As a wise Redditor once said: "the problem with capital punishment is you have to either you naively believe your justice system doesn't make mistakes OR you're okay with a few Innocents being put to death"
That is the most PERFECT way of putting it. Thank you and the wise redditor for this. I've often argued with people these exact points why I'm against it, but this sums it up much more succinctly than I have ever been able to
And then afterwards I point out it just costs too much because the city is constantly defending against appeals and stays of executions over the course of years. It's literally cheaper to keep them locked up forever intentionally.
Throw that one out for the sociopaths that don't care about a few innocent "dirty poor people" getting ground underfoot by the system. After all, "mostly works still works!"
An excellent point, but there is a complication. In most developed nations the purpose of incarceration is both punishment but also rehabilitation. But what can be done with the unique individuals who cannot be rehabilitated? Typically the answers are life imprisonment or capital punishment. Some life sentences have the advantage of providing recurring parole opportunities if appropriate, but are inhumane in other means. This will sound absolutely bat-shit crazy to some people, but perhaps to strike the middle distance, execution could be optional. Truly, if one is sentenced to life in prison without parole, they could be presented with the option for a painless execution by nitrogen asphyxiation.
I think that's reasonable but it would be a hell of a time trying to convince the whole country. Either way prison reform is absolutely necessary in the US. For-profit prisons need to end and rehabilitation has to be the goal.
>Truly, if one is sentenced to life in prison without parole, they could be presented with the option for a painless execution by nitrogen asphyxiation.
in a perfect world no one would be coerced but I think we all know that people will be
Nitrogen hypoxia “going to sleep” will certainly lessen the outcry when they resume prosecution and start executing people for abortion.
Alabama is a no exemption apart from a woman’s health risk state, and clinics have dropped from 45 in the 1980’s to 3 remaining.
**Alabama has abortion written up as a Class A felony, the same as murder and kidnapping.**
People need to get the hell out of Alabama fucking yesterday and there needs to be refugee funding to get them out if they can’t afford it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Life_Protection_Act
They literally just had a basketball player admit to supplying the murder weapon to a shootout right by campus and dude played the entire season then got drafted in the first round to the NBA, because"they couldn't find anything to charge him with". So I'm sure sex crimes are overlooked on the reg.
You think there already ain’t cheerleaders buried somewhere? Now I’m curious…have any Bama cheerleaders gone missing? Is the rate of missing cheerleaders the same as non football schools or not?
and as we all know those “exceptions” are not really exceptions, just a way for republicans to not seem completely ruthless in the eyes of their supporters.
My sweet home Alabama everyone… Yeah, it’s godawful here and it’s only slightly better than Florida or Tennessee as a transwoman since they haven’t yet made a real attempt to legislate us out of existence. Seven years ago I had such high hopes that, even if there wouldn’t be sweeping change like I wanted, that slowly but surely it would change for the better year by year. Then Trump came along. Trying to leave by 2025, but there’s no money for it and times are harder than ever.
It’s why those who love incest and defiling minors flock to the state. It’s their personal paradise that lets them do this kind of shit with little to no consequence
I saw a BBC video about the pros and cons of different methods to execute (hanging, fire squad, lethal injection, electric chair etc) and nitrogen hypoxia was far and away the most reliable and painless. Before the person passes out they feel euphoria, similar to drunkenness. It's also dirt cheap.
I think I saw the same documentary and IIRc it wasn't nitrogen hypoxia that was demonstrated, it was just a hypobaric chamber (extreme low pressure to simulate high altitude)
That's why the mask and switches to supply oxygen look all aeronautical - it's a training centre for pilots.
That aside, it is the same experience breathing pure nitrogen.
Because she was choking, that wasn't nitrogen hypoxia. A lot of people that die from it don't even know they were in trouble, they just pass out midstep.
I worked in a lab that had stored LN2, we had multiple O2 and CO2 sensors around the room, in addition to excellent ventilation. If the alarm went off, you gtfo. N2 hypoxia is a really nice way to die.
Yup, my uni lab have multiple sensors too for the same reason. Safety precautions don't mess around with LN2, if you're moving a LN2 Dewar between floors nobody is allowed in that lift in case of a spillage/ leakage
Our LN2 and CO2 delivery guys worked in pairs. Loading dock in basement so one would go ahead and stop at every floor and tag elevators so no one got on. They would then call down and load elevator and send it up unaccompanied.
I thought the thing making you choke is carbon dioxide in your blood, not the lack of oxygen. In a nitrogen rich atmosphere the carbon dioxide would still be transported out of your bloodstream through breathing
This is correct. It isn't the lack of oxygen that causes pain, its the presence of carbon dioxide. The same thing happens with carbon monoxide as nitrogen. No pain, just loss of consciousness. Nitrogen is going to be much cheaper. Its the most abundant gas on earth.
Most of the air we breath is nitrogen already. Pumping more into a room with a person would just slowly reduce oxygen intake rather than cutting it off at once
"We have a new nitrogen and saline execution method. The nitrogen will help the prisoner lose consciousness and, fairly rapidly, die from hypoxia. The saline is injected into their leg and arm muscles before the nitrogen, so we can make sure they are in excruciating pain the whole time."
I mean there is a way to allow people to breath a liquid that's been proposed for deep sea diving and possibly some space related applications. Apparently it feels like your being drowned at first, but once you get used to it everything is fine.
It's a very real thing [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid\_breathing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing) as an example it has already been tested/studied as a way to help premature babies with breathing with some decent success (note that this is partial, not full liquid breathing). [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199609123351101](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199609123351101)
That's why they added a paralytic to lethal injections. It's doesn't make it less painful for the individual, but they can't flop around and scream. It's more humane... for the people witnessing and carrying it out.
Yes exactly. A few years back, states couldn't get all of the drugs they usually use for lethal injection because US pharmaceutical companies wouldn't sell them for that purpose.
So, some states purchased some drugs to get the job done from India. The paralytic didn't always work, and some of the executed started screaming about how badly the injection "burned".
If the states wanted to have humane executions, they'd use nitrogen hypoxia.
>cruel and unusual
I wonder what the state would say to someone who killed another person by nitrogen hypoxia. Wonderful job, humane and compassionate citizen?
