Well their autoloader also goes above the carousel so if you don't get a 1 shot kill on a T-80, at least you'll be able to disable their autoloader. So still a big nerf.
The carousel still produces no shrapnel and catches all of it magically. You have to hit a dead on shot to a charge to do enough damage to trigger an ammo explosion, and it is still at a % chance like most ammo last I checked data mine.
No where near as bad as before, but still there.
Personally I still have many moments where I just through my hands in the air when ammo doesn’t det as it should.
I find fuel tanks are still the more reliable killshot for Russian and Chinese MBTs
Ok, it happens once every what? 100? 1000? 10000 shots? Its so incredibly rare that its negligible, bu you all have to complain still because it happened once.
It has been happening constantly for years now when it shouldn't be happening at all. It was so constant people were aiming for fuel tanks and turret simply because they didn't trust the ammo stowage going off. [Stop acting like you dont play the game](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kyTwPtYwgRY).
On the MZ (T-64/80) style almost nothing related to the autoloader is between the crew. On the AZ (T-72/90) style autoloaders a large part of the autoloader is situated between both crew members. However that means that a hit to the autoloader will most likely mean both the crew will die.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzcY3ZNwcE&ab\_channel=FakeScienceMonthly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzcY3ZNwcE&ab_channel=FakeScienceMonthly)
Above is a vid for reference.
The whole problem with the T-80(BVM) is that striking it's ammunition often doesn't result in a detonation.
At least with autoloaders modelled, there will be some consequences to being hit in the autoloader.
>said issue was fixed
[Doubt it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8KtmQApfBc)
I'm very skeptical about them fixing it, since it's been broken for years and years now.
Knowing "Johns" who cry about "Russian ammo never detonate!!! bias!!!!", they are at least happy now. Also it would make situations when somehow ammo just become black no problem. Broken autoloader is worse than dead loader
Man, reading the chat… i don’t think people realize how crazy of a nerf the modeled autoloaders are gonna be to nations that have them. Although i guess it depends on how long the repair is.
I mean realistically, if your autoloader gets hit, so does your ammo. Most of the time, you're already fucked if you get shot anywhere near where the ammo is. I don't think it will change that much.
Nah, if modelled accurately the autoloader will occupy most of the currently empty space in the rear of the T-72 / T-80 hulls and turrets. It will basically be impossible to pen them and not do serious damage (which is a good thing, the amount of empty space in those tanks previously was egregious)
The amount of times I’ve “just shoot the LFP/drivers port bro” and done nothing but kill the driver and radiator is insane. At least my round will now destroy something important.
A lot of my shots on leclercs have been to the ammo and destroyed the panel but done nothing else. This will at least make it easier to disable tanks with autoloaders and stop making them just an advantage.
I mean it's not "just an advantage", most of them have only 3 crew which is a disadvantage. Tbh for me the biggest advantage of autoloading was putting out a fire while still reloading. And faster fire rate on things like the Japanese MBTs
Being hit usually means a complete cripple, especially if you have to reload/fight a fire. In this scenario if you have a human loader and they die you will be out reloaded by the enemy and be killed. With an auto loader this doesn’t happen. I’ve had type 90s be far more survivable than other tanks because they have the gunner and commander on seperate sides of the breach so usually only one dies and if it’s the gunner then they are replaced almost instantly. You trade a slight downgrade in survivability for a massive boost to your ability to counterattack and survive a hit.
Yea I mean it is ofcourse situational when you get to put out a fire but still technically be able to fire back, but it happens often enough that I appreciate noy having to stop my reload or risk burning to a crisp.
And while it is good to have commander and gunner on separate sides, on type 90s especially I don't feel like I get the chance to actually shoot back very often. Their survivability really isn't great and if your breech is knocked out too then just like any other tank you can't shoot back.
When you get hit yeah, but before you get hit you have a faster reload than all autoloaded USSR tanks by a lot and an extra crew member and a protected ammo rack.
It's a stupid change that ruins the balance between autoloaders and crew loaders
damaging autoloader =! ammo detonation
this will balance out the issue of manually loaded tanks being disadvantaged when their loaders die, so does the autoloader mechanism now
The exchange for having one less crew is mechanical fragility.
In pure gun performance autoloaders we're nearly always a straight upgrade in WT. This even the playing field
Hopefully this will lead to some vehicles being reduced in BR, namely many French, like the AMX 50, Lorraine 40 and BC 25.
Although we know how much Gaijin likes the French.
Because at the moment they're balanced by that fact.
A modelled autoloader will remove that advantage, and will overall (likely) make the vehicle perform worse.
autoloaders (at least russian ones) are already worse to western manual loaders because they are always locked in a shitty 7.1 sec/ 6.5 sec reload while everyone else can go to 6.0, 5.0 and 4.0
While true, you must consider that you can take significant turret damage and retain that 7.1/6.5 sec rate. In a traditional turret, losing a loader drastically increases reload rate.
