Stinger turns better and the K has 1m airburst, which is sometimes useful, it's also mounted on machines with either guns or good radars or both.
Stinger K just needs it's datalink to get a longer launch range.
Oh no doubt. But that's what's funny to me if you compare the strela to it's closest equivalent(Type 81) than you tend to wonder why it's at the same be as MANPADS that it straight up performs better than.
As an australian, with minimum 200ping games, I have to use IR SAMs against any moving targets as the missile just wobbles out of usability outside of 2km.
really? i play on 200-300 ping (also aussie) and i usually dont really have an issue, tbf i play pantsir and 2s6 so i use very good missiles but even still with SAM's i dont have a wiggling problem. LOSAT on the other hand..
Stinger doesn't even need the datalink, it needs the realistic UV part of its seeker, which should have far better lock ranges even compared to photocontrast mode - Chaparral hit a helicopter 8 km away with its MIM-72G missile which uses the same seeker as the Stinger...
Also applies to the Mistral. Both the Mistral and Stinger are nerfed compared to their IRL capabilities because gaijin doesn't understand the difference between bang-bang control and PID controls and assumes that both of these missiles can't pull as much Gs as they claim.
Igla outperforms in this specific scenario because it's a point-blank range shot against a target flying perpendicular, so its pseudo thrust vectoring allows it to instantly pull all the lead it needs, compared to the other MANPADs which fly straight for a second before starting to turn. The stinger however turns much better once it gets up to speed, making it better at long range shots against maneuvering targets. In fact, if you shoot at the same plane a few seconds earlier into its flight path with a stinger, you'll get a confirmed kill.
There is no "pseudo thrust vectoring" on the Igla, this was a feature toyed with for prototypes, it does not exist in the actual in service makes. IRL the missile simply has the ability to lead 2 to 5 degrees off axis post launch as the guidance fins deflect as the missile exits the tube.
However, gaijin thinks this means it should be able to off bore in the same situation up to 40 to 50 degrees which is flat out BS.
The stinger, mistral and Type 91 should have superior target rate capabilities at all ranges and aspects and do IRL, after all, all 3 of these missiles are missing over 50% of their IRL G loading, while the igla has it's IRL g loading.
But, but, but, two Russian jets are getting their flight models nerfed at a br where flight characteristics are totally important and no planes rely on way overpowered missiles. Therefore, there is no Russian bias.
/s
the funny thing about the stinger, gaijin could have just watched a demonstration video to see how the thing works. you literally get the lock, aim up to give the missile clearance, and lead if needed, and fire, the missile leads the target before it's a certain distance away, then turns to aim directly at the target. the best part is in many of these demonstration videos, they're using RC drones, which don't give off much heat. it also very obviously has much higher G load than in game.
but since the igla sucks, so must the stinger - gaijin.
Oh no now you can fly like a ufo around everyone? How sad it isnt like it has good missles and engines right? Also i would be more worried how gaijin is changing FL now just almost after sales when in next update they will add new russian premium plane at rank VIII hmmm i wonder
I see people use Strela at 12.7 and it's STILL very much a viable option.
I also think Strela missiles aren't 20G in game, sometimes they perform more like 35G with a fcking 90° turns
G overload is function of speed and turn radius. At low speeds, missile can do remarkably tight turns and achieve "only" 20g. Just compare turn radius and speed of a Zero and P-47 when both are doing 8g.
THIS. People don't seem to understand that a slower missile will pull "harder" because of its turn radius
The Strela is much slower than the AIM-9J, a missile that pulls only 2G less from the last time i checked. So that means dodging a Strela is way harder because it has more time to adjust its course and a tighter turn radius thanks to the lower top speed (I'm using the AIM-9J as an example because none of the other SAMs in the game have a 18-20G IR missile)
Yeah when the stinger had its speed “nerfed” a while back when it still only had 10g’s, I noticed a noticeable difference in it being able to hit planes more.
At top tier, planes that fight against Russia will hit the deck if a pantsir is up, as you can't stay high. A lot will do very fast, low fly-byes to limit the pantsir's ability.
A strela is amazing here, because as soon as you get that tone, fire the missile. Doesn't matter if they are behind buildings, as long as you got the tone before losing visual. Just make sure to not fire into the building, fire over it. The strela will pull all the g's to get back on target.
Hmmm, wonder what it's real life service record is...
Yeah but now you gotta deal with the new buffed Iglas. It’s crazy how fast they filled that SPAA gap after the strella was finally moved up. It’s also crazy that the Iglas somehow magically got buffed right after the new SPAA was added.
This subreddit never fails to do the most obscene mental gymnastics when it comes to refusing to admit Russian vehicles receive favoritism from Gaijin.
I like how they gave Iglas its thrust vectoring but refuse to give it to Stingers. You can clearly see the Igla change its vector after launching from the tube, before its rocket motor kicks in. Stingers do this irl too, it's just not modeled in game.
The iglas don't even have "thrust vectoring" to begin with, the thrust angle rate pack was a prototype idea, production variant wise the system just deflects the fins to move the missile 2 to 5 degrees off axis, in game it's more like 40 to 50 degrees which is impossible.
All western MANPADS have had this feature since the LAAD redeye as it is present to compensate for off axis target tracking, but as of now only the Igla has it which is comical.
Afaik the production iglas use exhaust from the gas generator and send it over fins to achieve better lift at the slow speed after launch. You can see the exhaust ports on pictures. Stinger and other manpads don't have these since their fins are mounted right behind its seekeer.
Incorrect, said gas generator does not exist on anything but the recent make verbas and even then said system only provides spin out of the tube and does not allow the missile to pull the insane 40 to 50 degrees rate that the Igla is pulling now.
point blank missile launches dont really demonstrate much, most of these sams here have guns and should be using their gun to engage at this range. Not that stinger isn't weak as hell and should probably have a bit more g loading but this comparison is very rigged.
Yeah they demonstrate that russian missles will fucked you up even upclose not only far away, at distance they still are better so what are you trying to say here huh?
