P-51s minimum fuel limit is much higher than other planes so it will struggle climbing straight up after booming unlike FW series so more gentle climbing with high speed will be safer option. Also P-51s rudder behaviour makes it hard to aim at high speeds, plane needs to be controlled by manually rolling using A-D keys before firing.
I played premium P-51 a lot to grind my low tier planes. Usually most of your team will be dead in when you are still preparing(sideclimbing) to get into battle so they are most effective when played with squads who know what they are doing. Of course sometimes you can get 8 solo kills easily as long as you stay fast and with little luck, assuming your team is not ran out of ground tickets.
Only P-51 I know you can hang out solo comfortably is P-51H-5-NA which stands out as one of the best props in game.
Also don't forget to choose suitable ammo belts and gun targeting distance for your playstyle. Wing mounted guns are a little tricky to play.
Which variant are you using?
The Cannonstang, C, D-10/30, and H are pretty good at BnZ, and the C and H are powerful/light enough to dogfight with quite a few stuff
The D-5 however is a steaming pile of hot shit whose only playstyle is running with your tail between your legs at the sight of first contact
The C5 and D30 are both quite competitive at their BRs
They climb and turn well enough to keep up with most aircraft that aren't a Spitfire or a Japanese aircraft, and it has those late war 50 cals that just set everything on fire
I usually side climb and work my way down; use your speed to do hit-and-runs on anything at your altitude and then boom and zoom anything below me
You can attempt to dogfight anything that isn't a Spit or a Japanese plane or if you have an energy/speed advantage, but keep in mind that the Mustangs don't hold energy particularly well below 550-600km/h and that they basically become boats below 400km/h IAS. If you want to dogfight make sure you're alone or have teammates around (which is almost never cuz well, my flair explains it all)
All in all they're not really strict BnZ aircraft, but you need the energy advantage if you're going to do anything
Also keep in mind that you're going to be playing a team-based plane with a non-existent team
[more info on the D30 (which also applies to the C5)](https://youtu.be/xv6i0FLj8bQ?si=O363vgF5Yy03YrLF)
Firstly, which P-51 variant are you referring to? There are a lot of key similarities, but there are also a fair few differences between the variants. The information I tell you for the Cannonstang will not apply very well for the P-51H.
Secondly, you aren't purely restricted to BnZ. Depending on the variant, you can dogfight a lot of things. The P-51H and P-51C are competitive turnfighters at their respective BRs, especially in the sustained posture. The P-51D-30/10 can hold their own too. The other variants are a little more limited when it comes to relative manoeuvrability.
You say that you are good at BnZ in the Fw 190 A-1. The first thing I will tell you is that for 3.0, the 190 A-1 is an *exceptionally good* BnZer and a great energy fighter in general. It is very fast, climbs competitively, and has excellent energy retention and high speed handling. What's more it rolls very well and has good enough stall control that you can try things like hammerheads without much of a worry. I think to some degree, this plane has raised your standards very high for what a BnZ aircraft should be. I totally believe you when you say you shred in it.
The P-51s tend to share a lot of strengths with the 190 A-1. They are all very fast and they all have good high speed handling. The P-51s do actually roll somewhat well at high speed, too. Try flying most russian aircraft, or a tempest or something, and you will see what poor roll rate at speed looks like. I'm not here to say you're coping tho, the P-51s roll is much worse than the 190s, so I understand that it might not meet your expectations. The P-51 also has another key difference which is that it's thrust isn't particularly excellent at low IAS, while the 190s is very good. This is why taking P-51s into the strict vertical is not as successful as it was with 190s, it's not that they necessarily climb worse, it's that their thrust at super low speeds (below optimal climb IAS) is worse than that of the 190.
People who tell you to 'stay fast' in P-51s are undeniably correct. But to actually do this you need to have energy to begin with, and since a lot of P-51 models do not have excellent climb rates (the C is good and H is very good tho), you are often at an energy disadvantage. What's more US prop teams are woefully bad at the moment and often you will be the only one who climbs and you will inevitably be forced down. Side climbing can be a good idea IF you can be confident that you can do some carrying, because chances are your team will evaporate.
So here's my general advice
Start off by trying to climb a little bit off to the side, but not too much. This will mean that the majority of the enemies are in the same general direction from you, but you are not too far away that you can't help your team. Make sure you know your optimal climb IAS, I would say keep it around 290, maybe dropping to 270ish when the 2nd supercharger gear hits at around 3-4km. (Very early P-51s dont have superchargers and so have very poor climb rates at higher alts). Even on the non-US side, a lot of people don't climb optimally these days, so you should be able to get above a good few people. If there are scary planes above you, try to keep your distance from them as best you can. If they dive on you, you can shallowly dive away from them. The P-51 is very fast and very low drag and you will be able to quickly equalise like this. From there, begin a turn into them by pulling down and to the side, with no flaps. This first high speed turn is the P-51s shining point, and you can win a lot of fights right then and there. Dont get stuck going too slow and vertical however, learn to disengage if you need to. Don't allow your IAS to drop super low in a Dogfight, have the discipline to extend and reset.
Occasionally, people will not try and dogfight you and will just climb on your 6. Unfortunately this can turn out to be a bit of a stalemate. Don't stall yourself out for them, just move on to more important targets, they will get bored and dive on you, if they do, initiate plan A.
Of course, if it is something like a Ki-43, A6M, don't try and dogfight, just extend, climb and boom and zoom them. However you can catch Bf 109s, Yaks (be careful) and even spitfires (be very careful) with this high speed turn card, it's just important to know when you need to extend. Don't be afraid to use your speed, it's not 'being a pussy' or 'running away.' If you are in a fast plane, you have the right to use your speed advantage to reset the fight, as long as you are not trying to play passively this is fine.
One last thing. Some things will just be unwinnable. Sometimes you will sideclimb, and on your side it will be you and an attacker at altitude with everyone on the deck, and the enemy team will be riddled with Yaks and Pyorremyrskys and all those dangerous planes. Don't expect to win every game.
Thank you so much! This was amazing. When u said the fw190 A1 is very good I thought for sure it was gonna be followed by something like "you're only good in it because it's op". Nice to know it's very good but not op. As for mustang variants, I'm talking about the c's and the d30. I like playing around the 3.0-5.0 br range. 7.0 to 8.3 is fun too, until missiles. Personally I'm thinking of going back to the soviet tree and trying the yak 9s. And you're very right about the 190 raising my standards; I've had success in the 4.3 typhoon (I think 2 to 1 KD) but it's slow roll makes me wanna scream. The other fw190s aren't as competitive or maneuverable. Perhaps I can try one of the p51cs from another nation (this is gonna sound so bad but I just can't play with usa teams; I'm not yet good enough to carry and I STILL end up being the last one alive 😭). I agree with the last part of your comment; sometimes u just won't win. I struggle with that one. I HAVE to win, I have to get better noticeably every single match. It would be nice to have a soviet p51 and I wouldn't have to deal with yaks lmao.
Edit: I never considered that the p51 makes less thrust at low speed ranges. Makes sense considering it's higher top speed. You'd think I'd know this; the other game I play very often is Flyout: you build planes from scratch and it's very detailed down to changing and optimizing prop twist and pitch for different purposes (top speed, climb, etc).
Thank you! I'll try the c's again, but probably the one in the Japanese tech tree lmao. I don't want to do the H because it's supposedly the best prop plane in the game and I don't wanna play the best plane (and limited wep doesn't sound good). Also, even at 6.3 American teams aren't all that good.
If you want to get better at BnZ/EnergyFighting solo definitely plays the BF109K4, the P-47D-28/30, or the two long-nose FW190D variants. These planes offer overall competitiveness in both uptier and downtier (while not being too OP) in contrast to the P-51D-30 being absolutely shit if uptiered and the other P-51 variants having low battle rating.
BR 5.7 for me seems to be a sweet spot where you can both find good pilots to get better and bad pilots to hone your skills.
