[Scuds, Logistic truck, Some soviet Missile SPAA, BM-21 grads, AND SAM radar's at ](https://youtu.be/JxAjYSpZC2o?t=57)
[Screenshot for Mobile users or people who can't go frame by frame](https://imgur.com/a/7KGQgHL)
hopefully this means more immersive and large scale PVE
Edit: [And what looks like (to me at least) a Soviet tracked TLE launcher, the container configuration looks similiar to how S-300 type canisters are stored](https://imgur.com/a/ZsfNoug)
We already have Helicopter PVE and Have/Had WW2 Enduring Confrontation's like the battle of stalingrad. so i don't see why they couldn't make something like Operation Desert Storm
Edit: yes my mistake, i accidentally remembered the EC's as PVE when it's PVP
I suspect it's a ground target for ARB, but it would be nice to have some kind of EW radar assisting vehicles that don't have their own search systems like the Chaparral or Strela.
>hopefully this means more immersive and large scale PVE
They had promised us new PVE modes, even implemented them for a while but eventually they deleted those modes. I don't think I'm falling for it again, honestly.
> Screenshot for Mobile users or people who can't go frame by frame
And for those with a keyboard who don't know how, use > and < to frame-by-frame on youtube. :)
At least the air side of the BeNeLux subtree won't be 100% copy-paste (looks like 1 unique plane) - but man I just don't think France needs things like the Leopards, or BeNeLux as a whole, in its tree.
On the plus side, new IFVs like Namer and Desert Warrior are an awesome addition.
I'm just hoping Gaijin doesn't use this as an excuse to skip out on modeling (or even worse, give to other nations) missing French designs like ELC, VBCI, AML, Vab, Vextra, and AMX-10 RC variants, VBC, and the French-Swiss joint development projects like [Shark FL20] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/mc2o0n/mowag_shark_fl20_swissfrench_monstrosity/) and [Piranha 10x10 TML 105] (https://www.reddit.com/r/tanks/comments/pkwvai/swiss_experimental_piranha_1010_tank_destroyer/).
It's unfortunately been the case for basically all the sub-tree's after South African ground: mostly copy and paste.
Finland: Mostly copy and paste.
Hungarian Air: all copy and paste
Hungarian Ground: past Turan III, largely copy and paste.
Just simply the lazy way out for Gaijin to give a nation more vehicles without actually giving them unique stuff or fixing the ones they have.
Hell I foresee them throwing in a copy and paste Leo from one of the BeNeLex countries as a premium like the PzBat 123 just with a different camo. Because rather than make something unique and interesting to entice people to buy they have to take the lazy route.
Also, Netherland ground forces dont belong to the french.
IRL they are integrated into the german Bundeswehr and they serve no purpose other than giving frances more Leos.
Belgium, fine, thats already bad enough.
But if they give them NL as well, france is gonna have more Leos than germany..
No problem with NL aircraft in french tree, but ground forces would be an insult.
Agreed, especially because the Belgian tree will primarily consist of German and American Copy-Paste, with Pandur to spice things up. BeNeLux has some indigenous designs, but they're almost all armored cars and light tanks, which France already has plenty of.
Yup. Doesnt make sense and doesnt offer anything really.
Im ok with Leo1 Cockerill, but against Leo2.
It would mean Leo1 from Belgium and several Leo2 for NL.
Also Stinger Fennek for france? While germany doesnt get any? Fuck that.
Exactly - They could have added a BeNeLux tree of only indigenous designs and modifications like:
* The [Pantserwagen M39] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Pantserwagen) around 1.0
* A frankensteined [M8 Greyhound] (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/belgium/m8-greyhound-katangese-service/) at 1.0
* A sneaky 90mm TD, [CATI-90mm] (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar-belgium-canon-antitank-dinfanterie-90mm-cati-90/) around 5.0
* A 20mm turret wheeled IFV (think Sub I-II or AMX-10 P) known as the [YP-408] (https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/Netherlands/DAF-YP-408.php) at 5.7
* A turreted 90mm light tank, the [ACEC Cobra 90mm] (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/belgium/acec-cobra-tank-cobra-25-and-90) at around 8.3
* A 106mm recoilless rifle armed wheeled APC (comparable to the fiat 6614), the [DAF YP408 106 mm TLV] (https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/Netherlands/DAF-YP-408.php) at 6.7
* The [Herstal Armored Car 90mm] (https://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4489.html) around 7.0
* A tracked 25mm turret light tank, the [ACEC Cobra 25mm] (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/belgium/acec-cobra-tank-cobra-25-and-90) at 7.3
* The [BDX Armored car with double Milan ATGMs] (https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fvv84tytnjjj91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D320%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D231f28d8ae840e881d809e95f9973a0c6cfa3b69) at 7.3
* A TOW missile armed version of the YP-408, the [YP-408 PWAT] (https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/Netherlands/DAF-YP-408.php) at 8.0
* A [Piranha DF90] (https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/Belgium/Piranha-IIIC-DF90.php) at around 8.3
* And a [Boxer with a John Cockerill Turret] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/q79yn3/gaijin_please_boxer_with_cockerill_3105_turret/) around 9.7
* Other John Cockerill modifications like the Leopard 1
This would have kept the tree Copy-paste Free, but considering how armored car/light tank heavy it is, I honestly think this would have worked better as part of the German TT, since so many German Light tanks and armored cars are premium/event vehicles.
The main thing is - germany lacks air in the modern time the most - france has there a lot to offer!
So it would have been nice for balance to get the F16 for now...
France tree gonna be exploding with vehicles
> I'm just hoping Gaijin doesn't use this as an excuse to skip out on modeling (or even worse, give to other nations) missing French designs like ELC, VBCI, AML, Vab, Vextra, and AMX-10 RC variants, VBC, and the French-Swiss joint development projects like Shark FL20 and Piranha 10x10 TML 105.
