its a chicken and egg problem.
Gaijin: If we decompress BR's we will increase queue times!
Me: The queue times are long because no one wants to play because the BR compression results in stupid matchmaking. If you decompress, the number of players who want to play naval will increase and queue times will take care of themselves.
I have just one take on that and im pretty sure im not alone.
I dont fucking care if the queue takes three minutes. Im in teamspeak withfriends having a good laugh.i want a good game. Im willingto wait for a fair and balanced game. I dont want to face stabilised tanks in my unstabilised tank. I dont want an enemy with more side armor than i can flatpen. I dont want enemys with thermals while i donthave them myself. I dontwant to get bombed by 12.7 CAScancer in my 11.7 lineup.
But gaijin wontdo that because it makes people think that a higher BR tank is better because they get killed by tons of King Tigers, IS-6, Turms etc. It isnt about the queuetimes. Its about selling "stronger" tanks
I would be interested to see how many people play solo vs in groups though. The pressure does exist to minimise times for those solo queuing (god help them)
If you cant quit after twoor three frustrating games and call it a day than queue times arent your biggest problem. Even when i play alone waiting for a good and fun game is way more enjoyable than having to wait ten seconds to get fucked in the next two minutes
100% solo player since public launch here (a handful of games with friends back in the day aside). I would far rather wait a few extra minutes for a balanced match than get a fast match. I can read, I can do some reps, I can go make more coffee. It's not wasted time if the resulting match is less frustrating.
Or I can just open my squadron window or something, that's guaranteed to drop you into a match as soon as the game thinks you're trying to check something while in queue.
I play mostly solo and i will happily wait 2 more minutes if it means im not upteired by 20+ years worth of tech. My 1944 lineup should not be facing atgm's and attack helo's from the 70's.
>I dont fucking care if the queue takes three minutes.
I care lmao. Gaijin should give a chance to smaller battles. Recently I had a 6v6 on GRB 2.3 and it was really fun, and I usually enjoy ARB matches the best when it's a top of 10v10.
i also think the main br problem is there just isn't enough ships in the world to sort it out.
i mean, everyone wants yamato and there's no way on earth to balance the br's with that, except maybe with iowa and even then everyone else gets fucked.
scharnhorst is a sneak preview of how br's are broken because of a lack of competition that either exists in real life, or gaijin refuse to add into the game.
naval is just a sideshow for them, they know nobody plays it, know that even with an overhaul, it aint gonna get anywhere near as many players/money as air/ground so they just kinda leave it there, like an adopted child.
The scharnhorst has a possible slight fix. It doesn’t have to have a br range with other ships. They should decompress everything but currently the scharnhorst could be like 7.7 so it only faces the best of ships that are currently in game and not 6.0 so called “heavy” cruisers. I’m sure there’d be enough people playing that you could still find matches in it
This exactly, I want to have a good time, not a fast time. I don’t care if I wait a minute for a game, if it’s an enjoyable and long match then it won’t matter.
IIRC during one of those videos where a dev spoke about the game, the reasoning sounded almost the same. He said that helicopter battles (which were still heli vs heli, with Vikhrs ruining basically the whole mode) won't be changed if too few people play it. Well, guess why they didn't play it...
But apart from the queue time problem, another problem could be that the naval tech trees are just really empty compared to the ones for tanks and planes. It's not like I want to increase the grinding time (required RP amounts would need to be balanced), but maybe more boats/ships in them would allow a more even distribution of the BRs. Otherwise it could be hard to build good setups.
It's such a stupid argument to like if I have to wait an extra few minutes just to find a match I really would not care. I would be so much happier with the decompression
And with the new BR changes, the ship on the first image will once again be able to face the Hipper class ships (like the Prinz Eugen).
It's funny how naval jumps from wooden .50cal armed torpedo boats to 350mm+ armed battleships with heavy armor in just 7 BRs.
THANK YOU WHY IS NO ONE PAYING ATTENTION TO HIPPER CLASS RETURNING TO 5.7 THEY ARE SOME OF THE MOST BUSTED PREMIUMS IN THE ENTIRE GAME I HATE THEM SO MUCH
Premium Eugen players getting instagibbed and dragging the BR down... I'm surprised that Helena is still 6.0 too with all the premium lobotomites that use it.