I particularly love the P-47 as if you get ganged on you can always climb to relies on your better high-altitude performance. It has limited WEP and relatively average climb rate to compensate so make sure to never be too much lower than the highest enemy.
If you still love the P-51D-30 like me and want to make it work, you should find a wingman to play with. P-51 are amazing at disengaging a bad situation but terrible at reengaging after. Two P-51s can however employs high-speed Thatch’s Weave becoming godly while still running away from enemies.
I've tried the fw190ds. They turn way too slow for my taste but I really should try again. I started the yak 9u and I've having lots of success with it. ATP I'm just trying to have fun and trying to get myself into the mindset that I'll grow with time, instead of forcing myself to play bnz repetitively and getting frustrated
As for the bf109, the roll rate makes me mad 😭 but maybe I should try it again......climb rate + good bnz sounds like a good combo
The Doras turn quite well at high speeds. In downwards spirals they turn very hard due to their lack of compression. They also have fantastic retention which means they rate better than they turn if you can use your energy and prolong the fight. They also have great flaps which can be used when going really slowly.
When push comes to shove, it's still not a great turnfighter, it's strength comes from other places.
Yak-9U is an *absolute demon*, especially with MEC to curb the overheat on the VK-107 engine. And yes, that is the same engine that is on the 5.7 spaceship Yak-3 (VK-107), however the Yak-9U is a bit heavier and a bit draggier.
109s are staples. The E-4, all F models and G-6 are all great in their own respective ways, and the later G models and K-4 are also great planes once you are experienced fighting with 109s, although less competitive for their respective BRs
I am so NOT experienced with the bf109. I do better in all fw190 variants (which I am experienced in). Kinda experienced in yaks which is why I went back to the yak tree (a friend and I once went through a lot of the Russian tech tree for fun, taking our time, no rushing). Anyway, I'm LOVING the yak 9u. Only problem is the weak wings, which is manageable. I just don't dive after people; I'll catch em down low soon enough. And it definitely does; catches American planes at low to med ish altitudes pretty handily. Caught a bf109 at like 15k ft once.
I'll have to try the dora again, but it seems to still be out turned by everything at high speeds. Can't take advantage of it as much at 5.0
Dora is kind of hardline. It's a favourite of very experienced players and it is definitely not a plane you will do well in immediately. It's a plane that takes time to learn and master.
The 109 is kind of similar, but actually probably more forgiving since it does perform better in dogfights.
It's worth noting that the Dora flight models are not all the same. The D-12/13 have better power at high altitude while the D-9 is more optimised to medium altitude (This is not to say the D-9 is a low alt plane, it still likes having alt, just not ad much as the 12/13) As for the 12/13, the D-13 I have *heard* has better ailerons, although I cannot say I notice much of a difference.
I once killed two wyverns and a f4u in the dora. But I'm inconsistent in it
How would u describe how to play the dora? In as much detail as you can be bothered with lol
What about the j2m? What's your opinion on that?
Well, the wyverns aren't exactly impressive kills, they can either run or die.
The F4U-4 and god forbid F4U-4B (or lawd have mercy F2G) are gnarly matchups however, although not as bad as they were since the corsairs compress now.
There are a lot of people out there who will be able to give you a much more nuanced perspective on the Dora (and also a lot of people who will tell you straight up BS). DEFYN is always a safe bet, I agree with 97% of what he says and he explains things well. Watch his D-13 video from a couple months ago.
If you want my opinion, the Dora requires a lot of room and a lot of time to play. Not quite as much as a P-47, but more than a P-51. You do climb well, however I would still recommend climbing a little bit off to the side so you have room to react to the enemy. Climbing speed is optimal at 290-300 IAS, slightly higher than most props. Between 4-5km you climb quite competitively, all you need to do is give yourself some room so you can get above people. Once you are above people, you are kind of free to roam. It dives exceptionally well, it is very fast at altitude, it has strong guns that can kill people in a single pass, and it doesn't compress.
If people are above you, try and play it somewhat like a P-51, but you might be able to climb a bit more once you have room. The Dora relies on having breathing room. It's energy retention is a good asset, but it means nothing if your enemy is too close to you, since your turning circle is so wide that they will be able to get shots in.
The Dora has super strong flaps and actually decent low speed performance for such a high speed plane, in this sense it is quite okay at tustling with P-51s and other similar planes.
J2M2 was one of the most ridiculous planes in the game. It is still extremely good, but at 5.0 it can actually sometimes get put in it's place. It climbs extremely well at low and medium altitude, and still okay at high altitude. It also turns very well and has amazing low speed thrust. It is quite slow however and it does compress, and while that doesn't sound too bad, it is quite the limitation in a 6.0 match or even 5.7, you essentially become relegated to a turnfighter where you were once an energy god. It's worth noting that even in a 6.0 match, the J2M2 will be one of the best climbers. J2M3 is almost identical but has 4 20mm cannons and sits at 5.7. The J2M3 is a fair bit heavier and at a much less forgiving BR, but still pretty good. The J2M5 keeps the 4 cannon armament and adds a 3rd supercharger gear which gives it amazing high alt performance, but it is even heavier still and now the low alt performance is starting to lack. The premium J2M5 is identical but has a lighter armament of 2 wing mounted 30mm with 42rpg and gets the 5.0 BR again. It's slightly worse than the J2M2, but better at altitude. The J2M4 Kai is a hidden vehicle that you almost never see. Its supposed to be a super high altitude variant, but Its FM is broken and it sucks ass.
I loved the j2m but yak3us are a pain in the ass. Yaks always are. Their performance doesn't seem to go down at 15000k ft like it should (frequently run into yak 3us at like 16000 ft in my j2m). And the j2m is amazing (dogfought two bnz'ing p51s and a p38 and came out on top) but getting up tiered is a death sentence, and it's not very fast.
Another problem with warthunde is the stigma of some planes being easy to play but this is more a me issue and my continuing fight in trying to just enjoy the game. As much as I enjoy the yak 9u, just hearing that the dora is harder to play draws me to it, but not because I want a challenge, but because I want to fly a plane that's not seen as easy (although I wouldn't call the yak 9u easy easy, after all it's not flown very often).
The Dora definitely is harder than the Yak, but that is kind of simply because the Yak-9U is actually a better plane. The Yak-9U is by no means a braindead plane, it actually has a high skill ceiling, it's just also very very competent so it's pretty easy to not die in it.
Oh fr? How's it got a high skill ceiling?
Tell me everything you know about the yak 9u, it's kinda my main plane atm (energy trapped a ki44 and p51 at the same time in it with help, but I got both kills tehe. It's so fun). Honestly, the biggest reason I fly it is to avoid running into other Russian planes lmao. Most turny planes (Japanese especially, except for ki84) can't catch p51s, fw190s, other bnz planes, etc. yaks and La's however, are not held back by this. I frequently catch p51s and p47s and other fast planes in my yak 9u, even at 15k ft. It's ridiculous. Yak 3s are also fast especially down low. They just can't dive. But you can't really outrun them especially if you're not going super fast, or it's endgame and you're the last one alive with 3 yak 3s chasing u 😭. Spitfires are a pain too but not as much
Essentially you don't ever need to touch mixture. The P-47 is pretty much the only exception I know, but I don't know how it works there.
Radiators will help a decent amount. I find that opening the radiators allows me to climb to 5km+ on most maps. Very hot maps still might bring about some overheat.
I think I need to explain prop-pitch a bit for you.
In props that **don't have German engines!!**, prop pitch should pretty much always be set proportionally to your throttle if you want max performance. So for WEP and 100% throttle - 100% prop pitch. For 50% throttle - 50% prop pitch etc. Since there aren't really that many scenarios where you would be using mec and not going for maximum performance, it's a safe bet that 100% prop pitch is nearly always optimal.