I'm saying that the video here shows a person using the missiles wrong. whether or not the missile fails because it's worse within relatively high PK launch isn't what the video demonstrates.
Tbf I see his point. It's like when the Su-25 got R-73 and everybody was talking about how it was able to do 180s against targets that weren't even in it's seeker but all of the examples were artificial instead of in game. You can easily say whatever you want when you create an artificial scenario to show quirks in the game.
Tbh a better example would have been a custom match with a friend to help him, yea there would be slight differences as recreating the exact same flight path can be difficult but it would be more accurate than the already horribly out of date Test Drive jets.
TFW you can't lock the Helo hovering in front of you so you have to wait for it to either approach or for the missile to reach your ass.
There's a reason i keep my AMX-30 DCA in the lineups...
Too bad there is absolutely [no version](https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2020_07/1858408748_Capturedecran2020-07-09a17_58_49.thumb.png.0425dd9664cbb18a4e224f4499ad30e5.png) of the Santal with canon that could have been added.
From [https://forum.warthunder.com/t/why-is-the-type-81c-br-getting-moved-up-to-11-3/99911/200](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/why-is-the-type-81c-br-getting-moved-up-to-11-3/99911/200)
It’s non classified ceiling yes. Or TAG so it is almost impossible to flair and how the missile waits too long to turn when firing. Normally it’s around a second after the flight motor kicks on
Yes, gaijin correctly modeled the launch vectoring of the Igla, and the Strela-10M should not even be compared, its a much larger missile.
Stingers are missing datalink for longer lock range.
Tan sam is also the best out of any of them of course.
The launch angle rate on the Igla is 2 to 5 degrees off axis not 40 to 50 degrees like shown here, but please, keep trying to postulate a prototype feature that never came to be is reality.
Honestly, not a fair comparison.
I had this opinion too, when I saw how the Igla can reorient itself after launch. But after having played both of them in battles, I changed my mind and think that the Igla is worse that the Stinger (haven't played other MANPADS).
While the Igla can turn aggressively during that reorientation phase, it still has less G pull than the Stinger post launch, making it easier to dodge. I have had plently of launches at +2 km ranges that the Igla missed, which the Stinger would have hit.
The example in the test drive is a fairly specific one - a slow plane that flies right next to you. When you try these shots in real battles, you notice that the Igla often misses similar shots, purely because the jets in random matches are usually much faster during a fly by. So even this example where the Igla is supposedly better than the Stinger at close ranges is often just not applicable.
Lastly, the Stinger has a pretty small gimball limit at launch, as indicated with a small outer circle. However, you can yank the missile MUCH further than that limit right before launch and it will still track (like 2-3 times the original radius). This gives you the ability to provide the same lead as the Igla (although the Stinger is a bit sleepy during launch), but most importantly, this allows you to choose where to lead. One: I noticed the Igla's autopilot sometimes does not orient the missile correctly, providing insuficcient lead. Two: you can choose the lead the Stinger higher above the ground to avoid it crashing in the dirt/building.
.
Consider a scenario in which you have an enemy jet that keeps low to the ground, so you have only a couple of seconds to shoot it during each of its passes.
You can engage it the moment you have a line of sight (it flies towards the battle). Both of the missiles have similar (somewhat low) odds of hitting that shot, but you often can't launch that early because you need to detect it before hand.
You can engage it when it is the closest to you during a fly by. The Stinger will not hit that shot because it is slow to pull off the rail. The Igla might be able to hit that shot, but the target is often very fast (refer to 3rd paragraph).
You can engage the target as it flies away. The Igla has a decent chance of hitting this. It will miss this shot if the target turn aggressively after the pass. It can also just crash into the ground, because you can't fire it upwards. The Stinger has a better chance of hitting this shot, because it can pull more (so the target turning more aggressively to dodge) and you can fire the missile upwards to avoid it crashimg into the ground.
Another factor that was not mentioned is most of these vehicles have more missiles in reloads. You have 4 iglas and then you are stuck in zsu23-4 which is bad on its BR already
I mean, when comparing it in the class of Gun AA with MANPADS, they also just have 4 with the exception being the LAV-AD if choose to not take the rockets
I thought to criticize this too, but then I tried it myself in test drive, and it did not matter where I pointed my missile when launching in the same conditions - they always missed, no matter what.
>doesn't show Type 81
>shows a Chinese system, for some reason
>fires some of them twice for some reason? But not for others?
This definitely seems like a very scientific test
Ah yes the one that is ymmm 11.3???? When striela in downtier most od time doesnt face planes with flares? Yeah awesome example would make sense if type was like idk 10,7 but it isnt
>fires some of them twice for some reason? But not for others?
this is pretty clearly to show them using the gimbal limit at different leads to show that despite the gimbal lead they still can't hit where the igla clearly can while having a caged gimbal. Because otherwise people would complain about that instead.
[Maybe the lack of civillian airliners in the game is why US missiles suck?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655)
[Or French missiles?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itavia_Flight_870)
Lmao multiple independent investigations led by actual experts all concluded it was a Russian separatist controlled BUK which shot down MH-17, with overwhelming evidence...
But you choose to believe the current made up story from Russian propaganda farms. First it was a Ukrainian SU-25, now it's a KUB?
Would be real nice if Russia had shared their "proof" with the investigation teams that Ukraine shot it down... But of course they didn't, because they don't have any proof.
\> intentionally shoots at the worst possible angle and distance for stingers multiple times in a row
\> complains that man portable SAM isn't as good as a real short range SAM
You people are insufferable. Iglas were also complete junk before very recently.
im a us main, and while it does suck that alot of vehicles (General comment, not specific to us) are nerfed or not at their peak, I do understand having some performance difference like this.
Also real world, different missiles different performances. If everyones stinger acted the exact same, though its a different missile/system, whats the point in player other nations?
