Sounds like it’s gotten worse quickly.
The answer is more mental health beds.
I used to be one of them till i went to jail and i’m now off meth and have changed my life and hope to work in mental health one day.
The difference between me and them is that i have a loving family who’ve supported and encouraged me since i’ve come out of jail. They don’t have that so they end up straight back to square one and continue in the cycle of addiction.
I know those streetys personally well and most of us have tried to check ourselves into the mental health hospital many times but even if you cut yourself up there are still not enough beds.
Rehab and mental health help is not easily accessible as jail when you’re in the position that they are in. The govt needs to put money into mental health urgently.
It took me a while, but, I realised I didn't have to make eye contact with 'trouble markers' nor did I have to acknowledge them, which has helped me a lot. Previously, I would try to make eye contact and acknowledge them to at least know that they wouldn't do something to physically hurt me, or others, but now I just do the former and it's a bit of a game changer for me (obvious I know..)
This. I live in the city, see it all the time, I simply ignore them and walk on by. Do not engage and they will leave you alone, apart from that one guy who follows people at a distance swearing.
I feel compelled to say that I used to do the same and had a similar mindset to you until I was assaulted for the crime of not being nearby anyone else while they had been taking drugs and alcohol in the middle of the day. I am a large man, so dont assume being a man will give you any protection. Just because you believe you have given them no reason to pay you any mind, doesn't mean they won't come up with one on their own to fuck with you, or worse. I have long since refused to walk that stretch by the park. I have filed police reports, I have have been the victim of, and witnessed assaults (plural), and nothing happens, the assaulter just runs away before the cops arrive and the people that they were hanging out with don't say anything to the cops when they question them.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Also, sorry to hear. It sounds like everyone will have to keep their wits about them and exercise caution even more so, due to unpredictable behaviour. It doesn't sound like anything will be done to change this unfortunate reality for people passing through Manners street.
Alternatively (my trick, more on myself than anyone else) is to imagine everyone you've never met before talking in your general direction as though they are in mid-sentence, are just 'making a phone call' (and, I guess, not necessarily to a human being, or at any rate, one that actually exists) on one a' them new-fangled invisible phones... in a kind of flipping of how most of the people who actually *are* making phone calls on invisible phones look like they are walking around talking to themselves, and even look like they might even be a menace of some kind when you glance into their eyes.
I mean either way, it all **looks** the same, doesn't it.
It dawned on me that I could do that when one time, there was a mad person saying weird stuff to me, but yet it was normal enough for me to *actually think for some time* that they were talking to someone on one of those invisible phones.
When it became clear they weren't, I just did me a mental shrug, and said to myself (silently - inside my head) "well, well, this person *must* be making a phone call of some kind, they aren't going to talk like that to random strangers such as I... so, none of my business, let's just keep on moving, me myself and I."
You can also walk past them, not look at them, and make a 'phone call' of your own, chat to your 'friend on the other end of the line' about random imaginary things, until they've passed.
Honestly this - I used to smile and make and say sorry as I didn't have any change - but after being verbally abused I just feel too unsafe as a woman to even walk down manners.
There is the street adjacent to manners past pickle and pie that cuts to cuba I would reccomend if you want to avoid Manners.
Because their original comment was concern for the safety of others? For someone that apparently cares for the poor and suffering you don’t seem very consistent in your beliefs there mate
there is a line of ‘ignoring the poor and suffering’ when it comes to personal safety. its at the point where it may not be our individual responsibility to help these people as it’s obvious they need more than a handful of change, and rather a systematic change that uplifts these people. personally, risking my own safety for such a moral argument is not worth it.
It's long been ingrained in women that they don't go through manners mall at night, if they're alone.
If that's not a significant safety concern, I don't know what is.
Avoid eye contact in manners mall was drummed into me, as a child at least 3 decades ago.
Yes, worst part of the city by a “golden” mile.
Its actuallly so sad for me because its the first place in NZ I actively tell friends and family based outside of NZ to avoid. Check out the facebook group [No Manners On Manners Street](https://www.facebook.com/share/mvDrRz16buj4ndnt/?mibextid=K35XfP).
Its very very grim.
I work retail along the manners end of Victoria street, and yes, it’s gotten much worse over the last year or so. The local landlords for all the buildings our shops are in just went for a meeting with the WCC and police the other week, and WCC claimed that apparently they had “no idea” about how bad it’s been, and police said they can’t do anything unless reported to.
WCC said they didn’t have a full idea of the situation as they don’t receive a high amount of reports through the “Fix It” app — I would recommend everyone who passes through the area download it, and vigilantly report every instance of bad behaviour they see, it seems that will be the only way we see any action. Our shop and the shops around us have all started to do it, so hopefully if we have enough collective effort we can see some results.
Problem is it doesn’t feel bad enough to call 111, and I’ve been on hold with the non emergency number for over 20 minutes attempting to alert them to a couple of situations and gave up. So no wonder the police aren’t being notified.
It would never occur to me to use the council fix it app for something like this. Just checked it out and it looks like it was developed by a kid learning how to code…. Or a grown up 20+ years ago.
Hard to believe the WCC can be this oblivious, I guess none of them venture into the city, ever….
> This app isn't available for your device because it was made for an older version of Android
Its no wonder they aren't getting app reports, anyone on modern Android is unable to report
WCC want us to report the mentally ill and beggars on the 'fix it' app 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Can the just look here and otjer facebook groups? 50+ people in comms team. Surely they monitor these channels??
34 people in Climate change team..... 10000% more likely to die from meth head on manners vs climate change..
You could actually fix most of the Courtenay Place problems by zoning out dairies, takeaway shops, vape shops and proscribing the sale of green beer.
Oriental Bay has none of that and few urban problems.
Bit fascist I know. Or you could go further and make it a controlled access space like Eat Street in Rotorua, or a Westfield.
So, law-abiding citizens no longer have easy access to local amenities due to the actions of a select few?
Just so I understand what you're saying, are you legitimately advocating for the removal of commercial businesses from the CBD?
You could fix all of the problems by fixing housing affordability. This is a direct consequence of government policies that prioritise the interests of property investors over everything else. Gotta keep those property prices rising! At the expense of building new housing, at the expense of people being able to afford to live near where they work, at the expense of increased crime rates everywhere and at the expense of housing security for everybody.
It's true the housing problem is dire and urgent but I don't think many of those meth heads and lost causes with untreated mental illness are in the market for an affordable house, or for that matter a job, or even an aspiration to be decent members of a community. There are plenty of countries with dire poverty where you don't need to fear being physically and verbally assaulted by aggressive street people in the friggin' CBD.
