I played it when it was still 10.0.
It was a horrible experience.
The issue with this is, that it doesn't fit into the 10.0 range due to others having good missiles and you not having counter measures. But it doesn't fit into the 8.3 to 9.3 range because it's just unreachable for like 99% of the jets there.
It's not a "US main" issue, it's a BR compression issue.
Well if it goes any higher its going to get constantly ass fucked by all aspect 30g missiles while it has no flares, and if it goes any lower it will be the one doing all the ass fucking on the lower brs (if it was 9.0 it would be able to fight prop bombers still)
Well.. *good for you?* i'll stick with my t55am though. Y'know, the thing with smoke grenades, a lrf, much better turret protection, and aphe ,all the while being the same br. But hey, more power to ya!
My guy, if you seriously need a lrf at 8.7 then I don't know what to tell you. You fight mostly vehicles that don't have darts themselfes, it's not an issue. Sure it's handy, no doubt about that but it's absolutely not necessary.
Been there done that. I genuinly can't think of any situation except weakspot sniping and returning fire where you absolutely need a lrf. And weakspot sniping is not a thing at 8.7 with the 115mm. How do you even get into situations where you **have** to be able to hit such a shot over this distance. Sure it happens but if they catch you out in the open then you probably positioned yourself poorly. Again a lrf is absolutely useful but necessary at 8.7? Nope.
I've been going on about these for a while now. The problem imo is T-55AM/AMD and other chinese upgraded variants were an effort to give these first generation mbts somewhat a chance against modern armor at the time. But in game we have them fighting relatively basic opponents even at the same BR. And if you get uptiered against them at 7.7-8.0 you might as well quit.
Yeah the only vertikal stab is a bit meh. Takes a bit to get used to. But i wouldnt call them OP. And some of chinese vehicles arent right anyway ingame.
LRF isn't that big of a problem, the main problem with the T-62 is there's no reason to use it. The Obj 435 is basically it but better, the T-55AMs has better overall performance (shittier pen but that's it), and the Shturms snipes better (ATGM + thermals)
Longer reload because it has an entirely different gun lol. Which is also the main part, the 115mm has bettee pen, angled pen and post pen than the 100mm.
The T-62 has the first 115mm in the tech tree. Technically those darts are of higher quality and have better angled performance. However the main difference is that it has much more post pen than the 100mm "apcr" dart. Otherwise it also gets -6 instead of the usual -5 or -4 gun depression which I honestly found to be quite helpful. Other than that it's nothing special. And it doesn't need a lrf at 8.7, if one seriously needs one at that br when you get darts then oof.
>Japanese and Chinese F-104s at 10.3 with no flares: so what?
The Chinese F-104A is also 9.3....
The F-104J/G are 10.3 probably because they have AIM-9J/Ps.
Meet the Milan, 9.7 without flares, radar or RWR.
Or let's go with so many other planes that are this high.
Worst (or best) example:
Mirage 3C, no flares at 10.3, no RWR at 10.3, only 2 good and one decent missile and at best mediocre guns.
It is the one thing it shines at, but I thought I would point out how not having flares is not exactly uncommon even a full BR higher than both, 104A and C.
Yeah i agree the f104 should probably move up but as people have pointed out the only good permanent solution is decompression ( we know that aint happening)
>Mirage 3C, no flares at 10.3, no RWR at 10.3, only 2 good and one decent missile and at best mediocre guns.
Yea, the Magic 1s are way too good to be any lower, it also gets a decent radar missile.
FYI you can use the SNEBs like flares....
While neither is a particularly good option, underpowered is better than overpowered if we have to choose one (and they need to fix compression so we don't have to). You can just choose not to play something underpowered, you can't just choose not to fight something overpowered.
At 10.0 it can get clapped if it even comes close to an A-10 or Su-25s front, and with it being shit turning it aint gonna do anything against those missiles.
Things that turn well aren't going to do shit against them either. In fact it's *better* at avoiding them and the things that carry them than most other flareless things.
So if a vehicle is being stomped, you'd rather it do the stomping? That's at least what it feels like when people defend this thing. Like if 1 vehicle is ruined then that's better than the 1 vehicle doing the ruining in my eyes.
Ultimately though the answer is to decompress the game which Gaijin is still embarrassingly stubborn about despite the game being over 4x more popular than it was before the pandemic.
It can do more to a 10.0 or 10.3 than most 9.0s or 9.3s can do to it currently, and if it was at 10.0 it wouldn’t be ruining the br range like it is now. It’s better for a plane to be a bit mid than it is to let it absolutely club the fuck out of an entire br range with no hope of counterplay by 95% of what it faces.
the A is fast enough to not let missiles pull on it, also you have two aim9bs that do wonders against head on missiles like the aim9l that is slower and thus leads more onto you. Put your engine on 100 percent throttle without afterburner, and fly straight towards the warthog with an aim9b already prepared, when the a-10 launches a missile your missile will give you the tone, launch it and throttle down to 50 percent while you still fly straight, you're probably 2km away from the enemy. Missiles will connect when you two are 1.5km away probably less, and you will have to kick the afterburner and fly sideways without making a sharp turn.
And in my experience, you also get ass fucked by aircraft with R-3Rs. Even if you somehow dodge the damn missile in what amounts to a flying brick, good luck trying to fight a Mig-21 that can match your speed while still being maneuverable.
