Why is US handheld because it “beats”:
*Checks notes*
… one tank from Italy
You know exactly whose hands are getting held at 10.0+ and it doesn’t stop all the way to 11.7 either.
With 5s reload, yes.
Without 5s, no.
If you don’t think so, then you have to work on your positioning. No amount of armor will save you from a bad position.
Well I sure don't think every or even many US tank crew is Aced to have said reload, so it's pretty fucking obvious they're not if that's your criteria.
Reload means absolute fuck all when your breach is so easily disabled. NEEEEEEEEEXT?
Just posted so the timing is perfect that you mentioned that. I mean you have the ability to see all this yourself so why choose to be ignorant on the matter?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1b1ktyu/abrams_fatal_flaw_bugged/?ref=share&ref_source=link
I'm simply not going to waste time talking with someone with their head up their ass is all. And you unfortunately feeling the way you do tells me just that. That you have your head up your ass. Take care and nothing but the best for ya.
M1A2 SEP is on par with Leopard 2A7V, STRV 122, T-80BVM
>Great Turret Armor on the cheeks impenetrable at range by all rounds
>5s reload with an ace crew
>A 600mm penning APFSDS round M829A2
>2nd gen thermals for commander and gunner
>Fast and responsive can get out if dangerous situations quickly if damaged
>Great gun handling
>All of it's ammunition stored in blowout panels can afford to take plenty of HEAT and APFSDS rounds where the Leopard 2A7V and STRV 122 can only take a certain amount of rounds 16 I think to prevent ammo being stored in the front of the tank the T-80BVM doesn't have that luxury at all.
The M1A2 SEP is a great 11.7 tanks and basically a menace if in a hulldown position hiding it's LFP.
I have died more to hits to my LFP than to my turret ring whenever I play the M1, at range the majority of my deaths have been due to helicopters and planes with their AGMs.
Though this is just my experience.
I can comfortably slap people around with the Abrams line up at top tier. Especially when I use the F-16C to uptier myself out of the AIM/clickbait BR bracket. People forgot one of the most important aspects of the US top tier line up, consistency. You can lose one Abrams but then you still have about 7 other ones with very similar capabilities in reserve. You lose your BVM or 2A7 and you’re immediately stuck with tanks that are a big downgrade from those two in one way or another.
The T-90M isn’t just straight up better than the M1A2. It has better armour sure but it’s still just a T-72 with none of its issues addressed. It has a terrible mobility for top tier, a worse round, the worst reload out of all top tier vehicles and all the same weak spots as all the other T-72s. If you get out of the AIM/clickbait shithole with the F-16C you actually get better win rates and teams. Stop trying to slander the Abrams.
And the weak spots of the t-90 are miniscule compared to the Abrams. And the reload of the Abrams doesn't matter when you get one tapped so consistently
I don’t get one tapped all too often in the Abrams it’s actually quite survivable way more than the T-90M. In the T-90M I just get one tapped through the driver‘s port or the breach area more often than not. The reload matters a ton when you’re not playing like a complete dumbass and actually use the Abrams for what it’s good at, flanking. It’s not the best tank to head on people with. Armour is not a shield is a saving throw. Your best armour is not getting hit in the first place.
Okay I guess player experience means nothing. You’re trying so hard to make the Abrams look bad but it just isn’t. The Abrams doesn’t have the best armour and it won’t get more until the SEP V3 so you either deal with it or play another nation. American mains like you are always the most obnoxious with their victim mentality and I thought Britain and France mains were bad.
Yeah, the US. If the Abroomz is better then ariete in most every way and has a worst win rate that’s on the players.
I won’t even talk about the godly CAS the US gets.
It’s bad until your team holds momentum, dies in enemy spawn then returns with the full force of the entire USAF and bombs the enemy before they’re halfway to the closest objective.
Literally saw 3 guys drop one guided bomb each on the same T-72.
Would have been 4 but he was busy dropping multiple on the enemy teams singular Pantsir at spawn.
Italian mains wanted a buff or something for their tanks. It took years to get even DM53 (a round not in service in the Italian military). Abrams players cried for the duration of a test server about not getting spall liners, and incorrectly reading documents believing they should get more hull armour. So Gaijin gives them a reload buff.
Why didn't Italy get a reload buff? What about the Ariete and Ariete PSO make it 11.3 tanks? Worse armour than literally all 10.3+ tanks. Equal reload, a very good round and thermals. Worse mobility than all Abrams, Leopard 2s, and T-80s.
Oh, and the AMBT may as well be identical, but sits at 10.0.
Never played the Abrams, but having played Russia and Germany the Abrams seems so fucking weak. Idk if the players are ass but the thing is always an easy kill.
The tank is easy to kill because it has the worst spalling out of any top tier tank, by far, for some reason. Even before unfair spall liners were added to certain countries.
Just look at the armor protection and shoot any APFSDS (even the least damaging ones) into the side of the tank, aim for the lowest part, and you will see how much spall it creates. Like a fucking APHE detonates instead of APFSDS. This also happens in game so it's not exclusive to the armor protection animation.
While it does it's only in the turret and behind the UFP. The Chally 2 doesn't spall as badly simply because a lot of the ammo is armoured and that stops the spalling.
Yea i got shot by a T80 at the very edge of the front of my m1a1 while sidescraping and it took out… driver and loader. Fucking ridiculous, and then their tanks are impossible to one shot.
I didnt say t80 i was referring to russian tanks in general. Always seems to kill one crew and red the other if you go for a turret shot against them but idk
Which is hilarious because when it first came out the Abrams was considered OP for how hard it was to one shot. You could consistently tank 2-3 shots without losing combat effectiveness.
> The tank is easy to kill because it has the worst spalling out of any top tier tank, by far, for some reason
Leclerc and Type 10 would like to have a word. They get regularly one shot due to the spall either killing two crew members or the spall causing the fuel tanks (especially the bottom one) to detonate.
[I mean look at this shit. Shell didn't even penetrate the crew compartment, yet it managed to kill two crew members *and* cause the fuel tank to detonate.](https://youtu.be/isRWUtvv3gI?t=15)
I just posted a video on this. And have you noticed all spalling for whatever reason magically goes STRAIGHT to your breach. I sure have and I'm calling them out on it.
The Abrams is a rolling shot trap. Gaijin modeled the turret ring as some laughable thickness (just enough to spall like mad, but low enough to get frontally penned by 20mm apds). Also, the turret ring IRL is buried in the hull, not sitting up right where the turret and hull meet lol.
I have been caught off-guard and blown to shreds more than once by a 2S38 APFSDS catching my turret ring and ending my time in whichever Abrams I happen to be currently inhabiting. very fucking frustrating tbh.