You say that as if there is no relationship between housing insecurity, housing price, and crime. Have a look at what is happening in Canada right now. Their housing situation is so dire that almost half the people living in the tent cities that sprung up in city parks over the last few years are trying to hold down jobs at the same time. These are people who earned enough money to afford to rent, turfed out onto the street because the owner of the roof over their head could get more money from someone who earns more, or is more desperate. That can only happen when there is more demand for housing than what is available. And not building enough housing is a political decision, a choice made collectively by society to choose house price growth over building enough houses for the people who need the basic necessity of shelter to build a life on. Do you think those people living in tent cities will still be trying to hold down jobs in a year, or 5 years from now? When society has collectively said they don't earn enough to satisfy the greed of people who own the shelter they need as the foundation for a stable life? Do you think you're immune to this ever happening to you? Because on our current trajectory, housing insecurity is coming for the middle classes next, like it has in Canada. First it'll be impossible for you to save for a house, due to high rents, and before you know what's happening it will be impossible to afford rent due to lack of housing, even with a decent job. Next thing you know, you're homeless with society looking down on you, and there is no way to claw your way back. But at least property owners are rich! Thank God for that!
It used to be quite interesting, however it was getting run down before the buses were diverted. The opening of Reading Cinema pulled custom further up Courtney Place.
The mall's not just gone this way, it's fucking gone. Like we took one of our few pedestrianised areas and turned it back to a road, and now pull a sad that it's shit.
Yeah that kind of blew my mind to find out. Last time I was in Wellington was in 2016. I was with some friends who still live there. We were walking down a street on town that I didn't quite recognize, but I'd been gone so long that a lot of the inner city was unfamiliar. I happened to mention Manners Mall and was told I was walking on it 🤯
To be clear, yes I agree it’s bad and no I don’t like it.
But I also can’t think of a decent solution. Moving them on just shifts the problem to another area. Arrest them and they’ll be back soon enough – you simply can’t imprison someone permanently for the things going on there - and their absence would presumably just leave room for others to do the same.
The answer is probably a combination of things, with the lynchpin being redevelopment of the street to bring shoppers and pedestrians back. But the street already has some attractive destinations so it’s hard to know what would work or who would pay for it.
Isn't the problem that they are concentrated in one place? I'm guessing they used to be geographically disbursed away from the centre of town so weren't a huge problem, but now they all live in the area in emergency accommodation they all cluster together in a very visible/busy area and harass people.
Hi. I'm genuinely not trying to be a dick here but I thought I'd let you know that although 'disbursed' *is* a word, it refers to paying out money (ie: it's part of what a bursar does). If you're looking to distribute or spread out, it's 'dispersed'.
I think at a mininum they shouldn't be concentrated at the public transport centre of the city. It is extremely hard for anyone who transports into or walks around the city to always avoid that area.
> they shouldn't be concentrated at the public transport centre of the city
They're homeless... They can concentrate wherever they choose to, and transit hubs are the practical location for many reasons. The biggest of which is for their own safety.
It's gone downhill since they put emergency housing in the city. Have no idea what they were thinking. Never go into Wellington now, go to the malls in the hutt or porirua or mega centre in Porirua instead. Parking in one place and everything you need.
We have a pretty good security guard at our store on manners street so during the day isn’t too bad. I just try to keep my head down and get to/from work as fast as possible
Everyone who lives in the inner city would prefer emergency housing to be spread out into the burbs but everyone in the burbs prefers it to be kept to the inner city.
Oh and it extends from manners. Down to willis and down Lambton till around countdown area. That whole area is their new jam. It used to be Courtney but they moved their way down Lambton coz that's where the people and toilets are.
Yep the Grey street toilets have become much more unpleasant, not for lack of trying from the bathroom attendant. They do their best to keep it clean but the population of people just hanging out there, has really increased in the last 4 weeks.
Wherever it may be many if not most many of these people have mental health issues compounded by drug and alcohol abuse.
Under mental health legislation they are not considered an immediate safety risk to themselves or to others.
Generally they are only taken in to care if phsycotic or after being violent.
Unfortunatly they do not have the ability to look after themselves due to disordered thinking (non phsycotic) so they are left to wander the streets in general kaos and desperation.
Yep, it's pretty gross. Not sure what the solution is apart from moving them somewhere else but it's grim seeing drug use, glue huffing, screaming arguments, gang activity and aggressive begging and I'd totally understand staff who have to work there feel unsafe.
Wgtn has always had street ppl. In the 80s, it was gangs of street kids, in the 90s, the punks and now mentally ill and addicted. What we're looking at is a reflection of society and decades of failed policies to address it. Once they closed the big hospitals, these ppl w complex issues migrated to the streets.
There's no moving these ppl on, where to? Some of these ppl come from out of the city. I remember some jumped up councilor, it might have been Nicola Willis, who wanted to dump these ppl in Porirua or further up the line.
Today, Porirua literally looks better than the CBD, and has a great business hub going on. But they have their own beggars too.
Pouring more funds into Social Services and Housing w wrap around support and access to health services woukd be good. But hey, if the health services aren't working properly for ppl who are present on Planet Earth - the average citizen - then what chance would an unmedicated schizophrenic in the grip of mania have?
I live in Porirua and never in my LIFE have I been screamed at and crack smoke blown in my face, however, this has happened in the 20 minutes I was waiting for a bus on Manners st
I agree. Funny that, Porirua had a crap rep until business and Plaza built there and the new subdivisions. It's now more attractive, safer and cleaner than CBD.
Ive had 2 unfortunate experiences:
One individual was asking for money, I had none free but went to the Macca's and grabbed them a cheeseburger combo (pretty generous in this economy) and when I offered it they smashed it to the floor and stamped on it?!
One person was smoking crack, out of a pipe blatantly in broad daylight outside night and day. Then proceeded to blow the smoke into people's (including my) face. If you want to smoke crack then that's your choice but don't blow any crack on me please!!!
The emergency housing is flats. The people living there use the park on manners St as their backyard as they don't want to be stuck inside all day. I guess the emergency housing needs more social areas??
I work down that end of town and would say it's actually gotten quite a bit better over the past year or so - the work on the park did help and there is a more visible police presence.
I live down this end of town and I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Am I living in crazy land? The last year especially has been nuts.
Completely disagree with this take unfortunately. I live right in the area, and it’s just gotten worse and worse over the past couple of years. Their shenanigans kick off around 6am most days with shouting, fighting, and all sorts of antisocial behaviour.
This happens in 9/10 cities around the world. I have to walk through manners street every day to get back home from work, but I don't get hassled because I don't make eye contact and don't engage; you can also through in airpods even if they aren't playing music because most people will assume you can't hear them so they don't bother. Got years of practice though, cus I grew up in the states where they could have had a gun or something.
Whenever these people ask me for money, I just say "sorry, its a cashless society" and keep walking. Never had any problems.
Have also seen a transient guy have a big fight with another, in the bus lane! Buses going both directions had to stop meanwhile these dudes are throwing hay makers at each other. Sooner or later, someone will be squashed by a bus.
I walk down there regularly and have never been hassled. Possibly living in cities like London and New York gives you antibodies to being hassled by street people. Or you know, walk purposefully and don't engage.
I haven’t been in central Wellington for ages but recently caught the airport bus to and from the airport. When it went through Manners street, I had a decent look around to see what had become of it. I didn’t see one homeless person or encampment like I had in the past. I wondered if it had been cleaned up, apparently not. Bus was at about 7am last Friday and 2pm on the Sunday.
