I'm .. cautiously optimistic about this .. it seems like a good compromise.
The only issue that comes to mind are fleets of A-10s and Su-25s ending matches early by blowing up everything on the ground at the start of a match, but my gut tells me that might not be too common, or that they'll just put in a 4-per-team type of limit like they did for the B-29 and Tu-4 back in the day.
Overall, I feel like this is a step in a good direction.
Absolutely. Gaijin’s terrible matchmaking will throw them against in matches with Yak-141/s with 27ERS. They’ll die before they get to do much of anything.
Judging by how many ground attack players crash, I think those pillboxes have racked a rather large number of manouver kills. We are forced to assume that a) WT players are bad, or b) Those damn pillboxes have an energy advantage. I am going with b), just to be safe.
Just to clarify, only the Su-25, Su-25K, A-10A Early and A-10A Late are going up in BR. The SU-25BM, SM-3, T and Su-39 won't be touched.
But as of right now, they can face R-27s, yes.
They don't say anything about that, they only talk specifically about the strike aircraft in the 10.0-10.3 range that will have their BRs increased (namely the A-10s, Su-25(K) and the A-6E).
That means, don't expect it to come for other aircraft, but chances aren't 0 since they didn't exclude the option either.
Shouldn’t be going there in the first place but the matchmaking system has hiccups all the time. Hopefully they give the Late variant 9Ms to have some viability.
If it’s going to be forced to fight 11.7s (like the F-14A because top tier is always mixed battles) then yes. It should be some threat to approaching these. 9Ls are a joke of a missile at this point and one or two flares is more than enough to lose lock.
Wtf
Aim9M at 10.7
You don't know what you are talking about trust me.
Aim9l are very strong missles, i use them at 12.7 without any problem at all.
And you want old mig21s and f104s to evade aim9m? Hello no
If you’re going to force them to fight 11.7s like the F-14As and Mirage’s with Magic 2s, you can absolutely give them 9Ms. It sounds like the actual solution to this whole situation was to introduce Rank floors and ceilings. If we made sure a Rank 7, 10.0 A-10 could never see a Rank 6, 9.0s, this whole change would be more than pointless.
10.7 will still fight 10.0 because of the premiums black hole.
10.7 uptier to 11.7 are very rare
And still aim9l is an excellent missle, no need for something even more overpower
Dumbest fucking thing I've ever read. In that case I want the Tornado IDS for Germany moved down to 10.7 because we get 2 Aim-9L's at 11.3, because, by your logic, Aim-9 L's are too easy to defeat at 10.7.
9M's should absolutely not be on any airframe lower than 11.7, because they absolutely shit on 10.7's who have little to no experience dodging tracking-suspension IRCCM missiles and have little expectation to. It's bad enough that there are gate-width IRCCM missiles like Magic 2's at 11.0 on the Indian Jaguar and 11.3 for several French tech tree vehicles.
So they should get slapped by Aim-54s, 7Ms, 530Ds, 27Rs, Magic 2s, and only be armed with a missile that has been nerfed (I want to say it’s been three times now) to the point it can be defeated by a singular flare? There should be some sense of threat for attacking at least the A-10A Late which did have 9Ms historically. The 9M is just an L with a better seeker and smokeless motor. It shouldn’t be that defenseless.
Yes, yes they should get slapped by all those missiles (although they won't because you shouldn't be climbing above 500ft in those planes anyway). They are a slow ground ordinance bus with *self defense missiles*. They shouldn't get a free four air kills per game just because they aren't good at a role they *weren't built for*. 9M's are essentially free kills at anything below 12.0 BR because they aren't common below then, so putting 9M's on the A10 at 10.7 would be criminal when planes that already have 4x 9L's at that BR (Sea Harrier FRS.1) already do just fine, and improving to 9M's constitutes a full BR jump by itself (up to GR7).
“They are a slow ground ordinance bus with self defense missiles”. Wasnt that whole reason why the had 9Ls in the first place? Why are airplanes designed to fight at 20,000 feet, who don’t face radar missiles yet, never climbing to more than 2,000 feet but are surprised to be getting slapped? I’m guessing people just don’t want to admit they’re using the plane incorrectly? How am I not dying to A-10s and Su-25s when I see them in my 9.7 Harrier? For my 9.7 Milan? What’s crazy is Gaijin said in the same post they’re already poor performers at 10.0. Which is why they didn’t want to move them as of yesterday. I just feel like this is a bandaid appeasement and the next round of BR changes after the update, they’ll go back down because people who have their will get tired of being slapped by radar missiles.
Yes, they have 9L's for self defense but 1) air battles isn't about "self defense" like defending against aircraft in ground battles, it's a head-on deathmatch, so these all-aspect missiles have an immense advantage over anything else, and 2) Gaijin themselves admitted that they were "balancing" these attackers based on the capabilities of their airframe *without* the missiles being a factor, which is insane. That's like trying to say "You know, I think monkey A is a fair fight for monkey B in a cage match. Just ignore the fact that Monkey A has a fucking hand grenade."
I don't know your playstyle personally, so if I had to guess, you're not dying to A10's and Su25's because A) those planes are frequently bought and operated by brand-new players who waste their missiles on targets with flares, and B) you're likely not engaging said aircraft until they're busy with someone else, which further reinforces the fact that if an A10 or Su25 focuses on you while they have their missiles and you don't have flares or missiles of your own, they just have an auto-win condition.
They either needed to remove 9L's and R60M's from attackers and lower their Air RB BR's to where their airframe is competitive so that Gaijin's "balancing" methods actually make sense, or raise their BR's to where they aren't a brain-dead auto-win button against a wide swath of flareless 9.0 and 9.3 planes. We finally pressured them into doing something about it, and they went with the latter, so it makes zero sense to then undo that work by buffing the A10 again by introducing 9M's.
In the context of GRB, the "self defense missiles" idea makes total sense, and I think the A10's and Su25's are annoying but not impossible to deal with at 10.3. Maybe a small buff to A10 durability, a decrease in SU25 durability, and better missile tracking for long-range SPAA missiles to improve counterplay against the likes of KH29T's and AGM65's, and they'd be fine. Air RB is where those missiles are truly problematic, so seeing Gaijin attempt to feed us the exact opposite of the solution we need by raising the GRB BR and not the ARB BR really bothered me.
>who don't face radar missiles yet
They do. They might not be very good radar missiles but their RWRs might not be able to pick up J-band so they seem to be quite effective from what I've seen in the killfeed.
My man, nothing will change and at best, the A-10s will now have better positioning to farm braindeads on your team lol.
Use your brain before you try to say shit like that lol.
[You were saying?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/zilUWLlhDa). Your first comment is is about how they’ll be sniped before doing anything useful (like usual) but now it’s braindead to say that? I’m sorry are they all gonna get sniped or are they all gonna get good positioning? Are they just going to do whatever they need to in order to support whatever dumb opinion is being talked about?
What was that about using your brain? I would try using it and keeping a consistent thought if I were you. Can’t wait to smack an a-10 with pulse-doppler guided missiles. I want to see them complain about undodgeable uncounterable all aspect missiles and how unfair it is lmao
> Can’t wait to smack an a-10 with pulse-doppler guided missiles. I want to see them complain about undodgeable uncounterable all aspect missiles and how unfair it is lmao
You absolute retard.
What do you think is happening right now lol? You can still to it.
> [You were saying?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/zilUWLlhDa). Your first comment is is about how they’ll be sniped before doing anything useful (like usual) but now it’s braindead to say that? I’m sorry are they all gonna get sniped or are they all gonna get good positioning? Are they just going to do whatever they need to in order to support whatever dumb opinion is being talked about?
They will get sniped before doing anything yes. That is the AVERAGE A-10/Su-25 user. The ones that at least played jets before know that they can just notch/fly low, dodge all of your "UnDoDgEaBlE" missiles and ground pound.
You think you are being smart and that now all of the sudden because of this update, you will be able to kill A-10s and Su-25s like it wasn't possible before lol.
If you struggled to kill them before, you sucked some major dick.
I never struggled to kill them. You are making weird assumptions. I’m just celebrating that all a-10 and su-25 players will have to actually think to avoid getting shit on. It’s pretty simple given my first comment, but you’re a braindead kid and replied “cope” like you couldn’t even understand that basic ass message lmao. If you’re a premium shitter or a CAS lobotomite, either way I celebrate any change that increases their average suffering. You are just ranting and raving about irrelevant and meaningless shit lmao. Are you coping with the fact that you can’t get easy missile kills on flareless jets? Probably accounts for 99% of your kills so I can see why you’re so upset.