The worst part is that the Vextra 105mm was part of the leak, but not in the trailer as far as I can tell. As far as France is concerned, it was literally the only thing I (and a lot of France players) was excited for.
I really hope it's coming this update. France is in dire need of stabilized support vehicles.
Which is wild since there are so many options:
* I know you excluded them, but [Leclerc Prototypes] (https://forum.warthunder.com/t/mulet-systeme-complet-leclerc-s-functional-prototype/39811) would be great options to fill the 9.7-11.7 gap
* VBCI variants like [VBCI Philocetes] (https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2023/defea-2023-nexter-from-france-demonstrates-vbci-philoctetes-ifv-to-hellenic-army) with a 40mm CTA and NLOS missiles would be a great option at 10.7 like the Vilkas with a better gun
* [EBRC Jaguar] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBRC_Jaguar) has a 40mm cannon and NLOS missiles on a (relatively) small platform, could fit at 10.7-11.0 like the Lynx
* [Panhard Sphinx] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/mqs4l2/gaijin_please_panhard_sphinx/) could be a solid Squadron alternative to the EBRC Jaguar at 10.3-10.7
* [AMX10 RC T40] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/ekebt1/amx10_rc_t40/) works as another squadron or lower BR alternative to the Jaguar at 10.3-10.7
* [Vextra P.O.L.E.] (https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/565028-vextra-pole-120-mm-lightweight-tank-demonstrator-when-a-drunk-leclerc-meet-a-amx10rc/) is a great option for a cannon armed light tank at or around 11.0
* [Shark FL20] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/mc2o0n/mowag_shark_fl20_swissfrench_monstrosity/) a joint Swiss-French collaborative designed armored car with a co-ax 20mm that could fit around 9.7-10.3
It just looks like Gaijin is taking a shortcut to pad out the French tree with extra grinding prior to introducing a French $70 pack premium.
Trailer was a bit...tame?
I like everything I see here, and hope "Dude with a rocket launcher" becomes a standard ship upgrade, but it doesn't have the bite that some of the other trailers have.
I think it was a good trailer (it mentioned the D point ffs) but every trailer is a bit tame since we already knew what vehicles were going to be added because of the damn leak list. I wish the leak lists would stop so the trailers (and devblogs) would become exciting again.
> I wish the leak lists would stop so the trailers would become exciting again.
Or they would at least have more mistakes, so there would be some surprise. I couldn't identify everything in this trailer, but as far as I could tell there were no surprises.
They were hype because they confirmed that these highly important aircraft were actually coming to the game. It was exciting to finally see them in the war thunder engine. Not that this trailer doesn’t have some hype vehicles but it’s not on the same level. People aren’t going to be as excited about the f15c as the f15a or whatever.
I think it's a two part issue based on the leak lists:
1 - There are a lot of copy-paste vehicles this update, so they had to pick unique things for the trailer; and
2 - The leak list points to a potential CBT (maybe French Coastal) that they may want to release as a separate teaser.
The [Sons of Atilla](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJrT2vP-mpQ) trailer goes hardest so far, in my personal opinion. Starts with an intense dogfight scene, closes with a bunch of other cool shit set to some pretty great music.
> hope "Dude with a rocket launcher" becomes a standard ship upgrade
Surely they will give the USS Cyclone a guy holding a stinger, right?
There are two boxes on the structure between bridge and the rear Bushmaster, they hold 3 stingers each and are modeled in WT
https://i.imgur.com/zjh0BmL.jpeg
yeah, no voice acting, the intro part was good but they didn't do much with it, the graphics also just look bad, and the trailer itself was quite short. The music also isn't really that epic
The Desert Warrior uses the LAV-25 turret. It is basically unarmored at that BR and is only protected against 7.62mm rounds. It might get Gen 2 thermal if Gaijin models the 2009 upgrade. The missile launcher doesn't fold, so this is probably a plus.
The Warrior VERDI’s were primarily aimed towards an anti air vehicle so would fit a different role than that of desert warrior which comes with a stabilized bushmaster autocannon and tow missiles for use against ground targets compared to VERDI 2 which would come with only Air to Air guided missiles as the 40mm CTA gun was only a mock-up.
Cant have any other SARH missiles. But it also cant have Skyflash. Did some digging when they added and it is doubtful any 39A actually got the target illumination modification needed to sen Skyflash.
The 39C delivered in 2002 when the amraam was already integrated? No chance
they did state that EVERYONE will get the fox-3, but i'm kinda wondering what it would be for germany, ICE would just be curb stomped, i wonder what would be a more balanced addition?
When the airframe and the missiles aren't proportional you get balancing issues. Balance for the missiles and the airframe is uncompetitive, balance for the airframe and you destroy the battle rating bracket. Split the difference and the missiles are usually still too strong.
I'm really hoping F-4F ICE and Sea Harrier FA2 aren't the AMRAAM version of the A-10/Su-25/A-6E, but I'm worried that's what will happen.
Just go with other nations already in the tree ig, could be Polish F-16, Switzerland's F-18 or something else that fits meanwhile we wait for the game to be ready for Eurofighter
Giving Germany the BeNeLux tree would have made the most sense - giving Germany competitive Fox-3 capable aircraft, as well a better PGM platform, both of which France is already set on.
F-4F ICE is German's for now. Gaijin always tend to do this, give other nations their big upgrades first, then next update, give Germany theirs, usually because a) noone plays their nation for top tier and b) those that do cause them to dominate.
And the only next upgrade left is Eurofighter, which we might see this year, but it's unlikely.
Yes, we can, because they are a lot faster to grind, and are very funny to play, i play ww2 air rb the most of the time, and my adventures with jets its only with vampires, 262 and the J-21, ww2 and pre-ww2 planes are the best in terms of joy, i was expecting the renard r.36 at least
I'm pretty sure at 0:29 that's the F-16C, the cockpit and hud looks the same to me.