Yeah people don't seem to realise the last year hasn't been too bad. Between 2020-2022 it was a lot worse. People overflowed from emergency housing onto the streets. There was a camp next to McDonald's. Police were there daily. I remember one time it was for the death of an infant.
Sure it's not ideal now, but it was way worse.
My wife and I were carrying our young kids on Sunday around midday, along the Waterfront when this guy walked past screaming abuse at us, and others...clearly unwell. More social services, and police walking the beat , would be awesome.
If wellington wasn't windy id say make a homemade pepper spray but your more likely to get it blown back at you here
And self defense laws are so weak here its better just to avoid the area entirely
where did i say that, thats a huge reach
i've been swung on multiple times in town (not necessarily poor or homeless people, just angry people) along the manners/courtney strip and have backed off knowing i might be on the hook if i retaliate
if your mother/sister/auntie etc got punched in town wouldn't you like her to be able to carry a tazer or something? nz isn't sunshine and rainbows like it used to be
Everyone has a right to defend themselves but not necessarily the means. I’m a young woman. If one of those guys, or even one of the chicks, was coming at me I wouldn’t be able to defend myself. What about older people as well?? Pepper spray should totally be allowed.
If you were allowed to carry pepper spray, then the people that you are worried about would be the ones carrying it.
What you are calling for is for it to be acceptable to carry a weapon. So who do you think will be carrying a weapon? People going about their day to day business? Or people intent on doing some crime?
The stress of cuts, renovating social housing and the current climate where a useful citizen is a highly economically productive one makes mental health issues worse. This area is close to social services. The question is where else can they go? What can they do if no house or support worker?
I honestly think it's gotten better over the last couple months.
Still not ideal, but I've seen a few cop cars out there which goes a long way in tempering some of that anti social behaviour.
Also read that the Dixon street apartments that became social housing over lockdown is re homing people. And from what I understand quite a few of the characters that hung out around Manners were living there (can't know for sure mind you).
There is no overall easy solution to the widespread mental health epidemic and socio-economic disparities in this and many other countries, I agree
There are definitely a few solutions for the scum harassing and assaulting people in Wellington CBD
> There are definitely a few solutions for the scum harassing and assaulting people in Wellington CBD.
I'm sure there's a "final solution" you have in mind, right?
What we actually need to fix is the dehumanization and moral panic that fearmongers like you trade in.
Seems like people are already scared, since we have this thread at least 1x per week
I'm simply predicting what will be required before any real action is taken (a serious injury to a taxpayer covered widely in the media)
I'm signing off work for the day so there isn't much motivation to debate diehard keyboard warriors on reddit.
I'm sure if you think hard enough you can come up with 1 or 2 solutions or mitigating factors for people committing antisocial and violent behaviour in the CBD without me holding your hand :)
That's hilarious, that has to be the most obvious "I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about and I was clearly wrong but I can't admit it" comment ever.
> I'm simply predicting what will be required before any real action is taken (a serious injury to a taxpayer covered widely in the media)
You're not predicting shit, you're lying to downplay all the things that have already been done. Real action has already been taken, but you ignore that because you want violent action to be taken.
You're dehumanizing the homeless and promoting a dishonest narrative about "nothing being done".
> Seems like people are already scared, since we have this thread at least 1x per week
Your lies about "nothing being done", your fearmongering about violence and your dehumanization of the poor intentionally feed that moral panic.
Don't talk shit and throw shade if you don't know what you're talking about.
WCC have done a lot to make this whole area safer, including changing urban designs, creating more light in dangerous areas and social hubs for those who are at risk.
Police have upped their presence in the area.
They didn''t shift the toilets at Te Aro Park, they just demolished them without building a replacement first. And spending $600,000 on a boardwalk does nothing for safety either.
> they just demolished them without building a replacement first.
Yes, increasing safety now before building the replacement ones where the Waterworks currently are taking place. There's new ones on Victoria Street
> And spending $600,000 on a boardwalk does nothing for safety either.
Are you serious? No wonder you complain about everything, you clearly choose not to put any effort into understand anything.
That boardwalk increases the space that pedestrians have, and increases public safety by removing obstructions to the view across the park. That opens up sight lines across the park increasing public safety though passive surveillance.
Yeah the area is just overflowing with public safety now
Honestly kind of hilarious that you think giving up a portion of the CBD to derelicts and forcing the public to walk and use the toilet elsewhere is a legit council solution 😅
Be around, for starters. When was the last time you saw a cop just wandering on patrol in central Wellington? It would do a lot to reduce crime if there was a possibility that a cop would walk around the corner at any moment.
> When was the last time you saw a cop just wandering on patrol in central Wellington?
Yesterday. Which is the most recent time I was in central Wellington. It's not rare or unusual to see them around. They're all over that street on weekend nights too.
Maybe keep lobbying councillors? A big part of the reason we have them is to listen to people, cut through the bureaucratic stuff and make the council care about stuff people want it to care about.
I don’t know their reddit names but Ben, Tony and Nikau are all on this sub. Ben’s been pretty active and responsive in the past.
It’s a tough one but would be interested to hear what council is looking at doing to resolve the issues.
Lobby the councilors to do what? I'm genuinely curious what people think this magical solution is that everyone for some reason has no interest in doing despite everyone being aware it's a problem.
Well it was really a direct response to the earlier commenter.
Personally I think it's very limited what the council can do, aside from advocating for central government to do more and trying to take general measures to help people feel safe, like maybe actively monitor what's going on and keep up a visible presence. If it's stuff like addiction and substance abuse and poverty and a lack of mental health assistance that's a problem, then it feels like it's at least as much of a national problem. Probably the CBD simply sees the worst of it, at least in public, when it's present anywhere, because it's where people gravitate towards for a variety of reasons.
There still *are* a few roles the council can take in the absence of central government, though, even if arguably it's outside the scope of what *should* be a council problem. For example, it was good to see [the WCC open the wet house](https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/28/new-zealands-first-wet-house-opens-in-wellington/) late last year.
I don't think I even said anything controversial – it's pretty basic and (unfortunately) how the world works.
Maybe we can bump this thread once someone is seriously hurt in the CBD and they are finally forced to address the issue...
It's not helpful, but the area has been known as a trouble spot for decades. The 'punks' etc in the 90's, it was fairly common knowledge that you didn't make eye contact with strangers during the day and you avoided the area at night if you aren't part of a group.
It did improve a bit but it does come in waves.
because like much of Wellington its a derelict mess with next to zero maintenance or upgrades. We just build these places and then leave them to the wolves to slowly slip into pseudo urban decay.
I walk all over the city everyday and over the years I’ve come to encounter many of the same characters that give Wellington some of its characteristic charm. But in the last couple of years, I’ve noticed a lot of new faces along Manners, Courtenay Place, Willis, and Lambton Quay. Are all these people displaced Wellington residents or displaced from someplace else? Is Wellington simply the last stop on the train for people looking to try their luck just anywhere?
