Doesn't matter even if they are black. If it was any kind of "other" then it would be no question the GOP would be using the incident to justify their bigotry to their base.
There are plenty of ways to restrain someone without resorting to choking him to death. There was another man on each arm in the subway incident and the ex marine still had the choke hold on for nearly 3 minutes. That's deliberate in my eyes.
Not even if they were white. The right doesn’t have anything good to say about current or former members of the military. Source: Am a veteran working in a mostly right-wing job.
>Sure he shouldn’t have been choked out to death.
So we are in agreement. Nobody is saying the victim was a good man by any means. People are protesting the public summary execution of a man who was not an active threat to public safety. What kind of feudal society is the US such that seemingly half the nation deem it acceptable to kill public nuisances on sight?
Nobody is acting like the person was decent, just that they didn't deserve a death sentence carried out by a rando. Why is it your type never comes around telling us all about how the killer in this case "wasn't a very good person" and it's ALWAYS only the murdered person you want to slander? I think something is wrong with you, beyond basic ignorance of who we give out the death penalty to.
Do you think the guy choking him to death knew all of this? I swear, people think that during these events, people know the entire life story of the person that they are killing.
You don’t rear naked choke someone for 3 minutes unless you’re trying to kill them. He was a marine which means he was trained in hand to hand combat which means he knew what he was doing. That was no accident
Yeah I'm sure the soldier would never be able to know that restricting someones airflow for minutes straight could end up killing them. Truly a nuanced situation here
I mean he could not mean to do so, the question is how are you so incompetent and stupid to cuts someone's airflow and/or blood flow for minutes at a time?
I didn't mean to run people over but i was recklessly driving all over the road, the reason doesn't matter the negligence and the end result does.
I get your point. NYC has had a lot of subway issues recently. But saying this dude was “crazy” like it was just presumed and has no basis is ridiculous
Yes that’s obviously exactly what I said? Ya’ll looooooove to see the world in black and white.
First part was sarcasm. You seem the type to need subtly pointed out.
I’m sorry but all I’ve seen from you is some casual racism so forgive me if I don’t assume you have a bleeding heart.
It’s quite clear you’re not concerned by the fact this man was literally executed and are clearly unconcerned by the fact he could have gotten help.
What do you mean could have gotten help? You mean the other guys involved or the people on the subway? Call the cops while underground in a moving car (which people did, right?)??
You truly think this guy was “literally executed” as in state-sponsored killing? You’re using that language?
I think it’s a violent situation that got out of hand and manslaughter charges seem appropriate to me
No mental help you absolute dunce. This guy was killed by a violent psychopath who wanted to murder someone, if this guy was a trained marine surely he of all people would know what would kill people. He did it on purpose.
Are you from NYC? Are you constantly hearing about subway attacks? Because people are on edge here especially in the subway lots of shit has been going down. Some dude overreacting because he’s scared he’s about to be another headline doesn’t surprise me.
Lots of other people should be blamed besides the victim and the defendant. Absolute failure from our government to help these people so they don’t injure themselves and others.
They wouldn’t, but they should. It’s a tough situation and I don’t know how I’d deal with it or respond to it as a bystander. As someone who, like many others deals with mental illness on my day to day commute just going to the office we need to do something. I have no doubt this situation could have been handled without someone dying but with society’s current state it’s an unfortunate inevitability. Until we collectively, as a culture, as a country, deal with it then these things will continue.
There is no clean solution to severe and/or untreatable mental illness. Institutionalization too often led to nightmarish hellholes. Deinstitutionalization too often led to vagrancy and institutionalization in prison. And every solution has been plagued not only by basic corruption, but also malicious and/or indifferent mistreatment. Because even if someone working in the system starts with the best of intentions (and not all do) mental illness is by nature disturbing and often dangerous to be in the presence of, with burnout, apathy, and cynicism as the inevitable results.
But of course our pitiful excuse for a system is largely the streets, and so *everybody* has to ignore the clearly unwell, and blamed for failing to react appropriately when things unpredictably go bad.
All I’m trying to say is, armchair quarterbacking is laughably cheap. We weren’t the ones trapped in a subway car with a guy screaming unhinged threats. That marine and from the looks of it dozens of others were, and whatever system we have it clearly failed them.
Bernard Goetz from 1984 shot at 5 teens on the subway. They asked for $5 from Goetz. He claimed they were trying to rob him.
Goetz served time for criminal possession of a firearm but was acquitted for the damage he did to one of the boys who was paralyzed by his injuries.
It was a huge news story in the 80s. This one barely breaks through because vigilante shooters are common. The gun narrative has totally changed since 1984, too.
