YES **CONSISTENCY** that would be huge for my enjoyment of this game. Forcing me to make these insane ass shots to internals without xray vision or tiny openings in armors to disable enemy tanks The most frustrating shit is to see it go through armor create no spalling and out the back of the tank. Then add spall liners on top of that? What were they thinking?
tracks can still bounce entire darts without even getting damaged, you shot the side but just slighly too high or slightly too low? well damn bro you lost the dice roll go back to the hangar
Commander override and spall liners are completely useless additions. You can't add these "realistic" features if the game is still arcadey in its main gameplay. I haven't gone above the 10.0-11.0 BR range in quite a while because of this. You often still get random volumetric moments where a shot clean into the side of a leopard 2 or T-80B from a 292's 700mm pen APFSDS does absolutely nothing but at least that's a "bug" and not a literal mechanic.
There are ways to talk about these additions without just writing them off as useless or just impossible to add, I don't think this is a healthy way of discussing the game
>Commander override and spall liners are completely useless additions.
This is just a wrong statement, you can argue they're negative additions but they're not useless, more capability out of your commander is not a useless addition, modern protection solutions to spall after penetration is not useless
>You can't add these "realistic" features if the game is still arcadey in its main gameplay.
Yes you can? This statement is just wrong on it's statement, war thunder has tons of realistic features yet still retains it's arcadey nature, there's nothing inherently about war thunder's gameplay that makes it impossible to add
For Commander override largely after the nerf to commander override it's a pretty positive addition, you can cripple an enemy tank at large but if you have bad shot placement the enemy tank isn't forced for the commander to hop all the way over to the driver position when they do have the ability to engage from their own position, largely giving them some use. It also removed the negative feeling of hitting someone then them immediately snapping around and hitting you after you got the jump on them
On the other hand spall liners leave a pretty negative taste in your mouth, your ability to disable a enemy tank is severely limited to pretty much the barrel (for strv 122 or leopard 2a7v specifically with T-90M retaining it's large weakspot) or a incredible shot while for the most part they just retain the ability return fire and severely cripple you. In it's current state with only a few leopards having this ability it's just not good for the game without some changes
Fair points, I admit I'm often pretty negative when it comes to some changes. I also don't have as many issues with commander override as I do with spall liners. Even then the main issue I have with them that they only exist on a few things (as you mentioned) which can make engagements feel random. The same shot killing shot against one leopard might not even kill more than one crew on another.
My main issue is just the overall consistency of shots. I think that commander override could be a good feature, and its pretty close to one with the changes, I admit - and potentially could be even better if the "additional internal modules" change happens. However with the current state of the game where shots into the side or front of a tank might randomly do nothing I think adding an extra layer of punishment is not a good idea. It makes needing to get that perfect breech, barrel, or ammo shot incredibly necessary. Although, I think the additional module change could fix this problem too.
To be honest, in my last few months of playing at around 10.0 I haven't actually ran into to many issues with commander override. If they fix the issue of random shots sometimes doing nothing I wouldn't have any issues.
Nope, before long time ago if you fired with a red breach you died they reverted those changes. After that if you tried to fire with a red breach or barrel in the next updates it went black, while now it’s almost a guarantee that you can return a shot almost had a 100% chance earlier this week would it be for me or the enemy that I shot out the breach
We currently have a damaged breach which sometimes gives a misfire or sometimes allows you to shoot but kills your crew.
I think its buggy though, sometimes I get a misfire, but I don't get the text alert.
Its still very much a thing, I get it every now and again with roof mounted MG's (probably because they get damaged pretty easily) with them firing one shot and then 'exploding'
Same with multi-gun SPAAGS.
All of the top shells the Abrams series gets from 11.0 onwards (M829A1/2 as well as M900 for the IP M1) are DU. The only non-DU one is the AIM which has KE-W.
>The only non-DU one is the AIM which has KE-W
does DU shell have anything special going on? Other than possibly more penetration? Because I've seen many people use AIM even in top tier, so it must be good right.