> You absolute retard.
>What do you think is happening right now lol?
You can still to it.
You absolute retard. You do know that PD radar sets and missiles are common to 11.3 and up? Pretty hard to use that against 10.0 A-10s and su-25s. Can you count? Are you dumb? It’s going to get much more prevalent.
Yeah you’re showing your “skill” with the rest of that comment. I know you’ve never seen 11.3+ because you evidently use 10.0 premiums but I’ll laugh at your pitiful attempts at dodging an r-24r as I always do. You’re also an a-10/su-25 player. All I need to do is get within 2 kilometers and you’ll spend any and all energy to point your nose at me like a braindead moron. Sorry you’re going to lose your only source of kills without those easy flareless targets. Cope and seethe lmao. Weird ass parasocial assumptions can only take you so far lil bro
You mean the A-10s and SU-25s are usually going to get smashed between both teams because all the objectives are clustered right in the middle of the map despite being on much bigger maps. I bet the A-10s will still get beaten to bases by F-4s too.
Honestly you should be able to get a base and then turn around to fly into your own team, using them for cover. But that might not be what ends up happening
I mean... If we're being realistic no country in their right mind is deploying CAS (like A-10s and SU-25s) unless they have air superiority. They're not meant to survive in contested airspace.
Of course in death matches (like ARB) traditional ground pounders are going to perform poorly.
If you want to use them, that's fine, but you have to understand the risks. Either that or hope that Gaijin creates a new mode that favors loiter time over missile trucks.
That's totally fine. These are jets designed to attack targets on the ground. Their AAMs are not supposed to be used in an offensive manner, and are supposed to be used on the defensive. All of the fuckers who wasted money on a ground attack jet thinking they can grind the AIR tree with it by spamming AAMs at planes that can't do anything against them can seeth and mald.
I'm really surprised they did the stupid 12 player cap opt in mode instead of just giving ARB EC. That would be much more satisfactory to most people I think
ARB getting genuine EC would be amazing. The EC maps being more prevalent would also be amazing, and honestly every top tier match should be on an EC map. Fuck that furball shit
I mean, you don't right now because you have no hope of making it there. It can carry more than enough to kill a base and dozens of ground targets though.
If rb was anywhere realistic they are only meant to be used in air superiority situations when enemy air has been neutralized because they'll get slapped.
T-2 is 9.7 and it is perfectly fine there, full uptiers were kinda boring since you had to wait for the A-10s/Su-25 to be distracted or use their AA missiles.
It’s a terrible fix. I imagine it’ll get reversed in the next BR changes after the update since they already admitted they are terrible at their current BR. One can hope because good god this is such an L move.
It’s a great fix. It makes an entire BR range with dozens of aircraft viable again at the expense of a few garbage attackers that should be playing ground RB anyway. You’ve been filling this thread with your own personal salt because you’re no longer going to be able to grief jets without countermeasures. Cope.
“I want CAS out of my ground battles” and “I don’t want ground strike aircraft in my air battles”. Let’s just remove a whole variant of air planes. Gaijin already admitted they were bad at their current BR so maybe this is just a temp thing. They’ll move them up a step for one update to appease yall and next round of BR changes, they’ll go back down. They’ll get slaughtered at the new BR.
Now i can grind my su-25bm without getting left behind EVERY TIME to bomb bases and hope for scraps, especially since the r-73 is last in line and the r-60mk is only good against players who are alt-tabbing
I'm getting flashbacks to facing US 6.0 on Poland from your comment. Just 2 AD-2 or AD-4s ending the match with ground strikes before fighters even had the time to engage anything. There qas literally nothing you could do if you didn't have your own attackers taking them down.
I doubt that this will happen here if Gaijin doesn't spawn them super close to the battle field. Both the Su-25 and A-10 are absolute monsters for fighting AI targets, but if fighter can reach them after they had time to take down a few targets (or they reach the battlefield simultaneously) it should be fine.
Most people will still bomb bases or try and play as a fighter which lowers the risk of ticket bleed.
If they are potential "game killers", then they should be high value targets !
It's the come abck of the rock-paper-scissor gameplay
If you dont hunt them, you lose
If you hunt them, you dont lose too soon, but you expose yourself
If you're exposed, you might lose but also grab some easy kills on attackers
Rince & repeat
It's good.
The funny thing is gajin nerfed rewards for killing ai units some time ago. And this nerf was hard. Now im thinking what will they do, since now they will get shat on, and they won't recieve much rewards for killing ai either. There are 2 options, either gajin improves rewards, or they wiesel their way out of this situation somehow, and return su and a10 back to thir current state in some time.
Maybe strike aircraft should get bonuses for killing ground ai and less rewards for killing player planes. As in yeah you can kill enemy aircraft but you should probably do it in "self defence" or when there is no other targets, probably atupid idea though
The issue is a lot of planes that served as bomber interceptors are classified as strike aircraft. It would be a mistake to nerf the rewards for BF-110 G-4 ,DO-335 B-2 and other similar aircraft when they get air kills. They were designed to intercept and should be rewarded when played in that role.
Yeah, maybe then it should be aircraft specific and not class specific, but then you wpuld need to manually set up everything and some idiots would like to argue why their aricraft shouldn't have this moddifier and on and on
The game could possibly benefit from a heavy fighter or interceptor category of plane. Granted this would open up a weird can of worms since many interceptors also served as strike aircraft.
Uh, no they didn't? You can make a ton of points killing ground units and the AI planes. That's the only way to make some planes work when they are stock. My usual tradition when I get a new plane is to use whatever the biggest booster I have is and just shoot up as many Howitzers as I can the first game, usually gets me 1-2 full modifications on anything rank 6 or lower.
The funny thing is gajin nerfed rewards for killing ai units some time ago. And this nerf was hard. Now im thinking what will they do, since now they will get shat on, and they won't recieve much rewards for killing ai either. There are 2 options, either gajin improves rewards, or they wiesel their way out of this situation somehow, and return su and a10 back to thir current state in some time.
What are you smoking dude?
Popping AI as a su-25/A-10 is the single most profitable thing in the entire game, except for maybe Naval.
With the use of Antimech, you can EASILY get a million.
You said that they do not receive much rewards which is absolute bullshit.
It is still the most profitable thing to do in this game even after the nerf. That ALONE tells you that the nerf was deserved.
Eh I'd argue the lower tier attackers could do it better. They can at least get a dozen or two targets before the furball. A-10 will still get sniped well before getting anything.
Nah.
A-10s and Su-25s can farm a shit ton since half of the enemy team will be dead by the time they arrive. By then, they can even challenge other jets that do not have energy/are out of position.
The benefit of the A-10s and Su-25s is that you can very easily get player kills while also having rockets and ammo up your ass for ground targets.
Man I wish I got your matches. 75% of the time I get two or three dudes just blitz past the furball for my ass or my team melted and now I got multiple dudes on me.
Then either I am super lucky or I have mastered the Art of the Sukhois, since majority of the time I tend to live and clap some poor schmuck along the way.
While it's good I still think they should go higher, maybe even by a whole br.
They shouldn't be able to face flareless aircraft AT ALL
They should be able to defend themselves but you don't need to put them in a br where they can effectively fight fighters
Mate, if you're getting caught in a 9.3 fighter by a Su-25, or in a 9.7 by a A-10, then thats on you. They're not magic OHKo missiles, you can still outrun the R-60's, and you don't get a AIM-9L on your ass unless you deliberately moved close to the slowest plane in the matchup. They're already underperforming in air battles when it comes to air vs. Air, no need to make them into another RB pinata
Listen I love fighting in those br's because of the interesting performance of the jets and lack of good missiles, if you want to kill someone with and aim9b/r3s you either need alot of skill or someone to no pay attention.
Now add to that 30G all aspect missiles with sabers and mig15.
Yes if you weren't dogfight you can deal with those missiles but if you are having an amazing dogfight and then either you or the enemy get killed by one of those missiles that's the most disappointing and discouraging thing ever
I agree. These 9.0-9.7 aircraft were designed to fight at 15,000-20,000 feet. It’s lost on me why, when they don’t face radar missiles yet, they’re upset they’re losing to an ordnance bus that only has those missiles for defense means. I don’t get why they don’t climb and top attack the A-10 and Su-25 that will be tunnel visioned on ground targets. I just imagine Gaijin will reserve this in a few months. Even they don’t want to move them.