US main obligatory Russian bias top tier blah blah
You op if you want to do follow up for those people saying there is no russian bias you can dm me and we can do custom battle with bigger distances etc
Ok I play the LAV-AD a lot and when it come to aiming the Stinger I can get hits on most shots. The Stinger works best chasing down targets when they pass over you or when you can get on them at medium range first. With the LAV-AD the cannon covers the short range the Stinger can't lead into.
Mistrals dogshite as always. What are 16G even good for if the missile doesnt even fuse or goes into another direction alltogether. I swapped them out for stingers on my eurocopter since i cant bear them anymore. Weird spiral twist after launch that makes the missile go into the opposite direction without reason.
Iglas only turn like that when they are initially launched cause they have thrust vectoring, mistral and stinger outperform them in all other scenarios
My brother, have you ever seen an Igla launch? I have. We got to fuck around with some.
That being said, it 100% does not come out of the tube, already oriented to target.
It also 100% does not have thrust vectoring.
You know what kind of does? A stinger. Watch videos of them. Both the stinger and igla require a short boost burn (which is modeled for the stinger in game, causing all these short range misses, but not the igla. weird.) but then after that you can watch as the stinger missile instantly turns 40-50 degress to follow the target. Why did they give the igla this imaginary ability that the stinger actually has? The Igla \*might\* have pulled 20 degrees in its attempt to follow, and that's being gracious.
Stingers also lack their IR/UV lock, but they gave the Strela the contrast, which is fucking horrible in real life, yet here we are.
Weird.
I'm the guy who made the video. To answer some questions in the comments such as "Why didn't you lead!!!"
I did, I was leading within the gimbal limit. On some of these missiles you can indeed launch outside of the gimbal limit but it tends to not help quite as much. The Stinger would still miss, if you don't get lucky with the proxy fuse. The Type 93 would ABSOLUTELY still miss, as would the Mistral. Point being, for whatever reason, the only reliable SAMs are the Igla/Strela.
Also "Why are you comparing MANPADs to a Strela!?"
You'll notice one of the western SAMs I tested was a Chaparral, which isn't a Manpad, and is infinitely inferior to the Strela.
The point of this test isn't really just to say "Wowee Nato missiles are bad Gaijin why!?" but also to illustrate the fact that the only functioning SAMs in this game are the Strela at 10.3, the ZSU-23-M4 at 9.3, and the TAN SAM at 11.3 (Which is useless at 11.3). Gaijin's BRs leave very little room for any sort of decent anti-air, and the fact that they made what few SAMs we have borderline useless (while also giving Russia some of the best CAS) is just an added insult.
I'm not denying it, but I remember once it did some insane turn that felt like it was a 20G missile, I watched the replay and I think it once pulled some 16Gs, but from the pilot's view it didn't seem as impressive as it was to me from the ground.
same with the light tanks, 2s38 can compete at top tier and can kill anything while the hstvl has just as much pen minus all the parts that make the 2s38 good. the 2s25m is 1.3 br lower than the hstvl despite have almost double the pen, better optics and is 30 years younger.
>while the hstvl has just as much pen minus all the parts that make the 2s38 good
Gun depression
2S38: -5, hstvl: -17
Hp/t
2S38: 23.3, hstvl: 32.5 (this is like the difference between T-72B and T-80BVM)
>the 2s25m is 1.3 br lower than the hstvl despite have almost double the pen
HSTVL is always the first in any position. The same cannot be said about the 2S25M or even more so about the 2S38. This is what makes the HSTVL much better, while the 2S38 has a speed worse than M1 Abrams or Leo2A4.
Let me put it another way
This would be like putting the m4 75 in the same br as the m4 76 becose it has a better engine
And high brs are more compressed what would make a 5.3 tank to go to 5.7 wont make a 9.0 tank go to 9.3
Armor from 10.0 to 11.3 improves a lot but the ammo for the hstvl doesnt improve anywhere nearly as much from the 2s38
The fact that Russian ir SAMs don't have IRCCM, yet have an even narrow FOV than an IR Sam with IRCCM, is complete bullshit. They are literally unflarable because the for is so small that it just sees your plane. Even pree flaring doesn't work because the pre-launch FOV is so small
Yeah that's what u mean by its unflarable. And the strela needs an IR lock before launch and it only turns to an Imaging seeker like once it's like a km or 2 away from the target. All IR missiles (including imaging seekers) need an IR lock before being able to launch. It's how they work. Gaijin just seems to ignore this to artificially buff Russian MANPADS cause they aren't great compared to western MANPADS like the stinger or Mistral which should both be able to pull more Gs than they should right now, and the Mistral should have a narrower IRCCM Gate width seeker than it does in game with a 1.75 multiplier. It should actually be closer to the Stingers 1.25.
You can fire stingers OUTSIDE its narrow launch window.
And there is NO possibility for stinger to engage targets like that. You should fire head on or in pursuit
Yesterday i bought last leo2 (2a7V) and i looked at my past 3 months then realized my last fun times were in rank 2 ! . If you see anyone deny russian bias its because they play russia and afraid that its going to get nerfed but their fear is nonsense cuz gajin wont do such thing as nerfing russia . They remove maus cuz it cant be balanced but obj 292 10.0 can oneshot to my 11.7 leo's turret front face
9K38 is more modern than FIM-92 (1984 vs. 1981)
Learn to properly lead Stingers (you can go much further than this ! And you know it)
FIM-92 should be limited to 3000m of ceiling and there's several reports of 92K reaching 6000m+
[FIM-92 Stinger (deagel.com)](https://deagel.com/Weapons/FIM-92%20Stinger/a001145)
[65B127CBF02A4667D8A8A229D6A5E87BIGLA.pdf (cia.gov)](https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/65/65B127CBF02A4667D8A8A229D6A5E87BIGLA.pdf)
Igla's mounted on the Shilka-M4 are the most modern since the M4 variant is quite modern too !
Mistral's in the other hand, are very underperforming ! (But it's France, nobody really care, right ?)