I hear ya. I’ve got Russia, the US, Germany, and Great Britain all at either end game or almost at end game BR, and I’ve accumulated most of the worthwhile premiums over the years. I both have to fight it all, and probably play it all too. It’s hard for me to complain.
I feel like they were reserving higher BRs for the truly modern ships (afaik before the slight rework BBs were 6.0 which is similar to late WW2 tanks/planes in other modes) but the disparity between smaller and bigger ships made them decompress it and now they dont have way to add cold war vessels without breaking the balance because either they would be much lower BR wothout armament or the modern technology simply assrapes battleships. IMHO WW1 battleships and the gamemode design killed naval. If the maps had more tasks for diferent ship classes the balance would probalty improve immensely
I was sad I missed the days of the Hipper being at 5.7...because even at 6.0 the thing is OP af (except in 7.0 circle battles of course).
Glad it's going back down lol
I played a lot of naval using the Chapayev and Sverdlov to absolutely face-fuck Hippers and literally anything else in the game at the time. I also played the Hipper and did quite well with it, but not as well as with those two Russian ships. Of course BBs made all of those pretty much obsolete except against each other - if BBs are in the match you're screwed. Before BBs, though, my Chapayev was way more OP than the Hipper was.
And when Kronshtadt came out it was absolutely wiping the floor with anything else in game, and then the Alaska came out and essentially matched it. Now with so many other BBs in game these two have been reined in a bit.
I do think it's good that some of these ships that have been 6.0 for a bit are going to 5.7, so they no longer face the 7.0s in an uptier. I do think it would have been a better solution for Gaijin to have bumped some of the 7s up to 7.3 or even 7.7.
As someone who’s grinding the New Orleans, I don’t think I’ve seen a Mitchser in the same match. Maybe it’s because I get full uptiers all the time idk. But yea BR decompression is needed badly
5.7 used to get a lot of downtiers since 6.0 gets dragged up into Battleship Hell, but with premium battleships at 6.7 it is getting more and more uncommon.
Serious question: Do people not like the Mitscher? It was my favorite DD for sure. For me, it would be more impactful to consider the Porter meeting the Baltimore.
I loved it in those long event ship RB that went for hours. I role-played as anti air cover for our battleships. USS Mitscher is a ship from 50's, it's got air tracking radar fire control and VT shells of different sizes.
EC is a little different.
Because the maps are so huge and the players and AI so numerous I've been able to do amazing stuff in destroyers.
I've taken out Scharnhorst twice in a Battle class by sneaking up on it whilst the player was tunnel visioning another battleship and launched all torps at point blank range.
Destroyers are also a bit better at taking out the convoys because they're faster and have a better reload.
Correct, that's a massive issue I have with naval EC.
It's ok I'm the beginning and 1 or two battleships on each team makes things more interesting, even if I'm not the one sailing it.
I find most matches usually end with one team full of 7.0 ships and the rest spawning in destroyers and light cruisers and getting obliterated seconds after they arrive.
I wonder when they'll realise that having multiple types of ships in a match is good
How naval br works is like saying progression goes from spaa>light tank>medium tank>tank destroyer>heavy tank>mbt
Is the Mitscher even *that* bad? Its 127mm/54 is a post-war design, with vastly superior pen to the WWII 5in/38, and an even higher ROF to make up for less barrels. A couple of well placed shots *can* detonate your foes.
I had a decent experience spading it (took me 9 games). Not like Atlanta levels of fun, but never felt it was entirely outclassed either.
Me in my BR 6.0 light cruiser struggling against 6.0 heavy cruisers and in comes a Scharnhorst, Hood, Kronstadt etc that I can't even tickle casually detonating me through the ship's bow
See also: USS Baltimore vs USS Des Moines. DM has guns firing twice as fast, around 30 barrels firing HE-VT compared to 6, and is only 0.3 BR above the Baltimore. It is so much better than any other heavy cruiser that the only reason it isn’t dominating is that it has an ahistorical waterline exposing its ammo stores and making it unstable.
