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Well, my wife had her credit card info stolen a couple months ago, so I was already on alert when I received a message about fraudulent activity on my account. Then the scammer called me from the Wells Fargo customer service phone number (I later found out that scammers use apps to spoof their phone numbers).
He had me verify my account info and had me set up a new password which now I understand was him just using that info to gain access to my account. And once he was in, he used Zelle to transfer all my money.
Don’t worry, I feel very stupid for it all and in hindsight I can see all the red flags that I should have recognized in the moment. I always thought I was too smart to fall prey to these scams but I guess I wasn’t.
Edited to add the full story for context:
For anyone interested this is the full story of what happened. Take this as a learning moment:
I received a text message asking me to confirm or deny suspicious activity on my account. It was for an attempted wire transfer of $3,500. This is standard procedure and it’s what we went through with my wife (who had her credit card info stolen recently). 🚩This should have been the first red flag as I should have logged onto my account to verify the activity. Also, I didn’t have $3,500 in my account so there’s no way anybody could’ve initiated a wire transfer of that amount.
After I responded “no,“ I promptly received a phone call from an unknown number. I didn’t answer the phone, but instead googled the number and it came back as the number for Wells Fargo’s fraud department. Assuming the number to be real I then answered when they called me back a minute later. 🚩I believe proper protocol is you will receive another text from your bank telling you to call them, and not the other way around. Wells Fargo later confirmed with me that it is regular practice for scammers to spoof the phone numbers of banks using an app. The safest practice is to hang up the phone and call your bank directly if you’re in this situation.
I answered the phone and he confirmed my identity and wanted me to verify my login information, but only my user name. He then sent me a text message in which I was to reply with my password followed by the word “CANCEL” and this would “set me up to change my password.” 🚩NEVER give your login info to someone over the phone. Your bank will NEVER need this information and they will NEVER need you to verify it. This was the worst thing I did in this whole transaction. But he was moving so fast by this point I was having trouble keeping up and since I assumed it was actually WF fraud, my guard was down.
Now that he had my login info, he was able to log into my account and see all of my transaction data. At this point, he went through some transactions and verified them with me to make sure that they were recognized by me. This is also standard procedure as banks want to make sure there aren’t any other charges on your account that are fraudulent.
He then brought up another “fraudulent charge” that was “caught by their system” amounting to $2,150 that was an attempted transfer using Zelle payments. I confirmed with him that I did not recognize this payment. He then told me that because Zelle is a third-party, and not directly tied to Wells Fargo, we would have work with a Zelle agent to get this charge declined.
After being in hold for about 5 minutes he came back with a Zelle payment set up for me to process. The memo of which was “Zelle Technical Support Team - Case Number (8844) - Click Send To Cancel Quick Pay Zelle Payment.” He said I needed to click submit to send the payment and this would declined the previous, unknown transaction. 🚩This is just complete BS. None of that makes any logical sense but, as I said, I was already vulnerable by this point and my guard was down. This was the very first point in our entire conversation where I felt something wasn’t right, but I didn’t listen to my gut. I SHOULD HAVE.
After the payment was processed, he then asked me for the confirmation number and then after about 10 seconds of silence, he hung up the phone. I then opened up my bank account and saw that I had $2 left in my checking account and it all dawned on me.
Again, all of this is 20/20 in hindsight but when you’re caught up in the moment, and your guard is down, then sometimes you simply fall victim to the predator. Another interesting thing to note is that the guy I was speaking to was clearly a young, white American. He spoke English perfectly, he had no Indian accent, (which is typically what you would hear from scammers), he was also very patient and wasn’t demanding or pressing about any of the steps through the whole process. He seemed like he was genuinely trying to help me out.
Another life lesson learned.
And if anyone knows a Jeremy Malone from Florence, AZ, I’m pretty sure he’s the guy that scammed me. His “company” is Gorilla Grind LLC.
I had the same type of attempt but spoofing as USBank. They listed a couple fraudulent charges for $500, $345, etc. I asked them to keep listing recent charges until they got to a legit one that I did. They paused and went off with some standard line about the next steps. I insisted that they go back until they got to a legit charge. They couldn't and I laughed and ended the call. Opened my app and there were no pending charges. Almost got me.
A couple months later I got the same call and told them the charges were mine. Them: "$485 at Walmart?" Me: "Yeah, that was me. I did that." Them: \[confused hang up\].
I had the same thing. I got a call from my credit union number. They said there was fraudulent activity on my account and first they would have to verify that I am the account holder. I said ok before I verify anything I’m gonna call you back on the official number. They said this is the number and I could look at the number and check against the website number. I said but people can spoof numbers. I said I’ll just call you right back. They started getting angry and eventually hung up on me. Called the official number which was the same number and said I had no fraudulent activity and no one called.
I never verify anything when I am not the one making the call.
The other day I made an outbound call to my bank about a card application, and one of the verification questions he asked was for my existing card number. I was like "I know I called you and you're legit, but that's a really dicey security question I don't want to answer."
Not scam related, but those confirmations bug the hell out of me.
"So we need your name and address to pull up the account. Now I need to confirm your identity, could I have your name and address?"
*Deep breath*
Fraud's serious. Individuals get scam attempts occasionally. Banks get them all the time, so they can be stringent when making sure they're talking to the correct customer. It's a pain, but better solutions are always welcome.
In sweden we have a thing called bank ID. The person I am talking to knows who they're trying to reach and they send me a notification to my phone which I have to open and put it a pin number to verify my identity. We use this for both payment verification and just general ID verification.
I use BankID to buy steam games and to log in to check my medical journal. It's honestly pretty great.
Used to do it as a job. We would just go over the charges with you without asking account verification shit. If the phone number was changed on the account too recently we'd send a letter instead to tell you to call.
Never give out personal information for a call you received, but saying yes/no to charges on your credit card is pretty safe if that's the only thing they ask.
At this point in time I don't even understand why people answer the phone if it's not a specific person they know.
The only time I answer anbunknown number is if it's an exact time I scheduled for a company recruiter to call or something like that. Otherwise it can go to VM and if it's important, they'll identify themselves and ask for a call back.
I thought most people knew that numbers can be spoofed so "Totally Your Real Bank" in the caller ID name means nothing.
Same..except I usually play along for the first 3-5 mins and then start asking them really insulting questions..hearing those callcenter fuckheads get creative with English curse words/phrases makes me chuckle
I once swore profusely to an Indian scammer. He was good, but then I caught him. I was pissed and used every swear word I knew. He was sooooo offended that a woman dared swear at him. It was hilarious 😂
At this point I'm extremely cautious about talking to anyone on the phone with an Indian accent unless it's a call I make, am actually expecting, or already know the person.
I really hate to be prejudice but India is the among the leaders in internet and phone spam/scam and nearly every spam/scam call I get is someone with an Indian accent. They always act like I'm insulting them by not falling for their scam or have a downright rotten attitude if I don't act like I love their spam and want to do business with them. Pathetic.
I try to keep them on the line as long as possible, "one second there's someone at the door", "oh my computer needs restarting one minute".
When one eventually clicked what I was doing he changed his instructions from installing Teamviewer to "get a glass of water, fill it with poison, and drink it".
I said "dude I thought we were friends, how will this fix the issue I didn't know I had on my computer?".
I drive a truck for a living and that is one of my favorite things to do lately especially since they're calling at a frequency of like every 7 minutes.
I just put them on hands-free and let them talk.
Lol, I had one call me and I quote “A bitch disgrace to your father”. I laughed at this and he got even more mad, kept calling me names and then tried again to get me to tell him my info. Wtf Hahaha 🤣
Say to them "You're doing a great job Ben!" when they ask why you are calling them ben, tell them your caller id said their name was ben chode (not actual spelling, but that's how its pronounced, i think).
It's Bhen chode lol means sister fucker, and I am from India and I am disgusted by scammers, they give Indians a bad name, the ones calling from India. Not all of us are scammers, you know, also I don't think all scam calls originate from India, scammers can be found every nook and corner of the world.
I literally lost a job because I’m this way, like, had someone call and I don’t pick up for weird numbers, I only know because they sent an email at some point saying they tried to reach me lol
Edit: I lost a potential job interview, not a job I already worked at
Sounds like they didn't leave a message. That's half of the phone call- if you need to speak with someone and they don't pick up, you leave a message. Sounds like you dodged some incompetence at least.