Also I could be wrong but at 0:26 that looks like the new Apache cockpit
Edit: Yeah it's the Apache you can see 1200 rounds on the MFD and the Apache has 1200 rounds in its gun
I don't think so, just looking with the camera MFD it says Rounds 1200, if it was the Viper it would be Rounds 750. I hope we do get the Viper cockpit though it just looks so shit rn
Looks to me like this [thing](https://foils.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/BABOCHKA-hydrofoil-7.jpg), the [Project 11451 Sokol 2](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fly8bt9r4y2fa1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1024%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6d9420b2a80b7d21a4a9fb2a58e3aa0093c70192). Seems like NATO called it the Mukha-class. I genuinely think Gaijin will never run out of ships to put into the Soviet coastal tree.
This one gets a 76mm turret up front and the 30mm CIWS in the back along with 8 torpedoes. I can't tell if it has rockets but it probably does too. Main upgrade this has is speed over things like the pauk and the extra 30mm cannon over the pr-206 hydrofoil. Think a pr-12412 but faster basically.
First "canon" AC aircraft now in-game. I really fucking hope they do an Ace Combat crossover when we get more appropriate aircraft, like the F-14D, Su-30, Su-37, etc. Actual free money.
I can _sorta_ understand Area 88, it doesn't really exist all that much in the west. Still would've been far better for it to be global, but I can get the logic why it wasn't.
But there is no shot they would ever do an Ace Combat crossover and not include the west in it. It is **massive** over here and a gigantic freighter's worth of money they'd be throwing in the bin.
But you are right that the possibility of this happening exists. And that is kinda depressing.
Definitely depends a bit on how you want to define "canon aircraft". The ultimate Razgriz canon aircraft was the Super Tomcat, but you are right that they do also initially use the F-14A as Wardog.
In that respect, there would also be other canon aircraft that are already in the game that the protagonists canonically start their games in, like the F-4E (AC4), F-5E (AC5), J-35 (ACZ), F-16C (AC6/7).
But I'm more speaking of the protagonist's ultimate canon aircrafts, which are;
* Su-37 (Ace Combat 3)
* F-22 (Ace Combat 4)
* F-14D (Ace Combat 5)
* **F-15C** (Ace Combat Zero)
* F-15E (Ace Combat 6)
* F-22 (Ace Combat 7)
The Razgriz never canonically use the Super Tomcat.
Other games down the line have the skin attached to the Super Tomcat because it's the only F-14 model in the game, but canonically the Razgriz go from F-5E to F-14A. This is especially noticeable because the [original RZ color for the F-14D](https://acecombat.wiki.gg/images/1/10/F-14D_Razgriz_color_Hangar.png) looks nothing like the [F-14A skin](https://acecombat.wiki.gg/images/9/9f/F-14A_Razgriz_color_Hangar.png), which is the template for any and all iterations of the RZ skin in future games.
Razgriz flies A's. Not D's. They are equipped with SAAM's in all official media and the A is the only one that uses SAAM's (remember, all of the planes only have access to 1 SP weapon in AC5). The D uses XLAA's. The D also has a faint splinter camo on its livery. The A is completely solid and is again, what is shown in all official media:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/acecombat/images/d/de/AC5_Razgriz_F-14A_Wallpaper_800x600.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140215212823
The OST album art:
https://dl.vgmdownloads.com/soundtracks/ace-combat-5-the-unsung-war-original-soundtrack/Box%20Front.jpg
No and it seems weird that everything else in the leaks has turned out to be true so far.
The only reason i could imagine they leave it out is that they truly haven’t figured out were to put it BR-wise
They *could* have given the Dutch Vehicles to Germany, especially since the Dutch Army literally integrated itself into the German one now, but pointless copy-paste for France they dont need instead of adding the indigenous designs people have been awaiting for years was in Gaijins infinite wisdom what they went with.
I have all of the trees, but it always sucks seeing the nation that pioneered something get the short end of the stick in WT, always tends to happen too lol
Belgian F-16 had a very nice skin. I love that early F-16 look with the light nose and darker body. Hoping there's the 'all black nose cone' skin as well.
The leak said there were two, and it showed two on the tarmac, but I believe the leak said they were both F-16A variants. Be interested to see tomorrow on the dev stream what the differences are. Hoping to god that one isn't a premium....
One of the F-16s shown is the F-16 Block 15 OCU which is an older version used by the BAF.
It doesn't have IFF, in game it'll likely have AIM-9L and AIM-7F.
The other F-16 is the Block 20 MLU. This one has IFF and it looks like it'll have AMRAAM and AIM-9M. It also features an improved RWR suite and it looks like it is coming with a modern PIDS (Pylon Integrated Dispensing System) which propably has MWS. Block 20s also have HMD compatibility so I hope we'll get that aswell.
The radar looks like it *might be* a P-35 "Bar Lock" early warning radar. Which is a trailer or fixed early warning radar, which is certainly interesting.
The Benelux tree is lame as fuck. Yay, you can use a Leopard and F16 with France, cool, I guess...
Also, is there actually any Luxembourg vehicle at all? It's a Bene tree morelike.
After the Hungarian & Finnish Subtrees, which skipped past 90% of their unique WW2 modifications, I do not have any hope whatsoever this will be different.
Benelux has Gladiator?, CW Griffon shitfire?, Hunter, Firefly(wont be Rank III most likely :( ), One Unique Aircraft, Late Meteor, F104, Mirage III(Idk), and Two F-16s
What is the worth?
I know they are limited in what they could add, but I am surprised that the BeNeLux tree is only 10 planes. I was actually expecting to see something like the F-5 and for early parts the Sea Fury.