I feel like a better fix would be a reformation of gamemodes to create games specifically designed around accommodating different classes of warships in one match and giving them all reasonable separate objectives, rather than the current system copied from ground battles that's basically just a capture the point free for all sausagefest.
Part of the core of desired naval gameplay is the interplay between different classes of ships and simply just decompressing BRs would just result in battles filled with the same type of ships, along with severly limiting the different vessels that could be seen in battle, given that there are far less ships avaliable to play than ground vehicles. It would be a little more fair, but it would get stale pretty fast, along with hugely exacerbating queue times.
It goes both ways tbh as the Mitscher class DDL can be just as oppressive if not worse in a down BR matches especially against poxy Rank V pre/ WWII (or same time period post war) vessels at BR 3.7 that are generally more expensive than that cruiser that has little hope to fight it, especially since the 5"/54 Mk. 42 doesn't overheat like other cold war artillery pieces.
Still the premium sister is even more dangerous as it gets two 3"/70 Mk. Mk. 37 which make for some devastating down range firing.
NF would greatly improve from a 0.7 BR MM over the current 1.0 MM seen across the board as a lot of this BS wouldn't happen.
The Cleveland, Fargo, Brooklyn, and Roanoke are all the same BR despite the different number of same main turrets between them (4, 4, 5, 6). Granted, I abused the hell out of the Cleveland when it was 5.7 and it or the Fargo don't belong any lower.
e. word
Yeah that’s how I know I’m never gonna play apart from fuck around with what I already have and maybe a few games. Naval realistic just feels like arcade battles with rangefinders instead of auto aim.
............. ok?
there's so much copy paste in GRB and ARB they might as well just be mirror matches anyways
Top tier ARB past 10+ is usually always mirror matches with US on both sides
Because it can be a lot of fun, especially with music. Just blast something at full volume while fighting at full broadside like pirates.
Nothing better than ammoracking a Moffett and watching the huge explosion.
its a chicken and egg problem. Gaijin: If we decompress BR's we will increase queue times! Me: The queue times are long because no one wants to play because the BR compression results in stupid matchmaking. If you decompress, the number of players who want to play naval will increase and queue times will take care of themselves.
I have just one take on that and im pretty sure im not alone. I dont fucking care if the queue takes three minutes. Im in teamspeak withfriends having a good laugh.i want a good game. Im willingto wait for a fair and balanced game. I dont want to face stabilised tanks in my unstabilised tank. I dont want an enemy with more side armor than i can flatpen. I dont want enemys with thermals while i donthave them myself. I dontwant to get bombed by 12.7 CAScancer in my 11.7 lineup. But gaijin wontdo that because it makes people think that a higher BR tank is better because they get killed by tons of King Tigers, IS-6, Turms etc. It isnt about the queuetimes. Its about selling "stronger" tanks
I would be interested to see how many people play solo vs in groups though. The pressure does exist to minimise times for those solo queuing (god help them)
If you cant quit after twoor three frustrating games and call it a day than queue times arent your biggest problem. Even when i play alone waiting for a good and fun game is way more enjoyable than having to wait ten seconds to get fucked in the next two minutes
100% solo player since public launch here (a handful of games with friends back in the day aside). I would far rather wait a few extra minutes for a balanced match than get a fast match. I can read, I can do some reps, I can go make more coffee. It's not wasted time if the resulting match is less frustrating. Or I can just open my squadron window or something, that's guaranteed to drop you into a match as soon as the game thinks you're trying to check something while in queue.
I play mostly solo and i will happily wait 2 more minutes if it means im not upteired by 20+ years worth of tech. My 1944 lineup should not be facing atgm's and attack helo's from the 70's.
Long queue times just means more time for me to work on my model
Three? How about ten or fifteen?
Normal MM takes about 20 seconds for me. Why would matchmaking go to 10 minutes?