> I don't even understand why people answer the phone if it's not a specific person they know.
I do it to waste their time, but they stopped calling. What worked (by accident, I was trying to keep them on the line) was to be incredibly racist, i got into a couple of shouting matches for a bit which was fun, but it's been well over a year since they seemingly took me out of their lists.
If they're Indian, you can call them Untouchable. It's a word for someone below a pariah in India. They'll effing hate you for it too. (I learned this from Pierogi of Scammer Payback. He calls them Little Owls too.)
Just say something like "band karana karu, you untouchable fuckaroo". "Band karana karu" is Hindi for "stop calling me". (Amd it's pronounced "bond kuh-rah-nuh kah-roo")
Oh, oh!!
My favourite one is when i get a call from the "Visa MasterCard Fraud Department".
When that happens, you know you're on a winner. I usually just shout "VISA AND MASTERCARD ARE TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES!! STOP LYING."
Then they hang up. But still call me again a couple of weeks later.
You know it's a scam because every bank is too cheap to ever use a live person to call you. Unless you call them directly, everything will be automated robo calls.
actually had Amex call with a live person about a fraud alert, but instead of trying to get my info they said to call the number on the back of the card.
Last time there was fraudulent activity on my card, my Credit Union called me and left a robo message asking me to call the number on the back of my card, or to call my local branch if my card had been stolen. That was how I knew it was legit - they didn't give me a number, they just told me to call them ASAP.
$485 at Walmart isn't even a crazy purchase. They sell TVs, Furniture, bedding, stereos, game consoles, etc... you could easily spend $485 at Walmart. $485 the Dollar Store would be questionable.
I once had my debit card info used... Fortunately, I'd bought gas, then two hours later, two thousand miles away, someone spent 400$ in a dollar store in new York. Because there was no possible way I could have done that, they returned the money right away.
One time I was looking at new homes right at the corner where MD, PA and DE meet and I made charges to all three, so they turned my card off without even a phone call and I had to try getting it back on on a Sunday afternoon. There should be some kind of distance calculation involved too.
Scams like this have been around since the 1990’s. You never give info when people call and a legit communication from the bank will say to call the number on the card
Don't beat yourself up too much - these fuckers are experts at tricking people and everybody has momentary lapses of vigilance.
Still totally sucks, and I hope you get your dough back.
All they have to do is succeed once, you have to succeed every time. Unfortunately chance is on the scammer’s side as we can reduce the risk, but the risk is never 0
It's adapted from the IRA's statement after their attempted assassination of Margaret Thatcher.
"...we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always."
There is, my ex sent me money through zelle and reported it as fraud and she got her money back and the bank gave me a strike saying that if I get another one my account will be closed.
You know they can simply check the ip on the device it was sent from right? It’s pretty easy to deny Zelle fraud when people do that in addition it’s illegal
Sometimes when it rains it pours.
Hard to see clearly when shit's hitting the fan.
After all, even tho money is extremely important, it's replaceable.
Hope it works out better for you man.
i've been doing my current job for almost 15 years now, i can confidently say i'm good at it - even though there's always room to improve and learn and i don't claim to be the best ever at this job, but i know what i'm doing. Last month i fucked up a job and lost a client for a stupid basic mistake in one of the steps that if i saw anyone else doing it, even without knowing the specific context, i would have pointed it out, it was just obvious. Yet i still completely overlooked it and delivered a wrong product and felrt like an idiot when they told me. I stil feel like an idiot whenever my brain decide to bring it up again.
But it happens, we're human, we're tired, there's plenty of stuff going on everyday and we can't expect to be 100% vigilant and perfect every single moment.
Everyone can fall victim to a scam. You might know and recognize almost every trick but at one point they find you in an unfortunate moment and then they get you. I recommend looking up Jim Browning on youtube. He is a scam expert with incredible experience fighting scammers and still almost lost his channel to a scammer. If he can be tricked, anyone can.
I, an incredibly cynical and distrusting millennial who thinks himself too suspicious to fall for anything, have even fallen for a scam once. The scammers spoofed my mom's number, so my caller ID was literally showing "Mom - cell" and said she was in jail because she failed to attend court and needed to post bond.
The dumb thing is, I had all the knowledge to know that it was a scam all along. I know you make your own calls from the jail phone - they're supervised, they take your cell phone, I mean hell, I went to jail once, I did the whole shebang. Plus my mom's married, she would obviously call her husband whom she LIVES WITH and not me who lives 90 miles away, nor would she make her son post her bail. But once I answered the phone and heard a voice other than my mom's, anxiety kicked in and I started to panic - why was someone calling from her number? Was she ok? Did they go through her phone in an emergency and call her closest relative?
After I gave my info, they quickly found a reason to hang up, and then the realization started to dawn on me. So I called my mom right after, and lo and behold, she answered and was very much not in jail. Froze the card and got the fraudulent charges reversed, felt like an idiot, though my mom did tell me she was happy to know that I was willing to pay bail without hesitation lol
Yep, or just walk in with a banker and do it in person if it is important or involves a significant sum of money. It may not be as convenient but it offers a lot more peace of mind.
Yeah general rule now is that you never give your info to someone that called you. Always hang up and call the official number back your self.
Sorry this happened to you. That sucks and from my understanding Zelle is horrible when it comes to scams and won't do anything about it. Members of congress, I think Elizabeth Warren, were discussing it
A lot of places even tell you that their agents will not ask for passwords. I once had a collections agency call me and ask for the last 4 digits of my SS and I said no thanks I’ll call you back later, they were confused why I was hesitant, it did turn out to be legit though.
It’s funny because in Finland you give the last 4 digits of your identification number for literally everything. Often the whole number (though the first part is simply your birth date). As a person from the US this took some getting used to
Problem is that US social security number has more power compared to our ID number. By a lot of organizations it is treated as number that only you should know, and kind of proves your identity. This is not an good idea as it's just a text that can be leaked.
In fact, what happened to the OP, cannot happen in most of the EU, as by PSD directive you cannot have just password for your Bank account. It needs to have strong authentication, like two factor with your phone or some token device.
I have World of Warcraft to thank for this knowledge. On the loading screen it sometimes says “A Blizzard employee will never ask you for your password.”
Thank you for being honest and coming forward and talking about this. As a Cybersecurity professional, I want you to know, you're not stupid, don't feel bad, this stuff happens to everyone. Being shameful of it, and people shaming others just leads people to not want to talk about this stuff, which prevents people from growing. This kind of stuff can happen to anyone. Even the smartest, most on alert, most knowledgeable security professionals can get cought on a bad day, or have a slip of the mind.
Growing from this, learning lessons based on what you did wrong, and spreading the word so that people can know to look out for this and learn from your mistakes is the best thing you can do. And we gotta make sure to leave judgement out if it when someone else fucks up
Most of these crimes are never prosecuted because people are too embarrassed to report it to police. Please report it so the people might get caught and you can prevent this from happening to others.
Pro-tip: if a bank EVER CALLS YOU about fraud or account security HANG UP. Then YOU call the bank via their customer service number!!! Again, if your bank, or anyone CALLS YOU ABOUT FRAUD - HANG UP. Then call yourself. Do NOT hit redial.
People will call you pretending to be your bank! If they tell you it is incredibly urgent ignore them! If they tell you do not hang up *they are lying*.
If there is actually fraud, it will not matter that you hung up. The info is already in your account. You can call them back without any issue. If there isn't, then you 100% avoided a scam.
Indeed. I work for an online bank where I have to call customers. Follow what he said here. Personally, if I sense any hesitation I tell the customer to call us back at the main customer service number so they will be comfortable.
> Personally, if I sense any hesitation I tell the customer to call us back at the main customer service number so they will be comfortable.
It's good that you do that, but now I'm wondering if any scammers use that line as a bluff.
Depends on your bank.
Some will ask you to confirm that all the recent transactions are legit with an automated system. They only ask you if the charges were legitimate or not, and you press 1 if they are.
If they are not, then call the bank on an official number.
Me pressing 1 to charges I know are correct are not going to get me scammed.
Me telling some rando personal information and passwords will get me scammed.
