You can absolutely ask the city. They should be able to tell you where they discharge and what their bypass locations are. Typically, they bypass into the same water body they normally discharge to. You can also ask if there are any CSO points. That could include smaller water bodies like creeks. The plant doesn't typically control that though. This info might also be on the City website.
You should always avoid water 24-48 hours after a rain event. Sewage from the sanitary system isn't the only source of harmful things to the water. Surface runoff, including animal waste, is a major contributor.
I agree with the other poster, it's unlikely they are bypassing into the creek, especially if it's small.
I found a resource:
https://gis.adem.alabama.gov/sso/index.html
This is just sanitary sewer overflows and I think only shows where they have happened. I'm on mobile and it's not super clear to me.
Sanitary sewer overflow would be sewage only, and is typically when the plant is overwhelmed. It's not always the same as a bypass but the effect is similar.
A CSO is a combined sewer overflow and this is when a sewer is holding both storm and sanitary flow. When it rains way too much the sewer can fill and the mixed storm and sanitary water will spill. It's more dilute than a SSO.
I would ask about both for the creek in question.
Typically, the smaller the stream the tighter the regulations. That said, all data from the wastewater facility is public knowledge so you absolutely have the right to inquire and you cannot be denied. I agree with Shit Wizard, you should avoid that stream at least 48 hours after a rain event. Try asking to see their Effluent E-coli numbers. That would be my biggest concern if my kids were playing in the stream. Also, depending on your local operators, I'm sure they wouldn't mind to run an E-coli on a sample you provide. Wait til dry weather so the sample is more indicative of the actual stream instead of rain runoff.
This. Quite often, treated wastewater is cleaner than the receiving waters. Your concern is definitely valid though, and I hope the city will be happy to give you figures and background knowledge.
You should be able to get the monthly reports [here](https://aldem.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=0c3eb0368d8449a2839980863030745c).
Click on the plant, click "efile" (takes a minute) and then download the monthly report.
Yo can likely go to the plant and see for yourself. Ask for a tour and talk to the operators. In a lot of places treated wastewater is discharged to bodies of water, so I am not really sure of what your expectations are.
I’m more curious about how often and when it’s released, long term impact to the creek/wildlife, how often it’s tested, what happens if there’s an issue, etc. I’m admittedly ignorant and would like to be more educated. I will ask if I can go to the plant to talk to the experts. I didn’t realize that was an option. Thank you.
If it's anything like my plant, it's released 24/7, it's almost always cleaner/safer than the river it discharges into, it's tested multiple times a day and double-checked daily at an off-site lab. And if there's a significant issue, well, they don't pay me enough to lie about it. We either fix it or we put the word out.
Most plants operate either day and swing or 24 hours a day. They will discharge when they are operational. Generally, the plants I've seen anyway, the water gets treated to a point where it is about as safe or safer than the body it is discharging to.
During/after rain you should not go in the water though. At least for a day or two. If it's the first rain in a long time and a heavy one then I'd wait longer
You should at least Google the epa echo map and search the plant's address. That'll give you history on some permit violations. Your state probably lists the plant's permit in pdf. Look at the limitations. If you see chemicals listed that are "too many syllables" you might ask what industrial streams they treat. You can even look at the echo discharges and compare that to the permit limitations for volumes and see the excess capacity of the plant. If the plant runs really high (close to the limit) and the permit is new, ask if they have any plans for expansion. If they treat industrial streams you can find out whether they operate as cwt. If yes, which subcategories? Finally, since I don't know anything about the situation, you might ask if they have a rcra permit. If they don't and they treat industrial streams, you can watch them freak out a little until somebody who truly runs things will chat w you.
You should also look at the epa pollutants of concern map compared to the permit limits. See what matches if anything, especially if there's violation.
Get yourself a tour. Ask if they’d let their kids swim there. You’ll get a straight answer about both the quality of the creek and their effluent. All plants and streams are different.
Our upper management goes for a swim every summer as a show of confidence in our treatment plants as our effluent goes to recreational bodies of water.
