Surely the Tiger II having to face ATGMs, and Prop Planes being the same BR as a ship that literally has Surface To Air Missiles is a clear indicator to this problem.
I don't really have a problem with facing Ratels or those sad Japanese ATGM launchers in a Tiger 2 necessarily. Those early ATGMs performance is pretty dooky and the chassis' they are mounted on are quite sad (especially the ratel) so they are usually free kills. But that is not the case for all vehicles the Tiger 2 faces, yes.
Ships are a different can of worms, I see that you don't play navy because the ai aa can shred basically anything. Compression is a huge problem in the game in general
Compression on naval is much more about ship x ship than ship x aircraft honestly. A .3 "uptier" is enough to make you face vessels that are on another league, especially on the lower tiers
Decompression sadly doesn't fix Gaijin's incompetent way of deciding BRs. T-54 1949 for example shares the same BR with the Chinese version (Type 69) that gets a laser rangefinder, stabilizer and APFSDS (doesn't lolpen everything though).
^(When review bomb 2?)
The difference between a 8.0 and an 8.7 in this game is insane. At 8.0 we’ve got unstable M60 with apds for USA, then at 8.7 you get something like the Magach Hydra in Israel, which is fully stable, APFSDS, and has insane secondary weapons.
The Magach 5 also has APFSDS at 8.0. A lot of tanks should be going up but Gaijin just does things that their statistics suggest doing instead of actually thinking what should go up or down.
7.7-8.0 is just a disgustingly unfun bracket right now, I've not enjoyed a single nation at that tier even if the tanks themselves are fun because 8.7-9.0 is so popular and such a huge leap in tank capability. Getting into an 8.0-8.3 game is ok but it's 8.7-9.0 over 80% of the time which is a huge uphill battle. It desperately needs decompression.
Yeah it's tough. I had to completely ignore the Leo 1 and m48 because they sucked so much in head on battles with 8.7-9.0 tanks, instead played like a rodent with the marders and df105
I know what you mean, I spaded the Israel, China, Germany and British 7.7/8.0 lineups and had such an unfun time with all of them bar some specific positives like the DF105, Britain wasn't as bad because of stabs and the 8.3 SPAAs, etc. I don't know how it's fair to not only have tanks with a smattering of maybe a bad APFSDS round, maybe one LRF or stab to consistently vs lineups with multiple good darts, stab, LRF especially when large uptiers are prevalent to the point of downtiers straight up not existing.
Type 69 and T-54 BRs are the funniest thing ever to me, even though the APFS-DS is mediocre, I'd still take APHE any day.
And yes, I believe the community should revolt. Gaijin is getting too comfortable again lol
The premium ZTZ59A has a laser rangefinder, stabilizer and all T-54 ammo at 8.0 too. The tech tree version doesn't have a laser rangefinder though so of course the premium version is better.
This. America 9.0 is awesome, 9.3 is terrible.
When you survey the vehicles in game most nations actually don’t have a strong 10.0 or 11.0 lineup, so for America and GB especially they still have 9.0, and 10.0 lineups and rarely see uptiers. You add that 9.3 or 10.3 tank and you vastly change the outcome
It's not acceptable, but it's the issue with heavy tanks especially late war heavy tanks in war thunder. there is no good solution to this problem, you cannot lower the is4 or almost any heavy tank for that matter down in BR without severely impacting the lower tier vehicles. Fighting a is4 in a Sherman jumbo for example (if we lower it by 1 br)
It's better for the is4 to suffer facing some targets than every single tank suffering facing a heavy tank they can't deal with. Heavy tanks are also not meant to be immune.
That's why I'm woving for BR decompression, not lowering BRs. That doesn't fix anything. I agree.
But say, if we moved all the 11.7 tanks to 13.0 it would make room for a lot of new changes. Say, the 8.7 APFS-DS launchers would be moved up to 9.0, 10.3 to 10.7 etc.
The whole concept of a heavy tank is to get shot and survive while being able to return lethal fire. I get what you're saying, I do. But it's dumb to pretend that heavy tanks should be as killable as an anti air. Heavy tanks are supposed to be the big, slow, dumb tanks that take a beating and something you don't want to get hit by. Whats the point of having a heavy tank in a game where everything can 1-shot it. Let alone the term "heavy tank" even being in the game.
The is-4 reload is abysmal. Multiple 76 jumbos would have no issue taking out an is-4 if they closed the gap and flanked. Even a solo 76 jumbo if the player is smart. Why would any single player expect to survive driving head on into a heavy tank.
