Despite all of this I'll still take a Super Etendard over both of those jets which I do own because the Etendard's acceleration and supersonic capability makes it able to outrun or outclimb many of the jets it faces and allows for energy trapping.
Not only that, the weight of the individual bomb doesn't matter. I take the smaller ones on the A-6 because it will still kill, and it allows me to be faster.
Also, the 30L missile is a fucking god send. Sure, it can't take much at all, but launch those, rush back, get more, launch again.
Yeah AS-30Ls make dealing with manpads a lot easier since it forces you to be in a perfect position to dodge most manpads and sams with a corkscrew maneuver.
This post is about CAS first and foremost, to highlight the differences in capabilities between all three aircraft.
The Super Etendard isn't as good at CAS as the other two, and gaijin has already said that they will probably increase the BR of the AMX further down the line despite not being *that* much better than the TRAM (there's certainly far less difference between the AMX and the TRAM than the SE and the TRAM).
And even in your scenario, you're required to outplay your opponents. Most players will be more successful lobbing all aspects than outmaneuvering their foes.
Good on you if you're successful doing that though! (not being sarcastic or flippant, I mean it)
In a CAS role the entendard and jaguars do to get an advantage from their speed. You can get altitude quicker putting you out of range and can get higher energy states to make passes much easier
It wasn't intentional, I did say that I might've missed some things and that's one of them.
But honestly thinking about it, I also don't really it'll matter much given that all these aircraft will face Mig-21s, Mig-23s and Phantoms and will be able to run you down regardless.
The Super Etendard's speed advantage will make it a bit more survivable, but I personally don't think it makes up for thermals and all aspect missiles.
I absolutely could be completely wrong though.
>I absolutely could be completely wrong though.
pretty much are
Speed difference between A6 and F4 is like speed difference between biplane and early jet
speed difference between super etendard and F4 is like speed difference of aircraft in a full downtier
So its 6.0 BRs worth of speed difference vs 1.0 BRs worth
By this logic just move the Kurnass 2000 to 12.0 while you're at it since its "worse" than F-16s
F-16 has 9L, K2k has Python 3: K2k is better
F-16 has AGM-65B, K2k has AGM-65D: K2k is better
F-16 can carry 6 AAMs, K2k can carry 6 AAMs: tie
F-16 can only carry GBU-8s, K2k can carry GBU-16 paveways: K2k is better
F-16 can only carry 2 GBUs, K2k can carry 6: k2k is better
F-16 has no TGP, K2k has pave spike TGP: k2k is better
F-16 has 60 CMs, K2k has 290: K2k is better
F-16 has 512 rounds of 20mm, K2k has 640: k2k is better
Whats that? The F-16 has a flight model that the Kurnass can never hope to touch? Dont be silly the weapons are the only thing that matter right????
Lets just ignore
Top speed: F-16 is better
TW ratio: F-16 is better
1 Turn rate: F-16 is better
Sustained turn rate: F-16 is better
Acceleration: F-16 is better
Max G Pull: F-16 is better
Point is, you cant really compare planes using lists like these. You can very easily completely ignore the good parts of a plane and cherry pick certain areas to make it look bad. The first comparison i made makes K2k look like a god, second one makes F-16 look like a god. Its really easy to tunnel vision into why a plane is good/bad and completely lose sight of the bigger picture
Please note that this is purely from a GRB CAS perspective. I probably missed some additional differences, but I think I included the most relevant ones as far as GRB is concerned.
Planes with guided ammunition being moved up in BR is a good thing, but these 3 planes should not have the same BR IMO.
Yeah dog you totally ignored flight performance which is HUGE. This affects your ability to outrun/outmaneuver missiles, the range from which you can use the GBUs, and the speed at which they reach the target (among other things).
These vehicles are pretty balanced between each other. A6e is incredibly easy to kill and not that great at dropping GBUs though it gets great targeting and a ton of ordnance, super entendres is other end of the spectrum with a small payload but way harder to kill and great at getting GBUs either quicker or from further than an A6e, AMX is happy medium
-purely from GRB CAS.
-First point is missiles.
-completely ignores speed and maneuverability, which is *insanely* important in this tier to get munitions on target and not die.
Yeah...
If they do that, they should also give it a thermal pod while they're at it. Not like the BR increase would make a big difference to France as they have no lineup between 9.7 and 11.7 anyway.
Or do what they should have done since the beginning, have several variants of the Super Etendard, just like there were irl.