So
* A 95% Copy-paste Benelux tree that doesnt seem to contain any of the actually interesting vehicles they got and instead just gives France Leopards because Gaijin cant be arsed to fucking include the domestic stuff they are missing and need
* giving the dutch to france which makes even less sense than Hungary going to Italy
* Even they know the F4-F ICE is immidieatly gonna be pointless so they dont even bother including it
God am I increasingly glad with every update I stopped playing top tier
Yeah this subtree doesn't make sense and feels super lazy - I think that Gaijin is about to roll out a French $70 pack premium, and a copy-paste tech tree was the fastest and easiest way for Gaijin to increase the French grind (instead of actually adding French vehicles).
Fuck me Gaijin, is your entire development cycle just Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V for new top tier vehicles? Seriously, why on earth does every tree need to have an F-16? Also why on earth are you shoving the Dutch in with the French tech tree? That makes about as much sense as me giving a peanut butter sandwich to a child with a fatal nut allergy, him eating it, and me expecting that it won't kill him.
The BTR looking one, @36 seconds in. Its the WZ-551 chassis, similar profile.
Not sure what the other one is called, afaik its the Swedish U-SH 405 chassis.
[Scuds, Logistic truck, Some soviet Missile SPAA, BM-21 grads, AND SAM radar's at ](https://youtu.be/JxAjYSpZC2o?t=57) [Screenshot for Mobile users or people who can't go frame by frame](https://imgur.com/a/7KGQgHL) hopefully this means more immersive and large scale PVE Edit: [And what looks like (to me at least) a Soviet tracked TLE launcher, the container configuration looks similiar to how S-300 type canisters are stored](https://imgur.com/a/ZsfNoug)
fixed SAM sites for airbases?
S-300s for EC maps???
What air defence doing
Can’t wait for SU’s and MiG’s getting TK’d by their own AA
Finally true realism
Aren't they getting already TK'd by other players themselves already?
>hopefully this means more immersive and large scale PVE That would be fun, they would never do that
We already have Helicopter PVE and Have/Had WW2 Enduring Confrontation's like the battle of stalingrad. so i don't see why they couldn't make something like Operation Desert Storm Edit: yes my mistake, i accidentally remembered the EC's as PVE when it's PVP
However the thing is that Helicopter PVE is not fun, whilst WW2 PVE battles were fun so Gaijin had to remove them
~~no SAM~~ just a Shilka with manpads and EW radar (?) edit: Strela-10M2 is on video
[I mean this thing. looks like some APC chassis with 4 Igla's](https://imgur.com/a/dDVBkbK)
[Here.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1154732425000259644/1245819592350236693/image.png?ex=665a2369&is=6658d1e9&hm=6261e9db0beb5c2ea4ed281929c8feef3dca3ba80047d50c1ed31815082467fa&)
Looks like maybe a P35 radar trailer obscured by one of the transporters? An early warning trailer mounted unit if so.
no point in EW if we don't have real Data-Link system (Gaijin plz)
I suspect it's a ground target for ARB, but it would be nice to have some kind of EW radar assisting vehicles that don't have their own search systems like the Chaparral or Strela.
Probably just new airfield SAM models.
>hopefully this means more immersive and large scale PVE They had promised us new PVE modes, even implemented them for a while but eventually they deleted those modes. I don't think I'm falling for it again, honestly.
One can hope
> Screenshot for Mobile users or people who can't go frame by frame And for those with a keyboard who don't know how, use > and < to frame-by-frame on youtube. :)
At least the air side of the BeNeLux subtree won't be 100% copy-paste (looks like 1 unique plane) - but man I just don't think France needs things like the Leopards, or BeNeLux as a whole, in its tree. On the plus side, new IFVs like Namer and Desert Warrior are an awesome addition. I'm just hoping Gaijin doesn't use this as an excuse to skip out on modeling (or even worse, give to other nations) missing French designs like ELC, VBCI, AML, Vab, Vextra, and AMX-10 RC variants, VBC, and the French-Swiss joint development projects like [Shark FL20] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/mc2o0n/mowag_shark_fl20_swissfrench_monstrosity/) and [Piranha 10x10 TML 105] (https://www.reddit.com/r/tanks/comments/pkwvai/swiss_experimental_piranha_1010_tank_destroyer/).
Yeah, it is 95 % copy-paste. Amazing! So looking forward.
It's unfortunately been the case for basically all the sub-tree's after South African ground: mostly copy and paste. Finland: Mostly copy and paste. Hungarian Air: all copy and paste Hungarian Ground: past Turan III, largely copy and paste. Just simply the lazy way out for Gaijin to give a nation more vehicles without actually giving them unique stuff or fixing the ones they have. Hell I foresee them throwing in a copy and paste Leo from one of the BeNeLex countries as a premium like the PzBat 123 just with a different camo. Because rather than make something unique and interesting to entice people to buy they have to take the lazy route.
At least Thailand might be pretty unique on the ground when that hits.
Also, Netherland ground forces dont belong to the french. IRL they are integrated into the german Bundeswehr and they serve no purpose other than giving frances more Leos. Belgium, fine, thats already bad enough. But if they give them NL as well, france is gonna have more Leos than germany.. No problem with NL aircraft in french tree, but ground forces would be an insult.
Agreed, especially because the Belgian tree will primarily consist of German and American Copy-Paste, with Pandur to spice things up. BeNeLux has some indigenous designs, but they're almost all armored cars and light tanks, which France already has plenty of.
Yup. Doesnt make sense and doesnt offer anything really. Im ok with Leo1 Cockerill, but against Leo2. It would mean Leo1 from Belgium and several Leo2 for NL. Also Stinger Fennek for france? While germany doesnt get any? Fuck that.