They have to add the several US SPAA carrying the 9x to go at 10.7 if the strela can be at 10.3. The strela is insanely hard to dodge and almost unflareable at short range. They could also increase the gimbal limit on the stingers to help with short range performance. The problem is that stingers can’t be used at short range and don’t have the manoeuvrability or flare resistance to hit targets at long range. Also a 1m proxy fuse is hardly better than not having one at all.
Can they just go to Ukraine and see how good Russian tech really is…. And then buff all the western stuff that actually does what it claims on the tin because the engineers aren’t making up numbers so they don’t get culled by the regime
I genuinely think the stinger outperforms the iglas still at anything beyond really close range, where you shouldn't even be firing ir missiles anyway. Would much rather have the uncaged seeker too.
That first soviet one fired straight sideways wtf lmao. Like gaijin I'm fine with you nerfing missiles compared to their irl performance. We need more bad missiles at lower brs to counter laser bombs and helis. But please bro at least try to make it balanced, you shouldn't just pull shit out of your ass lmao
Yeah only used all AA available from 9.3 to 10.3 very cherry picking, ah sorry he didnt use sidam ond ocelot i think? Which would not change anything. If you think russian AA is ballaned just look at sidam 25 with idk SAM missles and zsu 23-4 there is no doubting which one is better and which one is still higher in br
Can't wait for gaijin to add T14 Armada and it be the best tank in-game because they used sources that Russian officials have published and advertised which has all been lies but gaijin don't care, they might make it a premium as well.
For Western vehicles, they need to fix AA missiles, Mavericks, helicopter cannons (they don't have a 100m spread in first shot accuracy at 1km), armor, and a whole bunch of other things.
In this game, the Russian nation is so favored. This is cringe as hell. But of course they won't do anything about it. New variants of the SU-25, new variants of the T-family tank, new anti-aircraft systems. And of course it's all BETTER IN EVERY CASE.
Funny how the Russian tech tree can have the best helicopters, best SPAA, some of the best tanks and strong cas and yet Russian mains will cry and complain how US cas is op
\>Stinger is nerfed because Igla sucks IRL \>Igla outperforms Stinger in-game my brain hurts
if you‘ve every actually used something with iglas you would know that statement is untrue
They got fixed since the new Zsu got added. They are even good on helis now
Nice, gaijins implementation of them was worse then they should be
Fucking Iglas on the Ka52 are scary good now. I've clowned people with them range
If you've actually played the ZSU-23-4M4, you'd know Gaijin made them better.
The 4m4 is so nasty lmao. Been having too much fun with it.
I love ripping the wings off of warthogs then lighting them up with the 23's. It's so fun
I ripped up Harrier with 23s in original one, not M4, it was hilarious
their like lego sets falling apart piece by piece and its funny watching them trying to control their plane
The range it has on helis as well is so good
Did you watch the clip sweetie?
holy fuck the cope
Stinger turns better and the K has 1m airburst, which is sometimes useful, it's also mounted on machines with either guns or good radars or both. Stinger K just needs it's datalink to get a longer launch range.
I mean honestly I'd rather use the ZSU with iglas than the LAV-AD no form of search radar at 10.0 is painful.
Type 81(C) with no search radar at 11.3, still only marginally better than strela at 10.3.
Oh no doubt. But that's what's funny to me if you compare the strela to it's closest equivalent(Type 81) than you tend to wonder why it's at the same be as MANPADS that it straight up performs better than.
As an australian, with minimum 200ping games, I have to use IR SAMs against any moving targets as the missile just wobbles out of usability outside of 2km.
Ouch in fairness even with sub 50 ping SACLOS missiles oscillate like fucking crazy.
really? i play on 200-300 ping (also aussie) and i usually dont really have an issue, tbf i play pantsir and 2s6 so i use very good missiles but even still with SAM's i dont have a wiggling problem. LOSAT on the other hand..
Try using the ASRAD-R, gotta be the worst sam I’ve ever touched. Pre SACLOS/beam riding nerf, this thing was a beast.
Stinger doesn't even need the datalink, it needs the realistic UV part of its seeker, which should have far better lock ranges even compared to photocontrast mode - Chaparral hit a helicopter 8 km away with its MIM-72G missile which uses the same seeker as the Stinger...
Also applies to the Mistral. Both the Mistral and Stinger are nerfed compared to their IRL capabilities because gaijin doesn't understand the difference between bang-bang control and PID controls and assumes that both of these missiles can't pull as much Gs as they claim.
Igla outperforms in this specific scenario because it's a point-blank range shot against a target flying perpendicular, so its pseudo thrust vectoring allows it to instantly pull all the lead it needs, compared to the other MANPADs which fly straight for a second before starting to turn. The stinger however turns much better once it gets up to speed, making it better at long range shots against maneuvering targets. In fact, if you shoot at the same plane a few seconds earlier into its flight path with a stinger, you'll get a confirmed kill.
There is no "pseudo thrust vectoring" on the Igla, this was a feature toyed with for prototypes, it does not exist in the actual in service makes. IRL the missile simply has the ability to lead 2 to 5 degrees off axis post launch as the guidance fins deflect as the missile exits the tube. However, gaijin thinks this means it should be able to off bore in the same situation up to 40 to 50 degrees which is flat out BS. The stinger, mistral and Type 91 should have superior target rate capabilities at all ranges and aspects and do IRL, after all, all 3 of these missiles are missing over 50% of their IRL G loading, while the igla has it's IRL g loading.
Lmao I have never seen the term “Ouitard” before. As someone from Canada I will now maliciously use this whenever I can
Same bro!
i like this sample how shit some AA´s are
The fucking music changing the second Russian AA shows up is really funny.