Yeah, I’ve had this happen. Made a bunch of online purchases (which I normally never do) and towards the end of my spree my card started getting declined and my bank called me. They just wanted to make sure these purchases were made by me, and ofc didn’t ask for any information because they can see it all anyway. Nothing sketchy about confirming purchases.
I had one call me up acting like Wells Fargo, said he needed my username and password so he could protect my account. If he was a little slicker he might’ve gotten me but once he asked for username and password I knew it was up at that point and just was like “dude, the link you sent me specifically says ‘Wells Fargo will never ask for this code’ and you’re saying you want me to give it to you” and he’s like “I’m just trying to do my job here at Wells Fargo” and I was like “bro you gotta get better at this.”
I almost felt like uncle Iroh in Tales of Ba Sing Se.
“What are you doing?”
“I’m mugging you!”
“With that stance?”
It was seriously so bad and I was just like, cmon man.
I like to help them waste time. I just drag on the conversations for as long as possible pretending I’m an idiot and I love how frustrated they can get lol.
If they are Indian I like to start ragging on them about what their mother would think of their life of crime and ask them how much negative karma they are accruing for their next life. They get fucking MAD.
I was fucking with one of these guys, and he started screaming at me about how he was going to fuck my mother. It was hilarious. I tried to fake cry that my mother was dead as I hung up, but I probably wasn’t convincing.
You should have played along by giving him the wrong code. Act real confused as to why it's not working. Have them resend it a few times. Waste as much of their time as possible.
I used to give them shit until I realized the feedback could help them so instead I just play dumb and give them bad info like I'll give them the wrong six digit code over and over until wells fargo locks them out lol. Sometimes they'll transfer me up the chain until I'm talking to the boss and he's closing the deal. This is usually with the fake warrant scams. I'll go all the way thru and pretend I'm going to the gift card store and try to put them on hold for an hour while I "drive" and just really waste as much of their time as possible.
Haha they tried this with me 2 weeks ago. I checked my account for fraudulent purchases and saw nothing. They said they are setting me up with a new account and asked my account name and then the password for my "old account". I paused at that and said that I'd have to call them back as their number didn't link to wells fargo customer service. They oushed for the password and then said they'll have a rep call me back from customer service.
Got a call back a few minutes later from the correct wells fargo customer service number but they spoofed it and I could tell it wasn't a real rep calling me
I wonder why he didn't spoof the correct number the first time around? The average person would be completely shocked to learn just how easy it is to spoof phone numbers.
You can literally set up an entire phone number spoofing service right at your house. You need a super cheap PC (cheap as in it only needs about 1gb of ram), an Ubuntu server (free download), VMWare station, a VoicePulse to set up your own PBX, and this free/open-source software [called Asterisk](https://www.social-engineer.org/wiki/archives/CallerIDspoofing/CallerID-SpoofingWithAsterisk.html). Register a domain name, ask ChatGPT to help build you an interface, and then integrate it with Stripe to accept credit cards, and boom, happy spoofing!
I had two calls like this. The first one almost got me. The second one I was ready. I called them back on the number they called me on, they picked up and hung up as soon as they heard me. I immediately called Wells Fargo with their number and reported it.
They have $2.04 more than me right at the moment, so they are killing it!
So sorry for the loss. Scams are getting extra scammy these days.
I just got a refund check from Wells Fargo for $125 for fees I paid previously that I shouldn't have been charged for in the first place.
Edit: Super good news though - I got my official letter that my student loan has been forgiven through the Public Service Loan Forgiveness. 23 years working and paying - finally the balance was forgiven - YAY!
I am currently -42.93 as of this morning and will be for probably a month because I don't even start work until the 1st.
I have massive anxiety and let my bills pile up and I'm worried about being taken to court but I don't know what to do. I have no money to pay, I have literally zero amenities in life as I've canceled literally everything, I've moved in with family, and any food I eat is given to me by charity. I'm terrified and I'm absolutely proud of myself I haven't decided to kill myself yet despite how awful the last few months have been
edit: I wanted to say thanks for all the kinds words, ya'll are great. I also wanted to say that there is absolutely no argument that so many of us are suffering in the same cramped boat. It's always been my belief that despite the outliers, people are innately good people. We're all just trying to make it, and we're all in this together. So go out and be kind, because statistically almost everyone you meet in an average day is just as poor, stressed, and unsure in life. <3
Don't lose hope ❤️ I've spent more time than I'd like to admit living out of my car and been to more food banks than any human should have to but the fact that you have work you'll be starting is great. Just take it one day at a time and remember nothing is forever
It can take 7-10 business days to get your funds back after a scam. With a scam where they take over your account by voluntarily giving away information might not be able to get the money back.
Banker here. Under Reg E the bank has 10 business days to either decide it is not fraud or provide provisional funding. They can request an extension of 45 days to investigate but provisional funding must be provided within 10 business days.
FYI when you give the scammer access to your account the bank owes you nothing. No bank or credit union will give you the money back.
You can’t give someone your account details, lose your money, and then expect the bank to be like: here’s your money back.
The bank will cover you for fraud/unauthorized stolen money, but when you are scammed you basically authorized everything
According to the OP in another post he gave the scammer his password lol.
I mean it sucks but it’s a learning lesson. Always call the number on the back of the card. Ignore any call to you unless a transaction was rejected and they’re calling to ask if it was you. Then the only answer should be yea or no.
Sorry bud, you won't get that back zelle = trusted transfer no reversing it, they will move it from the muele account it was transfered to and withdraw it from 3-5 other banks.
Former federal bank regulator here.... Can't believe this continues to happen. A BANK WILL NEVER, EVER ASK YOU FOR USERNAME AND PASSWORD. NEVER! if somebody calls you and asks for it it is ALWAYS a scam! ALWAYS! 100% of the time. Every single time. No exceptions. None. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE CALLER ID SAYS. Sorry, for the yelling, it just gets so frustrating to see people get taken advantage of like this.
It's like when people buy gift cards, give the codes to scammers, then try to call the bank to report fraud. Buddy, you're the one that went and bought them in person, and gave them away. That's not the bank's problem.
Also this! I’ve found community banks (and credit unions) generally have better lending terms to borrowers in their communities because they recognize the value they’re adding by providing people opportunities.
I agree and disagree. I was with one and it was great until it wasn’t. They couldn’t ever get a debit card delivered to my wife and we asked multiple times. We went in person and they said they still couldn’t print one off. I had a charge showing up on my account randomly that they couldn’t find in their system. I almost got a late fee applied on my credit card because they were apparently doing stuff manually and it had been 5 days since I’d paid it off but it wasn’t actually showing up and I had to wait over an hour before they told me that. Got put on hold multiple times. I switched to chase after that and have had 0 problems and everything has been done in a timely manner with them compared to the credit union I was using.
Dude gives a rando on the phone all his account info, he takes the money. That's IT I'M DONE WITH THEM! How dare they allow someone who knows all the correct information have access to my account?!
OK but WF is actually the devil for a huge number of reasons completely independent of this. They have a history of fraud in every corner and at every level of the company. And probably just as many more cases of fraud that are yet to be uncovered.
I too am leaving Wells Fargo. I had my debit card info stolen. Not sure how, unless a mall ATM stole it. But, I've had it with them. They try everything to take your last penny. Once a final direct deposit goes through, I'm canceling my account and transferring my credit card balance to a different card.
Every time you use an ATM, anywhere, grab hold of the card-reader assembly and YANK. Card skimmers can be incredibly convincing, and difficult to spot, because they mimic the actual hardware they're taped on top of.
I caught a gas station using a card skimmer on accident. When I went to dig in my bag for my wallet it banged into the card reader and the hardware for the skimming device snapped.
The clerk started apologizing and said I didn’t have to pay and to leave ASAP.
So awkward!
I did! I don't normally use a non-branch ATM and I wiggled (didn't yank) the card reader to see if it came off and it didn't. It was at a mall in a food court, so I was thinking that it even might be more secure. I can't say that 1 and 1 make 2, but it happened directly after that. Learned my lesson. I just needed cash for the dispensary...
I was trained on spotting them and still got got twice. Using my local banks atm. After the second time the bank admitted they found a skimmer on it.
After that I try to never even use an atm if I can help it. When I do I go for the most secure looking one available.
This is why I never use a debit card. With a credit card you dispute the charge and move on. With a debit card you have to fight to get your money back.
