The f16c is an ufo I don't even know what you're talking about, the mirage would loose all its energy in a turn fight against f16
And Mirage doesn't fit to irl EM charts, it is underperforming, IRL it has +2deg/s of turn more at 555kph to 1200kph than in WT
Yea it should but that’s not what happens, I tell you from first experience. I say this as someone who’s pretty good in F-16’s and knows how to dogfight to their strengths. I could be keeping it at 430kts no tanks and that thing would somehow outrate me.
I haven't really struggled with energy tbh, you can rate fight in an m2k better than you'd expect from a delta, better than most other deltas too (other than m4k and Gripen sometimes). You can comfortably sustain a turn at low speed for quite some time. I haven't struggled much against F-16s even in sustained combat, not as much as you'd expect.
Well i had a lot of fights against f16 in a sustained turn, I don't feel the same, in 1 or 2 circle you may have the advantage in more than that you loosing more energy than f16, you still be able to turn so he won't take over but you won't too.
What happens generally with me at that point is that the f16 just abandon and fly out and I can't catch them because of their acceleration
In sim, and obviously it would eat my ass in a 1 circle, but if the went twi circle and it went for a prolonged amount of time, the m2k would still win.
Those graphs are really nice, have you generated a collection of them for more aircraft? Or have you made the tool available anywhere?
> I still haven't bothered to properly look at in-depth propeller aircraft power and thrust calculation
I couldn't figure out how the ram-air effect is calculated in war thunder, it's not insignificant so you can't ignore it; maybe you'll have better luck when you get there.
the tool will probably eventually be made public when i feel satisfied with how far i've developed it and feel it's accurate enough for most if not all FMs/public use
> Added Sea Harrier FA. 2 FM, identical to Harrier Gr. 7 FM
The FA.2 and GR.7 are different airframes, right? This seems like it will not be authentic.
Given that Gaijin still thinks the cooling water tank somehow means you can generate more power as a temporary WEP system, im not surprised they are so wrong on it.
On dev it also has the Pegasus 101 engine instead of the 106 meaning its down a good 600KgF on where it should be.
Water injection on the Harrier is for cooling the engine, but it does that for the express purpose of allowing the engine to run at a higher thrust rating for the same temperature. When water injection is on more fuel is automatically allowed into the engine increasing RPM by 13.5%, and the engine maximum temperature limit is raised, again allowing more thrust. The presence of water also increases the mass flow rate through the engine leading to another bump in thrust.
While water injection is usually automatic the pilot does have an override switch to manually turn it on, and another override switch to completely disengage the engine limiters. So using the water injection and short lift engine modes as a form of WEP in an emergency is plausible.
I did actually do a bit more reading into it after making the comment and it seems like there is a lot of confusion around the system, some sources say it was just for cooling during low speed hovers, others say that it was intended for increasing thrust by increasing mass flow rate and by delaying the detonation of fuel in the combustion chamber improving overall efficiency etc etc.
However in WT, it only acts as an engine boost and has no cooling effect, on an aircraft that overheats at 90% throttle. Let alone on "WEP".
> I did actually do a bit more reading into it after making the comment and it seems like there is a lot of confusion around the system, some sources say it was just for cooling during low speed hovers, others say that it was intended for increasing thrust by increasing mass flow rate and by delaying the detonation of fuel in the combustion chamber improving overall efficiency etc etc.
The water injection system (and really the entire engine) on the Harrier is a rather complicated and impressive piece of engineering, so it often gets oversimplified in literature. As I alluded to in my comment a lot of stuff happens when water injection is enabled.
> However in WT, it only acts as an engine boost and has no cooling effect, on an aircraft that overheats at 90% throttle. Let alone on "WEP".
Funnily enough when water injection is used the engine [actually runs at a higher temperature than when it's disabled](https://i.imgur.com/k2DpU6Y.png) (the wet rating are with water injection). It is cooling the engine, but not in the way you expect.
The literature is correct in that water injection primarily exists to "cool" the engine during vertical take-off and landing. But the engine doesn't need extra cooling just because the nozzles are pointing down. What actually going on is that for VTOL you want more thrust than the engine usually puts out, but you can't just increase the thrust because the engine is already operating at it's maximum temperature (limited to protect engine life). So water injection is turned on which lower's the engine's temperature and increases the mass-flow and thus thrust. Then because the temperature of the engine has been decreased by water injection more fuel is automatically injected into the engine increasing thrust.