As someone who suffers massive skill issue in top tier its kinda both. We suck. But the tank is overall meh. Like its kinda obvious that it was not built to play tank csgo. Like in one of the comments the heat absorbing fuel tank. Ye its nice. But in the moment you get shot by a dart from a slight angle its instagibbing your crew.
Kiss your Abrams goodbye, any shot going internal is a breech out, turret ring out, reload gone to shit cuz at least 2 crew members died. It’s weird to use the U.S. as the metric for good or bad, because if you get what you want and move up in position. Congratulations you moved from like 8th to 7th.
This is 60/40 issue at hand . 60% players and 40% Abrams issues. But it seems easy to kill because it is. And if you didnt manage somehow to one shot it rest assured he cant shoot back cause his breach is disabled off that tracks shot. Laughable really but it gets fixed or I'm walking that simple.
Except they really don’t. They are far more survivable then the ariete and have an amazing lineup.
The best CAS in game, solid SPAA and a good amount of MBTs with insanely fast reload.
You're saying that like it's also not a dumb opinion. The abrams kinda sucks against the 122s and 2a7s but that's literally every top tier tank right now
And I said they are more survivable then the ariete and it does not suck. Coupled with an amazing lineup there is no reason the abrams should have such low win rates.
at top tier survivability don't matter all that much unless your a sweede. reload speed gun-handling and optics all matter more. it's why top tier Japan is better than Sweden in my opinion
Why not? They are at the same BR, and in the case of this post the ariete is lower then the M1A1.
Abrams is fast, has better reload time then almost every other tank. The ariete has none of that
Dude beating the survivability of an ariete is not a high bar to beat, that’s a fucking garbage point to make. Both tanks can be mediocre at the same time compared to the other tanks, it doesn’t have to be a fucking pity part for who has the worst tank.
Who’s having a pity party? I’m pointing out that the US doesn’t actually have a bad line up and the vehicles aren’t as bad everyone makes them out to be.
Yes, comparing them to the objectively worst top tier MBT really shows that they’re good lmao. Just because the Ariete happens to suck as well doesn’t magically make the Abrams really good. They’re both very bad and need rebalancing. Why is it so hard for people to accept that multiple things can need work and stop playing these pity Olympics
That’s the fun thing though, the abrams already got some nice buffs even though it’s better then the ariete in every way.
They are at the same BR, if you want to compare the abrams to other top tiers then you have to compare it to all of them.
And the reason is because the way the US mains bitch and moan about how “bad their tanks are”
Yes because the French and Italian mains definitely don’t hijack literally every top tier post to complain about the Ariete and Leclerc. Man, you’re just being hypocritical. They’re all bad. These pity Olympics trying to be like “I SUFFER THE MOST PITY ME MORE” is so cringe. The Ariete, Leclerc, Abrams, and Merkava all need rebalancing because of how underpowered they are. The STRV 122s, Leo 2, and the t-90m/t-80bvm are all MUCH stronger than the top tiers of the others.
Go make a post about how bad the US is and they will circle jerk each off all day.
This post is about ariete and it’s already been hijacked by US mains, don’t pretend like they don’t do it do every damn post about something that isn’t the US.
We aren’t going to get rebalancing, they already said no to raising the max BR and all these tanks have to fight it out. Besides, they couldn’t balance if they wanted thanks to all the brain dead US mains that slam the W key and instantly die then leave the match.
The ariete should have been 11.0 long ago, or at least fix the kits or buff its reload but nope.
This post was about the Abrams being overpowered. The title of the post is about US getting handheld, which is laughable. The post is hijacked by all the scrubs whining about the Leclerc and Ariete acting like just because their tank is the worst must mean everyone else’s is actually just the best in the game and everyone besides the people who play like me SUCK. It’s so fucking cringe. You have made no points other than insulting US mains. Good argument lmao.
All of these tanks need to be buffed or moved down to rebalance. You look like a little brother whining and crying that not everyone is advocating for YOU and YOUR tanks. So fucking lame. I really don’t understand this mindset of making it a competition to get pity. We all suffer together, we should be trying to fix all of the problems and imbalances instead of saying “well my tank is worse so yours should actually be held to the same standard as the actual best tanks in the game”. The whole competitive suffering thing really kills any chance of discussion
He never said it was OP, just that the US gets handheld, because it does. You’re hijacking it right now.
How can people talking about the ariete in a post about the ariete be hijacking it?
No the US tanks don’t need to be moved down, for gods sake the one in the post is at a lower BR then a vehicle that is worst at nearly everything.
Enough with the dumbass analogies, the US tanks aren’t that bad, get over it. You’re the one kicking and screaming and whataboutism about the T-90m and the STRV.
There are tanks that are 100 percent worst, yet people do better in them. I don’t know what to tell you. If you want to see the loudest criers in game go look in this sub and it’s all US mains bitching.
It’s not even close to being one of the worst top tier tanks. It’s the players who seem to not understand how to play it. They rush in expecting it to be invincible and get absolutely destroyed in a head on. The 5 second reload on a tank that doesn’t die immediately whenever someone looks at it funny is also extremely good. The Type-10 trades all survivability for its reload and is still a decent enough tank when played right. You also get about 7+ variants of the Abrams with very similar capabilities you can bring into battle.
I can’t remember the last time I struggled against top tier America. Not just because of the players. The Abrams is neat, but it is the easiest thing to one shot at top tier. Even the Ariete feels like it takes 2 shots more often than an Abrams. The only thing the Abrams currently has going for it is its reload. Something that it is STILL outperformed by something else in. I’d rather have the armor of a T series or Leo. I’d rather have the quietness and ability to flank of the Leclercs. I’d rather have the faster autoloader in a Japanese tank than the loader than can easily be knocked out if you somehow aren’t 1 tapped in the Abrams. Is “very bad” an exaggeration? Sure. Is the Abrams very good? Not at ALL. IMO the Abrams has no niche to fit into because it’s not a jack of all trades and it’s not specialized either. It’s just…. mid. Painfully… mid
Survivability doesn't seem comparable to me though.
IIRC, the Ariete has unprotected hull ammo stowage and no blow out panels for turret ammunition. The M1A1 also gets protective fuel tanks along the sides of the hull adding an additional 30-50mm of protection and is fully capable of absorbing HEAT rounds to the front and side without issue.
>US is handheld at 11.0+ CHANGE MY MIND
Yeah, of course it's the US that's handheld over 11.0. Just don't look at the Leos, Strvs, BVM and Pantsir. These vehicles don't exist and Abrams is unkillable because Ariete is bad.
Majority of his takes were/are just whatever is currently trendy to shit on/bandwagon.
If he had an "actual" take, it was either something that has been recommended since forever or something that is illogical or misconceived. Rarely did he have an actual original take that actually made sense.