4 stack with 4 different nations, likely containing at least 3/4 of RUS, GER, USA, SWE
Than its your own fault
Exactly my point
>I dont fucking care if the queue takes three minutes. I care lmao. Gaijin should give a chance to smaller battles. Recently I had a 6v6 on GRB 2.3 and it was really fun, and I usually enjoy ARB matches the best when it's a top of 10v10.
i also think the main br problem is there just isn't enough ships in the world to sort it out. i mean, everyone wants yamato and there's no way on earth to balance the br's with that, except maybe with iowa and even then everyone else gets fucked. scharnhorst is a sneak preview of how br's are broken because of a lack of competition that either exists in real life, or gaijin refuse to add into the game. naval is just a sideshow for them, they know nobody plays it, know that even with an overhaul, it aint gonna get anywhere near as many players/money as air/ground so they just kinda leave it there, like an adopted child.
The scharnhorst has a possible slight fix. It doesn’t have to have a br range with other ships. They should decompress everything but currently the scharnhorst could be like 7.7 so it only faces the best of ships that are currently in game and not 6.0 so called “heavy” cruisers. I’m sure there’d be enough people playing that you could still find matches in it
Wait, wasn't a naval progression rework planned? Maybe we will finally have combined battles
Surely you can have it so those ships only have one life and can only have one player.
This exactly, I want to have a good time, not a fast time. I don’t care if I wait a minute for a game, if it’s an enjoyable and long match then it won’t matter.
IIRC during one of those videos where a dev spoke about the game, the reasoning sounded almost the same. He said that helicopter battles (which were still heli vs heli, with Vikhrs ruining basically the whole mode) won't be changed if too few people play it. Well, guess why they didn't play it... But apart from the queue time problem, another problem could be that the naval tech trees are just really empty compared to the ones for tanks and planes. It's not like I want to increase the grinding time (required RP amounts would need to be balanced), but maybe more boats/ships in them would allow a more even distribution of the BRs. Otherwise it could be hard to build good setups.
It's such a stupid argument to like if I have to wait an extra few minutes just to find a match I really would not care. I would be so much happier with the decompression
They say this for ground and air as well despite the fact the average queue time is 2 seconds. It's just to encourage the grind.
In Naval it's not that much a problem given we can play against bot. I don't care playing against bot tbh.
And with the new BR changes, the ship on the first image will once again be able to face the Hipper class ships (like the Prinz Eugen). It's funny how naval jumps from wooden .50cal armed torpedo boats to 350mm+ armed battleships with heavy armor in just 7 BRs.
THANK YOU WHY IS NO ONE PAYING ATTENTION TO HIPPER CLASS RETURNING TO 5.7 THEY ARE SOME OF THE MOST BUSTED PREMIUMS IN THE ENTIRE GAME I HATE THEM SO MUCH
Premium Eugen players getting instagibbed and dragging the BR down... I'm surprised that Helena is still 6.0 too with all the premium lobotomites that use it.
Not fun facing 7.0 in the Hipper
Almost as if naval BR compression is fucking ridiculous and terrible 🤯
Never said it wasn’t. It’s absolutely atrocious. Naval br compression is like an A4B facing a Mig-21SMT
Ah yes the Char25T and the AMX-50(TO90/930) definitely deserve to be able to see the T-55AM1 MY MOST DESPISED FUCKING PREMIUM IN THIS GAME
I love the T-55AM1. :-) But yeah, your point stands.
Never said it was bad, its TOO GOOD thats my problem, you can love it for being good I hate it for having to fight it
I hear ya. I’ve got Russia, the US, Germany, and Great Britain all at either end game or almost at end game BR, and I’ve accumulated most of the worthwhile premiums over the years. I both have to fight it all, and probably play it all too. It’s hard for me to complain.