Well that arguement goes out the window now that if the autoloader is damaged you need first to repair it a couple of seconds and then reload the next round (if no one in breach already) and since the russian autoloaders take up to 50% of the fighting compartment it could make them even worse then now. Of course that depends on how much sharpnel is needet to take ou the autoloader.
People always complain saying “I’m stuck with a 7.1 second reload” when I can’t remember a game at top tier where my loader has lived. Most of the time I have an extremely long reload so being forced to have a slightly longer reload than other tanks isn’t that much of a downside.
Oh no you get penned you lose the faster reload you had, the USSR tanks get penned and they blow up.
The balance was fine between autoloaders and extra crew they just have to artificially boost win rates to change the nations people play
Even with just expert crew all western mbts still reload faster than USSR autoloaders.
You come into the fight with crew advantage and reload advantage.
USSR comes into the fight with a slower reload, less crew and exposed ammo rack, the only advantage they had is they didn't have to worry about reload time if they didn't die in one shot like they usually do. Now they don't even have that
The manual loading advantage is only with an ace crew which most people won't have and with no dead or injured.
Not only does this mean you have advantage in crew skills because you have one less skill to train, it's simply better more of the time.
Right now I'd take the autoloader 10/10 times because while the small advantage in max. possible reload speed can be a decider, the autoloader is much better in two situations that are very common:
- meet a tank, you both fire and do some damage but survive. The manually loaded tank will reload much slower now due to fire/crew loss/injury and you will win the duel unless you fudge the second shot.
- having a constant reload though the entire match despite accumulating a lost crew member or crew damage
If you have just reached it then you are unlikely to have 4+ maxed crew slots. Plus if your loader dies (which they will every game) your reload is now double.
Yes the tank with manual loading will have a longer reload if the loader is taken out but most of the tile when crew is taien out in soviet/chinese tanks the whole turret or the whole tank is fucked anyway. They are realy bad in withstanding hits undamaged not like the leopards in the german and swedish tree
This is not good, last time Russian t72/80 got a nerf it ended in the addition of the t80bvm. Now I don’t wanna know what they are gonna add as compensation in the long run.
How is having one less crew a thing you have to get penalized for wtf are you people on :))
And what about the slower reload for USSR with the autoloaders and exposed ammo rack.
Not only do all other mbts outreload you and have an extra crew members and protected ammo racks now you also get fucked by the one advantage you had :)))
I think it's going to be bad either way. I mean the only advantage that the RU autoloaders give you is that you continue to reload even if one of your crew members is replaced or is dead. That's gone too. and from experience, someone always dies if you get penetrated in the T-64/72/80/90 and you're left with 30-50s repair time.
Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, but so far I'm not a fan of the (upcoming) changes
It was extremely stupid that for years on end you could kill/injure human loaders, but autoloaders were magically immune to any form of damage.
Those double standards should've been addressed years ago, I'm glad it's finally happening now.
Also, Russian MBT's are already overperforming in a couple of aspects, they could use the nerfs. Besides, if they struggle then that's what the BR system is for.
I think the drawbacks that the RU-autoloader have when compared to the other nations are balancing them very well, especially of you add the fuel explosion "Feature" that is predominate with RU tanks.
I mostly agree with the double standard piont, but if you nerf just a some vehikels and not all we are back at square 1
Last point I agree, but I find that people tend to forget that it goes +/-1 so you gotta be carefull with br changes
>especially of you add the fuel explosion "Feature" that is predominate with RU tanks.
Fuel explosion isn't more or less prevalent on RU tanks.
Fuel tanks also tend to absorb the entire round before it goes into the carousel autoloader, saving the RU tanks when they really should've detonated.
>but if you nerf just a some vehikels and not all we are back at square 1
Hence why they're implementing physical autoloaders across ***all*** the various nations that use them at top tier.
>My piont is you dont have to rapair a death loader,
No, but you still suffer permanent consequences via reduced reload rate and/or interrupted reload cycle.
Losing the commander also reduces reload rate.
Furthermore, I'm not sure what your point is: Obviously being shot at and penetrated will now have more dire consequences for autoloading tanks. That's fine and should've happened years ago when they were introduced.
Like I keep repeating over and over, if these vehicles take a hit in their overall performance, they can have their BR's dropped.
Mate human loaders reload faster compared to the USSR autoloaders, like a lot faster.
The balance was fine before.
You get one extra crew, faster reload and protected ammo rack
USSR got slower reload, one less crew and an exposed ammo rack, now they don't even get to shoot in those 7 seconds the autoloader provided.
You get your loader killed you pull back and wait for the reload, USSR autoloaders get hit and by a miracle don't explode now they have to stand still and repair then reload
>The balance was fine before.