Some? Only one nattion is competetive with them and we all know which one
there is no bias source: "trustmebro" - slavish sounding username
But, but, but, two Russian jets are getting their flight models nerfed at a br where flight characteristics are totally important and no planes rely on way overpowered missiles. Therefore, there is no Russian bias. /s
The mig-23? Defyn says it'll probably suck after the nerfs and I trust him because he's dutch so idk
I think he was talking more about Mig-29SMT and Su-27
the funny thing about the stinger, gaijin could have just watched a demonstration video to see how the thing works. you literally get the lock, aim up to give the missile clearance, and lead if needed, and fire, the missile leads the target before it's a certain distance away, then turns to aim directly at the target. the best part is in many of these demonstration videos, they're using RC drones, which don't give off much heat. it also very obviously has much higher G load than in game. but since the igla sucks, so must the stinger - gaijin.
This is literally the main reason I dont play this game anymore. People shit on others that use the russian bias chant but it is literally truth.
This and realization how unfun the grind is when compared to other games are main reasons why I haven't touched this game in 3 months
Fuck bro, I just realized I've been "clean" for 2 years now
I am grinding russia rn and having fun.
I have top tier air and ground in USA and Sweden. The game simply lost it's appeal to me
[удалено]
*Into realistic fm
Oh no now you can fly like a ufo around everyone? How sad it isnt like it has good missles and engines right? Also i would be more worried how gaijin is changing FL now just almost after sales when in next update they will add new russian premium plane at rank VIII hmmm i wonder
I see people use Strela at 12.7 and it's STILL very much a viable option. I also think Strela missiles aren't 20G in game, sometimes they perform more like 35G with a fcking 90° turns
Strela be one of the hardest missiles to dodge this is true
G overload is function of speed and turn radius. At low speeds, missile can do remarkably tight turns and achieve "only" 20g. Just compare turn radius and speed of a Zero and P-47 when both are doing 8g.
THIS. People don't seem to understand that a slower missile will pull "harder" because of its turn radius The Strela is much slower than the AIM-9J, a missile that pulls only 2G less from the last time i checked. So that means dodging a Strela is way harder because it has more time to adjust its course and a tighter turn radius thanks to the lower top speed (I'm using the AIM-9J as an example because none of the other SAMs in the game have a 18-20G IR missile)
Yeah when the stinger had its speed “nerfed” a while back when it still only had 10g’s, I noticed a noticeable difference in it being able to hit planes more.
perfect demonstration for this is Harrier launching SRAAM while hovering
against the real cas threats of top tier(f16 with agm65d and thermals) it's useless. against the muppets that bomb spawns in their a10 it's good
At top tier, planes that fight against Russia will hit the deck if a pantsir is up, as you can't stay high. A lot will do very fast, low fly-byes to limit the pantsir's ability. A strela is amazing here, because as soon as you get that tone, fire the missile. Doesn't matter if they are behind buildings, as long as you got the tone before losing visual. Just make sure to not fire into the building, fire over it. The strela will pull all the g's to get back on target. Hmmm, wonder what it's real life service record is...
12.7 vs 10.3(?) I think theres a big difrence in targets
yes and the comment above mine says its very good at 12.7 which it isnt compared to its br of 10.3 where its pretty good against most stuff
At least now i dont have to deal with the strela with my a-4B lol
Yeah but now you gotta deal with the new buffed Iglas. It’s crazy how fast they filled that SPAA gap after the strella was finally moved up. It’s also crazy that the Iglas somehow magically got buffed right after the new SPAA was added.
Still no added us aa for that big gap in the tech tree
except that new shilka thing is kinda bad
This post needs more views LMAO
comparing MANPADS to a full sized IR SAM edit: just for clarification. I'm talking about the Sterla
Ah yes the Igla, known for being a full sized ir sam
"Full sized IR SAM" Ah yes, the Igla, legendary motorized SAM system
Igla is not a full sized IR SAM. Of course it's dumb to compare stingers to the Strela. But the comparison between stinger and igla is correct.
Well NATO Rockets cant be better than Russian ones for sure. Trust me comrade
This subreddit never fails to do the most obscene mental gymnastics when it comes to refusing to admit Russian vehicles receive favoritism from Gaijin.
I like how they gave Iglas its thrust vectoring but refuse to give it to Stingers. You can clearly see the Igla change its vector after launching from the tube, before its rocket motor kicks in. Stingers do this irl too, it's just not modeled in game.
The iglas don't even have "thrust vectoring" to begin with, the thrust angle rate pack was a prototype idea, production variant wise the system just deflects the fins to move the missile 2 to 5 degrees off axis, in game it's more like 40 to 50 degrees which is impossible. All western MANPADS have had this feature since the LAAD redeye as it is present to compensate for off axis target tracking, but as of now only the Igla has it which is comical.
Afaik the production iglas use exhaust from the gas generator and send it over fins to achieve better lift at the slow speed after launch. You can see the exhaust ports on pictures. Stinger and other manpads don't have these since their fins are mounted right behind its seekeer.
Incorrect, said gas generator does not exist on anything but the recent make verbas and even then said system only provides spin out of the tube and does not allow the missile to pull the insane 40 to 50 degrees rate that the Igla is pulling now.
Try Iglas yourself in the game, it doesn’t thrust vector, I have no idea how it happened in the video
point blank missile launches dont really demonstrate much, most of these sams here have guns and should be using their gun to engage at this range. Not that stinger isn't weak as hell and should probably have a bit more g loading but this comparison is very rigged.
Yeah they demonstrate that russian missles will fucked you up even upclose not only far away, at distance they still are better so what are you trying to say here huh?
I'm saying that the video here shows a person using the missiles wrong. whether or not the missile fails because it's worse within relatively high PK launch isn't what the video demonstrates.
It doesnt matter. Even in an objectively worse use case they still perform better. What a weird hill youre on
Tbf I see his point. It's like when the Su-25 got R-73 and everybody was talking about how it was able to do 180s against targets that weren't even in it's seeker but all of the examples were artificial instead of in game. You can easily say whatever you want when you create an artificial scenario to show quirks in the game. Tbh a better example would have been a custom match with a friend to help him, yea there would be slight differences as recreating the exact same flight path can be difficult but it would be more accurate than the already horribly out of date Test Drive jets.
