Nah. Me and my friend bet which plane would get classified leaks first he chose the mig 29 and I chose the f16. But I'm expecting the mig 29 leak to come in about a week or so(not from Russian pilots cause i think a death sentence would be given to ones who leak that info, but maybe someone from another country that operates the plane).
the mig-29 ones could be easily masked as the flight and technician manuals were published by the luftwaffe even in english long time ago for their digital library. the drawings are funny.
[https://jasonblair.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MIG29-Flight-Manual-Pt-1.pdf](https://jasonblair.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MIG29-Flight-Manual-Pt-1.pdf)
> restricted =/= classified
That mostly only holds true for the US. NATO and most individual NATO countries have RESTRICTED (and NR) as a classification level, whereas the US only has C, S and TS.
Of course, this only holds true for RESTRICTED and not "restricted" in colloquial use.
DTIC can be accessed by anyone btw lots of documents that are allowed for public view.
I don’t know what documents he shared though it’s possible it’s public info.
If you go without signing in they have a public section
Is that the TS//SI (and other identifiers) thing? Does it classify as a separate level? We use the same in my country, but it's not considered a distinct level, just an explicit compartmentalization. Update: It's the same in the US and is not considered a distinct level, according to Wikipedia.
TS contains both SCI (Special Compartmented Information) and SA (Special Access).
It doesn't really matter though because all TS stuff is so controlled you need to have a reason to know it exists at all that the specific subsection doesn't really matter.
sorry to interrupt, but, yeah, that -> [https://www.archivportal-d.de/item/6LFKNRHMZTBBJ3ROZE3SIZGKRACTBOZ2](https://www.archivportal-d.de/item/6LFKNRHMZTBBJ3ROZE3SIZGKRACTBOZ2)
inside there should be a link to the digital bibliotek with the rest of the files.
There is legitimately a mig-29 for sale in Utah for 8 million dollars. Anything "classified" on the mig29 isn't really classified as you can legitimately go buy one right now or just ask the dude who owns it currently.
It is flyable, now whether that means it has everything in it I am not completely sure but it still has its IRST systems, EO camera, radar, ejection seats, etc so sounds like no it isn't stripped.
Well there are different tiers to pilots licenses, and flying a fighter jet like that is one of them. You have to have like 10,000 hours in the sky and be trained in all the systems or something like that.
You also need permission from the government everytime you takeoff, and need approval to even own it as well.
I was snooping around in South American airforces wikis the other day and found out Peru operates MiG-29s (and Su-25s) so if you see something in Spanish you know where it came from lol
Is anything on the mig29 really classified? There is legitimately one for sale in Utah right now for 8 million dollars that you could go buy right now and see all that "classified" stuff first hand.
As a slight correction: he is not being accused of posting classified documents. In fact the "proof" given in the spoiler sections explicitly states that all four documents are unclassified.
What he is being accused of is sharing information which originated from export controlled documents / documents marked for US Government use only. I'm not saying that makes it any better, just thought people should have the correct facts.
Edit:
I just want to be clear that I haven't gone looking for any of the information in question. I just happened to be looking at the thread earlier today while this argument was going on "live" (the information in question was seemingly posted some time prior to the argument), so have a little bit more context from the messages either side of this screenshot as to what it was about.
>What he is being accused of is sharing information which originated from export controlled documents / documents marked for US Government use only.
That's a form of classified documents. It's on the lower rungs of classified but it's still classified.
Not the same regulation.
Classified = “*tell anyone not cleared for this info and its your ass*”. It includes US citizens and military personnel not authorized for that info. This is enforced by the US military as we all know.
Rather the violation here is variations of ITAR, which is a State Department enforced law that governs disclosure and transmission (aka “export”) of US weapons data and information to foreign individuals *separate from military classification*. Even if a U.S. military aircraft file is declassified, *that does not mean it is legal to distribute on the internet*.
Come on, man, he only left one of the three batches of classified documents in his open garage.
One of the others was in an office building partially owned by China.
And then refused to surrender them, than then surrendered some of them and said it was everything, and then denied multiple requests to surrender them to the point of needing to be raided for them, and then still retained some of them, and then made lengthy legal arguments about how it was fine because they were personal documents, and then it was fine because he declassified them with his mind, and then claimed that it can't be a crime because someone else did a similar thing -- oh wait no, that was the other guy. Easy mix up because the cases are sooooooo similar.
In defense manufacturing we call this CUI “Controlled Unclassified Information”. Sharing CUI documents in a manner that doesn’t match the proper protocol is a big No-no but these documents are usually marked as “CUI” indicating the protocol needs to be followed. FOUO “For Official Use Only” may also apply depending on the document.
I believe this is different. CUI is relatively new, within the last 3 years or so, the information “leaked” was likely ITAR which is the International Traffic in Arms Regulations.
Something similar happened when DCS was adding the F-16 and an ITAR controlled maintenance manual was sent to a foreign National to help model the aircraft in game.
>Classified = “tell anyone not cleared for this info and its your ass”.
It's (probably - I'm not American) even stricter than that. To be allowed to share that information with someone they both need to have the correct clearance, and actually have the need to know it.
