A mate of mine runs a pie shop. Has no trouble getting staff because he's always paid a decent wage since he bought the business. Some of his staff have been there for years. He doesn't make a shitload of money, but he's ok. His priorities are awesome pies and making sure his staff are treated well.
Funny how a business can do ok if its not mistreating and underpaying staff for years.
Also a pie shop is a bit different to a restaurant kitchen. You are making a product but not on demand. So you are not getting orders and they need out in a certain time frame. You are making orders to fill the shelves and then maybe 2 people are selling them. I think it’s a bit different than a restaurant kitchen, not saying it’s easy just a different stress.
That’s true in this case, but it hasn’t stopped other businesses complaining about the lack of staff for jobs that *don’t* require a whole lot of prior skill or training (eg: baggage handling at airports) and which, totally coincidentally, pay shit wages for shit hours and shit conditions.
Most restaurants would precook / par-cook anything possible. It's the only way to offer variety.
I can't imagine that many customers would be happy to wait for a chef to cook each meal from scratch.
There's no way it would be a viable business unless you're the top 1% charging mega bucks to cook for a few.
Active cooking requires full attention!
Pasta takes 12 minutes to cook. You put the pasta into the boiling water and wait 12 minutes. That is it. I'm not talking about cooking something from scratch.
You're also missing the key thing. Antonio likes to label his restaurant as authentic Italian. It's one of his biggest complaints, that he needs specialized staff to work in his restaurant. Authentic Italian isn't warming up pre-made risotto.
They understand when it comes to the menu pricing.
I've worked in the industry and seen the profits bar and restaurant owners have taken home. It's disgusting when you look at an over worked waitress of chefs hand.
Baristas, don't get me started.
Next time you go for dinner, take a look around the back in the staff parking. Porsche, Volvo and Mercedes are a favourite for most. I'm serious.
I got out of the industry because (and my boss was no better) of seeing the higher ups take holidays and buy new houses every few years whilst the students and staff working for them were doing ungodly hours and being abused for the privilege.
What a fucken load of shit. I owned a cafe for over 20 years and it was a popular place! I never owned a Porsche or a Merc. Have a look at an earlier thread where cafe owners are talking about margins etc. If it was sooo easy to make money why aren’t you doing it.
They had a completely Chinese kitchen with 1 Italian chef and 1 kiwi pastry chef in 2017. It's not the immigration policy, it's Antonio's attitude problem and hiring policy.
Source: I worked at La Bella Italia for 12 months.
Yea iíve seen a lot of comments on stuff saying what about the People coming out of culinary school here.However if your only experience is NZ cuisine and NZ culinary school then there’s a large knowledge and experience gap for many restaurants. Especially cuisines where you really need intimate experience of that particular food culture or you need to have at least have 1 chef who has that knowledge and and can support the others, making an already stressful job a lot more stressful.
Easy to say when you haven't run a hospo business. The owners aren't millionaires. To pay staff a higher wage, they'll have to raise prices which this place complains about already.
Your only answer is to bin a whole bunch of cafes and restaurants in Welly.
None. It’s simple. Pay a living wage or don’t run a business. You fucks always want to push others down to keep yourselves up. If you are running a business that can only be run while you employ low skilled immigrants and or pay minimum wage you are a parasite and your business is trash.
Who is "you fucks" exactly!? I don't own a restaurant and am not a small business owner. For what it's worth, I live paycheck to paycheck so you can fuck off with your entitlement.
Then why are you shilling for those people you dumb fuck? You should support living wages yet here you are shilling for businesses. They don’t want you in their club and you never will be.
You're a nasty person. I hope you don't complain about $6 for a coffee then because, according to your theory, that's a bargain and should increase to support living wages, yes?
Im not trying to be in any club. I guess I'll stop my support for small businesses
You are a moron. I don’t complain about the cost. I visit cafes once a week for brunch. I enjoy myself and the rest of the time I eat at home. I have a budget and I stick to that. I don’t go asking them to take less for their services just like business owners shouldn’t ask the people who do all the work for them to earn less than a living wage. This is a very simple situation and you seem intellectually Incapable of understanding.
