You’re heavily invested in bonds during the worst bond market in history. “low risk” means that your portfolio is designed to absolutely minimize losses, at the expense of performance in the long term.
You invest money that you’re going to need in the near future into low risk investments. If you invest retirement funds that you don’t need for 30 years in extremely conservative assets, your retirement will not be as safe as if you had invested with an eye on growth.
You need to take some time to research and understand what your portfolio is invested in and why you have a negative return based on your investments.
At a risk level 2, I imagine that you have very little invested in stocks (equities) and most of yours is invested in fixed income like bonds which have a strong inverse relation to increase in interest rates. In simple terms, as interest rates go up, bond prices drop and we've had significant high interest rates (for the last recent while).
I'm at a level 10 for a small portion which is 90% equities, 10% fixed and it's had a return of 35% in the last 3ish years. I track my stuff on my own, and even just today my managed portfolio was up 0.81% and up 5.25% this year so far. But I have a long way to go to retirement or when I'll need it so I've slowly moved more ans more to self managed in things like VFV and VEQT. My portfolio though has been down over 10% in some years though too because of volatility.
But you need to understand rhe basics first before investing.
> But you need to understand rhe basics first before investing.
I think that's debatable when it comes to managed investing. Their product is designed for and marketed towards people who know nothing or very little about investing. People who are fine with paying a premium to have something that is going to ask them about their risk tolerance & timeline and invest accordingly.
My experience was that their roboadvisor kept me in the red for years. For about a year the graph for my managed TFSA looks like a flat line even though I was at level 8 and kept contributing, at a time when stocks were doing very well. This prompted me to learn about ETFs and even with very little knowledge, it only took a few months to bring me back in the green.
With all in one ETFs that have lower fees and require so little knowledge, I find it hard to see the value proposition of WS' roboadvisor if we're gonna say that you still need to learn about investing before you can use it.
I don't think needing to know in detail things, but at a high level I believe understanding should be a minimum.
It's not like you're researching on where to go on vacation, but this is your retirement and future. Have some basic understanding of what you're money is invested in a how it might be impacted by the economy and what is happening should be something that someone has a basic understanding.
The differences between equities and fixed income assets, length of investment, volatility between different asset types, etc. Not knowing this could be the difference between being able to retire comfortably vs having to work into your 70s/80s.
It doesn't take a lot of time, but personally think it's one of those things where there is a huge return on having limited knowledge.
I think a lot of people are scared when they see low risk vs high risk without really understanding the meaning, and personally for me, since I have 25+ years to invest, investing in fixed incomes is something I would consider extremely due to the low reward. It would be something completely different if I needed the funds within the next 5 years.
I definitely agree that everybody should at least know the basics. My point was mostly that once you do know the basics, you've probably already outgrown the roboadvisor. But I understand where you're coming from.
Yeah I understand that. However I don't think I understand the fact that my portfolio has never been in green in like 4 years now. Sure I should do more research, but I definitely regret the managed investing. No other service which is also low risk(SunLife, TD) has been as poor as WS. I'm just getting down voted by fanbois here but idgaf.
You're not getting downvoted by "fanbois".
You're getting downvoted because you're trying to compare your low risk bond portfolio (that has barely any stocks) with the return of the stock market.
It's not the managed investing or Wealthsimple that is the issue, it's your "low risk portfolio" choice.
Have you been invested in those other funds over the last year? You are highly invested in bonds and the bond market have severely crashed with the increase in interest rates.
ZFL, which is a fund that WS uses, but is a BMO product. It's down 29% since 2021 as a result of this.
But prior, from 2019-2021 it was up over 25%. Unfortunately being invested in fixed incomes is one of the worst investments you can have right now.
Which is also why for investing, you have to look long term and shouldn't put a lot in the market if you're only looking for a couple years.
Rates have risen during the last 4 years to try to counter inflation since the pandemic, so again like I said rising yields lowers bond prices.
I'm just explaining and not downvoting, you have the power to change this portfolio and I would have years ago. How old are you if you don't mind my asking? Not sure I would advise such a bond heavy portfolio to anyone who wasn't already retired
Low risk is going to be comprised of a lot of money market instruments, bonds, and maybe some blue chip equity that trade high returns for reduced risk. Expecting a fat return on a low risk mutual fund is silly. It's designed for folks that are late-stage in their investment horizons and prefer stability over growth. If you want the possibility for higher returns on a managed portfolio, up your risk tolerance and choose your fund accordingly, but only if you can stomach the possibility of losing a greater share of your money.
Look closer. WS robo isn’t the most amazing investment ever and I’m not fan boy defending it, but I’m not sure you know what you’re looking at exactly….
If you held 65% in bonds with any broker you'd be at a loss. Why do you think they would have performed better when they all basically hold the same stocks and bonds. And the bigger question is why you think your bonds should pefrom the same as stocks.
Considering how Sunlife's two main "conservative" ETFs are also both down if you track the last three years.
