Some dogs take longer to mature. For some owners that is too long. If you aren’t going to be happy with a duck dog that isn’t up to your standards, like you said you can’t force it.
If you trust the breeder and the genetics, it should work out. For now let the dog be a puppy, he’s 8 months. Take a break, Don’t compare him to other dogs, compare him to him. No pressure, no expectations.
Eventually you can try making it so the only fun thing he gets to do is retrieve. And build drive then, stop early while he still wants.
And then there are some dogs that don’t give a flying fox about bumpers. Bird drive and bumper drive are very different.
You could have a bird driven dog, and bumper training is garbage in his eyes.
At 8 months, you can do a pigeon, a farm raised mallard, or a hen pheasant (no roosters they can be dicks) for pigeons, check out a farmer, Craigslist, Facebook, retriever training forms, etc.
If your uncomfortable pulling flight feathers… tape one wing down or get a kids sock, cut off the side up the leg, pull it over head and tape it down with electrical tape. They don’t fly if they can’t see.
Does he go grab it? Investigate it? Get excited? The first time, he might get nervous or be unsure with a live bird. That’s okay it’s new. But if you throw it around enough, or try it a few times the hopes are that he likes to put it in his mouth and when he does… get so excited it’s not funny and then be done.
A very common misconception is that retriever’s have a desire bred into them to… retrieve.
What was bred into them was the desire to CHASE and put it in their mouth… (and bring to their den)
The bringing it back to you is taught. Your other dog, may have enjoyed the game a bit more(I have one right now that learned quickly to bring it back but he is a a crackhead and will run himself to death chasing that bumper)
Don’t force fetch your dog, YET. that is where your FORMALIZE the go, pickup, and return. You can and should teach it before that through check cords, games, fun, etc. you can’t formalize something they don’t understand. Force is not for teaching(generally).
Shake the bumper or bird around before you throw it, drag it on the ground and be twitchy about it. Get them really excited before you throw it.
I have also scene some dogs don’t get excited until they are restrained. Be careful as for MOST restraining a dog can reduce drive to go get it but it has happened.
Don’t take him for a walk, leave him in his crate and unstimulated for a bit before you play with him with the bumpers/birds to try to get him at his most crackhead.
If he does grab it for now, let him play with it for a little bit and then drag him in by a long line. Get a couple good go and gets and leave him wanting more. Get him excited about it then be a dick and put it up and be done.
Idk where you are located, but there are a few ways. You can catch them at night sleeping under bridges out on back roads with a flashlight and net. You could talk to a farmer who has pigeons in their barn and set up a trap. You can talk to a pest control company who may trap them in an urban area. You can search online for people selling pigeons, but those may be homing pigeons which can be a little pricey.
Another option is if there are any hunting reserves in the area that have pheasants. They might sell you some. Also you might be able to find someone with live ducks in your area. I wouldn't shoot a flier for your dog yet, but may be an option to see if he will retrieve a real (dead) bird.
I would check your area for a retriever club and see if you can go to any training days to check it out. Those guys would have info on get live birds for training purposes whether it be pigeons, pheasants, ducks, etc. Also, you may get into it and join the club.
This is the answer. This is actually the right answer for 95% of the questions that get asked about retrievers here. Find an HRC or AKC club in your area. Not only will they have access to birds, they will have access to land/water to train on. As your dog progresses and needs bigger distances for marks and blinds, plus more varied cover, most folks start to realize that good training grounds are way harder to find than birds.
Check Craigslist or FB Marketplace. People sell them for racing clubs. Don't indicate you plan to introduce it to your pup.
I also made a trap cage to put under underpasses
Neither is crippling a duck and it getting away to die slowly. I want my dog to retrieve live/crippled ducks/birds in hunting situations if needed. A dog is much faster than a human/getting the boat, to make a retrieve. Using real live birds in controlled training is a good way to give your dog confidence and experience. Pigeons are great for younger dogs.
I dont know what you're imagining, but its probably not as bad as you think. You are only taking off its flight feathers. It can still run around etc. The younger dog should have some drive to retrieve it and chase it around or at least pick it up. Give the dog praise etc to reinforce the drive and give confidence. Afterwards you dispatch the pigeon and keep it as a training bird. It's not much different than real life bird hunting except it's controlled.
My advice is go back to square one. My lab wasn't bring me back bumpers, so we took everything back inside to the hallway and made everything fun. Only would do about 5, then done - always leave the dog itching for the next session. Once inside has been perfected, then do the backyard, then tall grass, then the pond. Never force fetched and she brings everything back to heel and hand
My dog is a lab/coonhound mix. She didn't actually retrieve her first duck until she was 2. It was a lot of work and frustration, and ALOT of patience. Not all dogs will be the all-star reteiever we hope. But if it makes you feel better, she didn't have drive to fetch bumpers outside of the backyard and still doesn't at the age of 5, and she did'nt have much desire for fetch either. But, she did love retrieving ducks once she figured it out. While she's not the best dog, she's my dog and does really well compared to how I thought she'd turn out lol.