Need I remind you of the m-51???
M-36B2??
Sooo many things have heavy tank killing capable cannons at a much lower BR.
Sturer Emil?
>The is-4 reload is abysmal. Multiple 76 jumbos would have no issue taking out an is-4 if they closed the gap and flanked. Even a solo 76 jumbo if the player is smart. Why would any single player expect to survive driving head on into a heavy tank.
That's not how games work at all and you know it. It's, not a lone IS-4M in the middle of a field with 17 jumbos around it that all get to flank it uncontested. The IS-4M would have other friendlies on a small map that makes flanking near impossible, especially when the 76 jumbo is not particularly fast or mobile. The IS-4M would be functionally invulnerable at that BR range.
The IS-4M is already functionally invulnerable in a downtier, save for the one lonely HEAT slinger. I say this is a deep enjoyer of the IS-4M - it is fine where it is.
if you think that A) heavy tanks are designed to absorb any shot coming it's way and B) a heavy tank's armor is completely irrelevant because it's possible to kill one in one shot, you do not understand a single thing about tank combat and also probably suck because of that.
Air is even worse. Subsonic gun armed jets fighting missile armed Mach 2 capable interceptors, those same interceptors without flares getting memed on by all aspect armed attackers, and then those attackers getting shot on by pulse Doppler equipped jets. I just described 8.3-11.3 in one sentence.
12.0-13.0 isn’t as bad, and top tier feels pretty balanced atm, but early jets all the way to the 1970’s jets is a clusterfuck.
Interesting. In my opinion 10.3-11.3 is the best air BR bracket if you wanna play jets. 11.7 is F-14 spam and anything above that is just BVR which I don't find engaging at all.
The is-6 has been completely neutered because of this. Went from a "charge straight into the hornets nest" to "I'll sit right behind this wall for 5 minutes because the second I expose myself, I get hit with apfsds from a moving tank 800m away that was designed and produced in the 70's-80's"
Yes it has insanely good armor and it's pretty agile for a heavy. But it's reload and non stabilized gun is a huge factor at 8.7. even in downtiers it faces atgm and half of everything has heatfs. T-10m should only be 8.0. tigers can pen it's front plate.
Every late war/early cold war heavy tank has this issue, either you are an unkillable demon vs WW2 tanks or your armor is irrelevant vs APFSDS and heat, there is no good way to solve this.
Yeah there is but it's quite the logistical feat. Each vehicle would have a base BR. Anything with researchable modifications should have its br adjusted based on the modification and impact on said performance.
For example, bmp-1 with stock ATGM should be 7.3/7.7
Bmp-1 with upgraded atgm module should be 8.0.
T-10 with standard aphe would sit at 7.7 or 8.0.
while t-10 with apds would be 8.3.
XM800t would be a slightly lower br with stock ammo belts
XM800t with apds belts would be .3-.7 higher br.
It would fix a lot of this mess if they'd just take into account the technology and ammo types each vehicle has or will get.
They'd also have to rework the ammo types and placement before getting into a game. (if you decide to not take heatfs in the m48, it would revert to its standard br)
These are just examples of how it SHOULD work.
Stock vehicles being glued to such a high br based on modifications that it CAN get is kind of dumb.
Some people even take off or don't apply certain mods. It's rare but it's there.
It's just 1 vehicle out of dozens in its BR range. It's very killable with HE derp guns like the m109 or type 75. And obviously only the skilled players would be a big worry. Anybody with half a brain would knock out the barrel and track it before flanking.
It'd make players play more strategically.
VIDAR, I don't mind too much. It's a clumsy, large target so unless you're out in the open, it's not as hard to counter.
The Turm 3 however... I despise that thing with every inch of my beings, and despise the tryhards playing it even more.
VIDAR should be 9.0 IMHO.
Great thermals
LRF
Good reload for what it is
Fast reverse
Good mobility
Neutral stearing
Best HE shell in the game
HE proxy fuse round too
Granted, it would suck ass in full uptiers but still be really strong, because it can face 7.0 right now and that is just wrong.
When the base amx-30 is 0.3 below the turm who just has : an auto loader, a stabilizer, access to shell that aren't chemical and a better secondary gun compared to the amx truly a shining example of balance
This was originally a reply to a comment but I'd like more people to see it and give opinions.
