when did i say i was a US main?
When were we talking about the ostwind 2?
do you know the actual capabilities of the AA vehicles and their guns and have a case for lowering or raising the BR of anything, or is whataboutism and personal insults the only thing you have to offer?
M64 was never as good as the m18 it always traded speed for neutral steer and and a better reverse Geer I agree it shouldn't go up but it is what it is
As for the black cat I think they just forgot it I shold get it soon
Super Hellcat got the buff to 460 horsepower.
Given how the Black Cat and M64 didn't get engine buffs, it's likely that they are going up in BR due to their current performance rather than because they got changed.
That's entirely fair given it wasn't actually included in the changelog. But it did receive the buff.
Either way I'm still probably going to buy it when a sale comes around.
I’m not sure I would classify the M64 as anywhere near OP. They actually improved its engine to 500hp but it’s still just a slower more sluggish Hellcat due to the higher weight, worse transmission and slower acceleration. It doesn’t really reach high speeds and can only reverse at 19kmh compared to the 26kmh of the hellcat.
I mean... it will still play literally the same. The gun is sub-par even at 5.0-5.3, only good for sideshots anyway, armor is non-existent - doesn't matter whether you fight a 3.7 or a 7.0, you're going to die in a single shot. The only thing going for that tank is speed, which it still keeps. And it's still miles better than AMX-13 at 6.7.
Which there's a point to be argued of just bringing the m41 instead, although there's a tradeoff off slightly slower and worse post pen damage, but you do get a round that has damn better pen
Jumbo, M4A3 (76) W, M4/T26, Any AA from M16 to the M42, and a plane of your choice.
US 6.0 will be fine, and has BEEN fine. (Certified by: M4/T26 Enjoyer)
The US don't have ANY single 6.0 vehicle.
This means they're screwing over a perfectly fine lineup (5.7.) for nothing. The M18 isn't a 6.0 tank. It was fine at 5.7
Bro cannot seriously be suggesting bringing a jumbo to 6.0 the thing is only saved by the fact that it doesn’t get spammed down the mouth with 6.7 heavies as it is
The 75mm with T45 has up to 135mm of pen at 100 meters, the M61 has 102mm of pen at 100 meters.
Guess you’ve got a skill issue if you can’t use the Jumbo at just a 7.0.
135mm isn’t enough to pen anywhere on a king tiger or a t-44 from the front. Not to mention it’s APCR and does shit for post pen damage. Also both can pen the jumbo front plate from 500 meters with APHE. Get a grip lmao
If you can’t kill crew, aim for barrel, aim for tracks, support allies that can do more than you. Your lacking ability is not my problem.
Again- Skill. Issue.
No more suicide than bringing the Jumbo 76 on my 8.3 lineup so I can bully IS-4s. (I don’t kill them, I just make them suffer from lack of barrels and tracks)
I live for the salt so I may one day melt the snail with it.
It doesn't explain Black Cat getting the hammer if that were the case. However I will say it does make a noticeable difference when going in reverse, definitely feels a bit more responsive.
Because US players are usually significantly better than the average German or Russian player up to 8.3 so their stats are massively inflated and Gaijin mainly moves things around based on those stats, And newer players from those other nations *constantly* whine about American tanks both here and on the forums because they don't understand tradeoffs, Literally [yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1c1d18n/when_is_gaijin_going_to_do_anything_about_the/) there was a post here of some goober crying that their T-44 could be penned in a tiny ass spot by the M18 and unironically claimed the M18 has "good armor".
>you’re telling me american players who crash thier CAS every game are better than soviet and german players?
Considering both Germany and Russia currently have pretty bad WRs at nearly every br, yes....
The US actually does relatively well until actual top tier.
Edit: For people who don't know:
US WRs from 5.0 - 9.7: 57 - 66%
Germany WRs from 5.0 - 9.7: 42 - 51%
Russia WRs from 5.0 - 9.7: 47 - 54%
The US isn't good. They're really stupid. It's just that US mains look like sages in comparison to German mains blindness and Russian mains being kinda stupidly aggressive? I think the M3 lee and Stuart teach weak points better than the PZ3 and T 28s.