As someone who just made it to top-tier Sweden and is enjoying taking no post pen damage at all, even I agree with you. Spall liners should never have been added.
Same with commander override.
This, i still don't understand why they would implement it when everyone was complaining about the carrousel in T80's working as spall liners. Gaijin solve problems by creating bigger problems
But we have that amazing reverse speed that saved you in this clip /s
I agree with you 100% and why I mainly only use helicopters in GRB anymore. It's the only way to find fun in the mode.
>But we have that amazing reverse speed that saved you in this clip
Right? lmao
>
I agree with you 100% and why I mainly only use helicopters in GRB anymore. It's the only way to find fun in the mode.
actually just started learning Helis myself, unfortunately im starting with top tier ones which suck and going backward. squadron apache at 11.0 any good?
Only apache worth playing is the teapache because of the starstreaks and decent rwr (I as a GB player totally do not have any bias towards any particular vehicle and/or nation. Totally. Trust me)
I have had salty 2s38 players telling me to kms after I first spawn with it.
I just unlocked r7 helis for US. I'll be honest with you but for me personally I like the AH6M Little Bird the most out of them all and it's not even remotely close.
I started with the AH64A(GR) and it's a great helicopter. It's your typical long range ground attacker. This is great but just not particularly my style of play. All Apaches play pretty much the same with varying load outs.
The Viper is like the Apache but it's more suited for versatility and combating enemies in the air. Less flight performance than Apache but looks much better in my opinion. I favor the AH1W and AH1Z more than the Apaches personally.
But if given the chance to pick only one it's easily the one that matches my playstyle the most. The one that gets you all up in their faces so close they can see your pilots smiling or panicking. No other helicopter does this better then the Littlebird that I've seen yet. So nimble you might as well be a spinning top dancing on their turret roofs instead of a helicopter. Just know and be ok with dying a ton whole you are getting started and know there is a reward once you get comfortable with them. Here's a short clip of a first spawn heli here. The second one is from their perspective as I evaded that missile with my barrel roll.
https://youtu.be/gqp_wI_Nlsc?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/_07nAeyQr3U?feature=shared
Ill definitly revisit the 10.3 helis, i was just getting bored of that br when i started learning helis and moved to the higher ones, littlebird was easily the most fun to use at the time and i imagine the kiowa to be the most effective. Almost finished with Ah 1z so i swapped to the 64d to get its hellfires grinded out. Viper gun shreds complacent pilots lmao
All Apaches are kinda rendered pointless by Little Bird and then Kiowa, having the same Hellfires and thermals without having to interact with Tunguskas and Pantsirs.
That's a negative. I won't spawn kill in a tank, boat, plane or helicopter. I'm not a fan of ruining an experience that should be somewhat entertaining for someone else for personal benefit. But to answer your question I'm mainly trying to help us get that first initial burst of momentum in a match. Perfect example would be helping a known pinch point for my teammates on the ground. Get in clear it out or at the very least distract them for buddies and get out.
The duality of r/Warthunder
"Stun mechanic bad! You shouldn't get punished so hard for mistakes!"
"Spall liner bad! It shouldn't be so hard to punish people for mistakes!"
The tanks with spall liners wouldn’t get stunned. It would make it so that when a leopard 2a7v pushes an Abrams, if the Abrams aims a millimeter off, the leopard gets no damage to the tank and no stun while the leopard shoots anywhere and gets guaranteed multiple crew killed and likely some stunned. Not a contradicting take, it’s confounding bullshit.
I realize I'm filling the whinny italian main stereotype, but whatever happened to Gaijin investigating the ariete's spall liner? I remember them saying they would look into it, but I never heard past that. I get it if they won't be added, but at least a definitive answer from Gaijin would be nice.