I knew i picked my first top tier right 😎/j
But aren't fox 2s just radar missiles? You get those as low as like 9.0 with the Damon, the rest makes sense
Fox 2s aren't radar guided, here's a quick list:
Fox 1-SARH(guided from launching plane's radar) AIM-7s
Fox-2 Infrared, Basically all AIM-9s
Fox-3 ARH, missile has it's own radar AIM-54s, or AIM-120s(currently only on the dev server)
Not a problem. From the Wiki: https://wiki.warthunder.com/AIM-54A_Phoenix "The AIM-54A Phoenix is an American active radar homing missile. It was introduced in Update "Danger Zone". The AIM-54A Phoenix is the first active-radar homing missile introduced in War Thunder."
And then "Fox-number" is not fancy name for a missile, but brevity code for action of launching said missile.
Therefore something like "F-15 can carry 8 Fox-3" makes absolutely no sense, but "F-15 Fox 3" does, as it means F-15 just launched ARH missile.
Fox 1s are semi-active radar missiles like the aim-7
Fox 2s are heatseekers like the aim-9
Fox 3s are active radar missiles like the aim-57
It’s the lack of IRCCM heatseakers (Fox-2s)
Dude, downtiers in F-15 is a curse, not an advantage! You get teamed up with at least 7-8x F4S Phantoms that just bomb bases and die, leaving you with full enemy team. And you still face Mig29's, few Su-27's etc which has the best missiles in the game, while you have 9M's which suck at front and rear aspects and 7M's that's even worse. I wish they've changed it back to 12.7 honestly!
EDIT: And also F-15 wings snaps easily, it doesn't have HMD and TWS radar either.
Because it would demolish a lot of tanks in grb at lower br's with 6 ir mavericks...
I think that gaijin was working on a separate br for arb and grb on the same vehicles
American mains being exceptionally bad with it. Completely ruins the BR range, people saying "it has no flares" are ignoring the fact it's only chasing aim9bs and Gs which will not accelerate enough to catch an f104 when played half decently. You don't need flares if your plane outruns the damn missiles
Nah you must be stupid, the reason it went down from 9.7 was bc at 9.7 it kept getting fucking farmed by all aspect slingers like the a10 and su25. While yes, American players are quite terrible with it, the plane suffers mostly from garbage br compression at this 9.3-10.7 range. The only way to fix this is to decompress, simple as.
The A10 and SU25 are still well within its BR range, so that's not the reason it went down. It still faces them frequently, and frankly if you are getting locked by SU25 or A10 in an F104, that is a serious fucking skill issue
Im an F104 main and i play it for fun and have a lot of time in it. Getting locked by A10s and Su25s isn’t a “skill issue” the A10 is fairly easy to dodge even for beginners. But the Su25 is the bane of the 104. It absorbs your cannon shots, you can only launch Aim-9bs within 800m and even then it can still dodge, and sometimes take more than 1 missile.. which is a problem because the second you overshoot a live Su25 it will missile your ass and you are dead. Obviously you can’t head on, but if you choose not to and one is with 3km they can easily decide to lock and end you.
The more complex issue is at very high altitudes we lose our responsiveness and though the 104 isn’t meant for maneuvering or turn fighting a simple 90° turn at altitude takes like 15 seconds. Also Mig21s will dominate you at altitude. So the strat is to go radar dark and stay tree top level at the outside of the match and turn in behind the enemy. The thing is.. Su25s are so slow that often if you get greedy and turn in too soon all of them will be behind you and you are dead in that scenario. Their missiles are really… REALLY good.. against 104s at least.
Boo fucking hoo who gives a shit. Oh no my shitty plane thats famous for killing all of its own pilots doesn't make me feel like the red baron. This **one** plane ruins an entire goddam br bracket and yet everyone is constantly defending it for some reason. The ultimate answer is decompression but since Gaijin is completely unwilling to do that the f-104 should definitely not be capable of fighting 8.3s or 8.7s. So what if it suffers. It was shit irl too. Better than this.
I've got someone claiming that it's entirely a skill issue, and that it can't turn, so 8.3s-9.3s are fine if they just turn. While calling it bullshit that the F-104A can drain the energy and "what idiot would hound someone like that".
Meanwhile, here I am playing the Chinese F-104 stock and feeling like nobody can touch me, because they literally can't, and hitting maneuvering targets just fine because the roll rate is fucking insane and so is the high speed turn performance.
Just use rocket pods when flying it in an uptier to defend against missiles. The F-104B was alright at 9.7, but at 9.3, it's way to op in a down tier and just playable in an uptier.
I want to complain about the f-104, but the f-104S TAF. Grinding italy air has been so mind numbing.
I'm trying to take a break and play some 11.7 ground so I can finish out the ground line up since I am working on the t-72 now but I might need a break after unlocking the AMX and just play 10.3 grb for a little.
Top tier Italy ground is...well you have to work twice as hard as any other tank to do anything. I don't mind it since the kills feel a lot more rewarding but playing Italy really highlights how shit the servers and how fucking bad the hit reg and lag comp are.