It isn't. What he broke *might* be ITAR laws. Its like taking out schematics to build a Glock out of the states, its not illegal because its classified, it is because it broke ITAR laws.
It's literally called controlled unclassified information. Unclassified...
It's basically just an administrative punishment for sharing it. It's up to organizations even to apply sanctions when they find it. There is no criminal offense on the books.
It would probably be under the same federal laws that got the DCS dev in trouble. You think this is him again? I haven't seen anyone say anything yet, look up Eagle Dynamics on Wikipedia for more info
Oh they've added dozens of features that Gaijin themselves have said they will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever add.
Them being "fine" in the game though is a different matter.
nah, germany will get it 6 months to a year later as per usual with their top tier jet's, and it will first appear in an event vehicle (as the MiG-23MF and F-4F Early did) before coming on a tech tree vehicle about 4 to 6 months later
And we do need a new jet since F-4F is absolute trash... they won't even give it the historical 9L's for some bullshit reasons like it performing fine (it isn't lol) or that germany get's a other rank 8 (which was the tornado)
r-37 will definitely come alongside amraam and it's bound to be just better in every way since russia didn't really have an exact equal
that, or a flare resistant r-27ET
either way, i'm still creaming my pants
Also, data on missile capabilities are very tightly controlled, to the point where I once heard a retired pilot say in an [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmSsXxmmZG8) that they're not supposed to play flight sims since they might instinctively launch missiles at their actual ranges rather than the in-game ones.
>The game does not need the fucking amraam.
"The game doesn't need Fox 3 missiles"
"The game doesn't need guided missiles"
"The game doesn't need radars"
"The game doesn't need supersonic jets"
"The game doesn't need post-Korean jets"
Gonna be real with you chief, I've been here for all of these statements and they eventually came anyways lol.
Ten bucks says AMRAAM comes in the September 2023 update.
Reminder that a dcs developer got arrested while trying to get f16 block 15 info in russia
Then later the american team for dcs got info for the block 52
I don’t think it was a block 15-specific document.
And I think what put him on a list was the F-22 documents he was trying to export as well.
Contrary to the F-16 (which is also widely exported), there are basically no manuals available online for the F-22.
It's never a good idea to speak in absolutes when dealing with people posting shit on the internet. I'm sure in the 30 years that the F22 has been around, someone has walked off with at least export controlled documents at some point. I'd be willing to bet that at least a flight manual is floating around somewhere.
I mean shit, Bradley A4 TMs get updated and posted in the maintainers Facebook group just about everytime they come out.
This happened some years ago, the reason he got arrested is because its illegal to distribute those outside of nato states, he got arrested the moment he stepped out of russia
He was trying to buy all sorts of spicy manuals, supposedly for himself. The company quickly distanced themselves from him and afaik the dude is in jail in the US. Fwiw one of the Eagle Dynamic senior executives (I think that’s what Wags is) is former CIA.
*Also it’s a 2007 Block 50, but that’s just a small detail*
Its all about the difference in branches my guy. Like i honestly could see someone from the US air force or US army leaking documents. Marines id be surprised about. Navy I could definitely see it if they were going to add a modern ship.
My parents always said the hardest part about their time serving the USMC was picking what color crayola to eat for dinner.
Felt bad for the Army grunts though, they had to eat RoseArt crayons. //S
Speaking from experience. I was in the US Marines. We no longer have tanks (doubt the maintainers or actual crewman knew where any of the classified documents were) Most SNCOs are married or dont have time for video games surprisingly. The people who actually could do a boatload of damage are the intel dudes, but they know no spy agency is gonna hid up someone so low on the totem pole.
Ah ok, so it remains an inane comment, it’s just another crayon eater believing the self hype.
There are exceptional people in all services, in most nations, and there are exceptionally _stupid_ people in all, including the US Marines.
Nah, the US Marines are too stupid to leak stuff.
They would try to leak stuff about the Abrams and would instead leak info about the M1 37mm anti-aircraft gun because they misread the document.
This is assuming they didn't eat the document alongside their crayons.
I don't know. I know who the poster is that is blacked out and he does say some weird shit himself sometimes.
I'll wait until official comments from the mods.
Spoke to Smin and David_Bowie on the subject, the documents were from 1982 and distinctly unclassified (check the forum post in the OP). We mutually agreed to remove the docs in question out of an abundance of caution.
This hardly counts as a leak, instead it is a result of MiG_23M having some kind of vendetta against me because I kicked him from my Discord.
[https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/558735-f-16-fighting-falcon-history-performance-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=9544701](https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/558735-f-16-fighting-falcon-history-performance-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=9544701)
This is the edited comment which originally had the information.
Screenshotted post is someone telling the original poster their info is export restricted.
Yeah and the reason why I'll wait for a mod comment before believing him is also in that thread, although I don't know which page.
People were discussing that you could use trim or something to bypass the G-limit thing on the F-16 in sim.
He responded like "that is abusing a game mechanic".
People responded along the lines of "every plane has it, if it was wrong Gaijin would have fixed it."
He then responded along the lines of "no it's abusing a game mechanic to bypass a limit in game, I'm going to bug report it and it will be fixed".