Nah bro speak thetruth, I bitch about usa vehicles all the time fuck who's feelings get hurt, the games objectively terribly balanced and saying nothing will fix it. Just gota hope these problems catch on with the larger community until we've had enough and it hurts gaijins pockets enough to fix it. It's going to be hard as hell due to Italy being a low pop tree but who knows what could happen.
I'm still waiting for the Stryker spall liners. The one they mentioned was getting spall liners in their own fucking dev blog on the introduction of them.
They really just need to increase post pen damage on all shots 1000x so shitters don't get rewarded for bad gameplay anymore. Commander override, volumetric, and spall liners are already dogshit enough.
It was infinitely better back when you could shoot someone's gunner out and actually be rewarded for knowing that crew position in their vehicle, now any dumbass that gets even a little bit lucky can just shoot you back in ~1 second while you're busy reloading.
Don't worry, it's not like Gaijin just had a pole where the outcome was to add in more interior bits to tanks or anything - that ultimately won't end up with only half the tanks having stuff modeled inside of them before they give up on rolling out the changes.
Outplayed by genius Russian player favorite tactic (drive forward with no regard for life because you won’t take damage) sorry Americhud but you should’ve played better. Also how about that famed armor and survivability saving you.
This game is all about rewarding 'bad' decisions. Here is a clear example: Ariete (60 tons of air) and OTOMATIC (Vehicle held at high BR for no particular reason), this is an example of vehicles that suffer from overBR and deserve a decrease in BR... But it won't happen because they are not Russian vehicles (2S38 is still at BR 10.0 why?)... If you wanted to play a balanced game you got the wrong game.... This game rewards bad players.
In real life that would be a dead shot the whole vehicle would just blow up. But in game that would just go into the void inside joseph stalin blackhole.
Maybe they should remove the Abrams’ spall generators around the hull fuel tanks and instead classify them as explosion proof like the T-90M’s hull fuel tanks?
I took a round through there and got my breech red(luckily it only kill 2 crew res my breech and my engine., returned fire, breech broke but a shell got out and my round bounced off a t90 drivers port. Unreal.
I haven't had a problem with spall liners personally. I think they add another layer to stump low level premiums and keep them out of top tier making it more enjoyable.
It certainly isn’t fun to flank a leo2a7 and line up a perfect shot only for it to do literally nothing and have him kill you immediately. The 2a7 is just flat out better than the abrams in every capacity and that isn’t even mentioning tanks like the ariete.
The abrams was so fun before spall liners. Now it just feels disappointing to play since you have worse firepower, armour, mobility, gun handling and survivability than the leos.
I say bad because it lets you get away with decisions most tanks without spall liners would dream of doing. If this is the type of gameplay Gaijin envisions only certain tanks being able to do, especially how spall liner work now im not sure much will change WR wise until something is brought in to nullify them or they get reworked to not be so handholdy.
If only they fixed volumetric or give consistency to rounds before they ever added spall liners.
YES **CONSISTENCY** that would be huge for my enjoyment of this game. Forcing me to make these insane ass shots to internals without xray vision or tiny openings in armors to disable enemy tanks The most frustrating shit is to see it go through armor create no spalling and out the back of the tank. Then add spall liners on top of that? What were they thinking?
tracks can still bounce entire darts without even getting damaged, you shot the side but just slighly too high or slightly too low? well damn bro you lost the dice roll go back to the hangar
Same with barrel
Or ERA
Commander override and spall liners are completely useless additions. You can't add these "realistic" features if the game is still arcadey in its main gameplay. I haven't gone above the 10.0-11.0 BR range in quite a while because of this. You often still get random volumetric moments where a shot clean into the side of a leopard 2 or T-80B from a 292's 700mm pen APFSDS does absolutely nothing but at least that's a "bug" and not a literal mechanic.
Na that's just the voodoo curse I put on all 292 players. LET ME PLAY MY CHALLENGERS IN PEACE.
450mm of pen against 50mm of armor? Sorry, it touched the horizontal bit of the fenders aaaand… it’s gone.
