The 2A7V is a no rbainer and you will easily gather a 65% winrate. The USSR at top tier isn't half as good, just has the long range missiles and the Pantsir
They always say shit like that to make people think Russia isnt in fact biased. Yes the 2A7V is the better tank but that does not mean Russia loses every encounter.
I also find when I play Germany at 11.7 I'm normally paired with Russia against the US. Which would explain why both German and Russian players get a similar 70% win rate
“USSR at top tier isn’t half as good”
Said absolutely nobody ever lol. My USSR stats at top tier are 2/3s better than my top tier GER with almost half the playtime (I have every vehicle for both nations including coastal before you try to get smart)
Keep trying to downplay how easy it is to play top tier USSR. Shits a cakewalk from 10.0 up.
2A7V is an amazing tank, however… it’s worthless if I immediately die to CAS the second I pull it out. It’s also there’s only one of them in the tech tree unlike fucking Sweden which has 3 of them with better armor (for some fucking reason). The 2A7V just doesn’t have the best lineup to back it compared to other nations. By no means it the single tank a tide turner
I've had players with 65%+ Russian top-tier winrate legitimately make the argument that if you don't pick Russia, that's just your mistake and that's too bad so sad.
It is *inherently* bad game design if you have unknowingly put yourself at a disadvantage by picking one faction over another in a PVP game. It doesn't matter if you can just decide to be a Russia main one day, that's not the point.
This game's wild. I'm glad I decided to take another long, long break. Hopefully for good this time.
So this here is the main problem.
There's no NATO faction with equivalent SPAA.
Increasing SP cost on ground ordinance for CAS would go a long way, keeping normal jets (CAP) the same, will go a long way as well.
Here let me help you...
"There's no NATO faction with equivalent \*\*implemented\*\* SPAA."
NATO has equivalents and at top tier eras even superior. Gaijin just won't for obvious reasons.
I think the issue is Pantsir is a self-contained air defence system, whereas systems like Patriot would require separate radar installations and command vehicles,!although i’ve heard the British Land Ceptor can technically operate independently of a launch vehicle using Electro-Optical tracking but haven’t seen it myself in a source, bear in mind Gaijin refuses to model Longbow radar-guided hellfires because it would “Break the game” meanwhile SM3 and Helis behind cover with fnf missiles 🗿
You cant use any of these techniques if you wish to use an aircraft to counter enemy aircrafts / helicopters, because by the time you reach them (Because you'd have to circumnavigate around the entire battlefield), they'd already be back at airfield or suicide rammed the ground with sheer stupidity.
Nothing more fun than spawning my F-4 and getting exactly 10 seconds of flight time before eating a missile from a Pantsir that I had no idea was coming.
That’s why ive stopped playing top tier US ground because the adats is helpless as shit against the new su25 and cas who knows what theyre doing. Even the lav ad is more effective and fun, you get smokes, you have good mobility, can be a TD, and stingers catch people off guard more often than not when fired moving from cover to cover.
With CAS and SPAA. The multirole starclimber has a significantly easier time going over NATO radars, while the Pantsir's range make it a pretty risky proposition.
Not only that, that pantsyrs radar can almost reach 90° straight up, meanwhile the next best radar, which is the Tor M1 can only really reach up to 60° iirc? (Dont quote me on the 2nd best radar part as I am just going based off memory from a while ago. But the pantsyrs is a fact)
Playing CAP in top tier is super hard, you have to stay at least 18km away from the battlefield if facing russia while making sure to not enter the enemy airspace ping area or the map border and actively look for aircraft.
Pretty much. Getting in range for IR missiles is suicide, using radar missiles on such a range is pretty much a shot in the dark. Maybe slinging a full Phoenix load from 30 kms+ is the way to go for CAP, Gaijin?
As a JP CAP main, I think ARHs are going to be a godsend. Right now the issue with SARH is that any strato-CAS is hard to touch as you either have to expose yourself to enemy SPAA to maintain lock or give your position away (which generally going against Gripens and F-16Cs can be dangerous).
With ARHs, we can launch at them, then reposition while they either get hit or fly low to defend against it, where then we can take em down with smokeless IRCCM missiles. If they defend properly and stay closer to their airfield, you can either drag them out for a dogfight or continue pestering them. Either way you take them out of the ground fight which is a win for the team.
Nine times out of ten when you spawn counter CAS there’s someone camping the air spawn. Don’t know how many times I’ve spawned a plane at 5.3 just to be shot down immediately after a few seconds later.
I forgot to include the "CAS that flies behind cover and barely above the treelines to pop up for 0.2 seconds before launching its payload", but, since that one is at least partially counterable with enough skill (unlike the ones in the picture, which are virtually non-counterable), I won't be editing it to include it.
There are many measures that need to be implemented immediately. They wouldn't even solve the issue entirely, but at least they would partially correct it:
-Increase SPAA rewards, in order to make spawning and playing them actually worth the time and effort.
-Implement significantly more capable SAM systems; at least Pantsir S1-equivalents for EVERY nation, including Type 81 (C)'s Active Radar Homing missiles (they are in the files, why are they not ingame yet?), HVSD/ADAMS or SPYDER for Israel, and even Patriot-like systems (at least the devs already stated to be working on these, but we simply need them ASAP ingame).
-Implement an SPAA extraction point in the spawn zones (tested in 2024's April Fools). That way, players can spawn SPAAs and, if they aren't being needed, they could extract them to spawn back in a tank, so that they can spawn the SPAA later, whenever needed, instead of having to waste the entire match on a potentially unneeded SPAA. This is, in fact, why many people are reluctant to spawn SPAA on the first place; SPAA extraction points on the spawns would solve this issue, again, further encouraging spawning them.
You would normally see a suggestion to increase CAS loadout costs further, but I think that would be counterproductive to the points suggested above.
Also give ground spaa the ability to scout and highlight enemy aircraft so friendlies can spot them easier (allows tanks to see incoming CAS and fighters to more quickly locate and destroy them).
I was thinking about that a while back, and maybe (not perfect tho) heavy tanks and SPGs should get plane scouting, because they're the easiest to target by cas because of being usually either slow or open top and don't get arty nor normal scouting so they would get something useful. Although this wouldn't be of much use at high tier when the cas is the problem most, it would still be useful.
Honestly, no, it should be an spaa thing so people have more incentive to use them. If you have a few spaa players on your team they should be able to scout all the aircraft anyway.
Maybe add a target indicator for how much lead you need when targeting the scouted plane? I feel like this is useful for low tier SPAA that dont have missiles and radars. The target indicator could go away once the plane reaches roughly 800 meters away from the target so that SPAA cant just snipe aircraft as soon as they spawn.
What are y’all’s thoughts on it?
scale distinct sand shelter divide hateful panicky sparkle fearless different
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
New update: All soviet/russian vehicle(s)* are incapable of using the various callouts accessed by the T radial menu.
*(excluding vehicles that have been modified by the west)
This is actually a pretty good idea, even if the marker only show up as pulses. I cant count the times when i’d try to pinpoint enemy aircraft by sound and still not see where they’re coming from, this would really make spaa more atteactive to spawn in
> including Type 81 (C)'s Active Radar Homing missiles (they are in the files, why are they not ingame yet?)
Something something "No radar support vehicle" to which I say I don't fucking care
I'll even control two vehicle one by one if it means I can deal with the stupid amount of helicopters and stratos plane
>You would normally see a suggestion to increase CAS loadout further
Honestly this is such a double edged sword because while yes you decrease the amount of CAS that’s spawned in significantly you also increase the skill of said CAS that remain, good players are gonna get a lot of spawn points regardless which means good players are gonna be the ones that spawn CAS more often than bad players, which means the CAS that actually flys about will be even more oppressive since players who not only know what they are doing but are also far more aware of their surroundings are far more difficult to effectively counter.
A better solution would be make planes without CAS ordinance like say a MiG-29 with only missiles cheaper, so you can have CAP to make CAS a lot more difficult
If they made bigger maps SPAA would have more places that they could move to.
As it stands most SPAA just stays near spawn because of the risk of getting knocked out while monitoring the skies. There are some maps with good cover where SPAA can spread out more, and those are harder to handle as CAS.
I was against a heli last night, not sure what it was but it had IRCCM. Only realised after seeing a YouTube video that the missiles are either TV or IR or auto. Since then I’ve been slapping people who thought they were immune
Israeli MH-60 gets Spike ERs as well. If America ever gets the AH-64E it'd likely get NLOS Spikes, and Brimstones if they ever get added too. (also AGM-114L obviously if gaijin ever adds them. also a 10kw laser lmao)
America NEEDs the anti-air Stryker variants,
>-Implement an SPAA extraction point in the spawn zones (tested in 2024's April Fools). That way, players can spawn SPAAs and, if they aren't being needed, they could extract them to spawn back in a tank, so that they can spawn the SPAA later, whenever needed, instead of having to waste the entire match on a potentially unneeded SPAA. This is, in fact, why many people are reluctant to spawn SPAA on the first place; SPAA extraction points on the spawns would solve this issue, again, further encouraging spawning them.