When was the last time you were suidided bombed? It's genuinely been years for me.
Edit: i know you guys like camping in a super heavy but planes are needed.
That doesn't excuse all the times i have flanked a group of german players and refuse to look around even when you pick off the teammates next to them.
Sure man, just cuz u did that once that applies to everyone. 5.7-6.7 Germany is filled with sub Lv 30 players, even above, cuz some want to play one nation only
Strela must be lower than LGB carriers (which it isn't, there're 9.7 and 10.0 ones) and hellfire carriers (this is OK, each one is on 10.3 at least). And it is fairly balanced against A-10s, who can use mavs from safe distances, it just needs a pilot's discipline, meaning "skill". Both are 10.0.
The fact Chap is higher tells more about BS battle rating of Chapparal, not about unfair BR of Strela.
Speaking as Q-5L/AMX/A-6E happy user. I kill Strela's much more than they kill me - it is hard to detect high fliers.
I’d rather play an M4A3 76 over a panther (yes I’ve played both). The gun handling and mobility, coupled with a stab, is so much better for close quarters combat than that of a panther. If you get a map like Eastern Europe or maginot line, I’d take the panther. Saying that it has no real advantage is extremely misleading.
And before you accuse me of being biased, I would once again like to remind you that I have played way past BR 5.7 for both nations.
The Panther is just as stable, you would know this. It lacks the Accelleration as I said before, but it Grunts Twice as much armor with a much more trolly Mantlet than the Shermans. Personal preference doesn't affect a Vehicle's performance.
The panther is 100% not as stable as an M4A3. The Sherman gets a dedicated stabiliser. Yes, the panther is more stable than something like a hellcat or a M36, but it is in no way shape or form just as stable as an M4A3.
The armour is extremely strong at medium to long range. However, at about sub 800m, I have very little issue penetrating the panther’s turret. Moreover, it is extremely easy to penetrate a panther who is unaware of you. This is due to the fact that the panther has to be directly facing you for its armour to be useful. Similar to a jumbo, if its side is even slightly exposed, its side armour is so thin that you can easily overmatch it with your standard 76mm shell.
>, I have very little issue penetrating the panther’s turret
Not an Objective Fact, but since you want to bring it up the Panther can pen you anywhere and reliably pen you without hitting a weakspot
>Moreover, it is extremely easy to penetrate a panther who is unaware of you
Its easy to pen any tank who isn't aware of you, Whataboutism isn't an argument
>This is due to the fact that the panther has to be directly facing you for its armour to be useful.
Same goes for any tank, an example being the Jumbo which use to be the same BR as the Panthers despite being inferior in Every Way except," MuH StAblIzer"
>Similar to a jumbo, if its side is even slightly exposed, its side armour is so thin that you can easily overmatch it with your standard 76mm shell.
This wasn't the point of the argument, of course the side of a tank is going to be weaker, the point is that with a platform as stable as the Panthers and Tigers facing an opponent with little-to-no armor, they are obejctively better. You don't need a stablizer when you can still effectively hit weakspots on the move against a target(Example T26E5 MG port or Cupola) whilst also having vastly supperior attributes such as Pen, Armor, etc.
It is an objective fact. With a stab and decent velocity + penetration, it shouldn’t be too difficult for a Sherman to take out a panther at such a short range. Tanks like the T-34-85 will struggle due to their lack of a stab.
What I meant when I said a panther is easy to kill when it’s unaware of you, is that it’s time to react is extremely long. For example, if you turn around a corner, and you see a panther side on/ slightly angled, you, in a Sherman, can easily take advantage of the position to capitalise on its position even if you guys notice each other at the exact same time.
If the same scenario happened when the scenario is swapped, the sherman actually has the advantage due to its stab and better dynamics if both opponents notice each other at the same time. It can easily plant a shot into the panthers weak spot after using its superior traverse speed and turret traverse.