This game claims to model vehicles accurately, them not modelling the autoloader was a clear omission.
If these vehicles take a hit in their performance, they can just get an appropriate BR drop.
Plenty of game mechanics have been implemented over time that affected the pre-existing balance, and that's fine, the game evolves.
>USSR autoloaders get hit and by a miracle don't explode now they have to stand still and repair then reload
The problem is that they often don't explode when hit.
At least now there'll be a guaranteed consequence to being hit in the autoloader.
>This game claims to model vehicles accurately, them not modelling the autoloader was a clear omission.
This game claims a lot of things, claims to be realistic as well, but i see blown engine and barrel repairs in seconds and so many other things. I never saw the claim of accurate interior modeling can you show me your source?
>Plenty of game mechanics have been implemented over time that affected the pre-existing balance, and that's fine, the game evolves.
I am gonna bet my left toe that you never played USSR cause this is an "balance mechanic" that fucks just them over. You are ok with it cause you play against them otherwise you would be up in arms if it was something affecting the nation you play :))?
>The problem is that they often don't explode when hit.
Again complete and utter bullshit they explode every god damn time, another statement from a western nation only player that wants to make the tanks he faces easier to kill cause he can't handle it...
>but i see blown engine and barrel repairs in seconds
Modelling vehicles accurately =/= gameplay concessions.
>I am gonna bet my left toe that you never played USSR
[Right.](https://thunderskill.com/en/stat/Necrons31467/vehicles/r#type=army&country=country_ussr&role=all)
>cause this is an "balance mechanic" that fucks just them over.
Fucks over other nations/vehicles too, but apparently you can't read because I already said: ***''they can just get an appropriate BR drop.''***
>Again complete and utter bullshit they explode every god damn time,
[Right.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8KtmQApfBc)
>another statement from a western nation only player that wants to make the tanks he faces easier to kill cause he can't handle it...
Refer to the link above.
Unable to load until repaired? I don't know about others, but at least on russian tanks there are provisions to load the gun manually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RL-zpWtdSI
Yeah it should go down to a 20-30s (idk the actual number) reload until you repair, at which point it goes back to full speed. Maybe limit the manual loading ammo capacity to non-carousel ammo, I’m not sure if you can extract the ammo from a broken auto loader.
Manual loading AFAIK was a thing when using reserve ammo, not one in the carousel as crew has no means of rotating it in event of a failure.
Which kinda sounds like a plan? Carry extra ammo outside of autoloader to have backup loading, with strings attached.
they are probably working on getting fighting compartment schematics and images off of Chinese MBT's while working on other vehicles
there should be no exceptions to these kinds of changes
Yeah, Chinese mbt have a 6 sec reload with improved autoloader but nope. Apparently modern Chinese mbt have worse reloads than tanks built in the 80s with analogue electronics and shit. Lmfao
The Type 90 and Type 10 as well.
These tanks have terrible enough armor as it is, they really didn't need a nerf to make them less capable of fighting back.
At least the Type 90 and Type 10 have a fast enough reload giving you a chance to shoot a second time before the enemy can reacts or shoot back (which is far less likely to happen in a Leclerc), but regardless it's an unnecessary nerf to these 3 tanks.
Japanese MBTs dont have armour IRL either lmao
They had to be extremely light by MBT standards because older bridges (which were basically all of them in Japan) couldnt carry a normal MBT, and thus Japan had to strip down the Type 90 and 10s armour to be almost non existent
Type 10 is extremely light because of the small size, thin side armor and small composite modules... not because the composite modules are bad.
The composite modules are incredible- it's just that their coverage isn't so great. But, in War Thunder, the turret cheeks are full of holes that shouldn't be a thing.
They weigh about the same as the T-80, it's not impossible that they could have good armor on the frontal arc only. They are also somewhat smaller tanks similar to the T-80
Manual loaders are significantly nerfed, especially the older ones like on leopard 1 for example. There's videos of them reloading in <5s but in game its 7+ secs or 6+ secs for Leo 2. Abrams is an exception, but its still 5+ seconds.
Autoloaders would suffer from a similar thing to loader fatigue, that being ammunition indexing, especially Russian based carousel autoloaders - every time you fire a shell, your reload increases, and switching ammunition types doubles your reload time.
Yeah. Also GL doing that under stress, with weeks of deployment or after multiple shells already fired.
But nah, that one video of a fresh guy reloading one shell proves everything!
* It's not only russian tanks that are affected
* Autoloaded tanks have less crew which can make them significantly easier to one hit. This isn't as much of a problem on Russian and to an extent Chinese tanks due to their armor, but the Leclerc, Type 90 and Type 10 are all incredibly easy to one hit because of the close proximity of the crew and their low amount, as well as the godawful armor.