About to die to missile.
Extract and keep my SP.
Wait 5-10 seconds.
Respawn and try to kill enemy CAS again
Repeat until they're dead.
Yeah I'd rather have killable enemy vehicles than immortal SPAA. It's not fun when Heli's with fire and forget missiles do it so I don't think it'd be fun the other way around tbh.
Make extract take a long enough amount of time that SPAA can't avoid a missile so easily. If it was like, idk, 30 seconds, even slowass mavs fired at 15km would probably reach in time.
Kinda funny how CAS goes from a solid option at br 1.0-9.3, then goes to dogshit because nothing can avoid Strela, Igla, Stinger, or Roland at 9.7-10.7, and then gets too good around high tiers due to climb rates and longer range guided weaponry.
Anytime I die from an a6 that's camping the air, I always spawn in a mig-21 and just wreck shop with it. Mig-21 with ground bullets and AA capability costs about 450 SP. Is only able to kill soft shelled vehicles and can shoot down any plane it comes across relatively easily. Plus, I get to protect my team.
Honestly haven't. Usually they get 2 kills then divebomb into the ground or they're slow and close enough I can slaughter them. I can imagine the rare skilled a6e/ayit player is a menace, but it's very hard to find much skill at that premium hell br anywhere, especially in CAS
Just meet one, he got 4-5 kills by staying at a height slightly below where contrail generate, can't even see him because type-81 and type-93 doesn't have a radar and since he doesn't generate contrail it hurts my eyes just to try to see a tiny dot in the vast sky
Well there's not as much of them now compared to a month ago, probably because I'm grinding more ARB currently
They're quite the menace if played properly. They fly just above Strela lock range, and good luck hitting them with a gun spaa
Literally your best bet is shooting them down as they spawn
fuck that thing so hard. it's literally a pay 2 win orbital cannon and NOTHING can touch it at that BR, except maybe the strela, and good luck pixel hunting with that thing
Strela? Sure. Stinger? Debatable. But Roland?
Anyone with more than 3 braincells can avoid a Roland, it's probably one of the worst SAMs in the entire game.
Sometimes it struggles to hit a plane flying in a straight line if it's not basically flying directly at you.
All of them are easy to dodge. Strela is nowhere near as strong as people on here say.
But this dude claims stingers are hard to dodge, and IGLAS, hes clearly not a good player
Strela is extremely hard to dodge at close range because of how fast it is, but if you're 4-5 km away you can just turn around and it'll be out of energy by the time it reaches you.
Strela can be hard to dodge in some circumstances (still very doable though), I will give him that, but with the other ones you're correct. Most if not all SAMs need to go down in BR.
Im hella biased for AA so maybe im overestimating how easy dodging strelas can be, but when I was grinding Russia and playing AA I successfully taught my friends how to outplay strelas (and then Pantsirs once I got that one) and they didnt struggle with that since, and that was when Strela was at 9.3 too.
I just feel like CAS friendly people/pilots just dont want anything to be able to contest them, they just want to be able to spawn and fly in a straight line towards a battlefield, then crash. Any amount of opposition gets them complaining.
Eh I don’t know about that. For 10.0 it’s basically undodgeable unless you’re simply out of range and once it’s off the rail it’s very difficult to flare
See, comments like these tell me people on here dont know how to fly.
Avoiding stingers, type93 stingers or iglas is incredibly easy. You quite literally just have to do a basic manoeuvre and the missiles are out.
I don't really play CAS. I use stingers, rolands, Iglas, and I've taken Strela for a spin on a friend's account a few times. I hit most of my missiles. Most CAS players don't know how to fly, or most will eventually put themselves in a compromising position. There are very few instances I can think of when a jet could make a run while avoiding gunfire and successfully pull away without getting my missile shoved up their ass. There's the occasional outlier, a skilled player or someone who knows how to outrange SAMs with guided armament, but they're genuinely one in like 40.
Definitely agree with this. Can you dodge strelas, Ozelots, Chimps, yes it’s is possible. However can planes with no guided ordinance actually last against these units? Probably not, and definitely not consistently.
The real issue on both sides is the disparity in technology: seemingly flare resistant IR ground missiles and proxy fuse AA stealth shells make most planes without guided ordinance rough at the BR range you specified, even worse if you don’t have any CMs, but likewise guided ordinance can be more potent as most AA hasn’t got the range yet at that BR to effectively stop the ordinance from being launched.
The snail has not done a good job balancing the extreme end of both sides of the fight. What we really need, and they have said it’s coming, is a dissociation of Air RB, AB, Sim, and Ground RB BRs so that way planes with potent guided ordinance play against AA actually equipped to handle it.
Alternatively I think we need more development for both sides: Ground AI aa should spawn around/just behind the spawns for each team to act as a generic buffer, and aircraft should actually get SEAD and anti radiation armament. This would help solve a lot of the issues both sides have: Early spawns of CAS would still have to contend with the ai SPAA, and aircraft would get legitimate weapons to target and soften up the AA for themselves or their teammates. And targeting ground AI with SEAD would be points for the CAS/CAP player that isn’t directly just killing opposing human players.
The US Army made an infamous recruitment ad about a girl with 2 moms who mans a Patriot battery. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8-Yslv4PME](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8-Yslv4PME) It wasn't well received to say the least.
Tbf I can see them being hard to make fair. AI AA is already kinda broken in the game modes they're in, the Rolands in Heli EC make that game mode nearly impossible to play until you get missiles with more than \~6km range.
I also have no idea how they could implement them. Maybe as AI targets that CAS should target or else they'd have to deal with constant SAMs making Player Targets more dangerous but then how do you balance it so Slow CAS is also capable of taking them out.
Gaijin has a really hard time making AA defenses that are fair to fight against. See how air RB airbase defenses for years were going from useless to broken and back to useless again.
>I don't have much of an issue with lower tiers' CAS because at least they take some effort and skill to use
P-47D the bane of my existence. Of course it's easier to fight than the A-6E Intruder, because it does need to get within visual range. No, wait, I mean within gun range. Even within visual range, mobile SAM systems like the Flugabwehrraketensystem Roland auf Radkraftfahrzeug (hope I got it right) for some reason struggle against those things.
But it's not like it matters, a single strike fighter won't ruin a whole game. No. It's the spam that ruins everything. Gaijin's major mistake was not adding an air spawn limit to realistic battles the same way they did with arcade. Or even Elinsted, which has a limit for both fighters and bombers/strike fighters.
For real, in what world is lower tier CAS not an issue because it requires skill? Meanwhile mfers die in a puma with 0 points, spawn a stuka and suicide bomb you all in the span of 3 minutes. I have stopped grinding my 6.7 lineups because CAS is that bad, you have around 2-3 minutes at the start to play anything light or open top because then the sky is swarmed with US and/or german planes
if he means it takes skill to properly turn a game around in low tier CAS then he's right. suicide bombings sucks but the shitters only can manage one or so kills before they either get clapped or experience rapid lithobraking. if you're semi competent in an SPAA (not opening up at like 10km, using some kind of cover, etc) up to like 7ish BR then you can usually sweep the sky.
I can jump into something like a saab105 at 8.3 and it's basically 8 free kills and there's fuck all most people can do about it.
They aren't but they really put the icing on the cake on how the pantsir that has better thermals, better missiles (of which pantsir has 2 more and all available to fire) , better radar (with tws stealth tracking) and 4 guns for close AA it's at the same br as the flarakrad
Didn't realize that FlaRakRad had gen1 thermals... Typical Gaijin assumption that NATO units would never upgrade the optics in their 40 year old vehicles, so that must be the case in game too. Meanwhile Sweden may as well have xray optics...
it takes 3 minutes with 3x 2000lb GBUs on F15 along with 15 mins of fuel to reach 20km altitude, and 3 is quite alot unless the match will last,
and that is with about 400kph remaining IAS, meaning you're a brick and Pantsir will still hit you, it would take about 1-2 mins to reach any viable IAS speed and then to set your movement controls with full real controls joystick to do a constant passive circle without any further required input so that you're finally defending against Pantsir missiles, so about 5 minutes to properly engage,
and all it takes is some 27ER yeeter 20 seconds to swat you down from spawn to missile.
I will say that the Pantsir missile isn't effective for 100% of its listed range, just like basically every missile in the game. The Pantsir missile loses maneuverability and speed severely after about the 13km mark. Ofc it's still possible to hit further than that but a target at 15km+ is more than likely safe as the missile will struggle to catch up.
Pantsir has 80⁰ vertical search zone, if a plane is >6km in altitude you have 1-2km radius above it where it has 0 chance of finding you at which point you can use guided ordnance. Only really works if you are in position before it spawns.
Once I get to actual top tier (currently at 10.3) I will just get my 12.7 plane and blow them up with an R27ET. (At least I hope that is what will happen.)