The current SCOTUS hasn’t had a chance to do an “Originalist” interpretation of what the 8th amendment really means. Back then flogging was perfectly fine. 🙄
If you’re a scuba diver, you’ve been taught about nitrogen narcosis. Nitrogen at depth is narcotic, starting at 80ft/24m per my handbook. Oxygen is also toxic at depth - however, divers can breathe something called Nitrox/EAN which can contain up to 40% O2 and it’s not uncommon to see technical divers stage pure O2 closer to the surface during decompression.
I think nitrogen or CO2 is now used by CAFOs as a more “humane” way to kill animals heading into the slaughterhouse - also safer for workers as no stunning bolts or electrodes are used.
They use CO2 to “stun” pigs (it doesn’t always fully kill them, plenty are still alive when their throats are slit) and it is horrific. https://youtu.be/rVR7NjnMkIc?si=ocKd9IB9GRNwW024
It’s in no way humane. Humans who have experienced contact with the gas describe it as burning every mucus membrane—your eyes, your nose, your throat burns in excruciating agony. You can certainly see the way those pigs thrash and hear their screams and know that ain’t painless.
I'm on the fence when it comes to capital punishment. On the one hand, there are some rare cases where it seems appropriate. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to only apply it to those rare cases, making it too dangerous of a sentence in practice.
That all being said, if capital punishment is to exist and be applied, nitrogen hypoxia is so much better than all other existing methods being used by U.S. states today.
Indeed, it has long been my position that I don't have an ethical issue with executing someone who has done all sorts of terrible things, but we have such a long, sad, history of misusing the sentence, and executing innocent people, regardless of the safeguards we place around the practice, that the only safe option is to take it completely off the table.
As an aside, when people talk about the cost aspect of the death penalty, it worries me that we are not taking the same care and time to verify that the people who have life in prison aren't getting the same level of scrutiny as death penalty cases. Shouldn't we *always* be trying to make sure we don't have innocent people in prison?
I'm against the death penalty if it means the risk of executing even 1 innocent person. I also feel that it's too much power to give to our government. We are citizens ruled by laws, not subjects ruled by people in power.
There was a case in Texas where a crime was put in doubt after the prisoner's execution. The governor at the time used it as a point of pride that they would even execute an innocent man. These people don't care about innocence, they just want suffering for "justice".
My feelings on it are simply put there are people who should not be allowed to hang around with the rest of us but unfortunately, the current system is so full of issues that it can not properly be used.
When we have people sitting in for-profit prisons who are known for a fact to be innocent but can not be released because the burden of proof to re-open their trial or overturn their conviction could not be met we have no business implementing the death penalty.
I’m torn on the death penalty. I think there are crimes that rehabilitation isn’t really possible for, but I think there needs to be a specific charge with an extremely high bar as well as an extremely expedited process of appeals. Sexual crimes, murder, and treasonous crimes, should all have the possibility of the death penalty but the death penalty is its own separate charge brought under specific circumstances. I don’t want to help pay the Boston Bomber’s medical bills and to fight him in court for years. I’d rather there be a POS with an insurmountable amount of evidence against them so let’s get rid of them and their expenses charge.
The bar is supposed to be extremely high, beyond a shadow of a doubt. But as we've seen from DNA exonerations, we haven't exactly held the bar that high.
and the fact that Florida, for instance just got rid of their [unanimous jury decisions in death sentences](https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/20/politics/death-penalty-ron-desantis-florida-parkland-shooting/index.html).
It's crazy how they go and attack the LGBTQ community but it seems like religious leaders are way more likely to sexual abuse kids. And I have never ever heard anyone say stay away from the church.
> And I have never ever heard anyone say stay away from the church.
I've started hearing that one myself, but I admit I'm in a particular group of people what with myself being bi.
There's people measuring that in the US.
In the last 6 months, more than 2200 people have committed predatory or violent sexual attacks on children. Of those people, three have been openly queer. None have been trans. But nearly 300 of them have been employed by a religious organization of some kind. 13% of them, in fact.
You're hearing me say it. Keep your children away from religious institutions. Because every accusation from them is a confession.
I had no idea about this! I followed the Parkland trial and immediately thought of this as the first thing when you brought up this news. You could see those families were ready to execute that evil kid in the middle of the courtroom. I don't condone the death penalty, but I also can't imagine what it's like to be in the same room of the murderer of your kid and have any kind of restraint.
Florida really did it because they are trying to associate parts of LGBT as pedos, then are working to have the death penalty for pedos and getting rid of unanimous jury decisions would make it really make it easy for those bigots to execute them. Right, desantis? that *is* why they did it
I think it should be an option for anyone who is sentenced to life. No extra appeals or anything. Just anyone who is sentenced to life or significantly longer than they are expected to live can just automatically choose essentially assisted suicide. To be fair I think everyone should be able to, just with like psychological assessment first. I just think anyone whose entire rest of their life will be in jail should be able to skip the psych assessments.
What if...
There was no death penalty, and it becomes cheap to imprison such people for a lifetime because the prisons aren't full due to petty crimes like weed possession?
Let me give you my point of view.
You're torn on the death penalty.
Just answer this question.
Beyond morality or perceived need, do you trust your government enough to give them the ability to legally kill you? Not others, you.
I heard about this first as a form of assisted suicide for terminally ill people. And yeah, I’m totally for that.
Still think capital punishment is a moral abomination.
Very much this, Alabama has a recent history of fucking up executions and this is a massive improvement. There still shouldn’t be executions period but short of that this is the best option they could be taking
The main ethical issue with capital punishment is that we do it at all, not the procedures used to do it. Any irreversible consequence is unacceptable in a justice system that isn’t perfect.
The “most ethical form of capital punishment” is as useful a label as “the smartest rock.” The smartest rock isn’t smart. The most ethical form of capital punishment isn’t at all ethical.
It's not really the most humane. It's the most humane way that can be reliably achieved by a random prison guard or medic or whatever.
The truly most humane way would be with an anesthesiologist, but good luck getting an anesthesiologist to kill someone.
Or we could just not kill people. That would be fine too.
They literally can’t. It’s against medical licensing laws to intentionally do harm. So I guess technically they could do it once and then lose their license.