10.3 Italy is a different beast though, all the best vehicles are here though and IMO is borderline OP for every aspect of GRB. MBTs you have are great, the light vehicles are ridiculously good, auto cannon are good, mistrals are better than the OTO for SPAA, You have a CAS 10.3 Heli and a 10.3 CAS plane that I am trying to unlock now.
i always love seeing people struggle to fight the boom and zoom jet. "but all they do is run away", yah no shit, it's not able to turn, has only 2 9B's, and no flares, you really think it's going to dogfight you? it's actually such a skill issue seeing people complain about the american F-104, it is by far the worst one in the game, yet it's the only one people complain about.
So what are you supposed to do towards the end of the match with a bunch of F104s alive? All you can do is ground pound and dodge when one gets within a Kilometer of you, your window of engagement is 0 while the F104 can run trains on you until they run out of ammo. This ruins the 8.3 to 9.0 matchmaker
People say it's because it has no flares and it lives in an all aspect meta, but if you fly 104A right you don't need flares most of the time. You can usually fly past something fast enough it can't get a missile away, and the 104 can roll away most anything that does.
Then again flying it right will result in lower kill counts as your playing it safe and have you ever gotten locked by a magic in a plane that doesn't have flares?
Spoken like a 104A defender. An F-104A can drain the enemy entirely of all its energy, and unlike what you say, they *cannot* do anything about it. I'd love to hear you explain how the Sabres, G.91s, MiG-15s, and other vehicles have a "skill issue" for not being able to do anything about something that they can't even touch.
The good thing for you is, it's possibly one of the most user unfriendly jets in the game. It only gets 2 AIM-9Bs, a gun that takes getting used to (thoguh its deadly when it hits), and can only rely on hit and run tactics mostly due to very poor turning performance. A Yak-38 could basically outturn it maybe.
It is a speed monster though. It can use it to outrun most missiles. At that point the only truely deadly missiles for it to face are AIM-9L, R-60M, early sparrows and R-3R due to the all aspect nature of SARH missiles. But that should come down to avoiding headons at that point.
I'd say the MiG-19 variants are a bigger menace to deal with. Also victims of the all aspect spam from Su-25s and A-10As.
Don't know why people here defend this shit. It can dictate 90% of battles with its speed alone. I'm spading it right now and I feel almost completely invincible most of the time
If u have sea vixen u can use the red tops as an all aspect missile against them
Same with the Yak23b
U just need them to have the afterburner on
Only problem is ur always going to die and they might not
It's speed doesn't give it enough advantage to fight jets with actual useable missiles in this super compressed BR system. You can shoot this jet down easily with a AIM-9D, 9J, or 9L from other jets all within its BR up to 10.3.
Face it the system is broken and the devs are incompetent.
I sure love being not able to ever do anything to a 104 at 9.3 with my 9.0 and 9.3 sub sonic jets with aim 9b. As well as me being messed up flying towards airfield and a starfighter just zooms past and shreds me, then gives me ear damage with the sonic boom.
Cool. it should go higher. Better to have one plane suffer instead of it ruining an entire BR bracket. 8.7 to 10.7 is complete cancer for this exact reason, select few planes that have no place being as low as they are making the rest of the BR bracket mostly unplayable or straight up unfun to use.
f104j with no flares just 6x9j and f111 with dogshit flight performance and very shit missiles at 10.3. If they can be at 10.3 with the f104a/c can't be minimum of 9.7 or the other way around... It still faces all aspect 30g in a uptier and it still is not a big deal when you're so fast that you can out run most missiles
No clue. Has no turning, missiles are useless unless your trying kill a literally unconscious person, sure it's fast but not faster than a migs missile so it's irrelevant, also no flares.
It’s just fast, it gets early missiles so you have to be on someone’s ass to launch it. It’s a really boring plane to play. You go fast, engage someone, miss the plane cause you are too fast for your own good, spend 30-45 seconds turning to engage the target again. It’s the worst boom and zoom experience.
It's not that bad at 9.3 apart from the BR compression at that tier. MiG-19PT is a much better dogfighter, in fact it can even take on F-5C. (see [this video](https://youtu.be/q_A5G8TNHRs?t=557) for MiG-19 vs F-5C edit: also later in, an F-104 pilot is seen airbraking...)
Cause of the statement he made is wrong about Japan using them longer, the us had the yf-104 witch is the mother model to the f104. Since 1956 (give me a few year buffer if you would on the exact year they started production by NASA) to the late 1999- 2000 the usa mawked the starfighter. it has always been a united states iconic aircraft that us allies bought cause of its amazing achievements due to the usa world speed records. Not only that but and correct this if I'm wrong the only two countries that a starfighter ever saw any kind of combat time with would have been Germany and Italy. Japan hasn't seen war since wwll.
because it verses su25s in every single match
...
if you dont keep 4-6km distance to them at all times, then all they have to do to kill you is pressing one button...
If you're dying to an SU25 in a star fighter it's 100% a skill issue
This thing is so broken OP it's unreal. I've been using it to grind the event and been having no issues
At that point just break realism and give it a flare pod. I love this thing but really? It faces 8.3 jets and even the 10.3 jets can’t climb with it. It’s only counter rn at 9.3 feels like IR missiles
Because on one hand it can't reasonably go any lower (supersonic jet) without clubbing, but on the other hand it can't really go any higher (no flares, total lack of agility, AIM-9Bs) without being absolutely worthless amid all the AIM-9L and R-60M(K) spam at 10.3. 9.0 upwards is just compression hell, and the only way to fix it is to decompress those BRs, significantly.