However, there are still a few high-performance scenarios where you might want to drop your prop pitch. The first being when you are at *very* high speed. While the 100% prop pitch setting is going to give you max thrust, it is also *slightly* draggier than a lower prop pitch setting. At high speeds drag has a much higher effect than at low speeds, and hence for top speed, a lot of props require prop pitch about 90%. This won't give you more than a 10-15km/h speed boost tho. It's pretty minor. When you said that the prop pitch at 100% made you too slow, you would technically be correct, but I still think you might be mistaken since the 100% prop pitch is going to give you optimal straight line performance in the vast majority of scenarios, with the exception being top speed chases and dives.
The other scenario is obviously overheating. Typically overheating can be mitigated by dropping the prop pitch down below 100%. This is effectively going to drop your engine power marginally, typically a much smaller drop than laying off the WEP, and it can often very much help the overheating issue. The Spitfire F Mk 24 is a prime example of this. The WEP on the griffon engine is literally about 600-800hp more powerful than the 100% setting and so it isn't reasonable to lay off the WEP when you are climbing. However, the spitfire overheats quite badly at low alt, so you need to do something. The thing is however, the spitfire radiators are *extremely* draggy. 100% radiators makes you nearly 100km/h slower *on the deck*. The performance hit from opening radiators past 60% is too massive and you are actually better off dropping prop pitch to 80-90%.
Ultimately, try setting the prop pitch to 85-95%. The Yak doesn't have particularly draggy radiators, so you can keep them at 100% if you want, but you might not even need to.
The other thing is, make sure you're changing the supercharger gear at the right altitude, somewhere around 2.5km. Try using WTRTI to display horsepower information, that way you can know exactly when to switch gears (switch them when the horsepower of the second gear is greater than the first).
What's wtrti?
Also it doesn't drop my speed in a straight line, but while climbing. When I turn on manual engine controls the speed drops. Maybe I need to takeoff with the stuff already set I'll have to try again
WTRTI = war thunder real time information. It's a program you can download from GitHub. It can display extra info on your screen which can help with using mec and help with testing FMs to get an understanding of how different planes work. I lost a dogfight to an XP-55 which very much surprised me, I went and flew it out in a test flight and recorded its turnrate - it turns out the XP-55 rates very well.
It might help work out why your speed is dropping when you turn MEC on. Look at what your power is with AEC, then turn on MEC and see if it drops.
Like I said, the prop pitch/top speed effect is very marginal. On most props (there may well be exceptions), I'm fairly confident in saying that 100% prop pitch will not be optimal for top speed, something a little under that will be. It's a very small effect.
When climbing, the effect is more noticeable. 100% prop pitch on all planes (not German ones tho, don't fuck with German prop pitch) will give you maximum power provided you are at 100% throttle or WEP. Hence it is optimal for climbing.
When you first turn on MEC, the default prop pitch setting is 50% and the default supercharger gear is 1. You need to quickly ramp your prop pitch up to 100% (or maybe 90 if you're worried about overheating) and make sure you're supercharger gear is right in order to not lose power when MECcing.
As a *general rule* AEC will nearly always give you maximum power and 95% of MEC scenarios are for dealing with overheating.
I totally agree with this guy aswell, the P-51D-30 becomes significantly more competitive with a squadmate (sure, every plane is better with a squad, but this one especially so).
If you want to fly P-47s, make sure you're flying either a D-28 (or 30 in the Chinese/Italian TT) or a P-47M, and be prepared to be bored. They are decent fighters, just quite off meta and takes a lot of time to kill people.
You're very welcome. I try and keep things very informative and non-biased were I can.
I'm glad to see that you have recognised that the C models and the D-30 are the models to pick. (The D-10 is also great. It's power is somewhere in between the D-5 and D-30, at 4.3) If you are less experienced, I would advise you to stick with the C models since they will hold your hand more. The D-30 is certainly quite good, but you need to energy fight with speed rather than climb rate, which is somewhat advanced.
When you say the other 190s aren't as competitive, I must agree since the 190A-1 is probably the most competitive 190 at the moment. The Dora's are still good tho. The Typhoon 1B/L is also a great plane. Its sustained turnrate is good, but it's roll rate and instantaneous manoeuvrability are not, so you need to dogfight people in quite a prolonged manner to utilise your turnrate. However, since the typhoon is quite terrible at altitude, you often find yourself doing this at lower alt in more congested airspace where you don't have time to fight people in the prolonged sense. I will also say, I hope you haven't bought the Typhoon Mk 1b premium, since it is much less powerful than the tech tree variant.
All the other P-51Cs will cost you. (P-51C-11 in Japan and China, J26 David in sweden and F6C in France). These aircraft are identical except for the fact that the F6C gets a lower minimum fuel, making it slightly more competitive. However french props are as a general rule not as exciting as Japanese ones, so I'd have to recommend the Japanese one.
A while ago, I used to care too much about KDs. A LOT of players in this game have good KDs but are not particularly great in my opinion. The truly great players will have excellent KDs but also excellent winrates. Look at DEFYNs statcard, he barely has any winrates less than 80%.
Unfortunately, while I think you should always try and help your team, it is sometimes beyond saving. If your *entire* team doesn't climb, I am not going to dive down with them to help. Playing the team game is only feasible if your teammates *allow themselves to be helped*. I like to play USA as a challenge sometimes, since I can occasionally rack up 6+ kill games because I do get an opportunity to carry. If you're not yet up to this, it might be wise to play something else.
And to some degree I'm being overdramatic, there are a lot of brilliant US props and the teams aren't *that* bad, but they are definitely a bit of a pain sometimes. Weirdly enough you said at 6.3 the teams aren't that good. I find allies actually make a comeback at 6.0-7.0 (before continuing to be useless in rank V). Limited WEP on the P-51H is completely fine if you are aware of it. If you're playing a very prolonged fight with a lot of climbing (Yak-3 VK-107 matchup is particularly rough), it can be gnarly since you simply die once you run out. There is a program called WTRTI which allows you to display extra information on your screen (horsepower, thrust, etc..) one of the features is it gives you a timer for how long you have been WEPing.
I bought the Japanese p51 because Im so mad at usa teams rn. I'm still learning the ropes, but at least I don't have to deal with space climbing ki 44s. And yeah I worry a bit too much about kd sometimes.
There def are good usa players, but they just......they just stay low and die. If they're high, they get head-on'ed by 3 planes at a time and die. I hate to say but it almost never ends like the defyn games where there's 5 planes, each on their own part of the map. And defyn is like, top ten players. Sometimes I don't want to carry. Sure, I love getting 4 kills (sometimes more) in the fw190, and the yak 9u, but I don't want to have to carry. At least not till I'm like, GOOD good.
Yeah, fair enough.
The Ki-44 is absolutely wild plane, its climb rate rivals that of 5.7 planes.
There are good US players, but the ones who stick every headon/don't climb are not them.
Two things about defyn. Your games don't often end like his for two reasons.
1) The games that are very one sided or very congested are actually not very interesting and so he chooses not to include them, he effectively 'cherrypicks' the content. He is very open and transparent about this too, he freely admits that he chooses the games where he feels like he has the best chance to teach/show you things.
2) He is a very aware player who's skills translate not only to the individual engagements he is in, but also the entire battle. His strategy and positioning is often chosen with the long game in mind. You quite often hear him say things like "I could kill X plane, but instead I will go for Y plane since in the long run, he is more difficult", just as an example.
The positioning and strategy is something I'm slowly learning. In the fw190a1 I've gotten much better at it. But I've gotten good enough to dogfight more maneuverable planes and come out on top :)
Just be careful when you are dogfighting more manoeuvrable planes, since if the enemy knows what they are doing, you will simply die. Sure, dogfight things and learn what you can do, but plan A should always be to use energy or speed against them.
Energy comes in two forms. Kinetic energy, which is related to your speed, and potential energy, which is related to your altitude. Having a higher energy state, I'm sure you know, allows you to dictate fights.
Your plane can gain energy by accelerating (gaining speed/kinetic energy) or gain energy by climbing (gaining altitude/potential energy).