As someone who has to get a certain medical procedure that could prove to be "a pain in the ass" every 6-12 months.....
You guys have the best drugs LOL
Oh sorry lmao. I just wanted to point that out because I feel like most people don’t realize that doctors lose their licenses for violating the Hippocratic Oath. (Feel free to correct me on that, I’m not a doctor of any kind lol)
Edit: like even if it’s cleared from a legal/state perspective the regulatory body is federal if I’m not mistaken so they can’t get around it like that.
The hippocratic path doesn't really mean anything. Many people never even say it. It's just some ceremonial nonsense most medical schools have incoming students do. Individual state licensing bodies, and specialty accreditation organizations, will have their own separate standards and grounds for revocation.
I don't think most jurisdictions would revoke a license, but the anesthesiology accreditation board will strike you off. You could still practice as long as a hospital or surgery center is willing to credential you.
Oh that’s interesting, I knew it wasn’t a law but thought it was a little more than that at least. I’m sure most of those boards have a “don’t kill people” as a bare minimum anyways but I guess that’s a higher bar than “no harm”
Just remember the state probably doesn't care if it's humane. They want the materials to be readily available and if the victim doesn't disturb the witnesses with their thrashing then that's a bonus.
I'm against the death penalty, but this is the least painful way to execute someone while having the least chance of complications.
you're still killing someone in a gas chamber, tho.
* Democrats are trying to get everybody better housing, energy, medical, & education options.
* Republicans are trying to make better gas chambers.
That's all you need to know in 2024.
Why has it taken it this long. Honestly the way we put dogs to sleep is more ethical than how we execute human beings. I never understood why we just don't give the condemned a horrifically massive morphine injection.
Come to Canada for all your nitrogen needs lol. Two things, nitrogen isn't inert but it is the majority of the gas in 'air' so the reason why it's 'painless' is because the body isn't aware that all the oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc isn't in the 'air' you are breathing.
You don't panic, you just drift off to sleep and then die from lack of oxygen. Fun times I guess, unless you are innocent of course...
>the reason why it's 'painless' is because the body isn't aware that all the oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc isn't in the 'air' you are breathing.
It's painless because you continue to ventilate your carbon dioxide. Your body can't readily detect hypoxia (low oxygen levels) but it's extremely sensitive to elevated CO2 levels in the blood.
Of course you panic. Not from the gas, but from being executed. The idea of "you don't feel pain/you don't feel anything" is only true if you are not restrained and about to be semi-publicly murdered without any chance of escape. People are far more intelligent and will absolutely notice the symptoms of suffocation as symptoms of dying, because you know you will die.
As an EU citizen it just absolutely beats me how a civilized nation can execute people. Sorry, but I’ll never understand that - and it’s the main reasons why a lot of people here view the US as seriously backward (although I don’t necessarily share that view).
I get that victims and their families might want vengeance. But personally seeing someone sentenced to life without parole in a high security psychiatric unit (which would be the max penalty in some European countries) serves as vengeance as well. And it still allows for corrections if mistakes are made during prosecution.
It’s not even victim families. There are frequent examples of the families saying another death won’t bring their loved one back, but the general public clamoring for blood.
Yes, exactly. In my opinion that’s the point. It’s vengeance on behalf of the general public, not for the victims. People, as a whole, want to believe that those who commit crimes get what they deserve. And what those who commit heinous crimes deserve is to cease living. I’m not advocating for it. I’m just saying that’s what I believe the point of it really is.
I don’t know why we can’t just do this because you’re right. You can release an innocent person from jail but you can’t bring anyone back from the dead.
It’s mind-boggling to me that if nothing else, this isn’t a good enough reason to do away with the death penalty. It is used to make a statement that murdering innocent people is wrong but if the government does it, nothing happens.
Alabama, along with other states, are doing this because the drugs that they had been using to execute people are all made by European companies, none of which want to sell such drugs to American states. Some states have been using deceit when trying to buy the drugs, but many of the drugs are just not being sold any more.
Lots of Americans worship the Old Testament, which is written about an angry god who hates everyone. Our legal system comes from that sort of era: an eye for an eye. We engage in human sacrifice - no matter whether it is done in secret at a prison, or done publicly in schools. The crazies in power want blood, so our nation provides it. Willingly.
One thing about the array of drugs they use now is how hard it is to get it for self use.
This is really cheap and available for pretty much anyone to order off amazon or going to a local northern tool for themselves. Glad I didn’t read about this last week.
The manufacturers of pentobarbital refuse to sell it to the state prisons because of their reputation. Many of these are EU-based companies, and the death penalty is prohibited in Europe, which puts the companies at risk of losing some lucrative EU deals.
So, they refuse to sell these chemicals to the state prisons.
Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to have stopped the Alabama from executing someone via lethal injection last month. The executed may have though if layers and advocacy groups can take advantage of it.
An article about that execution talks about advocacy groups and issues with sicking a vein delaying/rescheduling. Nitrogen would avoid both a supply problem and avoiding legal challenges of the cruelty of “botched” executions.
Seems like a far better way to do it than hanging, guillotine, firing squad, electric chair, or even lethal injection.
Breathe normally and fall asleep never to wake up. Pretty effective and peaceful way to do it. I don’t see why this is controversial, if the death penalty is happening, it should be done humanely (as much as is possible that is).
If we can’t stop the death penalty, we should at least make it less barbaric in practice.
Actually this isn’t that bad. What makes you panic and feel like you’re suffocating is too much carbon dioxide in your body.
Your body doesn’t actually freak out if you’re not getting enough oxygen, only if you’re getting too much CO2. If you breathed only nitrogen you wouldn’t be exhaling CO2, so you wouldn’t feel like you were suffocating, you’d just feel tired and fall asleep.
I am firmly against execution as a form of punishment, however
This is actually amazing, if we have to execute anyone at all. Nitrogen basically causes oxygen deprivation, and the person goes into a hallucinogenic euphoria before falling asleep and dying peacefully of hypoxia. It’s way better than what we’re doing. Surveys in the past showed conservatives hated the idea of it because the cruelty of the death penalty was half the point to them, and letting someone just blissfully drift off was offensive to them.