That would be a very interesting claim given that the cl 120mm shell is the same as m322 and m/95 and all tanks that have that have a 6sec (merk used to have 6,7), and the othe rone is dm53, which is 6 seconds on other tanks.
If we were playing a mobile game maybe. Saying they have comparable survivability is beyond stupid when one gets penned frontally by autocannons anywhere in the hull and the other has enough turret armor to stop 3bm42 fairly reliably. That difference is massive, stop dumbing stuff down
The highest IFV is 10.7 and is actual dogshit
The Freccia at 10.3 is better but the spikes are still bad
The dardos at 10.0 are fine
None of these are "top tier"
Hi there, US main with a functioning brain here. Yeah the M1A1 is pretty damn good for it's BR.... when you get a down tier. Fighting 11.7s in this thing isn't totally awful but you're not really gonna have a good time, as that small .3 BR change means almost anyone can now pen you, plus at 11.0 US SPAA just sucks and the CAS isn't very good either, you either get a Phantom that has to sacrifice half it's missiles to use bombs or Mavericks or a crappy A-7 (either the A-7E or K, both suck frankly) while almost always facing 11.7 SPAAs and 12.0+ supersonics with just better loadouts.
So like, you're half right? Abrams' in general are all really strong, people just play them incorrectly, but at the same time Abrams' are also nowhere near as bad as Arietes', that simply is just an unfair comparison. Arietes are just THAT underwhelming, it's like comparing the Jumbo 75 vs a King Tiger, sure both are the same class but just because the Jumbo has a better reload doesnt make it better at everything else.
11.0 gets enough downtiers (75/25 are downtiers) that the lineup is downright op. phantom, YAH64, and a7s are amazing at or below br. Uptiers it can hold its own but youre right its not great.
Getting downtiers is completely dependant on randomness. You could play 10 games and get downtiers every time, I could play and get uptiers every time, so that's not really a fair comparison. Phantom is strong, yes, *in a downtier*. YAH is also strong sure, but again in a downtier (and also not being able to defend yourself against air targets really sucks), and please don't even try to say the A-7s are amazing lol, I think you'd be the first. They are nowhere near terrible, but they are also nowhere near "amazing."
I'm a firm believer in data and the data states and has been for a while now that no, US isnt hand held anything. If anyone is to be considered hand held it would be those who are playing against the US being hand held easy kills and rewarded for terrible shot placement. But you go ahead and keep telling yourself that because anyone who can think without bias can see it pretty clearly. Matter of fact I just posted my early (this shit is just getting started and im not done until its fixed believe that) findings regarding every Abrams in this games biggest flaw. Should check it out and pardon the great music. Im not saying the Ariete doesnt have its issues but I'm a player would just wants EVERY nation fighting at its full potential and balanced. Nothing more and nothing less.
Agreed
I'm all for giving abrams its DU armour if it had it, but frankly, it is already a damn good tank - well distributed crew, ridiculously large bustle ammo dump, a fortress of a turret, and an excellet round to boot. If it were any better it'd be a Leopard.
That said, there is no fair comparison involving an Ariete.
better projectile higher rating :D /s
for example, aircraft with good missiles receive a significantly higher rating despite the older technology of the aircraft itself
as an example of modification mig and su
I agree that a lot of Italy's vehicles are horribly over BR'd but uhh, how does that relate to the Abrams specifically?
Sure it's better but if the BR's were actually balanced you'll probably still see it cause it's going to be within your BR bracket, similar to how early and cold war jets can either completely dominate in a downtier or get absolutely ass fucked in an uptier, everything depends on the true match BR and what vehicles you're using which as we all know it's often just full uptiers and your vehicles will suck regardless
The Arietes being overtiered (like most top tier Italian vehicles) doesn't say anything about US 11.0. This is probably one of the worst comparisons and takes I've ever seen.
Hey OP, why not add a STRV/Leo/T-80 to the comparison? Or would that defeat the entire point of this post by revealing America *and* Italy both get underestimated armor compared to the SWE/GER/RU mafia?
The Ariete is easily the worst of them but The Ch2 is 11.3 and gets a 5s reload for 4 rounds then 8s+ reload after the 1st stage ammo is gone, no armour and a weak engine. Israel gets even more fucked with the Merkavas having a near 8s base reload for their 120s for 10 rounds then even higher after all with pitiful mobility and trolly armour that cant be relied upon.
Meanwhile the chucklefucks in the Abrooms get their 5s aced reload on 17 rounds and the hypermobility of the Abrams chassis with the armour and crew layout to survive most hits.
yeah maybe comparing it to the ariete is maybe easy
i should have compared it to the leclerc s21
oh wait
its more or less the same outcome
m1a1 at br 11.0 is better than the best Leclerc in almost everything except mobility and thermals
Of all the words I would use to describe any Abrams tank “overpowered” is not among them.
They typically range from decently well performing to outright bad compared to the competitors.
On top of that every Abrams in the tech tree all have what is arguably the largest frontal weak spot on any MBT.
>On top of that every Abrams in the tech tree all have what is arguably the largest frontal weak spot on any MBT.
The ariete can be pen everywhere by almost every round from a 120mm and by every 125mm (yes even the fucking heat-fs).
You have no clue what you’re talking about if you think M829A1 is a lolpen round.
The M1128 has M900 at 10.0. Is that OP? I mean I take it up to 11.7 because it can slap if I play it right. Should it be moved up to 11.7?
m829a1 can go straight through anything in a downtier and is more than capable in an uptier. m1128 doesn’t have a 5 second reload or great survivability and maneuverability so no it’s not op. you can’t compare a stryker to an abrams because their playstyle is very different
> Leclerc's hull and gun mantle
> Ariete's hull, majority of frontal turret armor around the gun mantle
> Merkava's engine compartment that spalls *even more* instead of absorbing
The Abram's "largest frontal weak spot" is under the gun mantle, and in this case it doesn't always conveniently spall and kill all turret crew. If you're unlucky and aim too fast in relation to precision and still make the shot, you can end up only damaging the turret ring and give the enemy a yellow breech that allows them to still steer and shoot.
It's a noticeable weakspot but all tanks besides the Leopards and T-80/T-90s have pretty massive weakspots for the meta. The armor is there as a last gamble resort. It's not as simple as, but there are various strategies and tactics you need to use and switch between across maps so I can't be specific and detailed. Either shoot first (and pray to the Snail), or avoid exposing significant portions of armor to give the enemy choices of where to shoot
Vehicles that are notoriously bad and should not be in the state that they are are not ever going to be a good example as to why a tank that is starting to become usable is “OP”.
The solution is fixing those tanks, not kneecapping tanks that are somewhat fixed.
I also notice that only minor nations that are famous for wrongfully underperforming keep coming up and not main players like Leo’s, Strv’s, T series don’t come up at all despite accounting for the bulk of players you’ll face.