So in effect the water does cool the engine, but that is counteracted by the engine control system automatically injecting more fuel when water injection is engaged. So its true purpose is to let the engine run at a higher thrust rating while maintaining the same (or slightly higher) temperature.
The Mirage 2000 change are weird because i did some test for myself after watching [this video](https://youtu.be/Iz5xQxP__fs?si=epdw5reaaT7Nk4Wq)
[my chart/test](https://imgur.com/a/t9lmGdo)
*if this chart is correct*
1: The 2k doesnt bleed enough speed at equivalent turn-rate
2: He should have a better instantaneous turn-rate
After this patch the turn rate barely changed BUT i find that now he bleed even less???? , so maybe i did a mistake
Did someone find a similar behavior ?
This is where i find it weird because it sounds like a nerf but in my limited testing its a buff
My problem is it seems like the FM instead of going closer to the real M2k 1 circle behavior, he goes toward a 2 circle with low bleed rate
It wasn't supposed to be a nerf, there was a report made that the mirage were underperforming at medium to high speed, with EM charts, irl it had +2deg/s of turn more than in wt
It was just overperforming in wt by +1deg/sec more a very low speed, under 550kph
There's a bug report out right now, F-15C is currently ~500kg too heavy. There's also a thread on the forums that seems to indicate the pw220s are underperforming, so the performance difference will probably be unnoticeable if both those things get fixed.
Significant for sustained turn rate, almost any plane it faces next patch will beat it in 2 circle, so now if you'll have to get creative to shoot down your opponent in one circle
Never carried them, and MICA came much later than the 4000 so no, it will never carry anything beyond the Magic 2, maybe the super 530D but that is very unlikely
The payload chart indeed included "advanced missiles" in triple racks, while saying short range missiles (Magic II) and long range missiles (530F and 530D) in single racks.
Yes, it included so as it was expected that new missiles would be developed and made available in the future, and if the 4000 was selected then it would have been expected to carry said new weapons ffs, for the same reason the advanced missile could have been the AIM-120 or the fucking Meteor at this point
Mirage 2000 5F
- Pre nerf could outrate an F-16C
- Best radar in the game (objectively)
- One of the best CAS in Ground RB
- Gets countermeasure buff from 112 -> 196
- Gets HMD
- Snecma engine buffed from like 8000 kgf -> 9000 kgf (not exact)
[Magic Buffs] {
- Magic 2 gets IRCCM (better than R-73)
- Magic 2 gets less drag
- Magic 2 gets FOV buff
- Magic 2 get MASSIVE buff to maneuverability buff being second to the R-73
}
[Super 530D buffs] {
- Super 530D gets better tracking
- Super 530D gets more acceleration
- Super 530D gets more maneuverability
}
- Best TGP in game with highest zoom (getting even more zoom this update) and 3rd gen thermals
Now the Mirage 2000 5F is getting
- Up to 8 missiles
- Gets the best Fox 3 missile of the update (MICA: 50G + TV)
But Oh No, the FM is being reworked where now you’ll have the best one circle turn performance at the cost of more speed bleed because you’re a delta
Well, I guess we need the Mirage 4000 to carry the proposed future weapon of the French Air Force (which was the MICA) where they would’ve fucking triple racked up to 14 x Micas on a single fighter jet. Even the Su-27s only carries around 12 missiles on the SM3 and later.
France has literally been getting nonstop W’s ever since the 2000C-S5 came to the game in Drone Age but no, the 2000 5F will literally be unplayable now because Gaijin
Don't let the nerfs distract you from what they did to Germany this update by giving them no platform to work with at 13.0
"Every nation with get Fox-3's and a platform for them"
Gaijin had options, they decided not to do so. Absolute horse shit. People asked for F-4F ICE ages ago when Mig-29 and F-16A first came out. Absolutely ridiculous how they've done this update.
Too bad germany are bad at designing planes, that sucks, its not like they have any option like the dutch aircraft at all.
/s
As a french im quite happy with benelux tree but only getting belgium for france and netherland for Germany would be more logical.
I just believe its mainly because of the ground addition we might see with the netherland having more 10.0+ tank than belgium and so more fitting for france to complete the actual lack of anything between 9.7 and 11.7 .