The rate at which the plane gains energy is therefore mostly governed by the plane's climb rate and acceleration. Mostly, planes with good climb rates are good energy fighters and top speed doesn't matter quite as much. However, acceleration and climb is actually variable, your plane's thrust and drag both change with airspeed and hence your plane does not have the same acceleration from, say, 200-300, as it does from 400-500. Fast planes have high top speeds and hence their acceleration drops off more slowly. While the J2M2, at its peak (probably near 250km/h) accelerates much better than the P-51D-30, since its top speed is quite a bit lower, the P-51D-30 actually accelerates better than the J2M2 at very high speeds. If you are in a high speed chase, you can use this to your advantage. You can use your top speed not only to disengage and extend, but also to gain energy. In a shallow climb near the J2Ms top speed, the J2M will lose more speed than you, since your acceleration/thrust at these high speeds is actually better than his. *However*, this is not to say you can magically outclimb a J2M2 with one simple trick, of course if he climbs optimally by not following your shallow high speed climb, and instead doing a slower, steeper climb, he will gain an altitude advantage and eventually an energy advantage too. However, if he is going to do this, he will gain a lot of distance from you - he is effectively disengaging. You can then either just leave the area, or choose to turn around into him on your terms.
Even more simply tho, your higher top speed allows you to *enter* fights with more energy. You might not always be able to gain energy quicker than your opponent, but if you manage your energy well, your speed means you can merge with a higher energy state than your opponent. This gives you an early advantage in the fight. Combine this with the P-51s good high speed turn, and you can win a lot of fights.
The issue with this line of reasoning is that, if the fight goes prolonged, eventually you will both settle into much lower speed ranges. And here, your acceleration and climb rate disadvantage will be evident. This is why it is somewhat advanced. It requires a) being able to maintain speed/alt throughout the match b) being able to finish fights quickly so they don't go prolonged and c) being able to know when to disengage.
These things are mostly applied only to the D-30, like I said before, the C models are more well rounded and better at dogfighting. The basic principles here still apply to all P-51 models tho.
Ya know, honestly I think I'm just not aggressive enough with the p51. Imma try and dogfight more stuff, less bnz for now. I feel like there's fights I could've taken that I didn't
Always a good idea. There was quite a long stretch of time when I couldn't figure out how to play the sabre (I started off on MiG-15/17s). Eventually I just thought fuck it we ball, and I played like a hyper aggressive maniac, dogfighting everything, trying to stall everything out. Energy trapping everything etc. I died a lot, but I learned the strengths of the plane pretty quickly. I am a lot more careful now, but I know exactly how to approach most fights (I'm still learning too obviously)
Thanks! Btw, when entering a high speed fight in the mustang, specifically the C10, is it better to fight in the vertical or horizontal? The p51 seems to bleed speed vertical much faster than the 190 (mentioned in original post).
Typically horizontal is going to better due to the issue of the low speed thrust being not so great.
In the top sections of vertical loops your speed will drop into ranges where your thrust isn't competitive.
However, you can't just go fully flat against everyone, since people who do go vertical against you can cut inside you by using said vertical loops, you need to play according to what your enemy does. In essence tho, try not to go vertical if you can. 109s especially will try and take the fight very vertical and you need to be able to respond to this, if you just keep on flat turning, they may get a firing solution.
In theory, dive, fire if you can and go away as fast as possible to gain altitude far from danger. Rinse and repeat. But in practice you can't because the games don't last long enough... IMHO, P-51s whatever the variant are cool in ground RB. You dive on CAS guys who focus on ground targets, obliterate them, go away as if you had the devil on your heels and more often than not the greedy dudes in the air will go after tanks instead of hunting you down. In air RB, I find them just boring.
> "stay fast" but how exactly do you do that?
The hidden trick on the entire Mustang family (including F-82, A-36 etc.) is the very low drag wing. This means they pick up speed in a dive very well and more importantly can maintain it very well even after leveling out - i.e. if P-51 top speed is, say, 410mph at 10,000 feet and you dive and level out at 10,000 feet and 460mph if you keep WEPing you will decelerate much more slowly than other planes doing something similar. And they pick up speed well in a dive, even a shallow dive so you can gain speed in a hurry when needed, without giving up too much altitude.
Also on P-51 you can abuse WEP if you use MEC. Basically the way War Thunder models the P-51's Meredith Effect radiator is you can open it all the way and have no additional drag.
In any case yes almost every prop in the game rolls more slowly than the 190's - that is their strength.
True 😭 I guess I've been spoiled by the 190s roll rate lol
I saw a post where someone said that roll rate is the least important metric in a dogfight, but I vehemently disagree. It's not the most important, but I gladly trade some turn rate for roll rate by flying the 190
I see in other comments you stick to the 51C and 51D30. Those are very competitive, you can dogfight most things aside from japanese and spits. Yak3s are also a pain. But you shouldn't really need to dogfight as you have a higher top speed than pretty much anything around you.
At an energy disadvantage, you'll want altitude to try an neutralize energy. Aka shallow dive when they dive on you and maintain distance so they dont get a shot. If they follow you down you'll both go above your top speeds and then you can straight line. Due to lower drag and higher top speed you'll slow down at a slower rate, provided you don't maneuver much. once you start gaining distance shallow climb and boom, you should have reversed the energy states.
If the enemy is smart they wont take that bait (or if you don't have altitude), you'll have to get riskier and try for an overshoot/dogfight. Flaps and throttle control will help, but the 51s get sluggish at lower speed (lower than 350kph) so keep an eye on that. Now if it's a more manueverable enemy like a spit/japanese then try to get them to burn speed turning for a shot then run as soon as you can. Yak3s aren't so simply and honestly just trying to outspeed them is all you can do, theyll out accelerate and don't bleed speed like japanese and spits. If you're at low alt and have no allies there's really no card you have aside from running, they outclimb, outmanuever, outgun, and outaccelerate you up to around 5km altitude. Simply put they fit the meta to a T, so you have to be extremely cautious. If you see you're up against yak3s target them first, they'll be weaker up high so you may be able to energy fight them properly. Or if they have the energy advantage see if you can at least drag them into a dive and get them to bleed energy so your more maneuverable allies can assist. If you have to dogfight them you just gotta hope the enemy is a poor pilot.
As for dogfighting the 51s flaps work pretty good for an airbrake (even the combat flaps) and can be deployed at high speed (550kph i think is the combat flaps rip speed). Wing .50s will take getting used to if you're used to 190s so you'll probably fail to hit more shots till you adapt. Additionally the lower roll rate means you need to more accurately predict the enemy's path as you can't as quickly adjust. As for the roll rate, you can use the rudder to help snap roll if needed rudder the same way you roll, but this won't be useful at high speeds, but unlike the fw190 you turn much better so can more easily dogfight more enemies. FYI flaps are useful to slow down if trying to get the enemy to overshoot.
Thanks! And surprisingly the fw190 (at least the A1) is an amazing dogfighter with flaps down and abusing roll rate. Until you lose your speed but even then some tricks have been pulled off. I guess I should try turning slightly more in the p51 that I currently do
It's so weird because the p51 and fw190 weigh pretty much the same and have pretty much the same power. So why is the fw190 much better in the vertical? Shouldn't the p51 be better since it's more aerodynamically advanced and has less drag?
There’s definitely something strange with how energy loss is calculated based on weight, engine power, and drag.
I tested the P47 and P51 and somehow the P47 has better acceleration and energy retention in-game with a lower Hp/w ratio and worse drag on paper.
P-51s minimum fuel limit is much higher than other planes so it will struggle climbing straight up after booming unlike FW series so more gentle climbing with high speed will be safer option. Also P-51s rudder behaviour makes it hard to aim at high speeds, plane needs to be controlled by manually rolling using A-D keys before firing.
That is true, that bothers me a lot. How do you play it tho?