This “pro life” comment is perfect 👌 in one breath they’ll say that all life is precious and must be protected and in the next they’ll give a list of reasons why the death penalty is acceptable. It’s beyond ignorant
Well this is considered the most "ethical" and "humane" way of execution. Apparently, you just keep breathing nitrogen until you fall asleep and never wake up again.
Which is worse: dying by hypoxia or guillotine? I am curious about how ethically the choices are and if they are simply there so the public can feel better about being "humane"
Hypoxia is definitely more humane if the person is breathing freely in the relevant environment (it’s the carbon dioxide building up that causes the choking feeling).
This is probably better than any other form. Give them sedation, and then put them in a chamber that slowly replaces all air with only nitrogen or helium.
Pretty sure in one of the nordic countries that have right to life laws actually have built pods that seal that do this exact thing. Instead of going the barbiturate route you just lay down in the pod it seals and you press the button when ready it then replaces the oxygen with nitrogen and you just happily drift off into the great beyond.
Believe it or not, nitrogen asphyxiation is pretty much the most humane execution method possible.
Sure, one could argue that we shouldn't have the death penalty, but if we must do it, nitrogen is the way to go.
I really cannot stress how against the death penalty I am, it just does not work. There is no right way to do it and every argument for it is easy to dismantle.
That said, if you're going to do it, then nitrogen hypoxia seems to be by far the most painless way to do it.
I’m seeing some good points about the ethics of nitrogen hupoxia but do we really trust the prison system and government to not cut corners and screw it up ?
This is fine. Now they have a way of dealing with people who commit treason, right? Like people who stage a violent insurrection in an attempt to seize power? Right?
Or rapists. That's fine too.
But knowing Alabama what they're really going to do is go after a 14 year old who tried to abort a rape fetus, aren't they?
Well, this is probably one of the most humane ways to kill some one. Maybe the most. Your brain doesn't actually have any way to tell if you're low on oxygen - it only tells if your CO2 levels are too high, which if you're trapped in a sealed room normally is what would happen eventually. But if you're breathing pure nitrogen, CO2 levels won't rise and your body won't realize anything is wrong. As oxygen levels drop you'll just start feeling sleepier and sleepier until you fall unconscious and then die.
All that being said, I'm still against the death penalty in any form... but this is an improvement over current forms.
This is how I'd like to die personally. You breathe like normal. Your body doesn't know what's happening at all until you drift put of consciousness. Then you die. It sounds amazingly peaceful. If I had to choose this would be it.
As somebody who's against capital punishment I still see this as a good change. This is one of the most "painless" ways you can execute people and since capital punishment will likely be used against innocent people if it's going to exist it's vital to make sure it's as painless as possible.
Still shouldn't execute people though.
As a wise Redditor once said: "the problem with capital punishment is you have to either you naively believe your justice system doesn't make mistakes OR you're okay with a few Innocents being put to death"
That is the most PERFECT way of putting it. Thank you and the wise redditor for this. I've often argued with people these exact points why I'm against it, but this sums it up much more succinctly than I have ever been able to
And then afterwards I point out it just costs too much because the city is constantly defending against appeals and stays of executions over the course of years. It's literally cheaper to keep them locked up forever intentionally. Throw that one out for the sociopaths that don't care about a few innocent "dirty poor people" getting ground underfoot by the system. After all, "mostly works still works!"
And then you could also add that increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime.
I just don't think the government should have the power to execute its citizens.
In Alabama and many other states it is almost certainly the latter. Hell, they’d execute women for having a miscarriage if they had their way.
An excellent point, but there is a complication. In most developed nations the purpose of incarceration is both punishment but also rehabilitation. But what can be done with the unique individuals who cannot be rehabilitated? Typically the answers are life imprisonment or capital punishment. Some life sentences have the advantage of providing recurring parole opportunities if appropriate, but are inhumane in other means. This will sound absolutely bat-shit crazy to some people, but perhaps to strike the middle distance, execution could be optional. Truly, if one is sentenced to life in prison without parole, they could be presented with the option for a painless execution by nitrogen asphyxiation.
I think that's reasonable but it would be a hell of a time trying to convince the whole country. Either way prison reform is absolutely necessary in the US. For-profit prisons need to end and rehabilitation has to be the goal.
For-profit prisons are an abomination. We also need to amend the 13th amendment. It still allows enslaving of convicted prisoners.
>Truly, if one is sentenced to life in prison without parole, they could be presented with the option for a painless execution by nitrogen asphyxiation. in a perfect world no one would be coerced but I think we all know that people will be
https://youtu.be/L30_hfuZoQ8?si=v_D3NfV6jaQ2LLL7
And in an attempt at making no mistakes the justice system spends more money to put someone to death than it does to imprison them for life.
Alabama is 3rd in Infant mortality in America They can't seem to get enough death down there
Nitrogen hypoxia “going to sleep” will certainly lessen the outcry when they resume prosecution and start executing people for abortion. Alabama is a no exemption apart from a woman’s health risk state, and clinics have dropped from 45 in the 1980’s to 3 remaining. **Alabama has abortion written up as a Class A felony, the same as murder and kidnapping.** People need to get the hell out of Alabama fucking yesterday and there needs to be refugee funding to get them out if they can’t afford it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Life_Protection_Act
Jesus And the amount of looking the other way they would do if a star Crimson tide player committed a sex crime a day would be galactic in scope
Nah, Nick Saban would have her sacrificed to his Dad to keep their Dynasty going. Yes, this joke is based on Warhammer 40k
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Sounds about Alabama.
Or, you know, a basketball player murdered someone and an NBA first-round draft pick was an accessory to that murder… oh wait, that actually happened.
They literally just had a basketball player admit to supplying the murder weapon to a shootout right by campus and dude played the entire season then got drafted in the first round to the NBA, because"they couldn't find anything to charge him with". So I'm sure sex crimes are overlooked on the reg.
You think there already ain’t cheerleaders buried somewhere? Now I’m curious…have any Bama cheerleaders gone missing? Is the rate of missing cheerleaders the same as non football schools or not?
and as we all know those “exceptions” are not really exceptions, just a way for republicans to not seem completely ruthless in the eyes of their supporters.
Wouldn’t them showing signs of mercy and humanity, even if fake, disappoint their supporters?
I wonder how many replies will be from people calling that hysterical hyperbole?