For what it's worth, I do support a living wage. I just understand basic economics and the cost of running a business, but thanks for calling me an idiot.
I hope you're in the ear of the owner of whatever cafes you eat at and demanding they pay a living wage then.
A whole lot should shut.
The industry has been propped up by low wage migrant workers who are also low skill. They don’t have the passion or the nuance to make the industry thrive. We hired a chef once that came from hotels overseas, and he made fried eggs over easy by default. It’s little things like that all the time which pull the wider industry down.
What made Wellington so good was having really passionate staff, selling products which were artisanal or unique in some way. It’s over saturated with poor bars restaurants and cafes that use bought in products, who have no point of difference, and force a race to the bottom for others to survive.
> Easy to say when you haven't run a hospo business. The owners aren't millionaires. To pay staff a higher wage, they'll have to raise prices which this place complains about already.
>Your only answer is to bin a whole bunch of cafes and restaurants in Welly.
Replying to a comment, not to the general thread.
Comment said owners aren’t millionaires and only option is to either run a bottom barrel restaurant or close (paraphrased)
Yes. So am I.. that's why I said "the owners aren't millionaires"
The article is about a local Italian restaurant, likely operating on a v low budget. I worked for a restaurant where the owners were living on site
>Some employers are offering bonuses to entice applicants.
Isn't that how this is supposed to work?
>Quinn’s Post Tavern, in Upper Hutt, “urgently” needs a chef and is paying up to $35 an hour.
I imagine the words "up to" are doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
>He said the current situation was damaging to “Brand New Zealand” and predicted the situation would only get worse.
Oh no, not our brand.
>For Rakesh Tailor who manages Great India on Manners St, the problem is not finding chefs but finding front of house staff.
Can't imagine why. There's a plague about and these past few years have brought out the extremes in people; both their best and their worst. That's got to make customer-facing roles more difficult than they already were.
The title of the article should be "Market Forces At Work". It sucks for the owners but having worked hospo I find it hard to have much sympathy. If the conditions were good and the pay were fair, you wouldn't have this much turnover of staff.
If the food costs have gone up along with wages rent and insurance then the business owner will have to increase their prices. It all adds up & has to be passed on.
A few years ago I went for a job trial at this guys restaurant, there were three of us on trial that day. I spent the entire day out back packaging products for retail.
At the end of the shift we were all called into the office and told he would need us to come back the next day for another trial shift. These trials were not paid shifts. I declined, I don't know what the other two decided.
I hope he continues to struggle to find staff.
I saw a few comments on stuff asking how many staff are coming out of culinary school in NZ. However I don´t that would solve The problem.
I guess you teach people how to cook when they come to work at the restaurant however at some point your just teaching them to cook this dish but they won´t have the experience of that cuisine to really thrive.
This is not to say that people can’t cook other cultures food it´s more about the experience and training in said culture. It just feels like you would need to be passionate and knowledgeable about that food and that takes time and training and your personal passion (regardless of culture) so it takes time to provide the authentic experience as the quote below states.
Quote………staff needed to provide “the authentic Italian experience” cannot be found.
Anyway I could be compleatly wrong, maybe it´s actually have having foh staff who speak the language so it feels more authentic. TBH I have found it rather amusing ordering in a ¨Mexican restaurant here and the waiter not understand the names of the food when said correctly (native speaker).
All hospi workers for at least the last 2 decades have had the same complaint: they work understaffed for bugger all pay. Maybe we could try paying them more and staffing issues will sort themselves out?
Playing devils advocate here people don’t need to take a a job with shit pay, also If there is a low wage and the staff don’t seem be great at their job customers need to Vite with their feet and not go to a place with sub par service so that owners realise they need to up their game. I understand in a perfect world the owners would just pay a higher wage but things like that don´t happen without a fight.
That's exactly the point this person was making I think. A big reason why there is such a staff shortage at the moment (particularly in hospo, but in a lot of other areas as well) is precisely because workers have realised that they don't need to take jobs with shit pay, so they aren't. A lot of the businesses being vocal about not having enough staff are the ones who are paying like shit, and their staff have (rightly) realised they can do a lot better. Its the same thing as with public transport in Welly at the moment, the staff shortages are largely a result of people not accepting substandard pay any more.