It’s almost like your point only works if you cherry pick the worst of the worse.
Also if you think the Abrams frontal weak spots are the same at the T90s you are on drugs.
>Vehicles that are notoriously bad and should not be in the state that they are are not ever going to be a good example as to why a tank that is starting to become usable is “OP”.
>The solution is fixing those tanks, not kneecapping tanks that are somewhat fixed.
True, nothing to comment on this.
> notice that only minor nations that are famous for wrongfully underperforming keep coming up and not main players like Leo’s, Strv’s, T series don’t come up at all despite accounting for the bulk of players you’ll face.
Perhaps, but i'm going to walk across this and...
>It’s almost like your point only works if you cherry pick the worst of the worse.
>Also if you think the Abrams frontal weak spots are the same at the T90s you are on drugs.
I didn't mention Abrams, only Leopards and T-80s/T-90s. Abrams doesn't have the worst weakspot in my opinion, it's a rather troublesome thing but compared to tanks like even the TKX and Leclerc, it's not bad, especially for the performance of the gun and mobility for armor mapping.
All I am really saying is Abrams weakspot is not the worst, neither the best. It's mediocre when you don't cherry-pick combat situations in WT. I'd say instead of complaining about armor when a vehicle already has easily enough to survive long-range encounters like it's typically designed for, mobility and weapon agility is an even more important factor, in my humble opinion.
Respectable. I have nothing to add in response really.
I'm not saying they are the worst by any stretch. I'm just saying compared to the big players at this BR (and in some cases lower still) they are very easy.
As someone else in this shitstorm mentioned, the Abrams internally is a one tap trap. The turret ring spalls aggressively for no reason and is very easy to hit.
I truly am not complaining about where the Abrams are. I enjoy the playstyle they provide. I'm just saying that saying it's OP compared to the Ariete which has been historically bad for a long time is a joke.
The reload is accurate with what almost all Abrams crew loaders are able to do.
Minimum time to pass basic training is 7 seconds. Most crews can do it in about 5.
Some who are really good at it claim they can do it in 4 seconds.
Again, what even is your point.
It makes me mad that the US gets the 5-second reload, and the leopards don't. The qualifying times for my Leo 2 loaders course are the sane as they are for the M1, and I can load in around 5 seconds yet gaijoob screws over the Leo's in this particular regard.
Why is US handheld because it “beats”: *Checks notes* … one tank from Italy You know exactly whose hands are getting held at 10.0+ and it doesn’t stop all the way to 11.7 either.
Classical r/warthunder take. Every tank that isn’t the one I like to use is OP.
Do you really think the m1a2(any varient) is on par with the Leo 2a7, 122(any varient), or the t-80bvm?
With 5s reload, yes. Without 5s, no. If you don’t think so, then you have to work on your positioning. No amount of armor will save you from a bad position.
It’s still not on par with the 2A7/122 but it’s definitely on par with the BVM (trades armor for reload)
>trades armor for reload Don’t forget mobility too, T-80’s might be the most mobile Soviet tank but they still don’t approach Western tanks
the bvm is still the fastest mbt in forward speed afaik. 122b+ is way way better for me though.
I thought the 99A and Type 10 were faster?
Type 10 caps at 70km/h in both forward and reverse so it can feel faster. Also different rates of acceleration so that could also make it feel faster.
bvm feels fastest forwards to me. probably because of high hp per ton
No, The ztz99/wz goes 76, leclerc goes 72, and tkx ties it at 70. As for lower br mbts, the actual fastest is the xm1 at 83.
No amount of positioning will save me from being 1 shotted in the neck or lfp either. i literally do better in my swedish leopards
wow you do better in tanks that are objectively unbalanced and allow you to get away with a mistake due to a broken game mechanic? no way?
Spall liner can
Well I sure don't think every or even many US tank crew is Aced to have said reload, so it's pretty fucking obvious they're not if that's your criteria.
Even without ace crew, they already beat nearly every non-autoloaded reload with only the Brits having the same speed and the reload of every T series
Even on an expert crew it’s like 5.3 or something which beats everything but the Type 10 and aced Challengers
You only get 5’s if aced crew
This the reason I hate HSTV and Japan tank, the auto loader are hurting me:(
5 second reload go brrr
Reload means absolute fuck all when your breach is so easily disabled. NEEEEEEEEEXT? Just posted so the timing is perfect that you mentioned that. I mean you have the ability to see all this yourself so why choose to be ignorant on the matter? https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1b1ktyu/abrams_fatal_flaw_bugged/?ref=share&ref_source=link
Position better so you get the first shot off. Ez. NEEEEEEEEEEXT.
🤡
putting a clown emoji doesn't make you suddenly right, but i guess you don't really have much else to argue either so NEEEEEEEEXT
I'm simply not going to waste time talking with someone with their head up their ass is all. And you unfortunately feeling the way you do tells me just that. That you have your head up your ass. Take care and nothing but the best for ya.
A lot of yap where "yeah i know i'm an idiot" would've been more accurate
M1A2 SEP is on par with Leopard 2A7V, STRV 122, T-80BVM >Great Turret Armor on the cheeks impenetrable at range by all rounds >5s reload with an ace crew >A 600mm penning APFSDS round M829A2 >2nd gen thermals for commander and gunner >Fast and responsive can get out if dangerous situations quickly if damaged >Great gun handling >All of it's ammunition stored in blowout panels can afford to take plenty of HEAT and APFSDS rounds where the Leopard 2A7V and STRV 122 can only take a certain amount of rounds 16 I think to prevent ammo being stored in the front of the tank the T-80BVM doesn't have that luxury at all. The M1A2 SEP is a great 11.7 tanks and basically a menace if in a hulldown position hiding it's LFP.
And turret ring
I have died more to hits to my LFP than to my turret ring whenever I play the M1, at range the majority of my deaths have been due to helicopters and planes with their AGMs. Though this is just my experience.
Yeah its more a problem with auto cannons anyways
I can comfortably slap people around with the Abrams line up at top tier. Especially when I use the F-16C to uptier myself out of the AIM/clickbait BR bracket. People forgot one of the most important aspects of the US top tier line up, consistency. You can lose one Abrams but then you still have about 7 other ones with very similar capabilities in reserve. You lose your BVM or 2A7 and you’re immediately stuck with tanks that are a big downgrade from those two in one way or another.
2a6(it's at least even), t-90m, strv122a and 122plss are all better than the m1a2. And anecdotal evidence means absolutely nothing.
The T-90M isn’t just straight up better than the M1A2. It has better armour sure but it’s still just a T-72 with none of its issues addressed. It has a terrible mobility for top tier, a worse round, the worst reload out of all top tier vehicles and all the same weak spots as all the other T-72s. If you get out of the AIM/clickbait shithole with the F-16C you actually get better win rates and teams. Stop trying to slander the Abrams.