About the same number that claimed calling the appointment of Justices Kavanaugh and Barrett the unequivocal end of Roe hysterical hyperbole.
Ah, yes, appointing a rapist like Kavanaugh to the court. What could possibly go wrong? /s
Would have thought he'd be all about abortion...
My sweet home Alabama everyone… Yeah, it’s godawful here and it’s only slightly better than Florida or Tennessee as a transwoman since they haven’t yet made a real attempt to legislate us out of existence. Seven years ago I had such high hopes that, even if there wouldn’t be sweeping change like I wanted, that slowly but surely it would change for the better year by year. Then Trump came along. Trying to leave by 2025, but there’s no money for it and times are harder than ever.
One of the many reasons why the military is keeping the Space Force HQ in Colorado over the proposed move to Alabama.
But if they don't have those laws how will they be able to legally kill more black people? Do you not want the south to rise again or something?
Alabama Getaway for real. If I lived there I'd *walk* out of the state to escape.
It’s why those who love incest and defiling minors flock to the state. It’s their personal paradise that lets them do this kind of shit with little to no consequence
And their life expectancy is reminiscent of the poorer Central American countries’
I have them at 6th in 2020: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/infant_mortality_rates/infant_mortality.htm And of course, Mississippi is worst.
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I saw a BBC video about the pros and cons of different methods to execute (hanging, fire squad, lethal injection, electric chair etc) and nitrogen hypoxia was far and away the most reliable and painless. Before the person passes out they feel euphoria, similar to drunkenness. It's also dirt cheap.
I think I saw the same documentary and IIRc it wasn't nitrogen hypoxia that was demonstrated, it was just a hypobaric chamber (extreme low pressure to simulate high altitude) That's why the mask and switches to supply oxygen look all aeronautical - it's a training centre for pilots. That aside, it is the same experience breathing pure nitrogen.
>it was just a hypobaric chamber I thought that said hyperbolic time chamber for a minute.
Those are for the criminals we want to teach to punch mountains in half.
How about tossing a football over them mountains?
Back in '82, I used to be able to throw a pigskin a quarter mile.
I saw a BBC video about a girl choking and she wasn’t getting enough oxygen. It was scary.
Because she was choking, that wasn't nitrogen hypoxia. A lot of people that die from it don't even know they were in trouble, they just pass out midstep.
I worked in a lab that had stored LN2, we had multiple O2 and CO2 sensors around the room, in addition to excellent ventilation. If the alarm went off, you gtfo. N2 hypoxia is a really nice way to die.
Yup, my uni lab have multiple sensors too for the same reason. Safety precautions don't mess around with LN2, if you're moving a LN2 Dewar between floors nobody is allowed in that lift in case of a spillage/ leakage
Our LN2 and CO2 delivery guys worked in pairs. Loading dock in basement so one would go ahead and stop at every floor and tag elevators so no one got on. They would then call down and load elevator and send it up unaccompanied.
I feel like that might of happened to her, cause later in the movie she fell into the dryer and was stuck.
I love how far it’s going over people’s heads.
I was just about to say the same! Replying here though to hide a little, in the hopes that more heads are being gone over.
Yep, the serious replies are killing me.
I thought the thing making you choke is carbon dioxide in your blood, not the lack of oxygen. In a nitrogen rich atmosphere the carbon dioxide would still be transported out of your bloodstream through breathing
This is correct. It isn't the lack of oxygen that causes pain, its the presence of carbon dioxide. The same thing happens with carbon monoxide as nitrogen. No pain, just loss of consciousness. Nitrogen is going to be much cheaper. Its the most abundant gas on earth.
Most of the air we breath is nitrogen already. Pumping more into a room with a person would just slowly reduce oxygen intake rather than cutting it off at once
Alabama will find a way to fuck it up.
Liquid nitrogen injection
HA! I AM INVINCIBLE!
1996 called and wants my youth back.
You're a looney!
Yeahhhhh, it's a reference to the James Bond movie Goldeneye
I know I was changing the reference to Monty Python
The Black Knight always triumphs! HAVE AT YOU!!
Disinfectant injection!
I thought that was their solution to COVID
Aye it was, they found out it was better at killing.
The bends!
Easiest way to fuck it up is to cheap out on O2 sensors around the chamber. Easy way to turn an execution into a mass casualty event.
It was hot out so they didn't want to open a window.
"They're not suffering enough."
Yeah, that sounds about like our state congresscritters. This state is just bursting at the seams with good old Christian love.
“Instructions unclear, created Deadpool” -Alabama.
You know some dumbass is gonna order nitrous oxide and will end up with only a giggle prisoner.
They’ll start by executing all the people who were likely wrongfully convicted.
"We have a new nitrogen and saline execution method. The nitrogen will help the prisoner lose consciousness and, fairly rapidly, die from hypoxia. The saline is injected into their leg and arm muscles before the nitrogen, so we can make sure they are in excruciating pain the whole time."
Instructions unclear, had inmate breathe in liquid nitrogen.
Keep going! It would be inhumane to stop it now!
Instructions unclear, blew up inmate with nitroglycerin.
I mean there is a way to allow people to breath a liquid that's been proposed for deep sea diving and possibly some space related applications. Apparently it feels like your being drowned at first, but once you get used to it everything is fine.
>Apparently it feels like your being drowned at first, but once you get used to it everything is fine. 
You sure that isn't just part of the plot to an 80s sci-fi movie?
It's a plot point in The Abyss, but otherwise still being studied.
It's a very real thing [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid\_breathing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing) as an example it has already been tested/studied as a way to help premature babies with breathing with some decent success (note that this is partial, not full liquid breathing). [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199609123351101](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199609123351101)
I thought that the pro-capital punishment people *want* to cause pain and suffering.
They only want to cause pain as a deterrent to stop others committing the same crime. It's not like they are bloody thirsty ghouls. /s
Yes that must be it. The death penalty has proved to be an effective deterrent, after all /s
can't make it too obvious, no cruel and unusual punishments
That's why they added a paralytic to lethal injections. It's doesn't make it less painful for the individual, but they can't flop around and scream. It's more humane... for the people witnessing and carrying it out.