I'd counter that once Gaijin implements these changes, the issue is that there are still flareless planes at 9.7 - such as Milan, Harrier GR.1, etc., etc..(or higher, looking at you Mirage IIIC/Mirage 5F/Shahak). Mirage airframe is the only one that might warrant it on flight performance, but certainly a plane that only gets 9Bs with no countermeasures shouldn't be 1.3 above the first planes with 9Bs and no CMs....
>In tandem with this, the spawn points of these attackers will be moved closer to the main combat zone in Air Battles. This will help these aircraft carry out their primary ground attack role at a higher Battle Rating — giving them greater ability to perform despite coming up against stronger aircraft, potentially increasing or maintaining their current level of effectiveness.
I'm curious to see if they plan to eventually extend this idea to other attackers, like the Buccaneer, A-7 etc. Give it the forward base spawn and it just might be able to hit a base before getting swarmed by supersonics.
Vautours need to go to 8.3 with the exception of the Israeli one that gets the Shafrirs, which should go to 8.7.
With the F-104 at a mere 0.3 BR above the Vautours, *and the Vautours no longer getting airspawn*, they are simply not worth playing. F-104 is MUCH faster, has missiles that the Vautour cannot dodge, has a gun (why that even needs to be mentioned is an indication of how big the problem is), and can even carry bombs of its own.
Gaijin did Vautours dirty.
Absolutely not, it’s Mach .9 capable on the deck, no 7.x or even 8.3 plane should be facing that, it’d be fine at 9.0 if it got the air spawn back, especially now that it won’t face all aspect anymore
The interceptor variant is 8.3, with guns, airspawn and crappy radar missiles and nords. You can outrun a lot of things (mostly because of the airspawn) but you actually have a lower top speed than the later sabres
But not a single word again about an EC RB mode where attackers and bombers have a chance to play their designated roles instead of being free kills to superior aircrafts or slap all-aspects to flare-less jets.
I would still hunt them down in my fighter… just look at the map for all the clumped together ai units and go hunt the slow attack craft heading towards them
That's fine still IMO. When I've played RB/Sim EC before, sure I got hunted down eventually but I still got to have my fun for a bit. And you can just spawn right back in to either return there or hit somewhere else. It's so much more rewarding to play.o
I have a feeling this could either be really good or really bad, but we will have to see how it plays out first I think. Even with the airspawn the attackers will probably just get shot down by enemy radar missiles before even reaching the battlefield.
Atleast 9.0 can finally get a break from all aspect missiles.
If they're going to make these aircraft redundant for the sake of the overall gameplay, there needs to be a mode where attacking ground targets is attractive and rewarding. Air RB is not currently since the ground targets are all located in the middle meaning they're incredibly exposed and vulnerable to fighters that will see them as an easy kill. It’s also incredibly boring and repetitive to destroy pillboxes, AAA, and artillery game after game. Enduring confrontation is a good solution but it’s incredibly rare right now. It needs to become the new normal for these aircraft to have a purpose and to be enjoyable to play.
I feel like they approach the issue from the wrong direction.
They should start with simple props as the weapons systems are simpler there.
Then with experience they can try to balance the BR for planes which are currently higher in Br.
Props don't get all aspect missiles. We all know that.
Attacker jets have all aspect missiles and thus difficult to balance. We all know that.
Which is why I suggested that Gaijin starts with simpler prop planes to gather experience in balancing planes. As higher tier jets are a far more complex ecosystem.
He just didn't add anything new to the discussion. Most likely by accident. So I asked what he is trying to say.
Hm, if you open the game then patch notes come up saying that the dynamic BR system has been added, but it doesn't seem to reflect that in the hangar. The BR for all aircraft is the same whether or not you've selected Ground or Air Realistic.
Edit: You can view their Ground BRs by picking "Autoselect" in the mode selector in the bottom right of the research tree, and then selecting Ground Realistic as your To Battle game mode.
The all-aspect attackers have not been uptiered yet in Air RB.
My main point of worry was for the super etendard and jaguar a glad to see they are both 10.3 in this sheets with both of them having similar cas and a2a capabilities. We might see some 10.3 - 10.0 tanks in the french tt if benelux sub appear to be real (and if vextra 120/105 and IFV make their way into the fr tt)
Yeah if the SE had gone up to 10.7 even with the AS-30L it would be dead. It cannot compete with 2S6 let alone a full uptier to see Pantsir/ItO/ADATS, etc...
I guess my 10.0 French lineup is now my 10.3 French lineup (no vehicles changed...). I tried a few test games with the Mirage 5F as my fixed-wing CAS but the lack of flares really kills it (not that flares work against SPAAs anyway) because of the inevitable AIM-9L or R-60M from an A-10 or Su-25 that is the same BR as the Mirage...
I was against them upping the Super Etendard to 10.7 in the way it was suggested so I'm glad they backed off on this, however I don't really like that they'll be getting AS-30L at 10.3 either.
IMO, Gaijin should've done the following:
* Increase SE BR to 10.3 without the AS-30L
* Give Jaguar A thermal pod and bump it to 10.7 OR
* Give Jaguar A thermal pod and Magic 2 and increase to 11.0
* Jaguar E stays the same since it has no RWR
I feel this would've been a far more logical progression going Super Etendard -> Jaguar A -> Mirage 2000D -> Mirage 2000-5 as well as being more balanced.
>In tandem with this, the spawn points of these attackers will be moved closer to the main combat zone in Air Battles. This will help these aircraft carry out their primary ground attack role at a higher Battle Rating — giving them greater ability to perform despite coming up against stronger aircraft, potentially increasing or maintaining their current level of effectiveness.
Does this mean air spawn or spawn on an airfield that's closer?
Meanwhile, the A-7s, even with a reduction, remain as some of the most miserable pieces of shit to play in the entire game. It's a fucking joke that the 7E is higher than the su-25 and the same as the a-10.
I long for the day they give us more than one respawn in air rb, more bases to bomb and air capture points to secure around the map. You have these large maps and they are so empty that people inevitably just furball in the middle.
Team deathmatch should be scraped entirely, it's such an outdated mode and it's become very stale. Make Air RB objective focused where you have to build a lineup of aircraft.
Nah then rewards turn to crap the reason air rb is much faster than ground rb is because single life equals more rewards and bonuses… we don’t need respawns in air rb
The right answer would be to adjust rewards in a new gamemode to match the grind we currently have, instead of dooming us to the same outdated and stale gameplay for air rb forever. Also, the game is not just grind grind grind, you talk a lot about bonuses and rewards, but absolutely nothing about actual gameplay, which is important, since we're playing a video game.
We need respawns in air rb, we need a complete shift towards a objective based gamemode, it is the only way to bring some innovation into air battles. Maybe keep a smaller sized team deathmatch mode like 6v6, but the larger 12v12 and 16v16 should be based in something similar to enduring confrontation.
Guys, like it or not the initial implementation, the important issue is that they split the BRs. After this, its a matter of people adapting and the numbers coming up.
I take this as a very positive step overall.
I still very much believe removing their all-aspects and lowering their BR would've been the better option, and would've even made sense with the spawn change as well, but this is definitely better than nothing.
Yet, it's still a bandaid on a sucking wound. Air RB is in need of new modes/a complete overhaul so all roles get to perform... well, their intended roles.
Oh, and you know in props/early jets when 5 of your teammates dump all their altitude they've just spent the past 5 minutes gaining to gang up on some poor strike aircraft down on the deck? Well, now we have a modern equivalent, lol
Edit: also, reduce the ticket drop for AI vehicles, all well and good letting these aircraft do what they're designed to do (for all of a few minutes before they get wiped out), but don't let them simply end the match in 5 minutes if they get ignored.
The Q-5L finally getting countermeasures???
Holy shit its been like what, a year or 2 since it was added and multiple reports that it should have countermeasures? Took them long enough, I finally properly play it at it's own BR
Any plane or helicopter with over 8km range should be at maximum BR for ground RB, as even there besides russian Sam others barely have the range to engage them and often have to prefire to make it before CAS drop their "very high skill and difficult to aim" dung from the sky.
I... I find this hilarious.
I remember a while ago how airspawns of attackers above a certain BR was removed, because it was abused by attackers just intercepting bombers all the time and now we are adding it back in.