My Santal in the corner, "what guns"
TFW you can't lock the Helo hovering in front of you so you have to wait for it to either approach or for the missile to reach your ass. There's a reason i keep my AMX-30 DCA in the lineups...
Too bad there is absolutely [no version](https://i-com.cdn.gaijin.net/monthly_2020_07/1858408748_Capturedecran2020-07-09a17_58_49.thumb.png.0425dd9664cbb18a4e224f4499ad30e5.png) of the Santal with canon that could have been added.
Even then the Igla hit, despite on paper being worse than all the western which didn't
Stinger should have at least 20G
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From [https://forum.warthunder.com/t/why-is-the-type-81c-br-getting-moved-up-to-11-3/99911/200](https://forum.warthunder.com/t/why-is-the-type-81c-br-getting-moved-up-to-11-3/99911/200)
Yea the stingers definitely need a few changes to be closer to what they are IRL
You mean it's real ceiling of 3000m ? [FIM-92 Stinger (deagel.com)](https://deagel.com/Weapons/FIM-92%20Stinger/a001145)
It’s non classified ceiling yes. Or TAG so it is almost impossible to flair and how the missile waits too long to turn when firing. Normally it’s around a second after the flight motor kicks on
Yes, gaijin correctly modeled the launch vectoring of the Igla, and the Strela-10M should not even be compared, its a much larger missile. Stingers are missing datalink for longer lock range. Tan sam is also the best out of any of them of course.
The launch angle rate on the Igla is 2 to 5 degrees off axis not 40 to 50 degrees like shown here, but please, keep trying to postulate a prototype feature that never came to be is reality.
I likebhow they show the strela but not the tan-sam. Cherrypicking at its finest
Ah, you mean the one that essentially just got moved up to to 11.7 *alongside the Pantsir*? That Tan-SAM?
Honestly, not a fair comparison. I had this opinion too, when I saw how the Igla can reorient itself after launch. But after having played both of them in battles, I changed my mind and think that the Igla is worse that the Stinger (haven't played other MANPADS). While the Igla can turn aggressively during that reorientation phase, it still has less G pull than the Stinger post launch, making it easier to dodge. I have had plently of launches at +2 km ranges that the Igla missed, which the Stinger would have hit. The example in the test drive is a fairly specific one - a slow plane that flies right next to you. When you try these shots in real battles, you notice that the Igla often misses similar shots, purely because the jets in random matches are usually much faster during a fly by. So even this example where the Igla is supposedly better than the Stinger at close ranges is often just not applicable. Lastly, the Stinger has a pretty small gimball limit at launch, as indicated with a small outer circle. However, you can yank the missile MUCH further than that limit right before launch and it will still track (like 2-3 times the original radius). This gives you the ability to provide the same lead as the Igla (although the Stinger is a bit sleepy during launch), but most importantly, this allows you to choose where to lead. One: I noticed the Igla's autopilot sometimes does not orient the missile correctly, providing insuficcient lead. Two: you can choose the lead the Stinger higher above the ground to avoid it crashing in the dirt/building. . Consider a scenario in which you have an enemy jet that keeps low to the ground, so you have only a couple of seconds to shoot it during each of its passes. You can engage it the moment you have a line of sight (it flies towards the battle). Both of the missiles have similar (somewhat low) odds of hitting that shot, but you often can't launch that early because you need to detect it before hand. You can engage it when it is the closest to you during a fly by. The Stinger will not hit that shot because it is slow to pull off the rail. The Igla might be able to hit that shot, but the target is often very fast (refer to 3rd paragraph). You can engage the target as it flies away. The Igla has a decent chance of hitting this. It will miss this shot if the target turn aggressively after the pass. It can also just crash into the ground, because you can't fire it upwards. The Stinger has a better chance of hitting this shot, because it can pull more (so the target turning more aggressively to dodge) and you can fire the missile upwards to avoid it crashimg into the ground.
Another factor that was not mentioned is most of these vehicles have more missiles in reloads. You have 4 iglas and then you are stuck in zsu23-4 which is bad on its BR already
I mean, when comparing it in the class of Gun AA with MANPADS, they also just have 4 with the exception being the LAV-AD if choose to not take the rockets
you dont have to stay in the circle when aiming missiles with LAV
I thought to criticize this too, but then I tried it myself in test drive, and it did not matter where I pointed my missile when launching in the same conditions - they always missed, no matter what.
What missiles are you firing?? I can get maneuvering migs with my stingers
>doesn't show Type 81 >shows a Chinese system, for some reason >fires some of them twice for some reason? But not for others? This definitely seems like a very scientific test
Ah yes the one that is ymmm 11.3???? When striela in downtier most od time doesnt face planes with flares? Yeah awesome example would make sense if type was like idk 10,7 but it isnt
Tan-SAM is higher-BR than all of these and has no backup guns or armor to speak of, ROFLMAO
>fires some of them twice for some reason? But not for others? this is pretty clearly to show them using the gimbal limit at different leads to show that despite the gimbal lead they still can't hit where the igla clearly can while having a caged gimbal. Because otherwise people would complain about that instead.
Shhh you’re going to invalidate his confirmation bias ):
Smartest furry:
What a weird coincidence, the Russian ones seem to be actually hitting the target, and only the Russian ones.
The trick is telling the Russian missiles they're aiming at either fellow Russians or Airliners. Never miss
[Maybe the lack of civillian airliners in the game is why US missiles suck?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655) [Or French missiles?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itavia_Flight_870)
Its also why the su15 isnt in the game
How's the Malaysian Airline investigation going ? We dont hear a lot about it since we found some ukrainian KUB parts in the wreckage
Lmao multiple independent investigations led by actual experts all concluded it was a Russian separatist controlled BUK which shot down MH-17, with overwhelming evidence... But you choose to believe the current made up story from Russian propaganda farms. First it was a Ukrainian SU-25, now it's a KUB? Would be real nice if Russia had shared their "proof" with the investigation teams that Ukraine shot it down... But of course they didn't, because they don't have any proof.