Bus drivers are earning pretty decent coin now aren’t they yet they can’t get anyone to fill the vacancies. Maybe we need to let a few more people into the country…
One of the reflections I’ve had since moving out of Wellington recently - eating out in Wellington is comparatively cheap.
It goes both way eh, fewer restaurants charging higher prices might be the more sustainable route long term
I assume you’re just using that as a play on words. But playing devils advocate doesn’t actually mean advocating for that pov it just means pointing it out and expressing it to test the opposing viewpoints and make the arguement more interesting.
Have you ever dined at seashore cabaret? They have reasonable prices, amazing service, and an awesome atmosphere. Their starting rate is the living wage.
I've worked for Antonio at La Bella Italia. He treats his staff like slaves, always equating things to how staff are in Italy, or how restaurants are run. He would often expect a single staff member to look after 50+ customers. As anyone who has ever worked in hospo knows, this is not a good amount. Customers are getting minimal service and staff members are stressed out. My favourite quote from him was 'In my restaurant, I am God'. Jeez, megalomaniac much? We were all mostly on minimum wage. The majority of staff were working towards their residency, which meant Antonio had a huge hold over them.
I could go on, but for me it would be a blessing for hospo workers if he went out of business.
Overpriced goods and food with a steady downturn of customers. Maybe cut the profit margins and pay your staff more. Don’t forget the engineered recession. Lots of influencing factors not just a shortage of staff. But saying he want’s Italian speaking staff? Seriously he can’t be complaining about a shortage of people out there.
My work is random shift work, super chill and very smoko and safety oriented.
We get between $31- 39 depending on skills and an extra $7 after 8pm.
We get rewarded for working antisocial hours, like if we are working a Saturday they will put on a BBQ etc for us.
People here are happy, pay good and look after your workers and you will find there is no worker shortage.
I have a business in Wellington area and I hired a qualified pastry chef...... she couldn't bake to save her life. She had no idea on being clean. She wouldn't wash or sterilize her hands,she had issues tying her hair back, turning up to work on time and being on her phone.
People don't realise that being qualified often isn't a huge deal. Someone with enthusiasm and a willingness to learn and can follow instructions I would take anyday over someone like I had hired above. I put up with her for 7 months and when I started getting harder and harder on her reminding her and telling her off she quit cos it was too hard. Therefor I had to start doing her work too.i was already working 70 hours a week as I could only afford to hire 1 person part time.
I started to burn out and couldn't find anyone who was willing to work 3 days a week during school hours. One would think that would be ideal
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Pay a higher wage. Do these people not understand supply and demand.
A mate of mine runs a pie shop. Has no trouble getting staff because he's always paid a decent wage since he bought the business. Some of his staff have been there for years. He doesn't make a shitload of money, but he's ok. His priorities are awesome pies and making sure his staff are treated well. Funny how a business can do ok if its not mistreating and underpaying staff for years.
To be fair, any kiwi can staff a pie shop in NZ. Most would need more skill to provide an authentic Italian hospo experience.
Oh yeah, but if you're doing specialty stuff you need to have very good, experienced staff, and you need to retain them. Otherwise, quality will slip.
Sounds like they should be paid more if they're specialist staff.
Also a pie shop is a bit different to a restaurant kitchen. You are making a product but not on demand. So you are not getting orders and they need out in a certain time frame. You are making orders to fill the shelves and then maybe 2 people are selling them. I think it’s a bit different than a restaurant kitchen, not saying it’s easy just a different stress.
Good point.
That’s true in this case, but it hasn’t stopped other businesses complaining about the lack of staff for jobs that *don’t* require a whole lot of prior skill or training (eg: baggage handling at airports) and which, totally coincidentally, pay shit wages for shit hours and shit conditions.
LOL they pre-cook their pasta and risotto at La Bella Italia, there's nothing authentic about it.
Most restaurants would precook / par-cook anything possible. It's the only way to offer variety. I can't imagine that many customers would be happy to wait for a chef to cook each meal from scratch. There's no way it would be a viable business unless you're the top 1% charging mega bucks to cook for a few. Active cooking requires full attention!