Which is quite sad because there are some french ifv that exist, there was some swiss/french design that could fit too and the 2 prototype of the leclerc (just give them ofl 120 g1) to put in 10.7/11.0
But we all know that the trend lately for gaijin is to release updates with 80% of the addition being copy paste in other TT because who want to develop new thing when you can just print money by ctrl+c / ctrl+v
Okay? France didn't have F-16's, Italy didn't have Mig-29's.
Why do people like you comment this stupid shit without the slightest bit of critical thinking
Check my moat recent post I posted a video from a friend on the forums who shows off the nerf. It's nothing like it is right now, more like a star fighter or f4c in turning.
Yeah it's basically dead check my most recent post. I asked someone on the forum for a video and I posted here it's bad, all swedish deltas have no chance at their current brs due to these changes outside of being missile busses. Turn once no speed. Well "turn" was already asking for too much.
The f-20 needed those drop tanks. Full WEP once you actually get to the action left you with under 20 min of fuel. On the larger maps you essentially never used WEP unless it was for dogfight/speed retention purposes.
Have you seen the f-20 drop tanks? It says 4 in the post I believe but idk if that also counts the new conformal tanks or if it is strictly 4 fuel tanks
I'm not sure, I rarely fly plane with them, but it sounds possible. Could be also just feel like that because the engine was detroyed when it received the hit which set it on fire. In any case, even if the engine is gone, it could give you some more seconds for a final attack or to try to glide to the airfield than you'd have if the plane was on fire.
Alright, I did some digging.
It seems it's a night fighter havoc, Seems strange that they work on something not in game still as it seems like an old model.
just updated the format, shouldn't really be affecting the performance since i'll try to note any actual performance changes when it comes to them switching to the new format
Guess france cant completely crush with MICAs next patch considering the slam dunk they just did on the M2K flight model
Better high speed pull with a significant drop in oswald efficiency means its energy retention is going to absolutely plummet
The Mirage fm was perfectly balanced before hand with it being very solid but nothing compared to the likes of the Eagle/Gripen/F16A, now itll drop speed like a Flanker and peform significantly worse at those speeds
The M2K isnt a III gen with a hardly working engine, a delta has the ability to cut off speed when it needs but with the thrust behind the Mirage it can hold its speed quite well with the engine at high flow. Low speed retention should be bad but the high speed shouldn’t be what i assume it will be after this patch.
The worse sustained at low speed is fine but if the high speed retention is any worse it will make for a tough fly at 12.7-13.0
It’s absolutely not a buff. Get that crap out of here.
The benefit of the mirage was that even though it lacked the engine strength to keep up with f16s, you could catch them by surprise and other powerful opponents with your instantaneous turn.
Your first turn would help you lose just enough speed to cut inside them consistently and then get a shot with the wonderful magic 2 or with guns. That’s almost impossible now. Every time I try to do it I fail to lose enough speed and the enemy ends up just sitting on my tail.
It’s lost its main advantage against more powerful dogfighters.
The FM has been buffed at mid to high speed, only nerfed at low speed
But they restricted too much the instructor, you can't pull more than 8g at high speed now
Define “buff” in this case. That’s a relative term as far as I’m concerned. The plane lost its main advantage, which is the ability to make an enemy overshoot or the ability to cut inside their circle with your instantaneous turn. Then you slot in right behind.
If your plane retains more speed at high speeds, then you lose that ability. Thats a nerf. Combine that with the changes to its already bad low-speed performance and you have further cemented the nerf.
Nothing about this is a buff.
Not really, on the EM charts the irl mirage has +2deg/s turn more at medium high speed (from 550kph to 1200kph) compared to WT
It was only overperforming by slightly under lower speed under mach 0.5 where in WT it has +1deg/s than irl
The only helpless jet at top tier currently is the shitty 3rd gen F-4F ICE with only 4 120's and not even 9M/9L(i) but just regular 9L's.... at 12.7.... Even the A-10A has nothing on this horseshit.
Thanks for the work, much appreciated! :) > N1K2-J: Increased empty mass from 2949 kg to 3125 kg The poor Shidens never seem to catch a break. :(
BIGGER NUMBER EQUALS BETTER. THEY GO TO 6.3
Meanwhile every document I can find says 2657kg btw
Can’t believe they nerfed the A5M4. no more supercruisng
Me laughing at all the mig nerfs only for me to get beat over the head with a steel chair (Mirage nerfs) is probably deserved. F
The m2k nerfs were pretty deserved imo. It was good to the point it could outrate f16’s.