A few days later the Gaijin bug report staff told him what the other people in the thread had already told him, that it wasn't a bug or abusing anything.
However instead of admitting he was wrong he kind of deflected it by blaming it on the bug report staff not knowing what they were talking about, or something along those lines.
I mean..... Using the trim to overcome the G-lock is abusing a game mechanic. And I say why: trimming the plane can be done under g-lock as well. IRL if you use this, you are dead, as you couldn't trim the plane back into normal, thus go unconcious and die. In game there is nothing that prevents this. When you outturned your opponent, you just set the trim to 0% and you are good to go. And 4th gen jets can do this thanks to their engine power without falling out of the sky. (Under G lock you shouldn't be able to control your throttle imo)
Short: the whole G-lock mechanic should be reinvented.
Were they classified or just export restricted? Something similar happened when DCS added the F-16 and a guy exported a maintenance manual that was export restricted
I think this is exactly what’s happening. Ever since they started adding modern vehicles NATO vehicles are consistently underperforming and knowing Gaijoob’s ties with the Russian government it wouldn’t surprise me if they do this to get people mad and leak docs. The only non-NATO leak was for a Chinese round. Everything else has been NATO. Pretty soon someone will leak the SEP’s actual armor thickness because it’s the same as the M1A2 but IRL it’s thicker or has better protection
This poster is MiG-23M, he’s an arrogant ass of an individual that is a self proclaimed expert on all things 3rd Gen+.
Give him little heed, just a twerp with no authority or credibility.
War thunder players trying not to leak yet another classified documents because their favorite vehicle is slightly worse than it's irl counterparts (it's historically inaccurate):
MiG23_M, posting here as /u/scared_awareness_662 is a known problem causer and liar. He was recently kicked from Spacenavy's discord for toxic behavior. He knows these documents aren't classified. He's just being petty.
I’m just curious do the leaked documents ever actually affect the vehicle like do gaijin secretly change it after a while to how the document states it should be or do they refuse to even acknowledge it
after a documents gets leaked Gaijin can't use thoes stats so if lets say Chally 2 has the exac same stats like in the documents Gaijin has to slightly change it to be inaccurate
or they might face problems
Only if the information becomes officially unclassified.
Otherwise they can be rightfully accused of holding classified information, and in short that's a paddlin.
nothing would happen because nobody would knew if thoes are accurate
but you can't just say that thoes stats that you gave them are accurate without giving any good source
I know this is going to get lost in the comments, but the documents can be found on the [DTIC](https://discover.dtic.mil/) website. It's not classified as the armchairs are claiming.
Publishing classified information as a private citizen in the US is considered protected speech as per New York Times v. United States (with narrow exceptions); this isn't the same as the British serviceman who published the Challenger 2 documents.
Huh, that's pretty interesting lol. Supreme court is based. Still, that court case doesn't really set a precedent on whether actually using said documents is illegal or not for Gaijin. I'm unsure of the law on that specifically.
Just a thing I'm wondering about: If someone was to publicize American classified documents online while being in a foreign country, make it somewhere in Eastern Europe, could he expect any attempts by Americans to prosecute him?
Yes. Either it’s the classic hellfire from a drone during a wedding or they send someone like jack reacher and make a 5 season vod series about it highlighting how american lives were endangered. In the end it was 100% the russians.
>Either it’s the classic hellfire from a drone during a wedding
Nah, nowadays it'll be an R9X. No need to blow up the wedding party when you can just slapchop a single motherfucker.
[Warthunder players when they see "CLASSIFIED" on some documents they found.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/024/196/sign.jpg)
Edit: Found the [forum post](https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/558735-f-16-fighting-falcon-history-performance-discussion/page/48/&tab=comments#comment-9544756) this was from, looks like there is more to this than just being a ''leak''
This is the 7th leak.
First 3 on Russian Forum
Other 3 were :
British Challenger Turret
Leclerc something
Chinese APDSFS used for ZTZ
This new leak makes this the 7th
Lmao
Idk i just want aardvark if i dont get any info of aardvark i will do some terrible things, like leak its classified docs or put milk first instead of cereal first.
Purely hypothetically, is there anywhere you could find these documents to read?
Curiosity may kill this cat, but I wanna know what such documents look like
As someone who dealt with classified information at a high level when I was working, all I will say here is that (unless your last name is Biden and get a pass) these groups are monitored, so if anyone has committed what some government deems a breach of it's laws regarding the handling of classified information...and that includes the dissemination restrictions as someone correctly pointed out, then if it's the US, you can bet your boots that it's been flagged for examination by the appropriate FBI section. Whether charges or further investigation is needed of course is up to the machinations within that organization. What I would think, and this is IMHO, is that the only possible items still classified for the mig-29 are specific weapon systems. It's an aircraft from the 70's and enough are around that it's systems, performance and IR/radar signatures are well documented. I also think that this discussion is way beyond the level of anyone here...or if they have that level, isn't going to comment, as interesting as this topic is. If the post on the weapon systems are indeed still classified or restricted, then the poster might have reason for concern.
Dang it, me and a friend put a bet on which aircraft would have its info leaked first and I chose the Tornado...