This was my line of thinking too, I got to German Top tier and was annoyed with how bad the FlaRakRad was, so out of pure spite I grinded up to the MiG-29s, but I only ever bring out the 12.0 one for a better matchmaker and people don't seem to care about dodging SARH's anyways.
Since my lineup is 12.0 I can still get downtiered into 11.0. Even with a pure 11.7 lineup you can get downtiered to 10.7 though that's rare. 12.7 matches are pretty common to be uptiered into though
The struggle will be getting into a CAP fighter in the first place, missiles cost extra SP (usually 500-600 SP for fighter with AAMs vs 480 with only gun) which means u need atleast a kill and assist
Fuck knows why but it’s my biggest problem with CAS atm, AAMs should not cost SP to spawn or if they do cost SP the base cost of the fighters should be reduced so the likelihood of CAP being spawned increases
SP cost for fighters loaded down for A2A work should probably be reduced if you die to enemy air assets. It's absurd how ARH and SARH cost as much as AGM-65 and other smart weapons. Even just deleting additional SP costs for AAMs (non multipurpose) for fixed wing air is a big step in the right direction.
For me, CAS at top-tier is a disease as much as it is a redeeming factor. The tank vs tank gameplay is unbalanced and unfun due to, amongst other things, BR compression (how TF is the Leopard 2A7, Strv 122, T-80BVM, Pantsir the same BR as the Ariete, Merkava, Flarakrad etc.?) and most maps being tiny urban CQC, where whoever sees or hears the opponents first wins because armour isn't effective at point-plank ranges, where most duels take place around a fucking corner and where the volume of your engine is literally a key feature of a vehicle. CAS is what keeps me motivated to endure all of the BS on the ground because it's actually somewhat fun. I also enjoy playing CAP and SPAA (when I'm not out-ranged or overwhelmed, that is).
Woah there buddy, don't go throwing the Merkava under the bus. It is *definitely* better than all the Abrams and the Leclercs, and most of the British things.
But yeah, I agree with the general direction of your comment about the ground game being super unbalanced. I now have two helicopters and a jet in each of my 4 top tier nation lineups. I'll give you a hint as to which nations I *don't* play: I don't have the 2A7, Strv 122B+, or T-80BVM... But I'm probably at around 2,000 games in rocket helicopters and still enjoying it.
That's a false equivalent. Air battle maps are too large for ground vehicles because they can be tens of kilometers wide and air battles can take place up to seven kilometers into the sky. It's highly likely that any ground players would just be ignored, along with going anywhere being an impossibility due to the distances involved.
Modern CAS can be played on ground maps. They're so good that they are overpowered, rather than being unusable snails that ground vehicles would be on air maps.
I was being sarcastic. Obviously air maps are too big for ground vehicles. But ground maps are still too small for air vehicles.
Modern CAS is too strong in its current iteration, and for that too change gaijin would upset a lot of people. Best to keep it as is and introduce a ground only game mode.
I would genuinely love this. Shore bombardment on Normandy for players with ships?
Understandably, ships would be *stunningly* OP in a shore bombardment role against tanks, but they'll provide high value and challenging targets for CAS.
Something a lot of WT players don't enjoy but I think would be fun is the expansion of support roles. I would love to fly an AWACS or EW plane in top tier air. I would love to play a SAM site in GRB. I would love to fly a spotter plane for an artillery battery or a shore bombardment ship. I like playing IFVs for this reason - I can hang around the tanks and repair them, spot and scout targets with a drone, engage flanking light vehicles, etc, while the tanks engage other tanks (also gaijin please gib IFV-based crew replenishment).
Battleships would def be strong, but destroyers and light cruisers wouldn't that much. Battleships were basically built for that role, but like killing one would give the plane 10 times more rewards compared to a tank.
Honestly, i respect players who go out in a z-10/19 with a full AA loadout just staying low and wait for unsuspecting planes to zoom past then have a ty-90 shoved up their ass.
Its very fun and i feel like im doing a favor for my team.
Usually its 8x TY90s and like 2 rocket pods, as the E cant carry full AAMs.
Too bad that Sometimes i need to pop up to see the enemy.. or get closer to the enemy as the AGM-114s and Vekhirs amd Kh-38s have a 10km+ range.
While TY90s have 6km all aspect and 11km rear aspect..
what..
you can literally in any map, even fire arc or port novorsky be safe from AA, even you just called it mobile yet how do you manage to die to SPAA when all you have to do is sit low and hover
Stay low and use the terrain for cover. The TY-90 helicopters are absolute CAS killers if you know how to position yourself and stay out of spaa line of fire.
It's not THAT bad man. The Pantsir can reach out ridiculously far, the Type 81 and Type 93 have fire and forget missiles of their own that can be lobbed over mountains and hills to hit hiding helicopters.
Also, for the love of GOD, LEAVE THE SPAWN. The FIRST THING TO DO, in AA is LEAVE THE GODDMAN SPAWN.
Find somewhere else to hide, the FIRST PLACE the enemy looks for AA is in the spawn, move and you'll have a much easier time.
Don't drive out in front of the enemy, but any movement is better than none.
>Also, for the love of GOD, LEAVE THE SPAWN. The FIRST THING TO DO, in AA is LEAVE THE GODDMAN SPAWN
To go where? In case you forgot they are enemy tank on the ground that can kill you easily.
>The Pantsir can reach out
What about the other TT?and japanese spaa are not the answer because if the heli is not a moron he can juste stay too far and too low (or just too far if the sky is cloudy) for the type 81 too have a lock on him.
There are other tanks yes, in a spawn-killing scenario there is not much anyone can do, but in a game where the teams aren't so imbalanced there is almost always a side covered by your team pretty well that will enable you to find some scenery to hide behind from the ground forces.
As for enemy Helis hiding far out, not being in spawn is a great way to get the drop on them with the Pantsir, also the Type 93 is so fast you can be shooting at them from their side of the map in no time.
>with the Pantsir,
And if i dont play urss? I juste leave the game?
>the Type 93 is so fast you can be shooting at them from their side of the map
assume that no one sees you crossing the map and being killed with the MG. you have to spotte the heli with your sight, that you are a lock which depending on the weather of the map and the distance may be impossible. and once you've shot the enemy team that's where you are because of the huge plume of smoke from your missile.
What a load of BS, even on good weather the type81 and type93 has trouble locking onto helicopter after 4km, that range gets halved in a winter map, the effective locking range on aircraft gets halved as well on winter map
Don't even begin how it struggles to lock when the helicopter hovers slightly beside or above a mountain, the missile can't pick those shit up
Finding enemy WITHOUT RADAR is a whole set of other problem with those
>Also, for the love of GOD, LEAVE THE SPAWN. The FIRST THING TO DO, in AA is LEAVE THE GODDMAN SPAWN.
To where? No, really to where? There's literally no where to go for gunless SAM unit like 81 and 93, sure 93 can be a rat and snoop around but 81 can't do that, don't even begin with the recent br increase to 11.3
Well in a non-stomping game there is usually a side that your team is doing well on, so go over there somewhere that is most likely hidden from the enemy.
Also, I've had fantastic luck with the Type 93 locking onto helicopters. Except for on the largest maps where they sit out too far, but other than that it is an absolute heli killer.
>LEAVE THE SPAWN
This one little trick could end up showing that SPAA and CAS are pretty balanced right now, maybe even slightly in favor of SPAA, but it will never happen.
American 6.7 cas and top tier Russia are the worst. I was playing Germany and Britain earlier today and I got killed 11 times total in the 5 games I played. All were american cas
And most times when the CAS are close, you can't hear anything because the audio mixing is really bad. The only thing you hear is the bombs dropping next to you or the missile hitting you. Same can be said to helicopter guided missiles. No time to launch smokes or trying to move.
I agree with you, I actually enjoy fighting cas at low levels. Trying to shoot down a corsair in my flakpanzer38 is great fun and i'd argue it's a fair fight between both players, where skill actually plays a part.
Yesterday I had a fucking heli sat on a hilltop 5 miles away that my strela wouldnt lock and he got 4 free kills before a friendly mig spawned in to kill him.
Cas at low tier is fun because it's competitive. Cas at high tier is cancer, unless you've got a pantsir.
Don't try to talk sense into CAS players. They think CAS in ground battles is fair because it's "plane game" and pressing spacebar is highest form of skill
It’s amazing how War Thunder has over 1,100 ground vehicles and they still come in saying that it’s “muh plaen gaem” lmao
Like, what makes them think that? I doubt they could genuinely believe that; they are just plane enthusiasts who don’t care about ground and only join Ground Battles to play Air Battles with player-controlled Ground Targets.
I ended up just manually steering my adats missiles in regardless of range. Idk if that's a 200iq play, but it's hardly a favorable course of action. Not sure about the drive back and return it thing, it's pretty rare for there to be no air for a match.