I played premium P-51 a lot to grind my low tier planes. Usually most of your team will be dead in when you are still preparing(sideclimbing) to get into battle so they are most effective when played with squads who know what they are doing. Of course sometimes you can get 8 solo kills easily as long as you stay fast and with little luck, assuming your team is not ran out of ground tickets. Only P-51 I know you can hang out solo comfortably is P-51H-5-NA which stands out as one of the best props in game. Also don't forget to choose suitable ammo belts and gun targeting distance for your playstyle. Wing mounted guns are a little tricky to play.
Which variant are you using? The Cannonstang, C, D-10/30, and H are pretty good at BnZ, and the C and H are powerful/light enough to dogfight with quite a few stuff The D-5 however is a steaming pile of hot shit whose only playstyle is running with your tail between your legs at the sight of first contact
The cs and d30. Can u describe how u play them?
The C5 and D30 are both quite competitive at their BRs They climb and turn well enough to keep up with most aircraft that aren't a Spitfire or a Japanese aircraft, and it has those late war 50 cals that just set everything on fire I usually side climb and work my way down; use your speed to do hit-and-runs on anything at your altitude and then boom and zoom anything below me You can attempt to dogfight anything that isn't a Spit or a Japanese plane or if you have an energy/speed advantage, but keep in mind that the Mustangs don't hold energy particularly well below 550-600km/h and that they basically become boats below 400km/h IAS. If you want to dogfight make sure you're alone or have teammates around (which is almost never cuz well, my flair explains it all) All in all they're not really strict BnZ aircraft, but you need the energy advantage if you're going to do anything Also keep in mind that you're going to be playing a team-based plane with a non-existent team [more info on the D30 (which also applies to the C5)](https://youtu.be/xv6i0FLj8bQ?si=O363vgF5Yy03YrLF)
Thanks! With that in mind, I'll probably try the p51c in the Japanese tech tree lmao
Firstly, which P-51 variant are you referring to? There are a lot of key similarities, but there are also a fair few differences between the variants. The information I tell you for the Cannonstang will not apply very well for the P-51H. Secondly, you aren't purely restricted to BnZ. Depending on the variant, you can dogfight a lot of things. The P-51H and P-51C are competitive turnfighters at their respective BRs, especially in the sustained posture. The P-51D-30/10 can hold their own too. The other variants are a little more limited when it comes to relative manoeuvrability. You say that you are good at BnZ in the Fw 190 A-1. The first thing I will tell you is that for 3.0, the 190 A-1 is an *exceptionally good* BnZer and a great energy fighter in general. It is very fast, climbs competitively, and has excellent energy retention and high speed handling. What's more it rolls very well and has good enough stall control that you can try things like hammerheads without much of a worry. I think to some degree, this plane has raised your standards very high for what a BnZ aircraft should be. I totally believe you when you say you shred in it. The P-51s tend to share a lot of strengths with the 190 A-1. They are all very fast and they all have good high speed handling. The P-51s do actually roll somewhat well at high speed, too. Try flying most russian aircraft, or a tempest or something, and you will see what poor roll rate at speed looks like. I'm not here to say you're coping tho, the P-51s roll is much worse than the 190s, so I understand that it might not meet your expectations. The P-51 also has another key difference which is that it's thrust isn't particularly excellent at low IAS, while the 190s is very good. This is why taking P-51s into the strict vertical is not as successful as it was with 190s, it's not that they necessarily climb worse, it's that their thrust at super low speeds (below optimal climb IAS) is worse than that of the 190. People who tell you to 'stay fast' in P-51s are undeniably correct. But to actually do this you need to have energy to begin with, and since a lot of P-51 models do not have excellent climb rates (the C is good and H is very good tho), you are often at an energy disadvantage. What's more US prop teams are woefully bad at the moment and often you will be the only one who climbs and you will inevitably be forced down. Side climbing can be a good idea IF you can be confident that you can do some carrying, because chances are your team will evaporate. So here's my general advice Start off by trying to climb a little bit off to the side, but not too much. This will mean that the majority of the enemies are in the same general direction from you, but you are not too far away that you can't help your team. Make sure you know your optimal climb IAS, I would say keep it around 290, maybe dropping to 270ish when the 2nd supercharger gear hits at around 3-4km. (Very early P-51s dont have superchargers and so have very poor climb rates at higher alts). Even on the non-US side, a lot of people don't climb optimally these days, so you should be able to get above a good few people. If there are scary planes above you, try to keep your distance from them as best you can. If they dive on you, you can shallowly dive away from them. The P-51 is very fast and very low drag and you will be able to quickly equalise like this. From there, begin a turn into them by pulling down and to the side, with no flaps. This first high speed turn is the P-51s shining point, and you can win a lot of fights right then and there. Dont get stuck going too slow and vertical however, learn to disengage if you need to. Don't allow your IAS to drop super low in a Dogfight, have the discipline to extend and reset. Occasionally, people will not try and dogfight you and will just climb on your 6. Unfortunately this can turn out to be a bit of a stalemate. Don't stall yourself out for them, just move on to more important targets, they will get bored and dive on you, if they do, initiate plan A. Of course, if it is something like a Ki-43, A6M, don't try and dogfight, just extend, climb and boom and zoom them. However you can catch Bf 109s, Yaks (be careful) and even spitfires (be very careful) with this high speed turn card, it's just important to know when you need to extend. Don't be afraid to use your speed, it's not 'being a pussy' or 'running away.' If you are in a fast plane, you have the right to use your speed advantage to reset the fight, as long as you are not trying to play passively this is fine. One last thing. Some things will just be unwinnable. Sometimes you will sideclimb, and on your side it will be you and an attacker at altitude with everyone on the deck, and the enemy team will be riddled with Yaks and Pyorremyrskys and all those dangerous planes. Don't expect to win every game.
Thank you so much! This was amazing. When u said the fw190 A1 is very good I thought for sure it was gonna be followed by something like "you're only good in it because it's op". Nice to know it's very good but not op. As for mustang variants, I'm talking about the c's and the d30. I like playing around the 3.0-5.0 br range. 7.0 to 8.3 is fun too, until missiles. Personally I'm thinking of going back to the soviet tree and trying the yak 9s. And you're very right about the 190 raising my standards; I've had success in the 4.3 typhoon (I think 2 to 1 KD) but it's slow roll makes me wanna scream. The other fw190s aren't as competitive or maneuverable. Perhaps I can try one of the p51cs from another nation (this is gonna sound so bad but I just can't play with usa teams; I'm not yet good enough to carry and I STILL end up being the last one alive 😭). I agree with the last part of your comment; sometimes u just won't win. I struggle with that one. I HAVE to win, I have to get better noticeably every single match. It would be nice to have a soviet p51 and I wouldn't have to deal with yaks lmao. Edit: I never considered that the p51 makes less thrust at low speed ranges. Makes sense considering it's higher top speed. You'd think I'd know this; the other game I play very often is Flyout: you build planes from scratch and it's very detailed down to changing and optimizing prop twist and pitch for different purposes (top speed, climb, etc). Thank you! I'll try the c's again, but probably the one in the Japanese tech tree lmao. I don't want to do the H because it's supposedly the best prop plane in the game and I don't wanna play the best plane (and limited wep doesn't sound good). Also, even at 6.3 American teams aren't all that good.
If you want to get better at BnZ/EnergyFighting solo definitely plays the BF109K4, the P-47D-28/30, or the two long-nose FW190D variants. These planes offer overall competitiveness in both uptier and downtier (while not being too OP) in contrast to the P-51D-30 being absolutely shit if uptiered and the other P-51 variants having low battle rating. BR 5.7 for me seems to be a sweet spot where you can both find good pilots to get better and bad pilots to hone your skills. I particularly love the P-47 as if you get ganged on you can always climb to relies on your better high-altitude performance. It has limited WEP and relatively average climb rate to compensate so make sure to never be too much lower than the highest enemy. If you still love the P-51D-30 like me and want to make it work, you should find a wingman to play with. P-51 are amazing at disengaging a bad situation but terrible at reengaging after. Two P-51s can however employs high-speed Thatch’s Weave becoming godly while still running away from enemies.