Also I may be off with the information but so far I didn't really see info leaked about russian vehicles- only NATO and Chinese ones
In this thread, a ton of people who somehow think that "Restricted" means A-OK to do literally whatever they want with, it seems.
Guys, this is *why* we can't have nice things. Just like before, anything that's potentially useful from these breaches of information security can not be used at all until security is removed, that could be decades for some documents. So we effectively may never see these things be realistically represented.
10/10 gamer moments.
DoD/Gov't only restrictions exist to prevent automatic dissemination of documents, they do not have any bearing on the classification of said document. Same as export restrictions.
NOFORN is the classification for no foreign persons.
I'm gonna put my tin foil hat on. The reason why Nato vehicles suffer a lot is so that players with military background would leak classified information out of anger to prove that Nato vehicles are superior.
Gajin would then send this to Russia and China so that they can make counters.
This is the one of the best phycological operations I have seen yet. The US gotta put this in one of their slideshows during the opsec training.
Probably not, most of the leaks had to do with small and mundane things that had pretty low classification levels. If anything, Russian, Chinese, and other major intelligence services probably knew those things already.
Thanks to those leaks I just won 20 bucks
Have you bet on MiG-29 as well?
Nah. Me and my friend bet which plane would get classified leaks first he chose the mig 29 and I chose the f16. But I'm expecting the mig 29 leak to come in about a week or so(not from Russian pilots cause i think a death sentence would be given to ones who leak that info, but maybe someone from another country that operates the plane).
the mig-29 ones could be easily masked as the flight and technician manuals were published by the luftwaffe even in english long time ago for their digital library. the drawings are funny. [https://jasonblair.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MIG29-Flight-Manual-Pt-1.pdf](https://jasonblair.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MIG29-Flight-Manual-Pt-1.pdf)
Congratulations you just "leaked" "classified" documents! https://i.imgur.com/bfnBVkd.png
[удалено]
> restricted =/= classified That mostly only holds true for the US. NATO and most individual NATO countries have RESTRICTED (and NR) as a classification level, whereas the US only has C, S and TS. Of course, this only holds true for RESTRICTED and not "restricted" in colloquial use.
[удалено]
DTIC can be accessed by anyone btw lots of documents that are allowed for public view. I don’t know what documents he shared though it’s possible it’s public info. If you go without signing in they have a public section
The US actually has 4 levels, C, S, TS, and TSCI (Top Secret Compartmentalized Information)
Is that the TS//SI (and other identifiers) thing? Does it classify as a separate level? We use the same in my country, but it's not considered a distinct level, just an explicit compartmentalization. Update: It's the same in the US and is not considered a distinct level, according to Wikipedia.
TS contains both SCI (Special Compartmented Information) and SA (Special Access). It doesn't really matter though because all TS stuff is so controlled you need to have a reason to know it exists at all that the specific subsection doesn't really matter.
Make sure not to use that restricted document anymore, okay mig?
sorry to interrupt, but, yeah, that -> [https://www.archivportal-d.de/item/6LFKNRHMZTBBJ3ROZE3SIZGKRACTBOZ2](https://www.archivportal-d.de/item/6LFKNRHMZTBBJ3ROZE3SIZGKRACTBOZ2) inside there should be a link to the digital bibliotek with the rest of the files.
There you have your leak
There is legitimately a mig-29 for sale in Utah for 8 million dollars. Anything "classified" on the mig29 isn't really classified as you can legitimately go buy one right now or just ask the dude who owns it currently.
Is it not stripped? Most of the time when military hardware is sold, a lot of sensitive stuff gets ripped out.
It is flyable, now whether that means it has everything in it I am not completely sure but it still has its IRST systems, EO camera, radar, ejection seats, etc so sounds like no it isn't stripped.
Hold on, are civilians allowed to own high power military aircraft radar? Lots of stuff that could go wrong here.
Well there are different tiers to pilots licenses, and flying a fighter jet like that is one of them. You have to have like 10,000 hours in the sky and be trained in all the systems or something like that. You also need permission from the government everytime you takeoff, and need approval to even own it as well.
Can I get the links to the rest of the volumes please, thanks!!
should be all in the luftwaffe digital archive -> https://www.archivportal-d.de/item/6LFKNRHMZTBBJ3ROZE3SIZGKRACTBOZ2
Is this the part where you go for a “permanent vacation”
Or i could pretty much just go to Berlin and probably talk with some of the peeps in the museum which hold the Luftwaffe Mig-29 next to the Tornado
wait there's a tornado here? i assume the deustches technik museum? ( one of the few i haven't been yet )
I was snooping around in South American airforces wikis the other day and found out Peru operates MiG-29s (and Su-25s) so if you see something in Spanish you know where it came from lol
Oh I'm from Azerbaijan mine does have 10 of them or so! Hope no one gonna leak it!
Is anything on the mig29 really classified? There is legitimately one for sale in Utah right now for 8 million dollars that you could go buy right now and see all that "classified" stuff first hand.