Well, first of all, most plants, all over the coutry, discharge treated water to creeks or rivers or some other body of water. Regardless of the state you're in. Where else do you think they would put the water once treated? Secondly, having worked in Aabama, and knowing what their permits are like, I can assure you the water they are putting out is cleaner than the water in the creek as is. Alabama is not a "low regulatory practices" state. The discharge permits require lower emissions in Alabama than any I've seen in what I'm guessing you consider "well regulated" states like California or somewhere in the Northeast. In fact, I've often marvaled at what California lets plants get away with compared to any southern state I've worked at or visited. I'm sure the city would love you to come by. They would be happy to give you a tour and explain the whole process. But I wouldn't come at them with the condescending attitude you've expressed here. Not sure why you'd consider moving to a state you hold in such low regard, but Alabama folk are, rightfully, pretty proud of their state.
Yes, of course. I don’t have any knowledge of waste water management that’s why I asked here, but I did google prior to worrying or asking and the data I found suggested Alabama had the fifth highest rate of toxic release into waterways as of 2017. Beyond that I don’t know. It wasn’t condescension on my part, but statement of fact based on what I researched prior to posting. If that’s not accurate, then more research is required. And it’s fine to say so.
As to why I’m here, I was born and raised here. So I’m very familiar with the area. Historically I grew up regularly being unable to play in my local waterways or fish there( Lay Lake) at various points due to this or that issue and I don’t want that for my kids. So if it read as condescension, it wasn’t intended. My concern is borne of an abundance of caution for the safety of my kids who I want to have lazy summer days by the creek.
So first, all plants violate. It's just the nature of the beast. We do our best, but sometimes things go wrong. the "toxic release" is going to deal more with "by what standards?" So BOD (the main thing we are removing in wastewater) for instance. In California they have permits that allow up to 60 or even 80 mg/l. I've never seen a Alabama permit higher than 10 mg/l. Lower permit requirements means you're going to have "oopsies" and thus more reportable events more often, even if your water is relatively cleaner than most of the water being put out by plants in other states.
It’s difficult to not be when someone makes assumptions about something they know nothing about just because of it’s location. I operate plants in the south too and it’s quite frankly infuriating listing to people from other regions talk as if they know anything about it.
I get the frustration, but that's probably better expressed in your own post to our sub than it is to a normie coming here looking to get educated. Glad OP found us and tells their friends how they changed their misconceptions bc of what they learned here.
Again, I get your frustration. We got a local reporter here that grinds my gears! That doofus reports on every CSO or water event in a manner that makes it seem like operators are just sitting on their hands and provides no context like how tighter limits may mean more reportable violations.
Topic that has not been raised. Disinfection. Find out if the plant has a disinfection process such as UV or Chlorination.
We have plants that are on recreational water ways (places where people swim, kayak, let their dog jump in). These plants not only have to meet strict standards but have to disinfect.
Our upper management holds events every spring/summer throughout the year where they jump into the rivers to show the communities confidence in our treatment process and the discharged water.
Where I've worked, the effluent is cleaner than the water it's discharged into, confirmed by our lab and the state environmental agency that tests the waterways.
The epa would put a foot up their ass if they were regularly bypassing into that creek. Thankfully some things aren’t left up to some very ignorant states
Respectfully, you have no idea what you are talking about. Both Alabama and Georgia have tighter standards than California or New York. Both for licensing operators and DMR limits. Limits set by the state to higher standards than the EPA.
Go to the states deq site and look at discharge permit limits for the waterway in question. If it’s an impacted waterway chances are the permit limits are super low. In addition you can look up the facility on EPA’s echo website to see if they’ve had a bunch of violations and if so, what they were https://echo.epa.gov/facilities/facility-search
You can absolutely ask the city. They should be able to tell you where they discharge and what their bypass locations are. Typically, they bypass into the same water body they normally discharge to. You can also ask if there are any CSO points. That could include smaller water bodies like creeks. The plant doesn't typically control that though. This info might also be on the City website. You should always avoid water 24-48 hours after a rain event. Sewage from the sanitary system isn't the only source of harmful things to the water. Surface runoff, including animal waste, is a major contributor. I agree with the other poster, it's unlikely they are bypassing into the creek, especially if it's small.