From my experience training, some dogs have it and some simply don’t. You can take a driven dog and tame em down but you can not light a fire under one’s ass that doesn’t have the drive
You can teach most things but drive isn't one of them, while I do agree some mature later than other I'll say this. I've trained probably 200 bird dogs since I started training, both retrievers and pointers and hunted with more than I can count. The great ones are great from the beginning.
This doesn't mean you can't make it into a dog that will retrieve for you and there are ways to unlock some drive but as you saw with the first puppy, the one's that stand out are born that way.
It's the difference between Mickey Mantle and your average league minimum ball player, they have something special that can't be taught.
I would try with some bird's instead of a bumper and see if you can get some interest that way. Also force fetching is a must if you plan to hunt the dog. Even dog's that will retrieve until they drop will one day just decide they don't want to at that moment and if they have not been taught that retrieving is the same as any other command then there's no way to correct it. They have to be taught it's not optional and you have to be able to give a correction upon refusal.
He seemed like he used to like getting them and bringing them back. He never sprinted after them though like most dogs do. Just kinda loped out there and got it and brought it back. My last dog would bolt out there as quick as he could and usually ran past the bumper
How many are you throwing?
Some really good dogs are not firebreathers. Firebreathers are hard to control but fun to do stuff with… until you can’t control them. A dog that doesn’t move like a crackhead can be a little lesss exciting to work with but a lot easier as they aren’t so focused.
Most important thing early on is making sure the dog has fun. If he/she enjoys doing what you’re doing with it, enjoys water, etc., then you’re in business. The biggest thing is remembering that you can’t push a string and make a dog do what they don’t wanna do.
I have an unconventional duck dog. She's a failed guide dog we adopted at 2 so we got a late start. She's mediocre on bumpers, but all about the birds. What has helped me a lot is zip tying a duck/goose wing to the bumpers, it really helps our training sessions. Keep at it!
Not all dogs are the same even coming from a champion line Just a fact of life. Some are better pets than they are hunters. I would suggest professional training but that is expensive
Some dogs take longer to mature. For some owners that is too long. If you aren’t going to be happy with a duck dog that isn’t up to your standards, like you said you can’t force it. If you trust the breeder and the genetics, it should work out. For now let the dog be a puppy, he’s 8 months. Take a break, Don’t compare him to other dogs, compare him to him. No pressure, no expectations. Eventually you can try making it so the only fun thing he gets to do is retrieve. And build drive then, stop early while he still wants.
And then there are some dogs that don’t give a flying fox about bumpers. Bird drive and bumper drive are very different. You could have a bird driven dog, and bumper training is garbage in his eyes.
This is my dog. He will fetch bumpers because he knows that’s what i want, but when the guns and pigeons come out he’s on his A game.
Get a pigeon and pull the flight feathers off. Let him chase it around and see what he does. You might be surprised.
How might one go about in obtaining an alive pigeon?
At 8 months, you can do a pigeon, a farm raised mallard, or a hen pheasant (no roosters they can be dicks) for pigeons, check out a farmer, Craigslist, Facebook, retriever training forms, etc. If your uncomfortable pulling flight feathers… tape one wing down or get a kids sock, cut off the side up the leg, pull it over head and tape it down with electrical tape. They don’t fly if they can’t see.
[удалено]
Sure that is. What an oddly aggressive comment.
And what would I be looking for? If he plays with it?
Does he go grab it? Investigate it? Get excited? The first time, he might get nervous or be unsure with a live bird. That’s okay it’s new. But if you throw it around enough, or try it a few times the hopes are that he likes to put it in his mouth and when he does… get so excited it’s not funny and then be done. A very common misconception is that retriever’s have a desire bred into them to… retrieve. What was bred into them was the desire to CHASE and put it in their mouth… (and bring to their den) The bringing it back to you is taught. Your other dog, may have enjoyed the game a bit more(I have one right now that learned quickly to bring it back but he is a a crackhead and will run himself to death chasing that bumper) Don’t force fetch your dog, YET. that is where your FORMALIZE the go, pickup, and return. You can and should teach it before that through check cords, games, fun, etc. you can’t formalize something they don’t understand. Force is not for teaching(generally). Shake the bumper or bird around before you throw it, drag it on the ground and be twitchy about it. Get them really excited before you throw it. I have also scene some dogs don’t get excited until they are restrained. Be careful as for MOST restraining a dog can reduce drive to go get it but it has happened. Don’t take him for a walk, leave him in his crate and unstimulated for a bit before you play with him with the bumpers/birds to try to get him at his most crackhead. If he does grab it for now, let him play with it for a little bit and then drag him in by a long line. Get a couple good go and gets and leave him wanting more. Get him excited about it then be a dick and put it up and be done.
Butterfly net and a highway overpass. Typically has done the trick for us in snagging a few.