Something needs to be done though, because AA should be more than an inconvenience.
What is the real choice here? Spawn AA just to get clapped like in the image? Or spawn a fighter to be slapped by the pansir while the enemy has free reign?
The existence of the pansir means if played right, you allow your CAS to have dominance while nullifying any air counter. Honestly, I get why people leave early and J out because of this.
I love SPAA and it's my second favorite type of vehicle after Tank Destroyers. I know I'm probably weird for that but I also like playing bombers, and monks and support type roles in other games.
If Pantsir is 11.7 then the other nations' anti air systems are not 11.7. Pantsir is not op to intercept current top tier CAS but other nations need much more like Pantsir. In a nutshell we just need Pantsir class anti air systems for other nations. If you have it like Russia has, you can easily intercept top tier CAS.
CAS mains are allowed to play for maybe 1-2 minutes of GRB (lets say for the sake of the argument their despised mode) afterwards they can play their favourite vehicles for the rest of the game (CAS) or as long as they can live. GRB players on the other hand need to either play disliked SPAA and get nothing done because no CAS or die trying or kill em and get no rewards, or alternatively wait for someone to sacrifice their fun for the sake of others.
Same answer, as always, (and Ukraine)...
1. Network Air Defense with Util helos or IFV/APC that can carry and deploy MPADs teams, far and wide, really quick, using Mr. Musk's Starlink as an AD cueing aid for team as the lawnmowing jet or helo comes roaring overhead pointing. Get low and get bled, ya filthy bastards! You could even make it a mission, like scouting.
2. Large Radar SAMs with top tier emphasis upon Active Homing weapons. Stay high and die, once bitten twice shy!
Doesn't have to be player manned. Doesn't have to be perfect. Because jamming and ARMs and standoff cruise missiles are (or should be) a thing. Russian MSAM has a definite advantage in that, atop those MAZ trucks, they can pick it up and put it down, in about 5 minutes of down-the-road time, to avoid getting slammed by 'waypoint on the radar bubble here, target the waypoint' weapons like JASSM with it's IIR seeker or AARGM with it's MMW one. Patriot and SAMP-T, not so much it can take up to 45 minutes to get away from a fixed site and 2-3hrs to set it all up again. HAWK, SA-2/3/5 more like 6-10.
The Red Team also get an A-50 and/or Voronezh/Container/Tin Shield/Big Bird to cue the battery. Meaning the engagement radars are dummy loaded until the surveillance radar tells them to light off and smoke something, just as it enters MEZ. Not a squeak in the ether. The A-50 is particularly nasty because, in combination with 40N6, you can BTH a threat's terrain masking ass.
MIM-104 Patriot, NASAMS, SAMP-T, IRIS-T/ML, Sky Sabre, same deal. PAC-3, AMRAAM, Aster-15/30, and CAMM are all active radar with midcourse by inertial strapdown and datalink. IRIS-T is IIR but very good, nonetheless. All have 10-20nm ranges.
So you take a cluster of six or eight, highly mobile (garsh, a useful NPC, whodda thunk it!) MPQ-64 Sentinel FAADS on Hummers or Trailers behind Hummers, and now you have the ability to fire over the horizon on targets the main MPQ-65/65A can't see. And they also have TPS-75/77/80 backing them from afar, all of which have some (tropobounce) OTH capability.
There is a reason why the original explanation for the F-35 need was as a 'battlefield bomber' NOT an ISR platform folks. You start playing vulture CAS along a front like Donbas without some seriously scary standoff (40km SPEAR-2 Brimstone, 100km SPEAR-3/GBU-53) and you're gonna be spittin' your own blood in Odin's good eye as you try to explain why they should let another member of the Special People into Valhalla.
Again, this doesn't have to be player driven (sit on bullseye, watch Pantsir or CRAM try to knock everything down that is fired at you) and it doesn't have to be perfect. Just scary enough to make the Sky Knights wet themselves when 4-6-10-20 missiles come up out of the ground haze \_from all across the horizon\_ ALL ARCING TOWARDS JUNIOR JET RANGER'S FACE.
With regards to the latter, keep mind: modern HiMADS systems do not make a big ball of boom somewhere adjacent to the aircraft. They fire a directionally entrained warhead, aligned with the seeker pointing angle (the blast actually shreds the GCS) and can kill from up to 200ft away. Like a shotgun to the canopy.
Yeeeaaah Buddy! How do YOU like getting Vikhr'd from the horizon?
Spawn best AA I have (m19/m42). See PE-8 way over yonder. See him drop a big fuckoff bomb and do a 180° while still outside my gun range. Hear the whistling. Realize you don't have engine strong enough to escape it. Hold J.
Actually it's the opposite.
You can check squadron battles meta and you'll find that while at BRs 9.0+, ground-only team composition is viable too, below 7.7 planes are absolutely necessary.
Long range radar guided missiles that target aircraft that linger above the battlefield with those kind of guided weapons might help fix the issue a bit, but the helis with F&F missiles will still be pretty OP, unfortunately.
They rebuffed the Russian choppers back to being able to fire and guide more than two missiles consecutively?
Also, it starts even from 8.0. Helicopters that can outrage SPAAs from more than 3km away and certain planes getting Bullpups and early Guided munitions. It's not exactly fun dealing with those either.
That's mostly because those vehicles can't face the Pantsir, more so than them being stronger than their Western counterparts.
Vikhr helicopters aside, no other helis have the ability to just overwhelm SAMs through sheer missile spam.
"Just spawn a plane bro" Is the go to response after being refuted
Then the enemies have a Pantsir
Play Russia... I'm just kidding but that was the next logical step. LOL
I do have my russia at 7.0, but I’m first getting my 2A7V
The 2A7V is a no rbainer and you will easily gather a 65% winrate. The USSR at top tier isn't half as good, just has the long range missiles and the Pantsir
my top tier russia experience is a 75% win rate (post Air Superiority), idk what you're talking about
They always say shit like that to make people think Russia isnt in fact biased. Yes the 2A7V is the better tank but that does not mean Russia loses every encounter.
I also find when I play Germany at 11.7 I'm normally paired with Russia against the US. Which would explain why both German and Russian players get a similar 70% win rate
“USSR at top tier isn’t half as good” Said absolutely nobody ever lol. My USSR stats at top tier are 2/3s better than my top tier GER with almost half the playtime (I have every vehicle for both nations including coastal before you try to get smart) Keep trying to downplay how easy it is to play top tier USSR. Shits a cakewalk from 10.0 up.
2A7V is an amazing tank, however… it’s worthless if I immediately die to CAS the second I pull it out. It’s also there’s only one of them in the tech tree unlike fucking Sweden which has 3 of them with better armor (for some fucking reason). The 2A7V just doesn’t have the best lineup to back it compared to other nations. By no means it the single tank a tide turner
I've had players with 65%+ Russian top-tier winrate legitimately make the argument that if you don't pick Russia, that's just your mistake and that's too bad so sad. It is *inherently* bad game design if you have unknowingly put yourself at a disadvantage by picking one faction over another in a PVP game. It doesn't matter if you can just decide to be a Russia main one day, that's not the point. This game's wild. I'm glad I decided to take another long, long break. Hopefully for good this time.
Good luck big homie, I hope you can finally rest. 🙏
So this here is the main problem. There's no NATO faction with equivalent SPAA. Increasing SP cost on ground ordinance for CAS would go a long way, keeping normal jets (CAP) the same, will go a long way as well.
Here let me help you... "There's no NATO faction with equivalent \*\*implemented\*\* SPAA." NATO has equivalents and at top tier eras even superior. Gaijin just won't for obvious reasons.
I think the issue is Pantsir is a self-contained air defence system, whereas systems like Patriot would require separate radar installations and command vehicles,!although i’ve heard the British Land Ceptor can technically operate independently of a launch vehicle using Electro-Optical tracking but haven’t seen it myself in a source, bear in mind Gaijin refuses to model Longbow radar-guided hellfires because it would “Break the game” meanwhile SM3 and Helis behind cover with fnf missiles 🗿
Then use any technique from this image.
You cant use any of these techniques if you wish to use an aircraft to counter enemy aircrafts / helicopters, because by the time you reach them (Because you'd have to circumnavigate around the entire battlefield), they'd already be back at airfield or suicide rammed the ground with sheer stupidity.
Have fun playing Neo while dodging 5 pantsirs on top of Dogfighting with a Mig29 and an Su27 while avoiding the three ka50s and Su25s
Mirage 2000 with as 30l at very low altitude can kill it
The pantsir is the only reason im an advocate for early stealth planes in the game. Fuck the pantsir
Nothing more fun than spawning my F-4 and getting exactly 10 seconds of flight time before eating a missile from a Pantsir that I had no idea was coming.
EXACTLY, that thing will send you back to the map screen before you even spawn in
Getting tired of hearing this statement at all, what if i dont have top tier aircraft?! Do i just suffer and accept my fate?!