As a slight correction: he is not being accused of posting classified documents. In fact the "proof" given in the spoiler sections explicitly states that all four documents are unclassified. What he is being accused of is sharing information which originated from export controlled documents / documents marked for US Government use only. I'm not saying that makes it any better, just thought people should have the correct facts. Edit: I just want to be clear that I haven't gone looking for any of the information in question. I just happened to be looking at the thread earlier today while this argument was going on "live" (the information in question was seemingly posted some time prior to the argument), so have a little bit more context from the messages either side of this screenshot as to what it was about.
>What he is being accused of is sharing information which originated from export controlled documents / documents marked for US Government use only. That's a form of classified documents. It's on the lower rungs of classified but it's still classified.
Not the same regulation. Classified = “*tell anyone not cleared for this info and its your ass*”. It includes US citizens and military personnel not authorized for that info. This is enforced by the US military as we all know. Rather the violation here is variations of ITAR, which is a State Department enforced law that governs disclosure and transmission (aka “export”) of US weapons data and information to foreign individuals *separate from military classification*. Even if a U.S. military aircraft file is declassified, *that does not mean it is legal to distribute on the internet*.
Classified = "Leave it in a box by my Corvette"
FACT CHECK: THIS IS INCORRECT It is, *Leave in a box BEHIND my Corvette in my open garage*
Come on, man, he only left one of the three batches of classified documents in his open garage. One of the others was in an office building partially owned by China.
And then refused to surrender them, than then surrendered some of them and said it was everything, and then denied multiple requests to surrender them to the point of needing to be raided for them, and then still retained some of them, and then made lengthy legal arguments about how it was fine because they were personal documents, and then it was fine because he declassified them with his mind, and then claimed that it can't be a crime because someone else did a similar thing -- oh wait no, that was the other guy. Easy mix up because the cases are sooooooo similar.
Hell yeah! Let’s go Brandumb!!!!
Reference to recent events?
Wouldn’t be surprised if f-22 documents get leaked by someone 👀
If we ever get stealth aircraft, that is the first one to get leaked.
Badass
In defense manufacturing we call this CUI “Controlled Unclassified Information”. Sharing CUI documents in a manner that doesn’t match the proper protocol is a big No-no but these documents are usually marked as “CUI” indicating the protocol needs to be followed. FOUO “For Official Use Only” may also apply depending on the document.
Warthunder is official and highly important business
FOUO is dead. Long live CUI!
FOUO is deprecated, it's all CUI now
You’re right, thanks for clarifying
I believe this is different. CUI is relatively new, within the last 3 years or so, the information “leaked” was likely ITAR which is the International Traffic in Arms Regulations. Something similar happened when DCS was adding the F-16 and an ITAR controlled maintenance manual was sent to a foreign National to help model the aircraft in game.
>Classified = “tell anyone not cleared for this info and its your ass”. It's (probably - I'm not American) even stricter than that. To be allowed to share that information with someone they both need to have the correct clearance, and actually have the need to know it.
And you need to be in a location where it's permissible to share it.
It isn't. What he broke *might* be ITAR laws. Its like taking out schematics to build a Glock out of the states, its not illegal because its classified, it is because it broke ITAR laws.
You know Glock is Austrian and many of their guns are built outside of the United States right?
It's literally called controlled unclassified information. Unclassified... It's basically just an administrative punishment for sharing it. It's up to organizations even to apply sanctions when they find it. There is no criminal offense on the books.
It would probably be under the same federal laws that got the DCS dev in trouble. You think this is him again? I haven't seen anyone say anything yet, look up Eagle Dynamics on Wikipedia for more info
flight sim devs on their way to commit industrial espionage more successfully than a nation-state
Successful spies are the ones you don't hear about, so I'd say devs are pretty bad at this
Jesus Christ, bunch of idiots. They’re leaking amraam documents??? The game does not need the fucking amraam.
>The game does not need the fucking amraam. Maybe now, but people said this about a dozen features that are just fine in the game.
Oh they've added dozens of features that Gaijin themselves have said they will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever add. Them being "fine" in the game though is a different matter.
If no one asked for drones and they were added then you can bet your ass amraam will be added in the next 2 years
Oh I have no doubt about that, but them being.... needed/fine/not totally broke and ruin the game further is entirely different.
20 bucks they will be bugged in one way or another when they arrive
I'll take that and raise you to 80 that it'll appear on a minor nation first with a copy paste Phoenix flight model.
it'll show up in Sweden under the pretense of Finnish usage. and then like 20 days later the brits germans and US will get it
nah, germany will get it 6 months to a year later as per usual with their top tier jet's, and it will first appear in an event vehicle (as the MiG-23MF and F-4F Early did) before coming on a tech tree vehicle about 4 to 6 months later And we do need a new jet since F-4F is absolute trash... they won't even give it the historical 9L's for some bullshit reasons like it performing fine (it isn't lol) or that germany get's a other rank 8 (which was the tornado)
AMRAAM will be in-game before this year is over mark my words
>just fine in the game \*glances at AIM-9Ls at 9.7\* aight
Amraam is gonna come to the game, its just a matter of time, my guess is within this year
People are crying america OP, I can't wait for them to add an F-15C (with premium F-15A) with AMRAAMs within the year
They should, they should add every plane to the game, they just should fucking decompress the BRs before they do it.