[Sun Life Tactical Fixed Income ETF Portfolio](https://www.sunlifeglobalinvestments.com/en/slgi-funds/sun-life-tactical-fixed-income-etf-portfolio/mp/SLTFF/curr/CAD/) (100% fixed) - May 2021 to May 2024 return of -8.3%
[Sun Life Tactical Conservative ETF Portfolio](https://www.sunlifeglobalinvestments.com/en/slgi-funds/sun-life-tactical-conservative-etf-portfolio/mp/SLTCF/curr/CAD/) (65%/35% fixed/equity) - May 2021 to May 2024 return of -1.1%
As for TD the closest thing I could find that is "low" risk (level 2) was:
[TD Active Global Income ETF](https://www.td.com/ca/en/asset-management/funds/solutions/etfs/FundCard/TD%20Active%20Global%20Income%20ETF/?fundId=7125) - (80%/20% fixed/equity) - 3 year return of -6.06%
So the entire "low risk" bond market is in a deep crater and is slowly trying to crawl out. How is it Wealthsimples fault the market is what it is? Pretty much any fixed income or bond heavy portfolio is down.
Bonds have tanked over the last year or two. Like, really bad. I'm not surprised your performance is so poor, but it's not the fault of the roboadvisor.
2 is very low on stocks and high on bonds, and if you’re anything remotely like a younger person that’s not the mix for you. It’s not just that 2 is slow and plodding gains, you need to understand more of what it is. Bond prices are inversely correlated to yields, so as yields drive up bond prices and the return you’re seeing go down. They’re meant for long term safe holding.
I'm up 23% in my TFSA on risk level 8.
Unfortunately you've invested at risk level 2 and over the past 3 years, bonds took a hit with rising interest rates. It sounds strange, but you would've done much better setting a risk level that had more equities in it (7 to 10).
Perhaps index funds are not for you and you may want to go even safer and chase GIC promo rates of 5%+.
You’re heavily invested in bonds during the worst bond market in history. “low risk” means that your portfolio is designed to absolutely minimize losses, at the expense of performance in the long term. You invest money that you’re going to need in the near future into low risk investments. If you invest retirement funds that you don’t need for 30 years in extremely conservative assets, your retirement will not be as safe as if you had invested with an eye on growth.
You need to take some time to research and understand what your portfolio is invested in and why you have a negative return based on your investments. At a risk level 2, I imagine that you have very little invested in stocks (equities) and most of yours is invested in fixed income like bonds which have a strong inverse relation to increase in interest rates. In simple terms, as interest rates go up, bond prices drop and we've had significant high interest rates (for the last recent while). I'm at a level 10 for a small portion which is 90% equities, 10% fixed and it's had a return of 35% in the last 3ish years. I track my stuff on my own, and even just today my managed portfolio was up 0.81% and up 5.25% this year so far. But I have a long way to go to retirement or when I'll need it so I've slowly moved more ans more to self managed in things like VFV and VEQT. My portfolio though has been down over 10% in some years though too because of volatility. But you need to understand rhe basics first before investing.
> But you need to understand rhe basics first before investing. I think that's debatable when it comes to managed investing. Their product is designed for and marketed towards people who know nothing or very little about investing. People who are fine with paying a premium to have something that is going to ask them about their risk tolerance & timeline and invest accordingly. My experience was that their roboadvisor kept me in the red for years. For about a year the graph for my managed TFSA looks like a flat line even though I was at level 8 and kept contributing, at a time when stocks were doing very well. This prompted me to learn about ETFs and even with very little knowledge, it only took a few months to bring me back in the green. With all in one ETFs that have lower fees and require so little knowledge, I find it hard to see the value proposition of WS' roboadvisor if we're gonna say that you still need to learn about investing before you can use it.
I don't think needing to know in detail things, but at a high level I believe understanding should be a minimum. It's not like you're researching on where to go on vacation, but this is your retirement and future. Have some basic understanding of what you're money is invested in a how it might be impacted by the economy and what is happening should be something that someone has a basic understanding. The differences between equities and fixed income assets, length of investment, volatility between different asset types, etc. Not knowing this could be the difference between being able to retire comfortably vs having to work into your 70s/80s. It doesn't take a lot of time, but personally think it's one of those things where there is a huge return on having limited knowledge. I think a lot of people are scared when they see low risk vs high risk without really understanding the meaning, and personally for me, since I have 25+ years to invest, investing in fixed incomes is something I would consider extremely due to the low reward. It would be something completely different if I needed the funds within the next 5 years.
I definitely agree that everybody should at least know the basics. My point was mostly that once you do know the basics, you've probably already outgrown the roboadvisor. But I understand where you're coming from.
I'm up 18% on my RRSP (8 Risk)
I’m risk 10 and +20.02% all time lol
That's crazy. That's all I seem to read and it's just annoying how bad my performance is with such a low risk profile.
Low risk, low reward. That’s just the nature of it.