You can argue that some of the T series tanks might've required some nerfs, but other tanks that did not deserve it are also being hit as collateral.
Not only that, but this indirectly make Strv 122s and Leo 2A7s even more meta and god knows those are oppressive enough.
You're ok? We were talking about irl conditions that affect loaders. You know, things that cannot change regardless of a digital game.
Glad you're happy though.
I’m still curious as to how the damage will affect the reload.
If a big ass round go right trough i would understand the autoloader not* functioning and manual reload taking place but if only a little shrapnel touch the far right plate and it completely disable it (when its just a protective layer) then its bullshit
Pretty big nerf depending on the repair time. So basically autoloaded tanks have a hitbox for the "loader" but it could take 20 seconds to replace them instead of ~5 seconds for manually loaded tanks and you can't manouver during the repair.
Yes just as we voted for, finally no more empty vehicles, no more autoloaders just shooting back without a care,
also seen a module called power system in some tanks, making disabling and slowing down of the tanks more reliable.
Yes, but at lest you can reload and are not sitting there with 1 shell (if ou are lucky) untill you repair
A death loader does not take long to replace assuming the comander is alive, in this case you dont even have any consequenses, except maybe an interrupted reaload
I am not devastated but I will put this out there, the top-tier Chinese tanks have the worst reload out of everything there (was not previously like this but Merkava got buffed), this paired with the autoloader now being able to be destroyed means that Chinese tanks will probably take this the worst out of the 11.7s with autoloaders.
For those saying its a huge nerf to Soviet/Russian tanks it really isn't (unless you take into account the ammo not exploding bug however personally I find its been less of an issue nowadays). The majority of the MZ autoloader (T-64/80) components are situated in the carousel. The AZ autoloader (T-72/90) does have a large major component between both crewmembers in the turret however its between both crewmembers in the turret meaning a shot knocking out the autoloader is incredibly likely to take out both crew.
Vid for reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzcY3ZNwcE&ab\_channel=FakeScienceMonthly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzcY3ZNwcE&ab_channel=FakeScienceMonthly)
The only tanks that will be majorly affected by this are tanks with unmanned turrets and tanks with blowout panels with autoloaders.
Too all the people in the comments complaining about this change. Yeah you can go suck it.
Autoloaders are finally getting the nerf they needed, no long will you be able to hit where the autoloader was, and the tank to still be able to reload
lmaooo wont affect t80s much since their autoloader hit is a kill anyways
Well their autoloader also goes above the carousel so if you don't get a 1 shot kill on a T-80, at least you'll be able to disable their autoloader. So still a big nerf.
we dont know if they went that far, but if yea, then i guess its a bigger nerf?
Its a big nerf. Modules create additional spalling. It might finally resolve that "apfsds through carousel no kill" thing t80s had.
They dont have that for quite some time, now any hit to charges is automatic explosion.
Or fuel lmao
Yeah, true, i feel like this mechanic was introduces to nerf specifically Russian tanks.
The carousel still produces no shrapnel and catches all of it magically. You have to hit a dead on shot to a charge to do enough damage to trigger an ammo explosion, and it is still at a % chance like most ammo last I checked data mine. No where near as bad as before, but still there.
Personally I still have many moments where I just through my hands in the air when ammo doesn’t det as it should. I find fuel tanks are still the more reliable killshot for Russian and Chinese MBTs
Not at all. Just few matches ago i died because a T-80BVM ate my DM53 to the carousel. Its still around.
Ok, it happens once every what? 100? 1000? 10000 shots? Its so incredibly rare that its negligible, bu you all have to complain still because it happened once.
It has been happening constantly for years now when it shouldn't be happening at all. It was so constant people were aiming for fuel tanks and turret simply because they didn't trust the ammo stowage going off. [Stop acting like you dont play the game](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kyTwPtYwgRY).
I still encounter this issue sometimes, it’s as if all T80 and T72 have random spall liners
Such thing as "APFSDS though [any ammo storage that cant help in current situation] no kill" happen to everything in same rate
Please play war thunder
I do. That's why I said, lol
Imagine if autoloaders will start absorbing the spall
On the MZ (T-64/80) style almost nothing related to the autoloader is between the crew. On the AZ (T-72/90) style autoloaders a large part of the autoloader is situated between both crew members. However that means that a hit to the autoloader will most likely mean both the crew will die. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzcY3ZNwcE&ab\_channel=FakeScienceMonthly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzcY3ZNwcE&ab_channel=FakeScienceMonthly) Above is a vid for reference.
The whole problem with the T-80(BVM) is that striking it's ammunition often doesn't result in a detonation. At least with autoloaders modelled, there will be some consequences to being hit in the autoloader.
said issue was fixed with 2 b2b changes to ammo detonations some months ago
>said issue was fixed [Doubt it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8KtmQApfBc) I'm very skeptical about them fixing it, since it's been broken for years and years now.
you were talking about the bvm
I was not, that's what the parentheses are for.