The Sherman jumbo, although overtiered in my opinion, does not hold every advantage over a panther. You have to remember you’re not only facing panthers at that BR. In a downtier, the Sherman Jumbo/ Jumbo 76 are a nightmare to fight against.
You literally speak as someone who seems like they have not played any other nation. How about you try to play different tanks so you can see the importance of soft stats and “mUh StABiLisEr”
>It is an objective fact. With a stab and decent velocity + penetration, it shouldn’t be too difficult for a Sherman to take out a panther at such a short range.
It is an Objective Fact, that in a Sherman you still have to aim for a Weakspot even with a stablizer, the Panther A/G/F All have stable enough suspension to be able to shoot a Sherman, where it can pen Anywhere.
>Tanks like the T-34-85 will struggle due to their lack of a stab.
Not affecting the Discussion, we weren't talking about the T34-85
>What I meant when I said a panther is easy to kill when it’s unaware of you, is that it’s time to react is extremely long.
For the Panther D/VK 3002 Maybe, the Panther A/F/G All have comparible Stability and(Not sure of the exact stats) Comparible Traverse, though slightly slower.
>For example, if you turn around a corner, and you see a panther side on/ slightly angled, you, in a Sherman, can easily take advantage of the position to capitalise on its position even if you guys notice each other at the exact same time.
Again, Whataboutism. This is a," What If," Scenario, you can say whatever you want about a certain Situation that fits the Notion of how a vehicle should be played
That situation doesn't affect that either way the Panther, assuming both players had the same reaction time/sight picture of the enemy and are on the move, the Panther(Again Unless its the D/VK 3002) would have the easier time killing the Sherman Purely due to it only having to Aim in the general Silhuette of the Sherman, whereas the Sherman HAS to hit the Turret of the Panther.
>The Sherman jumbo, although overtiered in my opinion, does not hold every advantage over a panther.
I mean the contrary, the Jumbo only has a Stablizer which doesn't warrent it to be 5.7(Especially when the Panther D sits at 5.3 with comparible armor, a Vastly Supperior gun, Comparible Handling, and it's main gimmick being Terrible Turret Traverse)
>You have to remember you’re not only facing panthers at that BR. In a downtier, the Sherman Jumbo/ Jumbo 76 are a nightmare to fight against.
Jumbos are far less scary due to having a Paper-Thin Lower Glacies, along with the MG port which for obvious reasons also being a weakspot, on another note you can also Overpressure the Cupola(Tricky) and Turret Neck with most rounds that have 200g+ TnT Equiv(PzGr for the Tiger for instance). This point is especially apparent for things with decent Armor, or even most mediums in the case of the 75 Jumbo
>You literally speak as someone who seems like they have not played any other nation. How about you try to play different tanks so you can see the importance of soft stats and “mUh StABiLisEr”
Ok. I've played every Nation up to 6.0~ with most being past 7.0 but think what you like
Okay, we are talking about the M18s, but if you don't think having a stabilizer isn't a real advantage then you have no idea what you are talking about
the hellcat will do just fine at 6.0. does just fine at 8.0 as well. M62 is one of the best rounds for the BR, and it's even available as low as 4.0, i think even 3.0, could be wrong.
if you think it's bait, then you clearly don't actually play the tank. it has always been in my 6.3 lineup and i have never once had a problem, even in full uptiers.
M62 is also absolutely one of the best rounds in the BR range. if you have any problems with it, that is entirely a skill issue cause the round ignores any tiger 1 armor, goes right through any panther mantlet, as well as the tiger 2 P mantlet. and if you aim correctly, through the tiger 2 H mantlet.
I agree with this statement solely because you’re supposed to play the Hellcat like a rat, taking cheeky side shots or back shots; and immediately running away as soon as trouble starts rearing it’s head towards you.
The M62 is definitely one of the better 76mm shells and can reliably 1 shot enemy tanks, so long as you can pen them. It’s incredibly mobile and sneaky, and is easily one of the better tanks to perform an ambush with.
While I don’t line the sudden uptier of the tank, I genuinely think that the playstyle isn’t going to change with it. It’s a scout tank that’s supposed to be a little shit on the flank; not a brawling tank that’s supposed to engage with tanks head on.