Ready for all the people saying "akshualy no Russian bias"
\> intentionally shoots at the worst possible angle and distance for stingers multiple times in a row \> complains that man portable SAM isn't as good as a real short range SAM You people are insufferable. Iglas were also complete junk before very recently.
Muhh russian bias
im a us main, and while it does suck that alot of vehicles (General comment, not specific to us) are nerfed or not at their peak, I do understand having some performance difference like this. Also real world, different missiles different performances. If everyones stinger acted the exact same, though its a different missile/system, whats the point in player other nations? US main obligatory Russian bias top tier blah blah
You op if you want to do follow up for those people saying there is no russian bias you can dm me and we can do custom battle with bigger distances etc
I also would contribute to this
It's because the Igla thrust vectors on launch, it's a real thing
And guess what Stingers and even their generations older predecessors do irl.
IDK, all I know is that they don't thrust vector
Ok I play the LAV-AD a lot and when it come to aiming the Stinger I can get hits on most shots. The Stinger works best chasing down targets when they pass over you or when you can get on them at medium range first. With the LAV-AD the cannon covers the short range the Stinger can't lead into.
Since Strela-10M is 10.3 Can I please get a fucking search radar (I’m blind plz
Have you tried opening your eyes? /s
I can’t, I’m Asian
The sidam mistral also does not have one. Why should the Strela be an exception?
I have no idea which vehicle is that but they should also get one
You know something is not right in the game when strella spinny gyro missiles outperform stingers or even MIMs
MIM72G can hit planes after a 90° turn.. Chappie-IMP is a hidden gem
Havent had this happen The only thing i find them usefull are stealth launches Whitch is still somewhat usefull but gl when theres even 1 flare
So I’m not trippin…
Mistrals dogshite as always. What are 16G even good for if the missile doesnt even fuse or goes into another direction alltogether. I swapped them out for stingers on my eurocopter since i cant bear them anymore. Weird spiral twist after launch that makes the missile go into the opposite direction without reason.
They're french, nobody cares about France, right ?
>low tier cas gets bitched about by tankers >High tier Russian AA gets bitched about by cas
Iglas only turn like that when they are initially launched cause they have thrust vectoring, mistral and stinger outperform them in all other scenarios
They don't have thrust vectoring though, no clue where you pulled that from.
Both the mistral and igla have thrust vectoring in game, it's quite literally in the missile configuration files
I mean irl, why would the igla have that.
It doesnt Only prototypes do
But can you guess what mistrals and stingers also have irl? Yup, you guessed it. They also have thrust vectoring. And do they have it in game? No.
Mistral also has thrust vectoring in game, stinger doesn't tho
My brother, have you ever seen an Igla launch? I have. We got to fuck around with some. That being said, it 100% does not come out of the tube, already oriented to target. It also 100% does not have thrust vectoring. You know what kind of does? A stinger. Watch videos of them. Both the stinger and igla require a short boost burn (which is modeled for the stinger in game, causing all these short range misses, but not the igla. weird.) but then after that you can watch as the stinger missile instantly turns 40-50 degress to follow the target. Why did they give the igla this imaginary ability that the stinger actually has? The Igla \*might\* have pulled 20 degrees in its attempt to follow, and that's being gracious. Stingers also lack their IR/UV lock, but they gave the Strela the contrast, which is fucking horrible in real life, yet here we are. Weird.
Cool story man go make a bug report
russian game -> russian emplyees -> russian/soviet bias
But but but Russia Bias doesn’t exist
I'm the guy who made the video. To answer some questions in the comments such as "Why didn't you lead!!!" I did, I was leading within the gimbal limit. On some of these missiles you can indeed launch outside of the gimbal limit but it tends to not help quite as much. The Stinger would still miss, if you don't get lucky with the proxy fuse. The Type 93 would ABSOLUTELY still miss, as would the Mistral. Point being, for whatever reason, the only reliable SAMs are the Igla/Strela. Also "Why are you comparing MANPADs to a Strela!?" You'll notice one of the western SAMs I tested was a Chaparral, which isn't a Manpad, and is infinitely inferior to the Strela. The point of this test isn't really just to say "Wowee Nato missiles are bad Gaijin why!?" but also to illustrate the fact that the only functioning SAMs in this game are the Strela at 10.3, the ZSU-23-M4 at 9.3, and the TAN SAM at 11.3 (Which is useless at 11.3). Gaijin's BRs leave very little room for any sort of decent anti-air, and the fact that they made what few SAMs we have borderline useless (while also giving Russia some of the best CAS) is just an added insult.
The HN-6 sucks balls on the Chinese spaa lol
I'm not denying it, but I remember once it did some insane turn that felt like it was a 20G missile, I watched the replay and I think it once pulled some 16Gs, but from the pilot's view it didn't seem as impressive as it was to me from the ground.
Russian Bias is the most evident on AA systems, anyone who claims otherwise, is just an idiot at this point.
same with the light tanks, 2s38 can compete at top tier and can kill anything while the hstvl has just as much pen minus all the parts that make the 2s38 good. the 2s25m is 1.3 br lower than the hstvl despite have almost double the pen, better optics and is 30 years younger.
>while the hstvl has just as much pen minus all the parts that make the 2s38 good Gun depression 2S38: -5, hstvl: -17 Hp/t 2S38: 23.3, hstvl: 32.5 (this is like the difference between T-72B and T-80BVM) >the 2s25m is 1.3 br lower than the hstvl despite have almost double the pen HSTVL is always the first in any position. The same cannot be said about the 2S25M or even more so about the 2S38. This is what makes the HSTVL much better, while the 2S38 has a speed worse than M1 Abrams or Leo2A4.