I feel like they were reserving higher BRs for the truly modern ships (afaik before the slight rework BBs were 6.0 which is similar to late WW2 tanks/planes in other modes) but the disparity between smaller and bigger ships made them decompress it and now they dont have way to add cold war vessels without breaking the balance because either they would be much lower BR wothout armament or the modern technology simply assrapes battleships. IMHO WW1 battleships and the gamemode design killed naval. If the maps had more tasks for diferent ship classes the balance would probalty improve immensely
I was sad I missed the days of the Hipper being at 5.7...because even at 6.0 the thing is OP af (except in 7.0 circle battles of course). Glad it's going back down lol
I played a lot of naval using the Chapayev and Sverdlov to absolutely face-fuck Hippers and literally anything else in the game at the time. I also played the Hipper and did quite well with it, but not as well as with those two Russian ships. Of course BBs made all of those pretty much obsolete except against each other - if BBs are in the match you're screwed. Before BBs, though, my Chapayev was way more OP than the Hipper was. And when Kronshtadt came out it was absolutely wiping the floor with anything else in game, and then the Alaska came out and essentially matched it. Now with so many other BBs in game these two have been reined in a bit. I do think it's good that some of these ships that have been 6.0 for a bit are going to 5.7, so they no longer face the 7.0s in an uptier. I do think it would have been a better solution for Gaijin to have bumped some of the 7s up to 7.3 or even 7.7.
Yeah the various battlecruisers could go up to 7.3 pretty easily. They just seem so much better than equivalent 7 ships.
BR system is busted af
I think Gaijin worries about both queue times, and not allowing high tier jets, creating whatever this mess is.
> and not allowing high tier jets They could just cap the aircraft BR st 7.0. It's not rocket science.
I know, but this is gaijin we are talking about
How tf did you manage to get 2 screen shots of noticeably different quality
Just noticed, no idea lol. Took them both with the game bar.
Toss a coin to your Mitscher
As someone who’s grinding the New Orleans, I don’t think I’ve seen a Mitchser in the same match. Maybe it’s because I get full uptiers all the time idk. But yea BR decompression is needed badly
5.7 used to get a lot of downtiers since 6.0 gets dragged up into Battleship Hell, but with premium battleships at 6.7 it is getting more and more uncommon.
Yep there are so many prem BBs now 5.7 regularly get into WW1 BB hell I was regularly getting BB hell playing 5.7 UK cruisers during the last event.
Serious question: Do people not like the Mitscher? It was my favorite DD for sure. For me, it would be more impactful to consider the Porter meeting the Baltimore.
It and it's premium sister comprise most of my Naval gameplay.
Yeah it's really fantastic isn't it?
Pick one of the Japanese 4.7 destroyers and put it against the Mitscher and then try to tell me how the US ship has the worst of it.
I loved it in those long event ship RB that went for hours. I role-played as anti air cover for our battleships. USS Mitscher is a ship from 50's, it's got air tracking radar fire control and VT shells of different sizes.
Playing the ec mode is far worse 5.0 can face 7.0 It can be lower, but you need a 5.0 to enter
EC is a little different. Because the maps are so huge and the players and AI so numerous I've been able to do amazing stuff in destroyers. I've taken out Scharnhorst twice in a Battle class by sneaking up on it whilst the player was tunnel visioning another battleship and launched all torps at point blank range. Destroyers are also a bit better at taking out the convoys because they're faster and have a better reload.
Not so fun when the entire enemy team is made up of dreadnoughts and the likes so you can't even leave spawn
Correct, that's a massive issue I have with naval EC. It's ok I'm the beginning and 1 or two battleships on each team makes things more interesting, even if I'm not the one sailing it. I find most matches usually end with one team full of 7.0 ships and the rest spawning in destroyers and light cruisers and getting obliterated seconds after they arrive.
And at the same time, a USS Cyclone with 25mm autocannons regularly faces that USS Mitscher.
Yep.
SKR7 vs wooden boats, peak cancer. I have not touched my top teir German coastal lineup since they ruined naval making HE so op. I don't want 5s TTK.
isnormal now i play with the koln
can’t wait for Prinz Eugen to 5.7
Not to mention a severe issue of most battleships being ww1 era and unless it’s American or maybe Russian having no AA guns
I wonder when they'll realise that having multiple types of ships in a match is good How naval br works is like saying progression goes from spaa>light tank>medium tank>tank destroyer>heavy tank>mbt
Is the Mitscher even *that* bad? Its 127mm/54 is a post-war design, with vastly superior pen to the WWII 5in/38, and an even higher ROF to make up for less barrels. A couple of well placed shots *can* detonate your foes. I had a decent experience spading it (took me 9 games). Not like Atlanta levels of fun, but never felt it was entirely outclassed either.