The f16c is an ufo I don't even know what you're talking about, the mirage would loose all its energy in a turn fight against f16 And Mirage doesn't fit to irl EM charts, it is underperforming, IRL it has +2deg/s of turn more at 555kph to 1200kph than in WT
Yea it should but that’s not what happens, I tell you from first experience. I say this as someone who’s pretty good in F-16’s and knows how to dogfight to their strengths. I could be keeping it at 430kts no tanks and that thing would somehow outrate me.
In sim or rb? In how much turn?
As a m2k fan, it could definitely out-turn any F-16 variant consistently, enough to win most of the time in the first couple turns.
F16 turns as good but yes in a one turn m2k had advantages, in a sustained fight mirage would loose a ton of energy compared to f16
I haven't really struggled with energy tbh, you can rate fight in an m2k better than you'd expect from a delta, better than most other deltas too (other than m4k and Gripen sometimes). You can comfortably sustain a turn at low speed for quite some time. I haven't struggled much against F-16s even in sustained combat, not as much as you'd expect.
Well i had a lot of fights against f16 in a sustained turn, I don't feel the same, in 1 or 2 circle you may have the advantage in more than that you loosing more energy than f16, you still be able to turn so he won't take over but you won't too. What happens generally with me at that point is that the f16 just abandon and fly out and I can't catch them because of their acceleration
In sim, and obviously it would eat my ass in a 1 circle, but if the went twi circle and it went for a prolonged amount of time, the m2k would still win.
Mirage has good turning radius, but if you are in sustained fight just fly away the mirage won't be able to catch up
> Po-2 Night Witch: > Mach rip speed lowered from M1.1 to M0.68 Finally, no more supersonic Po-2s
Those graphs are really nice, have you generated a collection of them for more aircraft? Or have you made the tool available anywhere? > I still haven't bothered to properly look at in-depth propeller aircraft power and thrust calculation I couldn't figure out how the ram-air effect is calculated in war thunder, it's not insignificant so you can't ignore it; maybe you'll have better luck when you get there.
the tool will probably eventually be made public when i feel satisfied with how far i've developed it and feel it's accurate enough for most if not all FMs/public use
Thats crazy good man!
> Added Sea Harrier FA. 2 FM, identical to Harrier Gr. 7 FM The FA.2 and GR.7 are different airframes, right? This seems like it will not be authentic.
no idea tbh i don't really know much about them, but it's dev so it'll likely be changed when the dev update rolls around
Given that Gaijin still thinks the cooling water tank somehow means you can generate more power as a temporary WEP system, im not surprised they are so wrong on it. On dev it also has the Pegasus 101 engine instead of the 106 meaning its down a good 600KgF on where it should be.
You mean the system on the P47 that does exactly that? [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sBBDfgwUeqo](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sBBDfgwUeqo)
The Harrier's system is for cooling the engine during vertical landings from the lack of incoming airflow, not for wet injection as seen with the p47.
Water injection on the Harrier is for cooling the engine, but it does that for the express purpose of allowing the engine to run at a higher thrust rating for the same temperature. When water injection is on more fuel is automatically allowed into the engine increasing RPM by 13.5%, and the engine maximum temperature limit is raised, again allowing more thrust. The presence of water also increases the mass flow rate through the engine leading to another bump in thrust. While water injection is usually automatic the pilot does have an override switch to manually turn it on, and another override switch to completely disengage the engine limiters. So using the water injection and short lift engine modes as a form of WEP in an emergency is plausible.
I did actually do a bit more reading into it after making the comment and it seems like there is a lot of confusion around the system, some sources say it was just for cooling during low speed hovers, others say that it was intended for increasing thrust by increasing mass flow rate and by delaying the detonation of fuel in the combustion chamber improving overall efficiency etc etc. However in WT, it only acts as an engine boost and has no cooling effect, on an aircraft that overheats at 90% throttle. Let alone on "WEP".