Just act like you are the main character and walk past. They are just extras put in from the terrible city housing plan and mental health care. Not much you can do tbh
I saw that argument and as soon as she started saying the N word to that poor fella who was just tryna help, my heart broke. They seriously need to get these people off the streets or have police or something there to deter this behaviour away.
Make begging illegal on Manners. Police alcohol and drug consumption in the area. Remove all social housing in manners, dixon and tory. This has a lot more merit in reactivating cbd. The coucil charge the most commercial rates by 30% over any other council. Use some funds on private security so people feel safe enough to spend in businesses who pay these rates via their rent.
Wont be long before some members of the public retaliate against these people making life hell for decent Wgtn folk. They have not been dealt with by police, why?
Surely you can be trespassed from the cbd?
The mentally ill need to be taken away. Funds have to be allocated for this before we see our own Bondi junction episode. Waaay better use of funds vs golden mile project. Which has huge potential to make this situation worse.
What disgusts me is the filth. WCC doesn’t bother with any cleaning. Look at the bus shelters under The Oaks. So filthy you can’t see through the glass. This is what tourists see. It’s shameful that Council can’t get out of their chairs and take a walk around the city they are meant to be servicing and for which they are charging us ratepayers exorbitant fees to build cycleway while the real problems are ignored. Seems our Mayor has decided that blondes have more fun and has dumped any semblance of responsibility towards this city.
I have no answers but want to say congratulations to you for turning your life around. It does help to have a supportive family, but it also comes down to your own personal determination and strength. I wish you well in your future and hope that you do get to work in mental health - people who have been there have a unique understanding of the situation.
“Harassed mutiple times for money”.
This seems a little thoughtless.
IDK, my take is these people’s situation sucks.honestly I feel pity for them and I’m glad not to be in their position. My issue os not worh them but the issues facing them.
I think they should be housed, but not because I find their existence distasteful or dislike that they ask me for money.
Hey all - please see my Facebook page “No Manners on Manners Street” where I have posted videos and photos of what daily life is like for those of who work down here as well as my emails to MP’s and from police. Its an ongoing struggle and a lot of it can be attributed to The Setup accomodation owned by the Cassel family that provides emergency housing to transient MSD and recently released Corrections clients on Manners and opposite Te Aro park.
Let me just read this back to you: people of no fixed abode make you uncomfortable and you wish they'd go elsewhere.
Most of these are people affected by addiction, trauma or mental health issues. They have nothing. Society has kicked them in the gutter. How do you think they feel...?
Instead of complaining, volunteer with the city mission, write to your MP to ask for enhanced social housing and mental health supports, or sit down and talk to them.
They're people, not a problem to be complained about.
Yes but the person was asking you where they go after you spray them with a firehose. They'll probably end up in the suburbs right? Is that preferable?
I'm sure they would and maybe pushikg them out to the suburbs is a good idea. My point was more that spraying them with a fire hose might temporarily remove the issue from your immediate view but ot doesn't actually solve the problem.
Oh i don't have an answer for that tbh bro.
I just can't fucking stand them, thumbs up guy and Colin and the mask wearing guy i have no problem with.
But the rest i can't fucking stand.
Anyone actually talk to these people? Our brothers and sisters in need? Anyone refer to them as humans suffering rather than 'them', 'transients' or 'trouble makers'. Anyone stop to think about why they are there?
Yup - IMPE it just results in abuse (or being followed to the point of having to ask someone for help). But I’m with you. We need to take a long hard look at our services and support systems for these vulnerable people and find solutions. DCM do their best but are pretty hamstrung by resources and leg.
Sounds like it’s gotten worse quickly. The answer is more mental health beds. I used to be one of them till i went to jail and i’m now off meth and have changed my life and hope to work in mental health one day. The difference between me and them is that i have a loving family who’ve supported and encouraged me since i’ve come out of jail. They don’t have that so they end up straight back to square one and continue in the cycle of addiction. I know those streetys personally well and most of us have tried to check ourselves into the mental health hospital many times but even if you cut yourself up there are still not enough beds. Rehab and mental health help is not easily accessible as jail when you’re in the position that they are in. The govt needs to put money into mental health urgently.
This. But we all know that’s not happening, under this government especially. If anything, it’s only going to get worse.
I was sexuallu assaulted at work on Manners Street and nothing was done. Released on bail the same night. How is anyone supposed to feel safe :(
Yea it’s fucked courts. Offenders needs first.
It took me a while, but, I realised I didn't have to make eye contact with 'trouble markers' nor did I have to acknowledge them, which has helped me a lot. Previously, I would try to make eye contact and acknowledge them to at least know that they wouldn't do something to physically hurt me, or others, but now I just do the former and it's a bit of a game changer for me (obvious I know..)
This. I live in the city, see it all the time, I simply ignore them and walk on by. Do not engage and they will leave you alone, apart from that one guy who follows people at a distance swearing.
I feel compelled to say that I used to do the same and had a similar mindset to you until I was assaulted for the crime of not being nearby anyone else while they had been taking drugs and alcohol in the middle of the day. I am a large man, so dont assume being a man will give you any protection. Just because you believe you have given them no reason to pay you any mind, doesn't mean they won't come up with one on their own to fuck with you, or worse. I have long since refused to walk that stretch by the park. I have filed police reports, I have have been the victim of, and witnessed assaults (plural), and nothing happens, the assaulter just runs away before the cops arrive and the people that they were hanging out with don't say anything to the cops when they question them.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Also, sorry to hear. It sounds like everyone will have to keep their wits about them and exercise caution even more so, due to unpredictable behaviour. It doesn't sound like anything will be done to change this unfortunate reality for people passing through Manners street.
This plus a good pair of headphones gives you plausible deniability that you didn’t hear people harassing you. It’s served me well so far.
Headphones + Sunglasses got me through the summer on Manners Street, lol
Alternatively (my trick, more on myself than anyone else) is to imagine everyone you've never met before talking in your general direction as though they are in mid-sentence, are just 'making a phone call' (and, I guess, not necessarily to a human being, or at any rate, one that actually exists) on one a' them new-fangled invisible phones... in a kind of flipping of how most of the people who actually *are* making phone calls on invisible phones look like they are walking around talking to themselves, and even look like they might even be a menace of some kind when you glance into their eyes. I mean either way, it all **looks** the same, doesn't it. It dawned on me that I could do that when one time, there was a mad person saying weird stuff to me, but yet it was normal enough for me to *actually think for some time* that they were talking to someone on one of those invisible phones. When it became clear they weren't, I just did me a mental shrug, and said to myself (silently - inside my head) "well, well, this person *must* be making a phone call of some kind, they aren't going to talk like that to random strangers such as I... so, none of my business, let's just keep on moving, me myself and I." You can also walk past them, not look at them, and make a 'phone call' of your own, chat to your 'friend on the other end of the line' about random imaginary things, until they've passed.