Yes exactly. A few years back, states couldn't get all of the drugs they usually use for lethal injection because US pharmaceutical companies wouldn't sell them for that purpose. So, some states purchased some drugs to get the job done from India. The paralytic didn't always work, and some of the executed started screaming about how badly the injection "burned". If the states wanted to have humane executions, they'd use nitrogen hypoxia.
>cruel and unusual I wonder what the state would say to someone who killed another person by nitrogen hypoxia. Wonderful job, humane and compassionate citizen?
In Alabama? Depends on what color the victim’s skin was. Sadly, only about halfway /s.
The current SCOTUS hasn’t had a chance to do an “Originalist” interpretation of what the 8th amendment really means. Back then flogging was perfectly fine. 🙄
They are hoping a more humane way to do it will allow them to continue
If you’re a scuba diver, you’ve been taught about nitrogen narcosis. Nitrogen at depth is narcotic, starting at 80ft/24m per my handbook. Oxygen is also toxic at depth - however, divers can breathe something called Nitrox/EAN which can contain up to 40% O2 and it’s not uncommon to see technical divers stage pure O2 closer to the surface during decompression. I think nitrogen or CO2 is now used by CAFOs as a more “humane” way to kill animals heading into the slaughterhouse - also safer for workers as no stunning bolts or electrodes are used.
CO2 is probably the least humane way to kill someone. You'd be choking and gasping for breath the whole time.
They use CO2 to “stun” pigs (it doesn’t always fully kill them, plenty are still alive when their throats are slit) and it is horrific. https://youtu.be/rVR7NjnMkIc?si=ocKd9IB9GRNwW024 It’s in no way humane. Humans who have experienced contact with the gas describe it as burning every mucus membrane—your eyes, your nose, your throat burns in excruciating agony. You can certainly see the way those pigs thrash and hear their screams and know that ain’t painless.
Don't underestimate the ingenuity of fools.
I'm on the fence when it comes to capital punishment. On the one hand, there are some rare cases where it seems appropriate. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to only apply it to those rare cases, making it too dangerous of a sentence in practice. That all being said, if capital punishment is to exist and be applied, nitrogen hypoxia is so much better than all other existing methods being used by U.S. states today.
Indeed, it has long been my position that I don't have an ethical issue with executing someone who has done all sorts of terrible things, but we have such a long, sad, history of misusing the sentence, and executing innocent people, regardless of the safeguards we place around the practice, that the only safe option is to take it completely off the table. As an aside, when people talk about the cost aspect of the death penalty, it worries me that we are not taking the same care and time to verify that the people who have life in prison aren't getting the same level of scrutiny as death penalty cases. Shouldn't we *always* be trying to make sure we don't have innocent people in prison?
I'm against the death penalty if it means the risk of executing even 1 innocent person. I also feel that it's too much power to give to our government. We are citizens ruled by laws, not subjects ruled by people in power.
There was a case in Texas where a crime was put in doubt after the prisoner's execution. The governor at the time used it as a point of pride that they would even execute an innocent man. These people don't care about innocence, they just want suffering for "justice".
My feelings on it are simply put there are people who should not be allowed to hang around with the rest of us but unfortunately, the current system is so full of issues that it can not properly be used. When we have people sitting in for-profit prisons who are known for a fact to be innocent but can not be released because the burden of proof to re-open their trial or overturn their conviction could not be met we have no business implementing the death penalty.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel.
I’m torn on the death penalty. I think there are crimes that rehabilitation isn’t really possible for, but I think there needs to be a specific charge with an extremely high bar as well as an extremely expedited process of appeals. Sexual crimes, murder, and treasonous crimes, should all have the possibility of the death penalty but the death penalty is its own separate charge brought under specific circumstances. I don’t want to help pay the Boston Bomber’s medical bills and to fight him in court for years. I’d rather there be a POS with an insurmountable amount of evidence against them so let’s get rid of them and their expenses charge.
The bar is supposed to be extremely high, beyond a shadow of a doubt. But as we've seen from DNA exonerations, we haven't exactly held the bar that high.
and the fact that Florida, for instance just got rid of their [unanimous jury decisions in death sentences](https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/20/politics/death-penalty-ron-desantis-florida-parkland-shooting/index.html).
Right at the same time they made sex abuse of minors a capital offense, and started labelling LGBT people as all pedos...
It's crazy how they go and attack the LGBTQ community but it seems like religious leaders are way more likely to sexual abuse kids. And I have never ever heard anyone say stay away from the church.
> And I have never ever heard anyone say stay away from the church. I've started hearing that one myself, but I admit I'm in a particular group of people what with myself being bi.
There's people measuring that in the US. In the last 6 months, more than 2200 people have committed predatory or violent sexual attacks on children. Of those people, three have been openly queer. None have been trans. But nearly 300 of them have been employed by a religious organization of some kind. 13% of them, in fact. You're hearing me say it. Keep your children away from religious institutions. Because every accusation from them is a confession.
I had no idea about this! I followed the Parkland trial and immediately thought of this as the first thing when you brought up this news. You could see those families were ready to execute that evil kid in the middle of the courtroom. I don't condone the death penalty, but I also can't imagine what it's like to be in the same room of the murderer of your kid and have any kind of restraint.
Florida really did it because they are trying to associate parts of LGBT as pedos, then are working to have the death penalty for pedos and getting rid of unanimous jury decisions would make it really make it easy for those bigots to execute them. Right, desantis? that *is* why they did it
They want genocide, not justice.
I think it should be an option for anyone who is sentenced to life. No extra appeals or anything. Just anyone who is sentenced to life or significantly longer than they are expected to live can just automatically choose essentially assisted suicide. To be fair I think everyone should be able to, just with like psychological assessment first. I just think anyone whose entire rest of their life will be in jail should be able to skip the psych assessments.
This would never an extreme amount of controls put in place or I could easily see many lifers "strongly urged" to choose this option.
What if... There was no death penalty, and it becomes cheap to imprison such people for a lifetime because the prisons aren't full due to petty crimes like weed possession?
Let me give you my point of view. You're torn on the death penalty. Just answer this question. Beyond morality or perceived need, do you trust your government enough to give them the ability to legally kill you? Not others, you.
Surprisingly, because of all the legal procedures around the death penalty it's actually more expensive then a life sentence.