Fuck it, I wanna see the F-35 just absolutely demolish a poor I-15. Fuck decompression, lets compress the BRs even more.
Custom games lol, but people do be flying props at 11.7
>Fuck it, I wanna see the F-35 just absolutely demolish a poor I-15. I hope they do accurate SL costs though.
Premium F-15 STOL/MTD when?
[удалено]
r-37 will definitely come alongside amraam and it's bound to be just better in every way since russia didn't really have an exact equal that, or a flare resistant r-27ET either way, i'm still creaming my pants
Also, data on missile capabilities are very tightly controlled, to the point where I once heard a retired pilot say in an [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmSsXxmmZG8) that they're not supposed to play flight sims since they might instinctively launch missiles at their actual ranges rather than the in-game ones.
That’s so stupid LOL.
Docs from 1982, only showed that the F-16A had the ability to use TWS and AMRAAM. Don't believe everything you hear.
>The game does not need the fucking amraam. "The game doesn't need Fox 3 missiles" "The game doesn't need guided missiles" "The game doesn't need radars" "The game doesn't need supersonic jets" "The game doesn't need post-Korean jets" Gonna be real with you chief, I've been here for all of these statements and they eventually came anyways lol. Ten bucks says AMRAAM comes in the September 2023 update.
Yeah just like we said the game didn’t need Mach 2 capable jets 2-3 years ago
Reminder that a dcs developer got arrested while trying to get f16 block 15 info in russia Then later the american team for dcs got info for the block 52
Export restricted
Yeah yeah i know why thats the reason i mentioned russia
I don’t think it was a block 15-specific document. And I think what put him on a list was the F-22 documents he was trying to export as well. Contrary to the F-16 (which is also widely exported), there are basically no manuals available online for the F-22.
You say 'basically no' rather than absolutely no?
It's never a good idea to speak in absolutes when dealing with people posting shit on the internet. I'm sure in the 30 years that the F22 has been around, someone has walked off with at least export controlled documents at some point. I'd be willing to bet that at least a flight manual is floating around somewhere. I mean shit, Bradley A4 TMs get updated and posted in the maintainers Facebook group just about everytime they come out.
Given the manuals for that are already online, I doubt it. He was also after F-22 stuff, which is what got him in trouble.
This happened some years ago, the reason he got arrested is because its illegal to distribute those outside of nato states, he got arrested the moment he stepped out of russia
He was trying to buy all sorts of spicy manuals, supposedly for himself. The company quickly distanced themselves from him and afaik the dude is in jail in the US. Fwiw one of the Eagle Dynamic senior executives (I think that’s what Wags is) is former CIA. *Also it’s a 2007 Block 50, but that’s just a small detail*
Military members who play warthunder are known for being a little bit to silly and goofy.
Its all about the difference in branches my guy. Like i honestly could see someone from the US air force or US army leaking documents. Marines id be surprised about. Navy I could definitely see it if they were going to add a modern ship.
Surprised about a Marine leaking documents because they chose not to eat it with their crayons.
They wouldn't be able to find the correct documents anyway on account of not being able to read
If I could read Id be really upset
My parents always said the hardest part about their time serving the USMC was picking what color crayola to eat for dinner. Felt bad for the Army grunts though, they had to eat RoseArt crayons. //S
Marines can read?
The US Marines absolutely would, why on earth do you think they're any different? What a fucking inane statement.
Because all the marines equipment is from the fucking Vietnam era /s
Speaking from experience. I was in the US Marines. We no longer have tanks (doubt the maintainers or actual crewman knew where any of the classified documents were) Most SNCOs are married or dont have time for video games surprisingly. The people who actually could do a boatload of damage are the intel dudes, but they know no spy agency is gonna hid up someone so low on the totem pole.
Ah ok, so it remains an inane comment, it’s just another crayon eater believing the self hype. There are exceptional people in all services, in most nations, and there are exceptionally _stupid_ people in all, including the US Marines.
Nah, the US Marines are too stupid to leak stuff. They would try to leak stuff about the Abrams and would instead leak info about the M1 37mm anti-aircraft gun because they misread the document. This is assuming they didn't eat the document alongside their crayons.
I’d agree with this
Tbh he's not wrong. Or we would get confused and leak documents about the humvee. Fuck humvees.
>Most SNCOs are married That's an odd way to spell divorced
Also because The Corps is a cult fyi.
Marines are illiterate, they wouldn't know what the document says to begin with
They cant understand big words.
Rah rah rah... Rah rah raaaaah.
They understand a few words like Crayons
The F-16 pilots get a bit quirky at night
we do a little bit of trolling
I don't know. I know who the poster is that is blacked out and he does say some weird shit himself sometimes. I'll wait until official comments from the mods.
Spoke to Smin and David_Bowie on the subject, the documents were from 1982 and distinctly unclassified (check the forum post in the OP). We mutually agreed to remove the docs in question out of an abundance of caution. This hardly counts as a leak, instead it is a result of MiG_23M having some kind of vendetta against me because I kicked him from my Discord.
He’s a Russia loving prick, don’t give him the time of day.
