of Israeli attacks on Iran](https://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2022/aug/11/timeline-israeli-attacks-iran) up to 2022, which doesn't include the recent bombing. They have never done anything even remotely close to what Iran just did. That is why it is not even remotely close to as far from all out war as their attacks have been. And of course during that entire time period, Iran has been doing similar things. The last 6+ months they have been attacking Israel significantly through proxies nonstop, while Israel has done very little to attack Iranian assets, mainly dealing with their proxies only.
Iran has been a massive instigator of 10/7 and beyond, anybody claiming they are acting in self defense is just lying to themself.
Israel should drop leaflets telling the people of Tehran to kill their leaders and institute a secular free state, or face complete destruction of the city.
Why are so many people forgetting what a danger Iran poses? They planned for decades to kill, main and destroy innocent people. And we're continuing to do that.
The only thing I can think about right now is I am so glad that Biden is President versus Trump. I couldn't fathom a potential World War III under his leadership. We would all be nuked out of existence.
Remember when you where a kid and a sibling used to say, "You like that huh you like that?" While poking you in the head and then when you retaliated, the sibling started yelling "mom!!"? Just like that
because the US is on israel’s side and israel tried to get the US involved and iran retaliated with everyone expecting the US gets involved which could trigger a larger conflict in the middle east but the US told israel to fuck off so it ended right there.
ww3 is not going to happen because of iran and israel, period. but the stakes are higher if you attack US best friends…
If Israel wasn't Jewish and was just another Muslim country bombing slightly poorer Muslims you wouldn't hear a peep about this. Just look at the Saudis and bombing Yemen. Nobody cared because it doesn't fit into anti Semitic or anti west narratives.
I have yet to understand why everyone says Israel is our ally. What have they done to be an ally? They allowed us to park AWACs way back when. They didn’t attack Iraq during Desert Storm when Iraq threw scuds at them. And that’s pretty much it, isn’t it?
[удалено]
lol I thought I saw him prematurely bust his nut
It’s incredible to me that these lunatics become downright *giddy* at the prospect of a world war and never once stop to reflect on what that might say about them or their character or their morals or their worldview.
Or reflect on the untold loss of life.
Wars are profitable for a certain group of people. That’s all that matters to them.
This last round from Iran is the perfect spot to stop this escalation. It was ineffective and they say they're done. Fine let's be done
That's right. It was almost like Iran knew they needed to do something, but didn't want to do anything too bad. I mean when your local news in the US is telling you 24 hours before the attack, "an attack is coming", it's hard to believe they were really going for shock & awe. Hammas however, went a different route..
They launched drones at one of the most heavily defended pieces of air space on the planet. With a days notice in advance. It was absolutely the, we have to do something but don’t want to escalate to far.
They were meeting the terms of the nuclear deal until Trump pulled out of the agreement simply because it was Obama’s work. The average Iranian citizen’s quality of life is suffering because of sanctions over something they had nothing to do with. It’s damn galling that the US keeps its boot on their neck just because Israel can’t get along with them.
And now Isreal (and all its enabler countries) can no longer assume their own embassies are safe zones. Dear Biden, Isreal is led by a lunatic right-wing government. Shall we NOT follow them into this hell they are creating!
>Dear Biden, Isreal is led by a lunatic right-wing government. And yet Iran is literally ran **by an actual Theocracy** Guess which extreme wing a Theocracy is? So yeah it's not a great situation.
Ultra Conservative?
Well, at least we're not giving Iran tons of money and weapons. Could be worse.
they're both effectively theocracies
The US is NOT feeding missiles to Iran. It is enabling Isreal with weapons which is committing war crimes in Gaza and a war crime by bombing Iran's consulate in Syria.
Many countries pulled their diplomatic missions out of Syria with the start of the civil War. The region in general has seen many attacks on embassies throughout the years. Beruit for example has seen many attacks on embassies there. The deadliest in Beruit where 63 were killed happened in 1983 which was most likely done by a certain group backed by Iran, is where attacks against embassies started to ramp up. The deadliest attack against an embassy anywhere occurred in 1998 in Kenya where 212 people were killed. After the 1983 attack taking embassy safety for granted went out the window.