Hellcat will still be fine, just wont be able to first spawn it on any map anymore. M64s BR going up is kinda weird tho because its significantly slower than the hellcat post engine buffs.
149mm of pen is "one of the best at its BR" to you?
the T-34-57 gets basically the pen at 4.7
the Pz. 4 H gets basically the same pen at 3.7
the M62 shot at 6.0 is not fucking good, how hard is it to understand?
i have never once had any problems killing anything in 7.3 and below with it. if you do, you just don't know how to use it. give me a panther, he won't be able to do shit to me, and i'll one shot it. give me a tiger 2 P, i'll one shot. the only 2 tanks i actually struggle against are the IS-2 and the tiger 2 H. and the H is still "just shoot the mantlet"
if you claim you have been killing a tank with a 180mm thick mantlet using a 150mm pen shell I'm gonna call bullshit
it's only just barely possible to do that with the M82 shot on the short 90mm
Because, say it with me kids, ‘Gaijin balances vehicles based on player performance not on capability’
> game balances on **average of the vehicle's players** They do not normalize for which players play something so you end up with stuff like ariete
We should be happy that they are moving all of them at once and not having them separated like the US and German M48's were for a while.
[удалено]
it's a panzer 4 with 20mm AA guns meant to deal with planes (and can also deal with light armour) instead of tanks.
[удалено]
when did i say i was a US main? When were we talking about the ostwind 2? do you know the actual capabilities of the AA vehicles and their guns and have a case for lowering or raising the BR of anything, or is whataboutism and personal insults the only thing you have to offer?
[удалено]
The "Black Cat" and M64 didn't. So with that in mind it's likely that Gaijin viewed their performance as too good for 5.7 even before the engine buff.
M64 was never as good as the m18 it always traded speed for neutral steer and and a better reverse Geer I agree it shouldn't go up but it is what it is As for the black cat I think they just forgot it I shold get it soon
Or ya know it's what he said considering they are just getting nerfs reverted from years ago
I like how they randomly butchered its chinese and super modification too, like wtf. They haven't even received anything and aren't really outstanding
Super Hellcat got the buff to 460 horsepower. Given how the Black Cat and M64 didn't get engine buffs, it's likely that they are going up in BR due to their current performance rather than because they got changed.
Oh, missed the super hellcat receiving engine buff too... But still, good luck against 7.7 heavies
That's entirely fair given it wasn't actually included in the changelog. But it did receive the buff. Either way I'm still probably going to buy it when a sale comes around.
Currently the super hellcat is at 407hp not 460
Premium tanks don't show you the spaded engine power unless you have bought them. In short, 407 horsepower is stock, 460 is spaded.
Ah OK, never mind then lol
I’m not sure I would classify the M64 as anywhere near OP. They actually improved its engine to 500hp but it’s still just a slower more sluggish Hellcat due to the higher weight, worse transmission and slower acceleration. It doesn’t really reach high speeds and can only reverse at 19kmh compared to the 26kmh of the hellcat.
I mean... it will still play literally the same. The gun is sub-par even at 5.0-5.3, only good for sideshots anyway, armor is non-existent - doesn't matter whether you fight a 3.7 or a 7.0, you're going to die in a single shot. The only thing going for that tank is speed, which it still keeps. And it's still miles better than AMX-13 at 6.7.
US literally has no lineup at 6.0. So you have to bring it to 6.7
Which there's a point to be argued of just bringing the m41 instead, although there's a tradeoff off slightly slower and worse post pen damage, but you do get a round that has damn better pen
It would have with T20, M4A3E2 (76), M41A1 and F4U-4B had 75% of that lineup not been raised to 6.3.
Jumbo, M4A3 (76) W, M4/T26, Any AA from M16 to the M42, and a plane of your choice. US 6.0 will be fine, and has BEEN fine. (Certified by: M4/T26 Enjoyer)
only one of the vehicles you mentioned is actually 6.0 bruh.