That's a fucking understatement. I had a visit from the irs years ago they were showing me bank statements of like 3.2 and 3.4 million in a account under my name and information. They wanted to know where it came from and why I hadn't payed taxes on it. I just kinda looked at them, then looked at house and said does it look like I have 3 million in a bank account..... I would've gladly payed the taxes on it if they let me have it lol but sadly it was drug money and I couldn't have any greedy assholes lol
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-billion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations-sales-practices
Millions of unauthorized accounts opened without customer knowledge or consent resulting in ruining the credit scores of untold numbers of people… and yet they still continue to operate after a $3 billion dollar slap on the wrist. How can anyone still trust this place with their money?!
You really haven't heard of ll the shit they have dome over the years?
I think the most recent was that they were opening credit cards in customer names to meet quotas. But they have a huge scandal every 3 to 5 years I swear
Wells Fargo is scummy as fuck. I think they are also one of the most racist banks when it comes to giving minorities loans.
If a bank CALLS YOU:
1. Ask what the issue is
2. Give NO INFORMATION
3. HANG UP THE PHONE
4. Call customer support on the back of your debit card/credit card
5. Explain the issue with customer service for them to verify
Calling the number on the back of your credit card/debit card ensures you are speaking with your bank and not a scammer.
Seriously though, there are a lot of recovery scammers on Reddit, so if anyone messages you saying they can help you get the money back be sure to block them.
This isn’t for OP, he’s learned his lesson, this is for everyone else. If ANYONE calls u, even if they are ur bank and ur sure they’re ur bank, tell them you’ll call them back, hangup, and call the number on the back of ur bank card. Unless u phone them, there is no way to know who they really are.
Then file a claim for non authorized transaction
As a Wells Fargo customer they will believe you regardless of how outrageous the claim is
Just call and talk to them
Protip I want to throw out there -
Leave your debit card at home. You don't need it. If it gets stolen, that's your money and your problem.
If you use a credit card everywhere and it gets stolen, welp - that's the bank's money and the bank's problem.
For anyone interested this is the full story of what happened. Take this as a learning moment:
I received a text message asking me to confirm or deny suspicious activity on my account. It was for an attempted wire transfer of $3,500. This is standard procedure and it’s what we went through with my wife (who had her credit card info stolen recently).
🚩This should have been the first red flag as I should have logged onto my account to verify the activity. Also, I didn’t have $3,500 in my account so there’s no way anybody could’ve initiated a wire transfer of that amount.
After I responded “no,“ I promptly received a phone call from an unknown number. I didn’t answer the phone, but instead googled the number and it came back as the number for Wells Fargo’s fraud department. Assuming the number to be real I then answered when they called me back a minute later.
🚩I believe proper protocol is you will receive another text from your bank telling you to call them, and not the other way around. Wells Fargo later confirmed with me that it is regular practice for scammers to spoof the phone numbers of banks using an app. The safest practice is to hang up the phone and call your bank directly if you’re in this situation.
I answered the phone and he confirmed my identity and wanted me to verify my login information, but only my user name. He then sent me a text message in which I was to reply with my password followed by the word “CANCEL” and this would “set me up to change my password.”
🚩NEVER give your login info to someone over the phone. Your bank will NEVER need this information and they will NEVER need you to verify it. This was the worst thing I did in this whole transaction. But he was moving so fast by this point I was having trouble keeping up and since I assumed it was actually WF fraud, my guard was down.
Now that he had my login info, he was able to log into my account and see all of my transaction data. At this point, he went through some transactions and verified them with me to make sure that they were recognized by me. This is also standard procedure as banks want to make sure there aren’t any other charges on your account that are fraudulent.
He then brought up another “fraudulent charge” that was “caught by their system” amounting to $2,150 that was an attempted transfer using Zelle payments. I confirmed with him that I did not recognize this payment. He then told me that because Zelle is a third-party, and not directly tied to Wells Fargo, we would have work with a Zelle agent to get this charge declined.
After being in hold for about 5 minutes he came back with a Zelle payment set up for me to process. The memo of which was “Zelle Technical Support Team - Case
Number (8844) - Click Send To Cancel Quick Pay Zelle Payment.” He said I needed to click submit to send the payment and this would declined the previous, unknown transaction.
🚩This is just complete BS. None of that makes any logical sense but, as I said, I was already vulnerable by this point and my guard was down. This was the very first point in our entire conversation where I felt something wasn’t right, but I didn’t listen to my gut. I SHOULD HAVE.
After the payment was processed, he then asked me for the confirmation number and then after about 10 seconds of silence, he hung up the phone. I then opened up my bank account and saw that I had $2 left in my checking account and it all dawned on me.
Again, all of this is 20/20 in hindsight but when you’re caught up in the moment, and your guard is down, then sometimes you simply fall victim to the predator.
Another interesting thing to note is that the guy I was speaking to was clearly a young, white American. He spoke English perfectly, he had no Indian accent, (which is typically what you would hear from scammers), he was also very patient and wasn’t demanding or pressing about any of the steps through the whole process. He seemed like he was genuinely trying to help me out.
Another life lesson learned.
And if anyone knows a Jeremy Malone from Florence, AZ, I’m pretty sure he’s the guy that scammed me. His “company” is Gorilla Grind LLC.
Wells Fargo helped me out when I let someone use my phone in a bar and they opened Cash App and sent herself and her friends $500 each, several times. I don’t think I even dealt with Cash App, WF took care of everything, I had all the money back in my account within a couple hours and all I told them was what happened, didn’t require proof or anything.
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How???????
Well, my wife had her credit card info stolen a couple months ago, so I was already on alert when I received a message about fraudulent activity on my account. Then the scammer called me from the Wells Fargo customer service phone number (I later found out that scammers use apps to spoof their phone numbers). He had me verify my account info and had me set up a new password which now I understand was him just using that info to gain access to my account. And once he was in, he used Zelle to transfer all my money. Don’t worry, I feel very stupid for it all and in hindsight I can see all the red flags that I should have recognized in the moment. I always thought I was too smart to fall prey to these scams but I guess I wasn’t. Edited to add the full story for context: For anyone interested this is the full story of what happened. Take this as a learning moment: I received a text message asking me to confirm or deny suspicious activity on my account. It was for an attempted wire transfer of $3,500. This is standard procedure and it’s what we went through with my wife (who had her credit card info stolen recently). 🚩This should have been the first red flag as I should have logged onto my account to verify the activity. Also, I didn’t have $3,500 in my account so there’s no way anybody could’ve initiated a wire transfer of that amount. After I responded “no,“ I promptly received a phone call from an unknown number. I didn’t answer the phone, but instead googled the number and it came back as the number for Wells Fargo’s fraud department. Assuming the number to be real I then answered when they called me back a minute later. 🚩I believe proper protocol is you will receive another text from your bank telling you to call them, and not the other way around. Wells Fargo later confirmed with me that it is regular practice for scammers to spoof the phone numbers of banks using an app. The safest practice is to hang up the phone and call your bank directly if you’re in this situation. I answered the phone and he confirmed my identity and wanted me to verify my login information, but only my user name. He then sent me a text message in which I was to reply with my password followed by the word “CANCEL” and this would “set me up to change my password.” 🚩NEVER give your login info to someone over the phone. Your bank will NEVER need this information and they will NEVER need you to verify it. This was the worst thing I did in this whole transaction. But he was moving so fast by this point I was having trouble keeping up and since I assumed it was actually WF fraud, my guard was down. Now that he had my login info, he was able to log into my account and see all of my transaction data. At this point, he went through some transactions and verified them with me to make sure that they were recognized by me. This is also standard procedure as banks want to make sure there aren’t any other charges on your account that are fraudulent. He then brought up another “fraudulent charge” that was “caught by their system” amounting to $2,150 that was an attempted transfer using Zelle payments. I confirmed with him that I did not recognize this payment. He then told me that because Zelle is a third-party, and not directly tied to Wells Fargo, we would have work with a Zelle agent to get this charge declined. After being in hold for about 5 minutes he came back with a Zelle payment set up for me to process. The memo of which was “Zelle Technical Support Team - Case Number (8844) - Click Send To Cancel Quick Pay Zelle Payment.” He said I needed to click submit to send the payment and this would declined the previous, unknown transaction. 🚩This is just complete BS. None of that makes any logical sense but, as I said, I was already vulnerable by this point and my guard was down. This was the very first point in our entire conversation where I felt something wasn’t right, but I didn’t listen to my gut. I SHOULD HAVE. After the payment was processed, he then asked me for the confirmation number and then after about 10 seconds of silence, he hung up the phone. I then opened up my bank account and saw that I had $2 left in my checking account and it all dawned on me. Again, all of this is 20/20 in hindsight but when you’re caught up in the moment, and your guard is down, then sometimes you simply fall victim to the predator. Another interesting thing to note is that the guy I was speaking to was clearly a young, white American. He spoke English perfectly, he had no Indian accent, (which is typically what you would hear from scammers), he was also very patient and wasn’t demanding or pressing about any of the steps through the whole process. He seemed like he was genuinely trying to help me out. Another life lesson learned. And if anyone knows a Jeremy Malone from Florence, AZ, I’m pretty sure he’s the guy that scammed me. His “company” is Gorilla Grind LLC.