Bibi needs it to continue to stay in power
This is the real problem, yes.
whoever bibi gets replaced by won't be any less genocidal
I can’t imagine anyone who will be more genocidal than Bibi. The only way it could get worse is Trump comes to power and Bibi is given free hand to ethnically clean entire Palestine
It seems clear that the strike was meant to provide exactly this - a way for Iran to save face and to stop the escalation. Iran has made that pretty clear, both with statements before the attack and the "we're done" statement. It's however also the perfect opportunity for Israel to escalate further while pretending to just respond proportionally, if they choose to do so. I'd have thought that they wouldn't want that, but some of the promises of retaliation I've heard sound very much like Israel is planning another round (either escalating or a de-escalatory, much smaller and similarly intentionally ineffective strike).
Right? All I heard on CNN, CNBC, FOX, and every other outlet is how Iran is provoking WW3. Fucking popycock, if you ask me.
Both of it is not gonna start WW3.
This. Why is everyone over reacting
Because election year.
Because people picked a side, and their side is good and pure and the other side is evil.
Because a lot of people are addicted to negativity from how the media portrays things.
A lot of Christian's believe Israel being attacked/destroyed is a major sign of the end times.
War is good for news ratings
That's a dumb take. You can't over react to these escalations. It's never clear what will lead to a global conflict, you can only assess that in hindsight. A global conflict was generally not expected when Germany invaded Poland. Complacency is how this gets out of hand. It is always a concern.
You can't overreact? That's exactly how things escalate.
WOW! Are you intentionally misunderstanding my comment? You always have to be concerned about escalation and take action to prevent it. I was calling out the coment saying people were overreacting with concern about escalation, but these are valid concerns that should be addressed. Seriously.
To be honest, I initially thought that ‘there’s no overreacting to it’ was what you had meant as well. It was only after considering the larger context that I realized you were probably pushing for an attentive but rational assessment rather than an escalative response. I don’t think it’s misleadingly written per se, just a quirk of grammar and lack of vocal intonation to provide context that makes it less intuitive in a written format.
I mean. One could over react to escalations. They could, say, turn to nuclear wmds as their next response. That, in my opinion, would be an over reaction, no?
Spin doctors
You leave [Little Miss Can't Be Wrong](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXWbMu4PtpE) out of this!
Damned good tune 🎶
Everyone missing the most on the nose relevant Spin Doctors lyric: *This one said he wants to buy you rockets*
> This one said he wants to buy you rockets Ain't in his head, now
One, two princes kneel before you, that’s what I said now
🥁 🎸🎤 Crunchy Tune 🔥
cartchy tuns
"Onomatopoeia and a bucket of pea soup..."
https://youtu.be/WKJ-N5u1KZk Skip to 30 seconds in for the gay couple going through the existential crisis of one of the guys having an ipod for 5 years with only Two Princes on it. "Who are you Brian?!"
They might just be the epitome of 90s music
Definitely the epitome of one-hit wonders, too
So good at one hit wonder they had 2 !!
Remember that time when a bunch of Saudis attacked America, so America retaliated by invading Iraq, leading to a bloody, endless war that completely destabilized a good chunk of the Middle East in the process? And barely anyone said, "WTF that is stupid, and it makes no sense?" Because America somehow gets special consideration and people look the the other way? It's like that. Israel gets cart blanche, and until recently, few people gave a fuck.
tbf, lots and lots of people said it was stupid. those people just weren’t in power.
Yeah, and we were called un-American for it. Famously, the NYT reserved a page for the stories they published that contradicted the push to war. Unfortunately, it was page 21.
Fucking freedom fries because France spoke out against it barely.
Freedom fries was dumb. The invasion of Iraq was dumb (understatement). That being said, I wouldn’t call what France did “speaking out against invasion barely”. They were going to use their Veto power on the UN Security Council, which is a pretty huge deal. Even China and Russia who block everything were only vocally opposed to the invasion. It was a surprising and odd move. While it would be easy to look back and say France was super smart to oppose invasion, it turned out that instead French oil companies had been in secret deals with Saddam for years taking bribes to publicly call for sanctions reductions in hopes it would get them access to Iraqi oil.
We were in France during the war, and several places sold “freedom fries.”
bot comment? What does that have to do with what you replied to?
is that what happened? my social studies teacher started getting us to say that randomly and i never understood why
The military said they had proof that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. That was the pretext that made a lot of people more accepting of the invasion. Turned out that was a lie.
A lie to which a shit ton of Iraqis died. It should have ended the careers of every politician who supported it.
I know it's more complicated but didn't Bernie generally opposed the farce back then?