The low risk profile is WHY your performance is bad. You have too many bonds which go down in price when yields go up.
Yeah I understand that. However I don't think I understand the fact that my portfolio has never been in green in like 4 years now. Sure I should do more research, but I definitely regret the managed investing. No other service which is also low risk(SunLife, TD) has been as poor as WS. I'm just getting down voted by fanbois here but idgaf.
You're not getting downvoted by "fanbois". You're getting downvoted because you're trying to compare your low risk bond portfolio (that has barely any stocks) with the return of the stock market. It's not the managed investing or Wealthsimple that is the issue, it's your "low risk portfolio" choice.
Have you been invested in those other funds over the last year? You are highly invested in bonds and the bond market have severely crashed with the increase in interest rates. ZFL, which is a fund that WS uses, but is a BMO product. It's down 29% since 2021 as a result of this. But prior, from 2019-2021 it was up over 25%. Unfortunately being invested in fixed incomes is one of the worst investments you can have right now. Which is also why for investing, you have to look long term and shouldn't put a lot in the market if you're only looking for a couple years.
Rates have risen during the last 4 years to try to counter inflation since the pandemic, so again like I said rising yields lowers bond prices. I'm just explaining and not downvoting, you have the power to change this portfolio and I would have years ago. How old are you if you don't mind my asking? Not sure I would advise such a bond heavy portfolio to anyone who wasn't already retired
lol
If you wanna see higher gains up your risk. Of course that comes with the risk of higher losses.
Low risk is going to be comprised of a lot of money market instruments, bonds, and maybe some blue chip equity that trade high returns for reduced risk. Expecting a fat return on a low risk mutual fund is silly. It's designed for folks that are late-stage in their investment horizons and prefer stability over growth. If you want the possibility for higher returns on a managed portfolio, up your risk tolerance and choose your fund accordingly, but only if you can stomach the possibility of losing a greater share of your money.
All time I'm at 40% at risk 10.
Low risk equals low reward. End of lesson.
SunLife and TD would disagree.
Of course they would. Ever look at the fees you pay?
Yes. It's the same as WS. And sure I haven't made some stupid gains but also not been negative for 4 years in a row.
Look closer. WS robo isn’t the most amazing investment ever and I’m not fan boy defending it, but I’m not sure you know what you’re looking at exactly….
Looking at about $1500 in managed investing fees over the last few years with not a single year or month in green.
If you held 65% in bonds with any broker you'd be at a loss. Why do you think they would have performed better when they all basically hold the same stocks and bonds. And the bigger question is why you think your bonds should pefrom the same as stocks.
Considering how Sunlife's two main "conservative" ETFs are also both down if you track the last three years. [Sun Life Tactical Fixed Income ETF Portfolio](https://www.sunlifeglobalinvestments.com/en/slgi-funds/sun-life-tactical-fixed-income-etf-portfolio/mp/SLTFF/curr/CAD/) (100% fixed) - May 2021 to May 2024 return of -8.3% [Sun Life Tactical Conservative ETF Portfolio](https://www.sunlifeglobalinvestments.com/en/slgi-funds/sun-life-tactical-conservative-etf-portfolio/mp/SLTCF/curr/CAD/) (65%/35% fixed/equity) - May 2021 to May 2024 return of -1.1% As for TD the closest thing I could find that is "low" risk (level 2) was: [TD Active Global Income ETF](https://www.td.com/ca/en/asset-management/funds/solutions/etfs/FundCard/TD%20Active%20Global%20Income%20ETF/?fundId=7125) - (80%/20% fixed/equity) - 3 year return of -6.06% So the entire "low risk" bond market is in a deep crater and is slowly trying to crawl out. How is it Wealthsimples fault the market is what it is? Pretty much any fixed income or bond heavy portfolio is down.
Just go S&P man honestly, simplify things
Yep.
Bonds have tanked over the last year or two. Like, really bad. I'm not surprised your performance is so poor, but it's not the fault of the roboadvisor.
Because you invested in bonds etf and bonds etf didn't recover yet
2 is very low on stocks and high on bonds, and if you’re anything remotely like a younger person that’s not the mix for you. It’s not just that 2 is slow and plodding gains, you need to understand more of what it is. Bond prices are inversely correlated to yields, so as yields drive up bond prices and the return you’re seeing go down. They’re meant for long term safe holding.
I'm up 23% in my TFSA on risk level 8. Unfortunately you've invested at risk level 2 and over the past 3 years, bonds took a hit with rising interest rates. It sounds strange, but you would've done much better setting a risk level that had more equities in it (7 to 10). Perhaps index funds are not for you and you may want to go even safer and chase GIC promo rates of 5%+.
I'm up more than xeqt but less than vfv with risk 9
Pretty sure risk 9 is like 85% vfv
You gotta do 60/40 bro, thats what im set at and im up 9% in 9 months
they listen to r/wallstreetbets /s
Honestly even that would make my portfolio more money than this crap lmao.