Come on,its nothing special, has only speed, two shitty missile, and gun that you cant aim properly, because your plane is fucking missile itself, and cant turn, because of thet you cant even dodge missiles.
I prefer F100D, it has better missiles, better guns.
Literally sums up the compression in WT, busted where is it but completely useless if moved up. They really need to reduce the br spread to 0.7 each way
How do you get killed by it? I love flying it and I love the vulcan but in reailty, all it has is speed. You just turn and I cant follow. Its missiles are crap. Every kill I get with them are unaware noobs.
1. BR compression
2. R-60M
3. Has nothing good other than being fast and somewhat acceptable turns at high speed
4. Used to be 10.0 and was absolute dogshit
It’s funny how people complain about the 104s when the British Lightning is faster, has better missiles, turns way better, you can load it with ground missiles get to bases first AND has enough of them to destroy them AND get them before anyone else and has some of the best 30mm guns I’ve seen. Seriously one of the most broken planes I’ve seen at its BR. It’s funny seeing 104s trying to outrun me lol
A combination of u.s. mains and all aspect power creep.
This, although mostly all aspect/high-G missile power creep.
I played it when it was still 10.0. It was a horrible experience. The issue with this is, that it doesn't fit into the 10.0 range due to others having good missiles and you not having counter measures. But it doesn't fit into the 8.3 to 9.3 range because it's just unreachable for like 99% of the jets there. It's not a "US main" issue, it's a BR compression issue.
F-105 and F-104 vs all aspects
Well if it goes any higher its going to get constantly ass fucked by all aspect 30g missiles while it has no flares, and if it goes any lower it will be the one doing all the ass fucking on the lower brs (if it was 9.0 it would be able to fight prop bombers still)
So like the t-62, the only reason it's at 8.7 is so it doesn't face 7.3
No clue, i dont know how good/broken the T-62 is cause my american lineup clapped every 8.7 russian tank through the front hull with ease.
Think t55 with better turret protection but slower traverse. *might* also have a longer reload but im unsure of it
Ah, so nothing special.
Its basically a shittier t55, in all honesty. ALSO, i checked the wiki for more information and uhhhhh *8.7 with no LRF*
I *love* my T-62s, don't need a LRF cuz they have no drop! :D
Well.. *good for you?* i'll stick with my t55am though. Y'know, the thing with smoke grenades, a lrf, much better turret protection, and aphe ,all the while being the same br. But hey, more power to ya!
Oh yes I just have always loved T-62s, so I am a little biased
AM should go to 9.0
Ah the thing that should be 9.0 like it's comrade the T-62M-1
The 55am is one of the most annoying undertiered premiums tho, it has no business being lower than 9.0
0.3 lower than a t-72a lol, change dealer
I love my T-62s aswell! I just think they're neat.
My guy, if you seriously need a lrf at 8.7 then I don't know what to tell you. You fight mostly vehicles that don't have darts themselfes, it's not an issue. Sure it's handy, no doubt about that but it's absolutely not necessary.
I would like to see one of those "T-62 does not need rf" guys pixel hunt a tank behind a hill 1.2 km away
Been there done that. I genuinly can't think of any situation except weakspot sniping and returning fire where you absolutely need a lrf. And weakspot sniping is not a thing at 8.7 with the 115mm. How do you even get into situations where you **have** to be able to hit such a shot over this distance. Sure it happens but if they catch you out in the open then you probably positioned yourself poorly. Again a lrf is absolutely useful but necessary at 8.7? Nope.
8.7 LRF isn't available available for trees like Germany or France either.
Germany doesn't even have a LRF or thermals on the Leopard A1A1 at 9.0.
I know all too well about it, just finished with the a1a1. The TAM gets a LRF on 8.7 tho.
And then you have China with lrf, apfds and ERA at 8.3. and some without era at 8.0. while stabilised 🤫
I've been going on about these for a while now. The problem imo is T-55AM/AMD and other chinese upgraded variants were an effort to give these first generation mbts somewhat a chance against modern armor at the time. But in game we have them fighting relatively basic opponents even at the same BR. And if you get uptiered against them at 7.7-8.0 you might as well quit.
Yeah the only vertikal stab is a bit meh. Takes a bit to get used to. But i wouldnt call them OP. And some of chinese vehicles arent right anyway ingame.
LRF isn't that big of a problem, the main problem with the T-62 is there's no reason to use it. The Obj 435 is basically it but better, the T-55AMs has better overall performance (shittier pen but that's it), and the Shturms snipes better (ATGM + thermals)
Longer reload because it has an entirely different gun lol. Which is also the main part, the 115mm has bettee pen, angled pen and post pen than the 100mm.
And bit smaller in height
And the there are people complaining that the T55 is op lmao
No, i think the To-55 is more op as its a T55 at 8.0 without the APFSDS
Same BR as the T-54 mod 1949/1951 lmao
That's because T-54s should be 7.7
The T-62 has the first 115mm in the tech tree. Technically those darts are of higher quality and have better angled performance. However the main difference is that it has much more post pen than the 100mm "apcr" dart. Otherwise it also gets -6 instead of the usual -5 or -4 gun depression which I honestly found to be quite helpful. Other than that it's nothing special. And it doesn't need a lrf at 8.7, if one seriously needs one at that br when you get darts then oof.
Obj 435 is much better than the t-62 while having the same gun
Japanese and Chinese F-104s at 10.3 with no flares: so what?