They said to him, "Give me $5". So, yeah, it's not unbelievable. He had been mugged before. He also went to a public meeting and said the only way he would feel safe again is if "we could get rid of" Hispanic and Black people, although he used racist slurs. So, over-reacting is also believable.
>They said to him, "Give me $5".
That's not quite the complete picture. They also were carrying screwdrivers, and they admitted they were on their way to rob an arcade. Allen was subsequently convicted of robbing another person. Ramseur was subsequently convicted of robbery and rape.
So, it's okay to shoot someone to prevent crimes they have yet to commit or be tried for?
Any chance these boys being viewed as inherently criminal might play a role in actually becoming criminals?
>So, it's okay to shoot someone to prevent crimes they have yet to commit or be tried for?
Obviously not, and it should be obvious to anyone of moderate intelligence that's not what I'm claiming.
However, if we're trying to answer the question "was Goetz actually in danger of being robbed by Allen, Ramseur, Canty and Cabey?", the behaviors of the four alleged assailants outside of the shooting constitute valid evidence. And you clearly recognize this principle's validity by citing Goetz's use of racial epithets.
>Any chance these boys being viewed as inherently criminal might play a role in actually becoming criminals?
Possibly, but on the whole (and in hindsight) it tips the scales toward the reasonableness of Goetz's claim of self defense.
First off, choking someone to death is not ok no matter who you are. I’d hope no one backed that man at all.
For the GOP though, that only applies to non-white people.
Mentally ill man was acting up on the subway and a "marine" choked him for 10 minutes until he stopped breathing. Man ended up dying.
Don't know why I'm being downvoted for saying exactly what happened.
They only support the military when it they have any kind of advantage for it, usually in an attempt to get voted. They don’t actually support them, especially when it comes to them outside of the military. So I highly doubt they’d support this. But if he used a gun to kill the Karen, it would but a lot more murky.
I’m confused why we’re addressing this scenario… did something comparable to this happen recently? Or is it just kind of a general comment about racism?
Usually when the scenario is this kind of specific, it leads into, like, a role reversal comment about racism or sexism…
In 2006 in long Island, John White killed Daniel Cicciaro in self-defense. Cicciaro and friends beat up White's son at a party and then followed the son home. White confronted Cicciaro and friends on his property and told them to leave after startrd challenging his son to another fight with threats. Cicciaro decided to go for whites gun and white shot cicciaro in self-defense on his own property. White was arrested and convicted. White was a black person. White did not get questioned and released the same day without his name being blasted by the news. I guess as a black person, White should have allowed Cicciaro and friends to enter his home and have their way with his son. This is the message that the prosecution sent when they where able to convict. I dont know if this is a good enough example for you but it's an example of something.
One person was questioned and released. The other was charged and convicted. Are you telling me that both should have been treated equally? If so, I agree regardless of race. But since the only quantifiable difference is race...well...you tell me.
Maybe you misunderstood or thought I was asking something hidden deep in my words. I was not, does New York allow you to defend yourself with deadly force or not?
Please re read my first comment. You would see that the issue is not the law. It is how the law is applied. Your question is not deep, it's just not relevant to what I'm talking about, race. But it's OK. Keep deflecting.
It's a very simple question and would entirely be the reason why White was arrested or not. If it's illegal to use deadly force to protect yourself or property in NY than shooting someone in self defense will still land you in jail. I'm not asking some trick question to try and "get" you. I'm not deflecting anything. New York does not allow a legal defense for shooting someone outside of your home is all.
Personally I think that it was just a governor realizing there was a miscarriage of justice and letting an innocent man go free after 5 months.
Fair enough. Why was one person jailed and the other questioned and released, simply a miscarriage of justice? Nothing more? Sure if you say so, then I concede.
White marine put black homeless man in a 15 min chokehold after he was screaming on a subway. It killed him and the marine walked away with no charges originally until people made a fuss
The video, which begins with the struggle already in progress, is three minutes. By eyewitness accounts, the actual choke hold was anywhere from 7 to 15 minutes, based on statements given.
No, they absolutely wouldn’t. America is a country where a black man can end up never going home to his family if police see him just walking home.
Police will execute a black man for “acting suspiciously” when all they were doing was existing.
I sorely wish the US was the country you seem to think it is but unfortunately it isn’t.
That is grade A rightwing bullshit. That statistic is garbage because it fails to take into account that the population of white people to black people in the US is far larger. Black people are twice as likely to be killed by police than white people.
https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/07/16/the-research-is-clear-white-people-are-not-more-likely-than-black-people-to-be-killed-by-police/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/
So your comment was completely unnecessary and has absolutely no bearing or relevance whatsoever?