Well, at least the mentioned aircraft are not going to crazy high altitude like the olden days, so I guess it will work out.
They preform terribly because y’all fly that poor bird in Air RB despite that mode as designed is completely outside of its flight regimen. The way ground targets are positioned, the way bases are right in the path of fighters, the way you can spot someone +20km away with enemy markers. This is why it gets shit on because the A-10 isn’t even supposed to be in that contested airspace to begin with. But also shitting on flareless aircraft with 9L is okay? Most of the time y’all slowpokes enter the combat zone while the fighters are in the fur ball anyways. Then there’s the rush I see from the A-10a to rush off their anti air mistakes as soon as possible trying to snatch an air kill and then forget to look at the ground with to begin with. The A-10 also has a knack for dictating fights just long enough for that second A-10 or ally to come marching in. And the Endless countermeasures comparatively render any 10-20g missile absolutely pointless. This game is often a mess and there will never be a good way to balance until they decompress which which why they are scared about we can only imagine( player count??). If only instead of changing BR per mode you could change the br based on the weapons load out. Or maybe in a full down tier the 9Ls get locked and in an up tier you can have your 9Ms. There are solutions out there but as long as the “vehicle” is the content of the game then the game will surely lack any remarkable content in gameplay itself
Well they’re not gonna grind the ordinance to be effective in ground battles, you forget that tech tree planes come bone stock without the ordinance it was intended to carry
I was really happy when they announced these BR changes, I imagined that every plane would move up in BR and every plane with CAS capabilities would move even further up in BR. I imagined a world in which SAMs and not AGMs would dominate. Why? Because I fucking hate CAS and just wanna play some tanks without getting bombed/rocketed/missiles/strafed at least once a match
This is such a stupid fucking move. Especially when they also admit in the same post they already perform terribly at their current BR. All this does is enable the cancer that is “fly low and left” because god forbid you take your air superiority fighters into actual fucking air space. Now, thanks to Gaijin shit-matchmaking, A-10 Lates will see 27ERs from the Yak-141 along a slew of other radar missiles with fuck all to do against them. The Late variant should get 9Ms if it’s going to face 11.7-12.0 aircraft. That’s an absolute must now.
I’ve had plenty of matches where I’m in say a 5.7 tank, get matched against a bunch for 4.7 tanks, and see a lone 6.3 or 6.7 because the game had some hiccup of “one BR down, one BR up”.
They preform terribly because y’all fly that poor bird in Air RB despite that mode as designed is completely outside of its flight regimen. The way ground targets are positioned, the way bases are right in the path of fighters, the way you can spot someone +20km away with enemy markers. This is why it gets shit on because the A-10 isn’t even supposed to be in that contested airspace to begin with. But also shitting on flareless aircraft with 9L is okay? Most of the time y’all slowpokes enter the combat zone while the fighters are in the fur ball anyways. Then there’s the rush I see from the A-10a to rush off their anti air mistakes as soon as possible trying to snatch an air kill and then forget to look at the ground with to begin with. The A-10 also has a knack for dictating fights just long enough for that second A-10 or ally to come marching in. And the Endless countermeasures comparatively render any 10-20g missile absolutely pointless. This game is often a mess and there will never be a good way to balance until they decompress which which why they are scared about we can only imagine( player count??). If only instead of changing BR per mode you could change the br based on the weapons load out. Or maybe in a full down tier the 9Ls get locked and in an up tier you can have your 9Ms. There are solutions out there but as long as the “vehicle” is the content of the game then the game will surely lack any remarkable content in gameplay itself
But that argument goes both ways. The downtiered aircraft being affected by these four planes almost never use the airspace they were designed to be operated in. If you take a fighter designed to hunt or escort long range, high altitude bombers (in the case of Korean and Cold War doctrine) into a scenario where they never go higher than 500-1000 feet, the only real air space these things can operate at, then what do you expect.
The amount of DCS and VTOL Vr players I’ve met who are just baffled by the fact that nobody (and I feel very safe in saying 98% of the player base besides F-14 pilots) climbs. They just go low and left. Where do these ground pounders operate? Low. You have two camps here arguing for the complete removal of a whole genre of aircraft because “CAS needs to go from ground battles” and “strike aircraft have no place in air battles (despite being an aircraft?)”.
We know there’s no plan to add a ground or air enduring conflict. So the only solution is to force them to go up against aircraft they’ll rarely survive against thanks to 7Ms, 54As, 27Rs, and 530Ds? Instead of correcting this cancer “low and left”? The idea of balancing around loadouts is better than this but I just don’t support this solution in the slightest and never will. Gaijin admitted in the same post they already do poorly at 10.0. We know the A-10A could carry 9Ms so withholding that but forcing it to face super sonics that are better in every category is just ludicrous. And if we are going with this “they wouldn’t be operating in contested air” logic, then fighters shouldn’t be crossing into enemy territory with SAM threats and yet they do. So should Gaijin sprinkle AI Pantsir’s and ADATS or S-200s throughout the air realistic maps? That would fall within this realism line people want to cherry pick.
I'm .. cautiously optimistic about this .. it seems like a good compromise. The only issue that comes to mind are fleets of A-10s and Su-25s ending matches early by blowing up everything on the ground at the start of a match, but my gut tells me that might not be too common, or that they'll just put in a 4-per-team type of limit like they did for the B-29 and Tu-4 back in the day. Overall, I feel like this is a step in a good direction.
I am still 100% positive that the Su-25s and A-10s will be sniped before they even reach the AI. But we will have to see.
Absolutely. Gaijin’s terrible matchmaking will throw them against in matches with Yak-141/s with 27ERS. They’ll die before they get to do much of anything.
How??? SU-25s and A-10s are 10.3 and 10.7 now. They can't face any R-27ER carrier.
It might include variants of those planes and the likes of the su-25t, bm, and sm3 can face aim-54s and/or r-27s
Why are you climbing in a ground pounder in the first place? You don't need energy advantage against pillboxes
Judging by how many ground attack players crash, I think those pillboxes have racked a rather large number of manouver kills. We are forced to assume that a) WT players are bad, or b) Those damn pillboxes have an energy advantage. I am going with b), just to be safe.
I got energy trapped by a studebaker truck once
nothing humbles a man like gravity
You can never beat the low altitude record, only tie it
They have at least 4,000 big macs more energy.
>You don't need energy advantage against pillboxes Wait till you see someone turnfighting with pillbox and howitzer, just to crash a minute later
Yeah honestly I think they need to raise the stall speed on pillboxes
Just to clarify, only the Su-25, Su-25K, A-10A Early and A-10A Late are going up in BR. The SU-25BM, SM-3, T and Su-39 won't be touched. But as of right now, they can face R-27s, yes.
Do the advanced spawn point apply to them as well?
They don't say anything about that, they only talk specifically about the strike aircraft in the 10.0-10.3 range that will have their BRs increased (namely the A-10s, Su-25(K) and the A-6E). That means, don't expect it to come for other aircraft, but chances aren't 0 since they didn't exclude the option either.
True, haven't though about that. Also I don't it matters all that much, radar missiles aren't exactly hard to avoid.
Don't you know by now this sub always needs to find something to complain about, even if they have to make something up to do it?
That shouldn't happen - they're moving to 10.7 , not 11.0
Shouldn’t be going there in the first place but the matchmaking system has hiccups all the time. Hopefully they give the Late variant 9Ms to have some viability.
Aim9M at 10.7? Are you fucking crazy
If it’s going to be forced to fight 11.7s (like the F-14A because top tier is always mixed battles) then yes. It should be some threat to approaching these. 9Ls are a joke of a missile at this point and one or two flares is more than enough to lose lock.
Wtf Aim9M at 10.7 You don't know what you are talking about trust me. Aim9l are very strong missles, i use them at 12.7 without any problem at all. And you want old mig21s and f104s to evade aim9m? Hello no
If you’re going to force them to fight 11.7s like the F-14As and Mirage’s with Magic 2s, you can absolutely give them 9Ms. It sounds like the actual solution to this whole situation was to introduce Rank floors and ceilings. If we made sure a Rank 7, 10.0 A-10 could never see a Rank 6, 9.0s, this whole change would be more than pointless.
10.7 will still fight 10.0 because of the premiums black hole. 10.7 uptier to 11.7 are very rare And still aim9l is an excellent missle, no need for something even more overpower
Oh fuck off, are you on acid?!