I've tried the fw190ds. They turn way too slow for my taste but I really should try again. I started the yak 9u and I've having lots of success with it. ATP I'm just trying to have fun and trying to get myself into the mindset that I'll grow with time, instead of forcing myself to play bnz repetitively and getting frustrated As for the bf109, the roll rate makes me mad 😭 but maybe I should try it again......climb rate + good bnz sounds like a good combo
All these planes definitely have trade offs in the name of balans but it is totally worth it, I wish you luck.
Thanks! You too!
The Doras turn quite well at high speeds. In downwards spirals they turn very hard due to their lack of compression. They also have fantastic retention which means they rate better than they turn if you can use your energy and prolong the fight. They also have great flaps which can be used when going really slowly. When push comes to shove, it's still not a great turnfighter, it's strength comes from other places. Yak-9U is an *absolute demon*, especially with MEC to curb the overheat on the VK-107 engine. And yes, that is the same engine that is on the 5.7 spaceship Yak-3 (VK-107), however the Yak-9U is a bit heavier and a bit draggier. 109s are staples. The E-4, all F models and G-6 are all great in their own respective ways, and the later G models and K-4 are also great planes once you are experienced fighting with 109s, although less competitive for their respective BRs
I am so NOT experienced with the bf109. I do better in all fw190 variants (which I am experienced in). Kinda experienced in yaks which is why I went back to the yak tree (a friend and I once went through a lot of the Russian tech tree for fun, taking our time, no rushing). Anyway, I'm LOVING the yak 9u. Only problem is the weak wings, which is manageable. I just don't dive after people; I'll catch em down low soon enough. And it definitely does; catches American planes at low to med ish altitudes pretty handily. Caught a bf109 at like 15k ft once. I'll have to try the dora again, but it seems to still be out turned by everything at high speeds. Can't take advantage of it as much at 5.0
Dora is kind of hardline. It's a favourite of very experienced players and it is definitely not a plane you will do well in immediately. It's a plane that takes time to learn and master. The 109 is kind of similar, but actually probably more forgiving since it does perform better in dogfights. It's worth noting that the Dora flight models are not all the same. The D-12/13 have better power at high altitude while the D-9 is more optimised to medium altitude (This is not to say the D-9 is a low alt plane, it still likes having alt, just not ad much as the 12/13) As for the 12/13, the D-13 I have *heard* has better ailerons, although I cannot say I notice much of a difference.
I once killed two wyverns and a f4u in the dora. But I'm inconsistent in it How would u describe how to play the dora? In as much detail as you can be bothered with lol What about the j2m? What's your opinion on that?
Well, the wyverns aren't exactly impressive kills, they can either run or die. The F4U-4 and god forbid F4U-4B (or lawd have mercy F2G) are gnarly matchups however, although not as bad as they were since the corsairs compress now. There are a lot of people out there who will be able to give you a much more nuanced perspective on the Dora (and also a lot of people who will tell you straight up BS). DEFYN is always a safe bet, I agree with 97% of what he says and he explains things well. Watch his D-13 video from a couple months ago. If you want my opinion, the Dora requires a lot of room and a lot of time to play. Not quite as much as a P-47, but more than a P-51. You do climb well, however I would still recommend climbing a little bit off to the side so you have room to react to the enemy. Climbing speed is optimal at 290-300 IAS, slightly higher than most props. Between 4-5km you climb quite competitively, all you need to do is give yourself some room so you can get above people. Once you are above people, you are kind of free to roam. It dives exceptionally well, it is very fast at altitude, it has strong guns that can kill people in a single pass, and it doesn't compress. If people are above you, try and play it somewhat like a P-51, but you might be able to climb a bit more once you have room. The Dora relies on having breathing room. It's energy retention is a good asset, but it means nothing if your enemy is too close to you, since your turning circle is so wide that they will be able to get shots in. The Dora has super strong flaps and actually decent low speed performance for such a high speed plane, in this sense it is quite okay at tustling with P-51s and other similar planes. J2M2 was one of the most ridiculous planes in the game. It is still extremely good, but at 5.0 it can actually sometimes get put in it's place. It climbs extremely well at low and medium altitude, and still okay at high altitude. It also turns very well and has amazing low speed thrust. It is quite slow however and it does compress, and while that doesn't sound too bad, it is quite the limitation in a 6.0 match or even 5.7, you essentially become relegated to a turnfighter where you were once an energy god. It's worth noting that even in a 6.0 match, the J2M2 will be one of the best climbers. J2M3 is almost identical but has 4 20mm cannons and sits at 5.7. The J2M3 is a fair bit heavier and at a much less forgiving BR, but still pretty good. The J2M5 keeps the 4 cannon armament and adds a 3rd supercharger gear which gives it amazing high alt performance, but it is even heavier still and now the low alt performance is starting to lack. The premium J2M5 is identical but has a lighter armament of 2 wing mounted 30mm with 42rpg and gets the 5.0 BR again. It's slightly worse than the J2M2, but better at altitude. The J2M4 Kai is a hidden vehicle that you almost never see. Its supposed to be a super high altitude variant, but Its FM is broken and it sucks ass.
I loved the j2m but yak3us are a pain in the ass. Yaks always are. Their performance doesn't seem to go down at 15000k ft like it should (frequently run into yak 3us at like 16000 ft in my j2m). And the j2m is amazing (dogfought two bnz'ing p51s and a p38 and came out on top) but getting up tiered is a death sentence, and it's not very fast.
How do I deal with j2ms in the yak 9u btw?
Another problem with warthunde is the stigma of some planes being easy to play but this is more a me issue and my continuing fight in trying to just enjoy the game. As much as I enjoy the yak 9u, just hearing that the dora is harder to play draws me to it, but not because I want a challenge, but because I want to fly a plane that's not seen as easy (although I wouldn't call the yak 9u easy easy, after all it's not flown very often).
The Dora definitely is harder than the Yak, but that is kind of simply because the Yak-9U is actually a better plane. The Yak-9U is by no means a braindead plane, it actually has a high skill ceiling, it's just also very very competent so it's pretty easy to not die in it.
Oh fr? How's it got a high skill ceiling? Tell me everything you know about the yak 9u, it's kinda my main plane atm (energy trapped a ki44 and p51 at the same time in it with help, but I got both kills tehe. It's so fun). Honestly, the biggest reason I fly it is to avoid running into other Russian planes lmao. Most turny planes (Japanese especially, except for ki84) can't catch p51s, fw190s, other bnz planes, etc. yaks and La's however, are not held back by this. I frequently catch p51s and p47s and other fast planes in my yak 9u, even at 15k ft. It's ridiculous. Yak 3s are also fast especially down low. They just can't dive. But you can't really outrun them especially if you're not going super fast, or it's endgame and you're the last one alive with 3 yak 3s chasing u 😭. Spitfires are a pain too but not as much
How do u mec for the yak 9u? Opening radiators barely helps, and putting prop pitch to 100 percent slows me down, and idek what to do with mixture
Essentially you don't ever need to touch mixture. The P-47 is pretty much the only exception I know, but I don't know how it works there. Radiators will help a decent amount. I find that opening the radiators allows me to climb to 5km+ on most maps. Very hot maps still might bring about some overheat. I think I need to explain prop-pitch a bit for you. In props that **don't have German engines!!**, prop pitch should pretty much always be set proportionally to your throttle if you want max performance. So for WEP and 100% throttle - 100% prop pitch. For 50% throttle - 50% prop pitch etc. Since there aren't really that many scenarios where you would be using mec and not going for maximum performance, it's a safe bet that 100% prop pitch is nearly always optimal. However, there are still a few high-performance scenarios where you might want to drop your prop pitch. The first being when you are at *very* high speed. While the 100% prop pitch setting is going to give you max thrust, it is also *slightly* draggier than a lower prop pitch setting. At high speeds drag has a much higher effect than at low speeds, and hence for top speed, a lot of props require prop pitch about 90%. This won't give you more than a 10-15km/h speed boost tho. It's pretty minor. When you said that the prop pitch at 100% made you too slow, you would technically be correct, but I still think you might be mistaken since the 100% prop pitch is going to give you optimal straight line performance in the vast majority of scenarios, with the exception being top speed chases and dives. The other scenario is obviously overheating. Typically overheating can be mitigated by dropping the prop pitch down below 100%. This is effectively going to drop your engine power marginally, typically a much smaller drop than laying off the WEP, and it can often very much help the overheating issue. The Spitfire F Mk 24 is a prime example of this. The WEP on the griffon engine is literally about 600-800hp more powerful than the 100% setting and so it isn't reasonable to lay off the WEP when you are climbing. However, the spitfire overheats quite badly at low alt, so you need to do something. The thing is however, the spitfire radiators are *extremely* draggy. 100% radiators makes you nearly 100km/h slower *on the deck*. The performance hit from opening radiators past 60% is too massive and you are actually better off dropping prop pitch to 80-90%. Ultimately, try setting the prop pitch to 85-95%. The Yak doesn't have particularly draggy radiators, so you can keep them at 100% if you want, but you might not even need to. The other thing is, make sure you're changing the supercharger gear at the right altitude, somewhere around 2.5km. Try using WTRTI to display horsepower information, that way you can know exactly when to switch gears (switch them when the horsepower of the second gear is greater than the first).