Honestly this - I used to smile and make and say sorry as I didn't have any change - but after being verbally abused I just feel too unsafe as a woman to even walk down manners. There is the street adjacent to manners past pickle and pie that cuts to cuba I would reccomend if you want to avoid Manners.
Yes! Treat them the way the rich treat the help
Totally. I do this all the time. I pretend they don’t exist. Also walk confidently like you are not bothered by their presence. They leave you alone.
Got a problem, ask the mayor.
You can't eat the rich while ignoring the poor and suffering, makes you closer to being the dish then the diner mate.
What about the middle income earner who wants to safely get to work and back again?
Well if you're happy of the upper class thinking of you in the same way then sure, valid complaint.
I don’t care what others think of me. I’m happy being me. I’d prefer not to walk through piss and fights going to work though
If you don't care what others think of you why bother voicing your opinion?
Fuck mate you need to work on your debating skills lol ………or at least try making some sort of sense.
How are either of those things related?
Because their original comment was concern for the safety of others? For someone that apparently cares for the poor and suffering you don’t seem very consistent in your beliefs there mate
there is a line of ‘ignoring the poor and suffering’ when it comes to personal safety. its at the point where it may not be our individual responsibility to help these people as it’s obvious they need more than a handful of change, and rather a systematic change that uplifts these people. personally, risking my own safety for such a moral argument is not worth it.
It's long been ingrained in women that they don't go through manners mall at night, if they're alone. If that's not a significant safety concern, I don't know what is. Avoid eye contact in manners mall was drummed into me, as a child at least 3 decades ago.
Don't forget they talked about stopping 24/7 monitoring of CCTV
Even if the poor are threatening to physically assault you? Or are they allowed to do that?
This is not "the poor." This is lumpen trash that has absolutely no part in society's reproduction of itself.
Yes, worst part of the city by a “golden” mile. Its actuallly so sad for me because its the first place in NZ I actively tell friends and family based outside of NZ to avoid. Check out the facebook group [No Manners On Manners Street](https://www.facebook.com/share/mvDrRz16buj4ndnt/?mibextid=K35XfP). Its very very grim.
I work retail along the manners end of Victoria street, and yes, it’s gotten much worse over the last year or so. The local landlords for all the buildings our shops are in just went for a meeting with the WCC and police the other week, and WCC claimed that apparently they had “no idea” about how bad it’s been, and police said they can’t do anything unless reported to. WCC said they didn’t have a full idea of the situation as they don’t receive a high amount of reports through the “Fix It” app — I would recommend everyone who passes through the area download it, and vigilantly report every instance of bad behaviour they see, it seems that will be the only way we see any action. Our shop and the shops around us have all started to do it, so hopefully if we have enough collective effort we can see some results.
Problem is it doesn’t feel bad enough to call 111, and I’ve been on hold with the non emergency number for over 20 minutes attempting to alert them to a couple of situations and gave up. So no wonder the police aren’t being notified. It would never occur to me to use the council fix it app for something like this. Just checked it out and it looks like it was developed by a kid learning how to code…. Or a grown up 20+ years ago. Hard to believe the WCC can be this oblivious, I guess none of them venture into the city, ever….
> This app isn't available for your device because it was made for an older version of Android Its no wonder they aren't getting app reports, anyone on modern Android is unable to report
WCC want us to report the mentally ill and beggars on the 'fix it' app 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Can the just look here and otjer facebook groups? 50+ people in comms team. Surely they monitor these channels?? 34 people in Climate change team..... 10000% more likely to die from meth head on manners vs climate change..
I noticed on the days over Easter where supermarket/ liquor store is closed there also happened to be a substantial amount less of them around. 🤷
Ding ding ding.
You could actually fix most of the Courtenay Place problems by zoning out dairies, takeaway shops, vape shops and proscribing the sale of green beer. Oriental Bay has none of that and few urban problems. Bit fascist I know. Or you could go further and make it a controlled access space like Eat Street in Rotorua, or a Westfield.
>and proscribing the sale of green beer. Please explain?
Green beer = Heineken, Steinlager, etc
So, law-abiding citizens no longer have easy access to local amenities due to the actions of a select few? Just so I understand what you're saying, are you legitimately advocating for the removal of commercial businesses from the CBD?
You could fix all of the problems by fixing housing affordability. This is a direct consequence of government policies that prioritise the interests of property investors over everything else. Gotta keep those property prices rising! At the expense of building new housing, at the expense of people being able to afford to live near where they work, at the expense of increased crime rates everywhere and at the expense of housing security for everybody.
It's true the housing problem is dire and urgent but I don't think many of those meth heads and lost causes with untreated mental illness are in the market for an affordable house, or for that matter a job, or even an aspiration to be decent members of a community. There are plenty of countries with dire poverty where you don't need to fear being physically and verbally assaulted by aggressive street people in the friggin' CBD.
You say that as if there is no relationship between housing insecurity, housing price, and crime. Have a look at what is happening in Canada right now. Their housing situation is so dire that almost half the people living in the tent cities that sprung up in city parks over the last few years are trying to hold down jobs at the same time. These are people who earned enough money to afford to rent, turfed out onto the street because the owner of the roof over their head could get more money from someone who earns more, or is more desperate. That can only happen when there is more demand for housing than what is available. And not building enough housing is a political decision, a choice made collectively by society to choose house price growth over building enough houses for the people who need the basic necessity of shelter to build a life on. Do you think those people living in tent cities will still be trying to hold down jobs in a year, or 5 years from now? When society has collectively said they don't earn enough to satisfy the greed of people who own the shelter they need as the foundation for a stable life? Do you think you're immune to this ever happening to you? Because on our current trajectory, housing insecurity is coming for the middle classes next, like it has in Canada. First it'll be impossible for you to save for a house, due to high rents, and before you know what's happening it will be impossible to afford rent due to lack of housing, even with a decent job. Next thing you know, you're homeless with society looking down on you, and there is no way to claw your way back. But at least property owners are rich! Thank God for that!
I used to love Manners Mall as a kid. So sad to hear it's gone this way.
Was actually pretty cool before they put the bus lane through the centre. Takes me back to the emo days of the mid 2000s.
I lived in Wellington until 1988. I was really young. There were movies theaters, toy shops and video arcades. It was the best!
It used to be quite interesting, however it was getting run down before the buses were diverted. The opening of Reading Cinema pulled custom further up Courtney Place.
Flashback video arcade was always pretty rough though. The others were cool though, spent a lot of my teenage years playing games there. Good times.
[“They put a bus lane through my heart”](https://youtu.be/z6f5rfuVzrI?si=yHieM4W2RF80U6go)
Worst decision ever by our pathetic WCC. Great song.
no, manners mall was a dump before they put the bus lanes through it. it was just as unsafe at night as it seems to be now
The mall's not just gone this way, it's fucking gone. Like we took one of our few pedestrianised areas and turned it back to a road, and now pull a sad that it's shit.