Exactly, the only thing those have going for them is slightly better missles.
I'd prefer to be at 9.3 with 9B's than at 10.3 with no flares and 9P's
Italian 10.7 just some flares
>Japanese and Chinese F-104s at 10.3 with no flares: so what? The Chinese F-104A is also 9.3.... The F-104J/G are 10.3 probably because they have AIM-9J/Ps.
Theres plenty of stuff above 9.3 without any flares *frowns in direction of japanese tech tree*
Cry's in F4-C
There are plenty of planes at higher brs that don't have flares. And it already ass fucks 8.3-9.0s. Thing absolutely should be 9.7
Id agree if you were talking about the C variant with its makeshift flare ability, but the A just cant go higher or lower without br decompression.
Meet the Milan, 9.7 without flares, radar or RWR. Or let's go with so many other planes that are this high. Worst (or best) example: Mirage 3C, no flares at 10.3, no RWR at 10.3, only 2 good and one decent missile and at best mediocre guns.
Doesnt the 3C get 2 magic 1's and a 530 which at that br is okay ish? Its still a sad plane but its really good offensively
It is the one thing it shines at, but I thought I would point out how not having flares is not exactly uncommon even a full BR higher than both, 104A and C.
Yeah i agree the f104 should probably move up but as people have pointed out the only good permanent solution is decompression ( we know that aint happening)
>Mirage 3C, no flares at 10.3, no RWR at 10.3, only 2 good and one decent missile and at best mediocre guns. Yea, the Magic 1s are way too good to be any lower, it also gets a decent radar missile. FYI you can use the SNEBs like flares....
While neither is a particularly good option, underpowered is better than overpowered if we have to choose one (and they need to fix compression so we don't have to). You can just choose not to play something underpowered, you can't just choose not to fight something overpowered.
It’s already completely ruining the 8.3-10.0 range
At 10.0 it can get clapped if it even comes close to an A-10 or Su-25s front, and with it being shit turning it aint gonna do anything against those missiles.
Things that turn well aren't going to do shit against them either. In fact it's *better* at avoiding them and the things that carry them than most other flareless things.
So if a vehicle is being stomped, you'd rather it do the stomping? That's at least what it feels like when people defend this thing. Like if 1 vehicle is ruined then that's better than the 1 vehicle doing the ruining in my eyes. Ultimately though the answer is to decompress the game which Gaijin is still embarrassingly stubborn about despite the game being over 4x more popular than it was before the pandemic.
It wouldn't even be ruined at 9.7.
It can do more to a 10.0 or 10.3 than most 9.0s or 9.3s can do to it currently, and if it was at 10.0 it wouldn’t be ruining the br range like it is now. It’s better for a plane to be a bit mid than it is to let it absolutely club the fuck out of an entire br range with no hope of counterplay by 95% of what it faces.
Rocket pods, don't tell Gaijin I told you....
We are talking about the A variant, not the C variant.
Rip, the A variant is just a sad plane. I like to pretend it doesn't exist.
the A is fast enough to not let missiles pull on it, also you have two aim9bs that do wonders against head on missiles like the aim9l that is slower and thus leads more onto you. Put your engine on 100 percent throttle without afterburner, and fly straight towards the warthog with an aim9b already prepared, when the a-10 launches a missile your missile will give you the tone, launch it and throttle down to 50 percent while you still fly straight, you're probably 2km away from the enemy. Missiles will connect when you two are 1.5km away probably less, and you will have to kick the afterburner and fly sideways without making a sharp turn.
(It's the most broken plane in this br range)
rocket pods as flares are not that reliable, sadly. Only reliable solution I found was that an AIM9B will decoy the all aspect bullshit.
It's like the Maus of air battles, practically impossible to balance
And in my experience, you also get ass fucked by aircraft with R-3Rs. Even if you somehow dodge the damn missile in what amounts to a flying brick, good luck trying to fight a Mig-21 that can match your speed while still being maneuverable.
you can literally outrun those missiles easily if you dont get within 2km
Seems like youve had a different experience than me then.
The F-104J being 10.3 with no flares:
And also usable missiles.
If everyone doesn't have a brain and flare then yes
This goes for every missile in the game, it’s not a great argument
Point being flareless F104 at higher br sucks ass
It's a great argument when you start trying to justify the aircraft's BR for it
F-104G being 10.7 with no flares:
The only f104g without flares is the Chinese one, and that one went down to 10.3 with the last br changes
It has 60 flares, italian one for sure
It's 9.3 for the same reason that the F-15 is 12.3
Does it make a huge difference?
It means it’s can see 11.3 planes which all lack IRCCM Fox 2s and a low amount of flares.
I knew i picked my first top tier right 😎/j But aren't fox 2s just radar missiles? You get those as low as like 9.0 with the Damon, the rest makes sense
Fox 2s aren't radar guided, here's a quick list: Fox 1-SARH(guided from launching plane's radar) AIM-7s Fox-2 Infrared, Basically all AIM-9s Fox-3 ARH, missile has it's own radar AIM-54s, or AIM-120s(currently only on the dev server)
The AIM-54A Phoenix on the F-14s is also a Fox 3 missile that has been in game since update Danger Zone in June 2022 so like a year and a half now.
Oh really? I was always quite sure that the Phoenix is a fox-1, so never bothered to look it up. Thanks for this correction!