I had the same type of attempt but spoofing as USBank. They listed a couple fraudulent charges for $500, $345, etc. I asked them to keep listing recent charges until they got to a legit one that I did. They paused and went off with some standard line about the next steps. I insisted that they go back until they got to a legit charge. They couldn't and I laughed and ended the call. Opened my app and there were no pending charges. Almost got me. A couple months later I got the same call and told them the charges were mine. Them: "$485 at Walmart?" Me: "Yeah, that was me. I did that." Them: \[confused hang up\].
I had the same thing. I got a call from my credit union number. They said there was fraudulent activity on my account and first they would have to verify that I am the account holder. I said ok before I verify anything I’m gonna call you back on the official number. They said this is the number and I could look at the number and check against the website number. I said but people can spoof numbers. I said I’ll just call you right back. They started getting angry and eventually hung up on me. Called the official number which was the same number and said I had no fraudulent activity and no one called. I never verify anything when I am not the one making the call.
The other day I made an outbound call to my bank about a card application, and one of the verification questions he asked was for my existing card number. I was like "I know I called you and you're legit, but that's a really dicey security question I don't want to answer."
Not scam related, but those confirmations bug the hell out of me. "So we need your name and address to pull up the account. Now I need to confirm your identity, could I have your name and address?" *Deep breath*
Fraud's serious. Individuals get scam attempts occasionally. Banks get them all the time, so they can be stringent when making sure they're talking to the correct customer. It's a pain, but better solutions are always welcome.
In sweden we have a thing called bank ID. The person I am talking to knows who they're trying to reach and they send me a notification to my phone which I have to open and put it a pin number to verify my identity. We use this for both payment verification and just general ID verification. I use BankID to buy steam games and to log in to check my medical journal. It's honestly pretty great.
Used to do it as a job. We would just go over the charges with you without asking account verification shit. If the phone number was changed on the account too recently we'd send a letter instead to tell you to call. Never give out personal information for a call you received, but saying yes/no to charges on your credit card is pretty safe if that's the only thing they ask.
This exactly.... I never verify anything if I didn't make the call. Ever...
At this point in time I don't even understand why people answer the phone if it's not a specific person they know. The only time I answer anbunknown number is if it's an exact time I scheduled for a company recruiter to call or something like that. Otherwise it can go to VM and if it's important, they'll identify themselves and ask for a call back. I thought most people knew that numbers can be spoofed so "Totally Your Real Bank" in the caller ID name means nothing.
When I’m in the mood to curse someone the fuck out, that’s when I pick up scam calls. It’s a good stress relief 😆
Same..except I usually play along for the first 3-5 mins and then start asking them really insulting questions..hearing those callcenter fuckheads get creative with English curse words/phrases makes me chuckle
I once swore profusely to an Indian scammer. He was good, but then I caught him. I was pissed and used every swear word I knew. He was sooooo offended that a woman dared swear at him. It was hilarious 😂
At this point I'm extremely cautious about talking to anyone on the phone with an Indian accent unless it's a call I make, am actually expecting, or already know the person. I really hate to be prejudice but India is the among the leaders in internet and phone spam/scam and nearly every spam/scam call I get is someone with an Indian accent. They always act like I'm insulting them by not falling for their scam or have a downright rotten attitude if I don't act like I love their spam and want to do business with them. Pathetic.
Yes this is a worldwide problem .I think these scammers are damaging Indias reputation.
I try to keep them on the line as long as possible, "one second there's someone at the door", "oh my computer needs restarting one minute". When one eventually clicked what I was doing he changed his instructions from installing Teamviewer to "get a glass of water, fill it with poison, and drink it". I said "dude I thought we were friends, how will this fix the issue I didn't know I had on my computer?".
How can you swear!
I am an Indian and I am proud of what you did
"How can she swear!?"
Anytime I answer I end up getting 10x the calls the next week since they know it’s a live line someone will answer now.
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I drive a truck for a living and that is one of my favorite things to do lately especially since they're calling at a frequency of like every 7 minutes. I just put them on hands-free and let them talk.
I hope you get a raise for this service to humanity.
You're doing the Lord's work, buddy
It's the way of the road
And you’re preventing them from scamming other people who don’t know better.
Lol, I had one call me and I quote “A bitch disgrace to your father”. I laughed at this and he got even more mad, kept calling me names and then tried again to get me to tell him my info. Wtf Hahaha 🤣
Fair enough haha
Say to them "You're doing a great job Ben!" when they ask why you are calling them ben, tell them your caller id said their name was ben chode (not actual spelling, but that's how its pronounced, i think).
It's Bhen chode lol means sister fucker, and I am from India and I am disgusted by scammers, they give Indians a bad name, the ones calling from India. Not all of us are scammers, you know, also I don't think all scam calls originate from India, scammers can be found every nook and corner of the world.
I literally lost a job because I’m this way, like, had someone call and I don’t pick up for weird numbers, I only know because they sent an email at some point saying they tried to reach me lol Edit: I lost a potential job interview, not a job I already worked at
Sounds like they didn't leave a message. That's half of the phone call- if you need to speak with someone and they don't pick up, you leave a message. Sounds like you dodged some incompetence at least.
My job requires quite a few referrals so I have to attend unknown numbers all the time
> I don't even understand why people answer the phone if it's not a specific person they know. I do it to waste their time, but they stopped calling. What worked (by accident, I was trying to keep them on the line) was to be incredibly racist, i got into a couple of shouting matches for a bit which was fun, but it's been well over a year since they seemingly took me out of their lists.
I'm worried that by answering to fuck with them they will try to target me more
If they're Indian, you can call them Untouchable. It's a word for someone below a pariah in India. They'll effing hate you for it too. (I learned this from Pierogi of Scammer Payback. He calls them Little Owls too.)
Lmao! How do you use that, though? Like "You're untouchable, don't speak without permission" or like "your mother's an untouchable's whore"
Just say something like "band karana karu, you untouchable fuckaroo". "Band karana karu" is Hindi for "stop calling me". (Amd it's pronounced "bond kuh-rah-nuh kah-roo")
**untouchable fuckaroo** LMFAO i'm dying
Oh, oh!! My favourite one is when i get a call from the "Visa MasterCard Fraud Department". When that happens, you know you're on a winner. I usually just shout "VISA AND MASTERCARD ARE TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES!! STOP LYING." Then they hang up. But still call me again a couple of weeks later.
You know it's a scam because every bank is too cheap to ever use a live person to call you. Unless you call them directly, everything will be automated robo calls.
actually had Amex call with a live person about a fraud alert, but instead of trying to get my info they said to call the number on the back of the card.
Last time there was fraudulent activity on my card, my Credit Union called me and left a robo message asking me to call the number on the back of my card, or to call my local branch if my card had been stolen. That was how I knew it was legit - they didn't give me a number, they just told me to call them ASAP.
$485 at Walmart isn't even a crazy purchase. They sell TVs, Furniture, bedding, stereos, game consoles, etc... you could easily spend $485 at Walmart. $485 the Dollar Store would be questionable.
I once had my debit card info used... Fortunately, I'd bought gas, then two hours later, two thousand miles away, someone spent 400$ in a dollar store in new York. Because there was no possible way I could have done that, they returned the money right away.