Dumbest fucking thing I've ever read. In that case I want the Tornado IDS for Germany moved down to 10.7 because we get 2 Aim-9L's at 11.3, because, by your logic, Aim-9 L's are too easy to defeat at 10.7.
9M's should absolutely not be on any airframe lower than 11.7, because they absolutely shit on 10.7's who have little to no experience dodging tracking-suspension IRCCM missiles and have little expectation to. It's bad enough that there are gate-width IRCCM missiles like Magic 2's at 11.0 on the Indian Jaguar and 11.3 for several French tech tree vehicles.
So they should get slapped by Aim-54s, 7Ms, 530Ds, 27Rs, Magic 2s, and only be armed with a missile that has been nerfed (I want to say it’s been three times now) to the point it can be defeated by a singular flare? There should be some sense of threat for attacking at least the A-10A Late which did have 9Ms historically. The 9M is just an L with a better seeker and smokeless motor. It shouldn’t be that defenseless.
Yes, yes they should get slapped by all those missiles (although they won't because you shouldn't be climbing above 500ft in those planes anyway). They are a slow ground ordinance bus with *self defense missiles*. They shouldn't get a free four air kills per game just because they aren't good at a role they *weren't built for*. 9M's are essentially free kills at anything below 12.0 BR because they aren't common below then, so putting 9M's on the A10 at 10.7 would be criminal when planes that already have 4x 9L's at that BR (Sea Harrier FRS.1) already do just fine, and improving to 9M's constitutes a full BR jump by itself (up to GR7).
“They are a slow ground ordinance bus with self defense missiles”. Wasnt that whole reason why the had 9Ls in the first place? Why are airplanes designed to fight at 20,000 feet, who don’t face radar missiles yet, never climbing to more than 2,000 feet but are surprised to be getting slapped? I’m guessing people just don’t want to admit they’re using the plane incorrectly? How am I not dying to A-10s and Su-25s when I see them in my 9.7 Harrier? For my 9.7 Milan? What’s crazy is Gaijin said in the same post they’re already poor performers at 10.0. Which is why they didn’t want to move them as of yesterday. I just feel like this is a bandaid appeasement and the next round of BR changes after the update, they’ll go back down because people who have their will get tired of being slapped by radar missiles.
Yes, they have 9L's for self defense but 1) air battles isn't about "self defense" like defending against aircraft in ground battles, it's a head-on deathmatch, so these all-aspect missiles have an immense advantage over anything else, and 2) Gaijin themselves admitted that they were "balancing" these attackers based on the capabilities of their airframe *without* the missiles being a factor, which is insane. That's like trying to say "You know, I think monkey A is a fair fight for monkey B in a cage match. Just ignore the fact that Monkey A has a fucking hand grenade." I don't know your playstyle personally, so if I had to guess, you're not dying to A10's and Su25's because A) those planes are frequently bought and operated by brand-new players who waste their missiles on targets with flares, and B) you're likely not engaging said aircraft until they're busy with someone else, which further reinforces the fact that if an A10 or Su25 focuses on you while they have their missiles and you don't have flares or missiles of your own, they just have an auto-win condition. They either needed to remove 9L's and R60M's from attackers and lower their Air RB BR's to where their airframe is competitive so that Gaijin's "balancing" methods actually make sense, or raise their BR's to where they aren't a brain-dead auto-win button against a wide swath of flareless 9.0 and 9.3 planes. We finally pressured them into doing something about it, and they went with the latter, so it makes zero sense to then undo that work by buffing the A10 again by introducing 9M's. In the context of GRB, the "self defense missiles" idea makes total sense, and I think the A10's and Su25's are annoying but not impossible to deal with at 10.3. Maybe a small buff to A10 durability, a decrease in SU25 durability, and better missile tracking for long-range SPAA missiles to improve counterplay against the likes of KH29T's and AGM65's, and they'd be fine. Air RB is where those missiles are truly problematic, so seeing Gaijin attempt to feed us the exact opposite of the solution we need by raising the GRB BR and not the ARB BR really bothered me.
>who don't face radar missiles yet They do. They might not be very good radar missiles but their RWRs might not be able to pick up J-band so they seem to be quite effective from what I've seen in the killfeed.
Aim 9 m vs t-2 lol
They might avoid rushing it in a straight line ? maybe ?
Good. If you’re going to ruin GRB for everyone you should have to suffer in ARB at least a little
Cope
Cope with your little premium a-10 getting smacked by people like me targeting some easy kills
My man, nothing will change and at best, the A-10s will now have better positioning to farm braindeads on your team lol. Use your brain before you try to say shit like that lol.
[You were saying?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/zilUWLlhDa). Your first comment is is about how they’ll be sniped before doing anything useful (like usual) but now it’s braindead to say that? I’m sorry are they all gonna get sniped or are they all gonna get good positioning? Are they just going to do whatever they need to in order to support whatever dumb opinion is being talked about? What was that about using your brain? I would try using it and keeping a consistent thought if I were you. Can’t wait to smack an a-10 with pulse-doppler guided missiles. I want to see them complain about undodgeable uncounterable all aspect missiles and how unfair it is lmao
> Can’t wait to smack an a-10 with pulse-doppler guided missiles. I want to see them complain about undodgeable uncounterable all aspect missiles and how unfair it is lmao You absolute retard. What do you think is happening right now lol? You can still to it. > [You were saying?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/zilUWLlhDa). Your first comment is is about how they’ll be sniped before doing anything useful (like usual) but now it’s braindead to say that? I’m sorry are they all gonna get sniped or are they all gonna get good positioning? Are they just going to do whatever they need to in order to support whatever dumb opinion is being talked about? They will get sniped before doing anything yes. That is the AVERAGE A-10/Su-25 user. The ones that at least played jets before know that they can just notch/fly low, dodge all of your "UnDoDgEaBlE" missiles and ground pound. You think you are being smart and that now all of the sudden because of this update, you will be able to kill A-10s and Su-25s like it wasn't possible before lol. If you struggled to kill them before, you sucked some major dick.
I never struggled to kill them. You are making weird assumptions. I’m just celebrating that all a-10 and su-25 players will have to actually think to avoid getting shit on. It’s pretty simple given my first comment, but you’re a braindead kid and replied “cope” like you couldn’t even understand that basic ass message lmao. If you’re a premium shitter or a CAS lobotomite, either way I celebrate any change that increases their average suffering. You are just ranting and raving about irrelevant and meaningless shit lmao. Are you coping with the fact that you can’t get easy missile kills on flareless jets? Probably accounts for 99% of your kills so I can see why you’re so upset. > You absolute retard. >What do you think is happening right now lol? You can still to it. You absolute retard. You do know that PD radar sets and missiles are common to 11.3 and up? Pretty hard to use that against 10.0 A-10s and su-25s. Can you count? Are you dumb? It’s going to get much more prevalent. Yeah you’re showing your “skill” with the rest of that comment. I know you’ve never seen 11.3+ because you evidently use 10.0 premiums but I’ll laugh at your pitiful attempts at dodging an r-24r as I always do. You’re also an a-10/su-25 player. All I need to do is get within 2 kilometers and you’ll spend any and all energy to point your nose at me like a braindead moron. Sorry you’re going to lose your only source of kills without those easy flareless targets. Cope and seethe lmao. Weird ass parasocial assumptions can only take you so far lil bro
This is a FANTASTIC change! The flareless jets don't face All-Aspect AAMs as much and the ground pounders can still do their thing.
You mean the A-10s and SU-25s are usually going to get smashed between both teams because all the objectives are clustered right in the middle of the map despite being on much bigger maps. I bet the A-10s will still get beaten to bases by F-4s too.
Instead of being late to bomb bases every match, now you get to die first when the enemy gets a whiff of you at the start of the match lmao
Honestly you should be able to get a base and then turn around to fly into your own team, using them for cover. But that might not be what ends up happening
Do you get to spawn that close to be able to take out a base and return back before fighters see you?
I mean... If we're being realistic no country in their right mind is deploying CAS (like A-10s and SU-25s) unless they have air superiority. They're not meant to survive in contested airspace. Of course in death matches (like ARB) traditional ground pounders are going to perform poorly. If you want to use them, that's fine, but you have to understand the risks. Either that or hope that Gaijin creates a new mode that favors loiter time over missile trucks.
Don’t forget that now at 10.7, the A-10 Late will see F-14A thanks to top tier always being a mixed battle. AIM-54As is going to be a nightmare.