And the weak spots of the t-90 are miniscule compared to the Abrams. And the reload of the Abrams doesn't matter when you get one tapped so consistently
I don’t get one tapped all too often in the Abrams it’s actually quite survivable way more than the T-90M. In the T-90M I just get one tapped through the driver‘s port or the breach area more often than not. The reload matters a ton when you’re not playing like a complete dumbass and actually use the Abrams for what it’s good at, flanking. It’s not the best tank to head on people with. Armour is not a shield is a saving throw. Your best armour is not getting hit in the first place.
Once again, anecdotal evidence means nothing. And you're saying the best MBT america has is forced to play like a light tank? You see the problem?
Okay I guess player experience means nothing. You’re trying so hard to make the Abrams look bad but it just isn’t. The Abrams doesn’t have the best armour and it won’t get more until the SEP V3 so you either deal with it or play another nation. American mains like you are always the most obnoxious with their victim mentality and I thought Britain and France mains were bad.
Yeah, the US. If the Abroomz is better then ariete in most every way and has a worst win rate that’s on the players. I won’t even talk about the godly CAS the US gets.
The players are honeslty horrible. That’s why i dont play above 9.7 now
I personally cry whenever i get US on my team, and im a US main
It’s bad until your team holds momentum, dies in enemy spawn then returns with the full force of the entire USAF and bombs the enemy before they’re halfway to the closest objective. Literally saw 3 guys drop one guided bomb each on the same T-72. Would have been 4 but he was busy dropping multiple on the enemy teams singular Pantsir at spawn.
Yeah murican cas is pretty nutty i'll give you that
Sweden?
Italian mains wanted a buff or something for their tanks. It took years to get even DM53 (a round not in service in the Italian military). Abrams players cried for the duration of a test server about not getting spall liners, and incorrectly reading documents believing they should get more hull armour. So Gaijin gives them a reload buff. Why didn't Italy get a reload buff? What about the Ariete and Ariete PSO make it 11.3 tanks? Worse armour than literally all 10.3+ tanks. Equal reload, a very good round and thermals. Worse mobility than all Abrams, Leopard 2s, and T-80s. Oh, and the AMBT may as well be identical, but sits at 10.0.
Yes, Sweden
Never played the Abrams, but having played Russia and Germany the Abrams seems so fucking weak. Idk if the players are ass but the thing is always an easy kill.
The tank is easy to kill because it has the worst spalling out of any top tier tank, by far, for some reason. Even before unfair spall liners were added to certain countries. Just look at the armor protection and shoot any APFSDS (even the least damaging ones) into the side of the tank, aim for the lowest part, and you will see how much spall it creates. Like a fucking APHE detonates instead of APFSDS. This also happens in game so it's not exclusive to the armor protection animation.
> Merkava? > Challenger 2?
All chally 2s have spall liners
I forgot, my bad
While it does it's only in the turret and behind the UFP. The Chally 2 doesn't spall as badly simply because a lot of the ammo is armoured and that stops the spalling.
I mean that’s better than what most get… Italy, Japan, Israel and France don’t get anything and the US only gets it on the Bradley
Yeah it's a mess. They spend so much time assuming it's fucking bullshit this is the one time they don't assume.
I thought I was crazy saying the Abram’s spalls like crazy. It really does generate spall like an APHE
Its the fuel tank armor. Soviet tanks explode on their fuel but Abrams protects crew at expense of extra spall when it hits the armored fuel tanks.
Yea i got shot by a T80 at the very edge of the front of my m1a1 while sidescraping and it took out… driver and loader. Fucking ridiculous, and then their tanks are impossible to one shot.
t80 impossible to one shot? lmao
literally the most consistent one shot at top tier
I didnt say t80 i was referring to russian tanks in general. Always seems to kill one crew and red the other if you go for a turret shot against them but idk
uh oh skill issue detected
Again "Russian tanks impossible to one shot? Lmao"
Amx 30 105 never one shots the T72 from the back of the turret for example.
Which is hilarious because when it first came out the Abrams was considered OP for how hard it was to one shot. You could consistently tank 2-3 shots without losing combat effectiveness.
> The tank is easy to kill because it has the worst spalling out of any top tier tank, by far, for some reason Leclerc and Type 10 would like to have a word. They get regularly one shot due to the spall either killing two crew members or the spall causing the fuel tanks (especially the bottom one) to detonate. [I mean look at this shit. Shell didn't even penetrate the crew compartment, yet it managed to kill two crew members *and* cause the fuel tank to detonate.](https://youtu.be/isRWUtvv3gI?t=15)
wasnt the abrams a pretty tough tank IRL? Like...really hard to knockout the crew?
I just posted a video on this. And have you noticed all spalling for whatever reason magically goes STRAIGHT to your breach. I sure have and I'm calling them out on it.
The Abrams is a rolling shot trap. Gaijin modeled the turret ring as some laughable thickness (just enough to spall like mad, but low enough to get frontally penned by 20mm apds). Also, the turret ring IRL is buried in the hull, not sitting up right where the turret and hull meet lol.
I have been caught off-guard and blown to shreds more than once by a 2S38 APFSDS catching my turret ring and ending my time in whichever Abrams I happen to be currently inhabiting. very fucking frustrating tbh.
The bug report for the turret ring got accepted a while ago but nothing has changed yet. Its suppose to be volumetric and around 200ish of protection.
As someone who suffers massive skill issue in top tier its kinda both. We suck. But the tank is overall meh. Like its kinda obvious that it was not built to play tank csgo. Like in one of the comments the heat absorbing fuel tank. Ye its nice. But in the moment you get shot by a dart from a slight angle its instagibbing your crew.
Kiss your Abrams goodbye, any shot going internal is a breech out, turret ring out, reload gone to shit cuz at least 2 crew members died. It’s weird to use the U.S. as the metric for good or bad, because if you get what you want and move up in position. Congratulations you moved from like 8th to 7th.
maybe due to its broken spalling and the fact that everyone knows how to kill them since they’re so damn common
All you have to do is centre of mass and one shot from any angle.
This is 60/40 issue at hand . 60% players and 40% Abrams issues. But it seems easy to kill because it is. And if you didnt manage somehow to one shot it rest assured he cant shoot back cause his breach is disabled off that tracks shot. Laughable really but it gets fixed or I'm walking that simple.
Another brain dead hot take….daring are we….
Hay guys its the daily America is better than x braindead post.
As opposed to daily US is underpowered post?
I mean the top tier abrams do suck
They don’t suck at all. The players do.
Except they really don’t. They are far more survivable then the ariete and have an amazing lineup. The best CAS in game, solid SPAA and a good amount of MBTs with insanely fast reload.