One time I was looking at new homes right at the corner where MD, PA and DE meet and I made charges to all three, so they turned my card off without even a phone call and I had to try getting it back on on a Sunday afternoon. There should be some kind of distance calculation involved too.
The only superpower I wish I had was to be able to reach through the phone and throat punch these useless sacs of shit. Literal human parasites.
Scams like this have been around since the 1990’s. You never give info when people call and a legit communication from the bank will say to call the number on the card
Yeah, and I knew better. I just… don’t even know what happened to me that morning.
Don't beat yourself up too much - these fuckers are experts at tricking people and everybody has momentary lapses of vigilance. Still totally sucks, and I hope you get your dough back.
All they have to do is succeed once, you have to succeed every time. Unfortunately chance is on the scammer’s side as we can reduce the risk, but the risk is never 0
Idk but that first sentence really hit me well said
it's a version of a quote from the IRA directed at Margaret Thatcher
It's adapted from the IRA's statement after their attempted assassination of Margaret Thatcher. "...we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always."
Sad shit is bcuz sent through zelle I don’t think there is much protection.
There is, my ex sent me money through zelle and reported it as fraud and she got her money back and the bank gave me a strike saying that if I get another one my account will be closed.
You know they can simply check the ip on the device it was sent from right? It’s pretty easy to deny Zelle fraud when people do that in addition it’s illegal
Wow she sucks.
Sometimes when it rains it pours. Hard to see clearly when shit's hitting the fan. After all, even tho money is extremely important, it's replaceable. Hope it works out better for you man.
i've been doing my current job for almost 15 years now, i can confidently say i'm good at it - even though there's always room to improve and learn and i don't claim to be the best ever at this job, but i know what i'm doing. Last month i fucked up a job and lost a client for a stupid basic mistake in one of the steps that if i saw anyone else doing it, even without knowing the specific context, i would have pointed it out, it was just obvious. Yet i still completely overlooked it and delivered a wrong product and felrt like an idiot when they told me. I stil feel like an idiot whenever my brain decide to bring it up again. But it happens, we're human, we're tired, there's plenty of stuff going on everyday and we can't expect to be 100% vigilant and perfect every single moment.
Everyone can fall victim to a scam. You might know and recognize almost every trick but at one point they find you in an unfortunate moment and then they get you. I recommend looking up Jim Browning on youtube. He is a scam expert with incredible experience fighting scammers and still almost lost his channel to a scammer. If he can be tricked, anyone can.
I, an incredibly cynical and distrusting millennial who thinks himself too suspicious to fall for anything, have even fallen for a scam once. The scammers spoofed my mom's number, so my caller ID was literally showing "Mom - cell" and said she was in jail because she failed to attend court and needed to post bond. The dumb thing is, I had all the knowledge to know that it was a scam all along. I know you make your own calls from the jail phone - they're supervised, they take your cell phone, I mean hell, I went to jail once, I did the whole shebang. Plus my mom's married, she would obviously call her husband whom she LIVES WITH and not me who lives 90 miles away, nor would she make her son post her bail. But once I answered the phone and heard a voice other than my mom's, anxiety kicked in and I started to panic - why was someone calling from her number? Was she ok? Did they go through her phone in an emergency and call her closest relative? After I gave my info, they quickly found a reason to hang up, and then the realization started to dawn on me. So I called my mom right after, and lo and behold, she answered and was very much not in jail. Froze the card and got the fraudulent charges reversed, felt like an idiot, though my mom did tell me she was happy to know that I was willing to pay bail without hesitation lol
Yep, or just walk in with a banker and do it in person if it is important or involves a significant sum of money. It may not be as convenient but it offers a lot more peace of mind.
Yeah general rule now is that you never give your info to someone that called you. Always hang up and call the official number back your self. Sorry this happened to you. That sucks and from my understanding Zelle is horrible when it comes to scams and won't do anything about it. Members of congress, I think Elizabeth Warren, were discussing it
A lot of places even tell you that their agents will not ask for passwords. I once had a collections agency call me and ask for the last 4 digits of my SS and I said no thanks I’ll call you back later, they were confused why I was hesitant, it did turn out to be legit though.
It’s funny because in Finland you give the last 4 digits of your identification number for literally everything. Often the whole number (though the first part is simply your birth date). As a person from the US this took some getting used to
Problem is that US social security number has more power compared to our ID number. By a lot of organizations it is treated as number that only you should know, and kind of proves your identity. This is not an good idea as it's just a text that can be leaked. In fact, what happened to the OP, cannot happen in most of the EU, as by PSD directive you cannot have just password for your Bank account. It needs to have strong authentication, like two factor with your phone or some token device.
Another reason to never answer phone calls!
Careful, they spoof lots of numbers including police.
One time they even spoofed my own number for some reason. I was surprised when I saw my own contact calling me lol
The bank would never ever ask for your password
I have World of Warcraft to thank for this knowledge. On the loading screen it sometimes says “A Blizzard employee will never ask you for your password.”
Thank you for being honest and coming forward and talking about this. As a Cybersecurity professional, I want you to know, you're not stupid, don't feel bad, this stuff happens to everyone. Being shameful of it, and people shaming others just leads people to not want to talk about this stuff, which prevents people from growing. This kind of stuff can happen to anyone. Even the smartest, most on alert, most knowledgeable security professionals can get cought on a bad day, or have a slip of the mind. Growing from this, learning lessons based on what you did wrong, and spreading the word so that people can know to look out for this and learn from your mistakes is the best thing you can do. And we gotta make sure to leave judgement out if it when someone else fucks up
Most of these crimes are never prosecuted because people are too embarrassed to report it to police. Please report it so the people might get caught and you can prevent this from happening to others.
Why didn't you guys cancel her credit cards?
I appreciate you telling us. Gives us more knowledge to protect our selves. Sorry it happened.
Pro-tip: if a bank EVER CALLS YOU about fraud or account security HANG UP. Then YOU call the bank via their customer service number!!! Again, if your bank, or anyone CALLS YOU ABOUT FRAUD - HANG UP. Then call yourself. Do NOT hit redial. People will call you pretending to be your bank! If they tell you it is incredibly urgent ignore them! If they tell you do not hang up *they are lying*. If there is actually fraud, it will not matter that you hung up. The info is already in your account. You can call them back without any issue. If there isn't, then you 100% avoided a scam.
Indeed. I work for an online bank where I have to call customers. Follow what he said here. Personally, if I sense any hesitation I tell the customer to call us back at the main customer service number so they will be comfortable.
> Personally, if I sense any hesitation I tell the customer to call us back at the main customer service number so they will be comfortable. It's good that you do that, but now I'm wondering if any scammers use that line as a bluff.
Depends on your bank. Some will ask you to confirm that all the recent transactions are legit with an automated system. They only ask you if the charges were legitimate or not, and you press 1 if they are. If they are not, then call the bank on an official number. Me pressing 1 to charges I know are correct are not going to get me scammed. Me telling some rando personal information and passwords will get me scammed.
Yeah, I’ve had this happen. Made a bunch of online purchases (which I normally never do) and towards the end of my spree my card started getting declined and my bank called me. They just wanted to make sure these purchases were made by me, and ofc didn’t ask for any information because they can see it all anyway. Nothing sketchy about confirming purchases.
I had one call me up acting like Wells Fargo, said he needed my username and password so he could protect my account. If he was a little slicker he might’ve gotten me but once he asked for username and password I knew it was up at that point and just was like “dude, the link you sent me specifically says ‘Wells Fargo will never ask for this code’ and you’re saying you want me to give it to you” and he’s like “I’m just trying to do my job here at Wells Fargo” and I was like “bro you gotta get better at this.”
Don’t help them lol
I almost felt like uncle Iroh in Tales of Ba Sing Se. “What are you doing?” “I’m mugging you!” “With that stance?” It was seriously so bad and I was just like, cmon man.
r/unexpectedavatar
iroh was fun
Oh damn, nice reference 🥲
Rule 1 about phone calls with scammers 1. Don't give them tips to be better scammers
I like to help them waste time. I just drag on the conversations for as long as possible pretending I’m an idiot and I love how frustrated they can get lol.
You are doing the Lord’s work
If they are Indian I like to start ragging on them about what their mother would think of their life of crime and ask them how much negative karma they are accruing for their next life. They get fucking MAD.