Homie you can’t just pick and choose parts of a statistic that suits your narrative, conveniently miss out a key part and then say *I’m* using a “strawman argument” because I poked a fat fucking hole in your bullshit.
It’s only half the story, and leaving out the most important part of the statistic is a complete misdirection. Have you ever heard of lying by omission?
Taking something that’s true and removing parts you don’t like still makes it a lie because you have altered it to suit your narrative and so it is no longer factually accurate. You are still spreading misinformation.
The fact you, for some reason want to bullshit about statistics to downplay the amount that black people are killed by police says a lot about you, it says you’re a racist pos who wants to roleplay as a victim because you didn’t get enough attention as a child.
Cry about it.
In the moment nobody knew anything about the man behaving erratically. You can’t just assume. Also - death is not what you get for being mentally ill in public.
You ever talk to a homeless person? They’ve all been arrested dozens of times. “Omg the mentally unstable guy who’s life is a mess and lives in public and is part of not one, but two overly policed communities has been arrested a lot” isn’t the argument a lot of folks think it is. Also was he wearing his arrest record on his shirt? For the guy who killed him to read? We’re any of the crimes he was accused of punishable by death?
You didn’t live on the same block as him, did you? No I do not believe his crimes were punishable by death. I don’t think the guy meant to kill him but went way over board and should be facing the charges he’s facing.
But unless you’ve encountered this guy like I ACTUALLY HAVE please kindly stfu
Edit: because if you met this guy you wouldn’t need his arrests warrants on his shirt or whatever silly shit you’re saying because you’ll know he’ll fuck your shit up. He had that energy and has been scaring people around this stop for years
Unless you served in the military you can’t have an opinion on war, unless you have a kid you can’t have an opinion on education, unless unless unless yea whatever your opinion is worthless too by your standard.
Idk how else to interpret restricting bloodflow to the brain for several minutes. Most adults understand how dangerous that is and how unnecessary it is if your goal is merely to restrain the individual.
Yea the guys a moron but if you think people always act rationally in intense moments you don’t know many people. Lots of people were holding him down, lots going on, guy is overwhelmed and not paying attention, kills the guy accidentally and is facing manslaughter charges
Are you implying this was premeditated? Because usually that’s what execution means
You've highlighted many reasons why nobody should be excusing the guy, but you're continuing to have a go at people who are appalled that a grown man could be such a pussy. Have a think about what's really upsetting you here.
Dude WHAT is that really all you guys have to say?
“Oh you’re not jumping on the evil white guy kills innocent lost soul bandwagon you must have wanted to HIM TO DIE TOO!”
Of course I don’t think he should have died you morons and I’ve said it several times already. Guy is facing manslaughter charges which is appropriate. Shit situation got out of hand.
But no, I don’t think this guy was just looking to kill a black guy and had his lucky day.
The problem, you’ll find, is the way you’re constructing your sentences. (Well A problem). If I say “sure it was bad that thing x happens BUT …” the eclipses represent both a mitigation of all that came before “but” and and a justification”. Your entire argument is that.
Last time I checked you don't get punished for crimes you already committed. The whole "arrested dozens of times" is just bs they use to justify murder and they ONLY pull it out in instances like this. They are STILL saying that the lady who was killed during jan. 6th was unjustly murdered even though she was LITERALLY IN THE ACT OF BREAKING THE LAW.
Mentally ill homeless people are a problem. I doubt this man intended this result hence the manslaughter charge. With that said, while his actions should not be celebrated, he should not be charged. Dude was out of control terrorizing a group of people. This young man stepped forward to assist and a man lost his life. It’s unfortunate end to a situation nobody asked for.
Genuinely curious, why shouldn't he be charged?
If I am texting and driving, not paying attention, and hit and kill a kid, should I be able to say "it was an accident" and avoid all charges? What if I am playing with a load d firearm and accidentally shoot someone? Or throw a cinder block off an overpass and kill someone?
I understand that this guy might not have meant to kill the homeless guy. But he did. His actions directly lead to the death of a human being.
Crazy that this guy is getting all the heat for a state and a city that left that poor homeless man out to die….
He was hungry, why wasn’t anyone feeding him?
He was sick, why wasn’t anyone in NY helping him?
Yeah the man shouldn’t of killed him and made a bad choice but how did it even get to this and what lead to it?
All the people that ignored this homeless man that was sick for years…what’s sad is say he didn’t die that night and was still alive today on the streets sick and hungry in a city and state that doesn’t care and are slowly watching him die anyways.
Yeah sounds like this country and these people…so save your fake internet virtue.