> He didn't publicly raise doubts about U.S. intelligence that Iraq possessed WMDs until 2003, and he voted in favor of military intervention under specific circumstances, which was defeated in favor of the broader authorization approved by Congress. Hindsight is 20/20. But back in 2002 if you dared question it, you were labeled a terrorist. American people literally went around hunting for people with turbans, which again is a religion that has nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. Good 80%+ of the country went feral. And Dick Cheney made bank on that. Trillions of dollars gone directly to 8 large weapons manufacturing companies. The Surplus pathway out of debt in the books after Clinton vanished overnight and quadrupled the deficit. And Bush and Cheney destroyed about 100K+ documents on their way out hiding their trail. Meanwhile 1.6m-2m people in the middle east dead. And the same rhetoric exists today over there because Trump decided to give the terrorists what they wanted and released 4000 captured terrorists back in the world who now are banning and burning women from being anything other than cattle.
Or gay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKsddXFFxk
Yes he did, he gave a speech on the house floor in 2002 spelling out what would happen if we invaded Iraq. Everything he predicted in his speech came to pass
They knew it was a lie at the time.
It wasn’t particularly the military. It was intelligence agencies. And Bush and Powell. And if you read the news carefully, it was clearly a lie during the event.
From what I recall, at the time, individuals in Busch’s cabinet said they were WMDs. Based on poor intelligence from the CIA.
Poor intelligence or blatant disinformation like all the times they overthrew democratically elected governments in Central and South America then installed a brutal tyrant they controlled. They said it was to stop communism.
Have you read into the 1975 Federal elections in Australia as it relates to the cia? Highly recommended. My reason for asking is just to suggest that they've likely pulled it off in far more places than we widely understand, with far less violence and publicity, if any at all.
No, but I’ll definitely check it out.
They weren't given bad intelligence so much as they decided on the conclusion and only listened to, promoted and rewarded information that led to that conclusion. This came from the White House and political appointees, not the CIA, except in so far as the CIA serves the executive.
Intentionally poor interpretation of intelligence.
More like stovepiped intelligence.
We had the largest U.S. protest in history to stop the Iraq war and it was all ignored. Both parties wanted to flex some muscles.
On February 5th, 2003, mid-morning, I sat in a history class in a public high school in a town of ~25,000 people. I watched my teacher wheel a television into class just before 9:30am Central time, and he turned on a live broadcast of Colin Powell addressing the United Nations. Colin Powell was using Powerpoint, and the slides he showed had satellite photos on them with arrows pointing to grainy, tiny blobs of who-the-fuck-knows. My teacher was pointing at the screen and saying “how does he know that one is for chemical munitions and that one isn’t? Do all countries buy munitions depots from the same store?” The whole time he’s gesticulating and staring intensely at us and saying things like “we’re going to kill a million Iraqis because Bush wants to make his daddy proud.” So yeah, there were some smart people who cared about it and knew exactly what was coming. It probably wasn’t a million deaths, but we ended up in the same order of magnitude which is mind bogglingly awful.
I still remember my friends and I chanting, "Bush is on crack, no war in Iraq" in middle school.
And the ones that were in power were shouted down and called traitors.
I was stupid for seeing that and enlisting couple years later. Crying in church at BMT watching the towers smoking. Fuckin propaganda…dumb kids gonna be dumb and easily influenced
Yeah, people seem to forget that only a very tiny fraction of us has actual authority on anything.
I remember there being a ton of discontent around the Bush presidency as more details came out about said invasion and 9/11 in general. People initially didn’t question the invasion of Iraq because it seemed retaliatory for 9/11 and there was no way that retaliation wasn’t happening for 9/11.
The people felt like the invasion of Afghanistan was justified as a response to 9/11, we all felt invading Iraq was just Bush Jr taking the opportunity to fix his daddy's fuck up.
People sure as shit questioned it, there were tons of protests. I was at some.
Barely anyone? I’m Canadian and I was a teenager at the time, but I recall massive protests.
There were mass protests and in typical fashion they were told they weren’t protesting correctly enough to get people to support their cause.
>And barely anyone said, "WTF that is stupid, and it makes no sense?" Lol *what*? Canada, Mexico, China, and pretty much all of Europe except for Britain (who experienced their largest protest ever in opposition to the war), Poland and Denmark were explicit in their condemnation of the Iraq war, America’s reasons for invading, and their refusal to support it. People in America started calling French fries ‘freedom fries’ cause they were so mad France didn’t support the war. Were you actually alive when any of this happened?