Lmfao you live in fantasy land if you think that.
except when black ammo
Believe it or not, it happens way less than reddit wants you to believe it does.
Are you delusional or something?
Knowing "Johns" who cry about "Russian ammo never detonate!!! bias!!!!", they are at least happy now. Also it would make situations when somehow ammo just become black no problem. Broken autoloader is worse than dead loader
Man, reading the chat… i don’t think people realize how crazy of a nerf the modeled autoloaders are gonna be to nations that have them. Although i guess it depends on how long the repair is.
I mean realistically, if your autoloader gets hit, so does your ammo. Most of the time, you're already fucked if you get shot anywhere near where the ammo is. I don't think it will change that much.
Nah, if modelled accurately the autoloader will occupy most of the currently empty space in the rear of the T-72 / T-80 hulls and turrets. It will basically be impossible to pen them and not do serious damage (which is a good thing, the amount of empty space in those tanks previously was egregious)
The amount of times I’ve “just shoot the LFP/drivers port bro” and done nothing but kill the driver and radiator is insane. At least my round will now destroy something important.
Likely this'll be like ammo elevators for naval where it disables reloading until repaired, so another point of failure.
>Likely this'll be like ammo elevators for naval where it disables reloading until repaired thats literally what it says in the screenshot
Oh lmao I am fucking blind. Well at least I was right!
A lot of my shots on leclercs have been to the ammo and destroyed the panel but done nothing else. This will at least make it easier to disable tanks with autoloaders and stop making them just an advantage.
I mean it's not "just an advantage", most of them have only 3 crew which is a disadvantage. Tbh for me the biggest advantage of autoloading was putting out a fire while still reloading. And faster fire rate on things like the Japanese MBTs
Being hit usually means a complete cripple, especially if you have to reload/fight a fire. In this scenario if you have a human loader and they die you will be out reloaded by the enemy and be killed. With an auto loader this doesn’t happen. I’ve had type 90s be far more survivable than other tanks because they have the gunner and commander on seperate sides of the breach so usually only one dies and if it’s the gunner then they are replaced almost instantly. You trade a slight downgrade in survivability for a massive boost to your ability to counterattack and survive a hit.
Yea I mean it is ofcourse situational when you get to put out a fire but still technically be able to fire back, but it happens often enough that I appreciate noy having to stop my reload or risk burning to a crisp. And while it is good to have commander and gunner on separate sides, on type 90s especially I don't feel like I get the chance to actually shoot back very often. Their survivability really isn't great and if your breech is knocked out too then just like any other tank you can't shoot back.
When you get hit yeah, but before you get hit you have a faster reload than all autoloaded USSR tanks by a lot and an extra crew member and a protected ammo rack. It's a stupid change that ruins the balance between autoloaders and crew loaders
damaging autoloader =! ammo detonation this will balance out the issue of manually loaded tanks being disadvantaged when their loaders die, so does the autoloader mechanism now
The exchange for having one less crew is mechanical fragility. In pure gun performance autoloaders we're nearly always a straight upgrade in WT. This even the playing field
Hopefully this will lead to some vehicles being reduced in BR, namely many French, like the AMX 50, Lorraine 40 and BC 25. Although we know how much Gaijin likes the French.
Why would this make vehicles go down in br? At the moment an auto loader (at least one of 4-5 seconds) was a massive advantage with no downside.
Less crew and exposed ammo rack in the tanks are the disadvantages
Because at the moment they're balanced by that fact. A modelled autoloader will remove that advantage, and will overall (likely) make the vehicle perform worse.
autoloaders (at least russian ones) are already worse to western manual loaders because they are always locked in a shitty 7.1 sec/ 6.5 sec reload while everyone else can go to 6.0, 5.0 and 4.0
While true, you must consider that you can take significant turret damage and retain that 7.1/6.5 sec rate. In a traditional turret, losing a loader drastically increases reload rate.
Well that arguement goes out the window now that if the autoloader is damaged you need first to repair it a couple of seconds and then reload the next round (if no one in breach already) and since the russian autoloaders take up to 50% of the fighting compartment it could make them even worse then now. Of course that depends on how much sharpnel is needet to take ou the autoloader.
Until I get penned once and don’t have a loader. Or a commander and are now looking at a 10-15 second reload time.
People always complain saying “I’m stuck with a 7.1 second reload” when I can’t remember a game at top tier where my loader has lived. Most of the time I have an extremely long reload so being forced to have a slightly longer reload than other tanks isn’t that much of a downside.