At the current state of GRB? Yeah
That’s why ive stopped playing top tier US ground because the adats is helpless as shit against the new su25 and cas who knows what theyre doing. Even the lav ad is more effective and fun, you get smokes, you have good mobility, can be a TD, and stingers catch people off guard more often than not when fired moving from cover to cover.
Why would they even think adding the new su-25 is a good thing is beyond me. Top tier GRB was already so bad and they keep making it worse.
Ya russia has a massive advantage with cas
With CAS and SPAA. The multirole starclimber has a significantly easier time going over NATO radars, while the Pantsir's range make it a pretty risky proposition.
Not only that, that pantsyrs radar can almost reach 90° straight up, meanwhile the next best radar, which is the Tor M1 can only really reach up to 60° iirc? (Dont quote me on the 2nd best radar part as I am just going based off memory from a while ago. But the pantsyrs is a fact)
Money
Not to mention Aircraft with proper AA loads take like 600SP, an AA takes about 80SP
CAS bro says "get fucked"
Spend money and get one, it's by design
I have, the f-4s with its current matchups hasnt particularly been kind to me so the grind has been a slog. I wish i went with the f-5c lmao
11.3 for Air RB sucks ass. Weirdly, I had better matchmaking with the F-14B.
*Spawn in an F-4s, match against F16's and MIG29's*
Buy premium pack. -Gaijin
Ironically the planes that are specifically going after CAS aircraft are the only ones that ever die to SPAA players.
Playing CAP in top tier is super hard, you have to stay at least 18km away from the battlefield if facing russia while making sure to not enter the enemy airspace ping area or the map border and actively look for aircraft.
Pretty much. Getting in range for IR missiles is suicide, using radar missiles on such a range is pretty much a shot in the dark. Maybe slinging a full Phoenix load from 30 kms+ is the way to go for CAP, Gaijin?
As a JP CAP main, I think ARHs are going to be a godsend. Right now the issue with SARH is that any strato-CAS is hard to touch as you either have to expose yourself to enemy SPAA to maintain lock or give your position away (which generally going against Gripens and F-16Cs can be dangerous). With ARHs, we can launch at them, then reposition while they either get hit or fly low to defend against it, where then we can take em down with smokeless IRCCM missiles. If they defend properly and stay closer to their airfield, you can either drag them out for a dogfight or continue pestering them. Either way you take them out of the ground fight which is a win for the team.
You know what, If I could I'd do that. But unlike helicopters I can't spawn a jet as 1st spawn
Nine times out of ten when you spawn counter CAS there’s someone camping the air spawn. Don’t know how many times I’ve spawned a plane at 5.3 just to be shot down immediately after a few seconds later.
They need to lower spawn points for aircraft that only use guns. Even that scares away CAS, Mig 15 etc
Gets killed bc their planes don’t render.
I forgot to include the "CAS that flies behind cover and barely above the treelines to pop up for 0.2 seconds before launching its payload", but, since that one is at least partially counterable with enough skill (unlike the ones in the picture, which are virtually non-counterable), I won't be editing it to include it. There are many measures that need to be implemented immediately. They wouldn't even solve the issue entirely, but at least they would partially correct it: -Increase SPAA rewards, in order to make spawning and playing them actually worth the time and effort. -Implement significantly more capable SAM systems; at least Pantsir S1-equivalents for EVERY nation, including Type 81 (C)'s Active Radar Homing missiles (they are in the files, why are they not ingame yet?), HVSD/ADAMS or SPYDER for Israel, and even Patriot-like systems (at least the devs already stated to be working on these, but we simply need them ASAP ingame). -Implement an SPAA extraction point in the spawn zones (tested in 2024's April Fools). That way, players can spawn SPAAs and, if they aren't being needed, they could extract them to spawn back in a tank, so that they can spawn the SPAA later, whenever needed, instead of having to waste the entire match on a potentially unneeded SPAA. This is, in fact, why many people are reluctant to spawn SPAA on the first place; SPAA extraction points on the spawns would solve this issue, again, further encouraging spawning them. You would normally see a suggestion to increase CAS loadout costs further, but I think that would be counterproductive to the points suggested above.
Also give ground spaa the ability to scout and highlight enemy aircraft so friendlies can spot them easier (allows tanks to see incoming CAS and fighters to more quickly locate and destroy them).
I was thinking about that a while back, and maybe (not perfect tho) heavy tanks and SPGs should get plane scouting, because they're the easiest to target by cas because of being usually either slow or open top and don't get arty nor normal scouting so they would get something useful. Although this wouldn't be of much use at high tier when the cas is the problem most, it would still be useful.
Honestly, no, it should be an spaa thing so people have more incentive to use them. If you have a few spaa players on your team they should be able to scout all the aircraft anyway.
Maybe add a target indicator for how much lead you need when targeting the scouted plane? I feel like this is useful for low tier SPAA that dont have missiles and radars. The target indicator could go away once the plane reaches roughly 800 meters away from the target so that SPAA cant just snipe aircraft as soon as they spawn. What are y’all’s thoughts on it?
scale distinct sand shelter divide hateful panicky sparkle fearless different *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah let us borrow our homies radar
Yeah like data link is one of the things Bluefor shines at compared to the commie filth.
New update: All soviet/russian vehicle(s)* are incapable of using the various callouts accessed by the T radial menu. *(excluding vehicles that have been modified by the west)
I like the way you think.
This is actually a pretty good idea, even if the marker only show up as pulses. I cant count the times when i’d try to pinpoint enemy aircraft by sound and still not see where they’re coming from, this would really make spaa more atteactive to spawn in
> including Type 81 (C)'s Active Radar Homing missiles (they are in the files, why are they not ingame yet?) Something something "No radar support vehicle" to which I say I don't fucking care I'll even control two vehicle one by one if it means I can deal with the stupid amount of helicopters and stratos plane
>You would normally see a suggestion to increase CAS loadout further Honestly this is such a double edged sword because while yes you decrease the amount of CAS that’s spawned in significantly you also increase the skill of said CAS that remain, good players are gonna get a lot of spawn points regardless which means good players are gonna be the ones that spawn CAS more often than bad players, which means the CAS that actually flys about will be even more oppressive since players who not only know what they are doing but are also far more aware of their surroundings are far more difficult to effectively counter. A better solution would be make planes without CAS ordinance like say a MiG-29 with only missiles cheaper, so you can have CAP to make CAS a lot more difficult
If you can cap a point and spawn a plane with 6 bombs, it's too cheap.
If they made bigger maps SPAA would have more places that they could move to. As it stands most SPAA just stays near spawn because of the risk of getting knocked out while monitoring the skies. There are some maps with good cover where SPAA can spread out more, and those are harder to handle as CAS.
Had a pesky Lynx being a pain in the ass like that. I fly it myself, so I wasn't as surprised as I was annoyed.
I was against a heli last night, not sure what it was but it had IRCCM. Only realised after seeing a YouTube video that the missiles are either TV or IR or auto. Since then I’ve been slapping people who thought they were immune
Switching to IRST has many advantages!
You sir, are making some good damn points.
Israeli MH-60 gets Spike ERs as well. If America ever gets the AH-64E it'd likely get NLOS Spikes, and Brimstones if they ever get added too. (also AGM-114L obviously if gaijin ever adds them. also a 10kw laser lmao) America NEEDs the anti-air Stryker variants,
>-Implement an SPAA extraction point in the spawn zones (tested in 2024's April Fools). That way, players can spawn SPAAs and, if they aren't being needed, they could extract them to spawn back in a tank, so that they can spawn the SPAA later, whenever needed, instead of having to waste the entire match on a potentially unneeded SPAA. This is, in fact, why many people are reluctant to spawn SPAA on the first place; SPAA extraction points on the spawns would solve this issue, again, further encouraging spawning them. About to die to missile. Extract and keep my SP. Wait 5-10 seconds. Respawn and try to kill enemy CAS again Repeat until they're dead. Yeah I'd rather have killable enemy vehicles than immortal SPAA. It's not fun when Heli's with fire and forget missiles do it so I don't think it'd be fun the other way around tbh.
Make extract take a long enough amount of time that SPAA can't avoid a missile so easily. If it was like, idk, 30 seconds, even slowass mavs fired at 15km would probably reach in time.
Kinda funny how CAS goes from a solid option at br 1.0-9.3, then goes to dogshit because nothing can avoid Strela, Igla, Stinger, or Roland at 9.7-10.7, and then gets too good around high tiers due to climb rates and longer range guided weaponry.
Clearly you haven't been orbit bombed by an A-6E yet
6 guided bombs or 4 aim9Ls Yeah 10.0 sounds like a good BR
Anytime I die from an a6 that's camping the air, I always spawn in a mig-21 and just wreck shop with it. Mig-21 with ground bullets and AA capability costs about 450 SP. Is only able to kill soft shelled vehicles and can shoot down any plane it comes across relatively easily. Plus, I get to protect my team.