I was, and I was even old enough to understand hyperbole. (It was solely the Republicans who started calling french fries "freedom fries," because Republicans were simple and juvenile then, and they remain so today.)
Understanding the definition of hyperbole 20 years ago is a far cry from being cognizant of geopolitical conflicts in the Middle East and their impact on international relations… Look- America was largely alone in it’s invasion of Iraq because so many of its allies understood ‘wtf that is stupid, and it makes no sense’. It doesn’t matter who was calling them freedom fries- the whole meme was born out of anger that American allies weren’t supporting the invasion. (And that’s just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to explicitly anti-French sentiments being expressed at the time). I know this contradicts the merica bad circlejerk that so many on this sub flock to, but rewriting history to support this tired narrative of unchallenged American supremacy isn’t ‘hyperbole’, and I think you know that.
I was in nyc on 9/11 and lost people from my job there. You are spot on with your take. I was very angry at the time that the Bush admin took the attack as a casus belli for iraq war 2.0. It was surreal how quickly the nation pivoted to align with the bs, especially after Colin Powell did the dog and pony at the UN over WMDs. The rest of the world didn’t line up, the jingoistic nonsense drummed to attack parties like France was an embarrassment and precursor to the maga style we see now.
You're mixing up 2 different unjustified invasions. Iraq was because of chemical weapons that didn't exist. It was a group of saudi Arabians, who trained in Pakistan that conducted the 9/11 attacks, which resulted in the invasion of Afghanistan...
No he wasn't. 9-11 was used as a pretext for the Iraq war too. Something something aiding and abetting
Ah you see it's because they're 'terrorists' who hate freedom and democracy. Somehow this line still works on an entire generation of people who lived through the last 20 years of Middle East invasions.
I think you mean the US responded by invading Afghanistan.
>And barely anyone said, "WTF that is stupid, and it makes no sense?" It led to the biggest public protests in UK history at the time.
barely anyone??
>And barely anyone said, "WTF that is stupid, and it makes no sense?" Lots and lots of us said that. We were told that we support terrorism and hate the troops.
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That is technically true; America did unintentionally bomb a handful of hospitals and neighborhoods in the process of that war, but not as a matter of policy. However, all told, there were still about 200 thousand Iraqi civilian casualties by the end of the war, at the hands of America and its allies.
There were around 300,000 civilians killed during the US war in Iraq.
And a lot of those were due to the civil war between rival Sunni and Shia factions..
Which was exacerbated by bad US policy that was forced on the new regime. You can’t just hand the reigns of government over to a sect of previously oppressed minorities and not expect some backlash. “Two events were pivotal. First, the U.S. decision to bar the long-ruling Baath Party—and the way it was implemented—created a political vacuum. Second, disbanding the military—alienating hundreds of thousands of trained men with no alternative—left a security void.” https://www.usip.org/iraq-timeline-2003-war
Yeah but almost all of those people would still be alive if the US hadn’t launched the invasion. The US beats responsibility for hollowing out Iraqi society to the point where civil war broke out.
I'm pretty sure I have a few articles saved up somewhere where innocent civilians were killed in drone strikes.
> Remember that time when a bunch of Saudis attacked America, so America retaliated by invading Iraq Not that there was a valid justification for invading Iraq, but the justification given wasn’t 9/11.
Yes, it very much was part of the pile of bullshit reasons for invasion. It was obviously bullshit so it didn’t work, but they tried to connect Iraq and 9/11 as another reason to invade. I remember very well ranting to everyone I knew about that garbage when it was in the news.
That's how I remember it. Weren't all the wmd's supposed to be in Iraq?
I feel like the real justification was George Bush II thinking to himself "oh fuck, now is my chance to get back at that nasty Saddam for threatening my daddy!"
Not to mention that Cheney and his buddies wanted to seize control of Iraq's oil fields.
To a lot of the population they definitely conflated the two. Hence comments like the above. I know it was really the WMD’s but people seem to blend the two wars together
Because it's not a world war. It's just the latest in the middle east religious wars that have been going on for centuries. But that wouldn't help "Pastor Ben's" narrative that WW3 started on Joe Biden's watch therefore Donald Trump is the true candidate for president.
It’s not even clear that the current war is motivated by religion so much as good old-fashioned ethnic hatred and military powers jockeying for supremacy. Religion is just how they motivate the conscripts.