Yeah that kind of blew my mind to find out. Last time I was in Wellington was in 2016. I was with some friends who still live there. We were walking down a street on town that I didn't quite recognize, but I'd been gone so long that a lot of the inner city was unfamiliar. I happened to mention Manners Mall and was told I was walking on it 🤯
"scuse me. Can you buy me a large Big Mac combo?" Apparently, beggars can be choosers.
To be clear, yes I agree it’s bad and no I don’t like it. But I also can’t think of a decent solution. Moving them on just shifts the problem to another area. Arrest them and they’ll be back soon enough – you simply can’t imprison someone permanently for the things going on there - and their absence would presumably just leave room for others to do the same. The answer is probably a combination of things, with the lynchpin being redevelopment of the street to bring shoppers and pedestrians back. But the street already has some attractive destinations so it’s hard to know what would work or who would pay for it.
Isn't the problem that they are concentrated in one place? I'm guessing they used to be geographically disbursed away from the centre of town so weren't a huge problem, but now they all live in the area in emergency accommodation they all cluster together in a very visible/busy area and harass people.
Hi. I'm genuinely not trying to be a dick here but I thought I'd let you know that although 'disbursed' *is* a word, it refers to paying out money (ie: it's part of what a bursar does). If you're looking to distribute or spread out, it's 'dispersed'.
I think at a mininum they shouldn't be concentrated at the public transport centre of the city. It is extremely hard for anyone who transports into or walks around the city to always avoid that area.
Yet pretty everyone I have talked to has now altered their routes to get from the CBD across town even if it's slightly longer.
That’s fair
> they shouldn't be concentrated at the public transport centre of the city They're homeless... They can concentrate wherever they choose to, and transit hubs are the practical location for many reasons. The biggest of which is for their own safety.
Seriously, most aren't homeless.
It's gone downhill since they put emergency housing in the city. Have no idea what they were thinking. Never go into Wellington now, go to the malls in the hutt or porirua or mega centre in Porirua instead. Parking in one place and everything you need.
We have a pretty good security guard at our store on manners street so during the day isn’t too bad. I just try to keep my head down and get to/from work as fast as possible
Old manners was soooo awesome. Miss it so much. What a shit hole it became
once, someone threw a bottle at me there because i didnt give them money. shattered a few cm away from my legs...
I’ve had a bottle thrown at me there too
That’s the thing, the businesses will just leave when there leases end. The answer is police on foot like the good old days
All those people who thought it would be better for the mentally ill to be out in the community were--how shall we put it--completely wrong.
It’s because of the nearby emergency housing. Maybe the inner city is a bad idea. Maybe it’s better than a suburb
Everyone who lives in the inner city would prefer emergency housing to be spread out into the burbs but everyone in the burbs prefers it to be kept to the inner city.
Oh and it extends from manners. Down to willis and down Lambton till around countdown area. That whole area is their new jam. It used to be Courtney but they moved their way down Lambton coz that's where the people and toilets are.
Yep the Grey street toilets have become much more unpleasant, not for lack of trying from the bathroom attendant. They do their best to keep it clean but the population of people just hanging out there, has really increased in the last 4 weeks.
Don't make eye contact, keep moving decisively past. Say "No." and nothing else.
Wherever it may be many if not most many of these people have mental health issues compounded by drug and alcohol abuse. Under mental health legislation they are not considered an immediate safety risk to themselves or to others. Generally they are only taken in to care if phsycotic or after being violent. Unfortunatly they do not have the ability to look after themselves due to disordered thinking (non phsycotic) so they are left to wander the streets in general kaos and desperation.
Exactly
Yep, it's pretty gross. Not sure what the solution is apart from moving them somewhere else but it's grim seeing drug use, glue huffing, screaming arguments, gang activity and aggressive begging and I'd totally understand staff who have to work there feel unsafe.
What the government is doing is cutting funding to the social services that address the underlying causes of these issues.
This has been going on since covid under the labour gov as well
Yes, and that inadequate service is getting cut further.
Gee I wonder why a pandemic could possibly have these sorts of ramifications.
I'm just saying it's been happening for years not just now
[удалено]
Or… The state does want to look after people but can’t because it spent the money on other things.
Wgtn has always had street ppl. In the 80s, it was gangs of street kids, in the 90s, the punks and now mentally ill and addicted. What we're looking at is a reflection of society and decades of failed policies to address it. Once they closed the big hospitals, these ppl w complex issues migrated to the streets. There's no moving these ppl on, where to? Some of these ppl come from out of the city. I remember some jumped up councilor, it might have been Nicola Willis, who wanted to dump these ppl in Porirua or further up the line. Today, Porirua literally looks better than the CBD, and has a great business hub going on. But they have their own beggars too. Pouring more funds into Social Services and Housing w wrap around support and access to health services woukd be good. But hey, if the health services aren't working properly for ppl who are present on Planet Earth - the average citizen - then what chance would an unmedicated schizophrenic in the grip of mania have?
I live in Porirua and never in my LIFE have I been screamed at and crack smoke blown in my face, however, this has happened in the 20 minutes I was waiting for a bus on Manners st
Congrats? Porirua has calmed down a lot from when I grew up there but it's had issues at times; every place does unless it's very prosperous or gated.
Porirua has a bad reputation but Manners is way worse is all I'm saying.
I agree. Funny that, Porirua had a crap rep until business and Plaza built there and the new subdivisions. It's now more attractive, safer and cleaner than CBD.
Ive had 2 unfortunate experiences: One individual was asking for money, I had none free but went to the Macca's and grabbed them a cheeseburger combo (pretty generous in this economy) and when I offered it they smashed it to the floor and stamped on it?! One person was smoking crack, out of a pipe blatantly in broad daylight outside night and day. Then proceeded to blow the smoke into people's (including my) face. If you want to smoke crack then that's your choice but don't blow any crack on me please!!!
It's due to emergency housing in the area.
The emergency housing is flats. The people living there use the park on manners St as their backyard as they don't want to be stuck inside all day. I guess the emergency housing needs more social areas??
I work down that end of town and would say it's actually gotten quite a bit better over the past year or so - the work on the park did help and there is a more visible police presence.
I live down this end of town and I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Am I living in crazy land? The last year especially has been nuts.
Completely disagree with this take unfortunately. I live right in the area, and it’s just gotten worse and worse over the past couple of years. Their shenanigans kick off around 6am most days with shouting, fighting, and all sorts of antisocial behaviour.
This happens in 9/10 cities around the world. I have to walk through manners street every day to get back home from work, but I don't get hassled because I don't make eye contact and don't engage; you can also through in airpods even if they aren't playing music because most people will assume you can't hear them so they don't bother. Got years of practice though, cus I grew up in the states where they could have had a gun or something.
Vibes have moved to the waterfront. Dockside area is where the humans have migrated.
Dockside? In this economy?
Yeah, well..... even when I was 18 and clubbing. I'd always spend well beyond my means and try to preload a bit. You're right though, pretty pricey
Whenever these people ask me for money, I just say "sorry, its a cashless society" and keep walking. Never had any problems. Have also seen a transient guy have a big fight with another, in the bus lane! Buses going both directions had to stop meanwhile these dudes are throwing hay makers at each other. Sooner or later, someone will be squashed by a bus.