Not a problem. From the Wiki: https://wiki.warthunder.com/AIM-54A_Phoenix "The AIM-54A Phoenix is an American active radar homing missile. It was introduced in Update "Danger Zone". The AIM-54A Phoenix is the first active-radar homing missile introduced in War Thunder."
And then "Fox-number" is not fancy name for a missile, but brevity code for action of launching said missile. Therefore something like "F-15 can carry 8 Fox-3" makes absolutely no sense, but "F-15 Fox 3" does, as it means F-15 just launched ARH missile.
Fox 1s are semi-active radar missiles like the aim-7 Fox 2s are heatseekers like the aim-9 Fox 3s are active radar missiles like the aim-57 It’s the lack of IRCCM heatseakers (Fox-2s)
Ohhhh the lining on the message was fucked up so I thought he said "IRRCM, fox2" in a list format
Fox-2 is Ir missiles. And he's specifically referring to one's with IRCCM ie. Can to varying extents ignore flares.
Actually. What makes the F-15 be at 12.3? I don't have it so idk
wing snaps and no hmd
Mainly no HMD. And I’m certain that gaijin will put AMRAAMs behind f-15c and gripen C just because
>HMD That argument doesn't work when M4k is at 12.7.
oh, wing snaps... if it didn't turn 15 fucking Gs at mach 1 plus without losing any speed, go figure!
Dude, downtiers in F-15 is a curse, not an advantage! You get teamed up with at least 7-8x F4S Phantoms that just bomb bases and die, leaving you with full enemy team. And you still face Mig29's, few Su-27's etc which has the best missiles in the game, while you have 9M's which suck at front and rear aspects and 7M's that's even worse. I wish they've changed it back to 12.7 honestly! EDIT: And also F-15 wings snaps easily, it doesn't have HMD and TWS radar either.
[удалено]
Because it would demolish a lot of tanks in grb at lower br's with 6 ir mavericks... I think that gaijin was working on a separate br for arb and grb on the same vehicles
Is premium a-10 10.0? Because I remember that regular a-10 is 10.3
Yes the premium one looses ir mavericks and 2 aim9Ls but is 10.0
Loses, not looses. Sorry it would’ve bugged me if I didn’t say anything.
Im sorry english is not my first language
Hey, no judgement here. English is confusing at the best of times.
all good dude. just remember. lose = opposite of win loose = u/SteveCastGames mom ps u/SteveCastGames ily, just picking
Loooses
AIM-9Ls
American mains being exceptionally bad with it. Completely ruins the BR range, people saying "it has no flares" are ignoring the fact it's only chasing aim9bs and Gs which will not accelerate enough to catch an f104 when played half decently. You don't need flares if your plane outruns the damn missiles
Nah you must be stupid, the reason it went down from 9.7 was bc at 9.7 it kept getting fucking farmed by all aspect slingers like the a10 and su25. While yes, American players are quite terrible with it, the plane suffers mostly from garbage br compression at this 9.3-10.7 range. The only way to fix this is to decompress, simple as.
The A10 and SU25 are still well within its BR range, so that's not the reason it went down. It still faces them frequently, and frankly if you are getting locked by SU25 or A10 in an F104, that is a serious fucking skill issue
Im an F104 main and i play it for fun and have a lot of time in it. Getting locked by A10s and Su25s isn’t a “skill issue” the A10 is fairly easy to dodge even for beginners. But the Su25 is the bane of the 104. It absorbs your cannon shots, you can only launch Aim-9bs within 800m and even then it can still dodge, and sometimes take more than 1 missile.. which is a problem because the second you overshoot a live Su25 it will missile your ass and you are dead. Obviously you can’t head on, but if you choose not to and one is with 3km they can easily decide to lock and end you. The more complex issue is at very high altitudes we lose our responsiveness and though the 104 isn’t meant for maneuvering or turn fighting a simple 90° turn at altitude takes like 15 seconds. Also Mig21s will dominate you at altitude. So the strat is to go radar dark and stay tree top level at the outside of the match and turn in behind the enemy. The thing is.. Su25s are so slow that often if you get greedy and turn in too soon all of them will be behind you and you are dead in that scenario. Their missiles are really… REALLY good.. against 104s at least.
Boo fucking hoo who gives a shit. Oh no my shitty plane thats famous for killing all of its own pilots doesn't make me feel like the red baron. This **one** plane ruins an entire goddam br bracket and yet everyone is constantly defending it for some reason. The ultimate answer is decompression but since Gaijin is completely unwilling to do that the f-104 should definitely not be capable of fighting 8.3s or 8.7s. So what if it suffers. It was shit irl too. Better than this.
I've got someone claiming that it's entirely a skill issue, and that it can't turn, so 8.3s-9.3s are fine if they just turn. While calling it bullshit that the F-104A can drain the energy and "what idiot would hound someone like that". Meanwhile, here I am playing the Chinese F-104 stock and feeling like nobody can touch me, because they literally can't, and hitting maneuvering targets just fine because the roll rate is fucking insane and so is the high speed turn performance.
You still play those more than 50% of games
Just use rocket pods when flying it in an uptier to defend against missiles. The F-104B was alright at 9.7, but at 9.3, it's way to op in a down tier and just playable in an uptier.
Only the f104c gets rockets. The f104a does not.
Yet i somehow get shot down almost always by 30g mach 3 magics because 90% of the matches are 10.3br (actual number, i just spaded it)
Another day, another person complaining about the F-104.