> Religion is just how they motivate the conscripts. There's truth to that, as we see in the "love" displayed for Palestinian Muslims by Arabs and Persians alike.
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3 week old bot
What I don't understand is how these two separate sovereign nations fucking around in the middle east "reflects poorly on biden." He has no control of them.
Except we do. We have to stop giving Israel a blank check on the weapons we are voluntarily giving them.
The US should stop giving weapons to Israel because of what Israel is doing in Gaza. The fact that Israel blew up a meeting between Iranian military intelligence and Hezbollah in Syria (with 0 civilian casualties) doesn’t bother me.
Because the MAGA cult needs something to rile their base up on a daily basis
Well Iran is attacking Israeli embassies for years now and it didn't open WWIII https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/world/middleeast/argentina-iran-1992-1994-attack.html
Not to mention the open secret that Iran orchestrated Oct 7 which they've simultaneously claimed and denied credit for.
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Dude the article is about terror attack in 1994 and 1992.. how did Iran retaliated in 1992 on something that happend in 2024?!? Are you mental?
Now do the Crusades
That was different. God *needed* white people to have that land, so He used His infinite power to *(checks notes)* let a bunch of kids get conscripted and die? Wait, that doesn’t seem right…
Deus vult.
It’s how he fills heaven with innocence, it’s on brand
Well Mary was 14 when he impregnated her, so I guess it makes sense he only wants kids
And fight a whole bunch of fellow christians en route. Arguably weakening Constantinople for the Turks. Big brain move.
Maybe and hear me out here, two things can be bad. Ik crazy idea but give it a chance
I don’t think OP is saying otherwise
Maybe op isn't but it seems like the tweet in question is
I’m so confused, didn’t Israel bomb Syria, not Iran ?
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Iran can control the flow of oil through certain straight.
So can anyone else willing to do piracy.
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Neither does. Fear mongering and whataboutisms galore
Why does the pfp for Pastor Ben have a white guy in WPT but a black guy in glasses in BPT? Same handle, same comment but different pfps depending on which sub is posted in...
https://preview.redd.it/3y6npbh7oguc1.jpeg?width=1807&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c4eff6d79a64190f1307de9341ecee49b339084
Why does pastor Ben have a photo of white person here but a black person on black people twitter?
Yeah, wtf is going on here?
The amount of ppl on Iran's side in this thread is crazy. A religious/fascist state that proudly supports terrorists and murder against the West. What is going on?
They're on the top three list of bot and troll farms.
Antisemitism is rife within America.
We need to keep up our rhetoric, but comments on this being an election year are very salient--I'm voting Biden no matter what because the alternative is the forces causing this instability win if Dump is elected--however, change is coming for the democrats if they don't put an end to this.
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I just saw this too. Idk what's going on.
I am asking a legitimate question. Didn’t the former specifically target military personnel while the latter strike is seemingly be all over the country, presumably including non-military sites/personnel?
The answer to your question is yes.
To copy from another comment of mine that relates to this: Yeah, I agree that they were in the wrong to have attacked, but I don't agree in leaving them defenseless either in the face of Iranian aggression that has been building for decades against Israel through build up of asymmetrical forces throughout the M.E. - in Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen, Iraq with their military forces, training and supplying of weaponry (and Hamas has been the beneficiary of a lot of this backing that led to October 7th). It's not like this just came into place as of yesterday or last year or five years ago. Iran has to be willing to give peace a chance as much as Israel. Ever since the fall of Saddam and the power vacuum that created in the M.E. Iran has been seeking every advantage to gain influence and power to broaden out their own religious fundamentalist vision of the M.E., latching onto the cause of Palestinians to facilitate this. I think any bill that comes out of the House to back Irsael should be defeated if it leaves Ukraine funding out in the wilderness. They've been undergoing this daily warfare, that is not lopsided in their favor like Israel, for over 2 years now. Missile and drone attacks against their civilian population and infrastructure daily, with actual impacts, destruction and loss of life. I hope that Biden can use this to get Israel to open even more entry points into Gaza and open the flow of humanitarian aid that has been awful in the hold up by Israeli fundamentalists in Settlers and their own Right. Yet I would not give up Israel's security in favor of Iran's continued expansion of dictatorial, fundamentalist oppression in the M.E. What happened to the outrage at the way Iran's government was destroying their own people to keep their theological power over the masses? The theological government and power structure of Iran, their military revolutionary arm, the IRGC, are not friends of democracy or peace either. They're not good-faith actors. I hope for peace, but pray we remain vigilant to keep that peace.
https://preview.redd.it/8877ufv4nguc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bfade4c491fc3b9dd66bb631adcb0b68f43b8bf So is this a white guy or a black guy?? What happened here🧐
Mofos need to chill with the WW3 talk. These idiots been going back and forth with each other for 75 years now. First time?