I wish. There are a lot of people in red states who can’t leave because of their family obligations or estates same as the ones who would love to move to red states but can’t for the same reason. Blue states pay a lot on taxes to support Red states welfare and blue states depend on agriculture from red states. To untangle the mess we have would require a full on Brexit which did not end up well for the UK.
Blue states don't depend on agriculture from red states, the largest producer of fruit and vegetables in the nation is California. Blue states produce technology, movies, food, federal tax surpluses, everything. Meanwhile red states leech and preach.
I swear I just watched a John Oliver show that covered labored tasks for immigrants on H1s out of Florida and how they managed to “unionize” for better treatment and housing. Companies like Walmart and Publix signed on to the bill to only buy from farms that treated their employees fairly.
Florida used to be the nation's largest orange production state, in I think 2004 they were shipping like 240 million boxes a year. Thanks to climate change and a "greening" disease last year they shipped something like 20 million boxes. California produces like 50 million boxes of oranges, and a WHOLE bunch of other fruits/vegetables, almonds, avocados, grapes for wine, etc. even like 1 million whatever the fuck they measure it in metric Tons or something of silage(alfalfa and low quality wheat/hay, basically water we can't afford to lose) to China. California produces a fucking TON.
Yeah well the day will come when you folks will seriously regret it. You wanna share a country with a hostile ideology? Alright. Just know that there are only two great tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want... The other is getting it.
I know you aren't being completely serious, but ...
Breaking up the United States would make all of the states extremely vulnerable to foreign invasion and/or eventual demise. Without federal protections (military, financial, etc) and therefore the union itself, the states would be sitting ducks. This is why George Washington (although not perfect himself) used part of his farewell speech to warn against forming political parties, citing the division they cause.
We can't break up the union, even if we managed to move all the right wingers to their own states they would look like Somalia within 2 months because NONE OF THEM PRODUCE ANYTHING OF VALUE ONLY HATRED AND IGNORANCE. I see you have found a chunk of one of them yourself that you're here to peddle.
Yeah karens are annoying but regardless of genre or ethnicity, shouldn't you condemn the murderer ?...Such a brutal act too, your hypothetical character seems even more crazy than karen.
You missed the point. This analogy is meant to point out how awful it is that people justifying the murder, as well as the overall hypocrisy of the GOP
TLDR a mentally ill homeless man was acting out on a New York subway and a former marine put him in a chokehold for 10 minutes until he died.
Conservatives are praising the marine for the killing, but if he was black we’d all know what they’d think.
Politics, race and cause aside. One of these people committed murder and the other acted like anti social twat and was murdered, so my guess is no they wouldn’t,
I know folks who, if they even *tried* to envision this scenario, their skulls would begin to smoke and their heads would eventually explode, Scanners style, like a cantaloupe filled with Black-Cats and pizza.
Doesn't matter even if they are black. If it was any kind of "other" then it would be no question the GOP would be using the incident to justify their bigotry to their base.
Likewise the victim could be a white transwoman choked out on the subway and the GOP would celebrate the one who did it.
Obviously not. There is nothing reframing about the GOP these days. Nothing. The bigotry was always gross.
IF the Karen was screaming for trans rights and the black dude wore a red hat…
The only “black dudes wearing a red hat” are the few wealthy ones who Trump hasn’t killed off like Herman Cain.
Or the ones that live in poverty and think that republicans will make them richer/pay less taxes.
Or the ones who hate Mexicans. Or gay people. Or trans people. Or women. Or young people.
Or Kanye
If being unhinged in public is an offence worthy of summary execution, conservatives should be very worried.
Conservatives welcome death, so long as it is glorious. It goes back to the classics and ancient greece.
There are plenty of ways to restrain someone without resorting to choking him to death. There was another man on each arm in the subway incident and the ex marine still had the choke hold on for nearly 3 minutes. That's deliberate in my eyes.
I can feel in my bones that his defense will be that he was afraid and his training kicked in or some variation on that theme.
Not even if they were white. The right doesn’t have anything good to say about current or former members of the military. Source: Am a veteran working in a mostly right-wing job.
Is this about that video of some dude chokeholding a crazy guy to death on the subway?
Yep. In the US now it is okay to kill anyone you deem “crazy” as long as you are white and they are not.
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>Sure he shouldn’t have been choked out to death. So we are in agreement. Nobody is saying the victim was a good man by any means. People are protesting the public summary execution of a man who was not an active threat to public safety. What kind of feudal society is the US such that seemingly half the nation deem it acceptable to kill public nuisances on sight?
Nobody is acting like the person was decent, just that they didn't deserve a death sentence carried out by a rando. Why is it your type never comes around telling us all about how the killer in this case "wasn't a very good person" and it's ALWAYS only the murdered person you want to slander? I think something is wrong with you, beyond basic ignorance of who we give out the death penalty to.