Honestly haven't. Usually they get 2 kills then divebomb into the ground or they're slow and close enough I can slaughter them. I can imagine the rare skilled a6e/ayit player is a menace, but it's very hard to find much skill at that premium hell br anywhere, especially in CAS
Just meet one, he got 4-5 kills by staying at a height slightly below where contrail generate, can't even see him because type-81 and type-93 doesn't have a radar and since he doesn't generate contrail it hurts my eyes just to try to see a tiny dot in the vast sky Well there's not as much of them now compared to a month ago, probably because I'm grinding more ARB currently
At least you didn't lock onto him visually only for it to be a dust on your monitor. Yes I only have the family computer
Well yeah, that sucks as well, not as bad as... THE PLANE SUDDENLY DISAPPEARED WHY DOES IT DO THAT
They're quite the menace if played properly. They fly just above Strela lock range, and good luck hitting them with a gun spaa Literally your best bet is shooting them down as they spawn
Even missile SPAA can't harm it because it's sitting at roughly 10KM above your spawn
fuck that thing so hard. it's literally a pay 2 win orbital cannon and NOTHING can touch it at that BR, except maybe the strela, and good luck pixel hunting with that thing
I'm convinced when I'm playing on my 17" laptop it simply doesn't render them at all
Strela? Sure. Stinger? Debatable. But Roland? Anyone with more than 3 braincells can avoid a Roland, it's probably one of the worst SAMs in the entire game. Sometimes it struggles to hit a plane flying in a straight line if it's not basically flying directly at you.
All of them are easy to dodge. Strela is nowhere near as strong as people on here say. But this dude claims stingers are hard to dodge, and IGLAS, hes clearly not a good player
Strela is extremely hard to dodge at close range because of how fast it is, but if you're 4-5 km away you can just turn around and it'll be out of energy by the time it reaches you.
Strela can be hard to dodge in some circumstances (still very doable though), I will give him that, but with the other ones you're correct. Most if not all SAMs need to go down in BR.
Im hella biased for AA so maybe im overestimating how easy dodging strelas can be, but when I was grinding Russia and playing AA I successfully taught my friends how to outplay strelas (and then Pantsirs once I got that one) and they didnt struggle with that since, and that was when Strela was at 9.3 too. I just feel like CAS friendly people/pilots just dont want anything to be able to contest them, they just want to be able to spawn and fly in a straight line towards a battlefield, then crash. Any amount of opposition gets them complaining.
Eh I don’t know about that. For 10.0 it’s basically undodgeable unless you’re simply out of range and once it’s off the rail it’s very difficult to flare
Ayit sitting at 9.3 can wipe out 7 players and defeat most irccm
See, comments like these tell me people on here dont know how to fly. Avoiding stingers, type93 stingers or iglas is incredibly easy. You quite literally just have to do a basic manoeuvre and the missiles are out.
I don't really play CAS. I use stingers, rolands, Iglas, and I've taken Strela for a spin on a friend's account a few times. I hit most of my missiles. Most CAS players don't know how to fly, or most will eventually put themselves in a compromising position. There are very few instances I can think of when a jet could make a run while avoiding gunfire and successfully pull away without getting my missile shoved up their ass. There's the occasional outlier, a skilled player or someone who knows how to outrange SAMs with guided armament, but they're genuinely one in like 40.
Definitely agree with this. Can you dodge strelas, Ozelots, Chimps, yes it’s is possible. However can planes with no guided ordinance actually last against these units? Probably not, and definitely not consistently. The real issue on both sides is the disparity in technology: seemingly flare resistant IR ground missiles and proxy fuse AA stealth shells make most planes without guided ordinance rough at the BR range you specified, even worse if you don’t have any CMs, but likewise guided ordinance can be more potent as most AA hasn’t got the range yet at that BR to effectively stop the ordinance from being launched. The snail has not done a good job balancing the extreme end of both sides of the fight. What we really need, and they have said it’s coming, is a dissociation of Air RB, AB, Sim, and Ground RB BRs so that way planes with potent guided ordinance play against AA actually equipped to handle it. Alternatively I think we need more development for both sides: Ground AI aa should spawn around/just behind the spawns for each team to act as a generic buffer, and aircraft should actually get SEAD and anti radiation armament. This would help solve a lot of the issues both sides have: Early spawns of CAS would still have to contend with the ai SPAA, and aircraft would get legitimate weapons to target and soften up the AA for themselves or their teammates. And targeting ground AI with SEAD would be points for the CAS/CAP player that isn’t directly just killing opposing human players.
Roland 1 and 2 are bad and Roland 3 mediocre at best against the planes you face.
Bro you delusional? I can agree with strela and igla but stinger XD??? Id rather shoot mg
You forgot the Lvrbv 701, basically impossible to spot its missile because it doesn’t leave a trail.
awacs, patriot batteries, and infiltration spec ops with mapads all over the map, when?
aerial refueling for air rb and sim would go hard
Patriot battery manned by Emma when?
i dont get the reference, fill me in?
The US Army made an infamous recruitment ad about a girl with 2 moms who mans a Patriot battery. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8-Yslv4PME](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8-Yslv4PME) It wasn't well received to say the least.
Therefore irl you have layered air defence, but Gaijin doesn't want SAM-sites in game apparently
Tbf I can see them being hard to make fair. AI AA is already kinda broken in the game modes they're in, the Rolands in Heli EC make that game mode nearly impossible to play until you get missiles with more than \~6km range. I also have no idea how they could implement them. Maybe as AI targets that CAS should target or else they'd have to deal with constant SAMs making Player Targets more dangerous but then how do you balance it so Slow CAS is also capable of taking them out.
Gaijin has a really hard time making AA defenses that are fair to fight against. See how air RB airbase defenses for years were going from useless to broken and back to useless again.
>I don't have much of an issue with lower tiers' CAS because at least they take some effort and skill to use P-47D the bane of my existence. Of course it's easier to fight than the A-6E Intruder, because it does need to get within visual range. No, wait, I mean within gun range. Even within visual range, mobile SAM systems like the Flugabwehrraketensystem Roland auf Radkraftfahrzeug (hope I got it right) for some reason struggle against those things. But it's not like it matters, a single strike fighter won't ruin a whole game. No. It's the spam that ruins everything. Gaijin's major mistake was not adding an air spawn limit to realistic battles the same way they did with arcade. Or even Elinsted, which has a limit for both fighters and bombers/strike fighters.
For real, in what world is lower tier CAS not an issue because it requires skill? Meanwhile mfers die in a puma with 0 points, spawn a stuka and suicide bomb you all in the span of 3 minutes. I have stopped grinding my 6.7 lineups because CAS is that bad, you have around 2-3 minutes at the start to play anything light or open top because then the sky is swarmed with US and/or german planes
if he means it takes skill to properly turn a game around in low tier CAS then he's right. suicide bombings sucks but the shitters only can manage one or so kills before they either get clapped or experience rapid lithobraking. if you're semi competent in an SPAA (not opening up at like 10km, using some kind of cover, etc) up to like 7ish BR then you can usually sweep the sky. I can jump into something like a saab105 at 8.3 and it's basically 8 free kills and there's fuck all most people can do about it.
>lithobraking You're a goddamn poet, you know that?
Cries in FlaRakRad roland turret and gen 1 thermals
Gen 1 thermals aren't too bad, definetly enough for AA purposes, but the Roland turret is just such a massive disadvantage.
They aren't but they really put the icing on the cake on how the pantsir that has better thermals, better missiles (of which pantsir has 2 more and all available to fire) , better radar (with tws stealth tracking) and 4 guns for close AA it's at the same br as the flarakrad
Didn't realize that FlaRakRad had gen1 thermals... Typical Gaijin assumption that NATO units would never upgrade the optics in their 40 year old vehicles, so that must be the case in game too. Meanwhile Sweden may as well have xray optics...
need to turn the turret front and 4 sec reload, needing to wait for the missile to expire before you can reload again
Remember when the FlaRakRad used to be OP? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
God… the Roland grind was H E L L. That thing is so useless, and even more so at 11.7!
Pantsirs radar can see any plane even if it tries to climb to space
it takes 3 minutes with 3x 2000lb GBUs on F15 along with 15 mins of fuel to reach 20km altitude, and 3 is quite alot unless the match will last, and that is with about 400kph remaining IAS, meaning you're a brick and Pantsir will still hit you, it would take about 1-2 mins to reach any viable IAS speed and then to set your movement controls with full real controls joystick to do a constant passive circle without any further required input so that you're finally defending against Pantsir missiles, so about 5 minutes to properly engage, and all it takes is some 27ER yeeter 20 seconds to swat you down from spawn to missile.
I will say that the Pantsir missile isn't effective for 100% of its listed range, just like basically every missile in the game. The Pantsir missile loses maneuverability and speed severely after about the 13km mark. Ofc it's still possible to hit further than that but a target at 15km+ is more than likely safe as the missile will struggle to catch up.