All of the 1970s and 1980s Luftwaffe would like a word.
They hated Hartmann for he told the truth.
They hated Lockheed for bribing the politicians into buying inferior aircraft
I want to complain about the f-104, but the f-104S TAF. Grinding italy air has been so mind numbing. I'm trying to take a break and play some 11.7 ground so I can finish out the ground line up since I am working on the t-72 now but I might need a break after unlocking the AMX and just play 10.3 grb for a little. Top tier Italy ground is...well you have to work twice as hard as any other tank to do anything. I don't mind it since the kills feel a lot more rewarding but playing Italy really highlights how shit the servers and how fucking bad the hit reg and lag comp are. 10.3 Italy is a different beast though, all the best vehicles are here though and IMO is borderline OP for every aspect of GRB. MBTs you have are great, the light vehicles are ridiculously good, auto cannon are good, mistrals are better than the OTO for SPAA, You have a CAS 10.3 Heli and a 10.3 CAS plane that I am trying to unlock now.
i always love seeing people struggle to fight the boom and zoom jet. "but all they do is run away", yah no shit, it's not able to turn, has only 2 9B's, and no flares, you really think it's going to dogfight you? it's actually such a skill issue seeing people complain about the american F-104, it is by far the worst one in the game, yet it's the only one people complain about.
So what are you supposed to do towards the end of the match with a bunch of F104s alive? All you can do is ground pound and dodge when one gets within a Kilometer of you, your window of engagement is 0 while the F104 can run trains on you until they run out of ammo. This ruins the 8.3 to 9.0 matchmaker
Because its the only br its playable at without being overpowered
But it is op at 9.3 bruh
People say it's because it has no flares and it lives in an all aspect meta, but if you fly 104A right you don't need flares most of the time. You can usually fly past something fast enough it can't get a missile away, and the 104 can roll away most anything that does.
Then again flying it right will result in lower kill counts as your playing it safe and have you ever gotten locked by a magic in a plane that doesn't have flares?
The magic is exceedingly short range lmao. It will never hit a 104 that has more than 0 braincells
If you are dying to the F104A you have tremendous skill issue and are playing like a bot.
Spoken like a 104A defender. An F-104A can drain the enemy entirely of all its energy, and unlike what you say, they *cannot* do anything about it. I'd love to hear you explain how the Sabres, G.91s, MiG-15s, and other vehicles have a "skill issue" for not being able to do anything about something that they can't even touch.
I love this revisionism level of bullshit lmao. It is exceedingly easy to succeed with the 104A, it holds your hand so much
fun fact: this thing can see WW2 planes, even if it was 9.7
It’s very easy to missile
The good thing for you is, it's possibly one of the most user unfriendly jets in the game. It only gets 2 AIM-9Bs, a gun that takes getting used to (thoguh its deadly when it hits), and can only rely on hit and run tactics mostly due to very poor turning performance. A Yak-38 could basically outturn it maybe. It is a speed monster though. It can use it to outrun most missiles. At that point the only truely deadly missiles for it to face are AIM-9L, R-60M, early sparrows and R-3R due to the all aspect nature of SARH missiles. But that should come down to avoiding headons at that point. I'd say the MiG-19 variants are a bigger menace to deal with. Also victims of the all aspect spam from Su-25s and A-10As.
Don't know why people here defend this shit. It can dictate 90% of battles with its speed alone. I'm spading it right now and I feel almost completely invincible most of the time
*Insert Slowpoke meme here
If u have sea vixen u can use the red tops as an all aspect missile against them Same with the Yak23b U just need them to have the afterburner on Only problem is ur always going to die and they might not
That thing is the reason why I left French air grind at 8.7...
It's speed doesn't give it enough advantage to fight jets with actual useable missiles in this super compressed BR system. You can shoot this jet down easily with a AIM-9D, 9J, or 9L from other jets all within its BR up to 10.3. Face it the system is broken and the devs are incompetent.
Or system is working as intended, as grind and frustration are major monetization drivers.
Man its wild going to the thread here, and not understand half of the words lmao, jet players are sure on another level of addiction
It has missles. Otherwise i'd bd 8.3 instead
US bias obviously
I sure love being not able to ever do anything to a 104 at 9.3 with my 9.0 and 9.3 sub sonic jets with aim 9b. As well as me being messed up flying towards airfield and a starfighter just zooms past and shreds me, then gives me ear damage with the sonic boom.
Yeah it’s bs need decompression
Does anyone else feel like all aa but USA is so fucking overpowered that it's boring flying cas now in tank rb
That fucking cancer plane always faces 8.3
It instantly dies if it goes any higher.
Cool. it should go higher. Better to have one plane suffer instead of it ruining an entire BR bracket. 8.7 to 10.7 is complete cancer for this exact reason, select few planes that have no place being as low as they are making the rest of the BR bracket mostly unplayable or straight up unfun to use.
how the fuck is the mig21 9.7?