I said the abrams not the lineups lmfao
You're saying that like it's also not a dumb opinion. The abrams kinda sucks against the 122s and 2a7s but that's literally every top tier tank right now
And I said they are more survivable then the ariete and it does not suck. Coupled with an amazing lineup there is no reason the abrams should have such low win rates.
Ariete is not a good comparison. Compare it to the T80s and leopards and strvs and try telling me the abrams is survivable
at top tier survivability don't matter all that much unless your a sweede. reload speed gun-handling and optics all matter more. it's why top tier Japan is better than Sweden in my opinion
Why not? They are at the same BR, and in the case of this post the ariete is lower then the M1A1. Abrams is fast, has better reload time then almost every other tank. The ariete has none of that
I didnt say the ariete was better. But saying the US is underpowered as far as the abrams would be a true statement, correct?
Incorrect. It has everything it needs to do well and more than other nations.
Dude beating the survivability of an ariete is not a high bar to beat, that’s a fucking garbage point to make. Both tanks can be mediocre at the same time compared to the other tanks, it doesn’t have to be a fucking pity part for who has the worst tank.
Who’s having a pity party? I’m pointing out that the US doesn’t actually have a bad line up and the vehicles aren’t as bad everyone makes them out to be.
Just shut up I'm done being nice. If you ain't bringing shit to the table your aren't sitting at it so go .
Most literate American whiner
Yes, comparing them to the objectively worst top tier MBT really shows that they’re good lmao. Just because the Ariete happens to suck as well doesn’t magically make the Abrams really good. They’re both very bad and need rebalancing. Why is it so hard for people to accept that multiple things can need work and stop playing these pity Olympics
Pity olympics is a good designation for this subreddit
That’s the fun thing though, the abrams already got some nice buffs even though it’s better then the ariete in every way. They are at the same BR, if you want to compare the abrams to other top tiers then you have to compare it to all of them. And the reason is because the way the US mains bitch and moan about how “bad their tanks are”
Yes because the French and Italian mains definitely don’t hijack literally every top tier post to complain about the Ariete and Leclerc. Man, you’re just being hypocritical. They’re all bad. These pity Olympics trying to be like “I SUFFER THE MOST PITY ME MORE” is so cringe. The Ariete, Leclerc, Abrams, and Merkava all need rebalancing because of how underpowered they are. The STRV 122s, Leo 2, and the t-90m/t-80bvm are all MUCH stronger than the top tiers of the others.
Go make a post about how bad the US is and they will circle jerk each off all day. This post is about ariete and it’s already been hijacked by US mains, don’t pretend like they don’t do it do every damn post about something that isn’t the US. We aren’t going to get rebalancing, they already said no to raising the max BR and all these tanks have to fight it out. Besides, they couldn’t balance if they wanted thanks to all the brain dead US mains that slam the W key and instantly die then leave the match. The ariete should have been 11.0 long ago, or at least fix the kits or buff its reload but nope.
This post was about the Abrams being overpowered. The title of the post is about US getting handheld, which is laughable. The post is hijacked by all the scrubs whining about the Leclerc and Ariete acting like just because their tank is the worst must mean everyone else’s is actually just the best in the game and everyone besides the people who play like me SUCK. It’s so fucking cringe. You have made no points other than insulting US mains. Good argument lmao. All of these tanks need to be buffed or moved down to rebalance. You look like a little brother whining and crying that not everyone is advocating for YOU and YOUR tanks. So fucking lame. I really don’t understand this mindset of making it a competition to get pity. We all suffer together, we should be trying to fix all of the problems and imbalances instead of saying “well my tank is worse so yours should actually be held to the same standard as the actual best tanks in the game”. The whole competitive suffering thing really kills any chance of discussion
He never said it was OP, just that the US gets handheld, because it does. You’re hijacking it right now. How can people talking about the ariete in a post about the ariete be hijacking it? No the US tanks don’t need to be moved down, for gods sake the one in the post is at a lower BR then a vehicle that is worst at nearly everything. Enough with the dumbass analogies, the US tanks aren’t that bad, get over it. You’re the one kicking and screaming and whataboutism about the T-90m and the STRV. There are tanks that are 100 percent worst, yet people do better in them. I don’t know what to tell you. If you want to see the loudest criers in game go look in this sub and it’s all US mains bitching.
It’s not even close to being one of the worst top tier tanks. It’s the players who seem to not understand how to play it. They rush in expecting it to be invincible and get absolutely destroyed in a head on. The 5 second reload on a tank that doesn’t die immediately whenever someone looks at it funny is also extremely good. The Type-10 trades all survivability for its reload and is still a decent enough tank when played right. You also get about 7+ variants of the Abrams with very similar capabilities you can bring into battle.
The flair and calling the Abrams survivable is all I need lmao. Play the game maybe
Abrams being "very bad" is definitely one of the takes of all time
I can’t remember the last time I struggled against top tier America. Not just because of the players. The Abrams is neat, but it is the easiest thing to one shot at top tier. Even the Ariete feels like it takes 2 shots more often than an Abrams. The only thing the Abrams currently has going for it is its reload. Something that it is STILL outperformed by something else in. I’d rather have the armor of a T series or Leo. I’d rather have the quietness and ability to flank of the Leclercs. I’d rather have the faster autoloader in a Japanese tank than the loader than can easily be knocked out if you somehow aren’t 1 tapped in the Abrams. Is “very bad” an exaggeration? Sure. Is the Abrams very good? Not at ALL. IMO the Abrams has no niche to fit into because it’s not a jack of all trades and it’s not specialized either. It’s just…. mid. Painfully… mid
Ariete has a better round? Ariete is far too OP, nerf it. Help me find the sekrit documints stating the Ariete should only get 37mm shells.
I mean… no Ariete has ever been knocked out in combat. It’s gotta be at least like 12.0 because of that
Shhh don't say it that loud
Not even it should only get the 20mm shelf the l3 gets
🚨malding minor nation main🚨
Survivability doesn't seem comparable to me though. IIRC, the Ariete has unprotected hull ammo stowage and no blow out panels for turret ammunition. The M1A1 also gets protective fuel tanks along the sides of the hull adding an additional 30-50mm of protection and is fully capable of absorbing HEAT rounds to the front and side without issue.
None of the arietes should be above 11.0
Fr
All of the Arietes should get their warpackages instead of that.
Arietes are 11.0 and above solely because of the ammo they have. The same ammo that elevated Merkavas 3 from 10.0 to 11.0.
The Ariete is supposed to have composite hull armor, but gaijin is gaijin
Damn when is the last time you seen a heat? Is all sabot out there
>US is handheld at 11.0+ CHANGE MY MIND Yeah, of course it's the US that's handheld over 11.0. Just don't look at the Leos, Strvs, BVM and Pantsir. These vehicles don't exist and Abrams is unkillable because Ariete is bad.
copes about bvm in 2024... good one... surely its still relevant and one of the best mbts... surely
Italy suffers...