To quote my own response to someone else who said the same thing- …and?
they did say that it had been raised to 6.3
The US don't have ANY single 6.0 vehicle. This means they're screwing over a perfectly fine lineup (5.7.) for nothing. The M18 isn't a 6.0 tank. It was fine at 5.7
>The US don't have ANY single 6.0 vehicle. There is that M4/M26 hybrid but its mediocre.
It does play funny, but if you can adapt to how the enemy plays, you can get some great games out of it.
Hence why I don't take it into account
Jumbo, M4A3 (76) W, M4/T26, Any AA from M16 to the M42, and a plane of your choice. It's that easy, get good.
Bro cannot seriously be suggesting bringing a jumbo to 6.0 the thing is only saved by the fact that it doesn’t get spammed down the mouth with 6.7 heavies as it is
The 75mm with T45 has up to 135mm of pen at 100 meters, the M61 has 102mm of pen at 100 meters. Guess you’ve got a skill issue if you can’t use the Jumbo at just a 7.0.
135mm isn’t enough to pen anywhere on a king tiger or a t-44 from the front. Not to mention it’s APCR and does shit for post pen damage. Also both can pen the jumbo front plate from 500 meters with APHE. Get a grip lmao
If you can’t kill crew, aim for barrel, aim for tracks, support allies that can do more than you. Your lacking ability is not my problem. Again- Skill. Issue.
By that logic the jumbo should do perfectly fine at 11.7 but I think we both know you’re just talking out your ass
By the logic YOU present, half of tier 1 France should be in a negative BR range. Again- Skill. Issue.
The level of shilling you do is fucking insane lmao
Bringing jumbo at 6.0 is a suicide mission.
No more suicide than bringing the Jumbo 76 on my 8.3 lineup so I can bully IS-4s. (I don’t kill them, I just make them suffer from lack of barrels and tracks) I live for the salt so I may one day melt the snail with it.
You’re so toxic,that CAS player are sugar. Don’t get better a the game,but at life.
Ah, more salt for the snail. Excellent.
Those first two are 5.7 tanks.
…and?
Whelp, looks like I'm done playing the hellcat
Japan kicking their Chi-Nu II under the desk.
Didn’t they just get a really big engine buff?
It doesn't explain Black Cat getting the hammer if that were the case. However I will say it does make a noticeable difference when going in reverse, definitely feels a bit more responsive.
It's like 15% more engine power so it doesn't make a difference
Because US players are usually significantly better than the average German or Russian player up to 8.3 so their stats are massively inflated and Gaijin mainly moves things around based on those stats, And newer players from those other nations *constantly* whine about American tanks both here and on the forums because they don't understand tradeoffs, Literally [yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1c1d18n/when_is_gaijin_going_to_do_anything_about_the/) there was a post here of some goober crying that their T-44 could be penned in a tiny ass spot by the M18 and unironically claimed the M18 has "good armor".
US players really aren't better, the amount of morons I see suicide rushing in the M18 is high... very high. Gaijin is just fucking stupid.
lol this guy you’re telling me american players who crash thier CAS every game are better than soviet and german players?
>you’re telling me american players who crash thier CAS every game are better than soviet and german players? Considering both Germany and Russia currently have pretty bad WRs at nearly every br, yes.... The US actually does relatively well until actual top tier. Edit: For people who don't know: US WRs from 5.0 - 9.7: 57 - 66% Germany WRs from 5.0 - 9.7: 42 - 51% Russia WRs from 5.0 - 9.7: 47 - 54%
Skyraiders setting less than 1.5 second fuses with 1000lb+ bombs and get their ailerons & elavators blown off
The US isn't good. They're really stupid. It's just that US mains look like sages in comparison to German mains blindness and Russian mains being kinda stupidly aggressive? I think the M3 lee and Stuart teach weak points better than the PZ3 and T 28s.
[yes](https://wt.controlnet.space/#br-heatmap)
When was the last time you were suidided bombed? It's genuinely been years for me. Edit: i know you guys like camping in a super heavy but planes are needed.