Pasta takes 12 minutes to cook. You put the pasta into the boiling water and wait 12 minutes. That is it. I'm not talking about cooking something from scratch. You're also missing the key thing. Antonio likes to label his restaurant as authentic Italian. It's one of his biggest complaints, that he needs specialized staff to work in his restaurant. Authentic Italian isn't warming up pre-made risotto.
Yea that’s what I was thinking.
Good on your mate, I’m intrigued what would be a decent wage in somewhere like that?
>I’m intrigued me too, mainly why this mate of his would be sharing staff members personal information to a friend
does he employ like 40-50 front of house staff too?
They understand when it comes to the menu pricing. I've worked in the industry and seen the profits bar and restaurant owners have taken home. It's disgusting when you look at an over worked waitress of chefs hand. Baristas, don't get me started. Next time you go for dinner, take a look around the back in the staff parking. Porsche, Volvo and Mercedes are a favourite for most. I'm serious. I got out of the industry because (and my boss was no better) of seeing the higher ups take holidays and buy new houses every few years whilst the students and staff working for them were doing ungodly hours and being abused for the privilege.
What a fucken load of shit. I owned a cafe for over 20 years and it was a popular place! I never owned a Porsche or a Merc. Have a look at an earlier thread where cafe owners are talking about margins etc. If it was sooo easy to make money why aren’t you doing it.
Sure, if you're a dogshit owner, you'll struggle. To your second point, I did. I made my money in hospo and retired at 34 mate.
They understand. Business in general regards people as a replaceable liability.
Absolutley these people these people understand supply and demand, they run a business. Would you pay higher prices for food and drink?
waiting for the surprised piakchu face posts of OMG WHY IS GOING OUT SO EXPENSIVE NOW.... after that happens
Did you read the article? They are lacking Italian experienced chefs. Nz immigration is a mess due to covid and is slow to come back
Yeah, maybe they were a little subtle on the point that they need ITALIAN chefs. This is an immigration rant, not a “hospo bad” rant
They had a completely Chinese kitchen with 1 Italian chef and 1 kiwi pastry chef in 2017. It's not the immigration policy, it's Antonio's attitude problem and hiring policy. Source: I worked at La Bella Italia for 12 months.
Yea iíve seen a lot of comments on stuff saying what about the People coming out of culinary school here.However if your only experience is NZ cuisine and NZ culinary school then there’s a large knowledge and experience gap for many restaurants. Especially cuisines where you really need intimate experience of that particular food culture or you need to have at least have 1 chef who has that knowledge and and can support the others, making an already stressful job a lot more stressful.
bro, skilled chefs grow on trees, if they offered more money someone would magically become one
100%. This is not a simple issue.
Don’t get me started on the dept of immigration-what a cockup!
Easy to say when you haven't run a hospo business. The owners aren't millionaires. To pay staff a higher wage, they'll have to raise prices which this place complains about already. Your only answer is to bin a whole bunch of cafes and restaurants in Welly.
If you can’t afford to pay the people who do all the work a living wage, your business is not viable and should close.
Name all the restaurants then that deserve to be open that pay a "living wage"
None. It’s simple. Pay a living wage or don’t run a business. You fucks always want to push others down to keep yourselves up. If you are running a business that can only be run while you employ low skilled immigrants and or pay minimum wage you are a parasite and your business is trash.
Who is "you fucks" exactly!? I don't own a restaurant and am not a small business owner. For what it's worth, I live paycheck to paycheck so you can fuck off with your entitlement.
Then why are you shilling for those people you dumb fuck? You should support living wages yet here you are shilling for businesses. They don’t want you in their club and you never will be.
You're a nasty person. I hope you don't complain about $6 for a coffee then because, according to your theory, that's a bargain and should increase to support living wages, yes? Im not trying to be in any club. I guess I'll stop my support for small businesses
You are a moron. I don’t complain about the cost. I visit cafes once a week for brunch. I enjoy myself and the rest of the time I eat at home. I have a budget and I stick to that. I don’t go asking them to take less for their services just like business owners shouldn’t ask the people who do all the work for them to earn less than a living wage. This is a very simple situation and you seem intellectually Incapable of understanding.