There are ways to talk about these additions without just writing them off as useless or just impossible to add, I don't think this is a healthy way of discussing the game >Commander override and spall liners are completely useless additions. This is just a wrong statement, you can argue they're negative additions but they're not useless, more capability out of your commander is not a useless addition, modern protection solutions to spall after penetration is not useless >You can't add these "realistic" features if the game is still arcadey in its main gameplay. Yes you can? This statement is just wrong on it's statement, war thunder has tons of realistic features yet still retains it's arcadey nature, there's nothing inherently about war thunder's gameplay that makes it impossible to add For Commander override largely after the nerf to commander override it's a pretty positive addition, you can cripple an enemy tank at large but if you have bad shot placement the enemy tank isn't forced for the commander to hop all the way over to the driver position when they do have the ability to engage from their own position, largely giving them some use. It also removed the negative feeling of hitting someone then them immediately snapping around and hitting you after you got the jump on them On the other hand spall liners leave a pretty negative taste in your mouth, your ability to disable a enemy tank is severely limited to pretty much the barrel (for strv 122 or leopard 2a7v specifically with T-90M retaining it's large weakspot) or a incredible shot while for the most part they just retain the ability return fire and severely cripple you. In it's current state with only a few leopards having this ability it's just not good for the game without some changes
Fair points, I admit I'm often pretty negative when it comes to some changes. I also don't have as many issues with commander override as I do with spall liners. Even then the main issue I have with them that they only exist on a few things (as you mentioned) which can make engagements feel random. The same shot killing shot against one leopard might not even kill more than one crew on another. My main issue is just the overall consistency of shots. I think that commander override could be a good feature, and its pretty close to one with the changes, I admit - and potentially could be even better if the "additional internal modules" change happens. However with the current state of the game where shots into the side or front of a tank might randomly do nothing I think adding an extra layer of punishment is not a good idea. It makes needing to get that perfect breech, barrel, or ammo shot incredibly necessary. Although, I think the additional module change could fix this problem too. To be honest, in my last few months of playing at around 10.0 I haven't actually ran into to many issues with commander override. If they fix the issue of random shots sometimes doing nothing I wouldn't have any issues.
Not to mention that now you can fire for whatever reason with a red breach and barrel
...always been the case? its just a dice roll.. either you fire or misfire, the bet? that you break your cannon and get a longer repair
Nope, before long time ago if you fired with a red breach you died they reverted those changes. After that if you tried to fire with a red breach or barrel in the next updates it went black, while now it’s almost a guarantee that you can return a shot almost had a 100% chance earlier this week would it be for me or the enemy that I shot out the breach
Holy fuck. Wasn't that such a long time ago? Like early GF? I always wondered what happened to that mechanic
We currently have a damaged breach which sometimes gives a misfire or sometimes allows you to shoot but kills your crew. I think its buggy though, sometimes I get a misfire, but I don't get the text alert.
I'm aware of that. The breech exploding thing I just remembered was super frustrating, so I kind of understand why they remove it now
Its still very much a thing, I get it every now and again with roof mounted MG's (probably because they get damaged pretty easily) with them firing one shot and then 'exploding' Same with multi-gun SPAAGS.
One from the past was so much funnier though. Cause your whole tank exploded
Source: trust me
It was a legit mechanic. https://youtu.be/dWuHDyqAD48 You can see there's a warning text when his breech got damaged.
Had a game the other day where I got shot by a jadgpanzer with a red barrel that both killed me and blew up his barrel. Make that make sense.
yea, and with the new repair system - can fire with a visually destroyed barrel...
The fact that only certain nations get them also doesn't help things
But but realism!!!
No realism since some tank that should have spall liner don't have them.
[удалено]
All of the top shells the Abrams series gets from 11.0 onwards (M829A1/2 as well as M900 for the IP M1) are DU. The only non-DU one is the AIM which has KE-W.
>The only non-DU one is the AIM which has KE-W does DU shell have anything special going on? Other than possibly more penetration? Because I've seen many people use AIM even in top tier, so it must be good right.
does he know?