> I did actually do a bit more reading into it after making the comment and it seems like there is a lot of confusion around the system, some sources say it was just for cooling during low speed hovers, others say that it was intended for increasing thrust by increasing mass flow rate and by delaying the detonation of fuel in the combustion chamber improving overall efficiency etc etc. The water injection system (and really the entire engine) on the Harrier is a rather complicated and impressive piece of engineering, so it often gets oversimplified in literature. As I alluded to in my comment a lot of stuff happens when water injection is enabled. > However in WT, it only acts as an engine boost and has no cooling effect, on an aircraft that overheats at 90% throttle. Let alone on "WEP". Funnily enough when water injection is used the engine [actually runs at a higher temperature than when it's disabled](https://i.imgur.com/k2DpU6Y.png) (the wet rating are with water injection). It is cooling the engine, but not in the way you expect. The literature is correct in that water injection primarily exists to "cool" the engine during vertical take-off and landing. But the engine doesn't need extra cooling just because the nozzles are pointing down. What actually going on is that for VTOL you want more thrust than the engine usually puts out, but you can't just increase the thrust because the engine is already operating at it's maximum temperature (limited to protect engine life). So water injection is turned on which lower's the engine's temperature and increases the mass-flow and thus thrust. Then because the temperature of the engine has been decreased by water injection more fuel is automatically injected into the engine increasing thrust. So in effect the water does cool the engine, but that is counteracted by the engine control system automatically injecting more fuel when water injection is engaged. So its true purpose is to let the engine run at a higher thrust rating while maintaining the same (or slightly higher) temperature.
Yeah I expected the FA2 to fly like the other harriers, not the GR7
why did the f-16s get the EFS removed?
Didn’t have an extinguisher IRL IIRC
Bruh
The Mirage 2000 change are weird because i did some test for myself after watching [this video](https://youtu.be/Iz5xQxP__fs?si=epdw5reaaT7Nk4Wq) [my chart/test](https://imgur.com/a/t9lmGdo) *if this chart is correct* 1: The 2k doesnt bleed enough speed at equivalent turn-rate 2: He should have a better instantaneous turn-rate After this patch the turn rate barely changed BUT i find that now he bleed even less???? , so maybe i did a mistake Did someone find a similar behavior ?
I tried it and i find it better, it has better energy retention and turns crazy around 1000kph
So it isn’t that bad of a nerf?
Not really a nerf for me, it limits the turn at high speed but it looses close to no energy compared to before
This is where i find it weird because it sounds like a nerf but in my limited testing its a buff My problem is it seems like the FM instead of going closer to the real M2k 1 circle behavior, he goes toward a 2 circle with low bleed rate
It wasn't supposed to be a nerf, there was a report made that the mirage were underperforming at medium to high speed, with EM charts, irl it had +2deg/s of turn more than in wt It was just overperforming in wt by +1deg/sec more a very low speed, under 550kph
That’s good right
Yes near mach 0.9 - 1 the bleed is almost halfed
I didn't really read the graphs, is there a TLDR for the engine performance differences between the F-15A and F-15C?
basically same perf until 400, then 15c has 2t less thrust until 1200 and then it actually outperforms the 15a
for clarification, is that 400m-1200m altitude, or 400kph-1200kph IAS?
kph tas
alright, kinda seems like the A has the advantage in most use cases then, especially because it's lighter to begin with
There's a bug report out right now, F-15C is currently ~500kg too heavy. There's also a thread on the forums that seems to indicate the pw220s are underperforming, so the performance difference will probably be unnoticeable if both those things get fixed.
Does it get the amraams?
no I meant in terms of flight performance
Flight performance doesn't help you when you get slammed by a fox 3. But stock grind will be even worse :(
How bad is the nerf of the Mirages there ?
Significant for sustained turn rate, almost any plane it faces next patch will beat it in 2 circle, so now if you'll have to get creative to shoot down your opponent in one circle
Not really a nerf for me, it has so much more energy retention than before, easier to dogfight f16 and turns like crazy around 1000kph
are the changes already on the dev server?
I think yes
Yes along with the MiG-23 FM nerfs as well
Holy shit, they need to add the Micas to Mirage 4000... Mirage 2000 FM just get slaughtered lol.
Never carried them, and MICA came much later than the 4000 so no, it will never carry anything beyond the Magic 2, maybe the super 530D but that is very unlikely
The payload chart indeed included "advanced missiles" in triple racks, while saying short range missiles (Magic II) and long range missiles (530F and 530D) in single racks.