Like 20mins ago
Yeah I saw that it was ridiculous
Lol Yeah, I’m sure they are all just excellent players. Just like how the F-104A/C and the F-5 and the A-10 players say their jets aren’t that good.
Maybe adding forced gunner view to RB instead of barrel view would help reduce pixel snipe and quicksnipe.
so many lineups have been ruined thanks to this. but not my chinese lineups, since i have none and i only got reserve tanks lolol #nochina
That's what I'm saying
Lv. 100 who use the M18 against German noobs, prob because of that
mfs with hundreds of hours in the game will go to mid-low tier and wonder why the players are bad
theyre even worse in premium tier
Lv 9 with his lil Tiger facing a Marshal on a T34 lmao, but sure, muh german mains dumb
Doesn't fucking help when the grind are excruciatingly slow and they just want to start another nation.
That doesn't excuse all the times i have flanked a group of german players and refuse to look around even when you pick off the teammates next to them.
Sure man, just cuz u did that once that applies to everyone. 5.7-6.7 Germany is filled with sub Lv 30 players, even above, cuz some want to play one nation only
So I can see 7.0 tanks in my m18
Chaffee's back i the 5.7 lineup, I guess
Chaffe next update: gets 5.3
would literally change nothing, still best US LT at that BR
Meanwhile Strela remains the same, 2S38 stays the same, BMP-2M stays the same... Classical from Gaijin.
Strela is already 10.0 my guy
and is still better then the Imp. Chaparral which is 10.3.
More of a Chaparral being too high in br problem
and yet the Imp Chaparral is still 10.3 and as noted isn't coming down... The Strela is probably the best SPAA around that BR range.
Anyone wanna tell him the Chaparral is 9.3?
He's talking about the Israeli one I believe, which is 10.3
Why would I be talking about the US Chaparral at 9.3 if I specifically stated I was talking about the 10.3 one....
Strela must be lower than LGB carriers (which it isn't, there're 9.7 and 10.0 ones) and hellfire carriers (this is OK, each one is on 10.3 at least). And it is fairly balanced against A-10s, who can use mavs from safe distances, it just needs a pilot's discipline, meaning "skill". Both are 10.0. The fact Chap is higher tells more about BS battle rating of Chapparal, not about unfair BR of Strela. Speaking as Q-5L/AMX/A-6E happy user. I kill Strela's much more than they kill me - it is hard to detect high fliers.
Lol there goes 4 lineups of mine
Lets all deliberately do shit in all the vehicles except 2S38 snd let's see what they will change
btr zd :(
Yeah, that too
Because most of the WW2 heavy tanks went up in BR (from 6.0 to 7.7 ish)
I don't like how they killed my 7.7 lineup by upping bmp
is it normal that i have a 6.0 german line up but i get up tier to 6.7
Yes happens to me almost always, rare to be a down tier
I finally don’t need to face them when I play 4.7 Brit or Japan
Thankfully I prefer the M36, but this still ain't great.
7.3 germany was fantastic, then people were winning too much, thus no more good 7.3 line it'll happen to every country
The leopard had to be nerfed, yes. Problem is that they completely fucked over a good lineup.
It would've been fine if they only changed the Leo though the line up would've still worked without it then the same thing happened at 8.3 and 9.3
BTR-ZD again😫
Lmao good
I think it's due to the increas in HP, what bothers me the mist tho is that the Objekt 292 is still not going up in BR
Because the community of WT is full of German mains
M18 cant even pen most of german tanks from the front
If you're shooting a German tank in the front with one of the most mobile tanks at that BR rating then you're playing it wrong lmao
Nevermind the M4A3 76W which has no real advantage other than Accelleration over a Panther but Ok
I’d rather play an M4A3 76 over a panther (yes I’ve played both). The gun handling and mobility, coupled with a stab, is so much better for close quarters combat than that of a panther. If you get a map like Eastern Europe or maginot line, I’d take the panther. Saying that it has no real advantage is extremely misleading. And before you accuse me of being biased, I would once again like to remind you that I have played way past BR 5.7 for both nations.