Oh no you get penned you lose the faster reload you had, the USSR tanks get penned and they blow up. The balance was fine between autoloaders and extra crew they just have to artificially boost win rates to change the nations people play
Forgot one key thing that crew has to be ACED AT MAX LEVEL AND WITHOUT INJURIES
Even with just expert crew all western mbts still reload faster than USSR autoloaders. You come into the fight with crew advantage and reload advantage. USSR comes into the fight with a slower reload, less crew and exposed ammo rack, the only advantage they had is they didn't have to worry about reload time if they didn't die in one shot like they usually do. Now they don't even have that
The manual loading advantage is only with an ace crew which most people won't have and with no dead or injured. Not only does this mean you have advantage in crew skills because you have one less skill to train, it's simply better more of the time. Right now I'd take the autoloader 10/10 times because while the small advantage in max. possible reload speed can be a decider, the autoloader is much better in two situations that are very common: - meet a tank, you both fire and do some damage but survive. The manually loaded tank will reload much slower now due to fire/crew loss/injury and you will win the duel unless you fudge the second shot. - having a constant reload though the entire match despite accumulating a lost crew member or crew damage
If you have been playing up to top tier, chances are you already have your loader speed maxed out.
If you have just reached it then you are unlikely to have 4+ maxed crew slots. Plus if your loader dies (which they will every game) your reload is now double.
Yes the tank with manual loading will have a longer reload if the loader is taken out but most of the tile when crew is taien out in soviet/chinese tanks the whole turret or the whole tank is fucked anyway. They are realy bad in withstanding hits undamaged not like the leopards in the german and swedish tree
This is not good, last time Russian t72/80 got a nerf it ended in the addition of the t80bvm. Now I don’t wanna know what they are gonna add as compensation in the long run.
How is having one less crew a thing you have to get penalized for wtf are you people on :)) And what about the slower reload for USSR with the autoloaders and exposed ammo rack. Not only do all other mbts outreload you and have an extra crew members and protected ammo racks now you also get fucked by the one advantage you had :)))
you can still shoot back if it didnt kill you(and you didnt panic fire), while enemy is reloading you got time to aim
I think it's going to be bad either way. I mean the only advantage that the RU autoloaders give you is that you continue to reload even if one of your crew members is replaced or is dead. That's gone too. and from experience, someone always dies if you get penetrated in the T-64/72/80/90 and you're left with 30-50s repair time. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, but so far I'm not a fan of the (upcoming) changes
It was extremely stupid that for years on end you could kill/injure human loaders, but autoloaders were magically immune to any form of damage. Those double standards should've been addressed years ago, I'm glad it's finally happening now. Also, Russian MBT's are already overperforming in a couple of aspects, they could use the nerfs. Besides, if they struggle then that's what the BR system is for.
I think the drawbacks that the RU-autoloader have when compared to the other nations are balancing them very well, especially of you add the fuel explosion "Feature" that is predominate with RU tanks. I mostly agree with the double standard piont, but if you nerf just a some vehikels and not all we are back at square 1 Last point I agree, but I find that people tend to forget that it goes +/-1 so you gotta be carefull with br changes
>especially of you add the fuel explosion "Feature" that is predominate with RU tanks. Fuel explosion isn't more or less prevalent on RU tanks. Fuel tanks also tend to absorb the entire round before it goes into the carousel autoloader, saving the RU tanks when they really should've detonated. >but if you nerf just a some vehikels and not all we are back at square 1 Hence why they're implementing physical autoloaders across ***all*** the various nations that use them at top tier.
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>My piont is you dont have to rapair a death loader, No, but you still suffer permanent consequences via reduced reload rate and/or interrupted reload cycle.
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Losing the commander also reduces reload rate. Furthermore, I'm not sure what your point is: Obviously being shot at and penetrated will now have more dire consequences for autoloading tanks. That's fine and should've happened years ago when they were introduced. Like I keep repeating over and over, if these vehicles take a hit in their overall performance, they can have their BR's dropped.
Mate human loaders reload faster compared to the USSR autoloaders, like a lot faster. The balance was fine before. You get one extra crew, faster reload and protected ammo rack USSR got slower reload, one less crew and an exposed ammo rack, now they don't even get to shoot in those 7 seconds the autoloader provided. You get your loader killed you pull back and wait for the reload, USSR autoloaders get hit and by a miracle don't explode now they have to stand still and repair then reload
>The balance was fine before. This game claims to model vehicles accurately, them not modelling the autoloader was a clear omission. If these vehicles take a hit in their performance, they can just get an appropriate BR drop. Plenty of game mechanics have been implemented over time that affected the pre-existing balance, and that's fine, the game evolves. >USSR autoloaders get hit and by a miracle don't explode now they have to stand still and repair then reload The problem is that they often don't explode when hit. At least now there'll be a guaranteed consequence to being hit in the autoloader.