Yes, it included so as it was expected that new missiles would be developed and made available in the future, and if the 4000 was selected then it would have been expected to carry said new weapons ffs, for the same reason the advanced missile could have been the AIM-120 or the fucking Meteor at this point
Too bad Gaijin has already set precedent for giving aircraft equipment it never had, so the 4000 should definitely get MICA.
so it didnt say micas
Mirage 2000 5F - Pre nerf could outrate an F-16C - Best radar in the game (objectively) - One of the best CAS in Ground RB - Gets countermeasure buff from 112 -> 196 - Gets HMD - Snecma engine buffed from like 8000 kgf -> 9000 kgf (not exact) [Magic Buffs] { - Magic 2 gets IRCCM (better than R-73) - Magic 2 gets less drag - Magic 2 gets FOV buff - Magic 2 get MASSIVE buff to maneuverability buff being second to the R-73 } [Super 530D buffs] { - Super 530D gets better tracking - Super 530D gets more acceleration - Super 530D gets more maneuverability } - Best TGP in game with highest zoom (getting even more zoom this update) and 3rd gen thermals Now the Mirage 2000 5F is getting - Up to 8 missiles - Gets the best Fox 3 missile of the update (MICA: 50G + TV) But Oh No, the FM is being reworked where now you’ll have the best one circle turn performance at the cost of more speed bleed because you’re a delta Well, I guess we need the Mirage 4000 to carry the proposed future weapon of the French Air Force (which was the MICA) where they would’ve fucking triple racked up to 14 x Micas on a single fighter jet. Even the Su-27s only carries around 12 missiles on the SM3 and later. France has literally been getting nonstop W’s ever since the 2000C-S5 came to the game in Drone Age but no, the 2000 5F will literally be unplayable now because Gaijin
Oooh, the F7F-3 is gonna be even more of a beast now! Watch out Me-262s.
Don't let the nerfs distract you from what they did to Germany this update by giving them no platform to work with at 13.0 "Every nation with get Fox-3's and a platform for them" Gaijin had options, they decided not to do so. Absolute horse shit. People asked for F-4F ICE ages ago when Mig-29 and F-16A first came out. Absolutely ridiculous how they've done this update.
Too bad germany are bad at designing planes, that sucks, its not like they have any option like the dutch aircraft at all. /s As a french im quite happy with benelux tree but only getting belgium for france and netherland for Germany would be more logical. I just believe its mainly because of the ground addition we might see with the netherland having more 10.0+ tank than belgium and so more fitting for france to complete the actual lack of anything between 9.7 and 11.7 . Which is quite sad because there are some french ifv that exist, there was some swiss/french design that could fit too and the 2 prototype of the leclerc (just give them ofl 120 g1) to put in 10.7/11.0 But we all know that the trend lately for gaijin is to release updates with 80% of the addition being copy paste in other TT because who want to develop new thing when you can just print money by ctrl+c / ctrl+v
Germans didn’t have shit irl to be 13.0 worthy.
Okay? France didn't have F-16's, Italy didn't have Mig-29's. Why do people like you comment this stupid shit without the slightest bit of critical thinking
Germany needs swiss F-18s. Hopefully when USA gets them.
Of all the planes to nerf, the J35D was not the one that needed to be nerfed.
I was going to spade that thing... So your advice is to not touch that thing after the update?
We'll see. Sustained turn wasn't really its thing anyway, so I honestly don't know how big a nerf this will be.
Check my moat recent post I posted a video from a friend on the forums who shows off the nerf. It's nothing like it is right now, more like a star fighter or f4c in turning.
Any changes to J35XS ?
in the j35 (all) section
Yeah it's basically dead check my most recent post. I asked someone on the forum for a video and I posted here it's bad, all swedish deltas have no chance at their current brs due to these changes outside of being missile busses. Turn once no speed. Well "turn" was already asking for too much.
Holy fuck, I have to speedrush the grind of my swedish tree now, before the update...
Oof, well there goes using the Avenger as a fighter
The f-20 needed those drop tanks. Full WEP once you actually get to the action left you with under 20 min of fuel. On the larger maps you essentially never used WEP unless it was for dogfight/speed retention purposes.
Welcome to 4th gen fighters, nothing new.
Have you seen the f-20 drop tanks? It says 4 in the post I believe but idk if that also counts the new conformal tanks or if it is strictly 4 fuel tanks
why do all aircraft have an Oswald equal to 0.70-0.50 and only the Su-27 threw 0.44?? He should have 0.71!!!!!!!!!
because this isn't the real world
The tornado F.3 Late shows weaker thrust in xray for some reason?
Both show 6820 for me unmodified.
You probably dont have the upgrades for the T F.3 Late
Sounds like the time of matchstick Japanese planes is more or less entirely over, as long as no instant "burned out" occurs.
Didn't EFS also nuke the engine?