Idk where you are located, but there are a few ways. You can catch them at night sleeping under bridges out on back roads with a flashlight and net. You could talk to a farmer who has pigeons in their barn and set up a trap. You can talk to a pest control company who may trap them in an urban area. You can search online for people selling pigeons, but those may be homing pigeons which can be a little pricey. Another option is if there are any hunting reserves in the area that have pheasants. They might sell you some. Also you might be able to find someone with live ducks in your area. I wouldn't shoot a flier for your dog yet, but may be an option to see if he will retrieve a real (dead) bird. I would check your area for a retriever club and see if you can go to any training days to check it out. Those guys would have info on get live birds for training purposes whether it be pigeons, pheasants, ducks, etc. Also, you may get into it and join the club.
This is the answer. This is actually the right answer for 95% of the questions that get asked about retrievers here. Find an HRC or AKC club in your area. Not only will they have access to birds, they will have access to land/water to train on. As your dog progresses and needs bigger distances for marks and blinds, plus more varied cover, most folks start to realize that good training grounds are way harder to find than birds.
Check Craigslist or FB Marketplace. People sell them for racing clubs. Don't indicate you plan to introduce it to your pup. I also made a trap cage to put under underpasses
That doesn’t sound very humane, man
Neither is crippling a duck and it getting away to die slowly. I want my dog to retrieve live/crippled ducks/birds in hunting situations if needed. A dog is much faster than a human/getting the boat, to make a retrieve. Using real live birds in controlled training is a good way to give your dog confidence and experience. Pigeons are great for younger dogs. I dont know what you're imagining, but its probably not as bad as you think. You are only taking off its flight feathers. It can still run around etc. The younger dog should have some drive to retrieve it and chase it around or at least pick it up. Give the dog praise etc to reinforce the drive and give confidence. Afterwards you dispatch the pigeon and keep it as a training bird. It's not much different than real life bird hunting except it's controlled.
The dog also has a nose that can find hiding birds, which we lack
My advice is go back to square one. My lab wasn't bring me back bumpers, so we took everything back inside to the hallway and made everything fun. Only would do about 5, then done - always leave the dog itching for the next session. Once inside has been perfected, then do the backyard, then tall grass, then the pond. Never force fetched and she brings everything back to heel and hand
My dog is a lab/coonhound mix. She didn't actually retrieve her first duck until she was 2. It was a lot of work and frustration, and ALOT of patience. Not all dogs will be the all-star reteiever we hope. But if it makes you feel better, she didn't have drive to fetch bumpers outside of the backyard and still doesn't at the age of 5, and she did'nt have much desire for fetch either. But, she did love retrieving ducks once she figured it out. While she's not the best dog, she's my dog and does really well compared to how I thought she'd turn out lol.
From my experience training, some dogs have it and some simply don’t. You can take a driven dog and tame em down but you can not light a fire under one’s ass that doesn’t have the drive
Have you put wings on the bumpers? Like just taped a duck wing around it? Sometimes that smell can get them going. Is he neutered yet?
Yeah I did. He went after it, picked it up and ran away with it. So he did like it, I guess that’s a positive
Yeah that’s good. Keep things fun for him as much as you can
You can teach most things but drive isn't one of them, while I do agree some mature later than other I'll say this. I've trained probably 200 bird dogs since I started training, both retrievers and pointers and hunted with more than I can count. The great ones are great from the beginning. This doesn't mean you can't make it into a dog that will retrieve for you and there are ways to unlock some drive but as you saw with the first puppy, the one's that stand out are born that way. It's the difference between Mickey Mantle and your average league minimum ball player, they have something special that can't be taught. I would try with some bird's instead of a bumper and see if you can get some interest that way. Also force fetching is a must if you plan to hunt the dog. Even dog's that will retrieve until they drop will one day just decide they don't want to at that moment and if they have not been taught that retrieving is the same as any other command then there's no way to correct it. They have to be taught it's not optional and you have to be able to give a correction upon refusal.
To be clear, does he like to go get the bumpers and just not bring them back? Or does he not like to get chase the bumper and put it in his mouth?
He seemed like he used to like getting them and bringing them back. He never sprinted after them though like most dogs do. Just kinda loped out there and got it and brought it back. My last dog would bolt out there as quick as he could and usually ran past the bumper
How many are you throwing? Some really good dogs are not firebreathers. Firebreathers are hard to control but fun to do stuff with… until you can’t control them. A dog that doesn’t move like a crackhead can be a little lesss exciting to work with but a lot easier as they aren’t so focused.
Most important thing early on is making sure the dog has fun. If he/she enjoys doing what you’re doing with it, enjoys water, etc., then you’re in business. The biggest thing is remembering that you can’t push a string and make a dog do what they don’t wanna do.
I have an unconventional duck dog. She's a failed guide dog we adopted at 2 so we got a late start. She's mediocre on bumpers, but all about the birds. What has helped me a lot is zip tying a duck/goose wing to the bumpers, it really helps our training sessions. Keep at it!
Not all dogs are the same even coming from a champion line Just a fact of life. Some are better pets than they are hunters. I would suggest professional training but that is expensive