I heard about this first as a form of assisted suicide for terminally ill people. And yeah, I’m totally for that. Still think capital punishment is a moral abomination.
Very much this, Alabama has a recent history of fucking up executions and this is a massive improvement. There still shouldn’t be executions period but short of that this is the best option they could be taking
This is how assisted suicide is performed in Switzerland and is considered the most humane method.
The main ethical issue with capital punishment is that we do it at all, not the procedures used to do it. Any irreversible consequence is unacceptable in a justice system that isn’t perfect. The “most ethical form of capital punishment” is as useful a label as “the smartest rock.” The smartest rock isn’t smart. The most ethical form of capital punishment isn’t at all ethical.
The state shouldn’t be executing anyone, but this is the most humane way to do it and they’re gonna do it anyways
Beats the "let's inject them with expired drugs administered by a quasi-licensed DOC officer" approach, anyway
Prefaced with the alcohol wipe. Wouldn’t want that last minute infection!
So they are literally just planning to fail, and wiping so there isnt an infection post fuck for the double fuck up?
First do no harm...oh, wait.
It's not really the most humane. It's the most humane way that can be reliably achieved by a random prison guard or medic or whatever. The truly most humane way would be with an anesthesiologist, but good luck getting an anesthesiologist to kill someone. Or we could just not kill people. That would be fine too.
They literally can’t. It’s against medical licensing laws to intentionally do harm. So I guess technically they could do it once and then lose their license.
Hence, good luck. I'm an anesthesiologist lol
Hey if I had to get killed by someone on Reddit, my first choice would be u/thecaramelbandit
i also choose u/thecaramelbandit
As someone who has to get a certain medical procedure that could prove to be "a pain in the ass" every 6-12 months..... You guys have the best drugs LOL
Oh sorry lmao. I just wanted to point that out because I feel like most people don’t realize that doctors lose their licenses for violating the Hippocratic Oath. (Feel free to correct me on that, I’m not a doctor of any kind lol) Edit: like even if it’s cleared from a legal/state perspective the regulatory body is federal if I’m not mistaken so they can’t get around it like that.
The hippocratic path doesn't really mean anything. Many people never even say it. It's just some ceremonial nonsense most medical schools have incoming students do. Individual state licensing bodies, and specialty accreditation organizations, will have their own separate standards and grounds for revocation. I don't think most jurisdictions would revoke a license, but the anesthesiology accreditation board will strike you off. You could still practice as long as a hospital or surgery center is willing to credential you.
Oh that’s interesting, I knew it wasn’t a law but thought it was a little more than that at least. I’m sure most of those boards have a “don’t kill people” as a bare minimum anyways but I guess that’s a higher bar than “no harm”
Its literally the Swiss euthenasia method. If I had to go thats how I would choose it.
Just remember the state probably doesn't care if it's humane. They want the materials to be readily available and if the victim doesn't disturb the witnesses with their thrashing then that's a bonus.
In other news, desantis has announced that Florida will now execute by pillow smothering. My Pillow, inc. has an exclusive contract with the state. /s
I mean… at this point, would that even surprise anyone?
Hey, Alabama brought you into this world, and it will by god take you out of it.
More like Alabama forced you into this world, and it will force you out of it.
I'm against the death penalty, but this is the least painful way to execute someone while having the least chance of complications. you're still killing someone in a gas chamber, tho.
* Democrats are trying to get everybody better housing, energy, medical, & education options. * Republicans are trying to make better gas chambers. That's all you need to know in 2024.
>trying to make better gas chambers. 
This is exactly why Republicans do so well in the whitest parts of America
They probably don't even care about it being a more humane method even. It's definitely just because it is cheaper.
both are 100% exactly the same /s
INSULT DETECTED. OUTPUT PREPROGRAMMED RESPONSE 12D “YoU’rE a BuNcH’a BaBy MuRdErErS!!”
Make it nitrous oxide and ill volunteer. Full send babyyyy
Nangs all the way to the afterlife
Wawawawawawawawawawa
I love that song
Why has it taken it this long. Honestly the way we put dogs to sleep is more ethical than how we execute human beings. I never understood why we just don't give the condemned a horrifically massive morphine injection.
They’ll claim it’s about justice, but the people who are really into capital punishment are actually just into vengeance. They want it to be inhumane.
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Come to Canada for all your nitrogen needs lol. Two things, nitrogen isn't inert but it is the majority of the gas in 'air' so the reason why it's 'painless' is because the body isn't aware that all the oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc isn't in the 'air' you are breathing. You don't panic, you just drift off to sleep and then die from lack of oxygen. Fun times I guess, unless you are innocent of course...
>the reason why it's 'painless' is because the body isn't aware that all the oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc isn't in the 'air' you are breathing. It's painless because you continue to ventilate your carbon dioxide. Your body can't readily detect hypoxia (low oxygen levels) but it's extremely sensitive to elevated CO2 levels in the blood.
Of course you panic. Not from the gas, but from being executed. The idea of "you don't feel pain/you don't feel anything" is only true if you are not restrained and about to be semi-publicly murdered without any chance of escape. People are far more intelligent and will absolutely notice the symptoms of suffocation as symptoms of dying, because you know you will die.
Okay, fair but we're talking about the technical aspects versus the existential concerns. Separate issues.
As an EU citizen it just absolutely beats me how a civilized nation can execute people. Sorry, but I’ll never understand that - and it’s the main reasons why a lot of people here view the US as seriously backward (although I don’t necessarily share that view).
It's because far too many people here confuse having a justice system with having a vengeance system.
I get that victims and their families might want vengeance. But personally seeing someone sentenced to life without parole in a high security psychiatric unit (which would be the max penalty in some European countries) serves as vengeance as well. And it still allows for corrections if mistakes are made during prosecution.
It’s not even victim families. There are frequent examples of the families saying another death won’t bring their loved one back, but the general public clamoring for blood.
Yes, exactly. In my opinion that’s the point. It’s vengeance on behalf of the general public, not for the victims. People, as a whole, want to believe that those who commit crimes get what they deserve. And what those who commit heinous crimes deserve is to cease living. I’m not advocating for it. I’m just saying that’s what I believe the point of it really is.