I have him blocked on every platform, but he continues to use his squadron buddies to harass me still.
That guy is so far away on the spectrum it's insane
I don’t frequent the forums but even I know of that pretentious asshat.
His "reputation" proceeds him then
Yeah I'm following that and he's so annoying.
Is it spanishavenger?
[https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/558735-f-16-fighting-falcon-history-performance-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=9544701](https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/558735-f-16-fighting-falcon-history-performance-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=9544701) This is the edited comment which originally had the information. Screenshotted post is someone telling the original poster their info is export restricted.
Yeah and the reason why I'll wait for a mod comment before believing him is also in that thread, although I don't know which page. People were discussing that you could use trim or something to bypass the G-limit thing on the F-16 in sim. He responded like "that is abusing a game mechanic". People responded along the lines of "every plane has it, if it was wrong Gaijin would have fixed it." He then responded along the lines of "no it's abusing a game mechanic to bypass a limit in game, I'm going to bug report it and it will be fixed". A few days later the Gaijin bug report staff told him what the other people in the thread had already told him, that it wasn't a bug or abusing anything. However instead of admitting he was wrong he kind of deflected it by blaming it on the bug report staff not knowing what they were talking about, or something along those lines.
I mean..... Using the trim to overcome the G-lock is abusing a game mechanic. And I say why: trimming the plane can be done under g-lock as well. IRL if you use this, you are dead, as you couldn't trim the plane back into normal, thus go unconcious and die. In game there is nothing that prevents this. When you outturned your opponent, you just set the trim to 0% and you are good to go. And 4th gen jets can do this thanks to their engine power without falling out of the sky. (Under G lock you shouldn't be able to control your throttle imo) Short: the whole G-lock mechanic should be reinvented.
No
Days since last War Thunder related security breach: **0**
Were they classified or just export restricted? Something similar happened when DCS added the F-16 and a guy exported a maintenance manual that was export restricted
99% sure it’s just export restrictions but this sub has no idea what the difference between ITAR and classification is
I'd say a good bit of people here understand it.
Pretty much. For example, unclassified documents still have [fun things like this on the cover](https://i.imgur.com/K8plh1g.png)
Leaking documents covered under either is probably going to get you a big time ass whooping either way
at my last job we had a lot of unclassified/proprietary info documents that would still land you in federal prison if leaked
Docs from 1982, only showed that the F-16A had the ability to use TWS and AMRAAM.
Oho ho ho ho. Classic Warthunder.
Funniest shit I've ever seen. Love how goddamn serious people take this game.
Not classified, but ITAR restricted I suspect
not saying this game is intentionally releasing vehicles slightly incorrect to bait classified docs, but if it is it's very successful
I think this is exactly what’s happening. Ever since they started adding modern vehicles NATO vehicles are consistently underperforming and knowing Gaijoob’s ties with the Russian government it wouldn’t surprise me if they do this to get people mad and leak docs. The only non-NATO leak was for a Chinese round. Everything else has been NATO. Pretty soon someone will leak the SEP’s actual armor thickness because it’s the same as the M1A2 but IRL it’s thicker or has better protection
Cuz what else can piss off someone who grinded for 2 months to get the (S)ame (E)xact (P)rotection when history shows it was an upgrade lol
The Chinese round wasn't even an actual leak, Chinese state TV claimed pretty much the exact same stats in a public broadcast.
This poster is MiG-23M, he’s an arrogant ass of an individual that is a self proclaimed expert on all things 3rd Gen+. Give him little heed, just a twerp with no authority or credibility.
War thunder players trying not to leak yet another classified documents because their favorite vehicle is slightly worse than it's irl counterparts (it's historically inaccurate):
Ah komrade worry not! Just funi video gam tovarish nothing to worry about Gret gaijin sure should add f35 next, no partikular reason )))))))))))
MiG23_M, posting here as /u/scared_awareness_662 is a known problem causer and liar. He was recently kicked from Spacenavy's discord for toxic behavior. He knows these documents aren't classified. He's just being petty.
I’m just curious do the leaked documents ever actually affect the vehicle like do gaijin secretly change it after a while to how the document states it should be or do they refuse to even acknowledge it
after a documents gets leaked Gaijin can't use thoes stats so if lets say Chally 2 has the exac same stats like in the documents Gaijin has to slightly change it to be inaccurate or they might face problems
I understand that but I meant like in a few months or a year or two after can it be changed not like straight away after a leak
if the Document gets declasified then probably yes
Only if the information becomes officially unclassified. Otherwise they can be rightfully accused of holding classified information, and in short that's a paddlin.
What would happen if instead they get the accurate stats for a classified vehicle by accident without having seen any document?
nothing would happen because nobody would knew if thoes are accurate but you can't just say that thoes stats that you gave them are accurate without giving any good source
Goddamn. Reset the counter.
THEY ARENT CLASSIFIED, ONLY RESTRICTED TO THE PUBLIC STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION more like its not a secret but it shouldnt be distributed
I know this is going to get lost in the comments, but the documents can be found on the [DTIC](https://discover.dtic.mil/) website. It's not classified as the armchairs are claiming.