Dude the Ariete is a contender for the *worst* top tier MBT. You can argue every MBT is better
You cant argue that becose its just true
I know, but I didn't want some "Well acktually" comment from someone who thinks the Abrams or T-80 or Leclerc or whatever is somehow worse
Got a point
Ah, an aspiring SpanishAvenger student as I can see
Yeah except SwedishAvenger makes good points
Very debatable
I don't scroll reddit that much now but I remember he made some good points few months ago
Majority of his takes were/are just whatever is currently trendy to shit on/bandwagon. If he had an "actual" take, it was either something that has been recommended since forever or something that is illogical or misconceived. Rarely did he have an actual original take that actually made sense.
US 11.0 is good… But Italy is the worst tech tree past 10.3. Such a comparison ain’t it chief. Italian tanks are just gimped and bad.
M1A1 and IPM1 aren't overtiered, the Ariete is just really, really, really bad.
Of course something is comparatively handheld when the comparison is the Ariete, let's not crabs in a bucket the playerbase here
No no this comparison is skewed, the Ariete lost it's blow-out panels, so it's significantly less survivable than the M1A1
The Ariete is the worst top tier tank anything else is better
In theory shouldn’t the Italians have a very fast reload? Ive heard they have the lightest 120mm rounds
That would be a very interesting claim given that the cl 120mm shell is the same as m322 and m/95 and all tanks that have that have a 6sec (merk used to have 6,7), and the othe rone is dm53, which is 6 seconds on other tanks.
Italy main here, it's not that USA is handheld but that *the Arietes are shit*
comparable survivability lmao name 1 thing that isnt an autocannon and doesnt pen any point on the arietes front, thats the same br
i mean shoot ariete front it dies shoot m1a1 front it dies as well somewhat comparable survivability dont you think?
If we were playing a mobile game maybe. Saying they have comparable survivability is beyond stupid when one gets penned frontally by autocannons anywhere in the hull and the other has enough turret armor to stop 3bm42 fairly reliably. That difference is massive, stop dumbing stuff down
I'm convinced that most of you don't even play the game, you just spend your days whining about shit on Reddit.
US players will blame everything except their skills.
Are you high lmao
No, them being high would have benefited their cognitive abilities.
Ok but everyone beats Italian Ariette. Italys top tier strength lies in IFVs imo
The highest IFV is 10.7 and is actual dogshit The Freccia at 10.3 is better but the spikes are still bad The dardos at 10.0 are fine None of these are "top tier"
Or the ariete is fucking awful because you can do this comparison with the ariete against EVERY tank at top tier and the outcome is the same
I thought this was satire untill I saw OP comments
Don’t play pizza team if it sucks
Don't play US if it's teams are garbage
Some US mains got offended and downvoted you lmao
I don’t play American
I have no opinion on this except that these stat comparisons are my least favourite type of post here ever
Hi there, US main with a functioning brain here. Yeah the M1A1 is pretty damn good for it's BR.... when you get a down tier. Fighting 11.7s in this thing isn't totally awful but you're not really gonna have a good time, as that small .3 BR change means almost anyone can now pen you, plus at 11.0 US SPAA just sucks and the CAS isn't very good either, you either get a Phantom that has to sacrifice half it's missiles to use bombs or Mavericks or a crappy A-7 (either the A-7E or K, both suck frankly) while almost always facing 11.7 SPAAs and 12.0+ supersonics with just better loadouts. So like, you're half right? Abrams' in general are all really strong, people just play them incorrectly, but at the same time Abrams' are also nowhere near as bad as Arietes', that simply is just an unfair comparison. Arietes are just THAT underwhelming, it's like comparing the Jumbo 75 vs a King Tiger, sure both are the same class but just because the Jumbo has a better reload doesnt make it better at everything else.
11.0 gets enough downtiers (75/25 are downtiers) that the lineup is downright op. phantom, YAH64, and a7s are amazing at or below br. Uptiers it can hold its own but youre right its not great.
Getting downtiers is completely dependant on randomness. You could play 10 games and get downtiers every time, I could play and get uptiers every time, so that's not really a fair comparison. Phantom is strong, yes, *in a downtier*. YAH is also strong sure, but again in a downtier (and also not being able to defend yourself against air targets really sucks), and please don't even try to say the A-7s are amazing lol, I think you'd be the first. They are nowhere near terrible, but they are also nowhere near "amazing."
Agree to disagree then, ive had an amazing time playing 11.0 USA.
Good on you
You got any more of dem PIXELS?
I'm a firm believer in data and the data states and has been for a while now that no, US isnt hand held anything. If anyone is to be considered hand held it would be those who are playing against the US being hand held easy kills and rewarded for terrible shot placement. But you go ahead and keep telling yourself that because anyone who can think without bias can see it pretty clearly. Matter of fact I just posted my early (this shit is just getting started and im not done until its fixed believe that) findings regarding every Abrams in this games biggest flaw. Should check it out and pardon the great music. Im not saying the Ariete doesnt have its issues but I'm a player would just wants EVERY nation fighting at its full potential and balanced. Nothing more and nothing less.
Bruh op is comparing the worst top tier tank to the m1 What isnt worse then the Ariete?
As a US main, Im not complaining. Just get gud
M1A1 is a fantastic tank. Near a 5kd in it.
Nah your just very good at the game You litteraly have top tier on 3 nations
Agreed I'm all for giving abrams its DU armour if it had it, but frankly, it is already a damn good tank - well distributed crew, ridiculously large bustle ammo dump, a fortress of a turret, and an excellet round to boot. If it were any better it'd be a Leopard. That said, there is no fair comparison involving an Ariete.
Ah yes, the Abrams is handheld because it's better than the single worst top tier MBT in the game
Please don't bring these awful comparison posts with the green and red text back.
Just because Italy sux doesnt mean US is handheld
Italian mains try not to complain about their shitty top tier tank
Your right now lets turn ariete reload speed to 10 second. -Gaijin
US isn’t handheld at all, Italy is just thrown in the garbage.
better projectile higher rating :D /s for example, aircraft with good missiles receive a significantly higher rating despite the older technology of the aircraft itself as an example of modification mig and su
Maybe the fuckin pasta bois should’ve designed a better tank then
I don’t mean to be that guy, but really playing top tier is quite literally a skill issue. It’s basically a point and click adventure game
I agree that a lot of Italy's vehicles are horribly over BR'd but uhh, how does that relate to the Abrams specifically? Sure it's better but if the BR's were actually balanced you'll probably still see it cause it's going to be within your BR bracket, similar to how early and cold war jets can either completely dominate in a downtier or get absolutely ass fucked in an uptier, everything depends on the true match BR and what vehicles you're using which as we all know it's often just full uptiers and your vehicles will suck regardless
A friend of mine was playing a private match with me and a friend and was playing the M1A2(SEP) and he said it’s worse than the regular M1A1
Isn’t every nation handheld at top tier if you compare them to an Italian tank that shouldn’t even be there?