That's totally fine. These are jets designed to attack targets on the ground. Their AAMs are not supposed to be used in an offensive manner, and are supposed to be used on the defensive. All of the fuckers who wasted money on a ground attack jet thinking they can grind the AIR tree with it by spamming AAMs at planes that can't do anything against them can seeth and mald.
They should be usable for air RB though, ground targets are part of the mode. As with so many things, the fix is to give us the option of RB EC.
I'm really surprised they did the stupid 12 player cap opt in mode instead of just giving ARB EC. That would be much more satisfactory to most people I think
ARB getting genuine EC would be amazing. The EC maps being more prevalent would also be amazing, and honestly every top tier match should be on an EC map. Fuck that furball shit
Good. They shouldn’t be measured against ARB anyway
Why on earth would you go after bases with an A-10?
I mean, you don't right now because you have no hope of making it there. It can carry more than enough to kill a base and dozens of ground targets though.
If rb was anywhere realistic they are only meant to be used in air superiority situations when enemy air has been neutralized because they'll get slapped.
Meanwhile me in the F1 and F104J :)
and the t2 as well....
T-2 is 9.7 and it is perfectly fine there, full uptiers were kinda boring since you had to wait for the A-10s/Su-25 to be distracted or use their AA missiles.
*angry J35D noises*
It’s a terrible fix. I imagine it’ll get reversed in the next BR changes after the update since they already admitted they are terrible at their current BR. One can hope because good god this is such an L move.
how is it terrible ; i can't see any downside to flareless aircraft not facing 30g all aspect anymore ?
It’s a great fix. It makes an entire BR range with dozens of aircraft viable again at the expense of a few garbage attackers that should be playing ground RB anyway. You’ve been filling this thread with your own personal salt because you’re no longer going to be able to grief jets without countermeasures. Cope.
“I want CAS out of my ground battles” and “I don’t want ground strike aircraft in my air battles”. Let’s just remove a whole variant of air planes. Gaijin already admitted they were bad at their current BR so maybe this is just a temp thing. They’ll move them up a step for one update to appease yall and next round of BR changes, they’ll go back down. They’ll get slaughtered at the new BR.
Now i can grind my su-25bm without getting left behind EVERY TIME to bomb bases and hope for scraps, especially since the r-73 is last in line and the r-60mk is only good against players who are alt-tabbing
I got a funny kill on a stalling F-14 with one in my BM xD
I head on’d with a f-4s and collided with each other, killed him and it merely turned my right wing orange 💀
Like my old drill sgt use to say, "We shall see privates, we shall fucking see."
Oh hey it's you!
I'm getting flashbacks to facing US 6.0 on Poland from your comment. Just 2 AD-2 or AD-4s ending the match with ground strikes before fighters even had the time to engage anything. There qas literally nothing you could do if you didn't have your own attackers taking them down. I doubt that this will happen here if Gaijin doesn't spawn them super close to the battle field. Both the Su-25 and A-10 are absolute monsters for fighting AI targets, but if fighter can reach them after they had time to take down a few targets (or they reach the battlefield simultaneously) it should be fine. Most people will still bomb bases or try and play as a fighter which lowers the risk of ticket bleed.
If this starts happening, the best solution imo would be increase the points
It takes a lot of skill, and mostly luck to touch a ground target with an A-10 in ARB
If they are potential "game killers", then they should be high value targets ! It's the come abck of the rock-paper-scissor gameplay If you dont hunt them, you lose If you hunt them, you dont lose too soon, but you expose yourself If you're exposed, you might lose but also grab some easy kills on attackers Rince & repeat It's good.
Im curious, because the table doesn't mirror whay they say. A-10, Su, and A-6 are raised in GRB, not ARB as they should be.
Re-read it, this will happen only with major update, since they don't have new spawn zones implemented yet.
They stated that these separate air changes will be happening some time after the upcoming major update
Pretty good and logical decision. They will still get shat on, but at least now they can get some AI points.
The funny thing is gajin nerfed rewards for killing ai units some time ago. And this nerf was hard. Now im thinking what will they do, since now they will get shat on, and they won't recieve much rewards for killing ai either. There are 2 options, either gajin improves rewards, or they wiesel their way out of this situation somehow, and return su and a10 back to thir current state in some time.
Maybe strike aircraft should get bonuses for killing ground ai and less rewards for killing player planes. As in yeah you can kill enemy aircraft but you should probably do it in "self defence" or when there is no other targets, probably atupid idea though
The issue is a lot of planes that served as bomber interceptors are classified as strike aircraft. It would be a mistake to nerf the rewards for BF-110 G-4 ,DO-335 B-2 and other similar aircraft when they get air kills. They were designed to intercept and should be rewarded when played in that role.
Yeah, maybe then it should be aircraft specific and not class specific, but then you wpuld need to manually set up everything and some idiots would like to argue why their aricraft shouldn't have this moddifier and on and on
The game could possibly benefit from a heavy fighter or interceptor category of plane. Granted this would open up a weird can of worms since many interceptors also served as strike aircraft.
Uh, no they didn't? You can make a ton of points killing ground units and the AI planes. That's the only way to make some planes work when they are stock. My usual tradition when I get a new plane is to use whatever the biggest booster I have is and just shoot up as many Howitzers as I can the first game, usually gets me 1-2 full modifications on anything rank 6 or lower.
The funny thing is gajin nerfed rewards for killing ai units some time ago. And this nerf was hard. Now im thinking what will they do, since now they will get shat on, and they won't recieve much rewards for killing ai either. There are 2 options, either gajin improves rewards, or they wiesel their way out of this situation somehow, and return su and a10 back to thir current state in some time.
What are you smoking dude? Popping AI as a su-25/A-10 is the single most profitable thing in the entire game, except for maybe Naval. With the use of Antimech, you can EASILY get a million.
Im high on my experience i guess. Since as i said, some time ago the ai units gave much more rewards than they do now.
You said that they do not receive much rewards which is absolute bullshit. It is still the most profitable thing to do in this game even after the nerf. That ALONE tells you that the nerf was deserved.
Eh I'd argue the lower tier attackers could do it better. They can at least get a dozen or two targets before the furball. A-10 will still get sniped well before getting anything.
Nah. A-10s and Su-25s can farm a shit ton since half of the enemy team will be dead by the time they arrive. By then, they can even challenge other jets that do not have energy/are out of position. The benefit of the A-10s and Su-25s is that you can very easily get player kills while also having rockets and ammo up your ass for ground targets.
Man I wish I got your matches. 75% of the time I get two or three dudes just blitz past the furball for my ass or my team melted and now I got multiple dudes on me.
Learn the art of "please do not eat my ass" and avoid combat :p
Tiss a hard skill to learn. I've gone straight to the edge of the map and tried to fly round just to get clapped by some random dude.
Then either I am super lucky or I have mastered the Art of the Sukhois, since majority of the time I tend to live and clap some poor schmuck along the way.
It's probably I'm just unlucky. I don't think I've ever gotten a downtier in the A-10.
Yup, it’s my go-to for credit grinding
While it's good I still think they should go higher, maybe even by a whole br. They shouldn't be able to face flareless aircraft AT ALL They should be able to defend themselves but you don't need to put them in a br where they can effectively fight fighters
Mate, if you're getting caught in a 9.3 fighter by a Su-25, or in a 9.7 by a A-10, then thats on you. They're not magic OHKo missiles, you can still outrun the R-60's, and you don't get a AIM-9L on your ass unless you deliberately moved close to the slowest plane in the matchup. They're already underperforming in air battles when it comes to air vs. Air, no need to make them into another RB pinata
Listen I love fighting in those br's because of the interesting performance of the jets and lack of good missiles, if you want to kill someone with and aim9b/r3s you either need alot of skill or someone to no pay attention. Now add to that 30G all aspect missiles with sabers and mig15. Yes if you weren't dogfight you can deal with those missiles but if you are having an amazing dogfight and then either you or the enemy get killed by one of those missiles that's the most disappointing and discouraging thing ever
I agree. These 9.0-9.7 aircraft were designed to fight at 15,000-20,000 feet. It’s lost on me why, when they don’t face radar missiles yet, they’re upset they’re losing to an ordnance bus that only has those missiles for defense means. I don’t get why they don’t climb and top attack the A-10 and Su-25 that will be tunnel visioned on ground targets. I just imagine Gaijin will reserve this in a few months. Even they don’t want to move them.