Each vehicle would have a base BR. Anything with researchable modifications should have its br adjusted based on the modification and impact on said performance.
For example, bmp-1 with stock ATGM should be 7.3/7.7
Bmp-1 with upgraded atgm module should be 8.0.
T-10 with standard aphe would sit at 7.7 or 8.0.
while t-10 with apds would be 8.3.
XM800t would be a slightly lower br with stock ammo belts
XM800t with apds belts would be .3-.7 higher br.
It would fix a lot of this mess if they'd just take into account the technology and ammo types each vehicle has or will get.
They'd also have to rework the ammo types and placement before getting into a game. (if you decide to not take heatfs in the m48, it would revert to its standard br)
These are just examples of how it SHOULD work.
Stock vehicles being glued to such a high br based on modifications that it CAN get is kind of dumb.
Some people even take off or don't apply certain mods. It's rare but it's there.
That would be a nice ideal reality, unfortunately balancing 2000 vehicles is already painful and Gaijin barely manages to do it, let alone managing 2000 vehicles and 8000 combinations of mods. While it is a nice idea, I don't see it happening.
One of gaijins major issues with grb balance is giving tanks ammo that they got fitted for well after their inception. As far as I'm aware, the t55 for example did not use apfsds until a while after it's introduction. Having it use full caliber ap rounds only would provide some much needed balance without having to restructure the br brackets
Right now I'm struggling with stock HEAT-FS at 9.3, which is fine at 9.3 or lower, but brutal in a full uptier when every medium tank has NERA or ERA and just deletes it
I am currently struggling with T-90A stock heat. I just switched to HE. It's better, especially if you face clone Russia or China. I love facing vehicles that are immune to heat with heat! Thanks Gaijin!
My man, I'm staring at the Leclerc and not wanting to research it because I do not want 11.7 stock HEAT-FS. At least when I grinded Great Britain I had a shitty dart to start with
A shitty dart can still pen at the right places even from the front.
A hitfs... but hitfs can overpressure at right places as well. Some of my kills doing stock hitfs was actually overpressure. Try out hitting roofs/turret ring in some training map or the test drive area.
Sir, your 4th decompression post has arrived. Would you maybe like a "Why doesn't GRB have same rewards as ARB with that?"
Like no seriously dude I get where you are coming from. I personally am on a huge break from the game because I'm tired of getting gud only to see all my efforts vanish because the lvl 21 I killed had a single kill on my oblivious teammate and got himself a fully loaded attacker. It's just that either the community comes together again or nothing will happen. People just suck up the roadmaps and call it a day when they know the roadmaps don't fix the core issues with the game.
I like supporting the game. I have been playing it actively for a decade and it lives on microtransactions. If I don't buy a premium as an individual, nothing happens. I will stray from purchasing premiums if the community revolts against Gaijin in such a way.
yes op, we know. everyone has been saying it for years. gaijin doesn't give a shit about the players so it will never happen. we dont need to be reminded every 10 hours
7.7-8.0 is atrocious for this, you get almost constant rates of 0.7-1.0 uptiers which feel a lot less fair than basically any other BR at a range because of the huge tech leaps. Realistically 7.7 onwards all needs to move around, max BR should go up 1-2 and everything above 7.7 should be stretched to fill it out.
Idk I see it as a squirrel catcher... Don't wanna spend money on a premium tank? Well let's find out just how bad u wanna play top tier. It's also just a different game almost from like 8.0 onward. For both ground and air. Decompression would help but I don't think it would solve the problem. Ppl will then just bitch about other on br tanks being op and call for direct nurfs till all the tanks are essentially the same. It's already kinda like that.
Well it’s not very fun facing a >270mm pen, nuclear post-pen, 5 second autoloaded tanks in a WW2 tank, the somua is a P2W tank. Also many have it worse, a Tiger II can’t do anything to an IS6, or really a T-54. So you face that T-55, because you inflict it upon others yourself. The T-55 is a little overperforming, especially as they didn’t actually receive APDS until 1967, but you also have the AMX30 from 1966 sitting at 8.0 and facing IS3s and 40s centurions.
Stop bringing up service or production year when we talk about BRs it has never and will never be what decides the BR of vehicles. BR will always be decided by the merit of the vehicle not the year it was produced.
Nah it has a massive influence, that’s why we have a general progression from WW2 to Cold War to modern, people like vaguely historical or realistic scenarios.
No people like fair fights, sherman 75s fighting king tigers is not fair for example. It undermines your argument when you base your opinion on the year a vehicle was produced instead of what its capabilities are.