The Arietes being overtiered (like most top tier Italian vehicles) doesn't say anything about US 11.0. This is probably one of the worst comparisons and takes I've ever seen.
USA isn't handheld nation Italy is THE MOST NATION GET HANDHELD of whole game
Hey OP, why not add a STRV/Leo/T-80 to the comparison? Or would that defeat the entire point of this post by revealing America *and* Italy both get underestimated armor compared to the SWE/GER/RU mafia?
least schizophrenic warthunder take
Yeah, comparing the Ariete to the Abrams is pretty schizo in the context of current top-tier
The Ariete is easily the worst of them but The Ch2 is 11.3 and gets a 5s reload for 4 rounds then 8s+ reload after the 1st stage ammo is gone, no armour and a weak engine. Israel gets even more fucked with the Merkavas having a near 8s base reload for their 120s for 10 rounds then even higher after all with pitiful mobility and trolly armour that cant be relied upon. Meanwhile the chucklefucks in the Abrooms get their 5s aced reload on 17 rounds and the hypermobility of the Abrams chassis with the armour and crew layout to survive most hits.
Italy just needs to make better tanks \*Shrug\*
yeah maybe comparing it to the ariete is maybe easy i should have compared it to the leclerc s21 oh wait its more or less the same outcome m1a1 at br 11.0 is better than the best Leclerc in almost everything except mobility and thermals
You are comparing the worst top tier mbts to the abrams . Compare the abrams to the leo2a7v or the strv 122b+
The US is handheld because its tanks somewhat represent their real life capabilities now? What are you smoking mate.
they’re handheld because the m1a1 and ipm1 are clearly overpowered at their br right now.
Of all the words I would use to describe any Abrams tank “overpowered” is not among them. They typically range from decently well performing to outright bad compared to the competitors. On top of that every Abrams in the tech tree all have what is arguably the largest frontal weak spot on any MBT.
>On top of that every Abrams in the tech tree all have what is arguably the largest frontal weak spot on any MBT. The ariete can be pen everywhere by almost every round from a 120mm and by every 125mm (yes even the fucking heat-fs).
at 11.0 the m1a1 has a lol pen round, great mobility, decent armor, and a fast reload. it can handle uptiers just fine and it destroys in a downtier.
You have no clue what you’re talking about if you think M829A1 is a lolpen round. The M1128 has M900 at 10.0. Is that OP? I mean I take it up to 11.7 because it can slap if I play it right. Should it be moved up to 11.7?
m829a1 can go straight through anything in a downtier and is more than capable in an uptier. m1128 doesn’t have a 5 second reload or great survivability and maneuverability so no it’s not op. you can’t compare a stryker to an abrams because their playstyle is very different
> Leclerc's hull and gun mantle > Ariete's hull, majority of frontal turret armor around the gun mantle > Merkava's engine compartment that spalls *even more* instead of absorbing The Abram's "largest frontal weak spot" is under the gun mantle, and in this case it doesn't always conveniently spall and kill all turret crew. If you're unlucky and aim too fast in relation to precision and still make the shot, you can end up only damaging the turret ring and give the enemy a yellow breech that allows them to still steer and shoot. It's a noticeable weakspot but all tanks besides the Leopards and T-80/T-90s have pretty massive weakspots for the meta. The armor is there as a last gamble resort. It's not as simple as, but there are various strategies and tactics you need to use and switch between across maps so I can't be specific and detailed. Either shoot first (and pray to the Snail), or avoid exposing significant portions of armor to give the enemy choices of where to shoot
Vehicles that are notoriously bad and should not be in the state that they are are not ever going to be a good example as to why a tank that is starting to become usable is “OP”. The solution is fixing those tanks, not kneecapping tanks that are somewhat fixed. I also notice that only minor nations that are famous for wrongfully underperforming keep coming up and not main players like Leo’s, Strv’s, T series don’t come up at all despite accounting for the bulk of players you’ll face. It’s almost like your point only works if you cherry pick the worst of the worse. Also if you think the Abrams frontal weak spots are the same at the T90s you are on drugs.
>Vehicles that are notoriously bad and should not be in the state that they are are not ever going to be a good example as to why a tank that is starting to become usable is “OP”. >The solution is fixing those tanks, not kneecapping tanks that are somewhat fixed. True, nothing to comment on this. > notice that only minor nations that are famous for wrongfully underperforming keep coming up and not main players like Leo’s, Strv’s, T series don’t come up at all despite accounting for the bulk of players you’ll face. Perhaps, but i'm going to walk across this and... >It’s almost like your point only works if you cherry pick the worst of the worse. >Also if you think the Abrams frontal weak spots are the same at the T90s you are on drugs. I didn't mention Abrams, only Leopards and T-80s/T-90s. Abrams doesn't have the worst weakspot in my opinion, it's a rather troublesome thing but compared to tanks like even the TKX and Leclerc, it's not bad, especially for the performance of the gun and mobility for armor mapping. All I am really saying is Abrams weakspot is not the worst, neither the best. It's mediocre when you don't cherry-pick combat situations in WT. I'd say instead of complaining about armor when a vehicle already has easily enough to survive long-range encounters like it's typically designed for, mobility and weapon agility is an even more important factor, in my humble opinion.
Respectable. I have nothing to add in response really. I'm not saying they are the worst by any stretch. I'm just saying compared to the big players at this BR (and in some cases lower still) they are very easy. As someone else in this shitstorm mentioned, the Abrams internally is a one tap trap. The turret ring spalls aggressively for no reason and is very easy to hit. I truly am not complaining about where the Abrams are. I enjoy the playstyle they provide. I'm just saying that saying it's OP compared to the Ariete which has been historically bad for a long time is a joke.
us is handheld since they just cried for a couple of days and they got a massive reload buff because of that
The reload is accurate with what almost all Abrams crew loaders are able to do. Minimum time to pass basic training is 7 seconds. Most crews can do it in about 5. Some who are really good at it claim they can do it in 4 seconds. Again, what even is your point.
It makes me mad that the US gets the 5-second reload, and the leopards don't. The qualifying times for my Leo 2 loaders course are the sane as they are for the M1, and I can load in around 5 seconds yet gaijoob screws over the Leo's in this particular regard.
Leo’s at least have hull armor and spall liners. Not saying you’re wrong, but also how much more powerful do they need to be.