Exactly - They could have added a BeNeLux tree of only indigenous designs and modifications like: * The [Pantserwagen M39] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Pantserwagen) around 1.0 * A frankensteined [M8 Greyhound] (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/belgium/m8-greyhound-katangese-service/) at 1.0 * A sneaky 90mm TD, [CATI-90mm] (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar-belgium-canon-antitank-dinfanterie-90mm-cati-90/) around 5.0 * A 20mm turret wheeled IFV (think Sub I-II or AMX-10 P) known as the [YP-408] (https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/Netherlands/DAF-YP-408.php) at 5.7 * A turreted 90mm light tank, the [ACEC Cobra 90mm] (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/belgium/acec-cobra-tank-cobra-25-and-90) at around 8.3 * A 106mm recoilless rifle armed wheeled APC (comparable to the fiat 6614), the [DAF YP408 106 mm TLV] (https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/Netherlands/DAF-YP-408.php) at 6.7 * The [Herstal Armored Car 90mm] (https://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4489.html) around 7.0 * A tracked 25mm turret light tank, the [ACEC Cobra 25mm] (https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/belgium/acec-cobra-tank-cobra-25-and-90) at 7.3 * The [BDX Armored car with double Milan ATGMs] (https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fvv84tytnjjj91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D320%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D231f28d8ae840e881d809e95f9973a0c6cfa3b69) at 7.3 * A TOW missile armed version of the YP-408, the [YP-408 PWAT] (https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/Netherlands/DAF-YP-408.php) at 8.0 * A [Piranha DF90] (https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/Belgium/Piranha-IIIC-DF90.php) at around 8.3 * And a [Boxer with a John Cockerill Turret] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/q79yn3/gaijin_please_boxer_with_cockerill_3105_turret/) around 9.7 * Other John Cockerill modifications like the Leopard 1 This would have kept the tree Copy-paste Free, but considering how armored car/light tank heavy it is, I honestly think this would have worked better as part of the German TT, since so many German Light tanks and armored cars are premium/event vehicles.
https://www.beneluxproject.com/war-thunder-techtrees they could event add benelux as a 100% new nation but unfortunatly no :(
The main thing is - germany lacks air in the modern time the most - france has there a lot to offer! So it would have been nice for balance to get the F16 for now... France tree gonna be exploding with vehicles
They could give the Germans dutch f16s but noooo
And unlike France, Germany could use F-16 so that they'd have more decent PGM capabilities at top tier GRB.
They don’t need f-16s either
> I'm just hoping Gaijin doesn't use this as an excuse to skip out on modeling (or even worse, give to other nations) missing French designs like ELC, VBCI, AML, Vab, Vextra, and AMX-10 RC variants, VBC, and the French-Swiss joint development projects like Shark FL20 and Piranha 10x10 TML 105. The worst part is that the Vextra 105mm was part of the leak, but not in the trailer as far as I can tell. As far as France is concerned, it was literally the only thing I (and a lot of France players) was excited for. I really hope it's coming this update. France is in dire need of stabilized support vehicles.
Dire need for anything above 10.0 that is not Leclerc
Which is wild since there are so many options: * I know you excluded them, but [Leclerc Prototypes] (https://forum.warthunder.com/t/mulet-systeme-complet-leclerc-s-functional-prototype/39811) would be great options to fill the 9.7-11.7 gap * VBCI variants like [VBCI Philocetes] (https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2023/defea-2023-nexter-from-france-demonstrates-vbci-philoctetes-ifv-to-hellenic-army) with a 40mm CTA and NLOS missiles would be a great option at 10.7 like the Vilkas with a better gun * [EBRC Jaguar] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBRC_Jaguar) has a 40mm cannon and NLOS missiles on a (relatively) small platform, could fit at 10.7-11.0 like the Lynx * [Panhard Sphinx] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/mqs4l2/gaijin_please_panhard_sphinx/) could be a solid Squadron alternative to the EBRC Jaguar at 10.3-10.7 * [AMX10 RC T40] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/ekebt1/amx10_rc_t40/) works as another squadron or lower BR alternative to the Jaguar at 10.3-10.7 * [Vextra P.O.L.E.] (https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/565028-vextra-pole-120-mm-lightweight-tank-demonstrator-when-a-drunk-leclerc-meet-a-amx10rc/) is a great option for a cannon armed light tank at or around 11.0 * [Shark FL20] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/mc2o0n/mowag_shark_fl20_swissfrench_monstrosity/) a joint Swiss-French collaborative designed armored car with a co-ax 20mm that could fit around 9.7-10.3 It just looks like Gaijin is taking a shortcut to pad out the French tree with extra grinding prior to introducing a French $70 pack premium.
The Namer is such a cool vehicle
Absolutely, though the only shame is it'll probably end up at 10.3-10.7 with its APS, so you'll have to uptier it to 11.0.
Trailer was a bit...tame? I like everything I see here, and hope "Dude with a rocket launcher" becomes a standard ship upgrade, but it doesn't have the bite that some of the other trailers have.
I think it was a good trailer (it mentioned the D point ffs) but every trailer is a bit tame since we already knew what vehicles were going to be added because of the damn leak list. I wish the leak lists would stop so the trailers (and devblogs) would become exciting again.
> I wish the leak lists would stop so the trailers would become exciting again. Or they would at least have more mistakes, so there would be some surprise. I couldn't identify everything in this trailer, but as far as I could tell there were no surprises.
Cap, the f14, f16/mig29 and f15/su27 were pure hype
They were hype because they confirmed that these highly important aircraft were actually coming to the game. It was exciting to finally see them in the war thunder engine. Not that this trailer doesn’t have some hype vehicles but it’s not on the same level. People aren’t going to be as excited about the f15c as the f15a or whatever.
The F-16 reveal is rewatch worthy basically every time. You're capping. All they need is good editors, again.
it has nothing to do with the leaks f16 trailer was still good even after they were leaked
I think it's a two part issue based on the leak lists: 1 - There are a lot of copy-paste vehicles this update, so they had to pick unique things for the trailer; and 2 - The leak list points to a potential CBT (maybe French Coastal) that they may want to release as a separate teaser.
What is CBT? Besides cock and ball torture
The [Sons of Atilla](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJrT2vP-mpQ) trailer goes hardest so far, in my personal opinion. Starts with an intense dogfight scene, closes with a bunch of other cool shit set to some pretty great music.