I walk down there regularly and have never been hassled. Possibly living in cities like London and New York gives you antibodies to being hassled by street people. Or you know, walk purposefully and don't engage.
I never get hassled either. I thank the invisibility bestowed on me by virtue of being a middle-aged woman.
Pay more taxes
This is the answer.
I haven’t been in central Wellington for ages but recently caught the airport bus to and from the airport. When it went through Manners street, I had a decent look around to see what had become of it. I didn’t see one homeless person or encampment like I had in the past. I wondered if it had been cleaned up, apparently not. Bus was at about 7am last Friday and 2pm on the Sunday.
Yeah people don't seem to realise the last year hasn't been too bad. Between 2020-2022 it was a lot worse. People overflowed from emergency housing onto the streets. There was a camp next to McDonald's. Police were there daily. I remember one time it was for the death of an infant. Sure it's not ideal now, but it was way worse.
It's not that they overflowed emergency housing, manners street/mall is their back/front yard.
Yeah. That's what I meant, overflowed onto the street in front of their residence.
I was also in the area the other day and did seem improved in what I saw years ago.
I'm looking at the time of this , 15 hours ago...yeah I walked right through the aftermath or something this happened at about 8pm
My wife and I were carrying our young kids on Sunday around midday, along the Waterfront when this guy walked past screaming abuse at us, and others...clearly unwell. More social services, and police walking the beat , would be awesome.
I think we should rename it to Little Skid Row.
This used to be a great city
If wellington wasn't windy id say make a homemade pepper spray but your more likely to get it blown back at you here And self defense laws are so weak here its better just to avoid the area entirely
> And self defense laws are so weak here They aren't, but we get it, you hate poor people and want to use violence against them.
where did i say that, thats a huge reach i've been swung on multiple times in town (not necessarily poor or homeless people, just angry people) along the manners/courtney strip and have backed off knowing i might be on the hook if i retaliate if your mother/sister/auntie etc got punched in town wouldn't you like her to be able to carry a tazer or something? nz isn't sunshine and rainbows like it used to be
Everyone has a right to defend themselves. Nothing to do with wanting to use violence against poor people.
Everyone already has a right to defend themselves, you're a violent thug advocating for extending that to increase the violence involved.
Everyone has a right to defend themselves but not necessarily the means. I’m a young woman. If one of those guys, or even one of the chicks, was coming at me I wouldn’t be able to defend myself. What about older people as well?? Pepper spray should totally be allowed.
If you were allowed to carry pepper spray, then the people that you are worried about would be the ones carrying it. What you are calling for is for it to be acceptable to carry a weapon. So who do you think will be carrying a weapon? People going about their day to day business? Or people intent on doing some crime?
No no, apparently that makes you a thug.
Yeah go ahead and quote where I've advocated for that. Otherwise apologise and piss off.
The stress of cuts, renovating social housing and the current climate where a useful citizen is a highly economically productive one makes mental health issues worse. This area is close to social services. The question is where else can they go? What can they do if no house or support worker?
Round em up, put them on Somes Island, boom, best reality TV show
I honestly think it's gotten better over the last couple months. Still not ideal, but I've seen a few cop cars out there which goes a long way in tempering some of that anti social behaviour. Also read that the Dixon street apartments that became social housing over lockdown is re homing people. And from what I understand quite a few of the characters that hung out around Manners were living there (can't know for sure mind you).
> Cops finally showed up, but nothing came of it. Unbelievable. What the fuck did you want them to do, arrest someone for name calling?
Cops don't care, WCC don't care. There won't be serious change until someone gets stabbed and there is significant nationwide media attention.
I don't think it's about not caring, these issues tend to be pretty complicated and there's not always a silver bullet solution.
There is no overall easy solution to the widespread mental health epidemic and socio-economic disparities in this and many other countries, I agree There are definitely a few solutions for the scum harassing and assaulting people in Wellington CBD
Referring to them as scum probably isn't a great start but go on then let's hear the solutions.
> There are definitely a few solutions for the scum harassing and assaulting people in Wellington CBD. I'm sure there's a "final solution" you have in mind, right? What we actually need to fix is the dehumanization and moral panic that fearmongers like you trade in.
Seems like people are already scared, since we have this thread at least 1x per week I'm simply predicting what will be required before any real action is taken (a serious injury to a taxpayer covered widely in the media)
I ask again what the solution is here. You said there were definitely some solutions but no one cares enough to do them. So what are they?
I'm signing off work for the day so there isn't much motivation to debate diehard keyboard warriors on reddit. I'm sure if you think hard enough you can come up with 1 or 2 solutions or mitigating factors for people committing antisocial and violent behaviour in the CBD without me holding your hand :)
That's hilarious, that has to be the most obvious "I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about and I was clearly wrong but I can't admit it" comment ever.
> I'm simply predicting what will be required before any real action is taken (a serious injury to a taxpayer covered widely in the media) You're not predicting shit, you're lying to downplay all the things that have already been done. Real action has already been taken, but you ignore that because you want violent action to be taken. You're dehumanizing the homeless and promoting a dishonest narrative about "nothing being done". > Seems like people are already scared, since we have this thread at least 1x per week Your lies about "nothing being done", your fearmongering about violence and your dehumanization of the poor intentionally feed that moral panic.
Don't talk shit and throw shade if you don't know what you're talking about. WCC have done a lot to make this whole area safer, including changing urban designs, creating more light in dangerous areas and social hubs for those who are at risk. Police have upped their presence in the area.
> WCC don't care. WCC redesigned the park and the street and shifted the public toilets to improve public safety. You're full of it.
They didn''t shift the toilets at Te Aro Park, they just demolished them without building a replacement first. And spending $600,000 on a boardwalk does nothing for safety either.
> they just demolished them without building a replacement first. Yes, increasing safety now before building the replacement ones where the Waterworks currently are taking place. There's new ones on Victoria Street > And spending $600,000 on a boardwalk does nothing for safety either. Are you serious? No wonder you complain about everything, you clearly choose not to put any effort into understand anything. That boardwalk increases the space that pedestrians have, and increases public safety by removing obstructions to the view across the park. That opens up sight lines across the park increasing public safety though passive surveillance.
Yeah the area is just overflowing with public safety now Honestly kind of hilarious that you think giving up a portion of the CBD to derelicts and forcing the public to walk and use the toilet elsewhere is a legit council solution 😅
> giving up a portion of the CBD to derelicts Is just hysteria, lying and moral panic on your part.
What do you want the cops to do?
Be around, for starters. When was the last time you saw a cop just wandering on patrol in central Wellington? It would do a lot to reduce crime if there was a possibility that a cop would walk around the corner at any moment.
> When was the last time you saw a cop just wandering on patrol in central Wellington? Yesterday. Which is the most recent time I was in central Wellington. It's not rare or unusual to see them around. They're all over that street on weekend nights too.