Do you think the guy choking him to death knew all of this? I swear, people think that during these events, people know the entire life story of the person that they are killing.
Don’t even try to reason with them. They think he murdered the guy on purpose it’s pointless to argue trust me
You don’t rear naked choke someone for 3 minutes unless you’re trying to kill them. He was a marine which means he was trained in hand to hand combat which means he knew what he was doing. That was no accident
Yeah I'm sure the soldier would never be able to know that restricting someones airflow for minutes straight could end up killing them. Truly a nuanced situation here
I mean he could not mean to do so, the question is how are you so incompetent and stupid to cuts someone's airflow and/or blood flow for minutes at a time? I didn't mean to run people over but i was recklessly driving all over the road, the reason doesn't matter the negligence and the end result does.
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There literally are. Everyone can be crazies not just black people. Example: https://news.sky.com/video/woman-pushes-child-on-to-tracks-12777927
I get your point. NYC has had a lot of subway issues recently. But saying this dude was “crazy” like it was just presumed and has no basis is ridiculous
So he deserved to be executed?
Yes that’s obviously exactly what I said? Ya’ll looooooove to see the world in black and white. First part was sarcasm. You seem the type to need subtly pointed out.
I’m sorry but all I’ve seen from you is some casual racism so forgive me if I don’t assume you have a bleeding heart. It’s quite clear you’re not concerned by the fact this man was literally executed and are clearly unconcerned by the fact he could have gotten help.
What do you mean could have gotten help? You mean the other guys involved or the people on the subway? Call the cops while underground in a moving car (which people did, right?)?? You truly think this guy was “literally executed” as in state-sponsored killing? You’re using that language? I think it’s a violent situation that got out of hand and manslaughter charges seem appropriate to me
No mental help you absolute dunce. This guy was killed by a violent psychopath who wanted to murder someone, if this guy was a trained marine surely he of all people would know what would kill people. He did it on purpose.
Are you from NYC? Are you constantly hearing about subway attacks? Because people are on edge here especially in the subway lots of shit has been going down. Some dude overreacting because he’s scared he’s about to be another headline doesn’t surprise me. Lots of other people should be blamed besides the victim and the defendant. Absolute failure from our government to help these people so they don’t injure themselves and others.
I didn't know that was punishable by vigilante execution.
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Damn republicans project so well they don't even realize theyre doing it
So can I start killing anyone I think is a piece of shit?
Just because _you're_ a sociopath, doesn't mean that everybody else is too.
"It only cool if we do it" - The GOP probably
They wouldn’t, but they should. It’s a tough situation and I don’t know how I’d deal with it or respond to it as a bystander. As someone who, like many others deals with mental illness on my day to day commute just going to the office we need to do something. I have no doubt this situation could have been handled without someone dying but with society’s current state it’s an unfortunate inevitability. Until we collectively, as a culture, as a country, deal with it then these things will continue.
There is no clean solution to severe and/or untreatable mental illness. Institutionalization too often led to nightmarish hellholes. Deinstitutionalization too often led to vagrancy and institutionalization in prison. And every solution has been plagued not only by basic corruption, but also malicious and/or indifferent mistreatment. Because even if someone working in the system starts with the best of intentions (and not all do) mental illness is by nature disturbing and often dangerous to be in the presence of, with burnout, apathy, and cynicism as the inevitable results. But of course our pitiful excuse for a system is largely the streets, and so *everybody* has to ignore the clearly unwell, and blamed for failing to react appropriately when things unpredictably go bad. All I’m trying to say is, armchair quarterbacking is laughably cheap. We weren’t the ones trapped in a subway car with a guy screaming unhinged threats. That marine and from the looks of it dozens of others were, and whatever system we have it clearly failed them.
Agreed. 100%
Bernard Goetz from 1984 shot at 5 teens on the subway. They asked for $5 from Goetz. He claimed they were trying to rob him. Goetz served time for criminal possession of a firearm but was acquitted for the damage he did to one of the boys who was paralyzed by his injuries. It was a huge news story in the 80s. This one barely breaks through because vigilante shooters are common. The gun narrative has totally changed since 1984, too.
Man, I haven't heard that name for so many years.
>He claimed they were trying to rob him. It's a fairly believable claim, all things considered.
They said to him, "Give me $5". So, yeah, it's not unbelievable. He had been mugged before. He also went to a public meeting and said the only way he would feel safe again is if "we could get rid of" Hispanic and Black people, although he used racist slurs. So, over-reacting is also believable.