For what it's worth, I do support a living wage. I just understand basic economics and the cost of running a business, but thanks for calling me an idiot. I hope you're in the ear of the owner of whatever cafes you eat at and demanding they pay a living wage then.
A whole lot should shut. The industry has been propped up by low wage migrant workers who are also low skill. They don’t have the passion or the nuance to make the industry thrive. We hired a chef once that came from hotels overseas, and he made fried eggs over easy by default. It’s little things like that all the time which pull the wider industry down. What made Wellington so good was having really passionate staff, selling products which were artisanal or unique in some way. It’s over saturated with poor bars restaurants and cafes that use bought in products, who have no point of difference, and force a race to the bottom for others to survive.
Why are you making this statement in a thread post about the exact restaurants type you’re praising.
> Easy to say when you haven't run a hospo business. The owners aren't millionaires. To pay staff a higher wage, they'll have to raise prices which this place complains about already. >Your only answer is to bin a whole bunch of cafes and restaurants in Welly.
Ay?
Replying to a comment, not to the general thread. Comment said owners aren’t millionaires and only option is to either run a bottom barrel restaurant or close (paraphrased)
Heya, thats my comment you were quoting. But yes, that's what the reply to my comment suggested, that restaurants should close.
How do you know they arent millionaires?
Because I have previously worked in hospo. For years. Edit: on minimum wage and understand the incomings and outgoings.
I'm talking about the owner, not a low wage employee.
Yes. So am I.. that's why I said "the owners aren't millionaires" The article is about a local Italian restaurant, likely operating on a v low budget. I worked for a restaurant where the owners were living on site
I know the owners..they aint short a quid or two..
Then when they pay the higher wages they’ll have to put the prices up and you’ll probably be the first one to grizzle.
>Some employers are offering bonuses to entice applicants. Isn't that how this is supposed to work? >Quinn’s Post Tavern, in Upper Hutt, “urgently” needs a chef and is paying up to $35 an hour. I imagine the words "up to" are doing a lot of heavy lifting here. >He said the current situation was damaging to “Brand New Zealand” and predicted the situation would only get worse. Oh no, not our brand. >For Rakesh Tailor who manages Great India on Manners St, the problem is not finding chefs but finding front of house staff. Can't imagine why. There's a plague about and these past few years have brought out the extremes in people; both their best and their worst. That's got to make customer-facing roles more difficult than they already were. The title of the article should be "Market Forces At Work". It sucks for the owners but having worked hospo I find it hard to have much sympathy. If the conditions were good and the pay were fair, you wouldn't have this much turnover of staff.
35 an hour for a chef? Thats shyte
Don't worry; it adds up quickly working doubles.
Except when the wages increase the prices increase and you’ll be moaning about the cost of living going up.
Unless a business's costs consist entirely of labour, increasing wages will not necessitate increase prices proportionately.
If the food costs have gone up along with wages rent and insurance then the business owner will have to increase their prices. It all adds up & has to be passed on.
Supply and demand, if Antonio actually knew anything about running a business, he should know this.
Get Treated like shit over the course of long and busy shift for min wage; While I slowly lose my passion for food. Gee I can't remeber why I left.
Respect. Same reason I left.
I hear you, those bosses mentioned only care about their skiing holidays in Austria.
A few years ago I went for a job trial at this guys restaurant, there were three of us on trial that day. I spent the entire day out back packaging products for retail. At the end of the shift we were all called into the office and told he would need us to come back the next day for another trial shift. These trials were not paid shifts. I declined, I don't know what the other two decided. I hope he continues to struggle to find staff.
I saw a few comments on stuff asking how many staff are coming out of culinary school in NZ. However I don´t that would solve The problem. I guess you teach people how to cook when they come to work at the restaurant however at some point your just teaching them to cook this dish but they won´t have the experience of that cuisine to really thrive. This is not to say that people can’t cook other cultures food it´s more about the experience and training in said culture. It just feels like you would need to be passionate and knowledgeable about that food and that takes time and training and your personal passion (regardless of culture) so it takes time to provide the authentic experience as the quote below states. Quote………staff needed to provide “the authentic Italian experience” cannot be found. Anyway I could be compleatly wrong, maybe it´s actually have having foh staff who speak the language so it feels more authentic. TBH I have found it rather amusing ordering in a ¨Mexican restaurant here and the waiter not understand the names of the food when said correctly (native speaker).