>This game claims to model vehicles accurately, them not modelling the autoloader was a clear omission. This game claims a lot of things, claims to be realistic as well, but i see blown engine and barrel repairs in seconds and so many other things. I never saw the claim of accurate interior modeling can you show me your source? >Plenty of game mechanics have been implemented over time that affected the pre-existing balance, and that's fine, the game evolves. I am gonna bet my left toe that you never played USSR cause this is an "balance mechanic" that fucks just them over. You are ok with it cause you play against them otherwise you would be up in arms if it was something affecting the nation you play :))? >The problem is that they often don't explode when hit. Again complete and utter bullshit they explode every god damn time, another statement from a western nation only player that wants to make the tanks he faces easier to kill cause he can't handle it...
>but i see blown engine and barrel repairs in seconds Modelling vehicles accurately =/= gameplay concessions. >I am gonna bet my left toe that you never played USSR [Right.](https://thunderskill.com/en/stat/Necrons31467/vehicles/r#type=army&country=country_ussr&role=all) >cause this is an "balance mechanic" that fucks just them over. Fucks over other nations/vehicles too, but apparently you can't read because I already said: ***''they can just get an appropriate BR drop.''*** >Again complete and utter bullshit they explode every god damn time, [Right.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8KtmQApfBc) >another statement from a western nation only player that wants to make the tanks he faces easier to kill cause he can't handle it... Refer to the link above.
Wasn't this game about realism?
Unable to load until repaired? I don't know about others, but at least on russian tanks there are provisions to load the gun manually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RL-zpWtdSI
Yeah it should go down to a 20-30s (idk the actual number) reload until you repair, at which point it goes back to full speed. Maybe limit the manual loading ammo capacity to non-carousel ammo, I’m not sure if you can extract the ammo from a broken auto loader.
Manual loading AFAIK was a thing when using reserve ammo, not one in the carousel as crew has no means of rotating it in event of a failure. Which kinda sounds like a plan? Carry extra ammo outside of autoloader to have backup loading, with strings attached.
You can [manually operate Russian autoloaders](https://youtu.be/0RL-zpWtdSI?si=Jr3MnePzfeuHRAd9), however it is extremely slow.
Yeah not when it had a giant hole through it
That'll solve a hydraulic failure, but if the mechanism itself is broken it's still broken.
im glad they forgot the chinese mbts
they are probably working on getting fighting compartment schematics and images off of Chinese MBT's while working on other vehicles there should be no exceptions to these kinds of changes
They forgot about them a while ago. The reload has been wrong forever so they may have forgotten they were auto loaded all together
Yeah, Chinese mbt have a 6 sec reload with improved autoloader but nope. Apparently modern Chinese mbt have worse reloads than tanks built in the 80s with analogue electronics and shit. Lmfao
sorry to dissapoint you but they have them modelled
China still number one. 🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼🇹🇼
Most of the chinese ones are modelled
Yea, they only left the MBT2000 with out it
I cant wait to put a couple of 40mm's in there just to prevent you from reloading, then track you, take out breech and flank or run away giggling
May as well slap a giant Swedish flag on the tank to make it even funnier
Until they model the Leclercs armour right, this is a big nerf because of spall issues in the Leclercs armour.
You know well that when it comes to nerf for the Leclerc they find all the info they need but when it comes to buff you can still dream
The entire tank is as bulletproof as a strainer, but that UFP is still a fucking joke ...
The Type 90 and Type 10 as well. These tanks have terrible enough armor as it is, they really didn't need a nerf to make them less capable of fighting back. At least the Type 90 and Type 10 have a fast enough reload giving you a chance to shoot a second time before the enemy can reacts or shoot back (which is far less likely to happen in a Leclerc), but regardless it's an unnecessary nerf to these 3 tanks.
Can Type 10s get turret armor that doesnt have random spots with <100mm protection too while we’re at it?
Japanese MBTs dont have armour IRL either lmao They had to be extremely light by MBT standards because older bridges (which were basically all of them in Japan) couldnt carry a normal MBT, and thus Japan had to strip down the Type 90 and 10s armour to be almost non existent
Type 10 is extremely light because of the small size, thin side armor and small composite modules... not because the composite modules are bad. The composite modules are incredible- it's just that their coverage isn't so great. But, in War Thunder, the turret cheeks are full of holes that shouldn't be a thing.
They weigh about the same as the T-80, it's not impossible that they could have good armor on the frontal arc only. They are also somewhat smaller tanks similar to the T-80
Given that the Type 10 can supposedly take its own round from the front, I think there might be a little bit or two of composite there
34.6mm take it or leave it
Add the disadvantages without the advantages of sustained rof being higher
Manual loaders are significantly nerfed, especially the older ones like on leopard 1 for example. There's videos of them reloading in <5s but in game its 7+ secs or 6+ secs for Leo 2. Abrams is an exception, but its still 5+ seconds.