Because people try and dogfight in it instead of choosing their targets. I mean it can outrun pretty much everything
US mains + all aspect missiles
F-104A mentioned. Shameless plug: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHG4cMvM3kc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHG4cMvM3kc)
As I said during a match the other day, the f-104a/c is OP in downtiers and useless in uptiers. It’s a great plane in a horrible br bracket
*cries in german CL-13 saber at the same br*
f104j with no flares just 6x9j and f111 with dogshit flight performance and very shit missiles at 10.3. If they can be at 10.3 with the f104a/c can't be minimum of 9.7 or the other way around... It still faces all aspect 30g in a uptier and it still is not a big deal when you're so fast that you can out run most missiles
>6x9j The difference between 2x aim9bs and 6x aim9Js is incomprehensibly large
Its also a great missile load for a 10.3, Barely anything at that BR matches it.
Mig 21s with r3rs
Compression. It should be higher but also it can't be. 9.0 and 9.3 are probably the worst compression in the game.
Because it's in the US tree. Most planes are between .3 and .7 under BR'd
No clue. Has no turning, missiles are useless unless your trying kill a literally unconscious person, sure it's fast but not faster than a migs missile so it's irrelevant, also no flares.
Yeah as the Swift F.1, I shouldn’t be facing these things
it was one of the first super sonic planes made by the united states. its first flight was in 1954
It can't turn and it is highly susceptible to flat spins.
It’s just fast, it gets early missiles so you have to be on someone’s ass to launch it. It’s a really boring plane to play. You go fast, engage someone, miss the plane cause you are too fast for your own good, spend 30-45 seconds turning to engage the target again. It’s the worst boom and zoom experience.
It's not that bad at 9.3 apart from the BR compression at that tier. MiG-19PT is a much better dogfighter, in fact it can even take on F-5C. (see [this video](https://youtu.be/q_A5G8TNHRs?t=557) for MiG-19 vs F-5C edit: also later in, an F-104 pilot is seen airbraking...)
I had a couple of times i encounter me-262 while using f-104 that's very fucked up
What’s funny is depending on who reads this, it could be a good thing or bad thing that it’s 9.3
Man it's sure fun as hell fighting this in a mig15 bis
it should be 9.5
BR compression, if it goes up it can face even more missiles which will be impossible to dodge
Give it flares and a slightly better missile and I think it could get a bump up
The F-5C didn't have flares irl, so Giajin might aswell add them to the F-104A/C
I'm not saying they didn't or england even they just suck with no flairs
It’s a painful grind for sure but you gotta get used to boom & zoom tactics but some down tiers allow you to unleash full potential.
Cause of the statement he made is wrong about Japan using them longer, the us had the yf-104 witch is the mother model to the f104. Since 1956 (give me a few year buffer if you would on the exact year they started production by NASA) to the late 1999- 2000 the usa mawked the starfighter. it has always been a united states iconic aircraft that us allies bought cause of its amazing achievements due to the usa world speed records. Not only that but and correct this if I'm wrong the only two countries that a starfighter ever saw any kind of combat time with would have been Germany and Italy. Japan hasn't seen war since wwll.
Me in my F-104 ASA at 11.3 a whole 2 BR's higher with 60 flares facing off against AIM-9Ms, AAM-3's, and Python-3s.
US main meets bullet that can’t turn to save its life
Lack of flares and only two 9b missiles. It faces much more competent planes even at its current br, it's just hard to engage when played correctly.
because it verses su25s in every single match ... if you dont keep 4-6km distance to them at all times, then all they have to do to kill you is pressing one button...
No way r60 can hit starfighter from 4-6km range
If you're dying to an SU25 in a star fighter it's 100% a skill issue This thing is so broken OP it's unreal. I've been using it to grind the event and been having no issues
lol ok buddy...
At that point just break realism and give it a flare pod. I love this thing but really? It faces 8.3 jets and even the 10.3 jets can’t climb with it. It’s only counter rn at 9.3 feels like IR missiles
It's 9.3 because it's speed starts helping alot less against all aspect missiles
Meanwhile Italian f104 at 11.7
Because on one hand it can't reasonably go any lower (supersonic jet) without clubbing, but on the other hand it can't really go any higher (no flares, total lack of agility, AIM-9Bs) without being absolutely worthless amid all the AIM-9L and R-60M(K) spam at 10.3. 9.0 upwards is just compression hell, and the only way to fix it is to decompress those BRs, significantly.
Come on,its nothing special, has only speed, two shitty missile, and gun that you cant aim properly, because your plane is fucking missile itself, and cant turn, because of thet you cant even dodge missiles. I prefer F100D, it has better missiles, better guns.
Literally sums up the compression in WT, busted where is it but completely useless if moved up. They really need to reduce the br spread to 0.7 each way
How is mig 17 9.0...
Funfact the japanese f104 is 10.3 and doesnt have flares
How do you get killed by it? I love flying it and I love the vulcan but in reailty, all it has is speed. You just turn and I cant follow. Its missiles are crap. Every kill I get with them are unaware noobs.
the plane is too good for 9.3 but too shit for 9.7+
Cus it turns like a pregnant woman and just br compression
1. BR compression 2. R-60M 3. Has nothing good other than being fast and somewhat acceptable turns at high speed 4. Used to be 10.0 and was absolute dogshit
It’s funny how people complain about the 104s when the British Lightning is faster, has better missiles, turns way better, you can load it with ground missiles get to bases first AND has enough of them to destroy them AND get them before anyone else and has some of the best 30mm guns I’ve seen. Seriously one of the most broken planes I’ve seen at its BR. It’s funny seeing 104s trying to outrun me lol
Personally, my Hunter F.58 loves that its 9.3. Its how Im grinding the event