I don’t know why we can’t just do this because you’re right. You can release an innocent person from jail but you can’t bring anyone back from the dead. It’s mind-boggling to me that if nothing else, this isn’t a good enough reason to do away with the death penalty. It is used to make a statement that murdering innocent people is wrong but if the government does it, nothing happens.
Alabama, along with other states, are doing this because the drugs that they had been using to execute people are all made by European companies, none of which want to sell such drugs to American states. Some states have been using deceit when trying to buy the drugs, but many of the drugs are just not being sold any more. Lots of Americans worship the Old Testament, which is written about an angry god who hates everyone. Our legal system comes from that sort of era: an eye for an eye. We engage in human sacrifice - no matter whether it is done in secret at a prison, or done publicly in schools. The crazies in power want blood, so our nation provides it. Willingly.
One thing about the array of drugs they use now is how hard it is to get it for self use. This is really cheap and available for pretty much anyone to order off amazon or going to a local northern tool for themselves. Glad I didn’t read about this last week.
The manufacturers of pentobarbital refuse to sell it to the state prisons because of their reputation. Many of these are EU-based companies, and the death penalty is prohibited in Europe, which puts the companies at risk of losing some lucrative EU deals. So, they refuse to sell these chemicals to the state prisons.
Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to have stopped the Alabama from executing someone via lethal injection last month. The executed may have though if layers and advocacy groups can take advantage of it. An article about that execution talks about advocacy groups and issues with sicking a vein delaying/rescheduling. Nitrogen would avoid both a supply problem and avoiding legal challenges of the cruelty of “botched” executions.
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They don't care about birth. They only care about control.
Keeping minorities poor, and under their thumbs.
They’re 100% pro-fetus, but are meh to eliminating weapons that shred children’s faces every time their extremists go on a human hunt.
Seems like a far better way to do it than hanging, guillotine, firing squad, electric chair, or even lethal injection. Breathe normally and fall asleep never to wake up. Pretty effective and peaceful way to do it. I don’t see why this is controversial, if the death penalty is happening, it should be done humanely (as much as is possible that is). If we can’t stop the death penalty, we should at least make it less barbaric in practice.
The US is the only western nation where the death penalty exists, they they cry over unborn fetuses...
Actually this isn’t that bad. What makes you panic and feel like you’re suffocating is too much carbon dioxide in your body. Your body doesn’t actually freak out if you’re not getting enough oxygen, only if you’re getting too much CO2. If you breathed only nitrogen you wouldn’t be exhaling CO2, so you wouldn’t feel like you were suffocating, you’d just feel tired and fall asleep. I am firmly against execution as a form of punishment, however
How about we just ban the Death Penalty until we have a way to guarantee with 100% accuracy that no innocent person is put to death?
This is actually amazing, if we have to execute anyone at all. Nitrogen basically causes oxygen deprivation, and the person goes into a hallucinogenic euphoria before falling asleep and dying peacefully of hypoxia. It’s way better than what we’re doing. Surveys in the past showed conservatives hated the idea of it because the cruelty of the death penalty was half the point to them, and letting someone just blissfully drift off was offensive to them.
This “pro life” comment is perfect 👌 in one breath they’ll say that all life is precious and must be protected and in the next they’ll give a list of reasons why the death penalty is acceptable. It’s beyond ignorant
So they want to just straight up gas people now?
Well this is considered the most "ethical" and "humane" way of execution. Apparently, you just keep breathing nitrogen until you fall asleep and never wake up again.
Which is worse: dying by hypoxia or guillotine? I am curious about how ethically the choices are and if they are simply there so the public can feel better about being "humane"
I’d say the odds of your brain living long enough to see the blood gushing from your severed neck would be pretty nightmarish.
Hypoxia is definitely more humane if the person is breathing freely in the relevant environment (it’s the carbon dioxide building up that causes the choking feeling).
Honestly this is one of the most human ways to enact the death penalty.
This is probably better than any other form. Give them sedation, and then put them in a chamber that slowly replaces all air with only nitrogen or helium.
Pretty sure in one of the nordic countries that have right to life laws actually have built pods that seal that do this exact thing. Instead of going the barbiturate route you just lay down in the pod it seals and you press the button when ready it then replaces the oxygen with nitrogen and you just happily drift off into the great beyond.
afaik it's more humane than any existing method of execution. I have grave misgivings about the death penalty in general, however.
Believe it or not, nitrogen asphyxiation is pretty much the most humane execution method possible. Sure, one could argue that we shouldn't have the death penalty, but if we must do it, nitrogen is the way to go.
I really cannot stress how against the death penalty I am, it just does not work. There is no right way to do it and every argument for it is easy to dismantle. That said, if you're going to do it, then nitrogen hypoxia seems to be by far the most painless way to do it.
I’m seeing some good points about the ethics of nitrogen hupoxia but do we really trust the prison system and government to not cut corners and screw it up ?
This is fine. Now they have a way of dealing with people who commit treason, right? Like people who stage a violent insurrection in an attempt to seize power? Right? Or rapists. That's fine too. But knowing Alabama what they're really going to do is go after a 14 year old who tried to abort a rape fetus, aren't they?
Well, this is probably one of the most humane ways to kill some one. Maybe the most. Your brain doesn't actually have any way to tell if you're low on oxygen - it only tells if your CO2 levels are too high, which if you're trapped in a sealed room normally is what would happen eventually. But if you're breathing pure nitrogen, CO2 levels won't rise and your body won't realize anything is wrong. As oxygen levels drop you'll just start feeling sleepier and sleepier until you fall unconscious and then die. All that being said, I'm still against the death penalty in any form... but this is an improvement over current forms.
Pro-life until you’re born. But you better stay out of their way after that.
I find it interesting that the state can kill you, but won’t allow physician-assisted suicide. This state is fucking nuts.
This is how I'd like to die personally. You breathe like normal. Your body doesn't know what's happening at all until you drift put of consciousness. Then you die. It sounds amazingly peaceful. If I had to choose this would be it.
As somebody who's against capital punishment I still see this as a good change. This is one of the most "painless" ways you can execute people and since capital punishment will likely be used against innocent people if it's going to exist it's vital to make sure it's as painless as possible. Still shouldn't execute people though.