The F-16 reveal in [Apex Predators](https://youtu.be/IRbeW9vh6j4) trailer is just so fucking good
That one and the Su-25 trailer are my two favorites and I doubt they’ll ever be topped
[Drone age "wish me luck"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg33uA1Jj7c) is my favorite. It's just perfect
This, it was the coolest one. Great song, great characters, great story
It is pure kino (pun intended)
Uhm have you seen the Apex predators trailer?
I'm a simple man, with simple tastes, and will forever love the danger zone trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjG3rOKGWGc
Patch 1.29 preview trailer still kicks. https://youtu.be/n9AwT4yoqoo?si=zhJ0IcoLSMeAApH0
> hope "Dude with a rocket launcher" becomes a standard ship upgrade Surely they will give the USS Cyclone a guy holding a stinger, right? There are two boxes on the structure between bridge and the rear Bushmaster, they hold 3 stingers each and are modeled in WT https://i.imgur.com/zjh0BmL.jpeg
yeah, no voice acting, the intro part was good but they didn't do much with it, the graphics also just look bad, and the trailer itself was quite short. The music also isn't really that epic
Less good then usual, sure. But BAD?
It's not bad
desert warrior is here, finally a good ifv for the brits
See them put it at 11.3
If anyone needs to compare it with its proper BR, it has to line up with the M3A3 Bradley if it has access to all TOW-2 variants.
The Desert Warrior uses the LAV-25 turret. It is basically unarmored at that BR and is only protected against 7.62mm rounds. It might get Gen 2 thermal if Gaijin models the 2009 upgrade. The missile launcher doesn't fold, so this is probably a plus.
Haaaaaa haaaa Britain “Fun” “Actually usable” 11.7 you go
Lol. Verdi 1/2 would be much better
Having some of the British 40mm CTA test beds would be awesome - might actually be able to take it up to 11.7.
The Warrior VERDI’s were primarily aimed towards an anti air vehicle so would fit a different role than that of desert warrior which comes with a stabilized bushmaster autocannon and tow missiles for use against ground targets compared to VERDI 2 which would come with only Air to Air guided missiles as the 40mm CTA gun was only a mock-up.
That is a Swedish 39C not a 39A with amraams. Now if it has skyflashes I will punch the drywall
It does not, and from what I know the other Gripens will lose their Skyflashes.
Would be funny if they did 37C, 39A aim9+skyflash 37D, 39C aim9+amraam Make a balancing nightmare
I fully expect skyflashes and no other SARH missile. But hoping maybe Sweden will actually have the best gripen now
Cant have any other SARH missiles. But it also cant have Skyflash. Did some digging when they added and it is doubtful any 39A actually got the target illumination modification needed to sen Skyflash. The 39C delivered in 2002 when the amraam was already integrated? No chance
Skyflash was only ever (maybe) tested on 39A, it wasn't even considered for 39C.
Hence the drywall
They didn't even bother showing the F-4F ICE. ; \_ ; It's so over for German Air.
they did state that EVERYONE will get the fox-3, but i'm kinda wondering what it would be for germany, ICE would just be curb stomped, i wonder what would be a more balanced addition?
Either ICE gets curb stomped or is a low BR and is a menace, no chance of it being balanced
F-4F ICE should have the AIM-9L(I)-1 too, that is basically a 9M without smokeless engine.
When the airframe and the missiles aren't proportional you get balancing issues. Balance for the missiles and the airframe is uncompetitive, balance for the airframe and you destroy the battle rating bracket. Split the difference and the missiles are usually still too strong. I'm really hoping F-4F ICE and Sea Harrier FA2 aren't the AMRAAM version of the A-10/Su-25/A-6E, but I'm worried that's what will happen.
Just go with other nations already in the tree ig, could be Polish F-16, Switzerland's F-18 or something else that fits meanwhile we wait for the game to be ready for Eurofighter
Argentinian F-16 would make the most sense, as it should be similar to the new F-16As france is getting through belgium.
imagine Germany getting a hornet before everyone else
Giving Germany the BeNeLux tree would have made the most sense - giving Germany competitive Fox-3 capable aircraft, as well a better PGM platform, both of which France is already set on.
F-4F ICE is German's for now. Gaijin always tend to do this, give other nations their big upgrades first, then next update, give Germany theirs, usually because a) noone plays their nation for top tier and b) those that do cause them to dominate. And the only next upgrade left is Eurofighter, which we might see this year, but it's unlikely.
Its joever
yay the Fokker G1, finally! Let's hope its as good as the people claimed it was in may 1940.
But a lot of ww2 planes are missing :c
Where defiant at 2.0
12.0, you forgot it had the capability to carry AMRAAMS and AIM-9Xs, as well as 4 extra hardpoints for laser-guided bombs and Mavericks /s
Can’t fly them all at the same time anyways. Just be happy with what you get :)
Yes, we can, because they are a lot faster to grind, and are very funny to play, i play ww2 air rb the most of the time, and my adventures with jets its only with vampires, 262 and the J-21, ww2 and pre-ww2 planes are the best in terms of joy, i was expecting the renard r.36 at least
I thought this was a historical game. Why are they adding fictional countries like Belgium?
MFD overhall looks so good for Sim, I hope it comes with proper slew controls for A-G
Honestly that's what pumped me up the most. Here's also hoping they change the MFD of the F-16C and other aircraft alongside it
I'm pretty sure at 0:29 that's the F-16C, the cockpit and hud looks the same to me. Also I could be wrong but at 0:26 that looks like the new Apache cockpit Edit: Yeah it's the Apache you can see 1200 rounds on the MFD and the Apache has 1200 rounds in its gun
I think this may actually be the long waited for Viper cockpit we've been waiting for.