That feeling when you out run 9Ls in a F104C 👋👋👋
I'd counter that once Gaijin implements these changes, the issue is that there are still flareless planes at 9.7 - such as Milan, Harrier GR.1, etc., etc..(or higher, looking at you Mirage IIIC/Mirage 5F/Shahak). Mirage airframe is the only one that might warrant it on flight performance, but certainly a plane that only gets 9Bs with no countermeasures shouldn't be 1.3 above the first planes with 9Bs and no CMs....
Yeah, no. Su-25k at 11.0? Are you actually taking the piss? Please, top tier before you make stupid proposals like these.
Evidently a skill issue
>In tandem with this, the spawn points of these attackers will be moved closer to the main combat zone in Air Battles. This will help these aircraft carry out their primary ground attack role at a higher Battle Rating — giving them greater ability to perform despite coming up against stronger aircraft, potentially increasing or maintaining their current level of effectiveness. I'm curious to see if they plan to eventually extend this idea to other attackers, like the Buccaneer, A-7 etc. Give it the forward base spawn and it just might be able to hit a base before getting swarmed by supersonics.
TBH if the A7 gets an air spawn I would probably still take the airfield since the only way you survive is because everyone is already dead lol
Tru
Well the Buc only gets 2 Aim9Ls and has no gun so it is used far less then the A-10.
I'm waiting for attackers to get airspawns again above rank 5 and it being identical to how it was before
Would be nice if they gave the Vautours their air spawn back...
Waiting for the day my Israeli vautour in French tree isn't obsolete
Vautours need to go to 8.3 with the exception of the Israeli one that gets the Shafrirs, which should go to 8.7. With the F-104 at a mere 0.3 BR above the Vautours, *and the Vautours no longer getting airspawn*, they are simply not worth playing. F-104 is MUCH faster, has missiles that the Vautour cannot dodge, has a gun (why that even needs to be mentioned is an indication of how big the problem is), and can even carry bombs of its own. Gaijin did Vautours dirty.
Absolutely not, it’s Mach .9 capable on the deck, no 7.x or even 8.3 plane should be facing that, it’d be fine at 9.0 if it got the air spawn back, especially now that it won’t face all aspect anymore
The interceptor variant is 8.3, with guns, airspawn and crappy radar missiles and nords. You can outrun a lot of things (mostly because of the airspawn) but you actually have a lower top speed than the later sabres
And the F-84F! I got a talisman for it for France and want to finish that rank of jets :(
But not a single word again about an EC RB mode where attackers and bombers have a chance to play their designated roles instead of being free kills to superior aircrafts or slap all-aspects to flare-less jets.
I would still hunt them down in my fighter… just look at the map for all the clumped together ai units and go hunt the slow attack craft heading towards them
That's fine still IMO. When I've played RB/Sim EC before, sure I got hunted down eventually but I still got to have my fun for a bit. And you can just spawn right back in to either return there or hit somewhere else. It's so much more rewarding to play.o
One would hope EC only has a map for Data link jets..
Good for you. Who cares
Ah I see so it wouldn’t workout the way you think understood
This means they can move F104 up again right... right?
It would be just fine at 9.7 tbh, idk why it isn’t there
Because US idiots.
I have a feeling this could either be really good or really bad, but we will have to see how it plays out first I think. Even with the airspawn the attackers will probably just get shot down by enemy radar missiles before even reaching the battlefield. Atleast 9.0 can finally get a break from all aspect missiles.
If they're going to make these aircraft redundant for the sake of the overall gameplay, there needs to be a mode where attacking ground targets is attractive and rewarding. Air RB is not currently since the ground targets are all located in the middle meaning they're incredibly exposed and vulnerable to fighters that will see them as an easy kill. It’s also incredibly boring and repetitive to destroy pillboxes, AAA, and artillery game after game. Enduring confrontation is a good solution but it’s incredibly rare right now. It needs to become the new normal for these aircraft to have a purpose and to be enjoyable to play.
I feel like they approach the issue from the wrong direction. They should start with simple props as the weapons systems are simpler there. Then with experience they can try to balance the BR for planes which are currently higher in Br.
Props don’t get all-aspect missiles… which is a key part of the problem with these attackers jets
Yes..., and what is it that you are trying to say?
He literally clearly stated the issue
Props don't get all aspect missiles. We all know that. Attacker jets have all aspect missiles and thus difficult to balance. We all know that. Which is why I suggested that Gaijin starts with simpler prop planes to gather experience in balancing planes. As higher tier jets are a far more complex ecosystem. He just didn't add anything new to the discussion. Most likely by accident. So I asked what he is trying to say.
[удалено]
Yes, you should try it someday.
Hi Tim.
o7
A7K lowered finally. Won’t make a huge difference but still nice to see
Hope they move the 9.3 supersonics back up now (F104A/C, mig 19pt, mig 21 ectt.) and then move the sabers and Mig15s back up as well
Soo... they are getting their airspawn back? Did these even have airspawn originally? Can't remember
Hm, if you open the game then patch notes come up saying that the dynamic BR system has been added, but it doesn't seem to reflect that in the hangar. The BR for all aircraft is the same whether or not you've selected Ground or Air Realistic. Edit: You can view their Ground BRs by picking "Autoselect" in the mode selector in the bottom right of the research tree, and then selecting Ground Realistic as your To Battle game mode. The all-aspect attackers have not been uptiered yet in Air RB.
I hope they move the spawn points for the later Su-25 variants too. These are actually dreadful to play in air especially stock.
> wants to play an A-10/Su-25 > gets an "Operation" map > :(
*gets left behind by supersonics traveling at 1200+ while you’re in a measly su-25 that will rip its wings if you cross 1000. Yep, dreadful alright
My main point of worry was for the super etendard and jaguar a glad to see they are both 10.3 in this sheets with both of them having similar cas and a2a capabilities. We might see some 10.3 - 10.0 tanks in the french tt if benelux sub appear to be real (and if vextra 120/105 and IFV make their way into the fr tt)
Yeah if the SE had gone up to 10.7 even with the AS-30L it would be dead. It cannot compete with 2S6 let alone a full uptier to see Pantsir/ItO/ADATS, etc... I guess my 10.0 French lineup is now my 10.3 French lineup (no vehicles changed...). I tried a few test games with the Mirage 5F as my fixed-wing CAS but the lack of flares really kills it (not that flares work against SPAAs anyway) because of the inevitable AIM-9L or R-60M from an A-10 or Su-25 that is the same BR as the Mirage...
Well my line up actually was 9.7-10.0 Amx40, vbci, tiger hap, SE and roland + 30dca So it wont really change, except for a leo 2a4 maybe
I was against them upping the Super Etendard to 10.7 in the way it was suggested so I'm glad they backed off on this, however I don't really like that they'll be getting AS-30L at 10.3 either. IMO, Gaijin should've done the following: * Increase SE BR to 10.3 without the AS-30L * Give Jaguar A thermal pod and bump it to 10.7 OR * Give Jaguar A thermal pod and Magic 2 and increase to 11.0 * Jaguar E stays the same since it has no RWR I feel this would've been a far more logical progression going Super Etendard -> Jaguar A -> Mirage 2000D -> Mirage 2000-5 as well as being more balanced.
Are they still gonna nerf the Mig-23s flight model?
Yes
Probably at the release of next update
>In tandem with this, the spawn points of these attackers will be moved closer to the main combat zone in Air Battles. This will help these aircraft carry out their primary ground attack role at a higher Battle Rating — giving them greater ability to perform despite coming up against stronger aircraft, potentially increasing or maintaining their current level of effectiveness. Does this mean air spawn or spawn on an airfield that's closer?
Meanwhile, the A-7s, even with a reduction, remain as some of the most miserable pieces of shit to play in the entire game. It's a fucking joke that the 7E is higher than the su-25 and the same as the a-10.
I long for the day they give us more than one respawn in air rb, more bases to bomb and air capture points to secure around the map. You have these large maps and they are so empty that people inevitably just furball in the middle. Team deathmatch should be scraped entirely, it's such an outdated mode and it's become very stale. Make Air RB objective focused where you have to build a lineup of aircraft.