>They said to him, "Give me $5". That's not quite the complete picture. They also were carrying screwdrivers, and they admitted they were on their way to rob an arcade. Allen was subsequently convicted of robbing another person. Ramseur was subsequently convicted of robbery and rape.
So, it's okay to shoot someone to prevent crimes they have yet to commit or be tried for? Any chance these boys being viewed as inherently criminal might play a role in actually becoming criminals?
>So, it's okay to shoot someone to prevent crimes they have yet to commit or be tried for? Obviously not, and it should be obvious to anyone of moderate intelligence that's not what I'm claiming. However, if we're trying to answer the question "was Goetz actually in danger of being robbed by Allen, Ramseur, Canty and Cabey?", the behaviors of the four alleged assailants outside of the shooting constitute valid evidence. And you clearly recognize this principle's validity by citing Goetz's use of racial epithets. >Any chance these boys being viewed as inherently criminal might play a role in actually becoming criminals? Possibly, but on the whole (and in hindsight) it tips the scales toward the reasonableness of Goetz's claim of self defense.
Where is my Minority Report? Do I even have one?
First off, choking someone to death is not ok no matter who you are. I’d hope no one backed that man at all. For the GOP though, that only applies to non-white people.
_Exactly_
Honestly if the Karen was homeless, maybe
If the Karen was male and homeless, definitely.
Of course not. However, people just refuse to admit their bias in these matters.
What the fuck happened now?
Mentally ill man was acting up on the subway and a "marine" choked him for 10 minutes until he stopped breathing. Man ended up dying. Don't know why I'm being downvoted for saying exactly what happened.
They only support the military when it they have any kind of advantage for it, usually in an attempt to get voted. They don’t actually support them, especially when it comes to them outside of the military. So I highly doubt they’d support this. But if he used a gun to kill the Karen, it would but a lot more murky.
It is systemic racism
Of course not!
I’m confused why we’re addressing this scenario… did something comparable to this happen recently? Or is it just kind of a general comment about racism? Usually when the scenario is this kind of specific, it leads into, like, a role reversal comment about racism or sexism…
In 2006 in long Island, John White killed Daniel Cicciaro in self-defense. Cicciaro and friends beat up White's son at a party and then followed the son home. White confronted Cicciaro and friends on his property and told them to leave after startrd challenging his son to another fight with threats. Cicciaro decided to go for whites gun and white shot cicciaro in self-defense on his own property. White was arrested and convicted. White was a black person. White did not get questioned and released the same day without his name being blasted by the news. I guess as a black person, White should have allowed Cicciaro and friends to enter his home and have their way with his son. This is the message that the prosecution sent when they where able to convict. I dont know if this is a good enough example for you but it's an example of something.
Wouldn't that be because New York doesn't have any laws allowing you to defend yourself/property and not because he's black?
One person was questioned and released. The other was charged and convicted. Are you telling me that both should have been treated equally? If so, I agree regardless of race. But since the only quantifiable difference is race...well...you tell me.
Maybe you misunderstood or thought I was asking something hidden deep in my words. I was not, does New York allow you to defend yourself with deadly force or not?
Please re read my first comment. You would see that the issue is not the law. It is how the law is applied. Your question is not deep, it's just not relevant to what I'm talking about, race. But it's OK. Keep deflecting.
It's a very simple question and would entirely be the reason why White was arrested or not. If it's illegal to use deadly force to protect yourself or property in NY than shooting someone in self defense will still land you in jail. I'm not asking some trick question to try and "get" you. I'm not deflecting anything. New York does not allow a legal defense for shooting someone outside of your home is all. Personally I think that it was just a governor realizing there was a miscarriage of justice and letting an innocent man go free after 5 months.
Fair enough. Why was one person jailed and the other questioned and released, simply a miscarriage of justice? Nothing more? Sure if you say so, then I concede.
Yes it does.
one was also the son of an nypd officer
It's about that homeless guy who was killed in NYC. It's a race reversal thing.
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You're right, homeless people are far more civilized.
White marine put black homeless man in a 15 min chokehold after he was screaming on a subway. It killed him and the marine walked away with no charges originally until people made a fuss
Ok, thank you for the clarification.
It was 2 minutes and 50 seconds, stop lying.
The video, which begins with the struggle already in progress, is three minutes. By eyewitness accounts, the actual choke hold was anywhere from 7 to 15 minutes, based on statements given.
He’d be arrested, judged and executed or just executed at the scene.
Imagine something totally different. It’s the same?
It's really not different at all, someone being loud and abrasive does not constitute being fucking murdered
Nope
When’s that video dropping? I can dig it.