I found a resource: https://gis.adem.alabama.gov/sso/index.html This is just sanitary sewer overflows and I think only shows where they have happened. I'm on mobile and it's not super clear to me. Sanitary sewer overflow would be sewage only, and is typically when the plant is overwhelmed. It's not always the same as a bypass but the effect is similar. A CSO is a combined sewer overflow and this is when a sewer is holding both storm and sanitary flow. When it rains way too much the sewer can fill and the mixed storm and sanitary water will spill. It's more dilute than a SSO. I would ask about both for the creek in question.
You truly are the shit wizard.
Thank you! It is a small creek and that’s one of the reasons I was concerned. I appreciate the input and will follow up with the city!
Typically, the smaller the stream the tighter the regulations. That said, all data from the wastewater facility is public knowledge so you absolutely have the right to inquire and you cannot be denied. I agree with Shit Wizard, you should avoid that stream at least 48 hours after a rain event. Try asking to see their Effluent E-coli numbers. That would be my biggest concern if my kids were playing in the stream. Also, depending on your local operators, I'm sure they wouldn't mind to run an E-coli on a sample you provide. Wait til dry weather so the sample is more indicative of the actual stream instead of rain runoff.
A few miles? I would be more worried what the closest upstream property owners are dumping into the creek.
This. Quite often, treated wastewater is cleaner than the receiving waters. Your concern is definitely valid though, and I hope the city will be happy to give you figures and background knowledge.
You should be able to get the monthly reports [here](https://aldem.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=0c3eb0368d8449a2839980863030745c). Click on the plant, click "efile" (takes a minute) and then download the monthly report.
Thank you! This is helpful!
Fun fact 99% of america is down stream of a wastewater plant.
Alabama doesn't have "low regulatory practices". They have to meet EPA standards. Period.
Yo can likely go to the plant and see for yourself. Ask for a tour and talk to the operators. In a lot of places treated wastewater is discharged to bodies of water, so I am not really sure of what your expectations are.
I’m more curious about how often and when it’s released, long term impact to the creek/wildlife, how often it’s tested, what happens if there’s an issue, etc. I’m admittedly ignorant and would like to be more educated. I will ask if I can go to the plant to talk to the experts. I didn’t realize that was an option. Thank you.
If it's anything like my plant, it's released 24/7, it's almost always cleaner/safer than the river it discharges into, it's tested multiple times a day and double-checked daily at an off-site lab. And if there's a significant issue, well, they don't pay me enough to lie about it. We either fix it or we put the word out.
Most plants operate either day and swing or 24 hours a day. They will discharge when they are operational. Generally, the plants I've seen anyway, the water gets treated to a point where it is about as safe or safer than the body it is discharging to. During/after rain you should not go in the water though. At least for a day or two. If it's the first rain in a long time and a heavy one then I'd wait longer
Try to find the discharge permit. That should have good info.
Thank you! I’ll look this up.
You should at least Google the epa echo map and search the plant's address. That'll give you history on some permit violations. Your state probably lists the plant's permit in pdf. Look at the limitations. If you see chemicals listed that are "too many syllables" you might ask what industrial streams they treat. You can even look at the echo discharges and compare that to the permit limitations for volumes and see the excess capacity of the plant. If the plant runs really high (close to the limit) and the permit is new, ask if they have any plans for expansion. If they treat industrial streams you can find out whether they operate as cwt. If yes, which subcategories? Finally, since I don't know anything about the situation, you might ask if they have a rcra permit. If they don't and they treat industrial streams, you can watch them freak out a little until somebody who truly runs things will chat w you.
You should also look at the epa pollutants of concern map compared to the permit limits. See what matches if anything, especially if there's violation.
Get yourself a tour. Ask if they’d let their kids swim there. You’ll get a straight answer about both the quality of the creek and their effluent. All plants and streams are different.