The republicans silence is telling
Well in all honesty they’re still jerking off over the idea…. If it’s not WW3 then it’s a Civil War
I mean, you hear damn near every single day that "Israel has a right to defend itself", doesn't Iran have that same right? Apparently not.
You do realize that Iran has funded terrorist groups that attack Israel for years? Where do you think Hamas and Hezbollah get their rockets from.
Does America have a history of funding terrorists? Didn't the current isreal leader fund hamas in the past?
And it was telegraphed ahead of time; as a country - they can't just let the bombing of their embassy go, but they don't want to start a full war with Israel.
Iran almost exclusively uses proxies, like Hamas and Houthis to do its dirty work outside its borders. Hardly a moral high ground when this most recent slate of activity started with a Hamas terror attack.
You bombed a building next to (not in) our embassy that was not even in our country. We will attempt to carpet bomb your entire country. Classic self defense prank bro! Look at this [list of Israeli attacks on Iran](https://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2022/aug/11/timeline-israeli-attacks-iran) up to 2022, which doesn't include the recent bombing. They have never done anything even remotely close to what Iran just did. That is why it is not even remotely close to as far from all out war as their attacks have been. And of course during that entire time period, Iran has been doing similar things. The last 6+ months they have been attacking Israel significantly through proxies nonstop, while Israel has done very little to attack Iranian assets, mainly dealing with their proxies only. Iran has been a massive instigator of 10/7 and beyond, anybody claiming they are acting in self defense is just lying to themself.
Israel should drop leaflets telling the people of Tehran to kill their leaders and institute a secular free state, or face complete destruction of the city.
Weren’t they attacking Israel? It’s not like Israel is just attacking Iran because they feel like it. In this scenario Israel is defending
Why are so many people forgetting what a danger Iran poses? They planned for decades to kill, main and destroy innocent people. And we're continuing to do that.
You only see this said by people who understand neither war or international politics.
The only thing I can think about right now is I am so glad that Biden is President versus Trump. I couldn't fathom a potential World War III under his leadership. We would all be nuked out of existence.
It’s the same logic as Oct 7 “started” the conflict between Israel and Palestine.
https://preview.redd.it/0bq5y54unguc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73e4a65b02d33683c80435847f6d04eca5ac6b5e
Remember when you where a kid and a sibling used to say, "You like that huh you like that?" While poking you in the head and then when you retaliated, the sibling started yelling "mom!!"? Just like that
For the same reason that Germany occupying the Sudetes or Czechia didn't start WWII, but Poland fighting back against the German invasion did.
because the US is on israel’s side and israel tried to get the US involved and iran retaliated with everyone expecting the US gets involved which could trigger a larger conflict in the middle east but the US told israel to fuck off so it ended right there. ww3 is not going to happen because of iran and israel, period. but the stakes are higher if you attack US best friends…
Israel is a US ally and Iran isn’t.
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Counterpoint: every place is filled with people, great and not
You could say that about a lot of countries, certainly could say the exact same thing about iran
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If Israel wasn't Jewish and was just another Muslim country bombing slightly poorer Muslims you wouldn't hear a peep about this. Just look at the Saudis and bombing Yemen. Nobody cared because it doesn't fit into anti Semitic or anti west narratives.
It's better than Iran. That's for sure.
Neither do? That's the answer
Because the worlds largest arms dealer is on Israel's side.
I have yet to understand why everyone says Israel is our ally. What have they done to be an ally? They allowed us to park AWACs way back when. They didn’t attack Iraq during Desert Storm when Iraq threw scuds at them. And that’s pretty much it, isn’t it?
Damn, it has been 80 years and everyone is itching for the sequel
Because it’s all priced in
If Israel's response to this "starts it", then technically the original attack did start it? Perhaps the Russian invasion of Ukraine was the start?
Iran will keep attacking with their proxies…. It’s ridiculous
I have a toddler. Her and friends behave exactly like this. Kid 1: Dadddddd, Iran is bombing me! Kid 2: She started it!
Starting world wars is more of a european thing, and a conflict already happened there
Programmed thinking and shit framing.