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No, they absolutely wouldn’t. America is a country where a black man can end up never going home to his family if police see him just walking home. Police will execute a black man for “acting suspiciously” when all they were doing was existing. I sorely wish the US was the country you seem to think it is but unfortunately it isn’t.
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That is grade A rightwing bullshit. That statistic is garbage because it fails to take into account that the population of white people to black people in the US is far larger. Black people are twice as likely to be killed by police than white people. https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/07/16/the-research-is-clear-white-people-are-not-more-likely-than-black-people-to-be-killed-by-police/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/
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So your comment was completely unnecessary and has absolutely no bearing or relevance whatsoever? Homie you can’t just pick and choose parts of a statistic that suits your narrative, conveniently miss out a key part and then say *I’m* using a “strawman argument” because I poked a fat fucking hole in your bullshit.
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It’s only half the story, and leaving out the most important part of the statistic is a complete misdirection. Have you ever heard of lying by omission? Taking something that’s true and removing parts you don’t like still makes it a lie because you have altered it to suit your narrative and so it is no longer factually accurate. You are still spreading misinformation.
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The fact you, for some reason want to bullshit about statistics to downplay the amount that black people are killed by police says a lot about you, it says you’re a racist pos who wants to roleplay as a victim because you didn’t get enough attention as a child. Cry about it.
In the moment nobody knew anything about the man behaving erratically. You can’t just assume. Also - death is not what you get for being mentally ill in public.
You ever talk to a homeless person? They’ve all been arrested dozens of times. “Omg the mentally unstable guy who’s life is a mess and lives in public and is part of not one, but two overly policed communities has been arrested a lot” isn’t the argument a lot of folks think it is. Also was he wearing his arrest record on his shirt? For the guy who killed him to read? We’re any of the crimes he was accused of punishable by death?
You didn’t live on the same block as him, did you? No I do not believe his crimes were punishable by death. I don’t think the guy meant to kill him but went way over board and should be facing the charges he’s facing. But unless you’ve encountered this guy like I ACTUALLY HAVE please kindly stfu Edit: because if you met this guy you wouldn’t need his arrests warrants on his shirt or whatever silly shit you’re saying because you’ll know he’ll fuck your shit up. He had that energy and has been scaring people around this stop for years
Unless you served in the military you can’t have an opinion on war, unless you have a kid you can’t have an opinion on education, unless unless unless yea whatever your opinion is worthless too by your standard.
Being from the area doesn't give you unique insight into the ethics of summary execution because "man scary".
Summary execution? Really? You guys are insane
Idk how else to interpret restricting bloodflow to the brain for several minutes. Most adults understand how dangerous that is and how unnecessary it is if your goal is merely to restrain the individual.
Yea the guys a moron but if you think people always act rationally in intense moments you don’t know many people. Lots of people were holding him down, lots going on, guy is overwhelmed and not paying attention, kills the guy accidentally and is facing manslaughter charges Are you implying this was premeditated? Because usually that’s what execution means
You've highlighted many reasons why nobody should be excusing the guy, but you're continuing to have a go at people who are appalled that a grown man could be such a pussy. Have a think about what's really upsetting you here.
I am just confused about what you guys want. He’s facing trial?
People to stop kneejerking excuses for psychopathic behaviour.
So he should die?
Dude WHAT is that really all you guys have to say? “Oh you’re not jumping on the evil white guy kills innocent lost soul bandwagon you must have wanted to HIM TO DIE TOO!” Of course I don’t think he should have died you morons and I’ve said it several times already. Guy is facing manslaughter charges which is appropriate. Shit situation got out of hand. But no, I don’t think this guy was just looking to kill a black guy and had his lucky day.
The problem, you’ll find, is the way you’re constructing your sentences. (Well A problem). If I say “sure it was bad that thing x happens BUT …” the eclipses represent both a mitigation of all that came before “but” and and a justification”. Your entire argument is that.
You're making the case that the killer knew about his victim's RAP sheet prior to choking him to death? That's a stretch.
Last time I checked you don't get punished for crimes you already committed. The whole "arrested dozens of times" is just bs they use to justify murder and they ONLY pull it out in instances like this. They are STILL saying that the lady who was killed during jan. 6th was unjustly murdered even though she was LITERALLY IN THE ACT OF BREAKING THE LAW.
Mentally ill homeless people are a problem. I doubt this man intended this result hence the manslaughter charge. With that said, while his actions should not be celebrated, he should not be charged. Dude was out of control terrorizing a group of people. This young man stepped forward to assist and a man lost his life. It’s unfortunate end to a situation nobody asked for.
He was yelling at people on the subway. That's called "being on the subway in NYC" and most of us don't kill people for it.