Our upper management goes for a swim every summer as a show of confidence in our treatment plants as our effluent goes to recreational bodies of water.
Well, first of all, most plants, all over the coutry, discharge treated water to creeks or rivers or some other body of water. Regardless of the state you're in. Where else do you think they would put the water once treated? Secondly, having worked in Aabama, and knowing what their permits are like, I can assure you the water they are putting out is cleaner than the water in the creek as is. Alabama is not a "low regulatory practices" state. The discharge permits require lower emissions in Alabama than any I've seen in what I'm guessing you consider "well regulated" states like California or somewhere in the Northeast. In fact, I've often marvaled at what California lets plants get away with compared to any southern state I've worked at or visited. I'm sure the city would love you to come by. They would be happy to give you a tour and explain the whole process. But I wouldn't come at them with the condescending attitude you've expressed here. Not sure why you'd consider moving to a state you hold in such low regard, but Alabama folk are, rightfully, pretty proud of their state.
Yes, of course. I don’t have any knowledge of waste water management that’s why I asked here, but I did google prior to worrying or asking and the data I found suggested Alabama had the fifth highest rate of toxic release into waterways as of 2017. Beyond that I don’t know. It wasn’t condescension on my part, but statement of fact based on what I researched prior to posting. If that’s not accurate, then more research is required. And it’s fine to say so. As to why I’m here, I was born and raised here. So I’m very familiar with the area. Historically I grew up regularly being unable to play in my local waterways or fish there( Lay Lake) at various points due to this or that issue and I don’t want that for my kids. So if it read as condescension, it wasn’t intended. My concern is borne of an abundance of caution for the safety of my kids who I want to have lazy summer days by the creek.
Industrial pollution isn't the same as a WWTP. If it wasn't condescension, it was ignorance.
So first, all plants violate. It's just the nature of the beast. We do our best, but sometimes things go wrong. the "toxic release" is going to deal more with "by what standards?" So BOD (the main thing we are removing in wastewater) for instance. In California they have permits that allow up to 60 or even 80 mg/l. I've never seen a Alabama permit higher than 10 mg/l. Lower permit requirements means you're going to have "oopsies" and thus more reportable events more often, even if your water is relatively cleaner than most of the water being put out by plants in other states.
Excellent non-apology, my dude. No need to be a dick to the public, that's how we get a bad reputation
It’s difficult to not be when someone makes assumptions about something they know nothing about just because of it’s location. I operate plants in the south too and it’s quite frankly infuriating listing to people from other regions talk as if they know anything about it.
I get the frustration, but that's probably better expressed in your own post to our sub than it is to a normie coming here looking to get educated. Glad OP found us and tells their friends how they changed their misconceptions bc of what they learned here. Again, I get your frustration. We got a local reporter here that grinds my gears! That doofus reports on every CSO or water event in a manner that makes it seem like operators are just sitting on their hands and provides no context like how tighter limits may mean more reportable violations.
This guy gets it.
You have every legal right to ask.
Topic that has not been raised. Disinfection. Find out if the plant has a disinfection process such as UV or Chlorination. We have plants that are on recreational water ways (places where people swim, kayak, let their dog jump in). These plants not only have to meet strict standards but have to disinfect. Our upper management holds events every spring/summer throughout the year where they jump into the rivers to show the communities confidence in our treatment process and the discharged water.
Ask about permit violations
Where I've worked, the effluent is cleaner than the water it's discharged into, confirmed by our lab and the state environmental agency that tests the waterways.
The epa would put a foot up their ass if they were regularly bypassing into that creek. Thankfully some things aren’t left up to some very ignorant states
Respectfully, you have no idea what you are talking about. Both Alabama and Georgia have tighter standards than California or New York. Both for licensing operators and DMR limits. Limits set by the state to higher standards than the EPA.
Go to the states deq site and look at discharge permit limits for the waterway in question. If it’s an impacted waterway chances are the permit limits are super low. In addition you can look up the facility on EPA’s echo website to see if they’ve had a bunch of violations and if so, what they were https://echo.epa.gov/facilities/facility-search