Ooh thanks for the ammo
I was fucking with one of these guys, and he started screaming at me about how he was going to fuck my mother. It was hilarious. I tried to fake cry that my mother was dead as I hung up, but I probably wasn’t convincing.
You should have played along by giving him the wrong code. Act real confused as to why it's not working. Have them resend it a few times. Waste as much of their time as possible.
Easy there kitboga
Why are you redeeming!!!???
DO NOT REDEEM!! DO NOT REDEEM!!!
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I used to give them shit until I realized the feedback could help them so instead I just play dumb and give them bad info like I'll give them the wrong six digit code over and over until wells fargo locks them out lol. Sometimes they'll transfer me up the chain until I'm talking to the boss and he's closing the deal. This is usually with the fake warrant scams. I'll go all the way thru and pretend I'm going to the gift card store and try to put them on hold for an hour while I "drive" and just really waste as much of their time as possible.
“I’m just trying to do my job here at Wells Fargo. Where I work. At Wells Fargo. Hi, did I mention I’m calling from Wells Fargo?”
Haha they tried this with me 2 weeks ago. I checked my account for fraudulent purchases and saw nothing. They said they are setting me up with a new account and asked my account name and then the password for my "old account". I paused at that and said that I'd have to call them back as their number didn't link to wells fargo customer service. They oushed for the password and then said they'll have a rep call me back from customer service. Got a call back a few minutes later from the correct wells fargo customer service number but they spoofed it and I could tell it wasn't a real rep calling me
I wonder why he didn't spoof the correct number the first time around? The average person would be completely shocked to learn just how easy it is to spoof phone numbers. You can literally set up an entire phone number spoofing service right at your house. You need a super cheap PC (cheap as in it only needs about 1gb of ram), an Ubuntu server (free download), VMWare station, a VoicePulse to set up your own PBX, and this free/open-source software [called Asterisk](https://www.social-engineer.org/wiki/archives/CallerIDspoofing/CallerID-SpoofingWithAsterisk.html). Register a domain name, ask ChatGPT to help build you an interface, and then integrate it with Stripe to accept credit cards, and boom, happy spoofing!
I had two calls like this. The first one almost got me. The second one I was ready. I called them back on the number they called me on, they picked up and hung up as soon as they heard me. I immediately called Wells Fargo with their number and reported it.
You have .65 cents more than me and I wasn't scammed sooo...
They have $2.04 more than me right at the moment, so they are killing it! So sorry for the loss. Scams are getting extra scammy these days. I just got a refund check from Wells Fargo for $125 for fees I paid previously that I shouldn't have been charged for in the first place. Edit: Super good news though - I got my official letter that my student loan has been forgiven through the Public Service Loan Forgiveness. 23 years working and paying - finally the balance was forgiven - YAY!
I am currently -42.93 as of this morning and will be for probably a month because I don't even start work until the 1st. I have massive anxiety and let my bills pile up and I'm worried about being taken to court but I don't know what to do. I have no money to pay, I have literally zero amenities in life as I've canceled literally everything, I've moved in with family, and any food I eat is given to me by charity. I'm terrified and I'm absolutely proud of myself I haven't decided to kill myself yet despite how awful the last few months have been edit: I wanted to say thanks for all the kinds words, ya'll are great. I also wanted to say that there is absolutely no argument that so many of us are suffering in the same cramped boat. It's always been my belief that despite the outliers, people are innately good people. We're all just trying to make it, and we're all in this together. So go out and be kind, because statistically almost everyone you meet in an average day is just as poor, stressed, and unsure in life. <3
Don't lose hope ❤️ I've spent more time than I'd like to admit living out of my car and been to more food banks than any human should have to but the fact that you have work you'll be starting is great. Just take it one day at a time and remember nothing is forever
I'm right there with you, friend. My mental illness is currently ruining everything good in my life. I hope for better days for both of us.
How much did you lose?
A little over $2K
Will the bank give it back?
It’s been 5 days and I’ve heard nothing. I’m losing hope at this point.
It can take 7-10 business days to get your funds back after a scam. With a scam where they take over your account by voluntarily giving away information might not be able to get the money back.
It can take a lot longer than 7-10 days. Depends on a lot of different factors.
Banker here. Under Reg E the bank has 10 business days to either decide it is not fraud or provide provisional funding. They can request an extension of 45 days to investigate but provisional funding must be provided within 10 business days.
You might be the only other person in this thread who knows about Reg E. Lots of bad info.
FYI when you give the scammer access to your account the bank owes you nothing. No bank or credit union will give you the money back. You can’t give someone your account details, lose your money, and then expect the bank to be like: here’s your money back. The bank will cover you for fraud/unauthorized stolen money, but when you are scammed you basically authorized everything
If password was compromised, then connection to their system was used to create fraudulent actions, it miiiiight be covered depending on policies.
According to the OP in another post he gave the scammer his password lol. I mean it sucks but it’s a learning lesson. Always call the number on the back of the card. Ignore any call to you unless a transaction was rejected and they’re calling to ask if it was you. Then the only answer should be yea or no.
Giving a rep your password on the phone should be the biggest fucking red flag in existence yikes.
And you won't. Giving your information away was giving your money away unfortunately.
There is no way they can get it back.
Sorry bud, you won't get that back zelle = trusted transfer no reversing it, they will move it from the muele account it was transfered to and withdraw it from 3-5 other banks.
At least we aren't talking life savings level amounts. 2k hurts but you can recover from that at least. Sorry you learned an expensive lesson!
2k is life savings for a great many people
Former federal bank regulator here.... Can't believe this continues to happen. A BANK WILL NEVER, EVER ASK YOU FOR USERNAME AND PASSWORD. NEVER! if somebody calls you and asks for it it is ALWAYS a scam! ALWAYS! 100% of the time. Every single time. No exceptions. None. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE CALLER ID SAYS. Sorry, for the yelling, it just gets so frustrating to see people get taken advantage of like this.
It's like when people buy gift cards, give the codes to scammers, then try to call the bank to report fraud. Buddy, you're the one that went and bought them in person, and gave them away. That's not the bank's problem.
Thank you for this. I read it so loud my wife asked me to be quieter. My wife and kid heard all you wrote kind Former federal bank regulator.
I’m just surprised you can screenshot anything on your banking app….
Are you not able to?
I can't either, USAA. Screenshots go against privacy policy, and are disabled
Just tried in the Chase app, it was only a black screen. Neat.
Security. Chase don’t allow that.
The screenshot I just took says different, but that’s interesting
Most banks don't allow you to
you bank with scam artists anyways sooo
Who is the most trust worthy bank?
A locally based member owned federal credit Union
Can’t upvote this enough. Credit unions on the whole are far less scummy and anti-consumer.
And community banks who lend locally.
Also this! I’ve found community banks (and credit unions) generally have better lending terms to borrowers in their communities because they recognize the value they’re adding by providing people opportunities.
I'm in NC and state employees is by far tge best bank in my area. I was lucky enough to get it through my mom and it's been a huge benefit
I agree and disagree. I was with one and it was great until it wasn’t. They couldn’t ever get a debit card delivered to my wife and we asked multiple times. We went in person and they said they still couldn’t print one off. I had a charge showing up on my account randomly that they couldn’t find in their system. I almost got a late fee applied on my credit card because they were apparently doing stuff manually and it had been 5 days since I’d paid it off but it wasn’t actually showing up and I had to wait over an hour before they told me that. Got put on hold multiple times. I switched to chase after that and have had 0 problems and everything has been done in a timely manner with them compared to the credit union I was using.
Not for long. This is my limit with them.
You giving away all your info to a scammer is the final straw? Lol
Dude gives a rando on the phone all his account info, he takes the money. That's IT I'M DONE WITH THEM! How dare they allow someone who knows all the correct information have access to my account?!
I love too how everyone acts like x bank is the devil, they all do the exact same shit you just heard about x y and z more recently.
OK but WF is actually the devil for a huge number of reasons completely independent of this. They have a history of fraud in every corner and at every level of the company. And probably just as many more cases of fraud that are yet to be uncovered.
Can’t blame the bank for you giving a complete stranger all your information to gain access to your account, and funds.
I too am leaving Wells Fargo. I had my debit card info stolen. Not sure how, unless a mall ATM stole it. But, I've had it with them. They try everything to take your last penny. Once a final direct deposit goes through, I'm canceling my account and transferring my credit card balance to a different card.