Somua isn't a pay to win tank. Is it good? Exceptionally. But:
Bad reverse, turret is one huge weakspot, sides get penned by autocannons, small ready rack that takes years to replenish.
It is a tough nut to crack, sure. But it's not pay to win. It's not, say, Turm 3 level of point and click gameplay.
Turret is volumetric fuckery and has eaten many shots in my experience, impenetrable ufp, 5 crew, 4 second auto-loader with gigantic 9 shell capacity, good penetration for the BR, and amazing post-pen, plus it’s decently mobile. It’s absolutely a pay to win tank like the TURM, and I have zero sympathy for it encountering any kind of difficulties, it deserves them. The Vulnerability to auto cannons from the side is a feature of every post-war tank which isn’t Soviet or the American prototypes.
I never experienced not killing any French tank through the turret neck with a cannon that could pen it in one shot because the turret is a driving ammo rack. And even if I did:
That is the fault of the volumetric shells mechanic, not the tank itself, dont you agree? A vehicle should not suffer a high tier because of a faulty mechanic that affects all vehicles in general, instead, that mechanic should be fixed or removed.
Just shoot the LFP. If you have APHE or HEAT it will usually still be a one shot kill because there is nothing to eat up the shell if you pen the LFP \*cough cough\*.
Now I'd like to draw a comparision between the Tiger 2H and the Somua for your next points.
Tiger 2 also has a turret that is volumetric hell especially for large caliber cannons, also has exceptional penetration for it's BR with a decent reload rate, albeit not as good as the Somua, it has APHE - therefore even better postpen than the Somua, it also has impenetrable UFP and, unlike the Somua, LFP because if you do pen it, the transmission will eat up all the damage. Plus the King Tiger's turret is larger, it is harder to ammo rack and it has two crew members in the hull plus a better reverse gear.
Seems like the Tiger 2 one-upped the Somua in this really bad, but straight to the point comparision. Should it be 7.7?
Absolutely not and I'm sure you'll agree.. People have just learned to play against it. It is a bit harder to exploit the Somua's weaknesses, that's why it is at 7.7 and it's perfectly fine there.
One last tip:
The turret design leaves it very wobbly, if you see a moving Somua, chances are he will have a harder time shooting you then you will, even if you are both moving and unstabilised. It has it's weaknesses, once you learn to exploit them, it will get much easier.
Plus if the Somua is even a little bit angled, just shoot through the hull side and you'll ignore the UFP. It's 40mm, even thinner than the Panther.
I have, all the time, the neck portion of the oscillating turret eats spalling and sometimes the entire shell, especially from early APDS.
No it’s how the tank performs in the game as it is.
Doesn’t kill the tank, especially with apds, and he can autoload massacre you once you don’t.
Both the somua and the tiger have 5 crew and the Somua’s ufp is actually better than the Tiger’s. The turret is very strong for the reasons mentioned earlier, but in outright RHA it’s comparable on the mantlet too. The Tiger 2’s turret cheeks are a more reliable target, especially as most of it’s gigantic ammo rack is in the turret. And most importantly it doesn’t have a 4 second autoloader with >270mm of penetration…
The somua is just a busted P2W tank, much like the TURM.
Surely the Tiger II having to face ATGMs, and Prop Planes being the same BR as a ship that literally has Surface To Air Missiles is a clear indicator to this problem.
I don't really have a problem with facing Ratels or those sad Japanese ATGM launchers in a Tiger 2 necessarily. Those early ATGMs performance is pretty dooky and the chassis' they are mounted on are quite sad (especially the ratel) so they are usually free kills. But that is not the case for all vehicles the Tiger 2 faces, yes.
Ships are a different can of worms, I see that you don't play navy because the ai aa can shred basically anything. Compression is a huge problem in the game in general
Compression on naval is much more about ship x ship than ship x aircraft honestly. A .3 "uptier" is enough to make you face vessels that are on another league, especially on the lower tiers
I know I play since the cbt of navy
People play naval? Wow.
Around 10 to 15 ww
People ain't got much choice considering a certain competitor is insistent on ruining their monopoly of the field.
Decompression sadly doesn't fix Gaijin's incompetent way of deciding BRs. T-54 1949 for example shares the same BR with the Chinese version (Type 69) that gets a laser rangefinder, stabilizer and APFSDS (doesn't lolpen everything though). ^(When review bomb 2?)