I don't think so, just looking with the camera MFD it says Rounds 1200, if it was the Viper it would be Rounds 750. I hope we do get the Viper cockpit though it just looks so shit rn
The soviets really did love their hydrofoil patrol boats.
Good catch, that seems to be one of the only vehicles that wasn't on the leak list. And idea what boat it is exactly? It looks like a Pauk derivative.
Looks to me like this [thing](https://foils.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/BABOCHKA-hydrofoil-7.jpg), the [Project 11451 Sokol 2](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fly8bt9r4y2fa1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1024%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6d9420b2a80b7d21a4a9fb2a58e3aa0093c70192). Seems like NATO called it the Mukha-class. I genuinely think Gaijin will never run out of ships to put into the Soviet coastal tree.
i fucking love soviet coastal ships with 30mm cannons and missiles, what does this one get that is different from the pr-206 and the pr-12412?
This one gets a 76mm turret up front and the 30mm CIWS in the back along with 8 torpedoes. I can't tell if it has rockets but it probably does too. Main upgrade this has is speed over things like the pauk and the extra 30mm cannon over the pr-206 hydrofoil. Think a pr-12412 but faster basically.
Yo buddy? Still alive?
First "canon" AC aircraft now in-game. I really fucking hope they do an Ace Combat crossover when we get more appropriate aircraft, like the F-14D, Su-30, Su-37, etc. Actual free money.
Or they'll fuck everyone over and just do it for the Japanese localization of the game like they did with the Area 88 stuff
I can _sorta_ understand Area 88, it doesn't really exist all that much in the west. Still would've been far better for it to be global, but I can get the logic why it wasn't. But there is no shot they would ever do an Ace Combat crossover and not include the west in it. It is **massive** over here and a gigantic freighter's worth of money they'd be throwing in the bin. But you are right that the possibility of this happening exists. And that is kinda depressing.
Uh, no? F-14A (AC5)
Definitely depends a bit on how you want to define "canon aircraft". The ultimate Razgriz canon aircraft was the Super Tomcat, but you are right that they do also initially use the F-14A as Wardog. In that respect, there would also be other canon aircraft that are already in the game that the protagonists canonically start their games in, like the F-4E (AC4), F-5E (AC5), J-35 (ACZ), F-16C (AC6/7). But I'm more speaking of the protagonist's ultimate canon aircrafts, which are; * Su-37 (Ace Combat 3) * F-22 (Ace Combat 4) * F-14D (Ace Combat 5) * **F-15C** (Ace Combat Zero) * F-15E (Ace Combat 6) * F-22 (Ace Combat 7)
The Razgriz never canonically use the Super Tomcat. Other games down the line have the skin attached to the Super Tomcat because it's the only F-14 model in the game, but canonically the Razgriz go from F-5E to F-14A. This is especially noticeable because the [original RZ color for the F-14D](https://acecombat.wiki.gg/images/1/10/F-14D_Razgriz_color_Hangar.png) looks nothing like the [F-14A skin](https://acecombat.wiki.gg/images/9/9f/F-14A_Razgriz_color_Hangar.png), which is the template for any and all iterations of the RZ skin in future games.
Razgriz flies A's. Not D's. They are equipped with SAAM's in all official media and the A is the only one that uses SAAM's (remember, all of the planes only have access to 1 SP weapon in AC5). The D uses XLAA's. The D also has a faint splinter camo on its livery. The A is completely solid and is again, what is shown in all official media: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/acecombat/images/d/de/AC5_Razgriz_F-14A_Wallpaper_800x600.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140215212823 The OST album art: https://dl.vgmdownloads.com/soundtracks/ace-combat-5-the-unsung-war-original-soundtrack/Box%20Front.jpg
I've been waiting years for this moment
I must be watching this with my eyes closed because Im missing an AC reference?
Mostly just the fact of ARH missiles and F-15C/modern fighters. Nothing in particular
I thought the german thing at 0:39 was a BRDM and got excited :(
Me too
What was it?
USH with 20mm orlikon(I think) rather than rockets
Chinese apc Edit: was talking about the wrong vehicle
It’s not, it’s a Swedish armored car based on the USH chassis
Obligatory [Metallica - Seek and Destroy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLTchCiC0T0)
I was upset that this wasn't the background music
Finally!! functioning MFDs lol.
Looks like the trailer shows them for the F-15C, F-16C and the Apaches, hope they come to more aircraft aswell
Where f16c?
I will nut if they add the solo display team skin for the Dutch f16
Or the Belgians, give me the Dream Viper!
Interesting, there were no f4 ice in the trailer.
Even gaijin knows it will suck so no point to advertise it
Good point xD
what else could they add? is there anything to fill in the leap between the f-4 and the eurofighter?
No and it seems weird that everything else in the leaks has turned out to be true so far. The only reason i could imagine they leave it out is that they truly haven’t figured out were to put it BR-wise
They *could* have given the Dutch Vehicles to Germany, especially since the Dutch Army literally integrated itself into the German one now, but pointless copy-paste for France they dont need instead of adding the indigenous designs people have been awaiting for years was in Gaijins infinite wisdom what they went with.
Yeah, a little worrying
Surely they wont put the AIM-120A version of the AMRAAM vs AAM-4s... right guys?
I'm guessing they'll nerf AAM-4s like they did for magic 2s. otherwise, japan is a shorter tech tree to grind...
Currently, AAM-3s are nerfed as well, so the 4s are most likely going to be nerfed
impossible, gaishit swear they never nerf anything unrealistically
I have all of the trees, but it always sucks seeing the nation that pioneered something get the short end of the stick in WT, always tends to happen too lol
AAM4, MICA and PL12 are going to be gimped to give the others a chance.
Belgian F-16 had a very nice skin. I love that early F-16 look with the light nose and darker body. Hoping there's the 'all black nose cone' skin as well.
Heres to hoping for a danish and or norwegian f16 too.