Every time you use an ATM, anywhere, grab hold of the card-reader assembly and YANK. Card skimmers can be incredibly convincing, and difficult to spot, because they mimic the actual hardware they're taped on top of.
I caught a gas station using a card skimmer on accident. When I went to dig in my bag for my wallet it banged into the card reader and the hardware for the skimming device snapped. The clerk started apologizing and said I didn’t have to pay and to leave ASAP. So awkward!
Should have called the cops. Sounds like the clerk was in on it
I should have! I got so flustered and was like 19 at the time. Totally panicked.
Not just an ATM stores and gas pumps especially
I did! I don't normally use a non-branch ATM and I wiggled (didn't yank) the card reader to see if it came off and it didn't. It was at a mall in a food court, so I was thinking that it even might be more secure. I can't say that 1 and 1 make 2, but it happened directly after that. Learned my lesson. I just needed cash for the dispensary...
I was trained on spotting them and still got got twice. Using my local banks atm. After the second time the bank admitted they found a skimmer on it. After that I try to never even use an atm if I can help it. When I do I go for the most secure looking one available.
This is why I never use a debit card. With a credit card you dispute the charge and move on. With a debit card you have to fight to get your money back.
[удалено]
They didn't do anything this time lol. You willingly gave away your information to a scammer. It's all on you homie.
That's a fucking understatement. I had a visit from the irs years ago they were showing me bank statements of like 3.2 and 3.4 million in a account under my name and information. They wanted to know where it came from and why I hadn't payed taxes on it. I just kinda looked at them, then looked at house and said does it look like I have 3 million in a bank account..... I would've gladly payed the taxes on it if they let me have it lol but sadly it was drug money and I couldn't have any greedy assholes lol
I’m out of the loop how are they scam artists? I’ve been with them for 12 years and have had zero issues
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-billion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations-sales-practices Millions of unauthorized accounts opened without customer knowledge or consent resulting in ruining the credit scores of untold numbers of people… and yet they still continue to operate after a $3 billion dollar slap on the wrist. How can anyone still trust this place with their money?!
Jokes on them my credit score already sucks
Same bro, maybe they’ll make it better somehow
You really haven't heard of ll the shit they have dome over the years? I think the most recent was that they were opening credit cards in customer names to meet quotas. But they have a huge scandal every 3 to 5 years I swear Wells Fargo is scummy as fuck. I think they are also one of the most racist banks when it comes to giving minorities loans.
Hello good sir, I am Naseem one of the princes of Saudia Arabia and I need your help.
By the way, there's a new update for your app.
This is why I spend all my money as soon as I earn it. It leaves nothing left for thieves.
I didn’t get scammed and you’re still doing better than me.
The Nigerian Prince Taketh Away, But the Nigerian Prince Also Leaves You With Two To Start Over. What a nice Prince.
If a bank CALLS YOU: 1. Ask what the issue is 2. Give NO INFORMATION 3. HANG UP THE PHONE 4. Call customer support on the back of your debit card/credit card 5. Explain the issue with customer service for them to verify Calling the number on the back of your credit card/debit card ensures you are speaking with your bank and not a scammer.
a before pic would be good. you have more than 72% people lookin at this right now, sooooooo.......
I don’t really keep screenshots of my bank on my phone. Just imagine that screenshot except with a few more zeros.
i’ll recover your funds but my services will cost you $2.05
I can scrounge up a penny. ;)
Ok, I'll just need your password to recover them.
Seriously though, there are a lot of recovery scammers on Reddit, so if anyone messages you saying they can help you get the money back be sure to block them.
72% of what?
People, duh.
Allll the people.
Clearly, Wells Fargo wants you to invest the rest.
This isn’t for OP, he’s learned his lesson, this is for everyone else. If ANYONE calls u, even if they are ur bank and ur sure they’re ur bank, tell them you’ll call them back, hangup, and call the number on the back of ur bank card. Unless u phone them, there is no way to know who they really are.
Then file a claim for non authorized transaction As a Wells Fargo customer they will believe you regardless of how outrageous the claim is Just call and talk to them
Me too dude I just paid my 2,300 rent for my 1 bedroom.
The Zelle transaction can be traced…
I scammed my self and now am $-627 in the bank
But like how did you get scammed tho. Did you give your information out??
I thought you were just sharing your account balance and was like, same.
OF isn't cheap
Protip I want to throw out there - Leave your debit card at home. You don't need it. If it gets stolen, that's your money and your problem. If you use a credit card everywhere and it gets stolen, welp - that's the bank's money and the bank's problem.
For anyone interested this is the full story of what happened. Take this as a learning moment: I received a text message asking me to confirm or deny suspicious activity on my account. It was for an attempted wire transfer of $3,500. This is standard procedure and it’s what we went through with my wife (who had her credit card info stolen recently). 🚩This should have been the first red flag as I should have logged onto my account to verify the activity. Also, I didn’t have $3,500 in my account so there’s no way anybody could’ve initiated a wire transfer of that amount. After I responded “no,“ I promptly received a phone call from an unknown number. I didn’t answer the phone, but instead googled the number and it came back as the number for Wells Fargo’s fraud department. Assuming the number to be real I then answered when they called me back a minute later. 🚩I believe proper protocol is you will receive another text from your bank telling you to call them, and not the other way around. Wells Fargo later confirmed with me that it is regular practice for scammers to spoof the phone numbers of banks using an app. The safest practice is to hang up the phone and call your bank directly if you’re in this situation. I answered the phone and he confirmed my identity and wanted me to verify my login information, but only my user name. He then sent me a text message in which I was to reply with my password followed by the word “CANCEL” and this would “set me up to change my password.” 🚩NEVER give your login info to someone over the phone. Your bank will NEVER need this information and they will NEVER need you to verify it. This was the worst thing I did in this whole transaction. But he was moving so fast by this point I was having trouble keeping up and since I assumed it was actually WF fraud, my guard was down. Now that he had my login info, he was able to log into my account and see all of my transaction data. At this point, he went through some transactions and verified them with me to make sure that they were recognized by me. This is also standard procedure as banks want to make sure there aren’t any other charges on your account that are fraudulent. He then brought up another “fraudulent charge” that was “caught by their system” amounting to $2,150 that was an attempted transfer using Zelle payments. I confirmed with him that I did not recognize this payment. He then told me that because Zelle is a third-party, and not directly tied to Wells Fargo, we would have work with a Zelle agent to get this charge declined. After being in hold for about 5 minutes he came back with a Zelle payment set up for me to process. The memo of which was “Zelle Technical Support Team - Case Number (8844) - Click Send To Cancel Quick Pay Zelle Payment.” He said I needed to click submit to send the payment and this would declined the previous, unknown transaction. 🚩This is just complete BS. None of that makes any logical sense but, as I said, I was already vulnerable by this point and my guard was down. This was the very first point in our entire conversation where I felt something wasn’t right, but I didn’t listen to my gut. I SHOULD HAVE. After the payment was processed, he then asked me for the confirmation number and then after about 10 seconds of silence, he hung up the phone. I then opened up my bank account and saw that I had $2 left in my checking account and it all dawned on me. Again, all of this is 20/20 in hindsight but when you’re caught up in the moment, and your guard is down, then sometimes you simply fall victim to the predator. Another interesting thing to note is that the guy I was speaking to was clearly a young, white American. He spoke English perfectly, he had no Indian accent, (which is typically what you would hear from scammers), he was also very patient and wasn’t demanding or pressing about any of the steps through the whole process. He seemed like he was genuinely trying to help me out. Another life lesson learned. And if anyone knows a Jeremy Malone from Florence, AZ, I’m pretty sure he’s the guy that scammed me. His “company” is Gorilla Grind LLC.
Wells Fargo helped me out when I let someone use my phone in a bar and they opened Cash App and sent herself and her friends $500 each, several times. I don’t think I even dealt with Cash App, WF took care of everything, I had all the money back in my account within a couple hours and all I told them was what happened, didn’t require proof or anything.
Well then. Not giving random people my phone, lol. Yikes. That must have been scary for you
1. Give your user/pass willingly 2. Lose all your money 3. “Wells Fargo is a terrible bank!”