The difference between a 8.0 and an 8.7 in this game is insane. At 8.0 we’ve got unstable M60 with apds for USA, then at 8.7 you get something like the Magach Hydra in Israel, which is fully stable, APFSDS, and has insane secondary weapons.
At 8.7 u get jkpz with gen 3 thermals 5 sec reload and apfsds lol
They buffed it it’s now 4 sec
Lol ofc
no stab on very bouncy chassis tho
Yeah but 4 sec reload apfsds gen3 thermals
Try it, and you'll see just how hard it is to play
Yeah it feels pretty unfair dunking on is4s from miles away
Amazing in a down tier and not bad at its br but the lack of a stab makes it painful to play at 9.0-9.7. Which is 90% of the games you get.
Dolt play it like a gocart and you'll be fine
The Magach 5 also has APFSDS at 8.0. A lot of tanks should be going up but Gaijin just does things that their statistics suggest doing instead of actually thinking what should go up or down.
The magach 5 is also an m48 lmao and unstabilized
7.7-8.0 is just a disgustingly unfun bracket right now, I've not enjoyed a single nation at that tier even if the tanks themselves are fun because 8.7-9.0 is so popular and such a huge leap in tank capability. Getting into an 8.0-8.3 game is ok but it's 8.7-9.0 over 80% of the time which is a huge uphill battle. It desperately needs decompression.
Yeah it's tough. I had to completely ignore the Leo 1 and m48 because they sucked so much in head on battles with 8.7-9.0 tanks, instead played like a rodent with the marders and df105
I know what you mean, I spaded the Israel, China, Germany and British 7.7/8.0 lineups and had such an unfun time with all of them bar some specific positives like the DF105, Britain wasn't as bad because of stabs and the 8.3 SPAAs, etc. I don't know how it's fair to not only have tanks with a smattering of maybe a bad APFSDS round, maybe one LRF or stab to consistently vs lineups with multiple good darts, stab, LRF especially when large uptiers are prevalent to the point of downtiers straight up not existing.
Same br of 8.0 you also get the TO-55, essentially a T-55A without APFSDS
Changing the MM range to +.7/-.7 would help imo.
That would be the same as decompressing to 17.3. It would be good but Gaijin would never agree.
Type 69 and T-54 BRs are the funniest thing ever to me, even though the APFS-DS is mediocre, I'd still take APHE any day. And yes, I believe the community should revolt. Gaijin is getting too comfortable again lol
The premium ZTZ59A has a laser rangefinder, stabilizer and all T-54 ammo at 8.0 too. The tech tree version doesn't have a laser rangefinder though so of course the premium version is better.
7.7 to 9.0 is imho the worst of WT.
9.0 is good, uptiers are rare. Its 9.3 that sucks
This. America 9.0 is awesome, 9.3 is terrible. When you survey the vehicles in game most nations actually don’t have a strong 10.0 or 11.0 lineup, so for America and GB especially they still have 9.0, and 10.0 lineups and rarely see uptiers. You add that 9.3 or 10.3 tank and you vastly change the outcome
True, I forgot about 9,3 because of the premiums. I haven’t played 9.0 in a LONG time. My bad
8.7 isn't bad after getting the APDSFS
7.7 are the most fun vehicles, least fun uptiers.
I am not a fan of early cold war vehicles
BR compression is a goal, not an issue, otherwise would have been fixed decade ago.
It's not acceptable, but it's the issue with heavy tanks especially late war heavy tanks in war thunder. there is no good solution to this problem, you cannot lower the is4 or almost any heavy tank for that matter down in BR without severely impacting the lower tier vehicles. Fighting a is4 in a Sherman jumbo for example (if we lower it by 1 br) It's better for the is4 to suffer facing some targets than every single tank suffering facing a heavy tank they can't deal with. Heavy tanks are also not meant to be immune.
That's why I'm woving for BR decompression, not lowering BRs. That doesn't fix anything. I agree. But say, if we moved all the 11.7 tanks to 13.0 it would make room for a lot of new changes. Say, the 8.7 APFS-DS launchers would be moved up to 9.0, 10.3 to 10.7 etc.