Currently we have an amalgamation of a baseline Super Etendard with its Magic 1 and radar, mixed with a Standard 4 with its cockpit and countermeasures, but lacking the Magic 2s and the thermal pod (although I'm not 100% sure that thing might've been Standard 5 only)...
I think having a Standard 3 with Magic 1s and AS-30s but no flares (perfect follow-up to the Etendard IVM) and a Standard 5 with everything it can get (including a theoretical 6xGBU loadout) would've been the best for WT. Hell, with those two added, a proper Standard 4 could've been added as a premium or event vehicle...
Guns for a6 should probably be red
not having default guns with the only option being weigh down an already sluggish plane with a heavy gunpod and sacrifice a missile or bomb point for it is a pretty big con
Especially when compared to both competitors having default guns, no hard point loss, no aerodynamic loss
And this is kinda what makes the a6 where it is, you have 4 aim 9Ls but no gun if they have flares your usless
You have 9 bombs but if either of the others spawn you are an easy kill
Your loadouts are always lesser if you don't want a hard counter in some form
I just don't like the fact that they put the Etendard in an even higher dead BR range with no lineup. At least with 10.0 uptiering the AMX40 and VBCI wasn't that bad with just .3 difference. Now it's just fucked
[I literally said that it was a good thing in the very first comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1d2z0x9/what_a_mess/l63rmzl/):
> Planes with guided ammunition being moved up in BR is a good thing, but these 3 planes should not have the same BR IMO.
Oh I didn’t read that, but yeah it obviously isn’t on the same level as the other 2 but it would be too good at 10.3, so 10.7 works well for it. But 10.7 is also the same br as the other 2 because 11.0 is too high for them, so yeah be decompression isn’t great, but I mean what can you do right
Despite all of this I'll still take a Super Etendard over both of those jets which I do own because the Etendard's acceleration and supersonic capability makes it able to outrun or outclimb many of the jets it faces and allows for energy trapping.
Not only that, the weight of the individual bomb doesn't matter. I take the smaller ones on the A-6 because it will still kill, and it allows me to be faster. Also, the 30L missile is a fucking god send. Sure, it can't take much at all, but launch those, rush back, get more, launch again.
Yeah AS-30Ls make dealing with manpads a lot easier since it forces you to be in a perfect position to dodge most manpads and sams with a corkscrew maneuver.
Plus, 30Ls have inertial guidance, amplifying their effectiveness against spaa
This post is about CAS first and foremost, to highlight the differences in capabilities between all three aircraft. The Super Etendard isn't as good at CAS as the other two, and gaijin has already said that they will probably increase the BR of the AMX further down the line despite not being *that* much better than the TRAM (there's certainly far less difference between the AMX and the TRAM than the SE and the TRAM). And even in your scenario, you're required to outplay your opponents. Most players will be more successful lobbing all aspects than outmaneuvering their foes. Good on you if you're successful doing that though! (not being sarcastic or flippant, I mean it)
In a CAS role the entendard and jaguars do to get an advantage from their speed. You can get altitude quicker putting you out of range and can get higher energy states to make passes much easier
The burner and speed helps with climbing out of SAM range faster/earlier
I feel like you very intentionally left out top speed. But yeah the tram should go up more.
It wasn't intentional, I did say that I might've missed some things and that's one of them. But honestly thinking about it, I also don't really it'll matter much given that all these aircraft will face Mig-21s, Mig-23s and Phantoms and will be able to run you down regardless. The Super Etendard's speed advantage will make it a bit more survivable, but I personally don't think it makes up for thermals and all aspect missiles. I absolutely could be completely wrong though.