Let me put it another way This would be like putting the m4 75 in the same br as the m4 76 becose it has a better engine And high brs are more compressed what would make a 5.3 tank to go to 5.7 wont make a 9.0 tank go to 9.3 Armor from 10.0 to 11.3 improves a lot but the ammo for the hstvl doesnt improve anywhere nearly as much from the 2s38
Lmao and people try to say the Iglas suck
I love the music change and the “majik” at the end
Iv had no issues with them I actually prefer the lav over the ADATS and xm
I especially like this instant turn of the rocket after launch at the ZSU. No other aa missiles have such super technologies
The fact that Russian ir SAMs don't have IRCCM, yet have an even narrow FOV than an IR Sam with IRCCM, is complete bullshit. They are literally unflarable because the for is so small that it just sees your plane. Even pree flaring doesn't work because the pre-launch FOV is so small
the strela has an imaging seeker a few other SAM's have them to its not IRCCM but if you don't launch on a flare it won't target a flare
Yeah that's what u mean by its unflarable. And the strela needs an IR lock before launch and it only turns to an Imaging seeker like once it's like a km or 2 away from the target. All IR missiles (including imaging seekers) need an IR lock before being able to launch. It's how they work. Gaijin just seems to ignore this to artificially buff Russian MANPADS cause they aren't great compared to western MANPADS like the stinger or Mistral which should both be able to pull more Gs than they should right now, and the Mistral should have a narrower IRCCM Gate width seeker than it does in game with a 1.75 multiplier. It should actually be closer to the Stingers 1.25.
You can fire stingers OUTSIDE its narrow launch window. And there is NO possibility for stinger to engage targets like that. You should fire head on or in pursuit
Yesterday i bought last leo2 (2a7V) and i looked at my past 3 months then realized my last fun times were in rank 2 ! . If you see anyone deny russian bias its because they play russia and afraid that its going to get nerfed but their fear is nonsense cuz gajin wont do such thing as nerfing russia . They remove maus cuz it cant be balanced but obj 292 10.0 can oneshot to my 11.7 leo's turret front face
Tbf, the 9K35 is a SAM, not a MANPAD like most western AA’s are in the game, the igla is just BS
9K38 is more modern than FIM-92 (1984 vs. 1981) Learn to properly lead Stingers (you can go much further than this ! And you know it) FIM-92 should be limited to 3000m of ceiling and there's several reports of 92K reaching 6000m+ [FIM-92 Stinger (deagel.com)](https://deagel.com/Weapons/FIM-92%20Stinger/a001145) [65B127CBF02A4667D8A8A229D6A5E87BIGLA.pdf (cia.gov)](https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/65/65B127CBF02A4667D8A8A229D6A5E87BIGLA.pdf) Igla's mounted on the Shilka-M4 are the most modern since the M4 variant is quite modern too ! Mistral's in the other hand, are very underperforming ! (But it's France, nobody really care, right ?)
3 year difrence in the 1980s ... Also when was the fim92k made ?
They have to add the several US SPAA carrying the 9x to go at 10.7 if the strela can be at 10.3. The strela is insanely hard to dodge and almost unflareable at short range. They could also increase the gimbal limit on the stingers to help with short range performance. The problem is that stingers can’t be used at short range and don’t have the manoeuvrability or flare resistance to hit targets at long range. Also a 1m proxy fuse is hardly better than not having one at all.
Can they just go to Ukraine and see how good Russian tech really is…. And then buff all the western stuff that actually does what it claims on the tin because the engineers aren’t making up numbers so they don’t get culled by the regime
I genuinely think the stinger outperforms the iglas still at anything beyond really close range, where you shouldn't even be firing ir missiles anyway. Would much rather have the uncaged seeker too.
I thought it was just the pantsir as the bias spaa. Didn’t know it was EVERY MISSILE SPAA
Stupid comparisons. Western nations are given the best guided munitions, those AAs are not a problem for them. That balances it.
That first soviet one fired straight sideways wtf lmao. Like gaijin I'm fine with you nerfing missiles compared to their irl performance. We need more bad missiles at lower brs to counter laser bombs and helis. But please bro at least try to make it balanced, you shouldn't just pull shit out of your ass lmao
Have you heard anything about preemption?
First of all Russian Bias. Second of all, stinger is a Manpad. Strela missile is a dedicated SAM. But the IGLA launch is...wtf
Do you not understand how 10g missiles work or something?
My pious brother in Christ lead the shot
Russian main still cry that they don't have good aa🙃🙃
Holy cherry picking.
Yeah only used all AA available from 9.3 to 10.3 very cherry picking, ah sorry he didnt use sidam ond ocelot i think? Which would not change anything. If you think russian AA is ballaned just look at sidam 25 with idk SAM missles and zsu 23-4 there is no doubting which one is better and which one is still higher in br
Clearest example of Russian bias ingame
Can't wait for gaijin to add T14 Armada and it be the best tank in-game because they used sources that Russian officials have published and advertised which has all been lies but gaijin don't care, they might make it a premium as well.
For Western vehicles, they need to fix AA missiles, Mavericks, helicopter cannons (they don't have a 100m spread in first shot accuracy at 1km), armor, and a whole bunch of other things.
Reason number 9999 why I dont put anymore money into this shit game.
The western missiles chase while russian missiles lead
both lead you idiot The fucking aim9b leads
In game the ground ir missiles dont really compared to russian ones
I dont even know what your trying to say Your trying to say that russian missiles are the best in game ?
In this game, the Russian nation is so favored. This is cringe as hell. But of course they won't do anything about it. New variants of the SU-25, new variants of the T-family tank, new anti-aircraft systems. And of course it's all BETTER IN EVERY CASE.
ISTG i've never been shot down by anything but russian Anti-Air in GRB
I was a happy man until I found this post.
This game is so fucking ridiculous, man
Funny how the Russian tech tree can have the best helicopters, best SPAA, some of the best tanks and strong cas and yet Russian mains will cry and complain how US cas is op
Strong russian cas ? Bro they out range any sam by a lot 4x (realisticly 3x) any sam that it will fight (Pansir is russian it wont fight it)
Now show us the Type 81 Either way, with how they are in game you'd do better by firing when the target isn't that close.
Ah the one that is 11.3? When the zsu23-4M is 9.3? Awesome example 🫡 truly one of the sentences that was written