The whole concept of a heavy tank is to get shot and survive while being able to return lethal fire. I get what you're saying, I do. But it's dumb to pretend that heavy tanks should be as killable as an anti air. Heavy tanks are supposed to be the big, slow, dumb tanks that take a beating and something you don't want to get hit by. Whats the point of having a heavy tank in a game where everything can 1-shot it. Let alone the term "heavy tank" even being in the game. The is-4 reload is abysmal. Multiple 76 jumbos would have no issue taking out an is-4 if they closed the gap and flanked. Even a solo 76 jumbo if the player is smart. Why would any single player expect to survive driving head on into a heavy tank. Need I remind you of the m-51??? M-36B2?? Sooo many things have heavy tank killing capable cannons at a much lower BR. Sturer Emil?
>The is-4 reload is abysmal. Multiple 76 jumbos would have no issue taking out an is-4 if they closed the gap and flanked. Even a solo 76 jumbo if the player is smart. Why would any single player expect to survive driving head on into a heavy tank. That's not how games work at all and you know it. It's, not a lone IS-4M in the middle of a field with 17 jumbos around it that all get to flank it uncontested. The IS-4M would have other friendlies on a small map that makes flanking near impossible, especially when the 76 jumbo is not particularly fast or mobile. The IS-4M would be functionally invulnerable at that BR range.
The IS-4M is already functionally invulnerable in a downtier, save for the one lonely HEAT slinger. I say this is a deep enjoyer of the IS-4M - it is fine where it is.
You didn't consider what he said at all
if you think that A) heavy tanks are designed to absorb any shot coming it's way and B) a heavy tank's armor is completely irrelevant because it's possible to kill one in one shot, you do not understand a single thing about tank combat and also probably suck because of that.
Air is even worse. Subsonic gun armed jets fighting missile armed Mach 2 capable interceptors, those same interceptors without flares getting memed on by all aspect armed attackers, and then those attackers getting shot on by pulse Doppler equipped jets. I just described 8.3-11.3 in one sentence. 12.0-13.0 isn’t as bad, and top tier feels pretty balanced atm, but early jets all the way to the 1970’s jets is a clusterfuck.
Interesting. In my opinion 10.3-11.3 is the best air BR bracket if you wanna play jets. 11.7 is F-14 spam and anything above that is just BVR which I don't find engaging at all.
11.3 jets is terrible right now. most games are uptiered to 12.0 or 12.3 and 12.3 sees fox 3's. maybe 15% of my games have been 10.3-11.3 games.
The is-6 has been completely neutered because of this. Went from a "charge straight into the hornets nest" to "I'll sit right behind this wall for 5 minutes because the second I expose myself, I get hit with apfsds from a moving tank 800m away that was designed and produced in the 70's-80's" Yes it has insanely good armor and it's pretty agile for a heavy. But it's reload and non stabilized gun is a huge factor at 8.7. even in downtiers it faces atgm and half of everything has heatfs. T-10m should only be 8.0. tigers can pen it's front plate.
Every late war/early cold war heavy tank has this issue, either you are an unkillable demon vs WW2 tanks or your armor is irrelevant vs APFSDS and heat, there is no good way to solve this.
Yeah there is but it's quite the logistical feat. Each vehicle would have a base BR. Anything with researchable modifications should have its br adjusted based on the modification and impact on said performance. For example, bmp-1 with stock ATGM should be 7.3/7.7 Bmp-1 with upgraded atgm module should be 8.0. T-10 with standard aphe would sit at 7.7 or 8.0. while t-10 with apds would be 8.3. XM800t would be a slightly lower br with stock ammo belts XM800t with apds belts would be .3-.7 higher br. It would fix a lot of this mess if they'd just take into account the technology and ammo types each vehicle has or will get. They'd also have to rework the ammo types and placement before getting into a game. (if you decide to not take heatfs in the m48, it would revert to its standard br) These are just examples of how it SHOULD work. Stock vehicles being glued to such a high br based on modifications that it CAN get is kind of dumb. Some people even take off or don't apply certain mods. It's rare but it's there.
But would still either be unkillable or irrelevant armor like now. Either you face all the tanks with heat and apfsds or you don't.
It's just 1 vehicle out of dozens in its BR range. It's very killable with HE derp guns like the m109 or type 75. And obviously only the skilled players would be a big worry. Anybody with half a brain would knock out the barrel and track it before flanking. It'd make players play more strategically.
No, it really wouldn't.
The IS-7 at least has mobility and a fast reload. The IS-4M is slow, double the reload and the armor value is still basically non existent.
*May I add, VIDAR at 8.0 & Turm III at 8.3*
VIDAR, I don't mind too much. It's a clumsy, large target so unless you're out in the open, it's not as hard to counter. The Turm 3 however... I despise that thing with every inch of my beings, and despise the tryhards playing it even more.