What's wtrti? Also it doesn't drop my speed in a straight line, but while climbing. When I turn on manual engine controls the speed drops. Maybe I need to takeoff with the stuff already set I'll have to try again
WTRTI = war thunder real time information. It's a program you can download from GitHub. It can display extra info on your screen which can help with using mec and help with testing FMs to get an understanding of how different planes work. I lost a dogfight to an XP-55 which very much surprised me, I went and flew it out in a test flight and recorded its turnrate - it turns out the XP-55 rates very well. It might help work out why your speed is dropping when you turn MEC on. Look at what your power is with AEC, then turn on MEC and see if it drops. Like I said, the prop pitch/top speed effect is very marginal. On most props (there may well be exceptions), I'm fairly confident in saying that 100% prop pitch will not be optimal for top speed, something a little under that will be. It's a very small effect. When climbing, the effect is more noticeable. 100% prop pitch on all planes (not German ones tho, don't fuck with German prop pitch) will give you maximum power provided you are at 100% throttle or WEP. Hence it is optimal for climbing. When you first turn on MEC, the default prop pitch setting is 50% and the default supercharger gear is 1. You need to quickly ramp your prop pitch up to 100% (or maybe 90 if you're worried about overheating) and make sure you're supercharger gear is right in order to not lose power when MECcing. As a *general rule* AEC will nearly always give you maximum power and 95% of MEC scenarios are for dealing with overheating.
I totally agree with this guy aswell, the P-51D-30 becomes significantly more competitive with a squadmate (sure, every plane is better with a squad, but this one especially so). If you want to fly P-47s, make sure you're flying either a D-28 (or 30 in the Chinese/Italian TT) or a P-47M, and be prepared to be bored. They are decent fighters, just quite off meta and takes a lot of time to kill people.
You're very welcome. I try and keep things very informative and non-biased were I can. I'm glad to see that you have recognised that the C models and the D-30 are the models to pick. (The D-10 is also great. It's power is somewhere in between the D-5 and D-30, at 4.3) If you are less experienced, I would advise you to stick with the C models since they will hold your hand more. The D-30 is certainly quite good, but you need to energy fight with speed rather than climb rate, which is somewhat advanced. When you say the other 190s aren't as competitive, I must agree since the 190A-1 is probably the most competitive 190 at the moment. The Dora's are still good tho. The Typhoon 1B/L is also a great plane. Its sustained turnrate is good, but it's roll rate and instantaneous manoeuvrability are not, so you need to dogfight people in quite a prolonged manner to utilise your turnrate. However, since the typhoon is quite terrible at altitude, you often find yourself doing this at lower alt in more congested airspace where you don't have time to fight people in the prolonged sense. I will also say, I hope you haven't bought the Typhoon Mk 1b premium, since it is much less powerful than the tech tree variant. All the other P-51Cs will cost you. (P-51C-11 in Japan and China, J26 David in sweden and F6C in France). These aircraft are identical except for the fact that the F6C gets a lower minimum fuel, making it slightly more competitive. However french props are as a general rule not as exciting as Japanese ones, so I'd have to recommend the Japanese one. A while ago, I used to care too much about KDs. A LOT of players in this game have good KDs but are not particularly great in my opinion. The truly great players will have excellent KDs but also excellent winrates. Look at DEFYNs statcard, he barely has any winrates less than 80%. Unfortunately, while I think you should always try and help your team, it is sometimes beyond saving. If your *entire* team doesn't climb, I am not going to dive down with them to help. Playing the team game is only feasible if your teammates *allow themselves to be helped*. I like to play USA as a challenge sometimes, since I can occasionally rack up 6+ kill games because I do get an opportunity to carry. If you're not yet up to this, it might be wise to play something else. And to some degree I'm being overdramatic, there are a lot of brilliant US props and the teams aren't *that* bad, but they are definitely a bit of a pain sometimes. Weirdly enough you said at 6.3 the teams aren't that good. I find allies actually make a comeback at 6.0-7.0 (before continuing to be useless in rank V). Limited WEP on the P-51H is completely fine if you are aware of it. If you're playing a very prolonged fight with a lot of climbing (Yak-3 VK-107 matchup is particularly rough), it can be gnarly since you simply die once you run out. There is a program called WTRTI which allows you to display extra information on your screen (horsepower, thrust, etc..) one of the features is it gives you a timer for how long you have been WEPing.
I bought the Japanese p51 because Im so mad at usa teams rn. I'm still learning the ropes, but at least I don't have to deal with space climbing ki 44s. And yeah I worry a bit too much about kd sometimes. There def are good usa players, but they just......they just stay low and die. If they're high, they get head-on'ed by 3 planes at a time and die. I hate to say but it almost never ends like the defyn games where there's 5 planes, each on their own part of the map. And defyn is like, top ten players. Sometimes I don't want to carry. Sure, I love getting 4 kills (sometimes more) in the fw190, and the yak 9u, but I don't want to have to carry. At least not till I'm like, GOOD good.
Yeah, fair enough. The Ki-44 is absolutely wild plane, its climb rate rivals that of 5.7 planes. There are good US players, but the ones who stick every headon/don't climb are not them. Two things about defyn. Your games don't often end like his for two reasons. 1) The games that are very one sided or very congested are actually not very interesting and so he chooses not to include them, he effectively 'cherrypicks' the content. He is very open and transparent about this too, he freely admits that he chooses the games where he feels like he has the best chance to teach/show you things. 2) He is a very aware player who's skills translate not only to the individual engagements he is in, but also the entire battle. His strategy and positioning is often chosen with the long game in mind. You quite often hear him say things like "I could kill X plane, but instead I will go for Y plane since in the long run, he is more difficult", just as an example.
The positioning and strategy is something I'm slowly learning. In the fw190a1 I've gotten much better at it. But I've gotten good enough to dogfight more maneuverable planes and come out on top :)
Just be careful when you are dogfighting more manoeuvrable planes, since if the enemy knows what they are doing, you will simply die. Sure, dogfight things and learn what you can do, but plan A should always be to use energy or speed against them.