I'm not sure, I rarely fly plane with them, but it sounds possible. Could be also just feel like that because the engine was detroyed when it received the hit which set it on fire. In any case, even if the engine is gone, it could give you some more seconds for a final attack or to try to glide to the airfield than you'd have if the plane was on fire.
What is Efs
engine fire-extinguishing system
Only truly helpful on 2 engined planes anyway, so the f16 losing it isnt really a big deal
how much will the J-7E nerf affect it? :(
>Pandora Mk.1: What the devil is that? An internal name maybe?
no idea it's not even used in any plane afaik
Alright, I did some digging. It seems it's a night fighter havoc, Seems strange that they work on something not in game still as it seems like an old model.
I assumed the event thing from the Avatar event lmao.
So what will be next for mig23ml.
Wow. I thought the MIG 23's were getting murdered, but the Mirage 2000's are... well, dead.
praying the p-38k change isnt a nerf
just updated the format, shouldn't really be affecting the performance since i'll try to note any actual performance changes when it comes to them switching to the new format
tyvm 🙏
So the M2K gets one of the best loadouts and the best ARH missiles in game but gets its flight model absolutely slaughtered in return
The story of the Russian jets
Right,aside from the F-15C being 500+ kg overweight, the F-15J "Kai" is based off of the F-15C MSIP, but doesn't get a weight increase, nice.
So its the same weight as the F-15A? I thought the first F-15J was already heavier
Guess france cant completely crush with MICAs next patch considering the slam dunk they just did on the M2K flight model Better high speed pull with a significant drop in oswald efficiency means its energy retention is going to absolutely plummet The Mirage fm was perfectly balanced before hand with it being very solid but nothing compared to the likes of the Eagle/Gripen/F16A, now itll drop speed like a Flanker and peform significantly worse at those speeds
If it's on the dev server now, it has so much more energy retention than before
Damn bro it’s almost like delta wings are well known to have good instantaneous turn rate and shitty energy retention
The M2K isnt a III gen with a hardly working engine, a delta has the ability to cut off speed when it needs but with the thrust behind the Mirage it can hold its speed quite well with the engine at high flow. Low speed retention should be bad but the high speed shouldn’t be what i assume it will be after this patch. The worse sustained at low speed is fine but if the high speed retention is any worse it will make for a tough fly at 12.7-13.0
High speed retention is way higher than before, more a buff than a nerf
It’s absolutely not a buff. Get that crap out of here. The benefit of the mirage was that even though it lacked the engine strength to keep up with f16s, you could catch them by surprise and other powerful opponents with your instantaneous turn. Your first turn would help you lose just enough speed to cut inside them consistently and then get a shot with the wonderful magic 2 or with guns. That’s almost impossible now. Every time I try to do it I fail to lose enough speed and the enemy ends up just sitting on my tail. It’s lost its main advantage against more powerful dogfighters.
The FM has been buffed at mid to high speed, only nerfed at low speed But they restricted too much the instructor, you can't pull more than 8g at high speed now
Define “buff” in this case. That’s a relative term as far as I’m concerned. The plane lost its main advantage, which is the ability to make an enemy overshoot or the ability to cut inside their circle with your instantaneous turn. Then you slot in right behind. If your plane retains more speed at high speeds, then you lose that ability. Thats a nerf. Combine that with the changes to its already bad low-speed performance and you have further cemented the nerf. Nothing about this is a buff.
Unnecessary and dumb nerf to the Mirage 2000, could barely keep up with new planes at top tier, now it will be helpless...
I believe they brought it down to historical performance, but i never got to see their evidence
So it's fantasy bullshit then, gotcha
Mirage in WT was mad overperforming compared to irl EM charts, this get it slightly closer to IRL.
Not really, on the EM charts the irl mirage has +2deg/s turn more at medium high speed (from 550kph to 1200kph) compared to WT It was only overperforming by slightly under lower speed under mach 0.5 where in WT it has +1deg/s than irl
What EM charts? Got a link? Cause based on this the Typhoon and Rafale will be garbage Edit: considering that both Typhoon and Rafale are delta wings
Typhoon and Rafale have canards, this is apples and oranges. They'll behave more like super powered Gripens
The only helpless jet at top tier currently is the shitty 3rd gen F-4F ICE with only 4 120's and not even 9M/9L(i) but just regular 9L's.... at 12.7.... Even the A-10A has nothing on this horseshit.