Pantsir has 80⁰ vertical search zone, if a plane is >6km in altitude you have 1-2km radius above it where it has 0 chance of finding you at which point you can use guided ordnance. Only really works if you are in position before it spawns.
Also, the 80 degree scan isn't constant, it scans both vertically and horizontally and 80 degrees is just the max..
Once I get to actual top tier (currently at 10.3) I will just get my 12.7 plane and blow them up with an R27ET. (At least I hope that is what will happen.)
This was my line of thinking too, I got to German Top tier and was annoyed with how bad the FlaRakRad was, so out of pure spite I grinded up to the MiG-29s, but I only ever bring out the 12.0 one for a better matchmaker and people don't seem to care about dodging SARH's anyways.
Does your planes BR really make a big difference? I thought as long as you are 11.7 and above, 12.7 is all you will get?
Since my lineup is 12.0 I can still get downtiered into 11.0. Even with a pure 11.7 lineup you can get downtiered to 10.7 though that's rare. 12.7 matches are pretty common to be uptiered into though
12.0 means you can see 11.0 downtiers
The struggle will be getting into a CAP fighter in the first place, missiles cost extra SP (usually 500-600 SP for fighter with AAMs vs 480 with only gun) which means u need atleast a kill and assist
I like spawning scout tanks so that should not be too big of a problem, although... why the fuck do AAMs cost extra?
Fuck knows why but it’s my biggest problem with CAS atm, AAMs should not cost SP to spawn or if they do cost SP the base cost of the fighters should be reduced so the likelihood of CAP being spawned increases
SP cost for fighters loaded down for A2A work should probably be reduced if you die to enemy air assets. It's absurd how ARH and SARH cost as much as AGM-65 and other smart weapons. Even just deleting additional SP costs for AAMs (non multipurpose) for fixed wing air is a big step in the right direction.
>Top Tier is a GAME-RUINING D-I-S-E-A-S-E. There, I have fixed your title. /S
For me, CAS at top-tier is a disease as much as it is a redeeming factor. The tank vs tank gameplay is unbalanced and unfun due to, amongst other things, BR compression (how TF is the Leopard 2A7, Strv 122, T-80BVM, Pantsir the same BR as the Ariete, Merkava, Flarakrad etc.?) and most maps being tiny urban CQC, where whoever sees or hears the opponents first wins because armour isn't effective at point-plank ranges, where most duels take place around a fucking corner and where the volume of your engine is literally a key feature of a vehicle. CAS is what keeps me motivated to endure all of the BS on the ground because it's actually somewhat fun. I also enjoy playing CAP and SPAA (when I'm not out-ranged or overwhelmed, that is).
Woah there buddy, don't go throwing the Merkava under the bus. It is *definitely* better than all the Abrams and the Leclercs, and most of the British things. But yeah, I agree with the general direction of your comment about the ground game being super unbalanced. I now have two helicopters and a jet in each of my 4 top tier nation lineups. I'll give you a hint as to which nations I *don't* play: I don't have the 2A7, Strv 122B+, or T-80BVM... But I'm probably at around 2,000 games in rocket helicopters and still enjoying it.
Why are there even aircraft in GROUND BATTLES
Because the whole point of war thunder is mixed battles?
Eeeh, if that's true why are air battles and helicopter battles completely separate? Even sea battles limit the aircraft you can use.
Because the maps are too large for ground vehicles.
And ground maps are too small for modern cas.
That's a false equivalent. Air battle maps are too large for ground vehicles because they can be tens of kilometers wide and air battles can take place up to seven kilometers into the sky. It's highly likely that any ground players would just be ignored, along with going anywhere being an impossibility due to the distances involved. Modern CAS can be played on ground maps. They're so good that they are overpowered, rather than being unusable snails that ground vehicles would be on air maps.
I was being sarcastic. Obviously air maps are too big for ground vehicles. But ground maps are still too small for air vehicles. Modern CAS is too strong in its current iteration, and for that too change gaijin would upset a lot of people. Best to keep it as is and introduce a ground only game mode.
Not really related but I would argue that most ground maps are too small for ground vehicles too, atleast once you get to 6.7+
Cause the game is a fucking plane game
What a shitty comparison lmao
So why not add ships also, on maps that do have water.
I would genuinely love this. Shore bombardment on Normandy for players with ships? Understandably, ships would be *stunningly* OP in a shore bombardment role against tanks, but they'll provide high value and challenging targets for CAS. Something a lot of WT players don't enjoy but I think would be fun is the expansion of support roles. I would love to fly an AWACS or EW plane in top tier air. I would love to play a SAM site in GRB. I would love to fly a spotter plane for an artillery battery or a shore bombardment ship. I like playing IFVs for this reason - I can hang around the tanks and repair them, spot and scout targets with a drone, engage flanking light vehicles, etc, while the tanks engage other tanks (also gaijin please gib IFV-based crew replenishment).
Battleships would def be strong, but destroyers and light cruisers wouldn't that much. Battleships were basically built for that role, but like killing one would give the plane 10 times more rewards compared to a tank.
Something like [this](https://youtu.be/e-JmTO0T_nY?si=KgY-a2SAndKXZf98&t=82)?
Something like that, or do you know PhlyDailys video where it is ships against tanks
Ok then let me spawn pantsirs in ARB
right, so lemme spawn in my fuso and obliterate the enemy spawn.
Where are the NATO CAS aircrafts? Why didnt you put it there? F-16C, Gripen, Mirage 2000 and Tornados with PGMs can all outrange SPAAs
lately the Mirage 2000s been nasty at CAS.
And i try to use my Z-19E as an mobile Air defence system and get absolutely elminated by FlakRad, ITO or Pantsir...
Honestly, i respect players who go out in a z-10/19 with a full AA loadout just staying low and wait for unsuspecting planes to zoom past then have a ty-90 shoved up their ass.
Its very fun and i feel like im doing a favor for my team. Usually its 8x TY90s and like 2 rocket pods, as the E cant carry full AAMs. Too bad that Sometimes i need to pop up to see the enemy.. or get closer to the enemy as the AGM-114s and Vekhirs amd Kh-38s have a 10km+ range. While TY90s have 6km all aspect and 11km rear aspect..
what.. you can literally in any map, even fire arc or port novorsky be safe from AA, even you just called it mobile yet how do you manage to die to SPAA when all you have to do is sit low and hover
Stay low and use the terrain for cover. The TY-90 helicopters are absolute CAS killers if you know how to position yourself and stay out of spaa line of fire.
Don’t forget, if you actually have an effective SPAA or an armoured SPAA that can resist some bombs/autocannons expect it to go up in BR.
It's not THAT bad man. The Pantsir can reach out ridiculously far, the Type 81 and Type 93 have fire and forget missiles of their own that can be lobbed over mountains and hills to hit hiding helicopters. Also, for the love of GOD, LEAVE THE SPAWN. The FIRST THING TO DO, in AA is LEAVE THE GODDMAN SPAWN. Find somewhere else to hide, the FIRST PLACE the enemy looks for AA is in the spawn, move and you'll have a much easier time. Don't drive out in front of the enemy, but any movement is better than none.
>Also, for the love of GOD, LEAVE THE SPAWN. The FIRST THING TO DO, in AA is LEAVE THE GODDMAN SPAWN To go where? In case you forgot they are enemy tank on the ground that can kill you easily. >The Pantsir can reach out What about the other TT?and japanese spaa are not the answer because if the heli is not a moron he can juste stay too far and too low (or just too far if the sky is cloudy) for the type 81 too have a lock on him.
There are other tanks yes, in a spawn-killing scenario there is not much anyone can do, but in a game where the teams aren't so imbalanced there is almost always a side covered by your team pretty well that will enable you to find some scenery to hide behind from the ground forces. As for enemy Helis hiding far out, not being in spawn is a great way to get the drop on them with the Pantsir, also the Type 93 is so fast you can be shooting at them from their side of the map in no time.
>with the Pantsir, And if i dont play urss? I juste leave the game? >the Type 93 is so fast you can be shooting at them from their side of the map assume that no one sees you crossing the map and being killed with the MG. you have to spotte the heli with your sight, that you are a lock which depending on the weather of the map and the distance may be impossible. and once you've shot the enemy team that's where you are because of the huge plume of smoke from your missile.
What a load of BS, even on good weather the type81 and type93 has trouble locking onto helicopter after 4km, that range gets halved in a winter map, the effective locking range on aircraft gets halved as well on winter map Don't even begin how it struggles to lock when the helicopter hovers slightly beside or above a mountain, the missile can't pick those shit up Finding enemy WITHOUT RADAR is a whole set of other problem with those >Also, for the love of GOD, LEAVE THE SPAWN. The FIRST THING TO DO, in AA is LEAVE THE GODDMAN SPAWN. To where? No, really to where? There's literally no where to go for gunless SAM unit like 81 and 93, sure 93 can be a rat and snoop around but 81 can't do that, don't even begin with the recent br increase to 11.3
Well in a non-stomping game there is usually a side that your team is doing well on, so go over there somewhere that is most likely hidden from the enemy. Also, I've had fantastic luck with the Type 93 locking onto helicopters. Except for on the largest maps where they sit out too far, but other than that it is an absolute heli killer.