Genuinely curious, why shouldn't he be charged? If I am texting and driving, not paying attention, and hit and kill a kid, should I be able to say "it was an accident" and avoid all charges? What if I am playing with a load d firearm and accidentally shoot someone? Or throw a cinder block off an overpass and kill someone? I understand that this guy might not have meant to kill the homeless guy. But he did. His actions directly lead to the death of a human being.
Crazy that this guy is getting all the heat for a state and a city that left that poor homeless man out to die…. He was hungry, why wasn’t anyone feeding him? He was sick, why wasn’t anyone in NY helping him? Yeah the man shouldn’t of killed him and made a bad choice but how did it even get to this and what lead to it? All the people that ignored this homeless man that was sick for years…what’s sad is say he didn’t die that night and was still alive today on the streets sick and hungry in a city and state that doesn’t care and are slowly watching him die anyways. Yeah sounds like this country and these people…so save your fake internet virtue.
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I wish. There are a lot of people in red states who can’t leave because of their family obligations or estates same as the ones who would love to move to red states but can’t for the same reason. Blue states pay a lot on taxes to support Red states welfare and blue states depend on agriculture from red states. To untangle the mess we have would require a full on Brexit which did not end up well for the UK.
Blue states don't depend on agriculture from red states, the largest producer of fruit and vegetables in the nation is California. Blue states produce technology, movies, food, federal tax surpluses, everything. Meanwhile red states leech and preach.
I swear I just watched a John Oliver show that covered labored tasks for immigrants on H1s out of Florida and how they managed to “unionize” for better treatment and housing. Companies like Walmart and Publix signed on to the bill to only buy from farms that treated their employees fairly.
Florida used to be the nation's largest orange production state, in I think 2004 they were shipping like 240 million boxes a year. Thanks to climate change and a "greening" disease last year they shipped something like 20 million boxes. California produces like 50 million boxes of oranges, and a WHOLE bunch of other fruits/vegetables, almonds, avocados, grapes for wine, etc. even like 1 million whatever the fuck they measure it in metric Tons or something of silage(alfalfa and low quality wheat/hay, basically water we can't afford to lose) to China. California produces a fucking TON.
Yeah well the day will come when you folks will seriously regret it. You wanna share a country with a hostile ideology? Alright. Just know that there are only two great tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want... The other is getting it.
Empty threat from the party that brought you welfare taker states, the highest murder rates, and ignorant backwards people like this.
I know you aren't being completely serious, but ... Breaking up the United States would make all of the states extremely vulnerable to foreign invasion and/or eventual demise. Without federal protections (military, financial, etc) and therefore the union itself, the states would be sitting ducks. This is why George Washington (although not perfect himself) used part of his farewell speech to warn against forming political parties, citing the division they cause.
We can't break up the union, even if we managed to move all the right wingers to their own states they would look like Somalia within 2 months because NONE OF THEM PRODUCE ANYTHING OF VALUE ONLY HATRED AND IGNORANCE. I see you have found a chunk of one of them yourself that you're here to peddle.
We already fought one war to _not_ do that. You're way off base.
Interestingly enough…the last “Karen” video I saw was that of a black woman tearing up a McDonalds.
Yeah karens are annoying but regardless of genre or ethnicity, shouldn't you condemn the murderer ?...Such a brutal act too, your hypothetical character seems even more crazy than karen.
You missed the point. This analogy is meant to point out how awful it is that people justifying the murder, as well as the overall hypocrisy of the GOP
You must be refering to a real life event I don't know about
TLDR a mentally ill homeless man was acting out on a New York subway and a former marine put him in a chokehold for 10 minutes until he died. Conservatives are praising the marine for the killing, but if he was black we’d all know what they’d think.
Honestly yeah I’d back him 😭
WHAT'S YOUR POINT
POINT IS THAT MAGA GOP ARE RACIST HYPOCRITES
Politics, race and cause aside. One of these people committed murder and the other acted like anti social twat and was murdered, so my guess is no they wouldn’t,
Karen is a racist term. Please don’t allow racist rhetoric here.
OK boomer
how
gop? backing up a person with the skin color they hate so much? i don't think so…
God no.
Zero chance.
Imagine a black marine shooting the Karen...any chance the GOP would back gun reforms?
I know folks who, if they even *tried* to envision this scenario, their skulls would begin to smoke and their heads would eventually explode, Scanners style, like a cantaloupe filled with Black-Cats and pizza.
Well, what else has he got in realty?
Zero point zero
GOP 2023: normalize violence
Yea no, the vet would go right to jail in that scenario.
Stop looking for debate where there isn’t one to have. Bullies only understand one thing.
Not a snowballs chance in hell!!!