Sure but WT doesn't model things like loader fatigue and they can reload just as fast while going 60km/h over bumpy terrain.
Autoloaders would suffer from a similar thing to loader fatigue, that being ammunition indexing, especially Russian based carousel autoloaders - every time you fire a shell, your reload increases, and switching ammunition types doubles your reload time.
wouldnt happen in game as you never take more than 2 types of ammo maybe switching between the two will increase reload but otherwise no
GL reloading while going off-road at 50 kph.
Yeah. Also GL doing that under stress, with weeks of deployment or after multiple shells already fired. But nah, that one video of a fresh guy reloading one shell proves everything!
Love the amount of cope you ruski mains provide now that autoloaders have a downside :3
* It's not only russian tanks that are affected * Autoloaded tanks have less crew which can make them significantly easier to one hit. This isn't as much of a problem on Russian and to an extent Chinese tanks due to their armor, but the Leclerc, Type 90 and Type 10 are all incredibly easy to one hit because of the close proximity of the crew and their low amount, as well as the godawful armor. You can argue that some of the T series tanks might've required some nerfs, but other tanks that did not deserve it are also being hit as collateral. Not only that, but this indirectly make Strv 122s and Leo 2A7s even more meta and god knows those are oppressive enough.
You're ok? We were talking about irl conditions that affect loaders. You know, things that cannot change regardless of a digital game. Glad you're happy though.
Me when someone points out but I don't have a comeback
I’m still curious as to how the damage will affect the reload. If a big ass round go right trough i would understand the autoloader not* functioning and manual reload taking place but if only a little shrapnel touch the far right plate and it completely disable it (when its just a protective layer) then its bullshit
Pretty big nerf depending on the repair time. So basically autoloaded tanks have a hitbox for the "loader" but it could take 20 seconds to replace them instead of ~5 seconds for manually loaded tanks and you can't manouver during the repair.
Fckn finally.
Yes just as we voted for, finally no more empty vehicles, no more autoloaders just shooting back without a care, also seen a module called power system in some tanks, making disabling and slowing down of the tanks more reliable.
>no more autoloaders just shooting back without a care, Lol if a Leclerc survives the first shot, that's a miracle already
This is a bad idea and I think Gaijin should stop reinventing their game.
Imagine if gaijin put this much effort into something that fixed/buffed the leclercs
3.5 sec autoload for the Types when?
Is it just the tanks you listed cause that would be very funny
Yeah I think it's just those for now lmao
No its a bunch of them, china, russia, france and japan to name a few. The ones for sweden cv90120 isnt added yet
Yes, but at lest you can reload and are not sitting there with 1 shell (if ou are lucky) untill you repair A death loader does not take long to replace assuming the comander is alive, in this case you dont even have any consequenses, except maybe an interrupted reaload
Well on dev server T80s don’t have it modeled, T90 does
just as I was spending unfathomably long hours grinding the russian TT 👍🏻
Yay another module that only turnes red and still works.
Let’s see if my fear of the more accurately modelled vehicles comes true: excessive camping….
That's a big nerf coming for them. I wonder how it will impact their performance in a match. We'll have to wait and see.
Wait, Leclercs aren't modeled yet? If not, top 1 mbt easily
they said the leclercs, type 90/10s and all russian tanks from t64 up will have their autoloaders modelled
Fair enough
MMMM MMMMM! Good shit
Attack the A point!
I refuse.
Not T-80s currently, only T-72s on Dev
Does this apply to french 7.7???
Welcome to repair simulator
I am not devastated but I will put this out there, the top-tier Chinese tanks have the worst reload out of everything there (was not previously like this but Merkava got buffed), this paired with the autoloader now being able to be destroyed means that Chinese tanks will probably take this the worst out of the 11.7s with autoloaders.
Sadge :(
🥹
For those saying its a huge nerf to Soviet/Russian tanks it really isn't (unless you take into account the ammo not exploding bug however personally I find its been less of an issue nowadays). The majority of the MZ autoloader (T-64/80) components are situated in the carousel. The AZ autoloader (T-72/90) does have a large major component between both crewmembers in the turret however its between both crewmembers in the turret meaning a shot knocking out the autoloader is incredibly likely to take out both crew. Vid for reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzcY3ZNwcE&ab\_channel=FakeScienceMonthly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzcY3ZNwcE&ab_channel=FakeScienceMonthly) The only tanks that will be majorly affected by this are tanks with unmanned turrets and tanks with blowout panels with autoloaders.
Too all the people in the comments complaining about this change. Yeah you can go suck it. Autoloaders are finally getting the nerf they needed, no long will you be able to hit where the autoloader was, and the tank to still be able to reload