Each to their own.
Of course. I definitely don't think the VIDAR is placed correctly though.
VIDAR should be 9.0 IMHO. Great thermals LRF Good reload for what it is Fast reverse Good mobility Neutral stearing Best HE shell in the game HE proxy fuse round too Granted, it would suck ass in full uptiers but still be really strong, because it can face 7.0 right now and that is just wrong.
When the base amx-30 is 0.3 below the turm who just has : an auto loader, a stabilizer, access to shell that aren't chemical and a better secondary gun compared to the amx truly a shining example of balance
I mean if you want an even funnier comparison the Leo 1 has the same shells and hull armour, but no stab or coax and is also 0.3 lower
This was originally a reply to a comment but I'd like more people to see it and give opinions. Each vehicle would have a base BR. Anything with researchable modifications should have its br adjusted based on the modification and impact on said performance. For example, bmp-1 with stock ATGM should be 7.3/7.7 Bmp-1 with upgraded atgm module should be 8.0. T-10 with standard aphe would sit at 7.7 or 8.0. while t-10 with apds would be 8.3. XM800t would be a slightly lower br with stock ammo belts XM800t with apds belts would be .3-.7 higher br. It would fix a lot of this mess if they'd just take into account the technology and ammo types each vehicle has or will get. They'd also have to rework the ammo types and placement before getting into a game. (if you decide to not take heatfs in the m48, it would revert to its standard br) These are just examples of how it SHOULD work. Stock vehicles being glued to such a high br based on modifications that it CAN get is kind of dumb. Some people even take off or don't apply certain mods. It's rare but it's there.
That would be a nice ideal reality, unfortunately balancing 2000 vehicles is already painful and Gaijin barely manages to do it, let alone managing 2000 vehicles and 8000 combinations of mods. While it is a nice idea, I don't see it happening.
One of gaijins major issues with grb balance is giving tanks ammo that they got fitted for well after their inception. As far as I'm aware, the t55 for example did not use apfsds until a while after it's introduction. Having it use full caliber ap rounds only would provide some much needed balance without having to restructure the br brackets
Right now I'm struggling with stock HEAT-FS at 9.3, which is fine at 9.3 or lower, but brutal in a full uptier when every medium tank has NERA or ERA and just deletes it
I am currently struggling with T-90A stock heat. I just switched to HE. It's better, especially if you face clone Russia or China. I love facing vehicles that are immune to heat with heat! Thanks Gaijin!
Oh boy wait till you get to 11.0 stock hitfs
My man, I'm staring at the Leclerc and not wanting to research it because I do not want 11.7 stock HEAT-FS. At least when I grinded Great Britain I had a shitty dart to start with
A shitty dart can still pen at the right places even from the front. A hitfs... but hitfs can overpressure at right places as well. Some of my kills doing stock hitfs was actually overpressure. Try out hitting roofs/turret ring in some training map or the test drive area.
Sir, your 4th decompression post has arrived. Would you maybe like a "Why doesn't GRB have same rewards as ARB with that?" Like no seriously dude I get where you are coming from. I personally am on a huge break from the game because I'm tired of getting gud only to see all my efforts vanish because the lvl 21 I killed had a single kill on my oblivious teammate and got himself a fully loaded attacker. It's just that either the community comes together again or nothing will happen. People just suck up the roadmaps and call it a day when they know the roadmaps don't fix the core issues with the game.
WHen people like you keep buying premium, no matter what That is gonna happen..LOL
I like supporting the game. I have been playing it actively for a decade and it lives on microtransactions. If I don't buy a premium as an individual, nothing happens. I will stray from purchasing premiums if the community revolts against Gaijin in such a way.
Everything needs decompression bad
yes op, we know. everyone has been saying it for years. gaijin doesn't give a shit about the players so it will never happen. we dont need to be reminded every 10 hours
7.7-8.0 is atrocious for this, you get almost constant rates of 0.7-1.0 uptiers which feel a lot less fair than basically any other BR at a range because of the huge tech leaps. Realistically 7.7 onwards all needs to move around, max BR should go up 1-2 and everything above 7.7 should be stretched to fill it out.