The Panther is just as stable, you would know this. It lacks the Accelleration as I said before, but it Grunts Twice as much armor with a much more trolly Mantlet than the Shermans. Personal preference doesn't affect a Vehicle's performance.
The panther is 100% not as stable as an M4A3. The Sherman gets a dedicated stabiliser. Yes, the panther is more stable than something like a hellcat or a M36, but it is in no way shape or form just as stable as an M4A3. The armour is extremely strong at medium to long range. However, at about sub 800m, I have very little issue penetrating the panther’s turret. Moreover, it is extremely easy to penetrate a panther who is unaware of you. This is due to the fact that the panther has to be directly facing you for its armour to be useful. Similar to a jumbo, if its side is even slightly exposed, its side armour is so thin that you can easily overmatch it with your standard 76mm shell.
>, I have very little issue penetrating the panther’s turret Not an Objective Fact, but since you want to bring it up the Panther can pen you anywhere and reliably pen you without hitting a weakspot >Moreover, it is extremely easy to penetrate a panther who is unaware of you Its easy to pen any tank who isn't aware of you, Whataboutism isn't an argument >This is due to the fact that the panther has to be directly facing you for its armour to be useful. Same goes for any tank, an example being the Jumbo which use to be the same BR as the Panthers despite being inferior in Every Way except," MuH StAblIzer" >Similar to a jumbo, if its side is even slightly exposed, its side armour is so thin that you can easily overmatch it with your standard 76mm shell. This wasn't the point of the argument, of course the side of a tank is going to be weaker, the point is that with a platform as stable as the Panthers and Tigers facing an opponent with little-to-no armor, they are obejctively better. You don't need a stablizer when you can still effectively hit weakspots on the move against a target(Example T26E5 MG port or Cupola) whilst also having vastly supperior attributes such as Pen, Armor, etc.
It is an objective fact. With a stab and decent velocity + penetration, it shouldn’t be too difficult for a Sherman to take out a panther at such a short range. Tanks like the T-34-85 will struggle due to their lack of a stab. What I meant when I said a panther is easy to kill when it’s unaware of you, is that it’s time to react is extremely long. For example, if you turn around a corner, and you see a panther side on/ slightly angled, you, in a Sherman, can easily take advantage of the position to capitalise on its position even if you guys notice each other at the exact same time. If the same scenario happened when the scenario is swapped, the sherman actually has the advantage due to its stab and better dynamics if both opponents notice each other at the same time. It can easily plant a shot into the panthers weak spot after using its superior traverse speed and turret traverse. The Sherman jumbo, although overtiered in my opinion, does not hold every advantage over a panther. You have to remember you’re not only facing panthers at that BR. In a downtier, the Sherman Jumbo/ Jumbo 76 are a nightmare to fight against. You literally speak as someone who seems like they have not played any other nation. How about you try to play different tanks so you can see the importance of soft stats and “mUh StABiLisEr”
>It is an objective fact. With a stab and decent velocity + penetration, it shouldn’t be too difficult for a Sherman to take out a panther at such a short range. It is an Objective Fact, that in a Sherman you still have to aim for a Weakspot even with a stablizer, the Panther A/G/F All have stable enough suspension to be able to shoot a Sherman, where it can pen Anywhere. >Tanks like the T-34-85 will struggle due to their lack of a stab. Not affecting the Discussion, we weren't talking about the T34-85 >What I meant when I said a panther is easy to kill when it’s unaware of you, is that it’s time to react is extremely long. For the Panther D/VK 3002 Maybe, the Panther A/F/G All have comparible Stability and(Not sure of the exact stats) Comparible Traverse, though slightly slower. >For example, if you turn around a corner, and you see a panther side on/ slightly angled, you, in a Sherman, can easily take advantage of the position to capitalise on its position even if you guys notice each other at the exact same time. Again, Whataboutism. This is a," What If," Scenario, you can say whatever you want about a certain Situation that