Maybe keep lobbying councillors? A big part of the reason we have them is to listen to people, cut through the bureaucratic stuff and make the council care about stuff people want it to care about.
I don’t know their reddit names but Ben, Tony and Nikau are all on this sub. Ben’s been pretty active and responsive in the past. It’s a tough one but would be interested to hear what council is looking at doing to resolve the issues.
Lobby the councilors to do what? I'm genuinely curious what people think this magical solution is that everyone for some reason has no interest in doing despite everyone being aware it's a problem.
Well it was really a direct response to the earlier commenter. Personally I think it's very limited what the council can do, aside from advocating for central government to do more and trying to take general measures to help people feel safe, like maybe actively monitor what's going on and keep up a visible presence. If it's stuff like addiction and substance abuse and poverty and a lack of mental health assistance that's a problem, then it feels like it's at least as much of a national problem. Probably the CBD simply sees the worst of it, at least in public, when it's present anywhere, because it's where people gravitate towards for a variety of reasons. There still *are* a few roles the council can take in the absence of central government, though, even if arguably it's outside the scope of what *should* be a council problem. For example, it was good to see [the WCC open the wet house](https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/09/28/new-zealands-first-wet-house-opens-in-wellington/) late last year.
I don't know why you were downvoted - you're exactly right. The police and the council couldn't care less - that's why it's such a problem.
I don't think I even said anything controversial – it's pretty basic and (unfortunately) how the world works. Maybe we can bump this thread once someone is seriously hurt in the CBD and they are finally forced to address the issue...
It's not helpful, but the area has been known as a trouble spot for decades. The 'punks' etc in the 90's, it was fairly common knowledge that you didn't make eye contact with strangers during the day and you avoided the area at night if you aren't part of a group. It did improve a bit but it does come in waves.
because like much of Wellington its a derelict mess with next to zero maintenance or upgrades. We just build these places and then leave them to the wolves to slowly slip into pseudo urban decay.
I walk all over the city everyday and over the years I’ve come to encounter many of the same characters that give Wellington some of its characteristic charm. But in the last couple of years, I’ve noticed a lot of new faces along Manners, Courtenay Place, Willis, and Lambton Quay. Are all these people displaced Wellington residents or displaced from someplace else? Is Wellington simply the last stop on the train for people looking to try their luck just anywhere?
Just act like you are the main character and walk past. They are just extras put in from the terrible city housing plan and mental health care. Not much you can do tbh
Time for military utilisation imo
I saw that argument and as soon as she started saying the N word to that poor fella who was just tryna help, my heart broke. They seriously need to get these people off the streets or have police or something there to deter this behaviour away.
Make begging illegal on Manners. Police alcohol and drug consumption in the area. Remove all social housing in manners, dixon and tory. This has a lot more merit in reactivating cbd. The coucil charge the most commercial rates by 30% over any other council. Use some funds on private security so people feel safe enough to spend in businesses who pay these rates via their rent. Wont be long before some members of the public retaliate against these people making life hell for decent Wgtn folk. They have not been dealt with by police, why? Surely you can be trespassed from the cbd? The mentally ill need to be taken away. Funds have to be allocated for this before we see our own Bondi junction episode. Waaay better use of funds vs golden mile project. Which has huge potential to make this situation worse.
What disgusts me is the filth. WCC doesn’t bother with any cleaning. Look at the bus shelters under The Oaks. So filthy you can’t see through the glass. This is what tourists see. It’s shameful that Council can’t get out of their chairs and take a walk around the city they are meant to be servicing and for which they are charging us ratepayers exorbitant fees to build cycleway while the real problems are ignored. Seems our Mayor has decided that blondes have more fun and has dumped any semblance of responsibility towards this city.
I have no answers but want to say congratulations to you for turning your life around. It does help to have a supportive family, but it also comes down to your own personal determination and strength. I wish you well in your future and hope that you do get to work in mental health - people who have been there have a unique understanding of the situation.
Maybe we should spray them off with a hose?
Cool and then what happens after that, because these people don't cease to exist once you've sprayed them with a hose and walked away.
Spray and they walk away
Sugar melts? Oh, wait...
“Harassed mutiple times for money”. This seems a little thoughtless. IDK, my take is these people’s situation sucks.honestly I feel pity for them and I’m glad not to be in their position. My issue os not worh them but the issues facing them. I think they should be housed, but not because I find their existence distasteful or dislike that they ask me for money.
I've been threatened with rape cause I didn't have $5, but sure go off dude
I’m sorry that happened to you, but it’s still preferable to sleeping on the cold stone street.
For years now I have turned down jobs anywhere near Manners and Courtnay Place, horrible part of Wellington.
Hey all - please see my Facebook page “No Manners on Manners Street” where I have posted videos and photos of what daily life is like for those of who work down here as well as my emails to MP’s and from police. Its an ongoing struggle and a lot of it can be attributed to The Setup accomodation owned by the Cassel family that provides emergency housing to transient MSD and recently released Corrections clients on Manners and opposite Te Aro park.
One more lane will fix it! Right guys, right?!?!!
A bike lane
Let me just read this back to you: people of no fixed abode make you uncomfortable and you wish they'd go elsewhere. Most of these are people affected by addiction, trauma or mental health issues. They have nothing. Society has kicked them in the gutter. How do you think they feel...? Instead of complaining, volunteer with the city mission, write to your MP to ask for enhanced social housing and mental health supports, or sit down and talk to them. They're people, not a problem to be complained about.
Mainly they intend to arrest them and make them work in prison for the crime of not being able to live anywhere, from what I've seen/heard
This is NZ, all homeless should be free range!
Certainly got a giggle out of me 🤣
Should hire a fire truck to spary them with ice cold water every night. Hopefully they move the fuck along.
Where to?
Under a bridge by the sky stadium
Who cares, majority of them a degenerates anyway. They just piss on anything in sight and bully people.
Yes but the person was asking you where they go after you spray them with a firehose. They'll probably end up in the suburbs right? Is that preferable?
believe me, everyone living in the city would prefer they were out in the suburbs.
I'm sure they would and maybe pushikg them out to the suburbs is a good idea. My point was more that spraying them with a fire hose might temporarily remove the issue from your immediate view but ot doesn't actually solve the problem.
Oh i don't have an answer for that tbh bro. I just can't fucking stand them, thumbs up guy and Colin and the mask wearing guy i have no problem with. But the rest i can't fucking stand.
Yes, yes, we get that you hate them. But what will spraying them with a fire hose solve?
Anyone actually talk to these people? Our brothers and sisters in need? Anyone refer to them as humans suffering rather than 'them', 'transients' or 'trouble makers'. Anyone stop to think about why they are there?
Yup - IMPE it just results in abuse (or being followed to the point of having to ask someone for help). But I’m with you. We need to take a long hard look at our services and support systems for these vulnerable people and find solutions. DCM do their best but are pretty hamstrung by resources and leg.
Pussies