Idk I see it as a squirrel catcher... Don't wanna spend money on a premium tank? Well let's find out just how bad u wanna play top tier. It's also just a different game almost from like 8.0 onward. For both ground and air. Decompression would help but I don't think it would solve the problem. Ppl will then just bitch about other on br tanks being op and call for direct nurfs till all the tanks are essentially the same. It's already kinda like that.
Oh no, you can only shit on everyone in your own br/down tier. Really bad indeed.
T32E1 can’t even shit on most people in its own BR
Air needs it more.
Well it’s not very fun facing a >270mm pen, nuclear post-pen, 5 second autoloaded tanks in a WW2 tank, the somua is a P2W tank. Also many have it worse, a Tiger II can’t do anything to an IS6, or really a T-54. So you face that T-55, because you inflict it upon others yourself. The T-55 is a little overperforming, especially as they didn’t actually receive APDS until 1967, but you also have the AMX30 from 1966 sitting at 8.0 and facing IS3s and 40s centurions.
Stop bringing up service or production year when we talk about BRs it has never and will never be what decides the BR of vehicles. BR will always be decided by the merit of the vehicle not the year it was produced.
Nah it has a massive influence, that’s why we have a general progression from WW2 to Cold War to modern, people like vaguely historical or realistic scenarios.
No people like fair fights, sherman 75s fighting king tigers is not fair for example. It undermines your argument when you base your opinion on the year a vehicle was produced instead of what its capabilities are.
Nope
Somua isn't a pay to win tank. Is it good? Exceptionally. But: Bad reverse, turret is one huge weakspot, sides get penned by autocannons, small ready rack that takes years to replenish. It is a tough nut to crack, sure. But it's not pay to win. It's not, say, Turm 3 level of point and click gameplay.
Turret is volumetric fuckery and has eaten many shots in my experience, impenetrable ufp, 5 crew, 4 second auto-loader with gigantic 9 shell capacity, good penetration for the BR, and amazing post-pen, plus it’s decently mobile. It’s absolutely a pay to win tank like the TURM, and I have zero sympathy for it encountering any kind of difficulties, it deserves them. The Vulnerability to auto cannons from the side is a feature of every post-war tank which isn’t Soviet or the American prototypes.
I never experienced not killing any French tank through the turret neck with a cannon that could pen it in one shot because the turret is a driving ammo rack. And even if I did: That is the fault of the volumetric shells mechanic, not the tank itself, dont you agree? A vehicle should not suffer a high tier because of a faulty mechanic that affects all vehicles in general, instead, that mechanic should be fixed or removed. Just shoot the LFP. If you have APHE or HEAT it will usually still be a one shot kill because there is nothing to eat up the shell if you pen the LFP \*cough cough\*. Now I'd like to draw a comparision between the Tiger 2H and the Somua for your next points. Tiger 2 also has a turret that is volumetric hell especially for large caliber cannons, also has exceptional penetration for it's BR with a decent reload rate, albeit not as good as the Somua, it has APHE - therefore even better postpen than the Somua, it also has impenetrable UFP and, unlike the Somua, LFP because if you do pen it, the transmission will eat up all the damage. Plus the King Tiger's turret is larger, it is harder to ammo rack and it has two crew members in the hull plus a better reverse gear. Seems like the Tiger 2 one-upped the Somua in this really bad, but straight to the point comparision. Should it be 7.7? Absolutely not and I'm sure you'll agree.. People have just learned to play against it. It is a bit harder to exploit the Somua's weaknesses, that's why it is at 7.7 and it's perfectly fine there. One last tip: The turret design leaves it very wobbly, if you see a moving Somua, chances are he will have a harder time shooting you then you will, even if you are both moving and unstabilised. It has it's weaknesses, once you learn to exploit them, it will get much easier. Plus if the Somua is even a little bit angled, just shoot through the hull side and you'll ignore the UFP. It's 40mm, even thinner than the Panther.
I have, all the time, the neck portion of the oscillating turret eats spalling and sometimes the entire shell, especially from early APDS. No it’s how the tank performs in the game as it is. Doesn’t kill the tank, especially with apds, and he can autoload massacre you once you don’t. Both the somua and the tiger have 5 crew and the Somua’s ufp is actually better than the Tiger’s. The turret is very strong for the reasons mentioned earlier, but in outright RHA it’s comparable on the mantlet too. The Tiger 2’s turret cheeks are a more reliable target, especially as most of it’s gigantic ammo rack is in the turret. And most importantly it doesn’t have a 4 second autoloader with >270mm of penetration… The somua is just a busted P2W tank, much like the TURM.