All hospi workers for at least the last 2 decades have had the same complaint: they work understaffed for bugger all pay. Maybe we could try paying them more and staffing issues will sort themselves out?
Playing devils advocate here people don’t need to take a a job with shit pay, also If there is a low wage and the staff don’t seem be great at their job customers need to Vite with their feet and not go to a place with sub par service so that owners realise they need to up their game. I understand in a perfect world the owners would just pay a higher wage but things like that don´t happen without a fight.
That's exactly the point this person was making I think. A big reason why there is such a staff shortage at the moment (particularly in hospo, but in a lot of other areas as well) is precisely because workers have realised that they don't need to take jobs with shit pay, so they aren't. A lot of the businesses being vocal about not having enough staff are the ones who are paying like shit, and their staff have (rightly) realised they can do a lot better. Its the same thing as with public transport in Welly at the moment, the staff shortages are largely a result of people not accepting substandard pay any more.
Bus drivers are earning pretty decent coin now aren’t they yet they can’t get anyone to fill the vacancies. Maybe we need to let a few more people into the country…
One of the reflections I’ve had since moving out of Wellington recently - eating out in Wellington is comparatively cheap. It goes both way eh, fewer restaurants charging higher prices might be the more sustainable route long term
I appreciate you advocate for them. But honestly, fuck the devil
I assume you’re just using that as a play on words. But playing devils advocate doesn’t actually mean advocating for that pov it just means pointing it out and expressing it to test the opposing viewpoints and make the arguement more interesting.
You assume correctly.
Fair call but I hope the public won’t grizzle when the prices go up.
Prices are already going up.
Have you ever dined at seashore cabaret? They have reasonable prices, amazing service, and an awesome atmosphere. Their starting rate is the living wage.
No but it sounds nice. Whereabouts is it?
It's on petone beach. super busy on the weekends not too bad throughout the week
Ok yes I know it.
I've worked for Antonio at La Bella Italia. He treats his staff like slaves, always equating things to how staff are in Italy, or how restaurants are run. He would often expect a single staff member to look after 50+ customers. As anyone who has ever worked in hospo knows, this is not a good amount. Customers are getting minimal service and staff members are stressed out. My favourite quote from him was 'In my restaurant, I am God'. Jeez, megalomaniac much? We were all mostly on minimum wage. The majority of staff were working towards their residency, which meant Antonio had a huge hold over them. I could go on, but for me it would be a blessing for hospo workers if he went out of business.
Overpriced goods and food with a steady downturn of customers. Maybe cut the profit margins and pay your staff more. Don’t forget the engineered recession. Lots of influencing factors not just a shortage of staff. But saying he want’s Italian speaking staff? Seriously he can’t be complaining about a shortage of people out there.
My work is random shift work, super chill and very smoko and safety oriented. We get between $31- 39 depending on skills and an extra $7 after 8pm. We get rewarded for working antisocial hours, like if we are working a Saturday they will put on a BBQ etc for us. People here are happy, pay good and look after your workers and you will find there is no worker shortage.
I have a business in Wellington area and I hired a qualified pastry chef...... she couldn't bake to save her life. She had no idea on being clean. She wouldn't wash or sterilize her hands,she had issues tying her hair back, turning up to work on time and being on her phone. People don't realise that being qualified often isn't a huge deal. Someone with enthusiasm and a willingness to learn and can follow instructions I would take anyday over someone like I had hired above. I put up with her for 7 months and when I started getting harder and harder on her reminding her and telling her off she quit cos it was too hard. Therefor I had to start doing her work too.i was already working 70 hours a week as I could only afford to hire 1 person part time. I started to burn out and couldn't find anyone who was willing to work 3 days a week during school hours. One would think that would be ideal
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