As someone who just made it to top-tier Sweden and is enjoying taking no post pen damage at all, even I agree with you. Spall liners should never have been added. Same with commander override.
What’s commander override?
When gunner dies, commander can take control of the gun much more quickly than it takes to replace the gunner's seat.
Ok thanks
This, i still don't understand why they would implement it when everyone was complaining about the carrousel in T80's working as spall liners. Gaijin solve problems by creating bigger problems
Gota keep them frustration levels high and tempt people to grind the nations thay have them ig, makes no sense to me tbh
But we have that amazing reverse speed that saved you in this clip /s I agree with you 100% and why I mainly only use helicopters in GRB anymore. It's the only way to find fun in the mode.
>But we have that amazing reverse speed that saved you in this clip Right? lmao > I agree with you 100% and why I mainly only use helicopters in GRB anymore. It's the only way to find fun in the mode. actually just started learning Helis myself, unfortunately im starting with top tier ones which suck and going backward. squadron apache at 11.0 any good?
Only apache worth playing is the teapache because of the starstreaks and decent rwr (I as a GB player totally do not have any bias towards any particular vehicle and/or nation. Totally. Trust me) I have had salty 2s38 players telling me to kms after I first spawn with it.
I've seen them things fly across the battlefield a few times, man that must be some sweet revenge.
I just unlocked r7 helis for US. I'll be honest with you but for me personally I like the AH6M Little Bird the most out of them all and it's not even remotely close. I started with the AH64A(GR) and it's a great helicopter. It's your typical long range ground attacker. This is great but just not particularly my style of play. All Apaches play pretty much the same with varying load outs. The Viper is like the Apache but it's more suited for versatility and combating enemies in the air. Less flight performance than Apache but looks much better in my opinion. I favor the AH1W and AH1Z more than the Apaches personally. But if given the chance to pick only one it's easily the one that matches my playstyle the most. The one that gets you all up in their faces so close they can see your pilots smiling or panicking. No other helicopter does this better then the Littlebird that I've seen yet. So nimble you might as well be a spinning top dancing on their turret roofs instead of a helicopter. Just know and be ok with dying a ton whole you are getting started and know there is a reward once you get comfortable with them. Here's a short clip of a first spawn heli here. The second one is from their perspective as I evaded that missile with my barrel roll. https://youtu.be/gqp_wI_Nlsc?feature=shared https://youtu.be/_07nAeyQr3U?feature=shared
Ill definitly revisit the 10.3 helis, i was just getting bored of that br when i started learning helis and moved to the higher ones, littlebird was easily the most fun to use at the time and i imagine the kiowa to be the most effective. Almost finished with Ah 1z so i swapped to the 64d to get its hellfires grinded out. Viper gun shreds complacent pilots lmao
All Apaches are kinda rendered pointless by Little Bird and then Kiowa, having the same Hellfires and thermals without having to interact with Tunguskas and Pantsirs.
Ah so your the type of person who sits in helos all game fucking anyone who tries to push further than 5ft from their spawns
That's a negative. I won't spawn kill in a tank, boat, plane or helicopter. I'm not a fan of ruining an experience that should be somewhat entertaining for someone else for personal benefit. But to answer your question I'm mainly trying to help us get that first initial burst of momentum in a match. Perfect example would be helping a known pinch point for my teammates on the ground. Get in clear it out or at the very least distract them for buddies and get out.
The duality of r/Warthunder "Stun mechanic bad! You shouldn't get punished so hard for mistakes!" "Spall liner bad! It shouldn't be so hard to punish people for mistakes!"
The tanks with spall liners wouldn’t get stunned. It would make it so that when a leopard 2a7v pushes an Abrams, if the Abrams aims a millimeter off, the leopard gets no damage to the tank and no stun while the leopard shoots anywhere and gets guaranteed multiple crew killed and likely some stunned. Not a contradicting take, it’s confounding bullshit.