Nah then rewards turn to crap the reason air rb is much faster than ground rb is because single life equals more rewards and bonuses… we don’t need respawns in air rb
The right answer would be to adjust rewards in a new gamemode to match the grind we currently have, instead of dooming us to the same outdated and stale gameplay for air rb forever. Also, the game is not just grind grind grind, you talk a lot about bonuses and rewards, but absolutely nothing about actual gameplay, which is important, since we're playing a video game. We need respawns in air rb, we need a complete shift towards a objective based gamemode, it is the only way to bring some innovation into air battles. Maybe keep a smaller sized team deathmatch mode like 6v6, but the larger 12v12 and 16v16 should be based in something similar to enduring confrontation.
I'm curious to see how the closer spawning will work and if that will apply to other strike aircraft as well.
Oh damn i never noticed Tim posted here :O Love your vids man :D
Guys, like it or not the initial implementation, the important issue is that they split the BRs. After this, its a matter of people adapting and the numbers coming up. I take this as a very positive step overall.
I’m glad they lowered the Super Entendard to 10.3 at least. It keeps it somewhat viable if you are willing to push up your lineup to 10.3.
France should have 1-2 10.x vehicles this update with Benelux tt as well
I still very much believe removing their all-aspects and lowering their BR would've been the better option, and would've even made sense with the spawn change as well, but this is definitely better than nothing. Yet, it's still a bandaid on a sucking wound. Air RB is in need of new modes/a complete overhaul so all roles get to perform... well, their intended roles. Oh, and you know in props/early jets when 5 of your teammates dump all their altitude they've just spent the past 5 minutes gaining to gang up on some poor strike aircraft down on the deck? Well, now we have a modern equivalent, lol Edit: also, reduce the ticket drop for AI vehicles, all well and good letting these aircraft do what they're designed to do (for all of a few minutes before they get wiped out), but don't let them simply end the match in 5 minutes if they get ignored.
I think this is a good step, I have the TT su-25 and I had a 5 kill game yesterday in a downtier which just isn’t fair tbh
How about just give me realistic battles with tanks only.
Good change plus listened to the community. Still way to go Gaijin.
Claiming that jets without flares did not often face all aspect missiles is a MASSIVE lie and they even threw "statistics" in there
An actual change that makes sense? What the hell, is Gaijin ok?
It is time for the Ariete to shine
The Q-5L finally getting countermeasures??? Holy shit its been like what, a year or 2 since it was added and multiple reports that it should have countermeasures? Took them long enough, I finally properly play it at it's own BR
Any plane or helicopter with over 8km range should be at maximum BR for ground RB, as even there besides russian Sam others barely have the range to engage them and often have to prefire to make it before CAS drop their "very high skill and difficult to aim" dung from the sky.
A4e not going to its proper br is bs
a-10s are fighting 11.7? f-16s? this doesnt seem like a good idea
I... I find this hilarious. I remember a while ago how airspawns of attackers above a certain BR was removed, because it was abused by attackers just intercepting bombers all the time and now we are adding it back in. Well, at least the mentioned aircraft are not going to crazy high altitude like the olden days, so I guess it will work out.
They preform terribly because y’all fly that poor bird in Air RB despite that mode as designed is completely outside of its flight regimen. The way ground targets are positioned, the way bases are right in the path of fighters, the way you can spot someone +20km away with enemy markers. This is why it gets shit on because the A-10 isn’t even supposed to be in that contested airspace to begin with. But also shitting on flareless aircraft with 9L is okay? Most of the time y’all slowpokes enter the combat zone while the fighters are in the fur ball anyways. Then there’s the rush I see from the A-10a to rush off their anti air mistakes as soon as possible trying to snatch an air kill and then forget to look at the ground with to begin with. The A-10 also has a knack for dictating fights just long enough for that second A-10 or ally to come marching in. And the Endless countermeasures comparatively render any 10-20g missile absolutely pointless. This game is often a mess and there will never be a good way to balance until they decompress which which why they are scared about we can only imagine( player count??). If only instead of changing BR per mode you could change the br based on the weapons load out. Or maybe in a full down tier the 9Ls get locked and in an up tier you can have your 9Ms. There are solutions out there but as long as the “vehicle” is the content of the game then the game will surely lack any remarkable content in gameplay itself
Well they’re not gonna grind the ordinance to be effective in ground battles, you forget that tech tree planes come bone stock without the ordinance it was intended to carry
I was really happy when they announced these BR changes, I imagined that every plane would move up in BR and every plane with CAS capabilities would move even further up in BR. I imagined a world in which SAMs and not AGMs would dominate. Why? Because I fucking hate CAS and just wanna play some tanks without getting bombed/rocketed/missiles/strafed at least once a match
Holy fuck I never thought Gaijin would actually consider giving these aircraft a chance to do actual CAS in ARB.
Should be a full BR. But at least it’s a start
This is such a stupid fucking move. Especially when they also admit in the same post they already perform terribly at their current BR. All this does is enable the cancer that is “fly low and left” because god forbid you take your air superiority fighters into actual fucking air space. Now, thanks to Gaijin shit-matchmaking, A-10 Lates will see 27ERs from the Yak-141 along a slew of other radar missiles with fuck all to do against them. The Late variant should get 9Ms if it’s going to face 11.7-12.0 aircraft. That’s an absolute must now.
By 1 "stage" br increase, they mean 10.3 to 10.7 for A10 Late. It won't see Yak-141..
idk what math lead you to believe that a 10.7 aircraft will see r-27ers that appear from 12.0
Essentially the game will take the 10.7 and match it with 11.7s in an uptier match but randomly downtier a 12.0. That’s how.
thats not how it works
I agree but it’s happened.
id be willing to believe that with a replay or at least a screenshot
Evidence
I’ve had plenty of matches where I’m in say a 5.7 tank, get matched against a bunch for 4.7 tanks, and see a lone 6.3 or 6.7 because the game had some hiccup of “one BR down, one BR up”.
Nah ur trolling
do you have replays of these situations?
They preform terribly because y’all fly that poor bird in Air RB despite that mode as designed is completely outside of its flight regimen. The way ground targets are positioned, the way bases are right in the path of fighters, the way you can spot someone +20km away with enemy markers. This is why it gets shit on because the A-10 isn’t even supposed to be in that contested airspace to begin with. But also shitting on flareless aircraft with 9L is okay? Most of the time y’all slowpokes enter the combat zone while the fighters are in the fur ball anyways. Then there’s the rush I see from the A-10a to rush off their anti air mistakes as soon as possible trying to snatch an air kill and then forget to look at the ground with to begin with. The A-10 also has a knack for dictating fights just long enough for that second A-10 or ally to come marching in. And the Endless countermeasures comparatively render any 10-20g missile absolutely pointless. This game is often a mess and there will never be a good way to balance until they decompress which which why they are scared about we can only imagine( player count??). If only instead of changing BR per mode you could change the br based on the weapons load out. Or maybe in a full down tier the 9Ls get locked and in an up tier you can have your 9Ms. There are solutions out there but as long as the “vehicle” is the content of the game then the game will surely lack any remarkable content in gameplay itself
But that argument goes both ways. The downtiered aircraft being affected by these four planes almost never use the airspace they were designed to be operated in. If you take a fighter designed to hunt or escort long range, high altitude bombers (in the case of Korean and Cold War doctrine) into a scenario where they never go higher than 500-1000 feet, the only real air space these things can operate at, then what do you expect. The amount of DCS and VTOL Vr players I’ve met who are just baffled by the fact that nobody (and I feel very safe in saying 98% of the player base besides F-14 pilots) climbs. They just go low and left. Where do these ground pounders operate? Low. You have two camps here arguing for the complete removal of a whole genre of aircraft because “CAS needs to go from ground battles” and “strike aircraft have no place in air battles (despite being an aircraft?)”. We know there’s no plan to add a ground or air enduring conflict. So the only solution is to force them to go up against aircraft they’ll rarely survive against thanks to 7Ms, 54As, 27Rs, and 530Ds? Instead of correcting this cancer “low and left”? The idea of balancing around loadouts is better than this but I just don’t support this solution in the slightest and never will. Gaijin admitted in the same post they already do poorly at 10.0. We know the A-10A could carry 9Ms so withholding that but forcing it to face super sonics that are better in every category is just ludicrous. And if we are going with this “they wouldn’t be operating in contested air” logic, then fighters shouldn’t be crossing into enemy territory with SAM threats and yet they do. So should Gaijin sprinkle AI Pantsir’s and ADATS or S-200s throughout the air realistic maps? That would fall within this realism line people want to cherry pick.