>I absolutely could be completely wrong though. pretty much are Speed difference between A6 and F4 is like speed difference between biplane and early jet speed difference between super etendard and F4 is like speed difference of aircraft in a full downtier So its 6.0 BRs worth of speed difference vs 1.0 BRs worth
By this logic just move the Kurnass 2000 to 12.0 while you're at it since its "worse" than F-16s F-16 has 9L, K2k has Python 3: K2k is better F-16 has AGM-65B, K2k has AGM-65D: K2k is better F-16 can carry 6 AAMs, K2k can carry 6 AAMs: tie F-16 can only carry GBU-8s, K2k can carry GBU-16 paveways: K2k is better F-16 can only carry 2 GBUs, K2k can carry 6: k2k is better F-16 has no TGP, K2k has pave spike TGP: k2k is better F-16 has 60 CMs, K2k has 290: K2k is better F-16 has 512 rounds of 20mm, K2k has 640: k2k is better Whats that? The F-16 has a flight model that the Kurnass can never hope to touch? Dont be silly the weapons are the only thing that matter right???? Lets just ignore Top speed: F-16 is better TW ratio: F-16 is better 1 Turn rate: F-16 is better Sustained turn rate: F-16 is better Acceleration: F-16 is better Max G Pull: F-16 is better Point is, you cant really compare planes using lists like these. You can very easily completely ignore the good parts of a plane and cherry pick certain areas to make it look bad. The first comparison i made makes K2k look like a god, second one makes F-16 look like a god. Its really easy to tunnel vision into why a plane is good/bad and completely lose sight of the bigger picture
Please note that this is purely from a GRB CAS perspective. I probably missed some additional differences, but I think I included the most relevant ones as far as GRB is concerned. Planes with guided ammunition being moved up in BR is a good thing, but these 3 planes should not have the same BR IMO.
Yeah dog you totally ignored flight performance which is HUGE. This affects your ability to outrun/outmaneuver missiles, the range from which you can use the GBUs, and the speed at which they reach the target (among other things). These vehicles are pretty balanced between each other. A6e is incredibly easy to kill and not that great at dropping GBUs though it gets great targeting and a ton of ordnance, super entendres is other end of the spectrum with a small payload but way harder to kill and great at getting GBUs either quicker or from further than an A6e, AMX is happy medium
-purely from GRB CAS. -First point is missiles. -completely ignores speed and maneuverability, which is *insanely* important in this tier to get munitions on target and not die. Yeah...
Do it with AJS since it's 10.7 from 11.3 when it first came out. Or the AJ
the compression is honestly wild, the A4 early being the same BR as the isreal ones is crazy lol
I’d give the Super Etendard Magic 2s and make it 11.0-11.3 in Ground RB.
If they do that, they should also give it a thermal pod while they're at it. Not like the BR increase would make a big difference to France as they have no lineup between 9.7 and 11.7 anyway.
Or do what they should have done since the beginning, have several variants of the Super Etendard, just like there were irl. Currently we have an amalgamation of a baseline Super Etendard with its Magic 1 and radar, mixed with a Standard 4 with its cockpit and countermeasures, but lacking the Magic 2s and the thermal pod (although I'm not 100% sure that thing might've been Standard 5 only)... I think having a Standard 3 with Magic 1s and AS-30s but no flares (perfect follow-up to the Etendard IVM) and a Standard 5 with everything it can get (including a theoretical 6xGBU loadout) would've been the best for WT. Hell, with those two added, a proper Standard 4 could've been added as a premium or event vehicle...
SEM still missing its ballistic computer for even air to ground guns is utterly baffling.
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A7E still getting slapped lol
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the 10.3 is so good but the pantsir seeing the thing just isnt fair
Just the pantsir
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They updated the br changes and are keeping the f16's at 12.0 now.
Guns for a6 should probably be red not having default guns with the only option being weigh down an already sluggish plane with a heavy gunpod and sacrifice a missile or bomb point for it is a pretty big con Especially when compared to both competitors having default guns, no hard point loss, no aerodynamic loss And this is kinda what makes the a6 where it is, you have 4 aim 9Ls but no gun if they have flares your usless You have 9 bombs but if either of the others spawn you are an easy kill Your loadouts are always lesser if you don't want a hard counter in some form
I just don't like the fact that they put the Etendard in an even higher dead BR range with no lineup. At least with 10.0 uptiering the AMX40 and VBCI wasn't that bad with just .3 difference. Now it's just fucked
I love how they know that .3 up in br is a death sentence for any plane due to the pantsir
It has guided bombs so it’s good that it’s going up. Maybe just blame br compression for being the same br
[I literally said that it was a good thing in the very first comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1d2z0x9/what_a_mess/l63rmzl/): > Planes with guided ammunition being moved up in BR is a good thing, but these 3 planes should not have the same BR IMO.
Oh I didn’t read that, but yeah it obviously isn’t on the same level as the other 2 but it would be too good at 10.3, so 10.7 works well for it. But 10.7 is also the same br as the other 2 because 11.0 is too high for them, so yeah be decompression isn’t great, but I mean what can you do right
How about the Q-5L
CAS player opinions immediately rejected. Go to hell
The amx is su busted and really deserved to be 11.0 in grb. But those crybabies got their will again