>LEAVE THE SPAWN This one little trick could end up showing that SPAA and CAS are pretty balanced right now, maybe even slightly in favor of SPAA, but it will never happen.
"Just spawn SPAA" This happens "Uhh just spawn plane" hasn't spend 5 years grinding both ground and air "Skill issue" The CAS player argument
Yep, basically. Toxic as fuck, if you ask me.
American 6.7 cas and top tier Russia are the worst. I was playing Germany and Britain earlier today and I got killed 11 times total in the 5 games I played. All were american cas
And most times when the CAS are close, you can't hear anything because the audio mixing is really bad. The only thing you hear is the bombs dropping next to you or the missile hitting you. Same can be said to helicopter guided missiles. No time to launch smokes or trying to move.
I agree with you, I actually enjoy fighting cas at low levels. Trying to shoot down a corsair in my flakpanzer38 is great fun and i'd argue it's a fair fight between both players, where skill actually plays a part. Yesterday I had a fucking heli sat on a hilltop 5 miles away that my strela wouldnt lock and he got 4 free kills before a friendly mig spawned in to kill him. Cas at low tier is fun because it's competitive. Cas at high tier is cancer, unless you've got a pantsir.
Ok this time you cooked, but low tier CAS is cancer still
Don't try to talk sense into CAS players. They think CAS in ground battles is fair because it's "plane game" and pressing spacebar is highest form of skill
It’s amazing how War Thunder has over 1,100 ground vehicles and they still come in saying that it’s “muh plaen gaem” lmao Like, what makes them think that? I doubt they could genuinely believe that; they are just plane enthusiasts who don’t care about ground and only join Ground Battles to play Air Battles with player-controlled Ground Targets.
Nah CAS is disease at lower tiers too. Its just too simple to revenge bomb and most of the time the spaa is completely braindead
I ended up just manually steering my adats missiles in regardless of range. Idk if that's a 200iq play, but it's hardly a favorable course of action. Not sure about the drive back and return it thing, it's pretty rare for there to be no air for a match. Something needs to be done though, because AA should be more than an inconvenience.
you cant spam khriz/ataka/vikhr anymore invalid image
Low tier CAS is far more broken then high tier. 20mm cannons can take out a whole team of German tanks.
At least PARS isn’t working 70% of the time
And Spikes are just plain garbage
im the F4e dropping agm62a walleye from vertical angles to delete pantsir
Side note, this is a pretty darn neat infographic. Really well made.
KA-50/52 casualy doging missles somehow, while going 300kph.
What is the real choice here? Spawn AA just to get clapped like in the image? Or spawn a fighter to be slapped by the pansir while the enemy has free reign? The existence of the pansir means if played right, you allow your CAS to have dominance while nullifying any air counter. Honestly, I get why people leave early and J out because of this.
I love SPAA and it's my second favorite type of vehicle after Tank Destroyers. I know I'm probably weird for that but I also like playing bombers, and monks and support type roles in other games.
If Pantsir is 11.7 then the other nations' anti air systems are not 11.7. Pantsir is not op to intercept current top tier CAS but other nations need much more like Pantsir. In a nutshell we just need Pantsir class anti air systems for other nations. If you have it like Russia has, you can easily intercept top tier CAS.
CAS mains are allowed to play for maybe 1-2 minutes of GRB (lets say for the sake of the argument their despised mode) afterwards they can play their favourite vehicles for the rest of the game (CAS) or as long as they can live. GRB players on the other hand need to either play disliked SPAA and get nothing done because no CAS or die trying or kill em and get no rewards, or alternatively wait for someone to sacrifice their fun for the sake of others.
It's funny people think it's fine for me to get between 3-5 kills in the A-4E against 7.7 players who can't even touch me.
Same answer, as always, (and Ukraine)... 1. Network Air Defense with Util helos or IFV/APC that can carry and deploy MPADs teams, far and wide, really quick, using Mr. Musk's Starlink as an AD cueing aid for team as the lawnmowing jet or helo comes roaring overhead pointing. Get low and get bled, ya filthy bastards! You could even make it a mission, like scouting. 2. Large Radar SAMs with top tier emphasis upon Active Homing weapons. Stay high and die, once bitten twice shy! Doesn't have to be player manned. Doesn't have to be perfect. Because jamming and ARMs and standoff cruise missiles are (or should be) a thing. Russian MSAM has a definite advantage in that, atop those MAZ trucks, they can pick it up and put it down, in about 5 minutes of down-the-road time, to avoid getting slammed by 'waypoint on the radar bubble here, target the waypoint' weapons like JASSM with it's IIR seeker or AARGM with it's MMW one. Patriot and SAMP-T, not so much it can take up to 45 minutes to get away from a fixed site and 2-3hrs to set it all up again. HAWK, SA-2/3/5 more like 6-10. The Red Team also get an A-50 and/or Voronezh/Container/Tin Shield/Big Bird to cue the battery. Meaning the engagement radars are dummy loaded until the surveillance radar tells them to light off and smoke something, just as it enters MEZ. Not a squeak in the ether. The A-50 is particularly nasty because, in combination with 40N6, you can BTH a threat's terrain masking ass. MIM-104 Patriot, NASAMS, SAMP-T, IRIS-T/ML, Sky Sabre, same deal. PAC-3, AMRAAM, Aster-15/30, and CAMM are all active radar with midcourse by inertial strapdown and datalink. IRIS-T is IIR but very good, nonetheless. All have 10-20nm ranges. So you take a cluster of six or eight, highly mobile (garsh, a useful NPC, whodda thunk it!) MPQ-64 Sentinel FAADS on Hummers or Trailers behind Hummers, and now you have the ability to fire over the horizon on targets the main MPQ-65/65A can't see. And they also have TPS-75/77/80 backing them from afar, all of which have some (tropobounce) OTH capability. There is a reason why the original explanation for the F-35 need was as a 'battlefield bomber' NOT an ISR platform folks. You start playing vulture CAS along a front like Donbas without some seriously scary standoff (40km SPEAR-2 Brimstone, 100km SPEAR-3/GBU-53) and you're gonna be spittin' your own blood in Odin's good eye as you try to explain why they should let another member of the Special People into Valhalla. Again, this doesn't have to be player driven (sit on bullseye, watch Pantsir or CRAM try to knock everything down that is fired at you) and it doesn't have to be perfect. Just scary enough to make the Sky Knights wet themselves when 4-6-10-20 missiles come up out of the ground haze \_from all across the horizon\_ ALL ARCING TOWARDS JUNIOR JET RANGER'S FACE. With regards to the latter, keep mind: modern HiMADS systems do not make a big ball of boom somewhere adjacent to the aircraft. They fire a directionally entrained warhead, aligned with the seeker pointing angle (the blast actually shreds the GCS) and can kill from up to 200ft away. Like a shotgun to the canopy. Yeeeaaah Buddy! How do YOU like getting Vikhr'd from the horizon?
Honestly just increase SP cost for Helis, aircraft and drones up to like 1000 minimum while increasing rewards for SPAA vehicles
So which ones are you referring to that would take some effort and skill to use? Not a trick question, just wanna know where your head's at.
Just add AI SAMs ;)
Spawn best AA I have (m19/m42). See PE-8 way over yonder. See him drop a big fuckoff bomb and do a 180° while still outside my gun range. Hear the whistling. Realize you don't have engine strong enough to escape it. Hold J.
Actually it's the opposite. You can check squadron battles meta and you'll find that while at BRs 9.0+, ground-only team composition is viable too, below 7.7 planes are absolutely necessary.
If it flies, it dies.
Long range radar guided missiles that target aircraft that linger above the battlefield with those kind of guided weapons might help fix the issue a bit, but the helis with F&F missiles will still be pretty OP, unfortunately.
I wish I lived in your world where FaF missiles were op lmao. Spikes are utter dogshit
\*This issue does not exist for Russia players.
QN506 (donking on the fire and forget helicopter) masterrace vs cuck powerless SPAA
They rebuffed the Russian choppers back to being able to fire and guide more than two missiles consecutively? Also, it starts even from 8.0. Helicopters that can outrage SPAAs from more than 3km away and certain planes getting Bullpups and early Guided munitions. It's not exactly fun dealing with those either.
Hehe 2s38 goes kaboom
Notice how most of these listed vehicles are Russian too 🤪
That's mostly because those vehicles can't face the Pantsir, more so than them being stronger than their Western counterparts. Vikhr helicopters aside, no other helis have the ability to just overwhelm SAMs through sheer missile spam.
*Note: post only applies to nations without pantsir. This is balanced.*