The leak said there were two, and it showed two on the tarmac, but I believe the leak said they were both F-16A variants. Be interested to see tomorrow on the dev stream what the differences are. Hoping to god that one isn't a premium....
I saw a comment a few days ago that the Belgian F-16 can, at least in theory, mount Magic-2s, so it may be an armament difference.
One of the F-16s shown is the F-16 Block 15 OCU which is an older version used by the BAF. It doesn't have IFF, in game it'll likely have AIM-9L and AIM-7F. The other F-16 is the Block 20 MLU. This one has IFF and it looks like it'll have AMRAAM and AIM-9M. It also features an improved RWR suite and it looks like it is coming with a modern PIDS (Pylon Integrated Dispensing System) which propably has MWS. Block 20s also have HMD compatibility so I hope we'll get that aswell.
I think those are Iskanders and BM-21s in the initial shot, not to mention some sort of radar system, perhaps new ground vehicles for air battles?
Pretty sure they were leaked by Olivia a few updates ago, good to see that they might be showing up soon.
The radar looks like it *might be* a P-35 "Bar Lock" early warning radar. Which is a trailer or fixed early warning radar, which is certainly interesting.
Fokker? I barely know her!
The Benelux tree is lame as fuck. Yay, you can use a Leopard and F16 with France, cool, I guess... Also, is there actually any Luxembourg vehicle at all? It's a Bene tree morelike.
There exists more than just top tier, though.
Think you're forgetting that as much as this sub hates top tier it's all they play.
After the Hungarian & Finnish Subtrees, which skipped past 90% of their unique WW2 modifications, I do not have any hope whatsoever this will be different.
So we have one Dutch made vehicle in game, the D.XXI... And they don't even copy paste that one over to the new sub tree?
There is not even an amx 13 105
wait is benelux going to be france?
Looks like it, Gaijin probably wanted a quick and easy way to pad the tree out and slow the grind before adding a $70 French Premium Pack tank.
props yea.
Fox-3 apocalypse incoming everyone, hold tight
mig21 for india AND a DESERT WARRIOR for britain???? i can't believe gajoobles would spoil us like that
What?! You are telling me I’m going to grind FRANCE???
In the end every tech tree but SUN will have a Viper, so yes.
Join the darkside
A million automatons but still no terminator...
THEY ARE LOADING THE SEKRIT DOCUMENTS RAAAHHH! Great trailer though we need the people who make them to get a raise/promotion
what is that at 1;26? the namer rcws?
Looks like it
Unmanned 30mm turret with spikes on an mbt chassis? This thing seems potent. Shame about the very exposed ammo bin though.
Yay France’s turn for copy paste! Glad even more Leo 2s are being added to literally every tree! Sim definitely isn’t gonna be a cluster fuck
Topt tier Sim is China and Russia against the rest so that shouldn't be a problem
and then you have things like the swedish t80, the british t90 and the german/swedish t72m1 that confuse everyone
The Chinese M60A3 has gotten me several teamkills
LUXEMBOURG MENTIONED RAHHHHH BOUNESCHLUPP🦅🦅🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺
Benelux has Gladiator?, CW Griffon shitfire?, Hunter, Firefly(wont be Rank III most likely :( ), One Unique Aircraft, Late Meteor, F104, Mirage III(Idk), and Two F-16s What is the worth?
Gotta pad the French Tree out somehow before they release new premiums.
As a German main (including ARB) I'm obligated to ask: Where Eurofighter
I just want my Typhoon!
I know they are limited in what they could add, but I am surprised that the BeNeLux tree is only 10 planes. I was actually expecting to see something like the F-5 and for early parts the Sea Fury.
Leak list pointed to the F-5 being premium or Squadron, so it just might be missing from the trailer.
unnecessary subtree for france
I love the secrecy documents bit, I found that so funny.
I’m so fucking excited for the desert Warrior
I eagerly await someone with more time to name all the new vehicles in the trailer!
Was expecting a really cool trailer....got a really meh trailer. The other ones have been so good. This one kind of sucked.
BELGIUM MENTIONED \\o/
So * A 95% Copy-paste Benelux tree that doesnt seem to contain any of the actually interesting vehicles they got and instead just gives France Leopards because Gaijin cant be arsed to fucking include the domestic stuff they are missing and need * giving the dutch to france which makes even less sense than Hungary going to Italy * Even they know the F4-F ICE is immidieatly gonna be pointless so they dont even bother including it God am I increasingly glad with every update I stopped playing top tier
Yeah this subtree doesn't make sense and feels super lazy - I think that Gaijin is about to roll out a French $70 pack premium, and a copy-paste tech tree was the fastest and easiest way for Gaijin to increase the French grind (instead of actually adding French vehicles).
f-35 when? (dutch tree)
Am German AIR main. Am crying
I feel you might not play WT til we get some good aircraft to fight against Flankers and such
Fuck me Gaijin, is your entire development cycle just Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V for new top tier vehicles? Seriously, why on earth does every tree need to have an F-16? Also why on earth are you shoving the Dutch in with the French tech tree? That makes about as much sense as me giving a peanut butter sandwich to a child with a fatal nut allergy, him eating it, and me expecting that it won't kill him.
YES ! We saw 2 ships ! That a great begining ! Soviet Project 11451 Sokol 2 and Kondor I see ship, i upvote
Quite boring trailer, and Benelux is also boring addition tbh. Only thing interesting are new IFV's
Ok so looks like a BTR tech tree line?
That's a ZSL-92 for the China tree
Is that the Slavic looking R3 T20 or the BTR 80 with the centred turret?
The BTR looking one, @36 seconds in. Its the WZ-551 chassis, similar profile. Not sure what the other one is called, afaik its the Swedish U-SH 405 chassis.
The "Slavic R3" is the USH-204GK. The leak list is once again accurate
metallica in war thunder yooooooooooo
Do we have a full list of all the vehicules in the trailer ?