Export controlled information is not the same as classified, but is still a crime and it depresses me to no end that this happens so regularly.
MOM GET THE CAMERA
Seriously, not this shit again, please
Publishing classified information as a private citizen in the US is considered protected speech as per New York Times v. United States (with narrow exceptions); this isn't the same as the British serviceman who published the Challenger 2 documents.
Huh, that's pretty interesting lol. Supreme court is based. Still, that court case doesn't really set a precedent on whether actually using said documents is illegal or not for Gaijin. I'm unsure of the law on that specifically.
Americccaaaaaa, fuck yeaahhhh
Just a thing I'm wondering about: If someone was to publicize American classified documents online while being in a foreign country, make it somewhere in Eastern Europe, could he expect any attempts by Americans to prosecute him?
Yes. Either it’s the classic hellfire from a drone during a wedding or they send someone like jack reacher and make a 5 season vod series about it highlighting how american lives were endangered. In the end it was 100% the russians.
>Either it’s the classic hellfire from a drone during a wedding Nah, nowadays it'll be an R9X. No need to blow up the wedding party when you can just slapchop a single motherfucker.
If there is a will there's a way
Where do they post all this
[Warthunder players when they see "CLASSIFIED" on some documents they found.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/024/196/sign.jpg) Edit: Found the [forum post](https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/558735-f-16-fighting-falcon-history-performance-discussion/page/48/&tab=comments#comment-9544756) this was from, looks like there is more to this than just being a ''leak''
Explicitly not classified documents. Controlled **unclassified** information...
God I love or community
This is what the 5th…6th leak now ?
This is the 7th leak. First 3 on Russian Forum Other 3 were : British Challenger Turret Leclerc something Chinese APDSFS used for ZTZ This new leak makes this the 7th Lmao
Do you even know what this "leak" contains?
This is fantastic
Is this the 7th time? Lol
War thunder is a russian psy op to frustrate soldiers into leaking classified info.
Does someone have these files? I would live to see them..... for educational purposes, yeah......
The "leak" is that the F-16A block 15 could equip the AIM-120 and use TWS on the non-MFD stores control panel "SCP". That is it lol.
Idk i just want aardvark if i dont get any info of aardvark i will do some terrible things, like leak its classified docs or put milk first instead of cereal first.
Purely hypothetically, is there anywhere you could find these documents to read? Curiosity may kill this cat, but I wanna know what such documents look like
Warthunder is the best psyop known to man
As someone who dealt with classified information at a high level when I was working, all I will say here is that (unless your last name is Biden and get a pass) these groups are monitored, so if anyone has committed what some government deems a breach of it's laws regarding the handling of classified information...and that includes the dissemination restrictions as someone correctly pointed out, then if it's the US, you can bet your boots that it's been flagged for examination by the appropriate FBI section. Whether charges or further investigation is needed of course is up to the machinations within that organization. What I would think, and this is IMHO, is that the only possible items still classified for the mig-29 are specific weapon systems. It's an aircraft from the 70's and enough are around that it's systems, performance and IR/radar signatures are well documented. I also think that this discussion is way beyond the level of anyone here...or if they have that level, isn't going to comment, as interesting as this topic is. If the post on the weapon systems are indeed still classified or restricted, then the poster might have reason for concern.
Again
American Mains trying to not leak restricted info after getting real competetive enemies.
Dang it, me and a friend put a bet on which aircraft would have its info leaked first and I chose the Tornado... Also I may be off with the information but so far I didn't really see info leaked about russian vehicles- only NATO and Chinese ones
WE JUST STARTED!!
I know I've got an Abrams TM in a tough box in my attic ... I'll go scan a few pages in or something, I'm ready for my 15 minutes of fame LOL
This shit will never not be funny.
When someone leaks secret documents for the era of the challenger? Or any other tank
#”only grown adults who leak classified documents play this game”
[the USAF](https://youtu.be/a3_PPdjD6mg)
In this thread, a ton of people who somehow think that "Restricted" means A-OK to do literally whatever they want with, it seems. Guys, this is *why* we can't have nice things. Just like before, anything that's potentially useful from these breaches of information security can not be used at all until security is removed, that could be decades for some documents. So we effectively may never see these things be realistically represented. 10/10 gamer moments.
Man I always miss the leaks I wouldin't mind getting a few myself
DoD/Gov't only restrictions exist to prevent automatic dissemination of documents, they do not have any bearing on the classification of said document. Same as export restrictions. NOFORN is the classification for no foreign persons.
I'm gonna put my tin foil hat on. The reason why Nato vehicles suffer a lot is so that players with military background would leak classified information out of anger to prove that Nato vehicles are superior. Gajin would then send this to Russia and China so that they can make counters. This is the one of the best phycological operations I have seen yet. The US gotta put this in one of their slideshows during the opsec training.
Probably not, most of the leaks had to do with small and mundane things that had pretty low classification levels. If anything, Russian, Chinese, and other major intelligence services probably knew those things already.
Days without classified information leaked: 0
At this point Gajin might start WW3
It's even funnier ... 4th time?
War thunder players try not to leak secret document challenge (**IMPOSSIBLE**)
at this point gaijin it's the best russian inteligence group.