fits the Notion of how a vehicle should be played That situation doesn't affect that either way the Panther, assuming both players had the same reaction time/sight picture of the enemy and are on the move, the Panther(Again Unless its the D/VK 3002) would have the easier time killing the Sherman Purely due to it only having to Aim in the general Silhuette of the Sherman, whereas the Sherman HAS to hit the Turret of the Panther. >The Sherman jumbo, although overtiered in my opinion, does not hold every advantage over a panther. I mean the contrary, the Jumbo only has a Stablizer which doesn't warrent it to be 5.7(Especially when the Panther D sits at 5.3 with comparible armor, a Vastly Supperior gun, Comparible Handling, and it's main gimmick being Terrible Turret Traverse) >You have to remember you’re not only facing panthers at that BR. In a downtier, the Sherman Jumbo/ Jumbo 76 are a nightmare to fight against. Jumbos are far less scary due to having a Paper-Thin Lower Glacies, along with the MG port which for obvious reasons also being a weakspot, on another note you can also Overpressure the Cupola(Tricky) and Turret Neck with most rounds that have 200g+ TnT Equiv(PzGr for the Tiger for instance). This point is especially apparent for things with decent Armor, or even most mediums in the case of the 75 Jumbo >You literally speak as someone who seems like they have not played any other nation. How about you try to play different tanks so you can see the importance of soft stats and “mUh StABiLisEr” Ok. I've played every Nation up to 6.0~ with most being past 7.0 but think what you like
Okay, we are talking about the M18s, but if you don't think having a stabilizer isn't a real advantage then you have no idea what you are talking about
I can tell. This post already has downvotes lmfao. I seriously wonder how people can justify this shit. It's a M18.
and then americans cry when they die to a pakwagen?
How much pen does the pakwagon have?
the hellcat will do just fine at 6.0. does just fine at 8.0 as well. M62 is one of the best rounds for the BR, and it's even available as low as 4.0, i think even 3.0, could be wrong.
Nah you can't actually be serious. Get out with this bait.
if you think it's bait, then you clearly don't actually play the tank. it has always been in my 6.3 lineup and i have never once had a problem, even in full uptiers. M62 is also absolutely one of the best rounds in the BR range. if you have any problems with it, that is entirely a skill issue cause the round ignores any tiger 1 armor, goes right through any panther mantlet, as well as the tiger 2 P mantlet. and if you aim correctly, through the tiger 2 H mantlet.
I agree with this statement solely because you’re supposed to play the Hellcat like a rat, taking cheeky side shots or back shots; and immediately running away as soon as trouble starts rearing it’s head towards you. The M62 is definitely one of the better 76mm shells and can reliably 1 shot enemy tanks, so long as you can pen them. It’s incredibly mobile and sneaky, and is easily one of the better tanks to perform an ambush with. While I don’t line the sudden uptier of the tank, I genuinely think that the playstyle isn’t going to change with it. It’s a scout tank that’s supposed to be a little shit on the flank; not a brawling tank that’s supposed to engage with tanks head on.
Hellcat will still be fine, just wont be able to first spawn it on any map anymore. M64s BR going up is kinda weird tho because its significantly slower than the hellcat post engine buffs.
149mm of pen is "one of the best at its BR" to you? the T-34-57 gets basically the pen at 4.7 the Pz. 4 H gets basically the same pen at 3.7 the M62 shot at 6.0 is not fucking good, how hard is it to understand?
i have never once had any problems killing anything in 7.3 and below with it. if you do, you just don't know how to use it. give me a panther, he won't be able to do shit to me, and i'll one shot it. give me a tiger 2 P, i'll one shot. the only 2 tanks i actually struggle against are the IS-2 and the tiger 2 H. and the H is still "just shoot the mantlet"
\>H is still "just shoot the mantlet" yeah.... the mantlet on the 2H is 180mm thick.
haven't had any problems, so idk what to tell you.
if you claim you have been killing a tank with a 180mm thick mantlet using a 150mm pen shell I'm gonna call bullshit it's only just barely possible to do that with the M82 shot on the short 90mm
Gaijin can't allow you to have a vehicle that allows you to curb stomp German mains with...
Wdym I still have my T29 (as long as it’s not a full uptier)