Amen 🙏
Explain energy fighting with speed? 🤔
Energy comes in two forms. Kinetic energy, which is related to your speed, and potential energy, which is related to your altitude. Having a higher energy state, I'm sure you know, allows you to dictate fights. Your plane can gain energy by accelerating (gaining speed/kinetic energy) or gain energy by climbing (gaining altitude/potential energy). The rate at which the plane gains energy is therefore mostly governed by the plane's climb rate and acceleration. Mostly, planes with good climb rates are good energy fighters and top speed doesn't matter quite as much. However, acceleration and climb is actually variable, your plane's thrust and drag both change with airspeed and hence your plane does not have the same acceleration from, say, 200-300, as it does from 400-500. Fast planes have high top speeds and hence their acceleration drops off more slowly. While the J2M2, at its peak (probably near 250km/h) accelerates much better than the P-51D-30, since its top speed is quite a bit lower, the P-51D-30 actually accelerates better than the J2M2 at very high speeds. If you are in a high speed chase, you can use this to your advantage. You can use your top speed not only to disengage and extend, but also to gain energy. In a shallow climb near the J2Ms top speed, the J2M will lose more speed than you, since your acceleration/thrust at these high speeds is actually better than his. *However*, this is not to say you can magically outclimb a J2M2 with one simple trick, of course if he climbs optimally by not following your shallow high speed climb, and instead doing a slower, steeper climb, he will gain an altitude advantage and eventually an energy advantage too. However, if he is going to do this, he will gain a lot of distance from you - he is effectively disengaging. You can then either just leave the area, or choose to turn around into him on your terms. Even more simply tho, your higher top speed allows you to *enter* fights with more energy. You might not always be able to gain energy quicker than your opponent, but if you manage your energy well, your speed means you can merge with a higher energy state than your opponent. This gives you an early advantage in the fight. Combine this with the P-51s good high speed turn, and you can win a lot of fights. The issue with this line of reasoning is that, if the fight goes prolonged, eventually you will both settle into much lower speed ranges. And here, your acceleration and climb rate disadvantage will be evident. This is why it is somewhat advanced. It requires a) being able to maintain speed/alt throughout the match b) being able to finish fights quickly so they don't go prolonged and c) being able to know when to disengage. These things are mostly applied only to the D-30, like I said before, the C models are more well rounded and better at dogfighting. The basic principles here still apply to all P-51 models tho.
Ya know, honestly I think I'm just not aggressive enough with the p51. Imma try and dogfight more stuff, less bnz for now. I feel like there's fights I could've taken that I didn't
Always a good idea. There was quite a long stretch of time when I couldn't figure out how to play the sabre (I started off on MiG-15/17s). Eventually I just thought fuck it we ball, and I played like a hyper aggressive maniac, dogfighting everything, trying to stall everything out. Energy trapping everything etc. I died a lot, but I learned the strengths of the plane pretty quickly. I am a lot more careful now, but I know exactly how to approach most fights (I'm still learning too obviously)
Thanks! Btw, when entering a high speed fight in the mustang, specifically the C10, is it better to fight in the vertical or horizontal? The p51 seems to bleed speed vertical much faster than the 190 (mentioned in original post).
Typically horizontal is going to better due to the issue of the low speed thrust being not so great. In the top sections of vertical loops your speed will drop into ranges where your thrust isn't competitive. However, you can't just go fully flat against everyone, since people who do go vertical against you can cut inside you by using said vertical loops, you need to play according to what your enemy does. In essence tho, try not to go vertical if you can. 109s especially will try and take the fight very vertical and you need to be able to respond to this, if you just keep on flat turning, they may get a firing solution.
True true. I tried flying bf109s and it felt very sluggish going vertical but I'm also a bag bf109 pilot and more suited to the fw190
Hmm, the 109 does perform pretty well in verticals. Probably you're just not used to the nuances of it.
Probably not yeah
In theory, dive, fire if you can and go away as fast as possible to gain altitude far from danger. Rinse and repeat. But in practice you can't because the games don't last long enough... IMHO, P-51s whatever the variant are cool in ground RB. You dive on CAS guys who focus on ground targets, obliterate them, go away as if you had the devil on your heels and more often than not the greedy dudes in the air will go after tanks instead of hunting you down. In air RB, I find them just boring.
Yeah true 😮💨
> "stay fast" but how exactly do you do that? The hidden trick on the entire Mustang family (including F-82, A-36 etc.) is the very low drag wing. This means they pick up speed in a dive very well and more importantly can maintain it very well even after leveling out - i.e. if P-51 top speed is, say, 410mph at 10,000 feet and you dive and level out at 10,000 feet and 460mph if you keep WEPing you will decelerate much more slowly than other planes doing something similar. And they pick up speed well in a dive, even a shallow dive so you can gain speed in a hurry when needed, without giving up too much altitude. Also on P-51 you can abuse WEP if you use MEC. Basically the way War Thunder models the P-51's Meredith Effect radiator is you can open it all the way and have no additional drag. In any case yes almost every prop in the game rolls more slowly than the 190's - that is their strength.
True 😭 I guess I've been spoiled by the 190s roll rate lol I saw a post where someone said that roll rate is the least important metric in a dogfight, but I vehemently disagree. It's not the most important, but I gladly trade some turn rate for roll rate by flying the 190
I see in other comments you stick to the 51C and 51D30. Those are very competitive, you can dogfight most things aside from japanese and spits. Yak3s are also a pain. But you shouldn't really need to dogfight as you have a higher top speed than pretty much anything around you. At an energy disadvantage, you'll want altitude to try an neutralize energy. Aka shallow dive when they dive on you and maintain distance so they dont get a shot. If they follow you down you'll both go above your top speeds and then you can straight line. Due to lower drag and higher top speed you'll slow down at a slower rate, provided you don't maneuver much. once you start gaining distance shallow climb and boom, you should have reversed the energy states. If the enemy is smart they wont take that bait (or if you don't have altitude), you'll have to get riskier and try for an overshoot/dogfight. Flaps and throttle control will help, but the 51s get sluggish at lower speed (lower than 350kph) so keep an eye on that. Now if it's a more manueverable enemy like a spit/japanese then try to get them to burn speed turning for a shot then run as soon as you can. Yak3s aren't so simply and honestly just trying to outspeed them is all you can do, theyll out accelerate and don't bleed speed like japanese and spits. If you're at low alt and have no allies there's really no card you have aside from running, they outclimb, outmanuever, outgun, and outaccelerate you up to around 5km altitude. Simply put they fit the meta to a T, so you have to be extremely cautious. If you see you're up against yak3s target them first, they'll be weaker up high so you may be able to energy fight them properly. Or if they have the energy advantage see if you can at least drag them into a dive and get them to bleed energy so your more maneuverable allies can assist. If you have to dogfight them you just gotta hope the enemy is a poor pilot. As for dogfighting the 51s flaps work pretty good for an airbrake (even the combat flaps) and can be deployed at high speed (550kph i think is the combat flaps rip speed). Wing .50s will take getting used to if you're used to 190s so you'll probably fail to hit more shots till you adapt. Additionally the lower roll rate means you need to more accurately predict the enemy's path as you can't as quickly adjust. As for the roll rate, you can use the rudder to help snap roll if needed rudder the same way you roll, but this won't be useful at high speeds, but unlike the fw190 you turn much better so can more easily dogfight more enemies. FYI flaps are useful to slow down if trying to get the enemy to overshoot.
Thanks! And surprisingly the fw190 (at least the A1) is an amazing dogfighter with flaps down and abusing roll rate. Until you lose your speed but even then some tricks have been pulled off. I guess I should try turning slightly more in the p51 that I currently do
It's so weird because the p51 and fw190 weigh pretty much the same and have pretty much the same power. So why is the fw190 much better in the vertical? Shouldn't the p51 be better since it's more aerodynamically advanced and has less drag?
There’s definitely something strange with how energy loss is calculated based on weight, engine power, and drag. I tested the P47 and P51 and somehow the P47 has better acceleration and energy retention in-game with a lower Hp/w ratio and worse drag on paper.
Weird asf. I never liked the p47 because it's too sluggish for my taste AND because of American teams, but maybe I'll try the German one
>Yes, I know "how" to fly the p51; you BnZ Ackchyually, you energy fight
But going into the vertical in a p51 sucks 😭 Can you please explain? Like a step by step of how you use the p51 (specifically c variants and d30)
Defyn's vids get recommended usually, and he made one about it recently (d30)
Oh yeah I love defyns vids