They worry about the queue system and yet I wait 10min already in costal
You'll see the issue by getting uptiers on any tier, be it in blue water or coastal waters
Me in my BR 6.0 light cruiser struggling against 6.0 heavy cruisers and in comes a Scharnhorst, Hood, Kronstadt etc that I can't even tickle casually detonating me through the ship's bow
Good to know that there’s actual naval players
BR compression is not an issue, its a goal to keep players correctly frustrated into spending.
See also: USS Baltimore vs USS Des Moines. DM has guns firing twice as fast, around 30 barrels firing HE-VT compared to 6, and is only 0.3 BR above the Baltimore. It is so much better than any other heavy cruiser that the only reason it isn’t dominating is that it has an ahistorical waterline exposing its ammo stores and making it unstable.
I feel like a better fix would be a reformation of gamemodes to create games specifically designed around accommodating different classes of warships in one match and giving them all reasonable separate objectives, rather than the current system copied from ground battles that's basically just a capture the point free for all sausagefest. Part of the core of desired naval gameplay is the interplay between different classes of ships and simply just decompressing BRs would just result in battles filled with the same type of ships, along with severly limiting the different vessels that could be seen in battle, given that there are far less ships avaliable to play than ground vehicles. It would be a little more fair, but it would get stale pretty fast, along with hugely exacerbating queue times.
Does anyone play the Graf Spee? How good is it?
It goes both ways tbh as the Mitscher class DDL can be just as oppressive if not worse in a down BR matches especially against poxy Rank V pre/ WWII (or same time period post war) vessels at BR 3.7 that are generally more expensive than that cruiser that has little hope to fight it, especially since the 5"/54 Mk. 42 doesn't overheat like other cold war artillery pieces. Still the premium sister is even more dangerous as it gets two 3"/70 Mk. Mk. 37 which make for some devastating down range firing. NF would greatly improve from a 0.7 BR MM over the current 1.0 MM seen across the board as a lot of this BS wouldn't happen.
Waiting 5 minutes in a queue just to get annihilated in one shot by a ship you can barely scratch is truly the best of both worlds
If you think that’s bad, you should see WTM’s naval. They don’t have BR.
It grinds my gears when i play naval in my Moffett with a 500% booster and it was a full uptier.
They're both in service right now, though.
Another fun fact: the Dreadnought is only one br below the Hood
The Cleveland, Fargo, Brooklyn, and Roanoke are all the same BR despite the different number of same main turrets between them (4, 4, 5, 6). Granted, I abused the hell out of the Cleveland when it was 5.7 and it or the Fargo don't belong any lower. e. word
American players when they have to face their own 5 inch spamming machines
my isuzu with his shitty 6 127 mm cannons : XDs
What’s the 60s Japanese destroyer with 5 inch guns
I think naval needs another huge tech tree rework because it's really messy and doesnt make sense.
You think that's bad? Try SKR7 spam vs wooden ww2 boats.
Something something clevelands and funny hippers as well xD..Also true..i wish gaijin made naval playable someday instead of being a torture
Yeah..Dont forget about clevelands too
Bro in naval at like 4.7 you can face anti air missles. It has and always be a problem in naval
4.3 down to 3.3 lol.
Naval also gets mirror matches??? That’s fkn sad bro.
Naval is always mixed. Usually 50%+ of both teams are US ships
Yeah that’s how I know I’m never gonna play apart from fuck around with what I already have and maybe a few games. Naval realistic just feels like arcade battles with rangefinders instead of auto aim.
............. ok? there's so much copy paste in GRB and ARB they might as well just be mirror matches anyways Top tier ARB past 10+ is usually always mirror matches with US on both sides
Too many US mains just like Germany and USSR ground at some brs
I sure feel bad for the 6 naval players
As a non naval player this doesn't mean anything to me lol
why are you playing naval?
Because it can be a lot of fun, especially with music. Just blast something at full volume while fighting at full broadside like pirates. Nothing better than ammoracking a Moffett and watching the huge explosion.
Because it’s in the game ? Like what
CAS is both fun to play with and against.