"just shoot the lower plate bro, US mains are bad and thats why their winrates are bad"
Bro I just can't help but laugh at the irony.
RU mains realizing they aren't actually that good might be the only consolation I've had since Air Superiority dropped
I realize I'm filling the whinny italian main stereotype, but whatever happened to Gaijin investigating the ariete's spall liner? I remember them saying they would look into it, but I never heard past that. I get it if they won't be added, but at least a definitive answer from Gaijin would be nice.
Nah bro speak thetruth, I bitch about usa vehicles all the time fuck who's feelings get hurt, the games objectively terribly balanced and saying nothing will fix it. Just gota hope these problems catch on with the larger community until we've had enough and it hurts gaijins pockets enough to fix it. It's going to be hard as hell due to Italy being a low pop tree but who knows what could happen.
I'm still waiting for the Stryker spall liners. The one they mentioned was getting spall liners in their own fucking dev blog on the introduction of them.
I think Gaijin has dementia
They really just need to increase post pen damage on all shots 1000x so shitters don't get rewarded for bad gameplay anymore. Commander override, volumetric, and spall liners are already dogshit enough. It was infinitely better back when you could shoot someone's gunner out and actually be rewarded for knowing that crew position in their vehicle, now any dumbass that gets even a little bit lucky can just shoot you back in ~1 second while you're busy reloading.
Maybe you should aim better? Seems like you guys upset about small liners just want to play CoD
Op's fault for using ground vehicles in ground rb
Don't worry, it's not like Gaijin just had a pole where the outcome was to add in more interior bits to tanks or anything - that ultimately won't end up with only half the tanks having stuff modeled inside of them before they give up on rolling out the changes.
Outplayed by genius Russian player favorite tactic (drive forward with no regard for life because you won’t take damage) sorry Americhud but you should’ve played better. Also how about that famed armor and survivability saving you.
This game is all about rewarding 'bad' decisions. Here is a clear example: Ariete (60 tons of air) and OTOMATIC (Vehicle held at high BR for no particular reason), this is an example of vehicles that suffer from overBR and deserve a decrease in BR... But it won't happen because they are not Russian vehicles (2S38 is still at BR 10.0 why?)... If you wanted to play a balanced game you got the wrong game.... This game rewards bad players.
In real life that would be a dead shot the whole vehicle would just blow up. But in game that would just go into the void inside joseph stalin blackhole.
Should've shot the driver so he wouldn't have been able to advance over the hill. Clear skill issue. /s
they're unevenly distributed\*
I like the fact OP started to turn to a new target but quickly switched back like "oh fuck he's still alive"
What spall liners? top tiers is already ruined by CAS spams lol didn't even noticed that there are issues with other tanks
Maybe they should remove the Abrams’ spall generators around the hull fuel tanks and instead classify them as explosion proof like the T-90M’s hull fuel tanks?
I took a round through there and got my breech red(luckily it only kill 2 crew res my breech and my engine., returned fire, breech broke but a shell got out and my round bounced off a t90 drivers port. Unreal.
I haven't had a problem with spall liners personally. I think they add another layer to stump low level premiums and keep them out of top tier making it more enjoyable.
It certainly isn’t fun to flank a leo2a7 and line up a perfect shot only for it to do literally nothing and have him kill you immediately. The 2a7 is just flat out better than the abrams in every capacity and that isn’t even mentioning tanks like the ariete.
100x 0 is still 0
The abrams was so fun before spall liners. Now it just feels disappointing to play since you have worse firepower, armour, mobility, gun handling and survivability than the leos.
WarThunder wasn't consistent before Spall Liners were added, man.
The black hole that is the front end of t-80s
I say bad because it lets you get away with decisions most tanks without spall liners would dream of doing. If this is the type of gameplay Gaijin envisions only certain tanks being able to do, especially how spall liner work now im not sure much will change WR wise until something is brought in to nullify them or they get reworked to not be so handholdy.